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View Full Version : ABX desperation..


mukalel
05-04-2018, 02:36 PM
Just saw that ABX the premier B767 worldwide ACMI operator just dropped their minimums to 1500 hours in an effort to attract flight instructors to join their ever shrinking fleet of 767s ... Ohh did i also mention the loss of lines again for next month that puts a lot of people back on reserve?? Its just amazing how this is the only airlines in the cargo business not growing at this time.. And yet according to soapy, we are adequately staffed with loads of resumes on file.. just amazing all the lies they tell you around here..

Now we can start to see all the talent that shows up here.. people over 60 with multiple dui's and messed up records and offcourse the freshly minted ATP instructors:. Next thing you know ABX will offer restricted ATP and a multi engine rating in their 767 sim using their 142 certificate.. kudos ABX...


suddenimpact
05-04-2018, 02:54 PM
Now we can start to see all the talent that shows up here.. people over 60 with multiple dui's and messed up records and offcourse the freshly minted ATP instructors:. Next thing you know ABX will offer restricted ATP and a multi engine rating in their 767 sim using their 142 certificate.. kudos ABX...


Sounds like a description of the Atlas ExCo and what Atlas management is doing.

mukalel
05-04-2018, 03:21 PM
Sounds like a description of the Atlas ExCo and what Atlas management is doing.

Maby they have deviced this plan together.. lol


tiredofjrm
05-04-2018, 04:31 PM
Heard they interviewed a guy last month who couldnít speak English. Iím not sure how he got an ATP?? He had less than 2000 hours, and already 4 failed checkrides.

They are already scraping the bottom of the barrel.

2lowflaps
05-04-2018, 05:32 PM
Folks this might just be the end for ABX. When an airline wonít even continue negotiations, update the equipment on its fleet, flys around with a bunch of DIs, lowers their hiring minimums in this environment, shrinks the fleet, constantly violates the CBA, canít even fill a class of 6. Brings in a President that brags about laying off 4000 people and shuting down an airline. Looks to me like they are just squeezing every nickel out of the place before they shut it down.

Kougarok
05-04-2018, 05:59 PM
Folks this might just be the end for ABX. When an airline wonít even continue negotiations, update the equipment on its fleet, flys around with a bunch of DIs, lowers their hiring minimums in this environment, shrinks the fleet, constantly violates the CBA, canít even fill a class of 6. Brings in a President that brags about laying off 4000 people and shuting down an airline. Looks to me like they are just squeezing every nickel out of the place before they shut it down.

Words of wisdom. I have my exit plans...

johnny150
05-04-2018, 07:23 PM
MGT has spoke of downgrading Captains... this place is shrinking....

Otterbox
05-04-2018, 07:44 PM
Just saw that ABX the premier B767 worldwide ACMI operator just dropped their minimums to 1500 hours in an effort to attract flight instructors to join their ever shrinking fleet of 767s ... Ohh did i also mention the loss of lines again for next month that puts a lot of people back on reserve?? Its just amazing how this is the only airlines in the cargo business not growing at this time.. And yet according to soapy, we are adequately staffed with loads of resumes on file.. just amazing all the lies they tell you around here..

Now we can start to see all the talent that shows up here.. people over 60 with multiple dui's and messed up records and offcourse the freshly minted ATP instructors:. Next thing you know ABX will offer restricted ATP and a multi engine rating in their 767 sim using their 142 certificate.. kudos ABX...

They’re being punished for the strike and embarrassing ATSG management with Bezos.

suddenimpact
05-04-2018, 09:42 PM
ACMI and the commuters both have this problem. You become too much trouble, they shift the planes and flying to one of the other carriers in the group. Something to keep in the back of your mind unless you have a rock solid scope clause.

wjcandee
05-05-2018, 12:18 AM
Well, I don't see ATSG shutting down ABX as long as it continues to want the DHL business and DHL still wants to use ABX. Remember that, as between the two ATSG carriers, the DHL 767 flying (or at least most of it) would appear to be locked in at ABX, so there's no potential whipsaw with ATI. This is in part due to the scope language concerning transfer by ATSG of ABX aircraft to directly-competing carriers.

