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AirBear
04-23-2018, 02:00 PM
Manager's Amendment has been amended, now it's age 70 for operators with over 150,000 turbojet operations. Still has to get passed by the House, then the Senate and differences worked out.

https://amendments-rules.house.gov/amendments/STA_PILOT_001_xml423181458295829.pdf


bjtdrvr
04-23-2018, 02:21 PM
That actually is reasonable allowing folks to retire without penalty to SS.

AirBear
04-23-2018, 02:39 PM
That actually is reasonable allowing folks to retire without penalty to SS.

Yes, much better than 65 but still total BS with NJA calling it for "safety". Never mind they'll save millions per year on medical and MLOA benefits.

This also won't hit the schedule nearly as badly. 1 year phase in and at least 60% of the pilots over 70 are already on MLOA.

Having said that, we do have some older pilots who don't know when to quit. They helped bring this about. Some pilots complaining about basically having to fly solo with these guys in the seat. It's just too bad others who still have all their wits about them are getting the boot too.

The amendment was offered by Bob Gibbs (R-OH). I strongly suspect NJA was behind it, the age 65 would have hurt the schedule too much and cost a fortune in sell-offs.


bjtdrvr
04-23-2018, 04:03 PM
If you read about the teb lear crash that pic was all by himself and he shouldn't have been. That was scary. Sorry for thread creep.

Jetlife
04-23-2018, 06:18 PM
Mooney rejoices!

AirBear
04-23-2018, 06:46 PM
Correction: The above amendment by Gibbs is a stand alone amendment, not part of the "manager's amendment" that Shuster (R-PA) was going to do. The whole package should go to the rules committee this week. If it survives intact then the Senate has to act. Current estimates say late summer for a final vote.

Another big change is NJASAP is now supporting age 70. That was a deal cut earlier today. Had the union not backed this NJA would have continued to push for age 65. Union had an emergency phone conference among the Union Officers and decided to accept the company's offer and support age 70. It's still targeted only for NetJets thou, requiring 150K jet operations per year.

GeeWizDriver
04-23-2018, 06:52 PM
Bwahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!

It just gets better and better....

AirBear
04-23-2018, 06:54 PM
If you read about the teb lear crash that pic was all by himself and he shouldn't have been. That was scary. Sorry for thread creep.

Both those pilots were scary. Arrest records, multiple failed checkrides, etc. And the company had a "Gold" rating from some agency that rates charter operators. Freaking bottom feeder.

Jetlife
04-24-2018, 04:15 AM
Both those pilots were scary. Arrest records, multiple failed checkrides, etc. And the company had a "Gold" rating from some agency that rates charter operators. Freaking bottom feeder.

That would be ARGUS who gives the ratings. Those ratings are basically a pay tier system, pay more and you get a higher rating. The Akron OH crash was the same thing. Both pilots should have never been flying. Multiple failures, both pilots were fired from their previous jobs for training issues. That company was either ARGUS platinum or gold.

METO Guido
04-24-2018, 05:25 AM
Towering piece of legislation.
"Thanks for the lift Dustin, what an awesome ride. Most of the 4 pars this week really fit my eye so if we can just get some putts dropping…. Holy crap, please tell me those old dudes are just asleep."

BuckeyeFO
04-24-2018, 07:02 AM
still waiting to see how Mooney reacts.

Out of principle it should be fire and brimstone. If it doesn't affect his career choices it might be "I mean nothing in this world is perfect".

Mooney, I'm willing to pay for your lawsuit against the union if you choose to stand on "on the right side of history" and fight it. Ball is in your court.

Flyfalcons
04-24-2018, 07:06 AM
Some of the geezer meltdowns have been just precious.

rickair7777
04-24-2018, 07:30 AM
If you read about the teb lear crash that pic was all by himself and he shouldn't have been. That was scary. Sorry for thread creep.

Plenty of blame all around in TEB.

GeeWizDriver
04-24-2018, 09:24 AM
Some of the geezer meltdowns have been just precious.

The internecine warfare amongst the “brotherhood” has been amusing...

AirBear
04-24-2018, 12:32 PM
Some more articles on the mandatory retirement, the one from Flying.mag is already out of date but AIN is current:

https://www.flyingmag.com/netjets-pilots-cry-foul-over-age-65-retirement-rule

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-04-24/lawmakers-eye-age-70-mandate-netjets

AirBear
04-24-2018, 07:07 PM
Latest estimate is NJA has 75 pilots over 70. About half are out on medical. And there is a proposed 1 year implementation. So roughly 40-50 pilots will be forced out sometime in 2019. Depends on how many turn 70 between now and then.

aeroengineer
04-25-2018, 03:41 PM
Some of the geezer meltdowns have been just precious.

