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tsquared030
05-03-2018, 09:46 AM
Greetings all-knowing gurus,

I'm retiring from a legacy next March and have been considering a corporate job that would last about 5 years or so.

I'm curious is Bizjetjobs.com is a good source, or would you look elsewhere.

Also, to be honest, I have no bizjet experience, which is why I'm looking for help from the experienced pros here. I do have type ratings in B737, 757, 767 and 777, as well as A320.

Any advice or recommendations on where to search or prep, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom


galaxy flyer
05-03-2018, 12:42 PM
Bizjetjobs might work, as would careers websites at Jet Aviation or EJM, but without serious networking and contacts, probably bleak even in today’s market. It’s a different beast than airline flying and enough money is being offered that operators want a record in business aviation.

I’m coming from being a chief pilot who’s seen the resume quality decline precipitously. Flying the jet is everything at 121; it’s seriously only 25% of corporate. No, I’m not talking about cleaning the plane (we don’t), but lots of operators today fly international where, it’s all on the pilot sto “make it happen”. It’s about anticipating all the things agents, TSA, dispatchers, airline management take care of and you don’t see. Passenger forgets his passport in India, it’s on you and, perhaps, a handler to get her thru Immigration. Handler in Accra says, “cash only fuel”; it’s on you to change his mind, even when he parks the fuel truck in front of the wing. Flying Petropalovsk to Tahiti, no dispatcher will confirm that the fuel boarded will ensure divert capability to Christmas Island. Boss wants to operate at East Hampton which is just doable in a Global, if it’s dry. You have to persuade him it’s not a good idea. Yes, those have happened to me.

GF

phlying4fun
05-03-2018, 03:27 PM
I recently retired from United. I've interviewed for a few corporate positions that I received the "Thanks, but no thanks". I had corporate and 135 experience from 35 years ago. I took a position in the charter market. Not the most ideal because you will work twice as hard as you are use to at 121. Getting your foot in the door and proving you aren't, as some in the corporate world believe (it may be true of some but not all) lazy entitled airline pilot.

I enjoy the current flying, and hope to find a better position while doing the best job I can at my present employer. You may also subscribe to "climbto350.com". They have many positions advertised. If you are on Facebook, try the group "Corporate Aviation Job Listings".

Also join ProPilotWorld.


tsquared030
05-03-2018, 04:09 PM
Bizjetjobs might work, as would careers websites at Jet Aviation or EJM, but without serious networking and contacts, probably bleak even in todayís market. Itís a different beast than airline flying and enough money is being offered that operators want a record in business aviation.

Iím coming from being a chief pilot whoís seen the resume quality decline precipitously. Flying the jet is everything at 121; itís seriously only 25% of corporate. No, Iím not talking about cleaning the plane (we donít), but lots of operators today fly international where, itís all on the pilot sto ďmake it happenĒ. Itís about anticipating all the things agents, TSA, dispatchers, airline management take care of and you donít see. Passenger forgets his passport in India, itís on you and, perhaps, a handler to get her thru Immigration. Handler in Accra says, ďcash only fuelĒ; itís on you to change his mind, even when he parks the fuel truck in front of the wing. Flying Petropalovsk to Tahiti, no dispatcher will confirm that the fuel boarded will ensure divert capability to Christmas Island. Boss wants to operate at East Hampton which is just doable in a Global, if itís dry. You have to persuade him itís not a good idea. Yes, those have happened to me.

GF

Thanks GF for the input. Is there a particular networking site you can point me toward, or should I just head out to my local FBOs (I'm in the IAD/DCA area) and start introducing myself?

Interesting challenges that you relate. I'm going to guess that for the Passport and fueler issue, that discrete application of Presidential influence may work (particularly President Grant) with help from Benjamin Franklin. :)

Thanks again.

T

tsquared030
05-03-2018, 04:11 PM
I recently retired from United. I've interviewed for a few corporate positions that I received the "Thanks, but no thanks". I had corporate and 135 experience from 35 years ago. I took a position in the charter market. Not the most ideal because you will work twice as hard as you are use to at 121. Getting your foot in the door and proving you aren't, as some in the corporate world believe (it may be true of some but not all) lazy entitled airline pilot.

