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View Full Version : MIA love mail


Arado 234
05-01-2018, 04:46 AM
A Cultural Problem at APA?

By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.

After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.

Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.

A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.

In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.

There is a saying that a “a company gets the union it deserves”, and there can be no better evidence of the wisdom in this saying than the contentious relationship between AA and APA. However, our contentious relationship with our employer has unfortunately not resulted in unifying us at APA, but rather, in dividing us. Witnessing the result of the company’s rotten cultural core has not made us better, stronger or more unified. It has not given us the resolve we need to keep our house in order. Rather, we seem to be increasingly fractured and divided.

The mass defections from our committee volunteers at APA is the most recent sign that all is not well with the workplace culture of our union and that the environment is so bad at APA that our own volunteers no longer desire to contribute their time or talent to the organization. When our union President goes over the Training Committee Chairman’s head to fire a committee member for making a C&R post critical of the President’s unprecedented actions in withholding a pending resolution from being posted, a resolution that is critical of the President’s spending habits, all is not well.

When committee chairmen who dared have differences of opinion with our President are shown the exit or made so increasingly uncomfortable in their workplace environment that they see no choice but to resign, such as our former Chairman of Contract Compliance and 13 others, or the fact that our Aeromedical Chairman now walks the halls of APA office-less due to his prior disagreements with the President, there is a problem. How many more volunteers or employees are there that have not succumbed to the President’s efforts to stack the house with cronies and are now ready to leave? Who will replace them?

When a President utilizes tens of thousands of dollars of his members dues money to pursue courses of action that weren’t deliberated on or approved by the board or aren’t part of a cohesive strategy or coherent plan such as his $63,000.00 contributions to the Irish Airline Pilots for newspaper ads or multiple unprecedented charitable contributions that weren’t run by the board (and although not required, really SHOULD have been run by the board or at least been a part of some cohesive charitable strategy), there is a problem in the building. When a President goes over the heads of his committee chairman without notice to utilize their budget money for his own personal agenda, there is a problem.

When our President changes the course of action directed by the board of directors and approved after long budget deliberations and contentious closed-door debate without requesting the approval of the board or generating a consensus as to why a change is necessary, we have a problem in the building.

Witness the President’s decision to stand-down all Family Awareness Committee activities and then raid the budget of that chairman without prior notice or justification for his actions. Some of the money was given to the Avianca pilots during their strike, a noble gesture, but once again, unapproved and not what the money was intended for. After protest from the board he finally reinstated several of those activities, including the concourse meetings, where he handed out cards with an agenda the board had not reviewed nor was part of a cohesive well-defined strategy that was deliberated on and approved by the organization. Yet another indication we have a problem in the building.

When a President asks for board approval of an FRMS document that formally allows the Section 21 discipline process to enter into our fatigue agreements, substitutes formal Pro-Standards involvement for Pro-Standards “trained” personnel thus putting our pilots who utilize fatigue one step closer to formal discipline, and denies our members specific protections delineated in Section 15K of the contract and justifies his actions by stating “they are already doing it”, thus attempting to codify the company’s non-compliance instead of forcing the company’s compliance with our contract and our agreements, we have a problem with the leadership at our union.

When a President, flanked by his personal $600,000.00+ per year lawyer whose sole reason for existence seems to be to justify the President’s actions, “sells back” dozens and dozens of member grievances protesting scheduling violations of the contract and then agrees to “hold in abeyance” fourteen important Presidential grievances representing possibly hundreds of additional violations of these same scheduling practices which safeguard our members’ quality of life instead of holding the line, insisting on the arbitration of these grievances, and thus fortifying the grievance process, (one of the only ways we have left under the RLA of enforcing our contract), we have a problem. Even if only a few of these grievances succeeded, we would have improved the quality of scheduling life of our members and set a precedent that dissuades the company from violating our contract in the future.