You mean like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdLB7tXWJ0k

Some of them may surprise you. Reminds of the guy across town who flies his US Flag and USMC flag in his front yard that he mows himself no matter what the temperature. Maybe we need a cage match between the older and younger crew to determine seniority:D

NJA04
04-25-2018, 03:50 PM
Pulling out the lawn mower while it's snowing isn't bada$$, that's called senility. :eek:

AirBear
04-27-2018, 11:37 AM
The House has passed H.R. 4 by a vote of 393-13. This bill contains the Age 70 Mandatory Retirement amendment and also language calling for the creation of an FAA Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) to study and update flight duty and rest rules for Part 135/91k operators.

It also prohibits the "Foreign Flags of Convenience" scheme.

Many of the arguments for age 70 rule for large operators can also be made for matching the FAR 117 rest rules. If they improve 135 rest rules it'll be around 3 years before we see any changes.

The Senate will consider this bill next month, if it passes there it goes to Conference for any differences to be ironed out, then to the President for signature. Probably late summer before it would become law, then there's a 1 year phase in for the age 70 rule.

tomgoodman
04-27-2018, 05:32 PM
Pulling out the lawn mower while it's snowing isn't bada$$, that's called senility. :eek:

Maybe it was a special lawnmower. :D

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yrt9qkBQ2Q

GeeWizDriver
04-27-2018, 08:19 PM
Long, long, LONG overdue legislation.

Flyfalcons
04-28-2018, 08:08 AM
It really is and those arguing against what is a very reasonable and generous age to bow out of a safety-sensitive position are starting to look really pathetic.

Jetlife
04-28-2018, 08:15 AM
It really is and those arguing against what is a very reasonable and generous age to bow out of a safety-sensitive position are starting to look really pathetic.

Didnt they look pathetic before? That age group is full of scum bag scabs, thrice divorced creeps who literally have to fly until they die just to pay the rent for their crappy apartment. An entire life of poor decision making, but ya Im sure their decision making in the cockpit is totally different 🤦🏻*♂️

GeeWizDriver
04-28-2018, 10:51 AM
Ive run out of popcorn on the union board watching the temper tantrums from the Ensure crowd.

Just one question. When does the Shrub turn 70? Somebody please tell me it is soon....

Jetlife
04-28-2018, 12:23 PM
Ive run out of popcorn on the union board watching the temper tantrums from the Ensure crowd.

Just one question. When does the Shrub turn 70? Somebody please tell me it is soon....

Hes actually 38 but the meth really aged him.

GeeWizDriver
04-28-2018, 01:25 PM
Hes actually 38 but the meth really aged him.

So THAT explains the psychosis!

Thanks for the info...;)

Fourpaw
04-28-2018, 03:14 PM
Who wants to work when they are 70?!?!??!?!?

I plan on bugging out at 55.

AirBear
04-28-2018, 05:40 PM
Who wants to work when they are 70?!?!??!?!?



People who can't handle change, and Pilots who mismanage their $$$. The old Piedmont Airlines had a Captain retire at 60 (max back then) and take over $1M lump sum retirement. He invested it in buying race horses and wound up driving a taxi in GSO :eek:

SHFP
04-28-2018, 08:37 PM
Know a 70+, both as a Retired AF Colonel w/pension, and as a Retired UAL Captain w/pension.... and with first wife still working as Nurse. Me....love being re(tired mostly).

Allegheny
04-29-2018, 04:16 AM
One issue not cited on this thread is that without some type of mandatory retirement age the union could make the argument that when an over 65 pilot lost his medical he was not in fact retired but he was disabled and therefore he could qualify for disability under provisions of the contract.

AirBear
04-29-2018, 08:31 AM
One issue not cited on this thread is that without some type of mandatory retirement age the union could make the argument that when an over 65 pilot lost his medical he was not in fact retired but he was disabled and therefore he could qualify for disability under provisions of the contract.

Loss of Medical was a big reason NetJets wanted a MRR. The 3 year LOM plan costs the company roughly $350K in salary and a lot in medical cost since they're self insured.

NJA must have had doubts about how soon they could get age 65 MRR passed, I think that's why they offered age 70 if the Union would join them in backing it. Their savings are a lot less with age 70.

Bonanzer
05-03-2018, 03:43 PM
Has anyone run the numbers for mandatory retirements with the age 70 rule?

AirBear
05-04-2018, 09:58 AM
Has anyone run the numbers for mandatory retirements with the age 70 rule?

