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View Full Version : What's the Latest with Commutair?


rswitz
04-19-2018, 07:06 PM
I've got a June 14th class date. Gonna be commuting from DEN-EWR. I know its gonna suck but I'll manage. Anything positive at C5 happening? I need something to look forward to cuz all I've been hearing is complaints and negative stuff. Somebody please tell me something good. Thanks!


Paid2fly
04-19-2018, 07:39 PM
I've got a June 14th class date. Gonna be commuting from DEN-EWR. I know its gonna suck but I'll manage. Anything positive at C5 happening? I need something to look forward to cuz all I've been hearing is complaints and negative stuff. Somebody please tell me something good. Thanks!



:confused:;)







Hmm, let's see...

"Mary had a little lamb".

Comstsa
04-19-2018, 09:07 PM
Try not to put too much weight into what you read on the forums. People are usually quick to post the bad things and exaggerate. On the other hand, people usually donít come on here to rave about the good things. But here are a few good things: Weíve added aircraft # 24 and 25 within the last month and I believe I saw that #26 is going through conformity. This is after 5 or 6 months of stagnation. If we can keep adding 2 aircraft a month, everyone here now, or those like yourself who will be here soon, will be in good shape. Adding aircraft depends on adding pilots though. From what I hear, the class sizes have been decent. But I think the problem is 25-30 new hires are listed per class, 15-20 actually show up, and then 10-15 actually make it through training. I believe the reason for the pass rate is more to do with the quality of the new hire rather than the difficulty of the training. Iíve heard that the percentage of those who make it into the Career Path Program has increased a good bit to around 50%. Everyoneís WAG was around 20% a year or so ago. Also, the company has shown that theyíre willing to release guys in the CPP to United, even when it hurt to lose those guys and the company had the contractual right to hold them back. That was a concern at the end of last year, but it appears that theyíre willing to make that sacrifice for whatever reason (probably to avoid the negative publicity and damage to recruiting if they chose to keep people back). IF you make it into the CPP youíre looking at around 3 years to United as opposed to 5 or more at the other places w CPP. I know a EWR FO who finished training (IOE) in January and has a line already. Reserve sucks, but hopefully youíll only have to deal w it a few months. Weíve run upgrade classes of 8-10 for 3 months straight and word is theyíll continue. I also think that there is a good chance that the most junior award for upgrade will go to someone who has only been here 6 months. If not this class, more than likely the next. Itís also good to see our performance in the top half of the pack for the last few months after being dead last for about a year. Donít let your commute worry you too much. The commuter clause is pretty sweet. As long as you give yourself two options, your covered... no questions asked. I think Iíve used it about 5 times over 2 years and no one has even called to verify that I gave myself two options. So hopefully this will give you something to hang on to. It is a regional though and your main goal should be to get in and get out as quickly as possible. Thatís just the nature of the beast. Also, the people here are awesome, so that helps a little. Good luck. Hope you make it to class first of all. And also hope you make it through class.


rswitz
04-20-2018, 05:12 AM
Try not to put too much weight into what you read on the forums. People are usually quick to post the bad things and exaggerate. On the other hand, people usually donít come on here to rave about the good things. But here are a few good things: Weíve added aircraft # 24 and 25 within the last month and I believe I saw that #26 is going through conformity. This is after 5 or 6 months of stagnation. If we can keep adding 2 aircraft a month, everyone here now, or those like yourself who will be here soon, will be in good shape. Adding aircraft depends on adding pilots though. From what I hear, the class sizes have been decent. But I think the problem is 25-30 new hires are listed per class, 15-20 actually show up, and then 10-15 actually make it through training. I believe the reason for the pass rate is more to do with the quality of the new hire rather than the difficulty of the training. Iíve heard that the percentage of those who make it into the Career Path Program has increased a good bit to around 50%. Everyoneís WAG was around 20% a year or so ago. Also, the company has shown that theyíre willing to release guys in the CPP to United, even when it hurt to lose those guys and the company had the contractual right to hold them back. That was a concern at the end of last year, but it appears that theyíre willing to make that sacrifice for whatever reason (probably to avoid the negative publicity and damage to recruiting if they chose to keep people back). IF you make it into the CPP youíre looking at around 3 years to United as opposed to 5 or more at the other places w CPP. I know a EWR FO who finished training (IOE) in January and has a line already. Reserve sucks, but hopefully youíll only have to deal w it a few months. Weíve run upgrade classes of 8-10 for 3 months straight and word is theyíll continue. I also think that there is a good chance that the most junior award for upgrade will go to someone who has only been here 6 months. If not this class, more than likely the next. Itís also good to see our performance in the top half of the pack for the last few months after being dead last for about a year. Donít let your commute worry you too much. The commuter clause is pretty sweet. As long as you give yourself two options, your covered... no questions asked. I think Iíve used it about 5 times over 2 years and no one has even called to verify that I gave myself two options. So hopefully this will give you something to hang on to. It is a regional though and your main goal should be to get in and get out as quickly as possible. Thatís just the nature of the beast. Also, the people here are awesome, so that helps a little. Good luck. Hope you make it to class first of all. And also hope you make it through class.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I'm definitely looking forward to starting class. Is there anything more you can tell me about the training/quality of instructors and checkrides?

NeoPilott
04-20-2018, 05:43 AM
Two of my good friends who work here seem to enjoy it. Both are captains, both live in base, both moving on to bigger carriers this summer after 3 years at C5 (they interviewed with United at the time CPP pass rate was low). I am starting class in July.

NeoPilott
04-20-2018, 08:45 AM
Also, Hogan exam was a breathe and all passed. Anyone has insights on CPP interview with United? What to study etc.

MGMTiswatchingU
04-24-2018, 06:23 AM
Also, Hogan exam was a breathe and all passed. Anyone has insights on CPP interview with United? What to study etc.

Cage Consulting is what I heard the pilots are using. Check the website.

flyguy727
04-24-2018, 06:38 AM
Cage Consulting is what I heard the pilots are using. Check the website.

There is a guy in Lafayette, Keith, I forget his last name. He flies for express jet, he has a company that administrators those psychological test. I'll try to get his number and post it here. Could be a good source to get insight. I know people that have passed n that have failed.

Alexey
05-16-2018, 01:17 PM
Hi, I also was concerned after reading all the complaints, but decided to go with them anyway. Now I'm going through the systems and like it so far, all the instructors and management people I've met were great. So I think the bad stuff on the web is not quite accurate if at all. Feel free to pm me with any questions.

b738pilot
05-23-2018, 12:27 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?

v1valarob
05-23-2018, 01:22 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?

Heres the latest actual info:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/2596768-post347.html

Most recent upgrade award was hired in April of 2017.

hslightnin
05-23-2018, 01:23 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?

Its not quite Street captain, but it will be this summer if we can fill the right seat.

I would give it a shot, and if you don't make it into the CPP first time around, quit and goto Piedmont for the DEC spot.

Hou757
05-23-2018, 01:23 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?


Look at an American Airlines regional. Much quicker route to a major! PSA, Envoy or Piedmont.

marshal
05-23-2018, 01:45 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?

There is lots of growth happening here. (Which is great for seniority, but creates some logistical issues.) Scheduled to get another plane in June. Upgrade time is going to fall quickly in the upcoming months from many have said and projected. I was able to take the Hogan before Indoc so I knew I had passed that part before I started which gave me peace of mind about the process. There has been someone who completed the whole CPP right at 2 years. As long as United keeps having classes, the CPP keeps moving qualified pilots through.

I looked at an AA WO before coming here and from what I gathered it would be at least 7 years before you would flow. The five year time difference was not worth the guarantee flow to me.

b738pilot
05-23-2018, 02:23 PM
It's a tough choice, I keep hearing the only way into the majors (UAL AAL DAL) is through a regional. I did hear the same thing about the Envoy PSA Piedmont flow and know a few people there, Envoy has people that have been there for 15 years that are just flowing now.

PotatoChip
05-23-2018, 09:12 PM
Hey guys, considering leaving a charter 737 airline (very slow upgrades, not much movement, and not many moving to the majors from here) for Commutair because of the easy path to United and the advertisements of a quick upgrade to captain (and the operation from what I see looks very professional upfront). My overall goal is to get into a major, like most of us here, and I do miss the regional lifestyle.

Is it worth it? How accurate is it when they say "if you have prior 121 time you will upgrade fast", how fast is fast, and are people going to United after they hit their 1000 PIC? Basically, is it a sales pitch or is it legit?

Itís all marketing lies and best case scenario situations. Upgrade times have swung wildly depending on how many FOs have left for other regional airlines. Keep in mind that the CPP is ONLY a guaranteed Hogan test and nothing more. Itís not a flow to United in any way. And further, United can nix it. There is no ďeasy path to UnitedĒ.

I left a decent paying Boeing job due to many factors, including a slow upgrade, for CommutAir and hugely regret it. I left that clown show as soon as my one year was up. And no, I do not feel bad calling it a clown show. Iíve never seen such bad operations, Scheduling, dispatch, etc. The operation is FAR from professional. Iíve worked at many airlines and it is by far the least professional Iíve ever seen. Instructors wear jeans, sneakers and un-ironed shirts. Check airman wear wrinkled shirts and North Face jackets. People just donít care and literally take pride in looking bad.

If you want to leave for a regional, go to a guaranteed AA wholly owned or a reputable airline like SkyWest or Endeavor. Feel free to PM me.

Then again, you MIGHT hit it lucky and be okay. But realize a year ago they were promising 3 aircraft/month, and ended up adding three in an entire year.

PotatoChip
05-23-2018, 09:13 PM
There is lots of growth happening here. (Which is great for seniority, but creates some logistical issues.) Scheduled to get another plane in June. Upgrade time is going to fall quickly in the upcoming months from many have said and projected. I was able to take the Hogan before Indoc so I knew I had passed that part before I started which gave me peace of mind about the process. There has been someone who completed the whole CPP right at 2 years. As long as United keeps having classes, the CPP keeps moving qualified pilots through.

I looked at an AA WO before coming here and from what I gathered it would be at least 7 years before you would flow. The five year time difference was not worth the guarantee flow to me.

Five year time difference? So you’re going to UA in two years or less? And the person you speak of was 2 years, 10 months. And they were an anomaly.

PotatoChip
05-23-2018, 09:17 PM
It's a tough choice, I keep hearing the only way into the majors (UAL AAL DAL) is through a regional. I did hear the same thing about the Envoy PSA Piedmont flow and know a few people there, Envoy has people that have been there for 15 years that are just flowing now.

