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View Full Version : AA Flying Ending


PontiusPilot
05-04-2018, 09:34 AM
Along with ExpressJet, according to this article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-04/american-air-to-end-regional-deals-with-expressjet-trans-states


C37AFE
05-04-2018, 10:08 AM
Well maybe the DC Co-domicile will end... Manning may be better.... Think they will pick up more United flights?????

zondaracer
05-04-2018, 10:21 AM
From AA Company newsletter:
Americanís contracts with regional carriers ExpressJet and Trans States to end next year

In an effort to improve consistency for our customers and simplify our regional operation, we have decided not to renew our contracts with ExpressJet and Trans States when they expire in April 2019. The changes will not affect our capacity or service levels in any of our markets, and we will work closely with all impacted partners to ensure smooth and gradual transitions from ExpressJet and Trans States to other existing American Eagle partners. Once the wind-down of these agreements is completed, American will have seven regional partners, down from 10 we had at the beginning of this year.


minimwage4
05-04-2018, 10:42 AM
Good riddance. Biggest POS planes canít get rid of them fast enough. Hopefully we can have better coverage now and focus on quality..

Fr8Thrust
05-04-2018, 10:43 AM
Let the exodus games begin!

BobbyLeeSwagger
05-04-2018, 10:45 AM
Good riddance. Biggest POS planes canít get rid of them fast enough. Hopefully we can have better coverage now and focus on quality..

Haha I was gonna say sorry to hear that, but... well, ok!

fastforward
05-04-2018, 11:06 AM
What does that mean for new hire classes?

flysooner9
05-04-2018, 11:23 AM
Good riddance. Biggest POS planes canít get rid of them fast enough. Hopefully we can have better coverage now and focus on quality..

Careful what you wish for..

C37AFE
05-04-2018, 11:32 AM
Betting RDU is going bye-bye.

NeverHome
05-04-2018, 01:21 PM
Careful what you wish for..

I actually agree with him. IMHO the American flying we picked up in 2015 really hurt us. We ****ed in Unitedís Cheerios, did a shi t y job getting the American flying up to performance, lost a lot of perspective new hires (they wanted Denver but went to and got stuck in STL), and now we find out the planes that were sitting has been costing us a bunch of money.

brokepilot2
05-04-2018, 02:51 PM
It sounds like IAD/DCA and RDU will close. Most of the east coasters I have talked to say theyíre going to do everything they can to get out. Hope RL and company are ready for the mass exodus of pilots

chrisreedrules
05-04-2018, 03:33 PM
It sounds like IAD/DCA and RDU will close. Most of the east coasters I have talked to say theyíre going to do everything they can to get out. Hope RL and company are ready for the mass exodus of pilots

It isnít as if almost everyone isnít hiring DECs or anything... It sucks to start over but you can at least get on somewhere in the same relative domicile with PSA and Republic in DCA and PSA and Piedmont in CLT.

Hou757
05-04-2018, 03:36 PM
Good riddance. Biggest POS planes canít get rid of them fast enough. Hopefully we can have better coverage now and focus on quality..

Transtates and quality. Now that's funny!

brokepilot2
05-04-2018, 03:57 PM
It isnít as if almost everyone isnít hiring DECs or anything... It sucks to start over but you can at least get on somewhere in the same relative domicile with PSA and Republic in DCA and PSA and Piedmont in CLT.

Not to mention the fat bonus that comes along with the DEC jobs. It makes starting over a little less painful

FlyingKat
05-04-2018, 05:09 PM
Company is going to close down IAD flying and move all the UAL flying to ORD and DEN. UAL has been after TSA to get 1,000 more hours of flying out of the aircraft we already have. Initially the company told UAL no, but now that's changed. That plus putting the parked planes into service will make up for the flying lost by losing the AA planes.

The AA flying has been nothing short of a disaster. Because of that we couldn't take the last batch of XRs from United and ****ed them off in the process. Now TSA can concentrate on UA flying and hopefully get more assistance in staffing from UAL now that we have gotten rid of the AA flying. So this will mean nothing in terms of staffing or newhires, other than IAD/DCA and RDU will probably go away as bases.

