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Braniff DC8
04-26-2018, 04:41 AM
In reference to the other thread that was closed, those were not Boeing pilots. Boeing came up with an idea to use contract pilots (Cambridge Communications limited) to deliver aircraft and train pilots around the world. The actual Boeing pilots have been fighting for a contract for years. I knew a guy who told everybody he was going to Boeing but I quizzed him, as he wasn't American, and after some careful questioning, he did admit he was not actually going to Boeing. It would not surprise me if he was in Colombia flying the 787.

A number of airlines around the world are using these guys. Mostly foreign carriers. So, if you really want to support Boeing pilots, stop flying Boeings. We all know that is not going to happen. Just stop throwing the word Scab around like Candy, it's irresponsible.


Al Czervik
04-26-2018, 06:12 AM
I would love to not fly a Boeing!

jcountry
04-26-2018, 10:37 AM
Boeing has very much disappointed me over the past decade or so.


ReadyRsv
04-29-2018, 01:29 PM
The guys in Colombia are scabs.

jcountry
04-29-2018, 02:01 PM
The guys in Colombia are scabs.

Definitely.

We need a list.

When I started in this industry, most captains wanted to see your union card for a Jumpseat. And most carried a scab list.

Same with checkrides.

Thatís the way it should be.

You **** your buddies like that, and the lifetime of payback is well deserved.

Thor
04-29-2018, 02:07 PM
In reference to the other thread that was closed, those were not Boeing pilots. Boeing came up with an idea to use contract pilots (Cambridge Communications limited) to deliver aircraft and train pilots around the world. The actual Boeing pilots have been fighting for a contract for years. I knew a guy who told everybody he was going to Boeing but I quizzed him, as he wasn't American, and after some careful questioning, he did admit he was not actually going to Boeing. It would not surprise me if he was in Colombia flying the 787.

A number of airlines around the world are using these guys. Mostly foreign carriers. So, if you really want to support Boeing pilots, stop flying Boeings. We all know that is not going to happen. Just stop throwing the word Scab around like Candy, it's irresponsible.

OK, Boeing has abused AMPA pilots since at least 2012 (https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2012-09-12/boeing-pilots-protest-use-contractors-train-787-crews), and by your own words "Boeing came up with the idea". So why exactly aren't these Boeing's scabs?

They crossed a picket line and flew struck work. "throwing the word scab around like candy"? Gimme a break, these guys ARE scabs. I'll give you that they aren't AMPA members, but the Avianca debacle was organized and facilitated by BCA, they ARE Boeing's scabs. No?

BeatNavy
04-30-2018, 07:50 AM
Providing pilots as initial cadre/trainers/whatever for 6 months that was agreed upon...ok. Flying struck work outside of that scope...scab. Jmo

rickair7777
04-30-2018, 08:13 AM
Definitely.

We need a list.

When I started in this industry, most captains wanted to see your union card for a Jumpseat. And most carried a scab list.

Same with checkrides.

Thatís the way it should be.

You **** your buddies like that, and the lifetime of payback is well deserved.

Not scabs.

Scab like behavior yes, I wouldn't want them at my company.

I wouldn't mind having a list (but it cannot be posted on APC).

awax
04-30-2018, 08:28 AM
Not scabs.

Scab like behavior yes, I wouldn't want them at my company.

I wouldn't mind having a list (but it cannot be posted on APC).

Not scabs? How do you figure?

This cadre of pilots performed struck work at the expense of Avianca pilots who were striking (and being fired for striking).

Absolutely scabs.

rickair7777
04-30-2018, 09:07 AM
Not scabs? How do you figure?

This cadre of pilots performed struck work at the expense of Avianca pilots who were striking (and being fired for striking).

Absolutely scabs.

They didn't cross a picket line, not scabs.

7Thirty7s4Life
04-30-2018, 09:39 AM
They didn't cross a picket line, not scabs.

Yea they are massive scabs. You are no gatekeeper to the list. These guys should be added.

jcountry
04-30-2018, 10:29 AM
They didn't cross a picket line, not scabs.

Are you on crack?

The pilots they replaced have been fired as a result of a strike. What in hell is the difference?

rickair7777
04-30-2018, 11:24 AM
Are you on crack?

The pilots they replaced have been fired as a result of a strike. What in hell is the difference?

