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iahflyr
05-03-2018, 07:01 AM
How many total EMB-175’s does AA have and how many total CRJ-900’s? What is their maximum for scope?


American Airlines Group Inc. split a $1.4 billion order of regional jets between Bombardier Inc. and Embraer SA, extending a push to update its short-range fleet.

The world’s largest carrier is buying 15 Bombardier CRJ900 planes and 15 Embraer E-175 jets, according to a regulatory filing Thursday. American also took options for 15 more aircraft from each manufacturer.

The purchase boosts American’s shift to bigger regional jets with room for two passenger classes, which better match the offerings of the airline’s larger single-aisle planes. American has also reduced the number of aircraft in the fleet that are smaller than the new ones it’s buying from Bombardier and Embraer.

The CRJ900 planes will be operated by regional affiliate PSA Airlines with the Embraer E-175 jets going to Envoy Air, American said. Deliveries of both aircraft types will begin next year.

American has added about 200 dual-class regional jets over the past four years. At the end of last year, the Fort Worth, Texas-based carrier had 118 of Bombardier’s CRJ900 aircraft operated by regional affiliates PSA and Mesa airlines. It had 148 of Embraer’s E-175 planes in operation at Republic, Envoy and Compass.

Bombardier and Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil-based Embraer are pushing replacements for the aging regional jets in U.S. fleets. According to a market forecast released last year by Montreal-based Bombardier, North American airlines will need to retire about 2,100 aircraft of 150 seats or fewer by 2036. Forty percent of the current fleet is at least 15 years old, Bombardier said.

The CRJ900 order has a list value of about $719 million before customary discounts, Bombardier said in a statement. The E-175 deal is valued at about $705 million based on list prices, Embraer said.


CaptJackSparrow
05-03-2018, 08:42 AM
How is PSA getting more CRJs when they can't even staff the 700s we are sending/ supposed to be sending to them?

Also based on the email we got earlier today, scope was one of my biggest question marks. Per the email it sounds like they are retiring the 145s on our side in exchange for 175s. How is this possible given scope language?

Newstick189
05-03-2018, 08:43 AM
How is PSA getting more CRJs when they can't even staff the 700s we are sending/ supposed to be sending to them?

Also based on the email we got earlier today, scope was one of my biggest question marks. Per the email it sounds like they are retiring the 145s on our side in exchange for 175s. How is this possible given scope language?


IIRC, the scope is nearly maxed on all size RJ's, but 51-76 seat jets aren't maxed yet. So, therefore they can retire the 50 seaters and replace them with 175/900's.

The number is 30 seat plus RJ cannot exceed 75% of the narrowbody fleet, whereas 51+ seaters cannot exceed 40% of the narrowbody fleet. Something to this effect don't quote me on the hard numbers.


chrisreedrules
05-03-2018, 08:47 AM
I have also heard from a pretty reliable source (AA management pilot) that AA is quietly looking into a large Group 1 aircraft order and that the additional 319s are a stop-gap for now. The biggest issue that AA is facing is training capacity at the moment as far as bringing on a new fleet type is concerned. I don’t know how that would affect their scope for 76 seat RJs...

zondaracer
05-03-2018, 09:01 AM
31-76 seat max 75% of mainline narrowbody fleet.

66-76 seat max 40% of mainline narrowbody fleet.

Newstick189
05-03-2018, 09:34 AM
31-76 seat max 75% of mainline narrowbody fleet.

66-76 seat max 40% of mainline narrowbody fleet.

Thank you, that's what I was thinking!

E175 Driver
05-03-2018, 09:45 AM
How many total EMB-175’s does AA have and how many total CRJ-900’s? What is their maximum for scope?


American Airlines Group Inc. split a $1.4 billion order of regional jets between Bombardier Inc. and Embraer SA, extending a push to update its short-range fleet.

The world’s largest carrier is buying 15 Bombardier CRJ900 planes and 15 Embraer E-175 jets, according to a regulatory filing Thursday. American also took options for 15 more aircraft from each manufacturer.

The purchase boosts American’s shift to bigger regional jets with room for two passenger classes, which better match the offerings of the airline’s larger single-aisle planes. American has also reduced the number of aircraft in the fleet that are smaller than the new ones it’s buying from Bombardier and Embraer.

The CRJ900 planes will be operated by regional affiliate PSA Airlines with the Embraer E-175 jets going to Envoy Air, American said. Deliveries of both aircraft types will begin next year.

American has added about 200 dual-class regional jets over the past four years. At the end of last year, the Fort Worth, Texas-based carrier had 118 of Bombardier’s CRJ900 aircraft operated by regional affiliates PSA and Mesa airlines. It had 148 of Embraer’s E-175 planes in operation at Republic, Envoy and Compass.