The only surprise here was the planes going to Envoy, not Piedmont. Figured they would end up there. Obviously this has been in the works for a while as two aircraft have already left for Piedmont.

This also clears the deck for some kind of buyout/merger with another UAL Express carrier. Don't be surprised if TSA get bought in the next few months.

Knobcrk1
05-04-2018, 05:34 PM
Word is they’re keeping RDU for “other” flying. Granted it will be small.

FlyingKat
05-04-2018, 05:41 PM
Word is theyíre keeping RDU for ďotherĒ flying. Granted it will be small.

LOL we're still in Richmond right :D

Knobcrk1
05-04-2018, 05:53 PM
I actually agree with him. IMHO the American flying we picked up in 2015 really hurt us. We ****ed in United’s Cheerios, did a shi t y job getting the American flying up to performance, lost a lot of perspective new hires (they wanted Denver but went to and got stuck in STL), and now we find out the planes that were sitting has been costing us a bunch of money.

I agree too. This will help so much with qol for pilots, less east coast stuff more XRs and Midwest and Den flying. Losing this flying is not a bad deal except for RDU guys but I mean I’m sure we all know it was coming.

minimwage4
05-04-2018, 10:41 PM
Transtates and quality. Now that's funny!

Thatís how we got your flying though.

C37AFE
05-05-2018, 05:27 AM
Company is going to close down IAD flying and move all the UAL flying to ORD and DEN. UAL has been after TSA to get 1,000 more hours of flying out of the aircraft we already have. Initially the company told UAL no, but now that's changed. That plus putting the parked planes into service will make up for the flying lost by losing the AA planes.

The AA flying has been nothing short of a disaster. Because of that we couldn't take the last batch of XRs from United and ****ed them off in the process. Now TSA can concentrate on UA flying and hopefully get more assistance in staffing from UAL now that we have gotten rid of the AA flying. So this will mean nothing in terms of staffing or newhires, other than IAD/DCA and RDU will probably go away as bases.

The only surprise here was the planes going to Envoy, not Piedmont. Figured they would end up there. Obviously this has been in the works for a while as two aircraft have already left for Piedmont.

This also clears the deck for some kind of buyout/merger with another UAL Express carrier. Don't be surprised if TSA get bought in the next few months.

Iím for becoming wholly owned of united with nice no interview flow

chrisreedrules
05-05-2018, 06:00 AM
Iím for becoming wholly owned of united with nice no interview flow

Unfortunately that is a pipe dream due to some contractual limitations on the UA side...

I hope this all shakes out well for Trans States. But I canít help but think your staffing will suffer and some stagnation is to be expected for a while.

LittleFerryBoy
05-05-2018, 04:38 PM
Good or bad news for a new hire looking to hold DEN? Time to look elsewhere?

PontiusPilot
05-05-2018, 05:03 PM
Time to look elsewhere?

Not if it means SkyWest.

CrippleHawk
05-05-2018, 05:04 PM
It sounds like IAD/DCA and RDU will close. Most of the east coasters I have talked to say theyíre going to do everything they can to get out. Hope RL and company are ready for the mass exodus of pilots


That is confirmed from my sources. IAD base will close soon from United side. They want TSA to operate in the midwest.

PontiusPilot
05-05-2018, 07:17 PM
That is confirmed from my sources. IAD base will close soon from United side. They want TSA to operate in the midwest.

How big is the current IAD base? Lines?

NeverHome
05-06-2018, 03:20 AM
How big is the current IAD base? Lines?

I think the UA flying out of IAD has not been that big. C5 and Air Whisky have been pretty big out there.

So Iím gonna make a guess. Once all the AA is gone we continue to push west. Lets see if Iím right :D

FlyingKat
05-06-2018, 02:56 PM
Unfortunately that is a pipe dream due to some contractual limitations on the UA side...

I hope this all shakes out well for Trans States. But I can’t help but think your staffing will suffer and some stagnation is to be expected for a while.