The problem with most of these actions is that although they are not right, by our constitution and bylaws, they are allowed. Section VII A. states the “While the President’s actions are subject to review by the board of directors, the President’s actions shall be presumed valid unless the Board of Directors elects to review and disapprove a particular action taken by the President.” This sets up a cumbersome process whereby any actions of the President that are questionable must be “disapproved” by the Board of Directors instead of “approved”. The C&B and policy manual cannot dictate every allowable action by the President, and with $600,000.00+ worth of legal muscle to justify the President’s every move and a multi-million-dollar PR firm at his disposal to “spin” his actions, APA’s President is given unprecedented latitude.

With Section VI looming over the horizon and our future pay and benefits agreement up for negotiations by this same union that seems so inept and rudderless at this critical point in time, action is required to impel APA to get its house in order. It is never too late. We must insist that the President use leadership skills instead of force and cronyism to direct APA. We must insist on strict adherence to our financial safeguards. We must insist on strict adherence to our governing documents by our President and bring to light any evidence of violations of the spirit and intent of these safeguards in the hopes that the questionable behavior will stop.

I fully expect the President to retaliate for this Blast and put the full weight of his PR machine behind discrediting me and this message instead of working to unify our union and direct and focus its actions towards company compliance with our current contract, obtaining a better contract in 2019 and ensuring a better quality of life for all of our members, not only the ones who have triple digit seniority numbers. I would ask that every member of this union also demand accountability from each of its elected representatives.

President Carey is scheduled to attend the Miami domicile meeting this Wednesday at Dave and Buster’s in Hollywood, Florida. Please plan on attending and ask the President face-to-face if we can expect a change in culture at APA or if instead of strengthening our union his ultimate plan is to set it adrift and convert it to ALPA in the hopes of securing the Presidency of that organization.

Sincerely,

Ed Sicher

MIA Vice


Al Czervik
05-01-2018, 04:51 AM
Could not agree more. Tides are changing. I hate to say it but the younger/newer pilots here aren’t going to put up with this anymore. The DFW election was the bow shot to APA. We are paying attention.

Arado 234
05-01-2018, 05:08 AM
Could not agree more. Tides are changing. I hate to say it but the younger/newer pilots here aren’t going to put up with this anymore. The DFW election was the bow shot to APA. We are paying attention.

Rumor has it that Ed is ready to throw the towel. We need more guys like him.


Sliceback
05-01-2018, 05:12 AM
Could not agree more. Tides are changing. I hate to say it but the younger/newer pilots here aren’t going to put up with this anymore. The DFW election was the bow shot to APA. We are paying attention.

Al - the DFW election removed a guy who was perhaps the biggest opponent to the president’s actions and replaced him with a guy who had the president as his biggest supporter and who’s defended the president’s actions.

The younger pilots, perhaps unwittingly, strengthened the president’s position.

It looks like the PR spin might have worked.

Sliceback
05-01-2018, 05:15 AM
Rumor has it that Ed is ready to throw the towel. We need more guys like him.

The BOD majority supports the president’s actions. They havn't reined him in. We went through this in 2008-2011(+/-). But back then the BOD fought back.

As a BOD rep, perhaps minority member, said in open early this month “now the members are seeing what we’ve been dealing with for the last year.”

EMBFlyer
05-01-2018, 10:10 AM
Al - the DFW election removed a guy who was perhaps the biggest opponent to the president’s actions and replaced him with a guy who had the president as his biggest supporter and who’s defended the president’s actions.

The younger pilots, perhaps unwittingly, strengthened the president’s position.

It looks like the PR spin might have worked.

Yeah, that's it. No chance it was because that the former chairman only cared about senior pilots and believed that junior pilots should just shut up and color and that their issues didn't matter. No chance at all that was the reason. :rolleyes:

Al Czervik
05-01-2018, 06:28 PM
Al - the DFW election removed a guy who was perhaps the biggest opponent to the president’s actions and replaced him with a guy who had the president as his biggest supporter and who’s defended the president’s actions.

The younger pilots, perhaps unwittingly, strengthened the president’s position.

It looks like the PR spin might have worked.

We’re gonna throw all of them out Slice. All you have to do is watch.