They didn't cross a picket line. Careful redefining the meaning of scab. Pretty soon everybody is calling everybody else a scab (saw this in the regionals).

They are turds though, if that helps.

awax
04-30-2018, 11:31 AM
They didn't cross a picket line, not scabs.

Hired as replacement workers for pilots fired for participating in a strike. Youíre wrong Rick. Donít get tripped up on semantics.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2018/04/17/boeing-provided-pilots-to-replace-avianca-pilots-who-were-fired-for-striking-alpa-says

https://www.financecolombia.com/avianca-fires-35-pilots-following-initial-disciplinary-hearings-last-years-strike/

https://www.eurocockpit.be/news/no-massive-firing-colombian-pilots

https://www.eturbonews.com/179362/no-massive-firing-pilots-no-corporate-bullying

BeatNavy
04-30-2018, 12:11 PM
They didn't cross a picket line. Careful redefining the meaning of scab. Pretty soon everybody is calling everybody else a scab (saw this in the regionals).

They are turds though, if that helps.

Merriam Webster does not agree with you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab

(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union
(2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
(4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

rickair7777
05-01-2018, 07:26 AM
Merriam Webster does not agree with you.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab

(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union
(2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
(4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

Ok, there's grey area.

BeatNavy
05-01-2018, 08:34 AM
Ok, there's grey area.

Non-union contract workers flying struck work? No gray area.

HuggyU2
05-04-2018, 11:31 AM
You are no gatekeeper to the list.
Last I checked, you weren't either.

There is obviously a difference of opinion within the unionized pilot cadre. Since we are all on the same team, maybe a slightly more civil discourse would be in order.

baseball
05-04-2018, 01:13 PM
Carl Ichan and Frank Lorenzo practically invented new techniques for union busting and tearing up airlines. Allot of stuff they'd done hadn't really been tried before. So, the old terminology of the traditional definition of the word "scab" may simply need to be updated.

Heck, look at a dictionary from 1969 and compare it to one today. Not only are there new words, and spin-offs of words, but there are entirely different meanings for thousands of words.

We, as professional pilots can re-define the term SCAB if we so choose.

If management has fired pilots who are on strike and then replace them with other pilots who are knowingly taking someone's job, those replacements are SCABS for sure. Even worse, those dudes have the benefit of reading flying the line 1 and 2. If they need to brush up on what sh1tty behavior is, they can either read up on it, or log in here on airline pilot central and figure it out.

Publish their names, and let them be banished forever....DILLY DILLY

rickair7777
05-04-2018, 02:53 PM
Carl Ichan and Frank Lorenzo practically invented new techniques for union busting and tearing up airlines. Allot of stuff they'd done hadn't really been tried before. So, the old terminology of the traditional definition of the word "scab" may simply need to be updated.

Heck, look at a dictionary from 1969 and compare it to one today. Not only are there new words, and spin-offs of words, but there are entirely different meanings for thousands of words.

We, as professional pilots can re-define the term SCAB if we so choose.

If management has fired pilots who are on strike and then replace them with other pilots who are knowingly taking someone's job, those replacements are SCABS for sure. Even worse, those dudes have the benefit of reading flying the line 1 and 2. If they need to brush up on what sh1tty behavior is, they can either read up on it, or log in here on airline pilot central and figure it out.

Publish their names, and let them be banished forever....DILLY DILLY

Entirely reasonable. I would propose that "we the pilots" should probably be the association of pilot unions, if they can be bothered with something like this. If we just let anybody brand anyone else a scab, pretty soon everybody who was a member of a pilot group who "stole" someone else's flying will be a scab, and it will have no meaning. If it's to have meaning, there must be a standard, ie you have to EARN the title.

BeatNavy
05-06-2018, 07:12 PM
Entirely reasonable. I would propose that "we the pilots" should probably be the association of pilot unions, if they can be bothered with something like this. If we just let anybody brand anyone else a scab, pretty soon everybody who was a member of a pilot group who "stole" someone else's flying will be a scab, and it will have no meaning. If it's to have meaning, there must be a standard, ie you have to EARN the title.