The proposed rule only applies to NetJets, and there's only around 25-40 pilots that will be affected. (out of 2400-2500 pilots total) The rest are already on medical leave and most of those will lose their LOA benefits since they'll be terminated.

The age 70 still has to pass the Senate and then any differences worked out in conference.

rickair7777
05-04-2018, 10:54 AM
One issue not cited on this thread is that without some type of mandatory retirement age the union could make the argument that when an over 65 pilot lost his medical he was not in fact retired but he was disabled and therefore he could qualify for disability under provisions of the contract.

Actually that's reasonable. A retirement system should be constructed as such; using a disability system in that manner would not likely be sustainable (or equitable for everyone).

propilot60
05-08-2018, 05:50 PM
Age 70 is Bull****! 65 is correct. (I won't bother with the science--check the facts yourself; as well as the ruling from the 5th (https://www.nbaa.org/admin/personnel/age-60/20140502-federal-court-mandatory-retirement-age-for-pilots-is-not-age-discrimination.php)

Ge the hell out the way. Let the younger men have a chance. I know you've got to pay for those 3+ wives, but ****, you should have had a better plan.

That's a FAA SCREENING exam. NOT a qualification for astronaut. I know 99% of your's only plan for retirement is to die in the seat. You know it. Quit hiding behind the AARP and any age-discrimination B.S.

Young guys are not going to spend $250K to become ATP certified to sit co-pilot to an old guy that doesn't have enough sense (left) or honesty in his diminished abilities to get out of the profession.

So quit the 50-shades of gray circle-jerk and go enjoy life!!

hawkerpilot05
05-09-2018, 03:33 PM
NBAA has come out publicly against the age 70 limit.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

AirBear
05-09-2018, 03:35 PM
NBAA has come out publicly against the age 70 limit.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk

That's because they're getting desperate for pilots and the over 65 guys from the airlines are a source. Maybe not a great source, but a source.

Chris99
06-08-2018, 01:55 PM
https://cookcountyrecord.com/stories/511446796-judge-pilots-union-didn-t-discriminate-vs-senior-flight-instructors-in-agreeing-with-united-to-change-rules

Interesting age discrimination ruling for United Airlines...

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk

blueskies8
06-08-2018, 04:07 PM
https://cookcountyrecord.com/stories/511446796-judge-pilots-union-didn-t-discriminate-vs-senior-flight-instructors-in-agreeing-with-united-to-change-rules

Interesting age discrimination ruling for United Airlines...

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk



Sure, but this wasnt a federal mandate via legislation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tiggerpilot
06-10-2018, 03:41 PM
We've had a few at NJ who talked about suing the union for it's "involvement" in the age 70 rule. Of course, the union was trying to get them another 5 yrs from the company's age 65 stance (improving their bank account by about $600,000) but never mind that.

The post above is enlightening, and may mean the end to any litigation the 70+ pilots at NJ had in mind (as ridiculous as it may seem).

coastieflyer
01-11-2019, 10:47 AM
Anything ever happen with this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

coastieflyer
01-11-2019, 10:59 AM
Can anyone tell me if this legislation passed or not?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chase
01-30-2019, 03:03 AM
Old thread...did the Age 70 restriction that would have applied to just Netjets pass the Senate and get signed into law?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

MWilliams
01-30-2019, 03:28 AM
Old thread...did the Age 70 restriction that would have applied to just Netjets pass the Senate and get signed into law?

Thanks in advance for the answer.

No, it did not make it into the bill.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 05:41 AM
Regrettably.

Packrat
01-30-2019, 06:37 AM
Spoken like a youngster who forgets he'll be 65 at some point too.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 08:08 AM
Spoken like a youngster who forgets he'll be 65 at some point too.

No, it's spoken like a pilot weary of babysitting gummers long past their sell-by date who can't let go.

I'll ask again: What age limit ceases to be "arbitrary"? 75? 92? 103?

There HAS to be a limit, somewhere, to prevent the inevitable.

Sadly, the new contract amendment will only make the problem worse.

And 65 isn't that far for me and I will thankfully be LONG GONE by then.

OhSnapAF
01-30-2019, 08:23 AM
Spoken like a youngster who forgets he'll be 65 at some point too.

I cannot wait to be pushed out at 65.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 09:28 AM
Spoken like a youngster who forgets he'll be 65 at some point too.