FLPS30GRDWN
05-01-2018, 09:04 PM
Al - the DFW election removed a guy who was perhaps the biggest opponent to the president’s actions and replaced him with a guy who had the president as his biggest supporter and who’s defended the president’s actions.



The younger pilots, perhaps unwittingly, strengthened the president’s position.



It looks like the PR spin might have worked.



Perhaps it was wittingly done.

Sliceback
05-02-2018, 05:34 AM
We’re gonna throw all of them out Slice. All you have to do is watch.

You won’t catch me crying. We cleaned house starting in 1988(?) and took control in 1991(?). This time is worse. But the transfer of ginttil will happen regardless due to retirements. Will the new hires actually start punching before retirements hand them control? Or will they identify effective leaders and advance them before retirements hands them control on a platter? The battles back in the late 1980’s were epic. You’d have about 1/3 of the base (50% of the guys off) at some domicile meetings. The chairman and VC would be in opposing camps.

I think the PHL (?) election has four FO’s listed. I’d vote for anyone who has no APA service and who isn’t endorsed/supported by the current reps. We might end up with some bums but over time the ship will right itself.

Sliceback
05-02-2018, 05:37 AM
Perhaps it was wittingly done.

I doubt that. The overwhelming majority of guys I know have no clue what’s going on inside APA. The DCA chairman and MIA VC have, finally, presented the issues to their bases.

Buzzlightyear
05-02-2018, 11:37 AM
I will echo Slice’s comment.......strongly consider voting for someone with no prior APA service record along with no endorsements from current leadership. Take back the BOD, then reign in the powers that be or remove them if needed.

Arado 234
05-02-2018, 11:52 AM
I doubt that. The overwhelming majority of guys I know have no clue what’s going on inside APA. The DCA chairman and MIA VC have, finally, presented the issues to their bases.

aa73, what are your thoughts on this?

Al Czervik
05-02-2018, 11:54 AM
I will echo Slice’s comment.......strongly consider voting for someone with no prior APA service record along with no endorsements from current leadership. Take back the BOD, then reign in the powers that be or remove them if needed.

This......

Sliceback
05-02-2018, 03:02 PM
That is how the late 80’s went. The Old Guard wasn’t happy about the Killer B’s taking control. Check out the early 1990’s BOD votes(available on APA website) “division of the house”, “yes 5,112, no 5,043, the motion carries.” Vote after vote after vote (made up totals but reality was similar).

aa73
05-02-2018, 06:33 PM
aa73, what are your thoughts on this?

I don’t give a hoot. I’m sick of all the APA political BS and would rather see it implode in a cloud of dust. It’s long past time to deep six APA and switch to ALPA with completely new leadership.

Saabs
05-02-2018, 07:23 PM
That is how the late 80’s went. The Old Guard wasn’t happy about the Killer B’s taking control. Check out the early 1990’s BOD votes(available on APA website) “division of the house”, “yes 5,112, no 5,043, the motion carries.” Vote after vote after vote (made up totals but reality was similar).
Give us a history lesson on the killer b’s por favor

Sliceback
05-02-2018, 09:11 PM
It was just the natural shift of 100% A scalers and zero B scalers in 1984 to the bases starting to elect B scalers in 1989??

Rapid growth created a big B scale group as a percentage of the overall pilot group. Hiring per year, at its peak, was approx 20% of the pilot group. Retirements were 2-3%?? Now hiring is about 5% with an additional 4% retiring. In a couple years it will be 7% + 8%.

Comparing today’s hiring cycle vs the 1980’s after four yrs the hand writing was on the wall and control of bases was slipping from the A scale/Old Guard’s hands. In six yrs, by 1991(?), the power transfer was mostly(?) complete.

Years mentioned are an estimate. I’ve got the data but it’s not at hand. You can check APA BOD minutes to see when the A scalers, or at least the Old Guard A scalers, were replaced.

mainlineAF
05-03-2018, 05:10 AM
Slice what are your thoughts on the 4th quarter schedule changes?