I personally donít see a reason to redefine anything. Merriam Websterís definition is pretty good and encompasses what most people in this industry consider scabs. Iíll re-paste for good measure.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab
(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union
(2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
(4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

USMCFLYR
05-07-2018, 03:12 AM
I personally donít see a reason to redefine anything. Merriam Websterís definition is pretty good and encompasses what most people in this industry consider scabs. Iíll re-paste for good measure.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scab
(1) : a worker who refuses to join a labor union
(2) : a union member who refuses to strike or returns to work before a strike has ended
(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
(4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

Based on this definition, and if in fact the pilots that were being discussed here came on board AFTER the strike was ended, which definitions are being used to apply to these offending pilots?
Plus - the first one? Not joining a union makes you a scab?:confused:

BeatNavy
05-07-2018, 05:26 AM
Based on this definition, and if in fact the pilots that were being discussed here came on board AFTER the strike was ended, which definitions are being used to apply to these offending pilots?
Plus - the first one? Not joining a union makes you a scab?:confused:

The dudes flying struck work down south? Not even a question. 3 and 4 apply. Couldnít be a more clear definition of a busting a strike.

What it is referring to is not joining a union when one is present. Clearly SKW pilots arenít scabs. At unionized airlines there are some ďnon-seniority listĒ pilots. This could be a gray area, or clearly defined in a CBA and endorsed by the union. At JetBlue we have part 91 pilots, or ferry pilots who take flight hours away from seniority list pilots. Generally these are 65+ year old guys who fly for fun for $500 a day, and JetBlue hires fewer seniority list pilots because of it. In other words, these d bags are taking jobs and flying away from us, for less pay and no benefits. By this definition, they can be considered scabs (and are by some here), but itís a gray area, and hopefully our CBA takes this cheap labor option away from the company. But, if our CBA allows it, then it is endorsed by the union and therefore could be argued itís a union sanctioned action/employment, despite not working under a union contract, and therefore they arenít scabs. Also, we have 100 or so out of our 3,600 pilots who are nonmembers and donít pay dues. Once a CBA is voted in, they will have to join and pay a lot of back pay and begin paying dues, or pay a contract maintenance fee going forward, or face termination. The union doesnít like it and obviously wants 100% membership, but so long as they pay the CMF in lieu of dues, they are covered and arenít considered scabs since they will be working under a union contract and pay a contract mx fee, just as union pilots will.

The dudes flying struck work down south? None of the above applies.

USMCFLYR
05-07-2018, 05:47 AM
The dudes flying struck work down south? Not even a question. 3 and 4 apply. Couldn’t be a more clear definition of a busting a strike.

(3) : a worker who accepts employment or replaces a union worker during a strike
(4) : one who works for less than union wages or on nonunion terms

OK...so IF what was reported earlier in this thread is true - that the strike ended, numerous pilots were fired (due to their involvement in the strike - and then these pilots were contracted to come in and fly in place of these fired pilots fit in with definition number three since it clearly says "during a strike"?

What it is referring to is not joining a union when one is present.
My federal job still has a union present = PASS.
Many (most maybe) of my co-workers are not members of PASS.
Are they considered to be scabs, or does the definition above only apply to private sector workers/unions?

If ANY strike ends, and there are people terminated for participation (or for any reason), is ANYBODY who takes the job after the END of the strike considered to be a scab, or in the case being discussed - is it only the first X number of people that equate to the X number of people whom were fired after the strike ended?

BeatNavy
05-07-2018, 06:17 AM
OK...so IF what was reported earlier in this thread is true - that the strike ended, numerous pilots were fired (due to their involvement in the strike - and then these pilots were contracted to come in and fly in place of these fired pilots fit in with definition number three since it clearly says "during a strike"?


My federal job still has a union present = PASS.
Many (most maybe) of my co-workers are not members of PASS.
Are they considered to be scabs, or does the definition above only apply to private sector workers/unions?

If ANY strike ends, and there are people terminated for participation (or for any reason), is ANYBODY who takes the job after the END of the strike considered to be a scab, or in the case being discussed - is it only the first X number of people that equate to the X number of people whom were fired after the strike ended?

I don’t know anything about PASS, but I’m guessing it’s a union that represents many different types of groups within the FAA. Do PASS workers work under different conditions or contracts than you? Do you do the same job for less pay and benefits than they do? Is union membership a required condition of being an employee, yet you and others refuse? Seems like a pretty clear answer...not a scab by any definition. Now if you crossed a picket line during a strike...may be a different story.

