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View Full Version : False advertising by Envoy


pitchattitude
05-04-2018, 06:34 AM
I may get jumped on for starting a new thread for this. I know this has been brought up in several of the other threads. I’m not a doom and gloom basher, but certainly not happy about how things have worked out at Envoy. I was looking at info for other airlines on the APC pages and there was an Envoy ad that popped out at me. SIX years to flow it says.

I clicked on the link http://jobs.envoyair.com/dec/ and the pay chart it shows actually says year FIVE is a blended Envoy/AA rate! They are effectively saying if you get hired now you will be at AA in five and a half years! While I wish this were true, there is NO way. The company needs to show the math. The union needs to do something about this. If Envoy wants to sell this BS, they need to tell the rest of us that are here how they are going to make this happen.

It is also advertising 950 hours as DEC. I know they are counting the 50 hours if IOE, but we all know you are not eligible to bid for or enter training without 1000 hours if qualifying time.

If the company wants this to be true, they need to come to the table and make the changes to the contract to make it so. Otherwise the union needs to get a ceases and desist. File a class action lawsuit for all of us.


Pedro4President
05-04-2018, 06:40 AM
I may get jumped on for starting a new thread for this. I know this has been brought up in several of the other threads. I’m not a doom and gloom basher, but certainly not happy about how things have worked out at Envoy. I was looking at info for other airlines on the APC pages and there was an Envoy ad that popped out at me. SIX years to flow it says.

I clicked on the link Envoy Air Direct Entry Captains (http://jobs.envoyair.com/dec/) and the pay chart it shows actually says year FIVE is a blended Envoy/AA rate! They are effectively saying if you get hired now you will be at AA in five and a half years! While I wish this were true, there is NO way. The company needs to show the math. The union needs to do something about this. If Envoy wants to sell this BS, they need to tell the rest of us that are here how they are going to make this happen.

It is also advertising 950 hours as DEC. I know they are counting the 50 hours if IOE, but we all know you are not eligible to bid for or enter training without 1000 hours if qualifying time.

Its worse then you realize....

To get a blended 5th year pay, then flow is at FOUR years and six months. This right here is the BIGGEST load of BS I have ever seen come out from the recruitment department.

I'm going to bet someone in the training department made the same mistake you did and didn't realize they were saying you would be at AA in 4.5 years. I am hoping this is a mistake instead of someone being nefarious.

E175 Driver
05-04-2018, 06:47 AM
Fake News.


SilentLurker
05-04-2018, 06:55 AM
Fake News.



Why do you believe it’s “fake news.”

SilentLurker
05-04-2018, 07:04 AM
It is also advertising 950 hours as DEC. I know they are counting the 50 hours if IOE, but we all know you are not eligible to bid for or enter training without 1000 hours if qualifying time.


How sure are you they are not sending those DECs with 950 hrs - 1000 hrs directly to DEC training outside the bid? Not a lie if true. Company is desperate for CA.

pitchattitude
05-04-2018, 07:22 AM
How sure are you they are not sending those DECs with 950 hrs - 1000 hrs directly to DEC training outside the bid? Not a lie if true. Company is desperate for CA.

I certainly DON’T know they are not doing it, but if they are, I understand it to be a violation of the contract, and there needs to be a grievance on behalf of anyone who missed the cut off for a captains bid by 50 hours.

havick206
05-04-2018, 07:33 AM
I certainly DON’T know they are not doing it, but if they are, I understand it to be a violation of the contract, and there needs to be a grievance on behalf of anyone who missed the cut off for a captains bid by 50 hours.

They ARE doing it, 3-4 CA’s just hit reserve at LGA a week or two ago that were hired in JAN18 after the DEC17 vacancy bid closed and went right into CA training from day one.

SilentLurker
05-04-2018, 07:43 AM
the company wants this to be true, they need to come to the table and make the changes to the contract to make it so. Otherwise the union needs to get a ceases and desist. File a class action lawsuit for all of us.


The company can do whatever it wants because they have their own math and reality to support their stance. Is it legal? Maybe maybe not, Grieve it.

Company gets what it wants and needs in the present at all times, until 1-2yrs after the grievance is skidded down the road. If grievance arbitrator sides with union, the “reparations” MAYBE TOO SMALL, will be far to small or late to make any difference to those affected.