Wrong as usual. UAL has been after us to pick up more flying for a while. The AA flying will be replaced by UAL flying in ORD and DEN. We will need everybody we can get, and may help staffing because lots of people want DEN, although we will lose some of the folks in DC and Raleigh. Also will hopefully repair the relationship with UAL and enable us to finally get the elusive CPP.

chrisreedrules
05-06-2018, 03:01 PM
Wrong as usual. UAL has been after us to pick up more flying for a while. The AA flying will be replaced by UAL flying in ORD and DEN. We will need everybody we can get, and may help staffing because lots of people want DEN, although we will lose some of the folks in DC and Raleigh. Also will hopefully repair the relationship with UAL and enable us to finally get the elusive CPP.

Maybe. But if weíre casting stones most of what Iíve said on here over the years has come to pass. While your track record has traditionally been slightly more dubious.

I hope it turns out okay for Trans States pilots. You have a good pilot group.

m20cmark21
05-06-2018, 05:33 PM
Good or bad news for a new hire looking to hold DEN? Time to look elsewhere?

Good news.

Knobcrk1
05-06-2018, 11:59 PM
Isnít United trying to reduce the 50 seat fleet? Especially in ORD?

NeverHome
05-07-2018, 03:07 AM
Isnít United trying to reduce the 50 seat fleet? Especially in ORD?

It doesnít appear that way. Consider that UA just got air whiskey back, flying 50 seaters, and put them in ORD. So, for now at least I think 50 seaters are gonna be around for some time. Especially in ORD.

Just my observations

SilentLurker
05-07-2018, 03:24 AM
Isnít United trying to reduce the 50 seat fleet? Especially in ORD?



You get it. United has stated they want relief on scope but until that happens they are-trying to shuffle and increasing capacity to smaller markets and grow demand at hubs. I first thought ORD growth, but then I heard them say they would like to grow / increase utilization at their Denver hub and take advantage of the its cost efficiencies. So interesting how the big 4 are highly concerned about cost management, base efficiencies, capacity again.

50 seaters are costing mainline more in the long term at current oil prices and higher. It will put a wrench on Unitedís capacity growth plan. OPEC last month voted up the benchmark to a $80/barrel consistent level they would like to see maintained. Markets are bullish on oil, and oil stocks. No good for 50 seaters.

Excargodog
05-07-2018, 07:04 AM
You get it. United has stated they want relief on scope but until that happens they are-trying to shuffle and increasing capacity to smaller markets and grow demand at hubs. I first thought ORD growth, but then I heard them say they would like to grow / increase utilization at their Denver hub and take advantage of the its cost efficiencies. So interesting how the big 4 are highly concerned about cost management, base efficiencies, capacity again.

50 seaters are costing mainline more in the long term at current oil prices and higher. It will put a wrench on Unitedís capacity growth plan. OPEC last month voted up the benchmark to a $80/barrel consistent level they would like to see maintained. Markets are bullish on oil, and oil stocks. No good for 50 seaters.

Eventually the economics are going to force the airlines - either regional's or mainline - to use whatever the most efficient aircraft is for the job. For some places, that will be 50 seaters, but the pressure is building even now to use aircraft such as the CS100 and Embraer E-2 series where it makes economic sense, scope clauses be damned. If the big four (OK, big three plus Alaska) refuse to play that game, eventually somebody with buckets of money (can you say Amazon Air Prime?) is going to start their own 110-120 pax equipment airline for moderate sized city direct links. The hub and spoke system has always been inefficient, designed more to maximize the monopoly potential for the majors than for efficiency of fuel use, and eventually that's going down. The fact that Boeing is buying Embraer's civilian side and Airbus has bought in to Bombardier shows how they think the future will play out.

FlyingKat
05-07-2018, 09:20 AM
Isn’t United trying to reduce the 50 seat fleet? Especially in ORD?

That was pre Kirby. In November 2016 United indefinitely deferred the 737-700s it planned to use to replace 50 seat flying and is expected to convert those orders to larger versions of the 737.