The strike, regardless of its legality, caused operational issues at avianca and subsequent terminations. If delta had a strike with debated legality, being decided by the Supreme Court, and in the meantime they fired 3,000 pilots, they can’t just temporarily hire non-union contract pilots to move their metal. That’d be a violation of their CBA. I imagine the same is true at avianca. Avianca could codeshare with another airline to move their pax under CBA allowances, or hire full time employee pilots, under their contract/union. But they can’t hire contract pilots outside of the scope of their CBA due to a self induced pilot shortage. They can have contract pilots for 6 months for training pilots/initial cadre that they had when they got their 787s...the union/contract allowed that. But as replacement for fired striking employees? No. Needs to be full time avianca employees. Not guys in Boeing shirts with Boeing lanyards.

USMCFLYR
05-07-2018, 07:23 AM
I donít know anything about PASS, but Iím guessing itís a union that represents many different types of groups within the FAA. Do PASS workers work under different conditions or contracts than you? Do you do the same job for less pay and benefits than they do? Is union membership a required condition of being an employee, yet you and others refuse? Seems like a pretty clear answer...not a scab by any definition. Now if you crossed a picket line during a strike...may be a different story.
Yes - you are correct. There are many different unions under the FAA that represent a variety of different workers within the federal service; obviously NATCA for the controllers is probably the best known. For my little piece of the pie - PASS (Professional Aviation Safety Specialists AFL-CIO) is a representative union.
No - there is no difference in any working conditions/contracts/pay between PASS members and non-members. No - union membership is not a requirement of employment.
I would agree your assessment; but taken solely by the definition it would seem that if there was a union present and you weren't part of it then the definition would deem you a scab.
I guess part of the point here that I see - is that there is still grey area in even the dictionary definition as presented.

The strike, regardless of its legality, caused operational issues at avianca and subsequent terminations. If delta had a strike with debated legality, being decided by the Supreme Court, and in the meantime they fired 3,000 pilots, they canít just temporarily hire non-union contract pilots to move their metal. Thatíd be a violation of their CBA. I imagine the same is true at avianca. Avianca could codeshare with another airline to move their pax under CBA allowances, or hire full time employee pilots, under their contract/union. But they canít hire contract pilots outside of the scope of their CBA due to a self induced pilot shortage. They can have contract pilots for 6 months for training pilots/initial cadre that they had when they got their 787s...the union/contract allowed that. But as replacement for fired striking employees? No. Needs to be full time avianca employees. Not guys in Boeing shirts with Boeing lanyards.
Let's not even bring in the legality of the strike into the discussion for the purposes of this discussion; just whether the strike was OVER or still ON-GOING. In your Delta example above - I assume you consider the strike still on-going and no one has determined the strike as ended. I do not know for sure - was this the case in the event down south?

The point you make about code-sharing pax is interesting and one that I have asked somewhere on the forum before when talking about strikes and such. It deals with FLYING STRUCK WORK. So if UPS were to strike - FedEx couldn't fly their cargo - is this true - that would be flying struck work?
So in a pax airline strike - if Delta were to strike and those pax that would have flown on Delta now fly on a different pax airline - are they flying struck work (people?).

This is a serious question as I am not well versed in airline union CBAs and such. In your reply above, it sounds like these example are specifically covered in airline's CBA - is this correct?

That for taking the time to answer these questions/scenarios BeatNavy.

BeatNavy
05-07-2018, 08:02 AM
Let's not even bring in the legality of the strike into the discussion for the purposes of this discussion; just whether the strike was OVER or still ON-GOING. In your Delta example above - I assume you consider the strike still on-going and no one has determined the strike as ended. I do not know for sure - was this the case in the event down south?

The point you make about code-sharing pax is interesting and one that I have asked somewhere on the forum before when talking about strikes and such. It deals with FLYING STRUCK WORK. So if UPS were to strike - FedEx couldn't fly their cargo - is this true - that would be flying struck work?
So in a pax airline strike - if Delta were to strike and those pax that would have flown on Delta now fly on a different pax airline - are they flying struck work (people?).

This is a serious question as I am not well versed in airline union CBAs and such. In your reply above, it sounds like these example are specifically covered in airline's CBA - is this correct?