Truth is company doesn’t NEED to do anything unless management:

1. Wants to- per Contract interpretation, Policy, Strategic goals.
2. Is forced to by AAG.
3. Judge/grievance arbitrators orders it.
4. Market conditions necessitates it.

ALPA as a Union is only as strong as its memberships supports it, and memberships involvement (file the grievance). APC & TalkAirline forums has its usefulness at times for both company and unions favor, but Strong membership involvement (reading the contract, calling reps & volunteer, learning from those in the union) & strong membership support of the Union (stop bad mouthing, complaining, spreading non-factual information, rumors to pilot group, bad mouthing MEC, LEC) etc. A divided union is weak union.

Company has the edge thanks to RLA. But RLA allows us a seat at the table, and market conditions gives us a little leverage (not as great a leverage as some might think).

We live in the age of instant gratification. Cards are stacked against regional pilots and meaningful progress & processes for pilots take time. Many wheels make a tuned time-clock turn. Can’t force this company into a position it does not see it needs.

havick206
05-04-2018, 07:44 AM
The company can do whatever it wants because they have their own math and reality to support their stance. Is it legal? Maybe maybe not, Grieve it.

Company gets what it wants and needs in the present at all times, until 1-2yrs after the grievance is kidded down the road. If grievance arbitrator sides with union, the reparations MAYBE TOO SMALL, will be far to small or late to make any difference to those affected. Truth is company doesn’t NEED to do anything unless it:

1. Wants to- per Policy, Strategic goals.
2. Is forced to by AAG.
3. Judge/grievance arbitrators orders it.
4. Market conditions necessitates it.

ALPA as a Union is only as strong as its memberships supports it, and memberships involvement. APC & TalkAirline forums have its usefulness at times for both company and union. Strong membership involvement (reading the contract, calling reps & volunteer, learning from those in the union) & strong membership support of the Union (stop bad mouthing, complaining, spreading non-factual information, rumors to pilot group, bad mouthing MEC, LEC) etc. A divided union is weak union.

Company has the edge thanks to RLA. But RLA allows us a seat at the table, and market conditions gives us a little leverage.

We live in the age of instant gratification. Cards are stacked against regional pilots and meaningful progress & processes for pilots take time. Many wheels make a tuned time clock tick.

Grievances have been filed for those affected.

Podrick
05-04-2018, 05:15 PM
While we're at it I'll join in. These graphs they put out there show you earning the entire FO retention bonus, and yet its a complete scam based on how its structured.

For example, I came off probation in the middle of 12/2017. I will not receive the first installment until June 2018, a second in September 2018, at which point I will likely be forced to upgrade and therefore lose the rest of the bonus.

In the end thats $15,000 in compensation that recruiters sold to me that I will never see.

ag386
05-04-2018, 06:06 PM
While we're at it I'll join in. These graphs they put out there show you earning the entire FO retention bonus, and yet its a complete scam based on how its structured.

For example, I came off probation in the middle of 12/2017. I will not receive the first installment until June 2018, a second in September 2018, at which point I will likely be forced to upgrade and therefore lose the rest of the bonus.

In the end thats $15,000 in compensation that recruiters sold to me that I will never see.

Q: What's the difference between a vacuum cleaner and an Envoy recruiter on a motorcycle?
A: The vacuum cleaner has the dirt bag on the inside.

Gooselives
05-04-2018, 07:17 PM
Q: What's the difference between a vacuum cleaner and an Envoy recruiter on a motorcycle?
A: The vacuum cleaner has the dirt bag on the inside.

My Dyson has better flow tooo

Houpilot2001
05-04-2018, 09:36 PM
While we're at it I'll join in. These graphs they put out there show you earning the entire FO retention bonus, and yet its a complete scam based on how its structured.

For example, I came off probation in the middle of 12/2017. I will not receive the first installment until June 2018, a second in September 2018, at which point I will likely be forced to upgrade and therefore lose the rest of the bonus.

In the end thats $15,000 in compensation that recruiters sold to me that I will never see.

Just bid reserve like every other FO.

Whiskey4
05-05-2018, 02:18 AM
While we're at it I'll join in. These graphs they put out there show you earning the entire FO retention bonus, and yet its a complete scam based on how its structured.

For example, I came off probation in the middle of 12/2017. I will not receive the first installment until June 2018, a second in September 2018, at which point I will likely be forced to upgrade and therefore lose the rest of the bonus.

In the end thats $15,000 in compensation that recruiters sold to me that I will never see.