I enjoy the current flying, and hope to find a better position while doing the best job I can at my present employer. You may also subscribe to "climbto350.com". They have many positions advertised. If you are on Facebook, try the group "Corporate Aviation Job Listings".

Also join ProPilotWorld.

Thanks Phlying, much appreciated!

T

galaxy flyer
05-03-2018, 06:00 PM
Thanks GF for the input. Is there a particular networking site you can point me toward, or should I just head out to my local FBOs (I'm in the IAD/DCA area) and start introducing myself?

Interesting challenges that you relate. I'm going to guess that for the Passport and fueler issue, that discrete application of Presidential influence may work (particularly President Grant) with help from Benjamin Franklin. :)

Thanks again.

T

ProPilotWorld (paywall) might be helpful. Iíd guess most 135 operators wouldnít be willing type rate, you might find one that will. Itís a huge expense for something like a Gulfstream or Global; less for less well-paying types. Itís the type rating that might be your biggest hurdleó$80,000 + for those types. Check the Jet Aviation or Rxecutive Jet Management sites. Those are usually great jobs, but usually want experience in type.

No, offering money up front is as likely to cause a problem than fix one. In the passport case, my passengers were well connected and quickly solved the problem. I just stood my ground in Accra and out-waited them. Itís a different side of aviation. I went to two countries (Gabon and Montenegro) where the Immigration authorities took one look at who we were with and just said, ďhave a good evening, donít stop by againĒ.

GF

HwkrPlt
05-04-2018, 04:45 AM
Just remember, if you go to corporate, the airline favorite line of "its not my job" never applies. There are lots of unsavory things you'll need to do, probably because no one else will do it, or no one else will do a good enough job. If you go 135, there won't be a locked door between you and your pax, so if you fly someone that is a royal PITA, you have to deal with them directly. There is no flight attendant or gate agent to pass them off to.

Personally I can't imagine doing retail 135 post 65, especially after retiring from a major, but to each their own....

SrfNFly227
05-04-2018, 06:42 AM
There are lots of jobs out there right now and retired airline pilots are definitely getting picked up. I'm in Norfolk and about half of our local pilots (most hired in the last year or two) are recently retired legacy.

Your best bet up in DC will be Manassas (KHEF). There are a few operators there that have been posting jobs pretty consistently. Chantilly Air comes to mind.

Also, as others have said, flying is very little of the job on the 91/135 side. You have heavy experience that is probably mostly international. That's great, but it does not qualify you to be a Gulfstream or Global Captain. Especially since you've never flown on the business jet side. There is a lot of coordination required for International trips that you have never been a part of. Aim for a position as large cabin SIC or small/mid PIC.

galaxy flyer
05-04-2018, 07:12 AM
Thereís also a huge difference between retail 91K or 135 and private 91. Part 91 you probably have a less restrictive budget, a flight attendant in large cabin planes and an ongoing relationship with the boss. His schedule is your schedule and some buy the plane to do business and go home. I have a friend who brags he only buys drinks on the expense account while on the bossís (and his) vacation. Takes or flies his wife out to wherever the annual vacation is.

Part 135 is different everyday, expenses are watched, planes more beat, everyday is a ďfly dayĒ. Customers look at you as a cabbie.

GF

Otters
05-04-2018, 10:12 AM
Part 135 is different everyday, expenses are watched, planes more beat, everyday is a ďfly dayĒ. Customers look at you as a cabbie.

GF

Excellent. You just described a part 121job.

galaxy flyer
05-04-2018, 01:36 PM
Excellent. You just described a part 121job.

Yes, but the pay, schedule,and retirement are all vastly better. If youíre treated like a cabbie, at least get paid for it.

GF

Otters
05-05-2018, 09:55 AM
Yes, but the pay, schedule,and retirement are all vastly better. If youíre treated like a cabbie, at least get paid for it.