Envoy flow will likely come down, but it is still relatively long.
AA is starting to hire more OTS pilots outside of flows. SWA, UPS, FedEx regularly hire non-regional types. The reason they hire more regional pilots is simply statistics, there ARE more regional pilots. If you have the competitive minimums and can stand out, you can be hired from a 91/135.

JediCheese
05-24-2018, 06:36 AM
Five year time difference? So youíre going to UA in two years or less? And the person you speak of was 2 years, 10 months. And they were an anomaly.

At least when you hate on the company, get it right. 2 years and 10 days, not 2 years and 10 months.

It's a calculated risk. Guaranteed flow at an AA WO or CPP/DGI? I think the AA flow is a great back pocket option, but it shouldn't be plan A. CPP/DGI can be a plan A, but shouldn't be a plan B. They're very different programs.

PotatoChip
05-24-2018, 06:45 AM
At least when you hate on the company, get it right. 2 years and 10 days, not 2 years and 10 months.

Youíre correct. Brain fart.
My apologies.

Boeing Aviator
05-24-2018, 06:45 AM
There is lots of growth happening here. (Which is great for seniority, but creates some logistical issues.) Scheduled to get another plane in June. Upgrade time is going to fall quickly in the upcoming months from many have said and projected. I was able to take the Hogan before Indoc so I knew I had passed that part before I started which gave me peace of mind about the process. There has been someone who completed the whole CPP right at 2 years. As long as United keeps having classes, the CPP keeps moving qualified pilots through.

I looked at an AA WO before coming here and from what I gathered it would be at least 7 years before you would flow. The five year time difference was not worth the guarantee flow to me.

Are you in Indoc now? If so I have a friend in your class. I'm a 757/767 CA at United. We've barely been hiring to cover retirements the last few years.

Some info that may have a significant effect on UAL hiring and the CPP.

UAL management has been advertising 4 to 6 percent growth for the next several years, but that doesn't directly translate to the same actual numbers of mainline pilot growth. We do have the potential for significant pilot growth in the future in addition to retirements.

We are currently negotiating a new CBA, UAL management and the union say they want a deal by the amendable date early next year. Traditionally, negotiations on a new CBA take at least 3 years and in some cases several more years.

However, our management is in a box and ALPA has some leverage. UAL management presently is under a lot of pressure from Wall Street and the financial community to show their growth plan is working and if they can successfully close the revenue and profitability gap with DAL and AA. United wants more 70/76 seaters as we have less then DAL and AA. A big reason United is behind DAL and AA profitability wise is we lag DAL by 130 & AA by 200 mainline narrowbodies. Although we have more widebodies then AA and DAL, domestic at present is the most profitable part of the business and we need more mainline narrowbodies and 70/76 seaters if we are to have a chance of being as profitable as DAL and AA.

Our scope clause prevents any more additional 70/76 seaters unless they buy 100 seaters for mainline. Since that would take years to come to fruition even if they ordered them today, United management needs a deal with ALPA.

My two cents. ALPA will not negotiate any scope concessions and if they did it would never be ratified by our pilots. They only way to get more 70/76 seaters at UAL (and fast) is for mainline pilots to fly them. So I’m looking for some type of outside the box industry changing agreement. If not, it mostly likely be a long and traditional negotiating cycle. Time will tell.

There also been numerous news reports of potential small narrowbody and widebody aircraft orders.

Anyway, welcome to the United family and best of luck at Commutair and the CPP. Hope to fly with you at United someday.

jacburn
05-24-2018, 08:53 AM
Iíve worked at many airlines
Kind of puts all your post in perspective.

Is the grass always greener on the other side for you?

RickGassko
05-24-2018, 10:00 AM
Envoy flow will likely come down, but it is still relatively long.
AA is starting to hire more OTS pilots outside of flows. SWA, UPS, FedEx regularly hire non-regional types. The reason they hire more regional pilots is simply statistics, there ARE more regional pilots. If you have the competitive minimums and can stand out, you can be hired from a 91/135.

I can at least confirm that for FedEx. I canít speak for the others, but my buddy starts class next month at FedEx. All part 91 BE-300 time. But he could sell a gun to Bernie Sanders. May be an outlier but itís definitely possible.

PotatoChip
05-24-2018, 10:11 AM
Kind of puts all your post in perspective.

Is the grass always greener on the other side for you?

Serious?

Bankruptcy. Furlough. Overseas in the lost decade. Downgrade.

I’ve never left a company just to leave. I’ve just tried to pay my mortgage and support my family.

Maybe you haven’t been introduced to how this industry can be. I hope for your sake you never are.

PhantomHawk
05-24-2018, 11:05 AM
Oddly, Jacburn left an airline for greener grass at C5. So I guess he knows what heís talking about, firsthand.

marshal
05-24-2018, 02:00 PM
Are you in Indoc now? If so I have a friend in your class. I'm a 757/767 CA at United. We've barely been hiring to cover retirements the last few years.

Some info that may have a significant effect on UAL hiring and the CPP.

UAL management has been advertising 4 to 6 percent growth for the next several years, but that doesn't directly translate to the same actual numbers of mainline pilot growth. We do have the potential for significant pilot growth in the future in addition to retirements.

We are currently negotiating a new CBA, UAL management and the union say they want a deal by the amendable date early next year. Traditionally, negotiations on a new CBA take at least 3 years and in some cases several more years.

However, our management is in a box and ALPA has some leverage. UAL management presently is under a lot of pressure from Wall Street and the financial community to show their growth plan is working and if they can successfully close the revenue and profitability gap with DAL and AA. United wants more 70/76 seaters as we have less then DAL and AA. A big reason United is behind DAL and AA profitability wise is we lag DAL by 130 & AA by 200 mainline narrowbodies. Although we have more widebodies then AA and DAL, domestic at present is the most profitable part of the business and we need more mainline narrowbodies and 70/76 seaters if we are to have a chance of being as profitable as DAL and AA.

Our scope clause prevents any more additional 70/76 seaters unless they buy 100 seaters for mainline. Since that would take years to come to fruition even if they ordered them today, United management needs a deal with ALPA.

My two cents. ALPA will not negotiate any scope concessions and if they did it would never be ratified by our pilots. They only way to get more 70/76 seaters at UAL (and fast) is for mainline pilots to fly them. So Iím looking for some type of outside the box industry changing agreement. If not, it mostly likely be a long and traditional negotiating cycle. Time will tell.

There also been numerous news reports of potential small narrowbody and widebody aircraft orders.

Anyway, welcome to the United family and best of luck at Commutair and the CPP. Hope to fly with you at United someday.

I am not currently in Indoc. I hope all of the growth plans come to pass for that will be better for everyone. Thanks for the update and and positive vibes, it is refreshing.

fenix1
05-24-2018, 11:27 PM
Not tracking on why CPP/DGI/similar shouldn't be a Plan B - care to elaborate on your thoughts there? Definitely agreed that AA flow should only be Plan B.

At least when you hate on the company, get it right. 2 years and 10 days, not 2 years and 10 months.

It's a calculated risk. Guaranteed flow at an AA WO or CPP/DGI? I think the AA flow is a great back pocket option, but it shouldn't be plan A. CPP/DGI can be a plan A, but shouldn't be a plan B. They're very different programs.

b738pilot
05-25-2018, 11:24 AM
A lot of these comments were indeed helpful. Overall goal is to get in United, but short term goal is to build 121 PIC (and I'd genuinely enjoy it too). The DEC at Piedmont and Envoy like a previous commentor said is basically 5 years on reserve while you wait for AAL at tough bases too like LGA. What appeals to Commutair is the "chance at UAL". I was eyeballing Endeavor too, but since this is a Commutair forum I'll keep the topic on Commutair. Thanks everyone for your comments.

jacburn
05-25-2018, 11:45 AM
Oddly, Jacburn left an airline for greener grass at C5. So I guess he knows what heís talking about, firsthand.

It is definitely greener here.

Flyhayes
05-25-2018, 12:34 PM
It is definitely greener here.

And the difference is that you're liked by the pilot group here, pringles not so much....

Hobbit64
05-25-2018, 02:15 PM
And the difference is that you're liked by the pilot group here, pringles not so much....

Jacburn is a great guy to fly with.

I miss flying with him. Always a great trip.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-25-2018, 06:40 PM
Everyone just disregard what hot Potato says...he was here when shyt had hit the fan and chip developed PTSD. I hope you see a psychiatrist Mr. Chip.

You left too soon. Things are much better here. Remember we have that LOA which allows you to come back within a year and keep your seniority number ;)

Edit: chip lurkes this forum to routinely try to confirm to himself that he made the right choice to leave. BUT....everytime he comes here he realize that it's just getting better. Potato, C5 had already hit rock bottom when you were here. We can only go up, and that's all that's been happening ever since you left.

PotatoChip
05-26-2018, 04:28 AM
Lol.
I got a $20,000+/year raise, more days off, no one year bonus contract, a guaranteed interview at Delta after 18 months, a full upgrade (not CQFO), I fly a better product, airplanes are actually delivered on achedule, and a much better CBA.
I don’t need to lurk this forum to confirm anything.
And I’ve met at least five other C5 pilots who have quit this year.

Come on over, folks.
But haters gonna hate.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-26-2018, 04:47 PM
Lol.
I got a $20,000+/year raise, more days off, no one year bonus contract, a guaranteed interview at Delta after 18 months, a full upgrade (not CQFO), I fly a better product, airplanes are actually delivered on achedule, and a much better CBA.
I donít need to lurk this forum to confirm anything.
And Iíve met at least five other C5 pilots who have quit this year.

Come on over, folks.
But haters gonna hate.

Then why are you still here? :D and if it's your silly excuse of keeping ppl updated about CommutAir......please! :rolleyes: you don't work here anymore. Cut the umbilical cord completely already.

You're like an old grandpa trying to stay hip :D

b738pilot
05-26-2018, 06:22 PM
All due respect, and I mean it, I do not intend to disrespect anyone in this forum, but I do agree, it's better to hear from those who are currently at Commutair that can help shed some light on seeing the truth about how things are there versus what they promise in the recruiting phase. From what I'm told is come to Commutair, upgrade while you're in FO training, pass the CPP, and 1000 hours as PIC at Commutair you're right in with United. I mean, that to me sounds like an awesome plan and reason enough to leave my current job. But I want to find out from actual Commutair pilots (not former pilots) what the reality is. I'm all for enjoying my time at Commutair and having some beers on layovers with the crew and enjoying the moment, but overall goal like most pilots is a major, and my major in mind is United and it seems Commutair is a great way to get into United.

DirkDiggler
05-26-2018, 06:26 PM
I think itís great to have a devilís advocate. Chip, keep up the good work. People need to stay informed of all facts, past or present.