Was the company doing forced upgrades when you were hired or initially started talking with recruiters? Remember, recruiters don’t have a crystal ball. I doubt they were trying to screw you, and they just shared the best information available at the time. Back in 2017 First Officers appeared to have a reasonable expectation of receiving the full retention bonus.

Besides, why would you want an FO retention bonus when you can be making captain pay and have a much higher rate for OT? I get the perks of higher seniority and staying in a particular base/aircraft, but wanting FO wages + retention vs. CA pay doesn’t seem to make sense.

FO: $37000 + $10000(bonus) = $46000
Junior CA: $60-65k + $99-105 OT rate (after considering the 1.5x)
(Numbers are very approximate)

I’m fairly certain the $15,000+ in compensation you feel that you will never see will be supplied by your higher wage. In overall earnings you should come out ahead. Am I missing something??

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 04:51 AM
Was the company doing forced upgrades when you were hired or initially started talking with recruiters? Remember, recruiters don’t have a crystal ball. I doubt they were trying to screw you, and they just shared the best information available at the time. Back in 2017 First Officers appeared to have a reasonable expectation of receiving the full retention bonus.



Besides, why would you want an FO retention bonus when you can be making captain pay and have a much higher rate for OT? I get the perks of higher seniority and staying in a particular base/aircraft, but wanting FO wages + retention vs. CA pay doesn’t seem to make sense.



FO: $37000 + $10000(bonus) = $46000

Junior CA: $60-65k + $99-105 OT rate (after considering the 1.5x)

(Numbers are very approximate)



I’m fairly certain the $15,000+ in compensation you feel that you will never see will be supplied by your higher wage. In overall earnings you should come out ahead. Am I missing something??

Why should anyone have to Upgrade just to work OT & make up for the the “40 acre and a mule” originally promised in written advertisement, and speeches from recruiters? This is where the disconnect occurs & bad blood festers. When you come to a company expecting to earn a certain amount; flow at a certain time, and to find out it was all white lies. Creates animosity and distrust very early.

People want to work for a honest & ethical business. Take away the choice of position from a man or woman and you literally make them “serfs” in a feudalism business. Serfdom is no bueno. Neither is white lies to the ears of God and the blind fold of justice.

in2deep
05-05-2018, 05:17 AM
While we're at it I'll join in. These graphs they put out there show you earning the entire FO retention bonus, and yet its a complete scam based on how its structured.

For example, I came off probation in the middle of 12/2017. I will not receive the first installment until June 2018, a second in September 2018, at which point I will likely be forced to upgrade and therefore lose the rest of the bonus.

In the end thats $15,000 in compensation that recruiters sold to me that I will never see.


I can’t believe that this industry has gotten to the point where people complain about upgrading. You’ll make the difference back within the first year.

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 05:19 AM
I can’t believe that this industry has gotten to the point where people complain about upgrading. You’ll make the difference back within the first year.



Tell that to as many AA pilots as there are Envoy pilots, PSA pilots, Piedmont pilots combined who do not want to upgrade at mainline. We are not mainline, yet still, Regional Industry wide, IT IS A CHOICE. I know plenty who held out of upgrade “back in the days” for better QOL/family, etc.

Your sentiments are misplaced. It’s not a generation things. Some who want it ASAP, some who do not yet for various reasons including family structure, seniority QOL. Has nothing to do with millennialist mentality. Love of Money might rule your life but not everyone’s life, or family.

E190 Driver
05-05-2018, 05:23 AM
https://pics.me.me/welcome-to-the-party-pal-19282323.png

Whiskey4
05-05-2018, 06:12 AM
Why should anyone have to Upgrade just to work OT & make up for the the “40 acre and a mule” originally promised in written advertisement, and speeches from recruiters? This is where the disconnect occurs & bad blood festers. When you come to a company expecting to earn a certain amount; flow at a certain time, and to find out it was all white lies. Creates animosity and distrust very early.

People want to work for a honest & ethical business. Take away the choice of position from a man or woman and you literally make them “serfs” in a feudalism business. Serfdom is no bueno. Neither is white lies to the ears of God and the blind fold of justice.

Okay, then don’t work any OT. You still come out ahead in the end.