Bombardier and Sao Jose dos Campos, Brazil-based Embraer are pushing replacements for the aging regional jets in U.S. fleets. According to a market forecast released last year by Montreal-based Bombardier, North American airlines will need to retire about 2,100 aircraft of 150 seats or fewer by 2036. Forty percent of the current fleet is at least 15 years old, Bombardier said.

The CRJ900 order has a list value of about $719 million before customary discounts, Bombardier said in a statement. The E-175 deal is valued at about $705 million based on list prices, Embraer said.

Excellent News!

zondaracer
05-03-2018, 09:57 AM
Thank you, that's what I was thinking!

No problem. Delta and United have mirrored their scope in many ways and AA is a little different. The Envoy and PSA CRJ700s are configured with 63/65 seats to qualify for the smaller jet scope. Do some of those have a forward lav? It would be nice to have.

Dynasty22
05-03-2018, 11:38 AM
No problem. Delta and United have mirrored their scope in many ways and AA is a little different. The Envoy and PSA CRJ700s are configured with 63/65 seats to qualify for the smaller jet scope. Do some of those have a forward lav? It would be nice to have.

No forward lav. Although it would be nice to turn the non-NG model 700s cabin like the later ones with the larger aft lav and overhead bins like the Delta 700s.

MacrossJet
05-04-2018, 01:05 AM
I have also heard from a pretty reliable source (AA management pilot) that AA is quietly looking into a large Group 1 aircraft order and that the additional 319s are a stop-gap for now. The biggest issue that AA is facing is training capacity at the moment as far as bringing on a new fleet type is concerned. I don’t know how that would affect their scope for 76 seat RJs...

I don't speak AA. What is considered a Group 1 jet?

Bigpimppilot
05-04-2018, 02:25 AM
E-190 or comparable. 175s would qualify too

Seaplane
05-04-2018, 03:32 AM
E-190 or comparable. 175s would qualify too

Would they have to add more seats to the 175 to make it qualify?

chrisreedrules
05-04-2018, 03:34 AM
E-190 or comparable. 175s would qualify too

I’m not sure the 175 qualifies as a Group 1 aircraft as it pertains to mainline...

E175 Driver
05-04-2018, 04:13 AM
I would consider the E175 a mini B737.

AZPilotMike
05-04-2018, 05:08 AM
I would consider the E175 a mini B737.

You never fail to get a laugh out of me, thats for sure. Funny.

E175 Driver
05-04-2018, 05:57 AM
You never fail to get a laugh out of me, thats for sure. Funny.

Whats so funny? You can't tell the difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTHV8opEHnA

griff312
05-04-2018, 06:02 AM
Group 1 would be E190, C-Series, and maybe A319 (not sure on the last one though).

CaptJackSparrow
05-04-2018, 06:29 AM
Group 1 would be E190, C-Series, and maybe A319 (not sure on the last one though).

Airbus is group 2, the 190 is the only group 1 aircraft that AA has

griff312
05-04-2018, 06:32 AM
Airbus is group 2, the 190 is the only group 1 aircraft that AA has

Right On. I wonder if AA will look at the C-Series? I know it would **** Boeing off!

CaptJackSparrow
05-04-2018, 06:46 AM
Right On. I wonder if AA will look at the C-Series? I know it would **** Boeing off!

I doubt it. From the last state of the airline meeting it sounded like AA wants to simply its fleet. Parker said they wanted to get rid of the 767 as fast as they can and now that they terminated the 350 deal to bring in more 787s to replace the 767, 330 and some 777s it sounds like thats certainly the case. My feeling is that they don't want to bring in another completely different plane like the C series to diversify the fleet any further.

NoValueAviator
05-04-2018, 08:04 AM
I hope I have time to get off the 145 ship (upgrade into 175) before it sinks fully.

AZFlyer
05-04-2018, 09:28 AM
The C series is an "Airbus" now. Perfect for fleet commonality! :D;)

Theaveragejoker
05-04-2018, 11:08 AM
I've always thought it would be 195e2's otherwise I'd expect mainline to sell their 190 sim in the next few months.

TransWorld
05-04-2018, 11:50 AM
Airbus is group 2, the 190 is the only group 1 aircraft that AA has

Spot on. My guess is if AA buys CS100s or CS300s, (A210 and A230, it is rumored), they will be designated Group 1 as well.

SilentLurker
05-04-2018, 01:15 PM
Spot on. My guess is if AA buys CS100s or CS300s, (A210 and A230, it is rumored), they will be designated Group 1 as well.