Sliceback
05-03-2018, 08:24 AM
mainline - no expertise. Some interesting stuff - LHR slots are fixed - transfering a MIA slot to DFW. Junior base gets more senior, senior base gets a bit more junior.

Hard to tell about the Caribbean flying. That might be the standard seasonal ramp up.

ORD-PEK cx is disappointing. Losing a four man Asia trip is never good. But it’s a business and not a social club. Hopefully we need, and can feed, PEK from a different city. Perhaps LAX or PHL?

FlyyGuyy
05-03-2018, 10:13 AM
mainline - no expertise. Some interesting stuff - LHR slots are fixed - transfering a MIA slot to DFW. Junior base gets more senior, senior base gets a bit more junior.

Hard to tell about the Caribbean flying. That might be the standard seasonal ramp up.

ORD-PEK cx is disappointing. Losing a four man Asia trip is never good. But it’s a business and not a social club. Hopefully we need, and can feed, PEK from a different city. Perhaps LAX or PHL?

The runway extension in Philly looks like it'll be 13k long. Maybe they needed a longer shot to make it work?

TrinityDawn
05-04-2018, 08:39 AM
I don’t give a hoot. I’m sick of all the APA political BS and would rather see it implode in a cloud of dust. It’s long past time to deep six APA and switch to ALPA with completely new leadership.

Having just come from spending 12 years under an ALPA that had no interest in representing OUR interests since we were just the little fish, and didn’t just ignore, but helped to cover up and hush the Eagle MEC’s abuse of their fiduciary duties by spending thousands of our dues money on their alcohol habits, I have absolutely no desire to be a part of ALPA again. At least the APA only represents American pilots, which means at least theoretically it should be easier to get fellow members to be motivated to want to clean house.

aa73
05-04-2018, 11:11 AM
Regional ALPA = whole different union than Legacy ALPA. You can’t compare them.

Using your logic, then by extension, UAL, DAL and Fedex should have really crappy contracts since ALPA represents them too. They don’t.

Legacy ALPA will always dedicate the bulk of its resources to keeping the legacies at the top of the pyramid. Always been that way (except during global crisises causing airlines to file Ch11 BK, during which no union can negotiate anything good.) Regional and LCCs tend to get the scraps. Just the nature of the beast.

APA may only represent American pilots but boy do they royally screw it up. We have had nothing but sub standard contracts SINCE 1963. APA has been completely ineffective and irrelevant for DECADES, and management knows (and loves) it.

Even though it’s somewhat correct to note that a union is only as powerful as its membership, that does not tell the whole story. APA’s structure, governance, elections and BOD structure completely hamstrings and takes the membership out of the loop. Which renders the membership ineffective and apathetic. All of this combines to severely limit our chances at an industry leading contract... which has never happened at APA in over 50 years!

AAL Pilots back in ALPA would be an awesome force in the industry. As ALPA’s largest pilot group, we’d have the most influence too. The membership would become reinvigorated more motivated. And finally, management would be forced to significantly step up its negotiating stance dealing with a much more powerful union, no more Easy Street dealing with a weak in house union. It’s a win/win.

Not sure how long you’ve been on the property but APA has had numerous chances to “clean house” with the same disastrous results: new leadership comes in, only to be torn apart by the 22-member BOD that specializes in fighting against each other, which management then drives a wedge through. Same old song and dance since 1963.

APA is broken beyond repair. Put a bullet in its head and lets start anew with ALPA.

mainlineAF
05-04-2018, 01:57 PM
Having just come from spending 12 years under an ALPA that had no interest in representing OUR interests since we were just the little fish, and didn’t just ignore, but helped to cover up and hush the Eagle MEC’s abuse of their fiduciary duties by spending thousands of our dues money on their alcohol habits, I have absolutely no desire to be a part of ALPA again. At least the APA only represents American pilots, which means at least theoretically it should be easier to get fellow members to be motivated to want to clean house.



Regional ALPA doesn’t count.

Regionalsuck
05-04-2018, 02:45 PM
Regional ALPA doesn’t count.