However, DHL seems to have some kind of antipathy for ABX, because it has consistently-reduced the number of frames that ABX flies, while farming the work out to other carriers, notably Atlas and Kalitta. DHL has called upon ABX to fly aircraft (and ATSG to lease it aircraft) when it has needed the lift, but the general trajectory has been downhill.

ABX has some work rules that make certain flights less-expensive to operate with Atlas and Kalitta. So new business might be inclined to go to other carriers, to the extent that the other carriers can staff it. Some of the forwarders, etc., who hire the lift on the low-margin South American and Caribbean stuff seem to be using some of the smaller carriers, like the revitalized Amerijet and the new NAC operation in MIA. I understand that that business was generally sneered-at, and susceptible to competition from the little guys insofar as it is somewhat less time-definite, but it did generate some flight hours.

I personally don't anticipate that Amazon is going to be expanding its fleet beyond 40 aircraft anytime soon, so even if it was inclined to give ABX any more work, it's hard to see that happening within the next year or so. It's also not clear what size of aircraft Amazon is going to be looking at to serve whatever new nodes it adds to its network, given that Amazon will have picked off the low-hanging fruit by the time it reaches 40 aircraft. 767s may be larger than needed for a good number of potential new routes.

The six 767-200 dry leases were only for 5 years, so whether they will be extended and if so for how long is another open question. ATSG can't move those frames directly to a competing carrier, but there's nothing to prevent Amazon from chucking them and replacing them with 767-300s to be converted three or so years from now, when the supply of used -300ERs in the right price range will be on the rise (absent some decision by FedEx or UPS to enter the converted-767 market in a big way). And those frames could be flown by anyone.

I do think that the idea of a Target or WalMart or similar big logistics player using a private air fleet to serve a limited number of lanes is realistic, even advisable, and ATSG is at least competitive in its proven ability to help set up such a system. But I don't see that as yielding an opportunity for more than a limited number of frames. Nevertheless, it is one of a number of opportunities that might be available to ABX in a rising domestic economy, which I hope will continue.

nitefr8dog
05-05-2018, 03:47 AM
Well, I don't see ATSG shutting down ABX as long as it continues to want the DHL business and DHL still wants to use ABX. Remember that, as between the two ATSG carriers, the DHL 767 flying (or at least most of it) would appear to be locked in at ABX, so there's no potential whipsaw with ATI. This is in part due to the scope language concerning transfer by ATSG of ABX aircraft to directly-competing carriers.

However, DHL seems to have some kind of antipathy for ABX, because it has consistently-reduced the number of frames that ABX flies, while farming the work out to other carriers, notably Atlas and Kalitta. DHL has called upon ABX to fly aircraft (and ATSG to lease it aircraft) when it has needed the lift, but the general trajectory has been downhill.

ABX has some work rules that make certain flights less-expensive to operate with Atlas and Kalitta. So new business might be inclined to go to other carriers, to the extent that the other carriers can staff it. Some of the forwarders, etc., who hire the lift on the low-margin South American and Caribbean stuff seem to be using some of the smaller carriers, like the revitalized Amerijet and the new NAC operation in MIA. I understand that that business was generally sneered-at, and susceptible to competition from the little guys insofar as it is somewhat less time-definite, but it did generate some flight hours.

I personally don't anticipate that Amazon is going to be expanding its fleet beyond 40 aircraft anytime soon, so even if it was inclined to give ABX any more work, it's hard to see that happening within the next year or so. It's also not clear what size of aircraft Amazon is going to be looking at to serve whatever new nodes it adds to its network, given that Amazon will have picked off the low-hanging fruit by the time it reaches 40 aircraft. 767s may be larger than needed for a good number of potential new routes.

The six 767-200 dry leases were only for 5 years, so whether they will be extended and if so for how long is another open question. ATSG can't move those frames directly to a competing carrier, but there's nothing to prevent Amazon from chucking them and replacing them with 767-300s to be converted three or so years from now, when the supply of used -300ERs in the right price range will be on the rise (absent some decision by FedEx or UPS to enter the converted-767 market in a big way). And those frames could be flown by anyone.