That for taking the time to answer these questions/scenarios BeatNavy.

My thumbs are getting a workout and I didn’t bring my laptop...sorry if it’s an incoherent reply. And I’m not an expert by any means on unions, so take what I say with a grain of salt. My delta example, and for the sake of relating it to avianca, is with the assumption that the strike is over/ruled illegal, with subsequently fired employees, based on the fact that the government ordered them back to work. If delta pilots struck, then the president ordered them back to work, or the strike was otherwise ruled illegal, I don't think the union/pilots have a choice...the RLA/NMB/PEB govern and allow what airline guys can strike in this industry. Anyone who keeps striking on their own will get properly fired. Dunno what government agencies/laws govern it there, and I assume it’s as corrupt and anti-labor as it is here, but for the sake of scab definitions let’s assume that avianca employees were ordered back to work and the strike was deemed illegal or over by the government, and the former pilots were terminated.

That said, regardless of the status of the strike, avianca can’t just bring in contract pilots to fly their planes. Delta couldn’t have non-delta pilots fly their planes if 3000 of them got fired overnight for striking, conducting a sick out, being drunk on duty (insert reason for firing here), etc. They’d have to hire 3,000 new delta pilots, put them through delta training, give them a delta ID badge and seniority list number. Ditto for avianca. If 3,000 contract guys temporarily flew their planes outside of the airline’s CBA, on non-union terms, that is the definition of a scab. Companies could do this all the time to save on labor costs, which is why it doesn’t happen often and why there is such a backlash to this occurrence. The only place i know of this happening at airlines with a contract is UPS, where they hire non-seniority list management pilots. But I assume their CBA allows it. If UPS pilots struck, they can’t just hire a bunch of contract pilots instead to replace them—they would be scabs. If this was a thing, can you imagine how easy it would be for management to whipsaw labor? This is why scope exists. It governs how much flying can be done by other contracted/non seniority list workers.

Flying struck work, ie boxes from one company being flown by another, is another story. The assumption in your scenario is that a strike is ongoing and legal. If a union has a legal strike and is released, their work is now struck work. Those boxes won’t move, except by scabs, until the strike is over. If delta pilots are on a strike, and United makes a deal to fly delta flights with their flight numbers and their metal—obviously that would be flying struck work. I don’t think that would happen. When delta pax cancel their flights (or their flights cancel), get their money back or get rebooked on United, the revenue then goes to United and they aren’t “struck work.” They made other travel provisions. I could be wrong on that, someone can shoot that down if that’s incorrect.

USMCFLYR
05-07-2018, 09:38 AM
My thumbs are getting a workout and I didnít bring my laptop...sorry if itís an incoherent reply. And Iím not an expert by any means on unions, so take what I say with a grain of salt. My delta example, and for the sake of relating it to avianca, is with the assumption that the strike is over/ruled illegal, with subsequently fired employees, based on the fact that the government ordered them back to work. If delta pilots struck, then the president ordered them back to work, or the strike was otherwise ruled illegal, I don't think the union/pilots have a choice...the RLA/NMB/PEB govern and allow what airline guys can strike in this industry. Anyone who keeps striking on their own will get properly fired. Dunno what government agencies/laws govern it there, and I assume itís as corrupt and anti-labor as it is here, but for the sake of scab definitions letís assume that avianca employees were ordered back to work and the strike was deemed illegal or over by the government, and the former pilots were terminated.

That said, regardless of the status of the strike, avianca canít just bring in contract pilots to fly their planes. Delta couldnít have non-delta pilots fly their planes if 3000 of them got fired overnight for striking, conducting a sick out, being drunk on duty (insert reason for firing here), etc. Theyíd have to hire 3,000 new delta pilots, put them through delta training, give them a delta ID badge and seniority list number. Ditto for avianca. If 3,000 contract guys temporarily flew their planes outside of the airlineís CBA, on non-union terms, that is the definition of a scab. Companies could do this all the time to save on labor costs, which is why it doesnít happen often and why there is such a backlash to this occurrence. The only place i know of this happening at airlines with a contract is UPS, where they hire non-seniority list management pilots. But I assume their CBA allows it. If UPS pilots struck, they canít just hire a bunch of contract pilots instead to replace themóthey would be scabs. If this was a thing, can you imagine how easy it would be for management to whipsaw labor? This is why scope exists. It governs how much flying can be done by other contracted/non seniority list workers.