Besides which, the proposal was for

AGE 70

Should the proposal have applied to ALL 135/91K operators? Certainly. But we HAVE to draw the line SOMEWHERE.

hawkerpilot05
01-30-2019, 10:56 AM
Easy fix, all turbojet operations should be 121. One level if safety. NetJets could go 121 tomorrow and would have their age limit, however, that brings along those part 117 rest rules.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 11:12 AM
Easy fix, all turbojet operations should be 121. One level if safety. NetJets could go 121 tomorrow and would have their age limit, however, that brings along those part 117 rest rules.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Be careful what you wish for. Part 117 is bovine excrement. Ineffective, overly complicated, and operationally destructive in the fractional realm.

Better to have the Fed raise the age ONE MORE TIME to 67 for ALL forms of flying held out to the public. IE: 121, 135, 125, and 91K.

G550Guy
01-30-2019, 12:45 PM
Better to have the Fed raise the age ONE MORE TIME to 67 for ALL forms of flying held out to the public. IE: 121, 135, 125, and 91K.


Will be interesting to see if that plays out. Im not following the issue anymore...

What is the FAAs position on this?





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Packrat
01-30-2019, 12:53 PM
And 65 isn't that far for me and I will thankfully be LONG GONE by then.

That's the difference between someone doing for the money and someone doing it for the love of it.

I'd much rather be with the latter than the former.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 01:27 PM
That's the difference between someone doing for the money and someone doing it for the love of it.

I'd much rather be with the latter than the former.

I would argue that it is the gummers doing it for the money.

It is those that retire gracefully and at an appropriate age that truly have a greater love and respect for aviation than the fossils that hang on until they can't get up the airstairs anymore.

hawkerpilot05
01-30-2019, 01:32 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Part 117 is bovine excrement. Ineffective, overly complicated, and operationally destructive in the fractional realm.



Better to have the Fed raise the age ONE MORE TIME to 67 for ALL forms of flying held out to the public. IE: 121, 135, 125, and 91K.I completely disagree. If you are that challenged managing your times per 117, get the App for this. It isn't that difficult. As for raising the age to 67, the dirty little secret with this is that this could bring ICAO medical standards that would most likely increase the number of pilots losing their medical to include younger ones. This is why ALPA is not for it.

Ask anyone who has had a medical exam to fly in China and wonder if they want that her in the USA.

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OhSnapAF
01-30-2019, 01:38 PM
That's the difference between someone doing for the money and someone doing it for the love of it.

I'd much rather be with the latter than the former.

Somebody doing it for the love, or somebody doing it for the money... BOTH are selfish if they stay past their ability to do the job appropriately or safely.

I LOVE my job, love love love it, but I want out at 65 from the professional world. The industry has a way of changing ones plans, but my financial advisor has set me up to retire very comfortably at 60, then I can choose when I go...

Finny McCool
01-30-2019, 02:28 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Part 117 is bovine excrement. Ineffective, overly complicated, and operationally destructive in the fractional realm.

Better to have the Fed raise the age ONE MORE TIME to 67 for ALL forms of flying held out to the public. IE: 121, 135, 125, and 91K.

117 is great.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 02:34 PM
If you need an app to track whether you are legal to fly a trip, the regulation is too complicated. And YOU will be the one to burn when Scheduling gives you an illegal and you mess up the math. Which they inevitably will.

Regardless, the fractional business model would be severely damaged if subjected to Part 117. Even more business would flee back to straight Part 91.

GeeWizDriver
01-30-2019, 02:36 PM
Somebody doing it for the love, or somebody doing it for the money... BOTH are selfish if they stay past their ability to do the job appropriately or safely.

I LOVE my job, love love love it, but I want out at 65 from the professional world. The industry has a way of changing ones plans, but my financial advisor has set me up to retire very comfortably at 60, then I can choose when I go...

Exactamundo.

We must have the same financial advisor...

OhSnapAF
01-30-2019, 02:38 PM
Exactamundo.

We must have the same financial advisor...

It is amazing what a little planning does for your future. Makes the large crop of 60+ pilots at NJA begging to work until they die, all that more pathetic.

Guard
01-30-2019, 05:03 PM
Correction: The above amendment by Gibbs is a stand alone amendment, not part of the "manager's amendment" that Shuster (R-PA) was going to do. The whole package should go to the rules committee this week. If it survives intact then the Senate has to act. Current estimates say late summer for a final vote.

Another big change is NJASAP is now supporting age 70. That was a deal cut earlier today. Had the union not backed this NJA would have continued to push for age 65. Union had an emergency phone conference among the Union Officers and decided to accept the company's offer and support age 70. It's still targeted only for NetJets thou, requiring 150K jet operations per year.

This was heavily taken about in the Columbus Puzzle Palace, I see NJA side and Union side, they need movement to keep people and they got guys 80+ here flying, Warren has deep pockets to move this legislation!