I do think that the idea of a Target or WalMart or similar big logistics player using a private air fleet to serve a limited number of lanes is realistic, even advisable, and ATSG is at least competitive in its proven ability to help set up such a system. But I don't see that as yielding an opportunity for more than a limited number of frames. Nevertheless, it is one of a number of opportunities that might be available to ABX in a rising domestic economy, which I hope will continue.
You keep mentioning" moving aircraft to a direct competitor " you are talking about ATI correct? There is nothing in the scope language preventing ATSG from moving ABX 767's to another carrier other than ATI to fly DHL freight.

Hang10
05-05-2018, 08:05 AM
With so much flying going to other DHL carriers, When ATSGís contract expires in 2019. That will be the end of ATSG flying for DHL. ABX will lose more cities this year and the feast by the end of next! Who ever is the last guy leaving! Turn the lights out! They want pay the electric bill ether!

wjcandee
05-05-2018, 12:26 PM
You keep mentioning" moving aircraft to a direct competitor " you are talking about ATI correct? There is nothing in the scope language preventing ATSG from moving ABX 767's to another carrier other than ATI to fly DHL freight.

Well, the scope is broader than that. But as a practical matter for right now, yeah, ATI.

As to the other questions, there are six 767-300s that are leased until between 2019 and 2024. However, with respect to the 767-200s, i.e. rest of the DHL aircraft at ABX, the lease extensions expire in 10 months. They have cut it close before, but if we don't hear something in the next few months, formally or informally, that's 15-20 percent of the business of ATSG that might be going poof.

atpcliff
05-05-2018, 04:58 PM
I personally don't anticipate that Amazon is going to be expanding its fleet beyond 40 aircraft anytime soon, so even if it was inclined to give ABX any more work, it's hard to see that happening within the next year or so. It's also not clear what size of aircraft Amazon is going to be looking at to serve whatever new nodes it adds to its network, given that Amazon will have picked off the low-hanging fruit by the time it reaches 40 aircraft. 767s may be larger than needed for a good number of potential new routes.

Persistent rumours from SEA based media, that Amazon will be buying 60-100 767s from Boeing soon...and rumours that Boeing is working on a plan to add another 767 assembly line. According to industry analysts, Amazon is (like Atlas) looking at getting A-330 converted freighters, as there are not enough 767s available.

Also, Amazon is looking to join FedEx in buying the new Cessna/Textron SkyCourier, the twin turboprop freight feeder. It will hold 3 regular sized ULDs, or 19 passengers. It looks like a miniature ATR. FedEx is doing this buy partly to (hopefully) ensure they have enough pilots going forward.
Cessna SkyCourier (http://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/skycourier)

nitefr8dog
05-05-2018, 05:08 PM
Looks like a DO228.....also 19 pax

wjcandee
05-05-2018, 05:35 PM
Hi, Cliff. I appreciate that information, but, me at least, I don't buy either one of those rumors. Could Amazon buy a smaller number of new-build 767-300? Sure, maybe 20 with 20 options or something. But to go 60 or a hundred makes very little sense to me. If they're smart, which they are, they will look at every option. But in terms of what they choose to buy, I don't see it, nor do I see a need for something as small as the sky courier when trying to service second day parcels. If you're doing 2-day, you can put them on the ground. I would be thinking 737 or maybe 757 as the next move. I also don't buy the idea that there aren't enough 767 available in the time frame in which new build would be available. The current supply of decent frames is very tight, but there will be some good, relatively young frames coming offline in the next couple of years. If Amazon needs a hundred 767, then, yeah, that's not going to be serviceable from the supply. But if they're talking smaller numbers, it should be doable. Finally, nothing substantial should be likely to happen until they have their own organic sort capability. DHL is maxed out in the day, so everything new ends up bypassing CVG. For a variety of reasons, that's not practical in volumes much higher than currently exist, without some interim capital investment, which doesn't make sense to make, before the sort is available. Doesn't mean they won't do it, of course, but logically the plan should be closer to what I'm thinking it's going to be.

nitefr8dog
05-05-2018, 06:05 PM
"Well, the scope is broader than that. But as a practical matter for right now, yeah, ATI."