It certainly counts to those of us that paid thousands of dollars to that useless association for over a decade. :rolleyes:

ALPA grass isn't any greener, it's just a different (more expensive) shade of brown.

aa73
05-04-2018, 03:04 PM
Not as brown as APA’s grass!

Sliceback
05-04-2018, 04:24 PM
I will echo Slice’s comment.......strongly consider voting for someone with no prior APA service record along with no endorsements from current leadership. Take back the BOD, then reign in the powers that be or remove them if needed.

CLT has 8% of the base vote in the VC election. 117 voters out of 1500+. Top three candidates left. Top candidate had 77 votes(5% of the base).

A focused group of new hires has a great opportunity to identify a young/new hire? candidate and start the transition to taking over APA. It just takes some effort to contact the pilots you know and convince them to actually vote for your choice.

The flip side is if you think the top candidate(s) is/are knuckle heads it's time to vote and avoid having less than 10% of a base decide who will represent you.

TrinityDawn
05-05-2018, 01:17 AM
Regional ALPA = whole different union than Legacy ALPA. You can’t compare them.

Using your logic, then by extension, UAL, DAL and Fedex should have really crappy contracts since ALPA represents them too. They don’t.

No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I didn’t type out all my thoughts earlier because I didn’t have time, but I will try to do so now.

The fact that the “majors” represented by ALPA have achieved reasonably good contracts, while the regionals represented by ALPA have been practically ignored the past 10-15 years with severe QOL and pay problems is but one example of how ALPA has been corrupted as a union and “represents” some pilots more equally than others. One of the main reasons for a union IMHO is to set a minimum level of compensation and QOL in an industry for the benefit of all, so the argument that somehow regional and legacy ALPA are different doesn’t fly with me. We do the exact same job with different numbers of people, where pay could be negotiated based on something like ASM’s generated or similar metric if ALPA had any real interest in setting a bar.

Legacy ALPA will always dedicate the bulk of its resources to keeping the legacies at the top of the pyramid. Always been that way (except during global crisises causing airlines to file Ch11 BK, during which no union can negotiate anything good.) Regional and LCCs tend to get the scraps. Just the nature of the beast.

No, it’s because the union dues from the fat United and Fedex captain paychecks are what pays for the $5,000 margarita machine in Herndon. It’s because as an organization, these people have become so entrenched in this unchecked money pit (just like the APA apparently) that all they want to do is keep their party going. I refuse to accept that kind of corruption as normal and acceptable behavior because that’s always been “the nature of the beast.”

In short, the current leadership of ALPA have no guiding principles of unionism leading them any more. Several years ago, when management offered us new CRJ-900’s if we took consessions for them, we politely told them to take a hike. Shortly thereafter, they offered PSA, another wholly owned and fellow ALPA carrier, the same deal to which their MEC signed on the dotted line. Many of us were furious at the blatant whipsawing and apparent endorsement of the management tactic when ALPA national signed off on the deal, and had some heated questions for the ALPA president when he visited Euless. When asked how he could possibly support one ALPA carrier blatantly undercutting another, his answer was “because it was a contract improvement for them.” Seriously! Instead of ALPA national taking their MEC into receivership (for which there is precedent) and forcing them to follow the written ALPA bylaws that specifically forbid this type of thing, they just happily signed off on the deal. I’m sorry but I have zero faith in the political leaders of ALPA doing ANYTHING of it doesn’t benefit themselves personally in one way or another.

APA may only represent American pilots but boy do they royally screw it up. We have had nothing but sub standard contracts SINCE 1963. APA has been completely ineffective and irrelevant for DECADES, and management knows (and loves) it.

I would submit that it’s still easier to replace APA with an entirely new self contained union, then try to vote some United captain out of office in ALPA (and succeed.) But that’s just my opinion.

AAL Pilots back in ALPA would be an awesome force in the industry. As ALPA’s largest pilot group, we’d have the most influence too. The membership would become reinvigorated more motivated. And finally, management would be forced to significantly step up its negotiating stance dealing with a much more powerful union, no more Easy Street dealing with a weak in house union. It’s a win/win.