We live in an society now where if thereís a narrative people donít want to hear, they try to squash or discredit it at all costs. The purpose of this forum is to share information. Keep sharing.

PotatoChip
05-26-2018, 06:53 PM
All due respect, and I mean it, I do not intend to disrespect anyone in this forum, but I do agree, it's better to hear from those who are currently at Commutair that can help shed some light on seeing the truth about how things are there versus what they promise in the recruiting phase. From what I'm told is come to Commutair, upgrade while you're in FO training, pass the CPP, and 1000 hours as PIC at Commutair you're right in with United. I mean, that to me sounds like an awesome plan and reason enough to leave my current job. But I want to find out from actual Commutair pilots (not former pilots) what the reality is. I'm all for enjoying my time at Commutair and having some beers on layovers with the crew and enjoying the moment, but overall goal like most pilots is a major, and my major in mind is United and it seems Commutair is a great way to get into United.

The problem is that the majority of posters on this forum are C5 cheerleaders either literally claiming to be involved in management or have Stolkholm Syndrome and have never worked at any other 121
airline. Why arenít there more dissidents?? Well, one of the two Designated Examiners went on a witch hunt to threaten an APC posters for ďnegative comments about the companyĒ.
One of the posters in this thread knows about that, as he was the one who started it. Good times at C5.

So no offense to you, but I believe people have a right to know how this company operates; even it if was all of 10 months ago. Youíre right. It ďsounds awesomeĒ. Good luck with that.

PotatoChip
05-26-2018, 06:54 PM
I think itís great to have a devilís advocate. Chip, keep up the good work. People need to stay informed of all facts, past or present.

We live in an society now where if thereís a narrative people donít want to hear, they try to squash or discredit it at all costs. The purpose of this forum is to share information. Keep sharing.

Thank. And youíre right.
Iím just the ďfake newsĒ guy over here....

Whoop
05-26-2018, 08:35 PM
I also always enjoyed flying with Jacburn! Glad he's part of the training department. Knew Chip, but didn't know him well and we had different personalities, so I mostly stayed away. Sincerely glad he's happier now at his new home.

Yes, CommutAir has had issues. Yes, it's a regional airline. Yes, everyone should be treated like they want to be treated. Does it always happen without exception at every regional, no. I still contend it is a great place if you need 121 time, want a quick upgrade and/or want to get your hours fast to be able to upgrade- regardless if you're interested in pursuing United.

c402fr8er
05-27-2018, 02:20 AM
It must be amazing to have the only valid viewpoint on anything and everything.


Does Commutair have its warts? Yes; so does every regional out there.

Yes, we still carry paper charts, yes reserve rules are horrible, and yes there are no real protections from being extended into a day off. And our training washout rate is pretty high right now.

Everybody's washout rate is high, because very few regionals can be picky in the interview, and would rather try to get people through then turn them away. Reserve rules are horrible, but as a new FO, you won't see it for very long, and if you're a 0 121 time FO, by the time that you upgrade, there will be enough people junior to you on the captain list, you won't ever see it as a captain. We have adequate reserve coverage now, and extensions into days off are exceedingly rare, almost always related to late turns not making connections (my last one was when a ground stop on the last day caused me to miss a deadhead back to base, and that was 5 months ago. I've been extended twice in my time here)



Staffing is improving, and upgrade times are dropping again; while the junior captain award was a 4/17 hire, there weren't a whole lot of people hired between 4/17 and 12/17, and even fewer that meet upgrade minimums, so expect that to drop again, FAST.

Provided we can hire enough FO's to backfill.

Come in, pass the Hogan, get off IOE, pass the United interview, and boom- all you have to do is bide your time, 2-3 years and you'll be at United. Or, come here, upgrade fast, prove yourself and get hired into the training department, put a few more stickers on your resume, and get called from Southwest/Jetblue/Delta.

Is it a place to come and hang your hat for 9-10 years? Hell no, if I'm here in another two years, I'd be seriously questioning my life choices. But its a great place to come in, build your resume, fly with some fun people, and move on from fast.

It is what you make of it; if you're the kind of negative personality that dwells on every single negative thing in their day, please, don't come here, I don't want to deal with your negativity for a 4 day trip, or while sitting out a groundstop in Newark. But if you can keep a positive attitude, and keep an eye on the long game, its not THAT bad of a place right now.


I guess this makes me a naive cheerleader suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

But, at least I still work here, and am not spending hours a day thrashing a former employer that I haven't worked at in close to a year to random internet strangers on my days off.

Seriously, some people need to move on with their lives.

jacburn
05-27-2018, 06:08 AM
Thank. And youíre right.
Iím just the ďfake newsĒ guy over here....
I donít consider you completely false, but I do consider you more like the printed version of the news paper.

ďOut of dateĒ

MGMTiswatchingU
05-27-2018, 10:45 AM
I think itís great to have a devilís advocate. Chip, keep up the good work. People need to stay informed of all facts, past or present.

We live in an society now where if thereís a narrative people donít want to hear, they try to squash or discredit it at all costs. The purpose of this forum is to share information. Keep sharing.

It's good to talk about how it was in the past, BUT when someone comes on here talking like he still works here, just because HE STILL HAS BUDDIES here who tells him what he wants to hear, and then spread inaccurate info it does not do justice for who wants the info.

If hot Potato wants to share how it was when he was here then do just that. Don't pull shyt out of your ass just because you have an agenda and speak as if you have the INSIDE SCOOP on what's going on on the line and in North Olmsted. (Not attacking you Dirk)

Potatochip can ONLY talk about the past. "When I was here....yadda yadda yadda", anything more than that is just inaccurate. Especially when he has an agenda. He makes himself inaccurate and outdated.

The purpose of this forum is to share accurate information. Keep sharing. Fixed it for ya Dirk.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-27-2018, 10:56 AM
But, at least I still work here, and am not spending hours a day thrashing a former employer that I haven't worked at in close to a year to random internet strangers on my days off.

Seriously, some people need to move on with their lives.

Exactly what I think too. Move on with your "greener pastures". Almost like you (chip) love stressing about the past. Pathetic.

DirkDiggler
05-28-2018, 08:26 AM
Everybodyís entitled to an opinion.

But the C5 guys should be applauding guys like Chip. Causing new hires to rethink their decision or avoid CommutAir all together. The more dire your staffing situation becomes, more money will ultimately (and eventually) have to flow to the pilots.

Let me give an example. I post an ad on Indeed for my business. Entry level position starting salary $40k. If I have 20 qualified candidates, thereís no reason to raise the pay for that position. I have 20 good people to choose from who will work for that salary.

Ornstein of Mesa said it best, ďAs long as I have applications on my desk, Iím paying my pilots too much.Ē

MGMTiswatchingU
05-28-2018, 10:48 AM
Everybodyís entitled to an opinion.

But the C5 guys should be applauding guys like Chip. Causing new hires to rethink their decision or avoid CommutAir all together. The more dire your staffing situation becomes, more money will ultimately (and eventually) have to flow to the pilots.

Let me give an example. I post an ad on Indeed for my business. Entry level position starting salary $40k. If I have 20 qualified candidates, thereís no reason to raise the pay for that position. I have 20 good people to choose from who will work for that salary.

Ornstein of Mesa said it best, ďAs long as I have applications on my desk, Iím paying my pilots too much.Ē

There is also a backside too, which Chip experienced first hand (hence his hatred). Less pilots, stagnant seniority, less upgrades, more extensions, poor QOL, miserable crew. Who does that favor? You can only make so much sacrifice until your family walks out on you. Potatochip is the BIG example of what will happen if we go back to those time. We have increased staffing a bit and things have improved since chip days. That's why chip cannot accurately speak to current times. When he comes on here sharing inaccurate info for people to not come, it only hurts the pilot group (his own friends) more. So applauding him? Hell no. There are other current commutair pilots on here that gives accurate info and they don't pretty it up. They give facts, current facts.

Even a username called V1 something (cant remember the rest), post valuable info about upgrades, aircraft addition etc. No one pretty shyt up. I am in management and I admit several times that shyt had hit the fan when chip was here.

I'll admit another thing, we learned to not bite off more than we can chew, hence the improvements since chip left. Now is not the time to be playing around in the regional just to get an extra raise. Do your time and move on to mainline, that's it. No one is inviting newhires to come live at CommutAir.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-28-2018, 10:58 AM
Everybodyís entitled to an opinion.

But the C5 guys should be applauding guys like Chip. Causing new hires to rethink their decision or avoid CommutAir all together. The more dire your staffing situation becomes, more money will ultimately (and eventually) have to flow to the pilots.



And I must say, this is a very narrow way of thinking.

DirkDiggler
05-28-2018, 11:11 AM
And I must say, this is a very narrow way of thinking.

Itís just business. Once youíre the one signing checks youíll understand.

PotatoChip
05-28-2018, 11:39 AM
Since I only post ďinaccurateĒ and ďout-of-dateĒ info, did C5 get a new contract? Can they no longer extend pilots at will? Do they actually regularly utilize short call reserve now? Do they have a stipulation to allow no junior-manning? Are they actually upgrading pilots ďonce they hit 1000 121 timeĒ? Do they have iPads yet? Do they no longer force line holders to sit ďconditionalĒ or ďcontractualĒ reserve when something cancels (or whatever new word they come up with to call it)?

The only thing out-of-date Iíve posted is the training timeframe.
Iíll wait to see if any of the above has changed.

I want people to have information other than that of recruiters. You want movement MGMT? Well, industry standard language contract rules would attract pilots. I refuse to go along with the notion of bringing people on board solely to better my position. Thatís selfish, Short-sided and hurts the entire industry. Iím sorry you canít see that.

Honestly, Iíll stop posting. Itís impossible to have a valid argument, which is unfortunate. If anyone wants MY information, you can PM me and Iíll happily provide it, but Iím not going to be involved in this any longer. Iím sure this will result many ďhooraysĒ and ďgood riddanceĒ, and I accept that, just like many also accept one of the worst ALPA contracts in existence, and say things like ďitís not so bad here.Ē
Best of luck.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-28-2018, 02:15 PM
Honestly, Iíll stop posting. Itís impossible to have a valid argument, which is unfortunate. If anyone wants MY information, you can PM me and Iíll happily provide it, but Iím not going to be involved in this any longer. Iím sure this will result many ďhooraysĒ and ďgood riddanceĒ, and I accept that, just like many also accept one of the worst ALPA contracts in existence, and say things like ďitís not so bad here.Ē
Best of luck.

Best news I have heard since 61 jets and sliced bread. Finally you can start your healing process. But I bet that won't last long.

I wish you well though.

MGMTiswatchingU
05-28-2018, 02:18 PM
Itís just business. Once youíre the one signing checks youíll understand.