I love how you seem to think that ebbs and flows in a highly cyclical industry should not have any effect on “your expectations” that you had when you got hired. My old man didn’t plan on having his pension stolen by UAL. I didn’t plan on Congress passing the Age 65 Rule effectively freezing my career in plan for 5 years so others (and the airlines) could benefit. So forgive me if I’m amused by you thinking that anything in this industry does or should revolve around your personal expectations. Anything any airline or it’s recruiters promises you is a mere snapshot with a reasonable projection of what they believe is to come under current conditions/variables.

Try putting yourself in the shoes of an ExpressJet pilot who lost both Delta and AA contracts. You complain about feeling like a serf at a stable and growing airline with an opportunity to move to mainline and relatively guaranteed seniority movement until you leave??? Cry me a river...

Inop2
05-05-2018, 06:26 AM
The company can do whatever it wants because they have their own math and reality to support their stance. Is it legal? Maybe maybe not, Grieve it.

Company gets what it wants and needs in the present at all times, until 1-2yrs after the grievance is skidded down the road. If grievance arbitrator sides with union, the “reparations” MAYBE TOO SMALL, will be far to small or late to make any difference to those affected.

Truth is company doesn’t NEED to do anything unless management:

1. Wants to- per Contract interpretation, Policy, Strategic goals.
2. Is forced to by AAG.
3. Judge/grievance arbitrators orders it.
4. Market conditions necessitates it.

ALPA as a Union is only as strong as its memberships supports it, and memberships involvement (file the grievance). APC & TalkAirline forums has its usefulness at times for both company and unions favor, but Strong membership involvement (reading the contract, calling reps & volunteer, learning from those in the union) & strong membership support of the Union (stop bad mouthing, complaining, spreading non-factual information, rumors to pilot group, bad mouthing MEC, LEC) etc. A divided union is weak union.

Company has the edge thanks to RLA. But RLA allows us a seat at the table, and market conditions gives us a little leverage (not as great a leverage as some might think).

We live in the age of instant gratification. Cards are stacked against regional pilots and meaningful progress & processes for pilots take time. Many wheels make a tuned time-clock turn. Can’t force this company into a position it does not see it needs.

Sums it up 100%.

Talking of an active pilot group.... can we please drive a stake in the ground over the term regional airline? That term not only inaccurately describes our flying but negatively impacts our mission to get paid for what we actually do. There may be regional flying done by other AA partners but Envoy flying is not one of them. We are an AA wholly owned subsidiary flying in North America. Mainline often shares the same routes we do but at different times of the day or season. “Change the language, change the pay.”

You listening ALPA? Time for a new initiative and a new sticker for my crew bag!

Jamesthunder
05-05-2018, 07:20 AM
Sums it up 100%.

Talking of an active pilot group.... can we please drive a stake in the ground over the term regional airline? That term not only inaccurately describes our flying but negatively impacts our mission to get paid for what we actually do. There may be regional flying done by other AA partners but Envoy flying is not one of them. We are an AA wholly owned subsidiary flying in North America. Mainline often shares the same routes we do but at different times of the day or season. “Change the language, change the pay.”

You listening ALPA? Time for a new initiative and a new sticker for my crew bag!

In addition, if we pick up LAX and compass flying, are we not a national airline at that point?

Podrick
05-05-2018, 07:31 AM
I can’t believe that this industry has gotten to the point where people complain about upgrading. You’ll make the difference back within the first year.

Definitely not complaining about upgrading, you must’ve missed the point.

EmbaeDriver
05-05-2018, 07:37 AM
The biggest lie here is that they say “you’ll fly the 175” and you get 145 LGA

Seaplane
05-05-2018, 07:57 AM
In addition, if we pick up LAX and compass flying, are we not a national airline at that point?

Back when Eagle was at the top of its game, it was widely known and respected worldwide. Eagle was probably as close to a “major national airline” as a regional could get, minus the large planes.

Virga show
05-05-2018, 08:04 AM
Back when Eagle was at the top of its game, it was widely known and respected worldwide. Eagle was probably as close to a “major national airline” as a regional could get, minus the large planes.

As long as we keep doing Waco turns out of Dallas we will always be a regional airline

Bassman1985
05-05-2018, 08:11 AM
As long as we keep doing Waco turns out of Dallas we will always be a regional airline

We also do YYC and YUL turns out of Dallas. Didn’t realize Canada was in the same region as Texas...

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 08:41 AM
We also do YYC and YUL turns out of Dallas. Didn’t realize Canada was in the same region as Texas...