Based on my experience with ALPA, I see that as pie in the sky, wishful thinking.

Not sure how long you’ve been on the property...

APA is broken beyond repair. Put a bullet in its head and lets start anew with ALPA.

Not long. But I’ve dealt with ALPA enough to know that THEY aren’t the solution we should be looking for as far as I’m concerned.

mainlineAF
05-05-2018, 03:21 AM
No, that’s not what I’m saying at all. I didn’t type out all my thoughts earlier because I didn’t have time, but I will try to do so now.



The fact that the “majors” represented by ALPA have achieved reasonably good contracts, while the regionals represented by ALPA have been practically ignored the past 10-15 years with severe QOL and pay problems is but one example of how ALPA has been corrupted as a union and “represents” some pilots more equally than others. One of the main reasons for a union IMHO is to set a minimum level of compensation and QOL in an industry for the benefit of all, so the argument that somehow regional and legacy ALPA are different doesn’t fly with me. We do the exact same job with different numbers of people, where pay could be negotiated based on something like ASM’s generated or similar metric if ALPA had any real interest in setting a bar.







No, it’s because the union dues from the fat United and Fedex captain paychecks are what pays for the $5,000 margarita machine in Herndon. It’s because as an organization, these people have become so entrenched in this unchecked money pit (just like the APA apparently) that all they want to do is keep their party going. I refuse to accept that kind of corruption as normal and acceptable behavior because that’s always been “the nature of the beast.”



In short, the current leadership of ALPA have no guiding principles of unionism leading them any more. Several years ago, when management offered us new CRJ-900’s if we took consessions for them, we politely told them to take a hike. Shortly thereafter, they offered PSA, another wholly owned and fellow ALPA carrier, the same deal to which their MEC signed on the dotted line. Many of us were furious at the blatant whipsawing and apparent endorsement of the management tactic when ALPA national signed off on the deal, and had some heated questions for the ALPA president when he visited Euless. When asked how he could possibly support one ALPA carrier blatantly undercutting another, his answer was “because it was a contract improvement for them.” Seriously! Instead of ALPA national taking their MEC into receivership (for which there is precedent) and forcing them to follow the written ALPA bylaws that specifically forbid this type of thing, they just happily signed off on the deal. I’m sorry but I have zero faith in the political leaders of ALPA doing ANYTHING of it doesn’t benefit themselves personally in one way or another.







I would submit that it’s still easier to replace APA with an entirely new self contained union, then try to vote some United captain out of office in ALPA (and succeed.) But that’s just my opinion.







Based on my experience with ALPA, I see that as pie in the sky, wishful thinking.







Not long. But I’ve dealt with ALPA enough to know that THEY aren’t the solution we should be looking for as far as I’m concerned.



The regionals are an entry level professional flying job. They’re the farm teams. Everyone knows that going in. They will never pay as much as the majors. If they did they wouldn’t exist.

TrinityDawn
05-05-2018, 09:36 AM
The regionals are an entry level professional flying job. They’re the farm teams. Everyone knows that going in. They will never pay as much as the majors. If they did they wouldn’t exist.

With all due respect, that is a management created paradigm solely for the purpose of lower labor costs and getting around the contracts they have with the mainline labor groups. The regionals shouldn't exist. The biggest mistake ALPA/APA/etc ever made was to allow relaxation of scope. Today, something like 40-50% of American Airlines daily departures aren't done by pilots on the American Airlines seniority list! If people want to discuss reduced bargaining leverage with management, there's half your problem. Years ago, APA put out a video about regional flying, and one line from that video was: "every time I see a regional jet depart, I see one less job for our pilots." That statement was spot on.

