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View Full Version : Ati / abx merger?


Wings1856
04-20-2018, 12:29 PM
Ready...set...go!!:d


motorclutch
04-20-2018, 12:35 PM
A marriage made in HELL!

airbus300
04-20-2018, 12:43 PM
Ready...set...go!!:d

Source?...


Wings1856
04-20-2018, 02:16 PM
Source?...

Um. It’s out there.

l8fr82hub
04-20-2018, 04:39 PM
Source?...

James Comey

Asci
04-20-2018, 04:55 PM
Didn’t ABX have a single carrier petition back in 2016 that ATSG opposed? What’s changed?

nitefr8dog
04-20-2018, 05:03 PM
Ready...set...go!!:d
That's funny....ABX and ATI swap aircraft, dispatch, maintenance, routes, cities etc. When they filed for single carrier they had no support from the FAA. NAC and Aloha have like 8 aircraft and the FAA TOLD them they HAVE to file single carrier because they swap aircraft...lmao

BlueSkies88
04-20-2018, 05:06 PM
Does this means ABX pilots will be eligible for prime “bag tags”

#atipilotsfly4less
#bagtags

airbus300
04-20-2018, 05:08 PM
That's funny....ABX and ATI swap aircraft, dispatch, maintenance, routes, cities etc. When they filed for single carrier they had no support from the FAA. NAC and Aloha have like 8 aircraft and the FAA TOLD them they HAVE to file single carrier because they swap aircraft...lmao

Different uniforms (prime air bag tags, etc)

Wings1856
04-20-2018, 05:12 PM
James Comey

HA! Nailed it!

GeelErmo
04-20-2018, 05:57 PM
Does this means ABX pilots will be eligible for prime “bag tags”

#atipilotsfly4less
#bagtags

I’m ready for mine:-). Give it to me......!!! Give itttttt!!!

nitefr8dog
04-20-2018, 05:57 PM
Different uniforms (prime air bag tags, etc)
Well if you're talking about free bag tags that would be hugh!

motorclutch
04-20-2018, 06:19 PM
Guys if this comes true I’m predicting we flush Soapy and JV! Win win

Kougarok
04-20-2018, 07:00 PM
Guys if this comes true I’m predicting we flush Soapy and JV! Win win

I am really, really liking that!

redmanchew
04-20-2018, 07:05 PM
I'll take whatever pay cut necessary for my prime air bag tag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Industry Strnd
04-20-2018, 07:27 PM
Maybe a 2ND shot at Omni/Kalitta rates a good DC retirement, home basing and ABX work rules?

3 year fence and seat protection?

Industry Strnd
04-20-2018, 07:36 PM
On 2nd thought ATSG would screw this up. All the successfull mergers in the industry the management cared to get it done right and paid the pilots appropriatly.

ATSG isn't smart enough to see where the industry is and is headed! They already have a huge turn over and very few intrested. Pay ATI industry low rates and think it will solve long term hiring issues.....I think not.

Can you imagine the mass exedus if they try to Amalgamate the contracts like southern atlas? Lawsuits and people quitting, not coming to work here... if they are smart the take the best of both and move on and grow....but.....

2Planez
04-21-2018, 06:29 AM
You think that merger would be bad? Wait till Atlas buys ATSG and amalgamates Southern and ATI!

nitefr8dog
04-21-2018, 08:04 AM
You think that merger would be bad? Wait till Atlas buys ATSG and amalgamates Southern and ATI!
I don't think Atlas can afford ATSG...either way it would be a bigger $hit show than it is now!

wjcandee
04-21-2018, 09:07 AM
ATSG just bought labor peace at one of its two carriers, apparently in large part because labor peace was a major concern of a major customer. The carrier at which it bought labor peace flies 70 percent of the aircraft that have been dry-leased by that customer.

Merging the two carriers would instantly create renewed labor drama at the carrier at which ATSG had just bought labor peace. Not to mention a long list of operational matters to deal with, given the very different procedures and operational cultures at the two carriers. It would have been one thing to have had a single-transportation-system finding by the NMB, where (in this case) two different carriers would be required to have one bargaining representative (union). It is quite another thing to merge two employee groups, manuals, operational procedures, etc. Particularly-so given the relationship between the two groups here.

It doesn't strike me that, long-term, there is that much operational inefficiency from having two separate carriers, given that many of the similar/duplicative functions are already contracted out to ATSG units that serve both carriers. The major extra expense is having two groups of executives. Meanwhile, short-term, trying to merge these two particular carriers would be a complete goatrope and very-expensive at the end of the day.