Booyahh!!!!

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 08:47 AM
So next big question.... are we getting IAD next?

Since AA said to reservationists that Envoy is taking the E145’s from TSA’s 15 regional jet routes out of IAD, while Skywest will take over 12 from XJT routes out of DFW?

Some say it makes more sense to transfer them to Piedmont, but reading statement from CEO Pedro, it’s coming to ENY’s operating certificate no point coming here to then transfer it to Piedmont.

I’m reaching here but I guess it won’t matter if there is a Envoy/Piedmont merger in 2019, I get it. But then we get into a situation where it’s no longer false Advertisement or white lies from recruitment due to “changes” (keeping it on topic). Someone needs to run the numbers & data of a merged group at MEC/ALPA level, stay ahead of it vs behind this possibility.

Bigpimppilot
05-05-2018, 09:12 AM
Didn’t American do Waco turns way back in the day?

ag386
05-05-2018, 09:32 AM
As long as we keep doing Waco turns out of Dallas we will always be a regional airline

Whenever Eagle was this big respected airline, they did Waco turns. In the Saab.

Pedro4President
05-05-2018, 09:47 AM
So next big question.... are we getting IAD next?

Since AA said to reservationists that Envoy is taking the E145’s from TSA’s 15 regional jet routes out of IAD, while Skywest will take over 12 from XJT routes out of DFW?

Some say it makes more sense to transfer them to Piedmont, but reading statement from CEO Pedro, it’s coming to ENY’s operating certificate no point coming here to then transfer it to Piedmont.

I’m reaching here but I guess it won’t matter if there is a Envoy/Piedmont merger in 2019, I get it. But then we get into a situation where it’s no longer false Advertisement or white lies from recruitment due to “changes” (keeping it on topic). Someone needs to run the numbers & data of a merged group at MEC/ALPA level, stay ahead of it vs behind this possibility.

So apparently the graphic seen by the FA has some chance of happening.... However, just because we keep the planes doesn't mean we get the base. Also, why are we taking planes from TSA and still giving planes to PDT?? It just doesnt make sense from the outside looking in. I wonder how long it will be before they announce the 20 Eagle 175s that Compass has been flying coming to Envoy?

Bassman1985
05-05-2018, 10:22 AM
So apparently the graphic seen by the FA has some chance of happening.... However, just because we keep the planes doesn't mean we get the base. Also, why are we taking planes from TSA and still giving planes to PDT?? It just doesnt make sense from the outside looking in. I wonder how long it will be before they announce the 20 Eagle 175s that Compass has been flying coming to Envoy?

Probably about 12 months out from the contract end date. Both the XJT and TSA contracts end next April. Not sure of the exact end date on Compass. Keep your ears open on Fridays in the future. That’s usually when bad news (for the other company) drops.

jonrayburn
05-05-2018, 11:15 AM
Can any recruiters out there explain why the union’s flow projection is different than what the recruiting department pitches to the new hires? I’ve heard them say it accounts for “outside attrition.” However, isn’t the one of the main reasons why people come here, is because of the flow to AA? I don’t see how they can account for “outside attrition” that isn’t gaurenteed to happen.

Bassman1985
05-05-2018, 11:31 AM
Can any recruiters out there explain why the union’s flow projection is different than what the recruiting department pitches to the new hires? I’ve heard them say it accounts for “outside attrition.” However, isn’t the one of the main reasons why people come here, is because of the flow to AA? I don’t see how they can account for “outside attrition” that isn’t gaurenteed to happen.

Not a recruiter, but I did ask RW that exact question at his Q&A a few weeks ago. The company’s flow projection takes historical attrition numbers into account. ALPA assumes that everyone will stick around until they flow, and that none will bypass. Company says 6 years, ALPA says 9. I figure the actual time to flow will be somewhere in between. I can only speak for myself, but I’m sticking around until I flow. ALPA says that should happen in October 2021. That was recently revised from November 2021.

Seaplane
05-05-2018, 11:33 AM
Can any recruiters out there explain why the union’s flow projection is different than what the recruiting department pitches to the new hires? I’ve heard them say it accounts for “outside attrition.” However, isn’t the one of the main reasons why people come here, is because of the flow to AA? I don’t see how they can account for “outside attrition” that isn’t gaurenteed to happen.