Not the part that matters!

wjcandee
05-05-2018, 08:51 PM
"Well, the scope is broader than that. But as a practical matter for right now, yeah, ATI."

Not the part that matters!

I think you're saying that the 767-200s could be moved to Atlas or Kalitta, which is true.

It's also possible that DHL could let the leases expire on some or all of them over the next few years and move to newly-converted 767-300s or something else, dry-leased from Titan or whomever.

If DHL is looking for reliability -- which I have never been persuaded that they actually are -- then it makes zero sense to push more aircraft over to Atlas. But the interconnection between the two companies may continue to drive frames in that direction.

Whitesnake
05-05-2018, 10:14 PM
For the record, here are the minimums for UPS, ABX, and FEDEX:

UPS First Officer Minimum Requirements
∑ Hold a current unrestricted ATP certificate with an Airplane category multi-engine class rating and English proficiency endorsement
∑ Hold a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
∑ Hold an FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit
∑ Hold a valid passport
∑ Have authorization to work in the United States
∑ Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total fixed-wing pilot time

ABX First Office Minimum Requirements
∑ Unrestricted ATP (Airline Transport Rating) with an Airplane category multi-engine class rating and English proficiency endorsement (or the ability to obtain)
∑ 1,500 hours total fixed-wing flying time
∑ First Class Medical
∑ Legally authorized to work in the United States and Canada
∑ Current passport with 3 years validity remaining and no restrictions on international travel
∑ FCC radio/telephone permit

FedEx First Officer Minimum Requirements
∑ Commercial Pilot Certificate with Multi-engine and Instrument rating without limitations
∑ ATP Certificate
∑ Must pass FAA mandated drug screen
∑ Must have 20/20 correctable vision
∑ Recency and type of experience is considered
∑ Meet requirements for and currently hold First Class Medical certification
∑ Bachelor's Degree from an accredited college or university
∑ Eligibility for rapid visa issuance, issued by offices in the United States to fly to any FedEx destination.
∑ Eligibility for issuance of US Security Clearance
∑ 1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500). A minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500 or greater) is preferred. Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. Note: FedEx considers only pilot time in fixed wing aircraft toward minimum qualifications. This does not include simulator, helicopter, flight engineer, bombardier, navigator, RIO, EWO, WSO, NFO, or Special Crew.
∑ All certificates and ratings required to be U.S.A. FAA issued










Pete

nitefr8dog
05-06-2018, 08:13 AM
"I Think you're saying that the 767-200s could be moved to Atlas or Kalitta, which is true"

I am saying ANY ABX aircraft 200 or 300 could be moved to Atlas..Kallita..Southern, etc. Just not ATI

wjcandee
05-06-2018, 05:15 PM
"I Think you're saying that the 767-200s could be moved to Atlas or Kalitta, which is true"

I am saying ANY ABX aircraft 200 or 300 could be moved to Atlas..Kallita..Southern, etc. Just not ATI

Correct. I just mentioned the 200s because that's what's coming up on lease expiration and CMI expiration. But you are also correct because if they really wanted to just move the aircraft, most CMI agreements contain a 60 or 90 or 180 day cancellation for convenience clause. Leases typically don't. And I think I remember one of the financial conference calls in which the CEO said that none of the CAM leases have termination for convenience.

l8fr82hub
05-06-2018, 09:11 PM
I am saying ANY ABX aircraft 200 or 300 could be moved to Atlas..Kallita..Southern, etc. Just not ATI
...and really thatís the only thing that matters...

motorclutch
05-06-2018, 09:20 PM
Not gonna matter in 4 days. Stay tuned.

wjcandee
05-07-2018, 07:40 AM
Not gonna matter in 4 days. Stay tuned.

Waiting for Godot.