GF

Respectfully, I disagree. Unlike the 121 world where itís an open book, there are many jobs in the 91 world where the benefits aand pay are outstanding. The surveys done in the 91 world offer a glimpse, but I can speak first hand the jobs held and those benefits are closely guarded secrets.

galaxy flyer
05-05-2018, 01:06 PM
I agree on specific cases, but those are rare whereas 121 is open and probably career long, 121 will out-pace corporate. Then again, I tried to induce a friend to work for me (Global in NYC) and was mildly stunned when he told what he earned for what he did. No wonder he didnít take recall at UAL. Itís possible, but an insider game. There are thousands of $200k+ 121 guys, probably fewer than 500 corporate guys making $200k+ and getting 15% additional into a 401 plan.

GF

rickair7777
05-06-2018, 05:25 PM
Respectfully, I disagree. Unlike the 121 world where itís an open book, there are many jobs in the 91 world where the benefits aand pay are outstanding. The surveys done in the 91 world offer a glimpse, but I can speak first hand the jobs held and those benefits are closely guarded secrets.

I can imagine. If I were really smart and really rich, I would pay a fairly ridiculous amount to attract and retain folks who would keep my family safe. But I'm an aviation insider, most rich people aren't. Most of them didn't get rich by paying top dollar for everything they bought.

galaxy flyer
05-07-2018, 07:09 AM
And there are a fair number of High Wealth individuals who pay very well and are great to work for—I know several. But, it’s a small group of pilots compared to the 60,000 at the Big 6.

To the OP, I’d bet you’d find MOST corporate work interesting for about 90 days, then head back to retirement.

GF

tsquared030
05-07-2018, 08:48 AM
There are lots of jobs out there right now and retired airline pilots are definitely getting picked up. I'm in Norfolk and about half of our local pilots (most hired in the last year or two) are recently retired legacy.

Your best bet up in DC will be Manassas (KHEF). There are a few operators there that have been posting jobs pretty consistently. Chantilly Air comes to mind.

Also, as others have said, flying is very little of the job on the 91/135 side. You have heavy experience that is probably mostly international. That's great, but it does not qualify you to be a Gulfstream or Global Captain. Especially since you've never flown on the business jet side. There is a lot of coordination required for International trips that you have never been a part of. Aim for a position as large cabin SIC or small/mid PIC.


Thanks SrfN,

I know I don't know everything (or much at all) about 91/135 and I think your advice about SIC/PIC options is spot on.

Vital Signs
05-07-2018, 12:52 PM
Greetings all-knowing gurus,

I'm retiring from a legacy next March and have been considering a corporate job that would last about 5 years or so.

I'm curious is Bizjetjobs.com is a good source, or would you look elsewhere.

Also, to be honest, I have no bizjet experience, which is why I'm looking for help from the experienced pros here. I do have type ratings in B737, 757, 767 and 777, as well as A320.

Any advice or recommendations on where to search or prep, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

Out of curiosity, is this a financial decision or out of boredom or something else?

Years back, I had one Windbag tell me he wanted to fly corporate after he retired from his major so he could "give back" to aviation.
Load of Bul$hit. If he wanted to give back he would retire and leave an open spot for an up-and-comer.

Packrat
05-07-2018, 01:58 PM
Load of Bul$hit. If he wanted to give back he would retire and leave an open spot for an up-and-comer.

Or get a CFI, find a flight school and teach youngsters to fly. Or be a Sim Instructor and keep the current guys flying.

Vital Signs
05-07-2018, 02:40 PM
Or get a CFI, find a flight school and teach youngsters to fly. Or be a Sim Instructor and keep the current guys flying.

Good idea!

tsquared030
05-08-2018, 08:17 AM
Out of curiosity, is this a financial decision or out of boredom or something else?

Years back, I had one Windbag tell me he wanted to fly corporate after he retired from his major so he could "give back" to aviation.
Load of Bul$hit. If he wanted to give back he would retire and leave an open spot for an up-and-comer.