Packrat
01-30-2019, 05:12 PM
It is amazing what a little planning does for your future. Makes the large crop of 60+ pilots at NJA begging to work until they die, all that more pathetic.

I'm sure there are some who are multimillionaires who are still flying for the sheer joy of it.

tomgoodman
01-30-2019, 05:45 PM
I'm sure there are some who are multimillionaires who are still flying for the sheer joy of it.

So simple even a King can do it! :D

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/05/18/dutch-king-reveals-secret-life-as-a-klm-airline-pilot/

727C47
01-31-2019, 02:49 AM
70 was a fair compromise , it may yet again resurface, we shall see.

OhSnapAF
01-31-2019, 08:32 AM
70 was a fair compromise , it may yet again resurface, we shall see.

I didn't think it was unreasonable at all.

GeeWizDriver
01-31-2019, 08:34 AM
I didn't think it was unreasonable at all.

Nor did I.

Packrat
01-31-2019, 10:06 AM
So simple even a King can do it! :D


I always have my F/Os refer to me as "Your Grace" or "Your Majesty".
Either one will do...:D

Guard
01-31-2019, 07:49 PM
I would argue that it is the gummers doing it for the money.

It is those that retire gracefully and at an appropriate age that truly have a greater love and respect for aviation than the fossils that hang on until they can't get up the airstairs anymore.

We are loaded with people who "gotta pay for their Moody or have a second home to deal with or kids who have made poor choices". If I am still going to work at 70 I made some bad choices! Go play golf and drink expensive booze!

captfred
02-01-2019, 12:49 PM
We are loaded with people who "gotta pay for their Moody or have a second home to deal with or kids who have made poor choices". If I am still going to work at 70 I made some bad choices! Go play golf and drink expensive booze!

What is a Moody? Should I get one?

symbian simian
02-03-2019, 12:43 AM
What is a Moody? Should I get one?

I guess his ex-wife?

tomgoodman
02-03-2019, 05:17 AM
What is a Moody? Should I get one?


An expensive boat, and you probably should not get one. :D

https://www.yachts.group/gb/moody.html

Macjet
02-04-2019, 11:56 AM
Be careful what you wish for. Part 117 is bovine excrement. Ineffective, overly complicated, and operationally destructive in the fractional realm.

Better to have the Fed raise the age ONE MORE TIME to 67 for ALL forms of flying held out to the public. IE: 121, 135, 125, and 91K.

No thanks. Fix your own **** in house but don't drag the rest of us into your 91K work-till-I-die mentality.

Flyfalcons
02-04-2019, 12:47 PM
You don't think there's a group of 121 gummers pushing for that very thing, right now?

badflaps
02-04-2019, 01:51 PM
An expensive boat, and you probably should not get one. :D

https://www.yachts.group/gb/moody.html

Plus, it turns the opposite way in reverse.

vroll1800
02-04-2019, 04:39 PM
An expensive boat, and you probably should not get one. :D

https://www.yachts.group/gb/moody.html

I take it that you know, or at least have heard about the two happiest days in the life of a boat owner. ;)

tomgoodman
02-04-2019, 05:00 PM
I take it that you know, or at least have heard about the two happiest days in the life of a boat owner. ;)

Yes indeed, and owning one is not necessary if you are willing to obediently haul sheets, grind winches, watch your head during a jibe, and generally kowtow to His Seaworthiness. ;)

badflaps
02-04-2019, 05:08 PM
Yes indeed, and owning one is not necessary if you are willing to obediently haul sheets, grind winches, watch your head during a jibe, and generally kowtow to His Seaworthiness. ;)

Jeez, where were you when I was making my nightly conscription run.:D

GeeWizDriver
02-04-2019, 09:31 PM
You don't think there's a group of 121 gummers pushing for that very thing, right now?

If it is the only way to get mandatory retirement for ALL flying held out to the public, so be it.

But we absolutely need a mandatory retirement age in the 91K/135 world.

727C47
02-05-2019, 01:42 AM
I agree, 70 seemed a sane solution, and may rear its head again sometime in the not too distant future.

mooneymite
02-07-2019, 01:49 PM
I'm sure there are some who are multimillionaires who are still flying for the sheer joy of it.

I know of at least one.

He's a muli-multi....

Just likes the job.

tm602
02-07-2019, 02:33 PM
No thanks. Fix your own **** in house but don't drag the rest of us into your 91K work-till-I-die mentality.

He's not in that crowd. I think what he was referring to is the need for a federally mandated retirement age for everyone, including NJA and its gummers.