From what I gather they use the historical average of the last 5yrs to calculate an average yearly attrition, then factor in the top ~250 who will not flow, and then the small amount of retirements. The union flow plan is if every pilot were to flow and no attrition. So I can see where recruting gets some of the numbers... But like any salesman, I’m sure they stretch that final number out some also.

AZPilotMike
05-05-2018, 11:46 AM
From what I gather they use the historical average of the last 5yrs to calculate an average yearly attrition, then factor in the top ~250 who will not flow, and then the small amount of retirements. The union flow plan is if every pilot were to flow and no attrition. So I can see where recruting gets some of the numbers... But like any salesman, I’m sure they stretch that final number out some also.
Yeah a healthy estimate for those hired in 2016 and early 2017. Someone coming in now though I just cant see hitting that 6 year number without some drastic shake up at mainline carriers.

Inop2
05-05-2018, 11:48 AM
As long as we keep doing Waco turns out of Dallas we will always be a regional airline

Please explain why.

cr700
05-05-2018, 11:58 AM
So apparently the graphic seen by the FA has some chance of happening.... However, just because we keep the planes doesn't mean we get the base. Also, why are we taking planes from TSA and still giving planes to PDT?? It just doesnt make sense from the outside looking in. I wonder how long it will be before they announce the 20 Eagle 175s that Compass has been flying coming to Envoy?

PDT has a fixed number of aircraft in the fleet plan that we will be transferring. Remember this fleet plan was put in place before 140s and 145s started returning to Envoy that weren't originially planned. We'll be getting the planes....and the base. Big growth plans for Envoy in the future. Stay tuned.

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 12:14 PM
PDT has a fixed number of aircraft in the fleet plan that we will be transferring. Remember this fleet plan was put in place before 140s and 145s started returning to Envoy that weren't originially planned. We'll be getting the planes....and the base. Big growth plans for Envoy in the future. Stay tuned.



I find it hard to disagree. I also remember TSA getting the boot at LGA also. I remember how AWC lost AA flying and we got LGA back + growth at LaGarbage due to both TSA & AirWisky getting the boot.

Smutter
05-05-2018, 12:16 PM
In addition, if we pick up LAX and compass flying, are we not a national airline at that point?

Not that things change, or management tells the full truth, but Dee said, he was confident we would get the compass 175's and he was also confident that they would not be in LA, but out into our already existing system.

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 12:45 PM
Not that things change, or management tells the full truth, but Dee said, he was confident we would get the compass 175's and he was also confident that they would not be in LA, but out into our already existing system.



AAG has added 25 new E175 into our existing system total due to arrive by end of summer 2019 (10+15). So what ur saying Dee said came true.

LA will not be void of 20 E175s, someone will fly them (Skywest, Republic, Envoy). Let see what happens to the picture by Dec2018/Jan2019.

Shrinking the number of FFD carriers flying for AAG to WO is good long term cost strategy and with American Airline Cadet Pilot program/$100k Loan trap/ WO Pilot supply depot and flow, will solve pilot shortage for AAG.

Virga show
05-05-2018, 02:41 PM
Booyahh!!!!

Ok let me say it this way as long as we have the 145 we will be considered a regional airline.

Virga show
05-05-2018, 02:44 PM
Please explain why.

Because that route only takes 17 minutes. Until a major national airline picks that route up (which they will NOT) then we will be considered a regional carrier

HardLemonade
05-05-2018, 03:26 PM
Because that route only takes 17 minutes. Until a major national airline picks that route up (which they will NOT) then we will be considered a regional carrier

If I slip and fall into a rotund girl's vagina...does that make me a chubby chaser??

Pedro4President
05-05-2018, 04:43 PM
PDT has a fixed number of aircraft in the fleet plan that we will be transferring. Remember this fleet plan was put in place before 140s and 145s started returning to Envoy that weren't originially planned. We'll be getting the planes....and the base. Big growth plans for Envoy in the future. Stay tuned.

You would of had me excited if you would of said big FLOW/PAY plans in the future. What's exciting about opening up another base on the east coast? It's a niche market that benefits a select few. I'm not against a new base but it definitely doesn't increase my QOL.

havick206
05-05-2018, 05:03 PM
You would of had me excited if you would of said big FLOW/PAY plans in the future. What's exciting about opening up another base on the east coast? It's a niche market that benefits a select few. I'm not against a new base but it definitely doesn't increase my QOL.

Just stretches staffing even thinner over summer than it already is. Perhaps the only ones that really benefit are the street CA’s as it may get them off eternal reserve, time will tell.