Nothing so altruistic, I'm afraid. :)

Part financial, part desire to keep flying in a new and challenging area that I've not experienced in my 40+ years of flying.
My children are grown and I've been widowed for 5 years, so I'll have the freedom to relocate and travel.

I do feel there will be a spot for an up-and-comer at my current employer when I retire (along with about 600 others in 2019).

I'm a little over 300 days from retiring, so just trying to explore the feasibility of various post retirement options. That's why I value the opinions of those on this web board.

T

cobalt650
05-08-2018, 10:35 AM
I'd ignore the sniping from those on either side of the legacy/corporate fence. Try to meet with some different flight departments, establish a network, and do what you want to do. No hurdle or bias in impenetrable. Trust me:)

ZeroTT
05-09-2018, 08:47 AM
Iíd suggest finding a job that isnít a destination and make yourself desirable as a reliable 5 year hire. Small company with a king air 200 or the like. Start hanging around the FBO at your local GA field. Make it known youíre looking for work.

Cirrus is hiring folks to be cfi/mentor pilots for the new SF50. Might be fun / training base is TYS

Falcondrivr
05-09-2018, 11:30 AM
DONíT be the 787 guy I just got a resume from. 4 glamour shots and a quote from yourself on the cover, followed by 5 pages of self-adoration writtten in the third person.
We reallly donít care about your past accomplishments. You are retiring from a legacy, so we know you have a lot to offer. We just want to see if we could spend a week on the road with you.

wise810
05-09-2018, 01:04 PM
Previous comments about 135 flying are accurate. More and more recruiting of retired 121 guys as the shortage gets worse. My two cents:
Find a PC-12 operator. Mostly domestic day trips; interesting overnights to mostly desirable locations. Mid 60ís for pay, so itís not a lot, but youíll enjoy flying with some youngsters you can mentor and some oldsters who have a grasp of what it means to be a seasoned 135 professional. Scheduling can be challenging with on call days, or you can find more and more operators going to an 8 on 6 off schedule. Get ahold of a current pilot and talk about the company over a beer.
Good luck!Nothing so altruistic, I'm afraid. :)

Part financial, part desire to keep flying in a new and challenging area that I've not experienced in my 40+ years of flying.
My children are grown and I've been widowed for 5 years, so I'll have the freedom to relocate and travel.

I do feel there will be a spot for an up-and-comer at my current employer when I retire (along with about 600 others in 2019).

I'm a little over 300 days from retiring, so just trying to explore the feasibility of various post retirement options. That's why I value the opinions of those on this web board.

T

SHFP
05-09-2018, 08:48 PM
Actually it's opening up well in the 91/135 world. Retired from a Legacy several years back and it was pretty tight breaking in. However, times have really changed and I can find as much work (Contract & Mentoring) as my wife & life allows. I will agree with several others that your 121 experience can, and will, be used against or for you, depending on how you present yourself. Just be open, willing (and humble) to learn.

tsquared030
05-12-2018, 05:11 PM
DONíT be the 787 guy I just got a resume from. 4 glamour shots and a quote from yourself on the cover, followed by 5 pages of self-adoration writtten in the third person.
We reallly donít care about your past accomplishments. You are retiring from a legacy, so we know you have a lot to offer. We just want to see if we could spend a week on the road with you.

Well, I'm flying 20+ year old 767s now, so not much glamour, but point taken. :)

Thanks.

Spin
05-13-2018, 12:22 PM
Have you thought about flying seaplanes. The money won't be much but the fun will.

Sliceback
05-14-2018, 04:39 PM
Have you thought about flying seaplanes. The money won't be much but the fun will.

Twatter’s on floats! Looks like a great retirement gig!!

tsquared030
05-15-2018, 08:42 AM
Have you thought about flying seaplanes. The money won't be much but the fun will.

I definitely want to get a seaplane rating someday, but hadn't considered it as a post-retirement job. Guess I'll add it to the list of possibilities. :)

T

send a check
06-01-2018, 03:53 PM
I would like to go back to AK and fly floats post 121 flying. It was incredible scenery and challenging. And fun. Lots of work though.