At what cost are you, as a pilot, willing to sacrifice your precious time with your wife/daughter/son? (if you don't have any of that, cool. Just showing a point.)

JediCheese
05-28-2018, 03:52 PM
At what cost are you, as a pilot, willing to sacrifice your precious time with your wife/daughter/son? (if you don't have any of that, cool. Just showing a point.)
At the moment, 300%. But I rent my soul to the company for money and flight time.

turboprop87
05-28-2018, 04:33 PM
I was in a UAL class at 1100 PIC. I was lucky, sure. However, if things line up, it can happen.


Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

b738pilot
05-28-2018, 06:30 PM
Ya'll are still using paper jepps?

Bartender
05-28-2018, 06:46 PM
And I must say, this is a very narrow way of thinking.

Clearly you are management. Iím on the XJT side, and all managements really donít get it. Treating regional pilots as second class citizens has run itís course.

We arenít going to accept it anymore as the market has turned.

bamike
05-28-2018, 07:08 PM
Clearly you are management. Iím on the XJT side, and all managements really donít get it. Treating regional pilots as second class citizens has run itís course.

We arenít going to accept it anymore as the market has turned.

If youíre at XJT, why do you go to work everyday? Clearly Skywest doesnít give a crap about you guys, yet you still go to work and accept it. We all have bills to pay, and regional airline pilots are no exception. Given a choice between unemployment and flying an RJ for less than 30% of mainline pay, thousands of RJ pilots choose to accept flying for low pay. No reason why that will change.

The next economic recession will determine what pilots will accept. Take a look at the history of labor in America to see what people are willing to accept in a time of high unemployment. People are still going to work for regional carriers with lower pay rates, bad work rules, etc. Mesa fills its classes. Maybe the regionals will increase sign on bonuses and pay down student debt for cadets, but they still donít need to increase your pay, because management knows you will keep showing up to work.

jacburn
05-28-2018, 09:46 PM
Everybodyís entitled to an opinion.

But the C5 guys should be applauding guys like Chip. Causing new hires to rethink their decision or avoid CommutAir all together. The more dire your staffing situation becomes, more money will ultimately (and eventually) have to flow to the pilots.

Let me give an example. I post an ad on Indeed for my business. Entry level position starting salary $40k. If I have 20 qualified candidates, thereís no reason to raise the pay for that position. I have 20 good people to choose from who will work for that salary.

Ornstein of Mesa said it best, ďAs long as I have applications on my desk, Iím paying my pilots too much.Ē

Considering that you work for expressjet, I would think that you know what you just wrote is total bull. How many pilots have left XJT in the last couple of years? How much was the last pay raise that was voted in?

CBreezy
05-29-2018, 04:42 AM
There is also a backside too, which Chip experienced first hand (hence his hatred). Less pilots, stagnant seniority, less upgrades, more extensions, poor QOL, miserable crew. Who does that favor? You can only make so much sacrifice until your family walks out on you. Potatochip is the BIG example of what will happen if we go back to those time. We have increased staffing a bit and things have improved since chip days. That's why chip cannot accurately speak to current times. When he comes on here sharing inaccurate info for people to not come, it only hurts the pilot group (his own friends) more. So applauding him? Hell no. There are other current commutair pilots on here that gives accurate info and they don't pretty it up. They give facts, current facts.

Even a username called V1 something (cant remember the rest), post valuable info about upgrades, aircraft addition etc. No one pretty shyt up. I am in management and I admit several times that shyt had hit the fan when chip was here.

I'll admit another thing, we learned to not bite off more than we can chew, hence the improvements since chip left. Now is not the time to be playing around in the regional just to get an extra raise. Do your time and move on to mainline, that's it. No one is inviting newhires to come live at CommutAir.

So poor working conditions are the workers fault? Typical.

DirkDiggler
05-29-2018, 06:27 AM
Considering that you work for expressjet, I would think that you know what you just wrote is total bull. How many pilots have left XJT in the last couple of years? How much was the last pay raise that was voted in?

Pilots are a bunch of spineless pansies. I hold that belief firmly. You take a bunch of dorky guys who have never done anything in the real world put them in charge negotiating contracts. You donít see lawyers flying airplanes. They (the pilots) will get outsmarted and outplayed time and time again. Itís a pitiful thing when the majority of a group agrees to a pittance because ďitís a raise.Ē I tell everyone I can to stay away from XJT.

CBreezy
05-29-2018, 07:05 AM
Pilots are a bunch of spineless pansies. I hold that belief firmly. You take a bunch of dorky guys who have never done anything in the real world put them in charge negotiating contracts. You donít see lawyers flying airplanes. They (the pilots) will get outsmarted and outplayed time and time again. Itís a pitiful thing when the majority of a group agrees to a pittance because ďitís a raise.Ē I tell everyone I can to stay away from XJT.

Technically, there is at least one lawyer involved with contract negotiations.

b738pilot
05-29-2018, 07:26 AM
I ask again, are you guys seriously still using paper charts and having to update your jepps every cycle???

JediCheese
05-29-2018, 07:29 AM
I ask again, are you guys seriously still using paper charts and having to update your jepps every cycle???
No, we just use outdated charts and have given up on updates. /s

b738pilot
05-29-2018, 07:59 AM
You know what I meant. Is your sarcasm appreciated by your fellow crew?

Let me ask in a different way so the millennial snowflakes here don't have to find a safe space. Do you use Paper Charts or EFBs?

JediCheese
05-29-2018, 08:15 AM
You know what I meant. Is your sarcasm appreciated by your fellow crew?
Usually other crewmembers don't ask stupid questions so I don't have to break out my sarcasm. A simple search would provide an answer that was posted only 12 days ago in the Seniority / CPP / Aircraft - Info (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/commutair/110131-seniority-cpp-aircraft-info-35.html) thread (under the cons by FTN616). It's even on the last page...

Do you use Paper Charts or EFBs?
Paper.

b738pilot
05-29-2018, 08:19 AM
Your response definitely helped me decide (and not because of the paper charts). Grow up kid.

JediCheese
05-29-2018, 08:29 AM
Your response definitely helped me decide (and not because of the paper charts). Grow up kid.

Į\_(ツ)_/Į

If a random person on the internet being snarky determines your career path, I wish you luck!

b738pilot
05-29-2018, 08:57 AM
The most important part of any airline is the crew you fly with. A great crew can make it the best trip ever, the worst crew can make it a trip from hell when you start reconsidering becoming an air traffic controller. Judging from your response, it was a reminder of my regional days of what kind of crews are there (not all, but the know it all kids like yourself make up a lot of the pilot pools in the regionals), so yeah, based on that, from the "internet", that was easy to remind me to stay put where I'm at. No flashy upgrade or flow is worth sitting next to someone like you in the cockpit. On that note, I wish you the best and growth in your career as well.

MaxQ
05-29-2018, 10:12 AM
The most important part of any airline is the crew you fly with. A great crew can make it the best trip ever, the worst crew can make it a trip from hell when you start reconsidering becoming an air traffic controller. Judging from your response, it was a reminder of my regional days of what kind of crews are there (not all, but the know it all kids like yourself make up a lot of the pilot pools in the regionals), so yeah, based on that, from the "internet", that was easy to remind me to stay put where I'm at. No flashy upgrade or flow is worth sitting next to someone like you in the cockpit. On that note, I wish you the best and growth in your career as well.

b738
Hope you reconsider. If you enjoy the flying that you do now, and the people you fly with, most likely you would find it the same at C5 ( or anywhere else for that matter)

Most you would fly with are enjoyable to be around. When I came here I found that overall my previous experience was appreciated and I was treated with respect. That said, I still had much to learn about both a new(to me) airplane and a new airline. I think you will be surprised at the number of pilots here in their 40s,50s, and even 60s.
The quick upgrades attracted a number for whom the industry has not been kind.
regardless of your decision, best wishes

PosRateGearUp
05-29-2018, 12:47 PM
The most important part of any airline is the crew you fly with. A great crew can make it the best trip ever, the worst crew can make it a trip from hell when you start reconsidering becoming an air traffic controller. Judging from your response, it was a reminder of my regional days of what kind of crews are there (not all, but the know it all kids like yourself make up a lot of the pilot pools in the regionals), so yeah, based on that, from the "internet", that was easy to remind me to stay put where I'm at. No flashy upgrade or flow is worth sitting next to someone like you in the cockpit. On that note, I wish you the best and growth in your career as well.

I honestly question the decisions of a person who bases them on an exchange with one person in an internet forum. Not being snarky or sarcastic. There are plenty of great crews here, there are plenty of great crews anywhere. Your statement is as childish as the one that provoked it.

NeoPilott
05-30-2018, 03:20 AM
How hard will it be to get 1-2 day trips for someone living close to EWR? Are they popular at C5? I do understand majority are 3-4 day trips however I know there are quite a few 1-2 and 3 days which can be mixed with 3-4 days. Any info. will be much appreciated.

Freebreakfast11
05-30-2018, 04:15 AM
How hard will it be to get 1-2 day trips for someone living close to EWR? Are they popular at C5? I do understand majority are 3-4 day trips however I know there are quite a few 1-2 and 3 days which can be mixed with 3-4 days. Any info. will be much appreciated.
Last month, there were three 1-day, one 2-day, 11 3-day and 175 4-day trips in EWR. So, don't plan on anything but 4-days

jacburn
05-30-2018, 05:21 AM
b738pilot

I ask again, are you guys seriously still

You know what I meant. Is your sarcasm appreciated by your fellow crew?

Let me ask in a different way so the millennial snowflakes here don't have to find a safe space.

Grow up kid.

Wow. :eek: I think we just missed the bullet with this one.

v1valarob
05-30-2018, 05:23 AM
How hard will it be to get 1-2 day trips for someone living close to EWR? Are they popular at C5? I do understand majority are 3-4 day trips however I know there are quite a few 1-2 and 3 days which can be mixed with 3-4 days. Any info. will be much appreciated.

Quality of life is extremely important, but CommutAir is not the place to go if you want specific trips. This is the type of place where if you're able to bid and hold specific trips as a first officer then you're probably close to upgrade and will be back on reserve once you switch seats anyway. If you're senior enough as a Captain to bid and hold specific trips then you should probably update your apps or get some help from career counselors because at this point you should be getting calls from bigger and better places.

Don't read this as a knock on CommutAir. This place is meant to be a stepping stone to the ultimate goal that most have as an airline pilot. Do your time, don't go crazy, get your discount at the Desmond tavern, have some fun, don't get into trouble, move on.

And for b738pilot, the only thing you can actually count on at this airline are the damn good crew members we have. Even the very few *******s we have can be fun after you break the ice.