SilentLurker
05-05-2018, 05:51 PM
If I slip and fall into a rotund girl's vagina...does that make me a chubby chaser??

It makes you thirsty... just below having SJS.

HardLemonade
05-05-2018, 06:14 PM
It makes you thirsty... just below having SJS.

Don't knock it. They are tons of fun.

FullThrust
05-05-2018, 06:27 PM
Don't knock it. They are tons of fun.

I prefer my fun to be measured in pounds. But hey, different strokes.

jonrayburn
05-05-2018, 08:02 PM
Not a recruiter, but I did ask RW that exact question at his Q&A a few weeks ago. The company’s flow projection takes historical attrition numbers into account. ALPA assumes that everyone will stick around until they flow, and that none will bypass. Company says 6 years, ALPA says 9. I figure the actual time to flow will be somewhere in between. I can only speak for myself, but I’m sticking around until I flow. ALPA says that should happen in October 2021. That was recently revised from November 2021.

I wonder if the historical attrition numbers include the mass exodus of pilots, when AA was trying to send Eagle down the ****ter a few years back?

NoValueAviator
05-06-2018, 04:48 AM
What about the 175 makes it not a regional airliner? The fact that you're on it? Lol

Inop2
05-06-2018, 05:51 AM
Because that route only takes 17 minutes. Until a major national airline picks that route up (which they will NOT) then we will be considered a regional carrier

A national airline has to pick up THAT route in order to not consider us a regional? Disagree with that premise on “short flight” being the benchmark. I believe there are shorter flights than Waco that are flown by national airlines. Haven’t researched it but I’m sure I could find something.

Inop2
05-06-2018, 05:58 AM
What about the 175 makes it not a regional airliner? The fact that you're on it? Lol

This is a good example of how some members here make a diving catch in the in-zone to diminish what we really do here. You’re managements best tool.

Bassman1985
05-06-2018, 07:39 AM
What about the 175 makes it not a regional airliner? The fact that you're on it? Lol

The fact that AA mainline operates the same type as American Airlines rather than Eagle.

AZPilotMike
05-06-2018, 12:51 PM
What about the 175 makes it not a regional airliner? The fact that you're on it? Lol

So what is your definition of regional than?

regional
[ree-juh-nl]
adjective
of or relating to a region of considerable extent; not merely local:
a regional meeting of the Boy Scouts.

of or relating to a particular region, district, area, or part, as of a country; sectional; local:

So we certainly fly into different regions than we departed unless you consider DFW and Calgary as the same region or DFW and Montreal the same region or how about ORD and JAX the same.

Add the fact that we fly the same type rating as they do mainline, with literally no difference other than passenger count.

SilentLurker
05-06-2018, 01:05 PM
A national airline has to pick up THAT route in order to not consider us a regional? Disagree with that premise on “short flight” being the benchmark. I believe there are shorter flights than Waco that are flown by national airlines. Haven’t researched it but I’m sure I could find something.



Does GRR-ORD flts by mainline AA count as a short flight, or a Regional Flight or a commuter puddle jumper?

SilentLurker
05-06-2018, 03:18 PM
This is a good example of how some members here make a diving catch in the in-zone to diminish what we really do here. You’re managements best tool.


I agree

So what is your definition of regional than?



regional

[ree-juh-nl]

adjective

of or relating to a region of considerable extent; not merely local:

a regional meeting of the Boy Scouts.



of or relating to a particular region, district, area, or part, as of a country; sectional; local:



So we certainly fly into different regions than we departed unless you consider DFW and Calgary as the same region or DFW and Montreal the same region or how about ORD and JAX the same.



Add the fact that we fly the same type rating as they do mainline, with literally no difference other than passenger count.


I agree as well. ALPA & mainline benefits the most from this system.


These are the reasons why scope choke is important. Regional pilot groups should never don’t want to see regional growth... i.e Skywest, Envoy, etc.

Skip0927
05-06-2018, 07:33 PM
Let’s refocus.

Tell me more about this Chubby Chaser concept....

LineUpAndPay
05-07-2018, 02:35 AM
Let’s refocus.

Tell me more about this Chubby Chaser concept....

Slump Buster

Inop2
05-07-2018, 04:29 AM
Let’s refocus.

Tell me more about this Chubby Chaser concept....

Lol

10 char min



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