Flying struck work, ie boxes from one company being flown by another, is another story. The assumption in your scenario is that a strike is ongoing and legal. If a union has a legal strike and is released, their work is now struck work. Those boxes wonít move, except by scabs, until the strike is over. If delta pilots are on a strike, and United makes a deal to fly delta flights with their flight numbers and their metalóobviously that would be flying struck work. I donít think that would happen. When delta pax cancel their flights (or their flights cancel), get their money back or get rebooked on United, the revenue then goes to United and they arenít ďstruck work.Ē They made other travel provisions. I could be wrong on that, someone can shoot that down if thatís incorrect.
Thanks - PM sent.

TCASTESTOK
05-14-2018, 01:39 PM
A great quote from Flying The Line vol 2 on how pilots should look at scabbing.
Every pilot considering crossing a picket line should be acquainted with the sad historical fate of scabs, and be reminded forcefully that airline managements change, and when they change, the new boss owes scabs nothing. The new management does, however, have to make a profit, which requires the cooperation of ALPA. As the scabs at United found out after the 1985 strike, management has always left them to their fate in the end. As every modern airline pilot capable of rational analysis knows, pilots are just numbers to management. Scab pilots, however, are embarrassing numbers.

Spin
05-15-2018, 10:09 AM
And what happened to United scabs after the 1985 strike?

TCASTESTOK
05-15-2018, 12:22 PM
And what happened to United scabs after the 1985 strike?
In the aftermath of the strike in 1993, all the 600 scabs that flew for United were immediately bumped down the seniority list by the "570" who in a court order were have found to have been denied their rightful seniority by United. The scabs were also social outcasts with their lack of a "battle star" lapel pin instantly outing them as scabs to other pilots.

baseball
05-17-2018, 01:38 AM
The guys in Colombia are scabs.
Let's get their names published!

Roundup
05-31-2018, 12:14 PM
They didn't cross a picket line. Careful redefining the meaning of scab. Pretty soon everybody is calling everybody else a scab (saw this in the regionals).

They are turds though, if that helps.

Sorry, your way too cute with your definition. Most of ALPA including the leadership scabbed after reagan fired the air traffic controllers. Since then I figure an ALPA picket line is just an invitation.

rickair7777
05-31-2018, 12:19 PM
Sorry, your way too cute with your definition. Most of ALPA including the leadership scabbed after reagan fired the air traffic controllers. Since then I figure an ALPA picket line is just an invitation.


??? I'm not aware that pilots and controllers ever honored each others strikes? Two very different crafts, controllers do more than just airline traffic.

Pilots and longshoremen don't honor each other's strikes either, despite both being in the transportation industry.

CBreezy
05-31-2018, 12:51 PM
??? I'm not aware that pilots and controllers ever honored each others strikes? Two very different crafts, controllers do more than just airline traffic.

Pilots and longshoremen don't honor each other's strikes either, despite both being in the transportation industry.

That would be funny.

Continental 152, ready to taxi.
Roger, Continental 152, hold position. Expected departure clearance time when you stop crossing the picket line.

captjns
05-31-2018, 02:00 PM
??? I'm not aware that pilots and controllers ever honored each others strikes? Two very different crafts, controllers do more than just airline traffic.

Pilots and longshoremen don't honor each other's strikes either, despite both being in the transportation industry.

How many ALPA carriers walked out in sympathy in Ď89 when EAL pilots walked out?:rolleyes:

sky jet
05-31-2018, 02:22 PM
How many ALPA carriers walked out in sympathy in Ď89 when EAL pilots walked out?:rolleyes:

Since I grew up in a multi-airline family I lived through a few strikes from the 60's to the 90's. Obviously the purpose of a strike was to deny management the revenue from the trips while still having to maintain the airline. The strategy also required that the other airlines continue flying to keep the government from forcing everyone back to work. If there were sympathy strikes POTUS would most likely issue an executive order forcing all pilots (and sympathetic others, ie. mechanics, FA's and others) back to work thus negating the power of the strike. Routes were controlled and granted or taken away by the CAB a politically appointed board. Cross them and they could shut down your airline or force a merger. It wasn't as simple or as cut and dried as you might suppose. Both Management and Labor walked a very narrow path.