DirkDiggler
05-30-2018, 06:10 AM
No one views a regional as a permanent place to stay. But another 9/11 could happen, triple oil prices, war, anything really that can cause stagnation and zero movement. Then you get stuck. Itís foolish to use the stepping stone mentality to justify keeping a crap contract with crap QOL.

All regionals are stepping stones. May as well enjoy one with much better protections and QOL while putting your time in.

jacburn
05-30-2018, 08:17 AM
May as well enjoy one with much better protections and QOL while putting your time in.
My QOL is much better here at C5 than it was at XJT.

bamike
05-30-2018, 08:20 AM
My QOL is much better here at C5 than it was at XJT.

Is this because you don't commute? Isn't XJT supposed to have a good contract compared to C5?

Eugenelee1987
05-30-2018, 08:35 AM
In regard to upgrades, qol, training, commutair is improving from all the terribleness over the winter. Upgrades are happening quickly and if you have time youll upgrade within 3-6 months(at current rate of upgrades). Albeit you are junior so dont complain about reserve or trips. We are short everyone with all the planes coming in. I am a LCA and most of my FO students are getting lines right off training. Many have difficulty with training and some gripe about differences in teaching methods. That stems from having many offline instructors being hired and covering ground and sims. They come from other airlines and havent flown the line here. This happens at other airlines too so not unique to us. Our manuals are a work in progress. Nothing like having terrible manuals to start with. I, along with many other LCA have been asking and bringing up changes to clean up said manuals and procedures. Most LCA have time in type from other carriers ie XJT.

In short quick upgrades and lots of flying since shortage of pilots. Also incentives up to 200% some days. Id say most average 70-80 hrs of flying a month. Still having growing pains but you get faster progression because of inefficiencies. A streamlined regional wont offer jumps in career progression because everything is stable and movement is slower.

We are offering a big recruitment incentive so if you are interested ask a C5 pilot and split the reward on top of your own bonus!

Pm me if you have questions.

Eugene Lee.

jacburn
05-30-2018, 10:57 AM
Is this because you don't commute? Isn't XJT supposed to have a good contract compared to C5?

I do commute and that is the one big draw back for me at C5. It is a two leg commute.

The XJT contract was a great contract when it was made IN 2004. It is out of date and other airlines have moved the bar higher. When XJT was pushing for another concessionary contract vote, C5 was adding to theirs with paid airport parking at the location that you live at, 4 or 5 hotel rooms a month for commuters, and a pay increase.

I made more money on first year pay with the bonus and second year pay than I was making at XJT my last couple of years. Most of that was before the large pay bump to CA pay on year 2 with our new LOA. I am upgrading and will be even better off in the coming months. The trips and lines built at XJT were continually paying less and my yearly income the last 3 years at XJT according to my W2's was decreasing.

Flying the plane is the same. BUT, the crews at C5 are not slam clickers and don't walk past each other in the terminal and pretend to look down at their phone so they don't have to say hi to each other. There is not continuous talk of the airline shutting down or how the pilot list is shrinking on a daily basis. We don't talk about how the other half of the company is trying to screw us or even the master INC playing games. We don't talk about the MEC chairman's that were taking money they might not have been owed or how they were only looking out for themselves.

Sorry, I just realized I began my rant somewhere in the middle. :o :eek:

The grass is not always greener and it all depends what you are looking for. Yes our contract needs work and has been updated recently, but it still has a long way to go. I would still rather work at C5 than XJT.

DirkDiggler
05-30-2018, 11:05 AM
My QOL is much better here at C5 than it was at XJT.

Itís all perspective, seniority and how you bid. I get 21-22 days off every month at XJT. Any overnights are normally downtown city locations. So the job is basically a vacation from my real job.

I would love to see a side by side of XJT vs C5. Given weíre flying the same planes. I know we have long overnights at some very nice hotels, 4 hour airport standby periods max 6 month, 100% deadhead, flight canceled and you go home (if not in swap), 12 days off a month min lineholder. I wouldnít recommend anyone go to either company, but am genuinely curious to see how much they are saving moving the flying to C5. They obviously are or they wouldnít be doing it.

Hou757
05-30-2018, 04:33 PM
It’s all perspective, seniority and how you bid. I get 21-22 days off every month at XJT. Any overnights are normally downtown city locations. So the job is basically a vacation from my real job.

I would love to see a side by side of XJT vs C5. Given we’re flying the same planes. I know we have long overnights at some very nice hotels, 4 hour airport standby periods max 6 month, 100% deadhead, flight canceled and you go home (if not in swap), 12 days off a month min lineholder. I wouldn’t recommend anyone go to either company, but am genuinely curious to see how much they are saving moving the flying to C5. They obviously are or they wouldn’t be doing it.

We are much better off with Jack gone. He is Mister negative about everything... You better go update those paper charts and manuals!!

MaxQ
05-30-2018, 04:47 PM
It’s all perspective, seniority and how you bid. I get 21-22 days off every month at XJT. Any overnights are normally downtown city locations. So the job is basically a vacation from my real job.

I would love to see a side by side of XJT vs C5. Given we’re flying the same planes. I know we have long overnights at some very nice hotels, 4 hour airport standby periods max 6 month, 100% deadhead, flight canceled and you go home (if not in swap), 12 days off a month min lineholder. I wouldn’t recommend anyone go to either company, but am genuinely curious to see how much they are saving moving the flying to C5. They obviously are or they wouldn’t be doing it.

Don't know if UAL is saving money. However since XJT didn't bid on flying these aircraft one could assume UAL is saving some money by not having them parked.

Hobbit64
05-30-2018, 05:11 PM
We are much better off with Jack gone. He is Mister negative about everything... You better go update those paper charts and manuals!!

Not when I flew with him...
What is the constant and the variable in this equation?

Hou757
05-30-2018, 05:17 PM
Not when I flew with him...
What is the constant and the variable in this equation?

Go read his posts!

Hobbit64
05-30-2018, 05:23 PM
Go read his posts!

Not getting into internet joust with you about this.

You Said: "We are much better off with Jack gone. He is Mister negative about everything..."

He was great to fly with when I worked with him. Again, What are the variables and constants in this?

Boring night in XJT forums? Or are you just angry and want to spaz like a child?
Take Care buddy!!!:)

Hou757
05-30-2018, 05:36 PM
Not getting into internet joust with you about this.

You Said: "We are much better off with Jack gone. He is Mister negative about everything..."

He was great to fly with when I worked with him. Again, What are the variables and constants in this?

Boring night in XJT forums? Or are you just angry and want to spaz like a child?
Take Care buddy!!!:)


If you read his posts as I said, you would realize how negative he is about anything related to XJT. For that reason he needs to be gone from XJT. Not that hard to figure out there buddy. If Commurtair is a good fit for him then I am happy for him.

Hobbit64
05-30-2018, 08:06 PM
If you read his posts as I said, you would realize how negative he is about anything related to XJT. For that reason he needs to be gone from XJT. Not that hard to figure out there buddy. If Commurtair is a good fit for him then I am happy for him.
Don't you have a bunch of Candler & 'Mainline' folks to irritate?
If you're truly happy for him, why are you here?
:)

Varsity
06-02-2018, 05:46 PM
Is year 2 as an FO really $66 an hour? (captain pay?) Is this contractually guaranteed?

MikeC5
06-02-2018, 06:01 PM
Is year 2 as an FO really $66 an hour? (captain pay?) Is this contractually guaranteed?

No itís dash-8 captain pay. That airplane we donít even fly anymore itís a way for recruiters and hiring to lie without lying.

NeoPilott
06-02-2018, 08:19 PM
No it’s dash-8 captain pay. That airplane we don’t even fly anymore it’s a way for recruiters and hiring to lie without lying.


not saying it's anywhere near being great but sure beats many other places at 55/hr especially at an average of 80 credit hours a month, doesn't it? I'm new to 121 but when I worked at a HVAC consulting firm in the NYC making same salary as most regionals pay, no one had told me that my 9-5 will turn into 9-9 during recruiting and HR seemed to have been concentrated on BS as well so things can be a lot worse. Good thing I left.

PosRateGearUp
06-03-2018, 04:52 AM
not saying it's anywhere near being great but sure beats many other places at 55/hr especially at an average of 80 credit hours a month, doesn't it? I'm new to 121 but when I worked at a HVAC consulting firm in the NYC making same salary as most regionals pay, no one had told me that my 9-5 will turn into 9-9 during recruiting and HR seemed to have been concentrated on BS as well so things can be a lot worse. Good thing I left.

The first officer pay scale listed here on APC includes the new (dash8 cpt) rates. Year two is $54/hr under the new LOA.

The Captain pay scale listed on APC is the jet captain pay scale, and will only be paid to captains.

You will be lied to and deceived in any industry. Plenty of BS to go around.

Alexey
06-03-2018, 11:01 AM
No itís dash-8 captain pay. That airplane we donít even fly anymore itís a way for recruiters and hiring to lie without lying.

I don't see the lie. All the ads mention 55$/hr specifically.
http://prntscr.com/jqck1g
http://prntscr.com/jqckbc

http://prntscr.com/jqckgk
http://prntscr.com/jqckn1


Where did 66$ come from?

StartUp161WanaB
06-13-2018, 04:00 AM
How much do you have to pay back for ATP/CTP if you washout in training?

NeoPilott
06-19-2018, 09:12 AM
Anyone can explain when do family travel benefits kick in?

Also, will the company non-rev back home during training for the weekends (once every 2 weeks or so) if requested?

Thanks.

hslightnin
06-19-2018, 12:51 PM
Anyone can explain when do family travel benefits kick in?

Also, will the company non-rev back home during training for the weekends (once every 2 weeks or so) if requested?

Thanks.

6 months for ZED fares.
I think non rev for UAL is turned on that first couple of days.
CASS isn't active until you pass your check ride.

They typically won't send you home for the weekends.

NeoPilott
06-19-2018, 05:17 PM
6 months for ZED fares.
I think non rev for UAL is turned on that first couple of days.
CASS isn't active until you pass your check ride.

They typically won't send you home for the weekends.


Thank you. I live around 3.5 hrs driving distance from IAD, think I would drive there in case I can get back home for some of the weekends.

c402fr8er
06-19-2018, 09:39 PM
Thank you. I live around 3.5 hrs driving distance from IAD, think I would drive there in case I can get back home for some of the weekends.

Drive in for sure; having a car will be quite useful.

I would recommend you suck it up and stay local though.

Use the weekends to review and prepare, especially if this is your first 121. If you're keeping your head above water, use the time to help your classmates, as the time helping them study will further cement the knowledge in your cranium.