Globemaster2827
05-07-2018, 09:36 AM
For the record, here are the minimums for UPS, ABX, and FEDEX:

UPS First Officer Minimum Requirements
∑ Hold a current unrestricted ATP certificate with an Airplane category multi-engine class rating and English proficiency endorsement
∑ Hold a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
∑ Hold an FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit
∑ Hold a valid passport
∑ Have authorization to work in the United States
∑ Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total fixed-wing pilot time

ABX First Office Minimum Requirements
∑ Unrestricted ATP (Airline Transport Rating) with an Airplane category multi-engine class rating and English proficiency endorsement (or the ability to obtain)
∑ 1,500 hours total fixed-wing flying time
∑ First Class Medical
∑ Legally authorized to work in the United States and Canada
∑ Current passport with 3 years validity remaining and no restrictions on international travel
∑ FCC radio/telephone permit

FedEx First Officer Minimum Requirements
∑ Commercial Pilot Certificate with Multi-engine and Instrument rating without limitations
∑ ATP Certificate
∑ Must pass FAA mandated drug screen
∑ Must have 20/20 correctable vision
∑ Recency and type of experience is considered
∑ Meet requirements for and currently hold First Class Medical certification
∑ Bachelor's Degree from an accredited college or university
∑ Eligibility for rapid visa issuance, issued by offices in the United States to fly to any FedEx destination.
∑ Eligibility for issuance of US Security Clearance
∑ 1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500). A minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500 or greater) is preferred. Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls. Note: FedEx considers only pilot time in fixed wing aircraft toward minimum qualifications. This does not include simulator, helicopter, flight engineer, bombardier, navigator, RIO, EWO, WSO, NFO, or Special Crew.
∑ All certificates and ratings required to be U.S.A. FAA issued










Pete

Minimums.... I'd love to see the resume of a successful candidate at ATI, K4, Atlas, ABX, National, Centurion, Omni, or Amerijet versus the successful candidate at UPS and FedEx.

It's not that you're necessarily a bad candidate if you're at an ACMI, but you're most likely building toward UPS or FedEx. I know many of the FOs I'm flying with at Atlas right now are merely building their resume.

midnightshuttle
05-10-2018, 06:08 AM
Persistent rumours from SEA based media, that Amazon will be buying 60-100 767s from Boeing soon...and rumours that Boeing is working on a plan to add another 767 assembly line. According to industry analysts, Amazon is (like Atlas) looking at getting A-330 converted freighters, as there are not enough 767s available.

Also, Amazon is looking to join FedEx in buying the new Cessna/Textron SkyCourier, the twin turboprop freight feeder. It will hold 3 regular sized ULDs, or 19 passengers. It looks like a miniature ATR. FedEx is doing this buy partly to (hopefully) ensure they have enough pilots going forward.
Cessna SkyCourier (http://cessna.txtav.com/en/turboprop/skycourier)

The amazon rumor has been thoroughly squashed by Boeing. Due to a long layover weíve had multiple crews take the plant tour and all have asked. They too have heard the rumor at boeing and would love such publicity but its false. The new 767s are so different avionics wise I think it could lead to sim or diff trainging if employeed at an airline with legacy aircraft.

Keep in mind the ďamazonĒ planes here at ATI are flying mostly empty @ 30k lbs average and 5 positions. I would gladly post pics if I could do so with certain anonymity.

This amazon experience/experiment will no doubt go narrow body in the near future.

You can still keep the ďhopeĒ going with bag tags though.

Down2Wire
05-10-2018, 08:12 AM
Iím sure this has been asked but I have searched and canít find anything

What are the schedules like at ABX?

Is training AQP?

Home based or based only at CVG?

Thanks :(

mukalel
05-10-2018, 08:21 AM
Iím sure this has been asked but I have searched and canít find anything

What are the schedules like at ABX?

Is training AQP?

Home based or based only at CVG?