Having just accomplished labor peace, do they really want a representation fight at a merged ABX/ATI, as well as a prolonged, new, contract fight? If there is some contractual provision that they think would require a simple resolution of the representation and contract issues, do they really think that 1224's very-creative attorneys wouldn't tie them up in litigation for years?

It seems insane to me that ATSG would want to do this. There are quite a few other options for structural change that would leave the contract and labor peace intact at the one carrier.

As we used to say when I lived in Texas: "Why borrow the trouble?"

(Of course, the fact that it seems insane to me doesn't mean that out in Hooterville they don't see it as pure genius...)

nitefr8dog
04-21-2018, 09:18 AM
ATSG just bought labor peace at one of its two carriers, apparently in large part because labor peace was a major concern of a major customer. The carrier at which it bought labor peace flies 70 percent of the aircraft that have been dry-leased by that customer

Merging the two carriers would instantly create renewed labor drama at the carrier at which ATSG had just bought labor peace. Not to mention a long list of operational matters to deal with, given the very different procedures and operational cultures at the two carriers. It would have been one thing to have had a single-transportation-system finding by the NMB, where (in this case) two different carriers would be required to have one bargaining representative (union). It is quite another thing to merge two employee groups, manuals, operational procedures, etc. Particularly-so given the relationship between the two groups here.

It doesn't strike me that, long-term, there is that much operational inefficiency from having two separate carriers, given that many of the similar/duplicative functions are already contracted out to ATSG units that serve both carriers. The major extra expense is having two groups of executives. Meanwhile, short-term, trying to merge these two particular carriers would be a complete goatrope and very-expensive at the end of the day.

Having just accomplished labor peace, do they really want a representation fight at a merged ABX/ATI, as well as a prolonged, new, contract fight? If there is some contractual provision that they think would require a simple resolution of the representation and contract issues, do they really think that 1224's very-creative attorneys wouldn't tie them up in litigation for years?

It seems insane to me that ATSG would want to do this. There are quite a few other options for structural change that would leave the contract and labor peace intact at the one carrier.

As we used to say when I lived in Texas: "Why borrow the trouble?"

(Of course, the fact that it seems insane to me doesn't mean that out in Hooterville they don't see it as pure genius...)
Anything that makes sense or saves money has always been frowned upon....

gumpscheck
04-21-2018, 09:39 AM
Different uniforms (prime air bag tags, etc)

Different uniforms??? The only difference is the little logo on their ties.
Quit drinking the JV & Mongo Kool-Aid.

gumpscheck
04-21-2018, 09:49 AM
It seems insane to me that ATSG would want to do this. There are quite a few other options for structural change that would leave the contract and labor peace intact at the one carrier.

What would those options be? Just curious...

No Land 3
04-21-2018, 06:31 PM
Merge and remove the whipsaw? Yeh right!!!

ocskyguy
04-23-2018, 09:47 PM
Not my fight. No dog in the hunt. But...

Something for you all to consider. A while back, UPS decided to axe the contract carriers and start their own airline. They severed their agreements with the largest ACMI folk and, instead, bought the certificate of the smallest ACMI carrier that serviced their network. The better to mold the new airline in their own image.

Flash forward. Amazon is rounding up the posse of ACMI carriers willing to sell their soul to Bezos. Amazon is notorious for awarding their services to the lowest bidder.

Be it GB, 5Y, or ATI, I predict that Amazon will never absorb any of the larger carriers. Too easy to pit one against the other (DHL has been doing it for years). Instead, they will choose the smallest airline and mold it to fit the Amazon image.

Anybody want to start an airline...

midnightshuttle
04-24-2018, 11:41 AM
Just had this conversations in the hub a week ago...

Rumors seem to be coming from the ABX side. JV supposedly is trying to get an ATI sen# but who knows.

motorclutch
04-24-2018, 06:59 PM
Good luck getting an ALPA seniority number......Let the lawsuits begin.
This seems to be the case of failing to get a chair before the music stopped!

Industry Strnd
04-25-2018, 07:28 AM
If this does happen I'd say it will be tied up in the court system for years. Union sues company, company sues union, pilot law suits against unions. Everyone will sue everyone over how to do it or How it was done because management won't have learned from the rest of the industry that you just have to give the pilots an offer they can't refuse.

tiredofjrm
04-25-2018, 10:33 AM
Maybe I should become a lawyer..



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