By all accounts, AAG is currently at scope limits, but has told Embraer they are interested in the 175-E2's, which are certified over the MTOW allowed by scope. Rumor has it the company has asked Embraer to make design changes to THEIR E2's to work within scope. We're talking about an aircraft that is almost the equivalent of an F100. How long are we going to allow these games to go on, and have mainline wages eroded to a smaller and smaller group of pilots? Or is it yet another case of the senior pilots saying "I've got mine finally, to hell with everyone else"?

jcountry
05-05-2018, 02:53 PM
Al - the DFW election removed a guy who was perhaps the biggest opponent to the president’s actions and replaced him with a guy who had the president as his biggest supporter and who’s defended the president’s actions.

The younger pilots, perhaps unwittingly, strengthened the president’s position.

It looks like the PR spin might have worked.

Regardless of who’s support the actions of anyone, TW needed kicking out. I’d be pleased if he never was elected to anything again. He strove to screw anyone not named TW from the time he woke up til the time he went nite nite every single day.

jcountry
05-05-2018, 02:55 PM
We’re gonna throw all of them out Slice. All you have to do is watch.

Yep.

Carey is next.

He can kiss my ass. Anyone who has low enough moral character to imagine that my dues should pay for his spouse’s world tour is done.

The fact the such a low% of our pilots pay attention and participate in these elections means that those of us who do wield enormous power. Tommy Boy found that out the hard way. Dan better spend like a drunken sailor while he can. His vote is coming.

Just give me that ballot.

A330FoodCritic
05-05-2018, 02:59 PM
Yep.

Carey is next.

He can kiss my ass. Anyone who has low enough moral character to imagine that my dues should pay for his spouse’s world tour is done.

Just give me that ballot.

I find it amazing there are people who actually defend carey's expenditures.

jcountry
05-05-2018, 04:07 PM
I find it amazing there are people who actually defend carey's expenditures.

Shows how broken the union is......

Fun part is, the old, stupid bastards behind that crap have no idea what’s coming. They are used to the vast majority of their members not giving half a rat’s ass. The newer generation will put up with 0.00% of that crap. We communicate, and we vote.

Carey’s gonna wish he had been more careful. The thug guido mentality he is trying to run stuff with is very unappealing to us. We got something for his ass..... It’s called a ballot box. Guys with 30 years never figured it out, but we know what it’s for.... Just ask our boy TW.

Al Czervik
05-06-2018, 01:26 PM
Yep.

Carey is next.

He can kiss my ass. Anyone who has low enough moral character to imagine that my dues should pay for his spouse’s world tour is done.

The fact the such a low% of our pilots pay attention and participate in these elections means that those of us who do wield enormous power. Tommy Boy found that out the hard way. Dan better spend like a drunken sailor while he can. His vote is coming.

Just give me that ballot.

Carey is next.

Varks
05-06-2018, 06:04 PM
Thug mentality is exactly what it is. When Dan was running for office I made a general statement on CnR about the Campaign. It was not intended toward anyone. It did not mention his name or anyone else’s. I meant no disrespect to him or other candidates. The next morning I received a phone call from Candidate DC telling me to call him back and we need to talk. Very New York like and not what I wanted to here. It was threatening, derogatory, demeaning,and intimidating. I see the good in people and chalked it up as him perceiving me as a threat. I often come across not as I intend. Some times in person and very often when I type on these message boards. I have never met Dan and can admit he has done some good things as APA President but if all this spending, pay, and authority abuse is true then he should be gone.

Arado 234
05-07-2018, 08:19 AM
Yep.

Carey is next.

He can kiss my ass. Anyone who has low enough moral character to imagine that my dues should pay for his spouse’s world tour is done.

The fact the such a low% of our pilots pay attention and participate in these elections means that those of us who do wield enormous power. Tommy Boy found that out the hard way. Dan better spend like a drunken sailor while he can. His vote is coming.

Just give me that ballot.

Seriously?

Revoke his perks NOW! Let's start with his unlimited A1 passes!

This is what's wrong with APA. It reminds me of George Orwell's "Animal Farm".

Reform APA now!

Al Czervik
05-07-2018, 01:17 PM
Seriously?

Revoke his perks NOW! Let's start with his unlimited A1 passes!

This is what's wrong with APA. It reminds me of George Orwell's "Animal Farm".

Reform APA now!

I think you mean Animal House.