Thanks :(

ABX pilots and pilots from other airlines are picketing today at the ATSG shareholders meeting in Wilmington, Ohio. Hopefully the shareholders will be able to get the word about the real situation at ABX Air.. they are being fooled by management by telling them lies about the state of the company. Sure they are making money every quarter but they could be making a lot more if the company is run properly.. if ABX should venture and get more business and grow instead of focusing just on leasing airplanes to make money.. there is more money to be had in this environment and ATSG is not able to do justice to the shareholders while taking care of its employees the way they are running the company now. They are robbing both the shareholders and employees to get rich. Joe Hete, the head of ATSG has an ego problem towards the ABX pilot group and he is having Dave Soaper, the CEO of ABX do all the dirty work to try and shrink ABX; all at a cost to the shareholders in the end...

All shareholders beware....

nitefr8dog
05-10-2018, 08:25 AM
ABX pilots and pilots from other airlines are picketing today at the ATSG shareholders meeting in Wilmington, Ohio. Hopefully the shareholders will be able to get the word about the real situation at ABX Air.. they are being fooled by management by telling them lies about the state of the company. Sure they are making money every quarter but they could be making a lot more if the company is run properly.. if ABX should venture and get more business and grow instead of focusing just on leasing airplanes to make money.. there is more money to be had in this environment and ATSG is not able to do justice to the shareholders while taking care of its employees the way they are running the company now. They are robbing both the shareholders and employees to get rich. Joe Hete, the head of ATSG has an ego problem towards the ABX pilot group and he is having Dave Soaper, the CEO of ABX do all the dirty work to try and shrink ABX; all at a cost to the shareholders in the end...

All shareholders beware....
All valid points but....I am trying to see what any of this has to do with his question?

mukalel
05-10-2018, 08:47 AM
All valid points but....I am trying to see what any of this has to do with his question?

What this has to do with his question is he needs to read this so he can make an informed decision of not coming here till abx is up to industry standard.. if this person really is even considering he has to do more research.. all info is found on page one of the Abx hiring apc forum so im not sure about the whole i searched and did not find deal.. but here it is anyway.. https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/94342-abx-air-hiring.html

tiredofjrm
05-10-2018, 09:55 AM
Isnít this day 4?

Whatís the good word Bubba?

Jurassic Jet
05-10-2018, 10:09 AM
Not gonna matter in 4 days. Stay tuned.

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Jurassic_Park_Feces_5395.jpg

motorclutch
05-10-2018, 11:26 AM
My sources suck..........no soup for you!

Industry Strnd
05-10-2018, 12:19 PM
What are the schedules like at ABX?

17 days in a row 13 off...some lines 2 trips per Month some 3 trips per month and then required work on your days off for Jr mann. You will be tagged for it.

Is training AQP? No

Home based or based only at CVG? Only cvg

Move along nothing to see here, management hates pilots and treats them with threats of furlough and no signs of a new contract. 40% have quit in last 2 years.

wjcandee
05-10-2018, 02:01 PM
My sources suck..........no soup for you!

Ah, well. I was hoping for something interesting, but I guess not right now.

One thing that was curious in the shareholder presentation (besides the fact that mgmt said probably no ABX contract until at least next year) was the asset table that projected 4 more airframes moving from CMI/lease to mere Dry Lease this year. One of those could be 399CM, which is the Aloha aircraft, but an EWAG is that the rest are aircraft that are currently operated by ABX. I think the original number was 5, and of course N775AX just left for Europe. It's hard to imagine another 3-4 aircraft leaving ABX this year, but that sure seems like what the presentation suggests. They seem to love that wet-to-dry lease program, but if they shrink ABX too much, all that overhead falls onto a lot less airline revenue. I understand that the leasing business is a lot easier and has a much-higher ROI (at the moment) for Hete and Co., but the fact is that robust operations in all segments of their business would be better still, even if it means that they have to continue to deal with those pesky pilots... ;)

tiredofjrm
05-10-2018, 04:23 PM
Yea I too had hoped there was some news.
Heard of two more guys leaving. One is a legacy guy.
Idk why Iím still here?? I must be seeing carrots where there arenít any.
Itís time to get my head outta my ass..

Kougarok
05-10-2018, 05:07 PM
Yea I too had hoped there was some news.
Heard of two more guys leaving. One is a legacy guy.
Idk why Iím still here?? I must be seeing carrots where there arenít any.
Itís time to get my head outta my ass..