BMEP100
07-01-2018, 04:37 AM
T,
Keep us posted on your experience looking and interviewing. I should be interesting reading.....and helpful to some of us.

I'm not far behind you.

I did some corporate flying in the 70's, which drove me to fly dirty old freighters. My first trip PDK - CHA with one VP. Thunderstorms and a broke radar.... I got an ass chewing from the VP before reaching TOC for not having his brand of scotch on board, at 11 AM! There were good gigs back then too, but not many.

Hopefully it's changed.

BMEP100
07-07-2018, 07:54 PM
Greetings all-knowing gurus,

I'm retiring from a legacy next March and have been considering a corporate job that would last about 5 years or so.


Any advice or recommendations on where to search or prep, are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Tom

Have you thought about air ambulance? I was just reading a thread where someone described it as the ideal retirement job, due to the schedules.

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/part-135/114841-ems-flying-career-jobs.html#post2628613

I did some corporate flying, briefly after the Air Force. I didn't care for it.

Std Deviation
07-12-2018, 04:28 PM
Got picked up by an Uber driver at DAL in a Mercedes. Was in uniform. Talked about baseball, guns (he had a shooting bag in the car), and small talk. Aviation came up. I could tell by the questions he was asking that he knew a lot but I wasn’t sure how. Drops me off and I ask, “I gotta know. Are you an air traffic controller?” Response - “Nope. A retired 787 captain...” Well okay then. So there’s always Uber :D

forgot to bid
07-27-2018, 05:19 PM
When I left my chief pilot job on an Embraer legacy for Delta I advertised the job and found something funny. Despite all the “airline pilots are lazy or entitled and won’t put in the extra effort” talk I didn’t find any corporate guys who wanted to run a part 91/135 job with no mechanic or flight attendant and you had your own hangar and fuel farm to deal with.

I found no corporate guy who wanted the workload. I found airline pilots applying for it but the boss didn’t want another airline pilot like myself because we would run off to delta. So we found a fired fractional guy and I think that went so poorly that the boss just gave the jet over to the part 135 company a year after I left.

The truth is, cliches are bs. Take one person at a time. And retire in peace or fly contract. But you might be happier driving Uber

Big E 757
07-28-2018, 11:26 PM
When I left my chief pilot job on an Embraer legacy for Delta I advertised the job and found something funny. Despite all the “airline pilots are lazy or entitled and won’t put in the extra effort” talk I didn’t find any corporate guys who wanted to run a part 91/135 job with no mechanic or flight attendant and you had your own hangar and fuel farm to deal with.

I found no corporate guy who wanted the workload. I found airline pilots applying for it but the boss didn’t want another airline pilot like myself because we would run off to delta. So we found a fired fractional guy and I think that went so poorly that the boss just gave the jet over to the part 135 company a year after I left.

The truth is, cliches are bs. Take one person at a time. And retire in peace or fly contract. But you might be happier driving Uber


I agree.


When I got furloughed in 2002, I couldn’t get a call for any corporate/part 135 flying jobs and I live in the Chicago area. Now granted, I got furloughed in March of 2002 and Legacies had been furloughing since November of 2001 so I was a little late to the party. After 6 months of bartending and collecting unemployment (The most fun I had in my 3 years of being furloughed) I got a job flying a King Air 200. It was a decent job but only paid $35K so I actually made less than I was making bartending but I was flying. A year or so later, I got hired by an aircraft management company flying a Falcon 20. The boss expressed his concerns about hiring me and made me sign a 12 month contract. I gladly did. Then I got a friend and fellow furloughee hired because a couple other of their Falcon pilots quit. The two of us were the only guys, other than the owner of the management company and an SIC, also an SIC on a couple of the other aircraft, that were qualified to fly the two Falcon 20’s we had.