From what I read I think AA will keep Group 1 and utilize new Embraer E2 (195’s) or Airbus A210/230 C series.

lavMan
05-04-2018, 01:36 PM
From what I read I think AA will keep Group 1 and utilize new Embraer E2 (195’s) or Airbus A210/230 C series.

Doubt it. The training costs of the 190 have to be through the roof. No one stays in the right seat of the that thing. As soon as they can bid off they do.(6 month lock for NH’s) and no one bids from bus or 73 to the 190. CA’s bid off a lot too. Group 2 FO is the same as CA group 1. Why not make the same, and not do the crap flying that thing does.

havick206
05-04-2018, 01:40 PM
Doubt it. The training costs of the 190 have to be through the roof. No one stays in the right seat of the that thing. As soon as they can bid off they do.(6 month lock for NH’s) and no one bids from bus or 73 to the 190. CA’s bid off a lot too. Group 2 FO is the same as CA group 1. Why not make the same, and not do the crap flying that thing does.

That will be true for any group I type aircraft AA buys regardless of type.

TransWorld
05-04-2018, 01:51 PM
From what I read I think AA will keep Group 1 and utilize new Embraer E2 (195’s) or Airbus A210/230 C series.

Makes sense. I see a definite niche between 76 seat regionals and the 150 seat Group 2s. Something needs to fill this hole. And they ain’t bringing back the DC-9 (that was the 1960s forerunner of the Mad Dog for you young guys).

I foresee, as there becomes a greater shortage of pilots in the regionals, much of the 50 seaters will be sent to the desert, replaced by fewer flights of 76 seaters. Then the 76 seaters, where loads justify it, will be replaced by a 100 seater (Group 1) or in a few cases a 150 seater.

Just for a point of reference, AA Group 1 second year FO pay is 66% of AA Group 2 second year FO (737/A320).

Without consideration of bonus, Envoy regional second year FO pay is 30% of AA Group 2 second year FO.

chrisreedrules
05-04-2018, 04:44 PM
I think Delta has accelerated some of the “taking back” of its brand and its flying.

UA has some interesting corners it has painted itself into in regards to its regionals and will likely follow Delta’s lead in the coming years with a large order of 100 seat aircraft.

AA I think has been watching closely but hasn’t quite seen fit to pull that trigger just yet. First they will start parking 50 seaters (which apparently we are going to start seeing in 2019). Then as it becomes necessary they will reduce their 76 seat flying and that is likely when we would see a Group 1 aircraft order from AA. They have a good thing (read: profitable) going with their regionals right now.

joseolay
05-05-2018, 05:41 PM
I think Delta has accelerated some of the “taking back” of its brand and its flying.

UA has some interesting corners it has painted itself into in regards to its regionals and will likely follow Delta’s lead in the coming years with a large order of 100 seat aircraft.

AA I think has been watching closely but hasn’t quite seen fit to pull that trigger just yet. First they will start parking 50 seaters (which apparently we are going to start seeing in 2019). Then as it becomes necessary they will reduce their 76 seat flying and that is likely when we would see a Group 1 aircraft order from AA. They have a good thing (read: profitable) going with their regionals right now.

You can almost guarantee a 100-115 seat plane order decision won't happen until after AA pilots agree to a new contract which is amendable in 2019. Wait for that to happen before making any predictions on new 100-115 seat aircraft going to AA.

Half wing
05-05-2018, 07:03 PM
You can almost guarantee a 100-115 seat plane order decision won't happen until after AA pilots agree to a new contract which is amendable in 2019. Wait for that to happen before making any predictions on new 100-115 seat aircraft going to AA.

AA management knows AA pilots won’t let scope slip further. The pilot contract being finished has very little to do with when a c-series or E2 jet gets ordered. It has more to do with the deal they get. The 110-115 seat airplane order will happen when a good deal can be made on them, which may be soon or not for a few years.

joseolay
05-06-2018, 05:15 AM
AA management knows AA pilots won’t let scope slip further. The pilot contract being finished has very little to do with when a c-series or E2 jet gets ordered. It has more to do with the deal they get. The 110-115 seat airplane order will happen when a good deal can be made on them, which may be soon or not for a few years.

It's obvious what will happen in my opinion; if the group one pay scale doesn't increase much with the next contract and the CS100 and E195 is still included, you can almost guarantee a large order for either of those two types. If those types get placed into group two or the group one scale significantly increases, it's unlikely we'll see a large order.

Half wing
05-06-2018, 07:22 PM
Maybe, but I think if they need the planes, they need the planes. A few more sheckles to the pilots isn’t going to break the deal.



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