While it seems like it is a long time away from home, this will not be the last time in your career you're away for an extended time for training. Better get used to it. There isn't a whole lot of time off, and after the 7-8 hours driving, how much time will you get at home?

And how much of that time will you be studying?


Feel free to shoot me a PM with any questions. Always willing to help out.

MaxQ
06-20-2018, 02:16 AM
Drive in for sure; having a car will be quite useful.

I would recommend you suck it up and stay local though.

Use the weekends to review and prepare, especially if this is your first 121. If you're keeping your head above water, use the time to help your classmates, as the time helping them study will further cement the knowledge in your cranium.

While it seems like it is a long time away from home, this will not be the last time in your career you're away for an extended time for training. Better get used to it. There isn't a whole lot of time off, and after the 7-8 hours driving, how much time will you get at home?

And how much of that time will you be studying?


Feel free to shoot me a PM with any questions. Always willing to help out.

Great advice.
Any airline initial is an immersion style training.

Also, if have a car you will save time during the week as have more options for food, less time spent getting to somewhere to eat etc.

jacburn
06-20-2018, 05:36 AM
Great advice.
Any airline initial is an immersion style training.

Also, if have a car you will save time during the week as have more options for food, less time spent getting to somewhere to eat etc.

Agreed. We stay at a very nice hotel for training in IAD. There is only one food option nearby the hotel. Also, the training center is very limited on food as well.

And the big bonus of the car, all of your classmates will love you.

NeoPilott
06-20-2018, 07:02 AM
Thanks guys! Maybe I will simply have my wife come up for 1-2 weekends while I'm in trying for a dinner/walk.

marshal
06-20-2018, 10:49 AM
Thanks guys! Maybe I will simply have my wife come up for 1-2 weekends while I'm in trying for a dinner/walk.

Family gets UA flight benefits at three weeks. Take one day off a weekend and see the sights with her while you have a chance. Studding is important, but you will need a mental break and they are already paying for the room.

NeoPilott
06-20-2018, 10:55 AM
Family gets UA flight benefits at three weeks. Take one day off a weekend and see the sights with her while you have a chance. Studding is important, but you will need a mental break and they are already paying for the room.

Sounds like a great plan, that's what I thought will probably work the best!

NeoPilott
06-25-2018, 08:59 AM
Someone had mentioned a few posts back to expect mostly 4 day trips. How senior do 1, 2, and 3 day trips are? In other word, do they usually get picked up/requested right away by senior FOís?

Freebreakfast11
06-26-2018, 10:11 AM
Someone had mentioned a few posts back to expect mostly 4 day trips. How senior do 1, 2, and 3 day trips are? In other word, do they usually get picked up/requested right away by senior FO’s?

Very senior, 4 and 5 days are about 80% of the flying so there isn't much to go around.

NeoPilott
06-26-2018, 10:43 AM
Very senior, 4 and 5 days are about 80% of the flying so there isn't much to go around.

Roger, how senior is senior for a C5 FO? Sorry, just have no idea if it's 6 month, 1 year or 3 years.

Thanks

Boeing Aviator
06-26-2018, 05:10 PM
Very senior, 4 and 5 days are about 80% of the flying so there isn't much to go around.

What percentage of the 4/5 day trips are commutable on both ends, or on one end and non commutable on both ends?

Or put another way. What percentage of trips have show times in the mid to late afternoon and end in the late morning to mid afternoon?

Boeing Aviator
06-26-2018, 05:22 PM
On positive note. As a senior United 757/767 Captain who mentors numerous pilots, my perception of Commutair is very positive.

I currently have two pilots Iím mentoring in the hiring and training pipeline. One is in the middle of training, the other just interviewed and was hired and starts class in August.

Those involved in the hiring & training process have been very professional and accommodating for both of my pilots.

Freebreakfast11
06-26-2018, 06:40 PM
What percentage of the 4/5 day trips are commutable on both ends, or on one end and non commutable on both ends?

Or put another way. What percentage of trips have show times in the mid to late afternoon and end in the late morning to mid afternoon?

Without digging too deep, from my experience, most of those 4/5 day trips are commutable on one end. A few are on both ends, but they tend to be low-time (undesirable) trips. A few are not commutable on both ends, and those tend to be higher-time trips. Also, we regularly hit GDP in EWR, which means you rarely finish on time if EWR based. On my last day, I plan on using the time I would time out as my bearing for whether a trip is commutable or not.

NeoPilott
06-27-2018, 07:23 AM
Just saw a facebook post with two C5 employees posing in front of 145 with Canadian flag. Caption said ď We are ready for CanadaĒ.

Is thing in the works?

MGMTiswatchingU
06-27-2018, 08:51 AM
Roger, how senior is senior for a C5 FO? Sorry, just have no idea if it's 6 month, 1 year or 3 years.

Thanks

About 2 to 3 years both bases combined.

MGMTiswatchingU
06-27-2018, 08:51 AM
Just saw a facebook post with two C5 employees posing in front of 145 with Canadian flag. Caption said ď We are ready for CanadaĒ.

Is thing in the works?

Yep. By 4th quarter

Toecutter
06-27-2018, 08:31 PM
How would C5 be for someone living and commuting out of Albany? Trying to decided on a regional to go with. Gracias!

Red23
06-28-2018, 08:28 AM
How would C5 be for someone living and commuting out of Albany? Trying to decided on a regional to go with. Gracias!

C5 operates 5 flights per day ALB-EWR on weekdays. You are likely to always be #1 for the jumpseat. ALB-IAD has 3 flights, 1 operated by C5. You will be EWR based as a new FO though. I expect you would have an easier time than most commuting pilots as far as getting on the plane. Also ALB is our maintenance base so I doubt we will lose that route to another regional anytime soon.

v1valarob
06-28-2018, 09:39 AM
How would C5 be for someone living and commuting out of Albany? Trying to decided on a regional to go with. Gracias!

We also have 4 - 6 ALB overnights depending on the day of the week, so chances of getting an overnight at home are fairly decent.

PosRateGearUp
06-28-2018, 11:27 AM
How would C5 be for someone living and commuting out of Albany? Trying to decided on a regional to go with. Gracias!

We have a couple guys that live in or near ALB, but they usually just drive to EWR. Flights are always massively delayed to EWR, which can make commuting difficult. It does seem doable, however, if you plan ahead for the commute. Thereís always repo flights too.

Arthur27
06-30-2018, 01:07 AM
How is commuting out of Orlando to EWR? I have heard that there is plenty of flights but it can be challenging due to the flights are mostly full. Any insight would be appreciated.

PosRateGearUp
06-30-2018, 03:24 AM
How is commuting out of Orlando to EWR? I have heard that there is plenty of flights but it can be challenging due to the flights are mostly full. Any insight would be appreciated.

Plenty of flights, plenty more pilots. Iíve been doing it for some time now. It can be stressful, but I think that goes for all commuting. Iíve only missed a report once due to weather and cancellations, but we have a commuter clause. Itís very doable if you give yourself time and use options other than United.

Montcalm
07-01-2018, 04:32 PM
Has anyone EVER been awarded shortcall reserve? I live in NYC and they have me sit airport standby all day in EWR.

Absurd.

JediCheese
07-01-2018, 05:16 PM
Yes.

I've had them not use me as short call reserve once. I've also received short call reserve and been called within a minute of starting my reserve period.

I assume you are a FO getting airport reserve. They're pretty desperate for FOs and using all the reserves.

Freebreakfast11
07-01-2018, 08:55 PM
Has anyone EVER been awarded shortcall reserve? I live in NYC and they have me sit airport standby all day in EWR.

Absurd.

I've spent a total of 2 years on reserve at this company in both seats, and I've gotten it twice.

NeoPilott
07-02-2018, 04:20 AM
I've spent a total of 2 years on reserve at this company in both seats, and I've gotten it twice.

So for someone living 15-20 mins away from EWR it will most likely be 2-3 hour call out while on reserve?

Freebreakfast11
07-02-2018, 06:14 AM
So for someone living 15-20 mins away from EWR it will most likely be 2-3 hour call out while on reserve?

No, you will be on airport reserve 99% of the time. No short call

NeoPilott
07-02-2018, 06:21 AM
No, you will be on airport reserve 99% of the time. No short call

Roger, and what's the current reserve time @ EWR?

v1valarob
07-02-2018, 06:44 AM
Unfortunately this place doesnít realize how draining it is to be on airport reserve every single day.

The worst part is that so far while on airport reserve Iíve never actually been asked to be at a plane within 30 minutes. Itís always hours of notice, so I could have sat at home anyway.

I would say that reserve is the biggest thing that needs to be addressed in the next contract, but reserve always takes a back seat at the regionals since your not meant to be on it for too long.

StickPig
07-02-2018, 07:50 AM
Iíve asked a couple questions on here so far. Would you folks that are currently on property choose to come here again, knowing what you know now? Are the schedules really that bad? Previous 121 time so I can upgrade early if thatís possible, but itís not a driver. Just donít want to hate life...

Thanks all!

JediCheese
07-02-2018, 08:57 AM
I’ve asked a couple questions on here so far. Would you folks that are currently on property choose to come here again, knowing what you know now? Are the schedules really that bad? Previous 121 time so I can upgrade early if that’s possible, but it’s not a driver. Just don’t want to hate life...

Thanks all!
I would come here again.

CommutAir is great to get in, get your 1000hrs, upgrade, get your 1000hrs 121 TPIC, and get out. You might be able to get a check airman or other training slot. There are Union positions available.

The pay is on the low end of average. The QoL is horrible. Our main base is horrible to operate out of. The few redeeming qualities are few and far between (primarily the crews you work with).

But you'll be gone in 4 years to someplace that you want to be at. That's the payoff and it happens every month here. A year here is like dog years for your flying career.

NeoPilott
07-02-2018, 09:07 AM
I would come here again.

CommutAir is great to get in, get your 1000hrs, upgrade, get your 1000hrs 121 TPIC, and get out. You might be able to get a check airman or other training slot. There are Union positions available.

The pay is on the low end of average. The QoL is horrible. Our main base is horrible to operate out of. The few redeeming qualities are few and far between (primarily the crews you work with).

But you'll be gone in 4 years to someplace that you want to be at. That's the payoff and it happens every month here. A year here is like dog years for your flying career.

I've looked over some junior schedules and they don't seem to be too bad with many lines having 4-6 days off in between some trips, and some junior lines have 3 day trips with multiple days off in between as well. I think it beats Piedmont's and Envoy's 4/2 horror? But again I am new to this.