Guard
02-07-2019, 10:19 PM
I agree, 70 seemed a sane solution, and may rear it’s head again sometime in the not too distant future.

I will be surprised if they keep hiring the 65 year old retired American/United/SWA/Delta guys, according the the CP they have the highest wash out rates across the board, and I get it, hard to do a new PIC type ride at 65, the check is 3 hours of flying and 6 hours in the sim basically seeing things your did once on sims two weeks before. You don't really get a "practice check" here, the last two sims seem to be "clean up time" for all the stuff you took to long doing in the other sims. I did one no flap on sim one and then one on my check three weeks later, went badly, but I went around and just got back in the pattern, did another one and check airman called it "good CRM and judgment, no harm, no foul". In our aircraft out of 8 people in our group 6 needed an extra ride or two to go to check and 2 needed to recheck. I was just lucky to be with an 18 year Captain that wanted to put in the effort to chair fly with me and we made it but it was one long ass check ride!

727C47
02-08-2019, 01:25 AM
I will be surprised if they keep hiring the 65 year old retired American/United/SWA/Delta guys, according the the CP they have the highest wash out rates across the board, and I get it, hard to do a new PIC type ride at 65, the check is 3 hours of flying and 6 hours in the sim basically seeing things your did once on sims two weeks before. You don't really get a "practice check" here, the last two sims seem to be "clean up time" for all the stuff you took to long doing in the other sims. I did one no flap on sim one and then one on my check three weeks later, went badly, but I went around and just got back in the pattern, did another one and check airman called it "good CRM and judgment, no harm, no foul". In our aircraft out of 8 people in our group 6 needed an extra ride or two to go to check and 2 needed to recheck. I was just lucky to be with an 18 year Captain that wanted to put in the effort to chair fly with me and we made it but it was one long ass check ride!.

What fleet ?

Guard
02-08-2019, 05:29 AM
.

What fleet ?

Latitude, has way to many maneuvers jammed into the sim schedule!

Packrat
02-08-2019, 10:24 AM
If it is the only way to get mandatory retirement for ALL flying held out to the public, so be it. But we absolutely need a mandatory retirement age in the 91K/135 world.

I agree with this and Age 70 should be it. If for no other reason Age 70 is where you max out your Social Security payout.

Finny McCool
02-08-2019, 12:04 PM
No thanks. Fix your own **** in house but don't drag the rest of us into your 91K work-till-I-die mentality.

You're planning on kicking at 67? Damn, I'm planning on another 30 years....

tm602
02-11-2019, 08:21 AM
Latitude, has way to many maneuvers jammed into the sim schedule!

That was going to be my next bird after my sentence in the Phenom. But suddenly, that little Phenom aint looking so bad.

bjtdrvr
02-11-2019, 11:36 AM
That was going to be my next bird after my sentence in the Phenom. But suddenly, that little Phenom aint looking so bad.

The phenom is actually a great plane to fly if you fit in it. Super easy.

tm602
02-11-2019, 03:35 PM
The phenom is actually a great plane to fly if you fit in it. Super easy.

I just like a little more legroom on those 3.0 and longer flights.

Cujo665
02-11-2019, 03:43 PM
I agree, 70 seemed a sane solution, and may rear its head again sometime in the not too distant future.

Who the hell wants to work their entire life? Retire, relax and enjoy what youve worked for.

OhSnapAF
02-11-2019, 03:54 PM
The phenom is actually a great plane to fly if you fit in it. Super easy.

Nobody fits in it. Im 5.6 and it was miserable to be shoved in there all day everyday.

su2099
02-12-2019, 02:19 PM
Is there a potty for a 3-hr flight on a phenis?

GeeWizDriver
02-12-2019, 02:26 PM
Is there a potty for a 3-hr flight on a phenis?

Sure. It's called a "Johnny Bottle"

:rolleyes:

bjtdrvr
02-12-2019, 03:54 PM
A better one than a beechjet.

CA1900
02-12-2019, 08:56 PM
Is there a potty for a 3-hr flight on a phenis?


https://youtu.be/qrIXRnYO6_Q?t=80

MWilliams
02-13-2019, 08:24 AM
LOL, Well played CA1900!!!!

AirBear
02-13-2019, 09:17 AM
I'm 5'10" with a 30 inch inseam and I fit fine in the Phenom, still had one click left on the rudder pedal adjustment.

I remember the first time I landed it on IOE, I was like "damn this is easy". It is probably the easiest flying Jet I've been in and I've flown quite a variety since 1989. At NJA I've never flown a jet with an APU so I don't miss it. As long as you have a GPU you can hang meat in the Phenom in the middle of July in MIA. Very good A/C.