Brainsurgeon
06-02-2018, 08:18 AM
But it was ok for the Delta pilots to pick up green slips en masse on extra sections covering EAL routes during the 1989 EAL strike.

ALPA. The hypocrite union.

badflaps
06-02-2018, 12:16 PM
But it was ok for the Delta pilots to pick up green slips en masse on extra sections covering EAL routes during the 1989 EAL strike.

ALPA. The hypocrite union.

I don't remember there being such a thing. :eek:

rickair7777
06-02-2018, 01:19 PM
But it was ok for the Delta pilots to pick up green slips en masse on extra sections covering EAL routes during the 1989 EAL strike.

ALPA. The hypocrite union.

Nothing wrong with that, unless it was EAL code share. The idea is to punish managers, not passengers.

GogglesPisano
06-02-2018, 01:21 PM
Nothing wrong with that, unless it was EAL code share. The idea is to punish managers, not passengers.

Itís amazing how many people donít get this.

BMEP100
06-02-2018, 01:41 PM
??? I'm not aware that pilots and controllers ever honored each others strikes? Two very different crafts, controllers do more than just airline traffic.

Pilots and longshoremen don't honor each other's strikes either, despite both being in the transportation industry.

That's right. It's not like ALPA pilots did somebody's job while they were on strike......ahem .......like they did with the FEIA.

badflaps
06-02-2018, 06:02 PM
That's right. It's not like ALPA pilots did somebody's job while they were on strike......ahem .......like they did with the FEIA.

I was in the sim with Ron Brown (FEIA) when he came back. Is there anybody still alive that remembers this stuff?

Brainsurgeon
06-03-2018, 08:31 AM
I don't remember there being such a thing. :eek:

My Uncle was a striking rEAL pilot and worked in the Atlanta strike center. They kept track of the extra sections.

Brainsurgeon
06-03-2018, 08:37 AM
Nothing wrong with that, unless it was EAL code share. The idea is to punish managers, not passengers.

Absolutely wrong and in fact no other MEC's authorized extra sections to be flown during the CAL and UAL strikes. Damn near put Lorenzo down too.

The EAL MEC specifically asked the Delta MEC to stop flying the extra Eastern sections. Denied. I specifically remember my uncle saying they knew they lost strike at that very moment. It gave the company time to hire scabs as well as keep the pseudo airline running.

Brainsurgeon
06-03-2018, 08:44 AM
That's right. It's not like ALPA pilots did somebody's job while they were on strike......ahem .......like they did with the FEIA.

Shhhhhhh! Don't expose those ALPA skeletons

GogglesPisano
06-03-2018, 11:12 AM
Absolutely wrong and in fact no other MEC's authorized extra sections to be flown during the CAL and UAL strikes. Damn near put Lorenzo down too.

The EAL MEC specifically asked the Delta MEC to stop flying the extra Eastern sections. Denied. I specifically remember my uncle saying they knew they lost strike at that very moment. It gave the company time to hire scabs as well as keep the pseudo airline running.

So you’re saying Delta flew extra sections during the Eastern strike, and gave that money to Eastern? Trying to understand this. The whole point is not to strand passengers, it’s to deny labor in order to hurt the struck carrier’s bottom line.

Baradium
06-03-2018, 12:31 PM
Absolutely wrong and in fact no other MEC's authorized extra sections to be flown during the CAL and UAL strikes. Damn near put Lorenzo down too.

The EAL MEC specifically asked the Delta MEC to stop flying the extra Eastern sections. Denied. I specifically remember my uncle saying they knew they lost strike at that very moment. It gave the company time to hire scabs as well as keep the pseudo airline running.

Airlines ran extra sections during the Spirit strike too and I don't recall discussion about that. The only flight that was considered a scab flight was a charter that carried a Spirit code. None of the other ones were Spirit flights or otherwise benefited them.

badflaps
06-03-2018, 01:17 PM
My Uncle was a striking rEAL pilot and worked in the Atlanta strike center. They kept track of the extra sections.
Sure, but they were covered by reserves, nobody made money off of EAL. I paid in over $1000. to the strike fund. Nobody wins those things.



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