StickPig
07-02-2018, 09:10 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. Still big gaps in training?

marshal
07-02-2018, 10:24 AM
I've looked over some junior schedules and they don't seem to be too bad with many lines having 4-6 days off in between some trips, and some junior lines have 3 day trips with multiple days off in between as well. I think it beats Piedmont's and Envoy's 4/2 horror? But again I am new to this.

Everyone FO who wanted a line in June in EWR was able to get one. There were a few people on reserve in July so it does fluctuate month to month. One maybe two months of reserve as an FO can be expected in my opinion, which is not worth a whole lot.

Thanks for the quick reply. Still big gaps in training?

In my class the longest break one had was 4 days, another had 22 with several options in between. It worked out because everyone had different life events to work around. The person who took the longest still was right under 90 days from start to finish.

Aviatormar
07-02-2018, 10:42 AM
I've looked over some junior schedules and they don't seem to be too bad with many lines having 4-6 days off in between some trips, and some junior lines have 3 day trips with multiple days off in between as well. I think it beats Piedmont's and Envoy's 4/2 horror? But again I am new to this..

I agree- everyone says the qol is awful- based on your lines what makes so awful?

StickPig
07-02-2018, 10:43 AM
Everyone FO who wanted a line in June in EWR was able to get one. There were a few people on reserve in July so it does fluctuate month to month. One maybe two months of reserve as an FO can be expected in my opinion, which is not worth a whole lot.



In my class the longest break one had was 4 days, another had 22 with several options in between. It worked out because everyone had different life events to work around. The person who took the longest still was right under 90 days from start to finish.

Not bad. Any insight on this ATP style written they make you take, and interview? Recruiter said some systems questions were being asked now in the tech portion...

marshal
07-02-2018, 11:11 AM
Not bad. Any insight on this ATP style written they make you take, and interview? Recruiter said some systems questions were being asked now in the tech portion...

All very low key. Basic ATP questions, nothing to worry about if you are current. One maybe two questions about your current plane just make sure you have a heartbeat.

Freebreakfast11
07-02-2018, 11:13 AM
.

I agree- everyone says the qol is awful- based on your lines what makes so awful?

You report on day 1 for a 4 day trip, and the entire thing is pulled for IOE. You sit reserve and get released on day 4 waaaay later than original release. Or, you report, fly to the outstation, get a 4 hour GDP and the rest of the day is quick turns with no breaks and little time to rest/eat. Min rest overnight (because you're late) and report and do the same thing again, because the EWR GDP hits every single day. Min rest again, maybe even taking a crew rest delay in the morning. You finish day 4 and miss your planned commute, its backup, and now you have little chace of getting home.
You change bases to IAD, but all the trips cross over to EWR, so there is no avoiding it.

NeoPilott
07-02-2018, 11:44 AM
You report on day 1 for a 4 day trip, and the entire thing is pulled for IOE. You sit reserve and get released on day 4 waaaay later than original release. Or, you report, fly to the outstation, get a 4 hour GDP and the rest of the day is quick turns with no breaks and little time to rest/eat. Min rest overnight (because you're late) and report and do the same thing again, because the EWR GDP hits every single day. Min rest again, maybe even taking a crew rest delay in the morning. You finish day 4 and miss your planned commute, its backup, and now you have little chace of getting home.
You change bases to IAD, but all the trips cross over to EWR, so there is no avoiding it.

Roger, however It seems like it's no so bad for someone living in base. I do understand GDP and rest issues. To me it sounds better than my current 24/7 work situation (5 years now) between engineering and instructing :P

StickPig
07-03-2018, 11:31 AM
Would a current pilot on property be willing to chat on the phone for a bit about the status of C5? IF SO, Iíd be much appreciative. PM me if available!

TomJ1026
10-07-2018, 01:07 PM
Hi, I also was concerned after reading all the complaints, but decided to go with them anyway. Now I'm going through the systems and like it so far, all the instructors and management people I've met were great. So I think the bad stuff on the web is not quite accurate if at all. Feel free to pm me with any questions.

Hey how have you been liking the job since you posted this? Iím about to start class, will be commuting from Tampa.

lovesrjs
10-08-2018, 07:24 AM
Iím finishing indoc and the instructors are really good. Great experience so far.

SpringLanding
10-12-2018, 02:57 AM
No, you will be on airport reserve 99% of the time. No short call

This sounds awful. I'd be fine with short call reserve, but airport reserve as a regular thing -- that is a deal breaker for me.

I saw that reserve is only 2 months at EWR - would I spend most of that time sitting around the EWR lounge, or flying?

jacburn
10-12-2018, 05:11 AM
This sounds awful. I'd be fine with short call reserve, but airport reserve as a regular thing -- that is a deal breaker for me.

I saw that reserve is only 2 months at EWR - would I spend most of that time sitting around the EWR lounge, or flying?

Flying .

njd1
10-12-2018, 06:09 AM
I'll agree that ready reserve sucks and short call should be an option. I live only an hour away (drive time) from EWR but I'd hate to make that trip every day of reserve "just in case".

That said, a few months on reserve is trivial, particularly if living in base. I knew someone who was serving time during the lost decade and had to do ready reserve at LGA for three YEARS before they got a line. That is a special kind of hell.

Then there's the upside that ready reserve eliminates any feelings of panic that would result from trying to get to the airport within two hours in the event of a "driver's IROP" situation like a crash on the Turnpike or any higher than usual traffic. And for those people like me who have other work that could be done remotely any downtime would not be wasted.

Like most annoyances in this field I suppose it's how you choose to look at it. Good to hear that reserves are actually used, because I think the biggest thing that sucks about reserve at some companies is never flying. We're all doing this to build our 121 time, right?

rabbo
10-12-2018, 06:31 AM
A recruiter told me line holders are flying 85-95 hrs a month and reserve are 65-75 and that everyone is getting EWR initially but will have the ability to get IAD within a couple months at most. Sounds like even on "ready reserve" you are getting used.

I don't work at Commutair right now but reading between the lines and looking at some other sites, it sounds like Commutair is fine for a get in, get your time, get out mentality. Commutair is top of my list because 1. I need a RTP program and 2. IAD base with decent pay (Sure year 1 is 36.91 which isn't great but 12 months after training, they pay FOs 55.50).

corporategypsy
10-12-2018, 06:57 AM
2 people from the latest indoc class and one from the Sept 20th were pulled for immediate upgrade. If you have prior 121 will upgrade fast.

v1valarob
10-12-2018, 09:17 AM
it sounds like Commutair is fine for a get in, get your time, get out mentality.

This.

And the CEO will flat out tell you that he wants you in, get your 1000 commutair PIC, go to united.

They dont want a senior group.

And yes, you can hold IAD before training ends.

newairlinepilot
10-12-2018, 10:03 AM
This.

And the CEO will flat out tell you that he wants you in, get your 1000 commutair PIC, go to united.

They dont want a senior group.

And yes, you can hold IAD before training ends.


This. I got IAD before finishing training.

njd1
10-12-2018, 11:02 AM
They dont want a senior group.

Are you suggesting they don't want lifers or don't like hiring people older than 30? There is a difference.

MikeC5
10-12-2018, 11:33 AM
This.

And the CEO will flat out tell you that he wants you in, get your 1000 commutair PIC, go to united.

They dont want a senior group.

And yes, you can hold IAD before training ends.

Are you suggesting they don't want lifers or don't like hiring people older than 30? There is a difference.

They don't want lifers.
They want ignorant, young first officers who don't know anything about contracts or unions, or how airlines operate. They want to continue operating with one of the worst union contracts in the industry to have low operating costs. They want to continue to consider every pilot a reserve pilot. They want to pretend they are on the cutting edge of technology by introducing iPads three years after other regionals, and being the last regional to do so.
I've been here three years. Didn't pass the hogan. Waiting for another opportunity. Don't think you'll just pass the hogan and be on to United. Many people don't make it.

njd1
10-12-2018, 11:52 AM
They don't want lifers.
I've been here three years. Didn't pass the hogan. Waiting for another opportunity. Don't think you'll just pass the hogan and be on to United. Many people don't make it.

I've stopped trying to predict anything in this industry, including whether I'll get to the LCCs or Majors. I'm just looking to be based in EWR, get 1000+ TPIC and go elsewhere (not necessarily UA). From what you say it sounds like C5 will do at least that for me.

Just curious: someone earlier said that the typical line here is 85-95 hours. Not sure if that was block or credit but I assume block. I really have no interest in flying that much and would prefer to bid for ~75 hours, max credit and hence max days off. I want to go to work, work like mad, and then disconnect for half the month. Is that feasible or even possible with some seniority? Or is the contract so bad that they can call me in on days off or extend forever?

PosRateGearUp
10-12-2018, 12:04 PM
I've stopped trying to predict anything in this industry, including whether I'll get to the LCCs or Majors. I'm just looking to be based in EWR, get 1000+ TPIC and go elsewhere (not necessarily UA). From what you say it sounds like C5 will do at least that for me.

Just curious: someone earlier said that the typical line here is 85-95 hours. Not sure if that was block or credit but I assume block. I really have no interest in flying that much and would prefer to bid for ~75 hours, max credit and hence max days off. I want to go to work, work like mad, and then disconnect for half the month. Is that feasible or even possible with some seniority? Or is the contract so bad that they can call me in on days off or extend forever?

Usually the min credit window for line holders is in the mid 80s. An option would be to sell your trips to get down to 75... but thereís no guarantee.

Extensions are not that common into days off, and they cannot call you in on a day off.

Aviatormar
10-12-2018, 02:56 PM
Couple of quick questions (assuming one comes into C5 with over 1000 hrs 121 time and is qualified to fill the CA requirements):
How much are reserve captains flying?
Time to a line for both seats in both bases?
With recent classes seeing new hires being awarded CA, can one assume thatís only for ewr? Or is that for both bases?
Whatís the mins to become an LCA (time on type? Time with the company?

Thanks!

Freebreakfast11
10-12-2018, 10:49 PM
A recruiter told me line holders are flying 85-95 hrs a month and reserve are 65-75 and that everyone is getting EWR initially but will have the ability to get IAD within a couple months at most. Sounds like even on "ready reserve" you are getting used.

I don't work at Commutair right now but reading between the lines and looking at some other sites, it sounds like Commutair is fine for a get in, get your time, get out mentality. Commutair is top of my list because 1. I need a RTP program and 2. IAD base with decent pay (Sure year 1 is 36.91 which isn't great but 12 months after training, they pay FOs 55.50).
The LOA for the 2nd year captain pay expires in December 2019. So 2nd year pay is 39/hour starting December 2019. Anyone hired now is not guaranteed 55/hour for 2nd year. Most likely, the company and union will have to negotiate a new contract which could take months and even years. Don't count on a speedy negotiation and 55/hour year 2.