My friend and I were basically turned loose after minimum time on the aircraft, and we came up with flows and procedures, had a good division of responsibilities every time we flew, and the owners and charter customers loved us. My boss would tell me all the time that I had a new home, because the airlines were all going bankrupt and I was never going back. It made me sick and angry all the time. When I was recalled two years later, and quit, he shook my hand and told me “Thank God for you and Greg, if it wasn’t for you two, I would have probably lost both airplanes to someone else.” (It turned out he knew I was getting close to going back and didn’t want me to leave.) Also, often, while I was waiting for customers at MDW or PWK, I was being told about different, better jobs by guys that worked for Priester and other charter companies.

(To the OP)
To make a long story longer, there are definitely biases against “Airline guys” in corporate aviation. But as a retiree, you don’t pose a threat of leaving after an expensive type rating. It’ll all be about attitude. But you will have a hard time proving you have a good attitude and are willing to organize maintenance or catering if you can’t get in front of the guy that does the hiring. It is really hard to jump the 121 to corporate hurdle, but once you do, you’ll be in a new club with lots of opportunities. Just don’t be that guy that goes from one gig to the next, costing companies lots of training costs and leaving for a better or higher paying job.

Do some homework and figure out exactly what kind of flying you want to do for your post retirement flying. Then figure out what companies in your area do that type of flying, and then get your happy, handsome face in front of those people. Pursue that for a while, and if that still doesn’t work, then start to look for other opportunities that will at least make you happy and keep you busy.

Good luck.

Vital Signs
07-29-2018, 08:39 AM
When I left my chief pilot job on an Embraer legacy for Delta I advertised the job and found something funny. Despite all the ďairline pilots are lazy or entitled and wonít put in the extra effortĒ talk I didnít find any corporate guys who wanted to run a part 91/135 job with no mechanic or flight attendant and you had your own hangar and fuel farm to deal with.

I found no corporate guy who wanted the workload. I found airline pilots applying for it but the boss didnít want another airline pilot like myself because we would run off to delta. So we found a fired fractional guy and I think that went so poorly that the boss just gave the jet over to the part 135 company a year after I left.

The truth is, cliches are bs. Take one person at a time. And retire in peace or fly contract. But you might be happier driving Uber

I notice you did not mention the pay. What was the salary?

forgot to bid
07-29-2018, 09:34 AM
I notice you did not mention the pay. What was the salary?

90K in 2006 plus a bonus on charter hours flown.

But numbers were never discussed on job offering, could have been 400k, people didn't want that workload.

tsquared030
08-29-2018, 01:47 PM
T,
Keep us posted on your experience looking and interviewing. I should be interesting reading.....and helpful to some of us.



Not too much to update yet. I attended the NBAA Regional meeting in HPN back in June and met some people.

Mostly still trying to expand my network. I flew with an old college/USN buddy, who flies a PC-12NG for an owner in Colorado. I mostly took up weight and space as copilot over the two day trip, but it was a first look into that life and very informative.

I've been resurrecting my resume from 1988 when I was hired at my 121 carrier. I remember paying one of my squadron mates wife, to type it in a fancy font and print it on her new printer.
And I'll be headed to Orlando for the NBAA Convention there. I won't be ready for new career until after the new year, but I hope to get some solid leads there.

T

Mink
08-30-2018, 02:25 PM
--------------------

cezzna
09-02-2018, 09:55 AM
I think itís less airline stink and more age discrimination. Face it, itís difficult to take anyone seriously who says they want to continue to work at age 65. Iím corporate part 91 and Iím stuffing as much as possible into the 401k. Iíd like to punch out at 62 or less and go hike the AT.

BMEP100
09-25-2018, 07:12 PM
Not too much to update yet. I attended the NBAA Regional meeting in HPN back in June and met some people.

Mostly still trying to expand my network. I flew with an old college/USN buddy, who flies a PC-12NG for an owner in Colorado. I mostly took up weight and space as copilot over the two day trip, but it was a first look into that life and very informative.

I've been resurrecting my resume from 1988 when I was hired at my 121 carrier. I remember paying one of my squadron mates wife, to type it in a fancy font and print it on her new printer.
And I'll be headed to Orlando for the NBAA Convention there. I won't be ready for new career until after the new year, but I hope to get some solid leads there.

T

Please let us know what the convention is like for job seekers.



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