The Garmin 3000 is very nice, it would be nicer if they'd add PDCS. Get tired of telling CD you don't have it.

3 hour flights are rare, I think my record was 3:40 from MYNN to KMDW. Certainly no more than 1 or 2 per month. Could be different if you live on the left coast.

And yes there is a potty, a fairly nice one. Even have windows and sliding privacy doors. And the best part is it's externally serviced, just like the bigger jets. The potty seat can be used as a 7th pax seat. It's actually fairly comfy back there.

About the only reason I'd want to upgrade to the Latitude is the auto-throttles. (I'm lazy :p )

aeroengineer
01-25-2020, 07:53 AM
I remember reading this thread in amusement when it was active about a year ago but during a discussion with a fellow pilot recently I had a thought (dangerous yes as my wife likes to remind me) would video and audio recording of the flight deck in certain 121/135 operations help identify performance degradation and weed out those no longer fit to fly? (Strictly limiting who has access to the recordings such as the FAA for safety purposes only) I think enhanced medicals and cognitive tests are great start by the way. We think nothing of our bank tellers being monitored when they handle our money and school bus drivers when they drive our children to and from school. Matter of fact the amusement park industry monitors its ride operators at places like Disney and Universal to prevent dangerous actions or distractions like cellphone use. This type of monitoring would certainly be equal opportunity for all crewmembers without playing favorites. To be clear combining the two hot button issues of age and electronic flight deck monitoring in this post could cause a rift in the space time continuum and I'm not advocating for or against this but would like to generate discussion.

Shenzi105
01-27-2020, 06:15 AM
Nobody fits in it. Im 5.6 and it was miserable to be shoved in there all day everyday.

Thats not true, another typical troll comment. The Phenom is actually comfortable when you're sitting in your seat, typical of a business jet aircraft, but it's very tight going in and out of your seat. The biggest shag for pilots coming from bigger planes is the lack of storage space around your seat, you cannot have a flight bag behind or next to you.

Shenzi105
01-27-2020, 06:15 AM
I'm 5'10" with a 30 inch inseam and I fit fine in the Phenom, still had one click left on the rudder pedal adjustment.

I remember the first time I landed it on IOE, I was like "damn this is easy". It is probably the easiest flying Jet I've been in and I've flown quite a variety since 1989. At NJA I've never flown a jet with an APU so I don't miss it. As long as you have a GPU you can hang meat in the Phenom in the middle of July in MIA. Very good A/C.

The Garmin 3000 is very nice, it would be nicer if they'd add PDCS. Get tired of telling CD you don't have it.

3 hour flights are rare, I think my record was 3:40 from MYNN to KMDW. Certainly no more than 1 or 2 per month. Could be different if you live on the left coast.

And yes there is a potty, a fairly nice one. Even have windows and sliding privacy doors. And the best part is it's externally serviced, just like the bigger jets. The potty seat can be used as a 7th pax seat. It's actually fairly comfy back there.

About the only reason I'd want to upgrade to the Latitude is the auto-throttles. (I'm lazy :p )


Well said.

Retractable
01-27-2020, 08:06 AM
Thats not true, another typical troll comment. The Phenom is actually comfortable when you're sitting in your seat, typical of a business jet aircraft, but it's very tight going in and out of your seat. The biggest shag for pilots coming from bigger planes is the lack of storage space around your seat, you cannot have a flight bag behind or next to you.


And those autothrottles just dont work like they did in the bigger plane. 😎

Time to fly again!!

Retractable
01-27-2020, 08:09 AM
Thats not true, another typical troll comment. The Phenom is actually comfortable when you're sitting in your seat, typical of a business jet aircraft, but it's very tight going in and out of your seat. The biggest shag for pilots coming from bigger planes is the lack of storage space around your seat, you cannot have a flight bag behind or next to you.


Dont worry about it. That was a comment from 5 screen names prior.

DH2time
01-27-2020, 09:27 AM
Dont worry about it. That was a comment from 5 screen names prior.

Pot meet kettle

germanaviator
01-27-2020, 10:27 AM
Pot meet kettle

No kidding....

C2078
01-29-2020, 04:34 AM
Thats not true, another typical troll comment. The Phenom is actually comfortable when you're sitting in your seat, typical of a business jet aircraft, but it's very tight going in and out of your seat. The biggest shag for pilots coming from bigger planes is the lack of storage space around your seat, you cannot have a flight bag behind or next to you.