Freebreakfast11
10-12-2018, 10:51 PM
I've stopped trying to predict anything in this industry, including whether I'll get to the LCCs or Majors. I'm just looking to be based in EWR, get 1000+ TPIC and go elsewhere (not necessarily UA). From what you say it sounds like C5 will do at least that for me.

Just curious: someone earlier said that the typical line here is 85-95 hours. Not sure if that was block or credit but I assume block. I really have no interest in flying that much and would prefer to bid for ~75 hours, max credit and hence max days off. I want to go to work, work like mad, and then disconnect for half the month. Is that feasible or even possible with some seniority? Or is the contract so bad that they can call me in on days off or extend forever?
You'll need quite a bit of seniority (top 1/3 of FO or CA list) to get more than 14 off. Contract is poor and extensions do happen, but they can't call you on days off.

JediCheese
10-13-2018, 06:29 AM
You'll need quite a bit of seniority (top 1/3 of FO or CA list) to get more than 14 off.
I don't know about the CA list, but as a FO I could get 15-16 off quite regularly when I wasn't on reserve. Once on the top third, I was getting 16-18 days off and was avoiding a few overnights at certain stations due to the poor hotels/overnights.

standardrate
10-13-2018, 06:32 AM
They don't want lifers.
They want ignorant, young first officers who don't know anything about contracts or unions, or how airlines operate. They want to continue operating with one of the worst union contracts in the industry to have low operating costs. They want to continue to consider every pilot a reserve pilot. They want to pretend they are on the cutting edge of technology by introducing iPads three years after other regionals, and being the last regional to do so.
I've been here three years. Didn't pass the hogan. Waiting for another opportunity. Don't think you'll just pass the hogan and be on to United. Many people don't make it.
Do you remember why you didn't pass the hogan? The type of questions on there seem like they can be tricky for a mental test...
And apparently in the past year they changed the whole CPP program to no second interview. An actual flow. Confirmed with COO. 4 year degree or equivalent also.
Im just trying to confirm as much as i can with pilots before i sign a contract with them

MikeC5
10-13-2018, 08:18 AM
Do you remember why you didn't pass the hogan? The type of questions on there seem like they can be tricky for a mental test...
And apparently in the past year they changed the whole CPP program to no second interview. An actual flow. Confirmed with COO. 4 year degree or equivalent also.
Im just trying to confirm as much as i can with pilots before i sign a contract with them

They don't tell you why you don't pass the hogan. I have no idea. I've known people who passed it that really make me scratch my head. But I have zero clue how these tests work.
And in no way whatsoever is there any "actual flow". And what is an equivalent of a 4 year degree?

Freebreakfast11
10-13-2018, 09:29 AM
Do you remember why you didn't pass the hogan? The type of questions on there seem like they can be tricky for a mental test...
And apparently in the past year they changed the whole CPP program to no second interview. An actual flow. Confirmed with COO. 4 year degree or equivalent also.
Im just trying to confirm as much as i can with pilots before i sign a contract with them
You're mistaken. It is absolutely not a flow, just a shot at an interview. If you come here expecting the CPP to be a flow, or close to a flow you're gonna have a bad time. United has turned down (and will continue to turn down) many qualified candidates and all around good dudes through the CPP at both the Hogan and the interview.

lovesrjs
10-13-2018, 01:58 PM
I donít know anything about the Hogan but I can tell you that C5 has been great so far. I started two weeks agoand came from another regional. There are some unique and really great aspects to C5. PM me if you want any info.

Do you remember why you didn't pass the hogan? The type of questions on there seem like they can be tricky for a mental test...
And apparently in the past year they changed the whole CPP program to no second interview. An actual flow. Confirmed with COO. 4 year degree or equivalent also.
Im just trying to confirm as much as i can with pilots before i sign a contract with them

standardrate
10-13-2018, 04:06 PM
They don't tell you why you don't pass the hogan. I have no idea. I've known people who passed it that really make me scratch my head. But I have zero clue how these tests work.
And in no way whatsoever is there any "actual flow". And what is an equivalent of a 4 year degree?

Ok thanks for reply. and Im not sure what that means either, I assume 4 years of schooling of some sort. That is straight from the site.

standardrate
10-13-2018, 04:09 PM
You're mistaken. It is absolutely not a flow, just a shot at an interview. If you come here expecting the CPP to be a flow, or close to a flow you're gonna have a bad time. United has turned down (and will continue to turn down) many qualified candidates and all around good dudes through the CPP at both the Hogan and the interview.

This apparently is new within the last year. If i am mistaken then they are outright lying.
Thanks for the honesty.

fenix1
10-14-2018, 05:23 AM
Where did you see - IN WRITING - that C5ís CPP is now ďan actual flowĒ to UA?

Do you remember why you didn't pass the hogan? The type of questions on there seem like they can be tricky for a mental test...
And apparently in the past year they changed the whole CPP program to no second interview. An actual flow. Confirmed with COO. 4 year degree or equivalent also.
Im just trying to confirm as much as i can with pilots before i sign a contract with them

PhantomHawk
10-14-2018, 07:55 AM
Nowhere. Because itís not. None of the CPPs are a true flow. Maybe thatís about to change, but is certainly isnít official yet.

turboprop87
10-14-2018, 08:05 AM
Ok thanks for reply. and Im not sure what that means either, I assume 4 years of schooling of some sort. That is straight from the site.The 4 year degree or equivalent has always been in the program's wording. I don't know of anybody that has gone to UAL without a degree, though.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

PhantomHawk
10-14-2018, 12:40 PM
The 4 year degree or equivalent has always been in the program's wording. I don't know of anybody that has gone to UAL without a degree, though.

I do. Itís very rare. So far, itís been LCAs only. Disclaimer : I donít work for C5, but XJT CPP is basically the same.

rabbo
10-22-2018, 08:19 AM
A recruiter told me line holders are flying 85-95 hrs a month and reserve are 65-75 and that everyone is getting EWR initially but will have the ability to get IAD within a couple months at most. Sounds like even on "ready reserve" you are getting used.

I don't work at Commutair right now but reading between the lines and looking at some other sites, it sounds like Commutair is fine for a get in, get your time, get out mentality. Commutair is top of my list because 1. I need a RTP program and 2. IAD base with decent pay (Sure year 1 is 36.91 which isn't great but 12 months after training, they pay FOs 55.50).

Wanted to pass along to anyone who is lurking that "Year 2 FO pay" aka pay 12 months after IOE is 55.50 but the recruiter said people are upgrading at 1000 Part 121 time regardless of how much TT you come in with. So anyone doing a pay comparison like I (incorrectly) did up there should consider you probably will not receive that 55.50 and if you do it won't be for very long.

Freebreakfast11
10-22-2018, 09:14 AM
Wanted to pass along to anyone who is lurking that "Year 2 FO pay" aka pay 12 months after IOE is 55.50 but the recruiter said people are upgrading at 1000 Part 121 time regardless of how much TT you come in with. So anyone doing a pay comparison like I (incorrectly) did up there should consider you probably will not receive that 55.50 and if you do it won't be for very long.

The 55.50 pay for 12 months after IOE will go back to 39/hour after the LOA expires in December. Plan on 39/hour for year 2 and hope that there is a new contract next year.

MGMTiswatchingU
10-23-2018, 10:26 AM
The 55.50 pay for 12 months after IOE will go back to 39/hour after the LOA expires in December. Plan on 39/hour for year 2 and hope that there is a new contract next year.

It will expire in December of 2019. However, folks getting hired today and onwards and planning on that 2nd year FO pay 12 months AFTER IOE will not see it because by the time you get to that 12th month mark (probably december of 2019) the LOA will be expired (unless a new contract is made before hand) and you don't get shiot. Thank you for your business. Hope you upgrade before then ;)

Know it. Understand it. Lickkk it. Love it.

Docskoli
10-28-2018, 11:25 AM
New contract? Ha! If anything it will get worse. Management literally hates pilots. Trying to roll back stuff right now.

MGMTiswatchingU
10-29-2018, 03:23 AM
New contract? Ha! If anything it will get worse. Management literally hates pilots. Trying to roll back stuff right now.

The question is, how much can we afford for it to get worse? Cause when it gets ugly here, its ****-hit-the-fan ugly. No make up, straight natural.

JediCheese
10-29-2018, 10:05 AM
The question is, how much can we afford for it to get worse? Cause when it gets ugly here, its ****-hit-the-fan ugly. No make up, straight natural.
It only gets bad until the operation can't take it anymore. It's why we got LOA 3 and 4. Pay $55 an hour for new FOs and $90 an hour for CAs and they'll have to barricade the door like it's the zombie apocalypse to keep the training center from getting flooded.

Our next shortage is going to be CAs and they aren't going to be bought off as easily as the FOs. The fact we hired/retained so few in 2017 is going to create issues for the company.

Docskoli
10-29-2018, 10:20 AM
Yup - total pilot population is pretty much flat. If it wasn't for the big class of Aussies in August it would be less year over year. Pay is part of it. The QOL here is awful and the management relationship with the pilot group is toxic. Aggressively screws with pilots. Goes out of their way to break the contract any way they can.

JediCheese
10-29-2018, 11:37 AM
Yup - total pilot population is pretty much flat. If it wasn't for the big class of Aussies in August it would be less year over year. Pay is part of it. The QOL here is awful and the management relationship with the pilot group is toxic. Aggressively screws with pilots. Goes out of their way to break the contract any way they can.
I don't think they are breaking the contract. The crew schedulers/management has figured out exactly where the lines are and the contract has a billion loopholes.

The spirit of the contract is definitely being abused. The contract negotiations next year are going to be interesting.

Due to the contract negotiations, I feel it's going to get worse before it gets better in terms of QoL.

hawk1123
10-29-2018, 08:48 PM
The spirit of the contract is definitely being abused. The contract negotiations next year are going to be interesting.

Due to the contract negotiations, I feel it's going to get worse before it gets better in terms of QoL.

Besides a pay increase (since thatís a given with any new union contract negotiation), what other issues are trying to get resolved with the next contract? In addition, with the planned growth from the current 30 planes to 61 by the end of 2019, what issues (or good things) do you see on the horizon within the next year or two. Finally, what does the timeline looking for the negotiations? I understand they can drag on for ages, but Iím just talking about the best case scenario!

Docskoli
11-02-2018, 05:53 PM
No best case scenario. Company won’t even talk until they have to in Dec 2018. Expect union to push for QOL improvements - reserve, line trip protection, maybe even duty/rig pay. Expect company to say no to everything.

Tampa2
11-03-2018, 05:37 AM
^^^this^^^



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