UAL is planning on expanding flying this summer in DEN and ORD, and wants to make ORD a fortress hub like DL has in Atlanta. UAL wants TSA to increase the utilization on its aircraft and pickup an extra 1000 hours of flying. Also Air Wiskey was brought in as part of this expansion. UAL has reached its cap on large RJs, so they are depending on 50 seaters for a large part of this expansion. UAL management expects to get scope relief for large RJs in this next contract to make their numbers similar to Delta, but we will see if they get it. TSA is still probably going to have more flying than we can handle from UAL.

PontiusPilot
05-07-2018, 09:40 AM
Isnít United trying to reduce the 50 seat fleet?

Long term, yes. Short term, no. My guess is the result of the scope relief tug-of-war will likely play a large role in their strategy.

da42pilot
05-08-2018, 08:18 AM
What do you guys fly out of RDU, Express or Eagle?

brokepilot2
05-08-2018, 02:32 PM
What do you guys fly out of RDU, Express or Eagle?

Eagle.

They say they're looking into keeping RDU open to staff charter flights. That's code for "RDU will be closing soon."

FlyingKat
05-08-2018, 04:28 PM
Long term, yes. Short term, no. My guess is the result of the scope relief tug-of-war will likely play a large role in their strategy.

Probably correct. Pre Kirby United was on a track to bring the 50 seat flying to mainline with a limited number of larger RJs. Post Kirby United wants to negotiate for more large RJs and have some 50 seaters. Depends on what they can get the pilots to go for. The market for pilots is going to force some big changes on UAL and the way it operates. Will be interesting to see what they do over the next year.

brokepilot2
05-08-2018, 06:45 PM
Probably correct. Pre Kirby United was on a track to bring the 50 seat flying to mainline with a limited number of larger RJs. Post Kirby United wants to negotiate for more large RJs and have some 50 seaters. Depends on what they can get the pilots to go for. The market for pilots is going to force some big changes on UAL and the way it operates. Will be interesting to see what they do over the next year.

Based on what UAL has done thus far, I suspect they'll bury their heads in the sand and say "We still have XX,XXX applications on file, there's no shortage of pilots." And we'll all sit back, crack open a cold one, and watch the regionals crash and burn

Belushi
05-08-2018, 07:35 PM
Eagle.

They say they're looking into keeping RDU open to staff charter flights. That's code for "RDU will be closing soon."


Could you explain

brokepilot2
05-08-2018, 07:58 PM
Could you explain

We don't do enough charter flights to justify having a whole base devoted to just doing charters. RDU will likely close around the same time as IAD/DCA. IMHO, I think they said what they did to provide a slight glimmer of hope for the folks who live in RDU. They know if they tell people that it's for sure closing, many of them will leave. They need those pilots to stay through the summer to finish out the AA contract.

FlyingKat
05-09-2018, 05:29 AM
Based on what UAL has done thus far, I suspect they'll bury their heads in the sand and say "We still have XX,XXX applications on file, there's no shortage of pilots." And we'll all sit back, crack open a cold one, and watch the regionals crash and burn

Could happen as well. The only reason I think you may see a change is Kirby because he was involved in setting up the flows at American. However bureaucratic inertia is a hard thing to overcome, and I never underestimate the ability of TSA Holdings or UAL management to screw something up.

havick206
05-09-2018, 05:55 AM
Could happen as well. The only reason I think you may see a change is Kirby because he was involved in setting up the flows at American. However bureaucratic inertia is a hard thing to overcome, and I never underestimate the ability of TSA Holdings or UAL management to screw something up.

Yes donít forget the very people Kirby screwed are now in the big league and can vote against his one trick pony idea which appears to be the consensus on not giving any scope relief if you read the United thread.

FlyingKat
05-09-2018, 09:04 AM
Yes donít forget the very people Kirby screwed are now in the big league and can vote against his one trick pony idea which appears to be the consensus on not giving any scope relief if you read the United thread.

Yes but they have talked big before and given in for $$$. Never underestimate the ability of a pilot group to give up scope for their own self interest.

NobodyLikesMe
05-09-2018, 03:11 PM
Yes but they have talked big before and given in for $$$. Never underestimate the ability of a pilot group to give up scope for their own self interest.



^^^^^^^^
This



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