That is certainly your opinion, which I absolutely do not agree with. 2 years in the plane, absolute miserable experience. From knees to console is about 12 inches. Forget about any sort of comfortable recline, virtually upright. And yes, getting in and out of the seat is a task. 3-4 legs a day in those seats was an absolute horrible experience, not to mention the hunching around the cabin. The avionics is very nice, no doubt. But to say the seat is actually comfortable, especially when compared to say the Latitude or 350, well, that sounds like 🎈 and 🐴 (sound familiar?).

AirBear
01-29-2020, 09:56 AM
I spent around 3 years I think on the Phenom at NetJets. I'm 5'10" with 30" pants inseam. I had no trouble with comfort. And I flew A320's and 737's and the CRJ prior to NetJets. Sure the cockpit is tight getting into. Not nearly as bad as the Citation Ultra was thou. I always flew light cabin with NetJets so don't have experience in the bigger corporate jets but I'm sure they're easier to get into and I'm sure stand up cabins are nice to have. But I liked the Phenom and if able to return from medical leave I'd go back to it rather than learn a new jet. I even figured out how to stand up in the lav to pee :p

pugpilot
01-29-2020, 01:45 PM
Like most Embraer products, the seats are trash. Very little support. Getting is can be awkward but it is more of an acquired skill. With most flights being under 2 hours, the predominance of your backaches will be from loading or being hunched over too long while cleaning.

Retractable
01-29-2020, 02:17 PM
That is certainly your opinion, which I absolutely do not agree with. 2 years in the plane, absolute miserable experience. From knees to console is about 12 inches. Forget about any sort of comfortable recline, virtually upright. And yes, getting in and out of the seat is a task. 3-4 legs a day in those seats was an absolute horrible experience, not to mention the hunching around the cabin. The avionics is very nice, no doubt. But to say the seat is actually comfortable, especially when compared to say the Latitude or 350, well, that sounds like 🎈 and 🐴 (sound familiar?).


The hardest anatomical part to actually fit in the Phenom, Ive heard, is a pilots head.

Apparently, once they find a way to fit that in the plane, the rest of the body usually follows.

C2078
01-29-2020, 02:26 PM
J, would you deny that the recline is virtually non existent? Would you deny that the seat all the way back has about 12 inches from knee to console? Steve Touissant (63 or taller) had ulterior motives to fit in, and by no means is the standard bearer.

Retractable
01-29-2020, 05:08 PM
J, would you deny that the recline is virtually non existent? Would you deny that the seat all the way back has about 12 inches from knee to console? Steve Touissant (63 or taller) had ulterior motives to fit in, and by no means is the standard bearer.


The world isnt as dark as you make it to be for most.

dutchroller
01-29-2020, 05:28 PM
The world isnt as dark as you make it to be for most.



Im still not done unfolding after my time in the phenom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

germanaviator
01-29-2020, 10:52 PM
The Phenom really is pretty uncomfortable. It may be ok for some that are not tall and not big. I'm neither (5ft11, 175 lbs) and after a couple of years I really wanted something less uncomfortable. It's everything: Getting in and out, sitting there in practically only one seating position, with little to no room to recline, move back seat etc., not being able to stretch legs on longer fights, small seat with no support,working hunched over in the cabin, freezing balls off in the winter etc. A Latitude is so much more comfortable. It's like night and day.

Retractable
01-30-2020, 03:22 AM
Im still not done unfolding after my time in the phenom.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would take 10psi out of your head. Life should ride easier then... like a nice radial.

Shenzi105
01-30-2020, 02:36 PM
That is certainly your opinion, which I absolutely do not agree with. 2 years in the plane, absolute miserable experience. From knees to console is about 12 inches. Forget about any sort of comfortable recline, virtually upright. And yes, getting in and out of the seat is a task. 3-4 legs a day in those seats was an absolute horrible experience, not to mention the hunching around the cabin. The avionics is very nice, no doubt. But to say the seat is actually comfortable, especially when compared to say the Latitude or 350, well, that sounds like 🎈 and 🐴 (sound familiar?).

Hy, totally respect your personal views, we don't all fit the same and don't have same physical perception or need. The recline is actually fine for my 5'11" slightly overweight structure. But yeah, comparing to the Latty or the 350 - hold on I need to stop laughing - reminds conversation with my chick about how the X5 was much more comfortable than the Ford Edge..... well....

dutchroller
01-30-2020, 07:14 PM
I would take 10psi out of your head. Life should ride easier then... like a nice radial.



The problem was far below the head.


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Retractable
01-31-2020, 09:43 AM
The problem was far below the head.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://youtu.be/5hfYJsQAhl0