Yeah if I wasnít so close to retirement I would bail!

tiredofjrm
05-11-2018, 06:19 AM
I just heard a rumor that we lost SJO.

All the nice layovers are going away.

gumpscheck
05-11-2018, 07:02 AM
I just heard a rumor that we lost SJO.

All the nice layovers are going away.

Where did you hear this? Is this coming from the LAX MX?

motorclutch
05-11-2018, 08:14 AM
Just checked. Rumor only

Industry Strnd
05-11-2018, 09:30 AM
Was doing the math the other day from early retirements, medical outs there are 6 cpts and 4 fos leaving abx over the next 4 months. And those are the ones who are speaking up. Remains to be seen how many more get hired elsewhere.

Jurassic Jet
05-11-2018, 09:45 AM
Was doing the math the other day from early retirements, medical outs there are 6 cpts and 4 fos leaving abx over the next 4 months. And those are the ones who are speaking up. Remains to be seen how many more get hired elsewhere.

Yeah I think itís probably going to be a tad higher than that.

flyfranz
05-11-2018, 05:48 PM
In SJO now. They canceled the flight down here. Ended up commercialing down here to fly the plane back. The guys at Aeromex are saying this is the last SJO leg for ABX. I guess we canceled on them too many times and they went with another vendor.

Not sure who your sources are Bubba, but I hope they are right.

motorclutch
05-11-2018, 05:52 PM
Iíll check

woog315
05-11-2018, 09:47 PM
In SJO now. They canceled the flight down here. Ended up commercialing down here to fly the plane back. The guys at Aeromex are saying this is the last SJO leg for ABX. I guess we canceled on them too many times and they went with another vendor.

Not sure who your sources are Bubba, but I hope they are right.

No idea why aeromex guys are saying that (could be true or not, I dunno) but commercialing in to SJO to operate aeromex is nothing new... I've got it on my line later this month and no indication that it's cancelled...

nitefr8dog
05-12-2018, 04:57 AM
No idea why aeromex guys are saying that (could be true or not, I dunno) but commercialing in to SJO to operate aeromex is nothing new... I've got it on my line later this month and no indication that it's cancelled...
Or..you could just look on the Flight Webpage ...look at the left side tab under Flight Schedules. Says "removed Central America stops (GUA and SJO) from schedule" Looks like additional LAX/GDL/LAX on day 4 and LAX/MEX/LAX on day 7 instead....so maybe MEX/GDL needed additional lift?

woog315
05-12-2018, 08:40 AM
Or..you could just look on the Flight Webpage ...look at the left side tab under Flight Schedules. Says "removed Central America stops (GUA and SJO) from schedule" Looks like additional LAX/GDL/LAX on day 4 and LAX/MEX/LAX on day 7 instead....so maybe MEX/GDL needed additional lift?

Beats me buddy, they change flights constantly especially on SAS and Aeromex. I'm just saying Aeromex SJO is still on the schedule, which means yesterday wasn't the "last leg". And commercialing to SJO for Aeromex is normal, which he seemed surprised it happened.

nitefr8dog
05-12-2018, 10:58 AM
Beats me buddy, they change flights constantly especially on SAS and Aeromex. I'm just saying Aeromex SJO is still on the schedule, which means yesterday wasn't the "last leg". And commercialing to SJO for Aeromex is normal, which he seemed surprised it happened.
It was the last SJO for AeroMex...they actually have not changed the SJO trip since it started....ABX has departed LAX on Wed pm's and arrived in SJO on thurs am from the beginning. Also the return thru GUA (and sometimes HUX for gas depending on loads and winds) to LAX has not changed. (For a short period we stopped in San Pedro Sula before HUX but only for fuel). All repeated on Sat pm/ Sun am. The only changes have been by ABX concerning layover length. If you take the time to look at the flight schedule it won't beat you anymore. It's cancelled in black and white.

woog315
05-12-2018, 02:00 PM
It was the last SJO for AeroMex...they actually have not changed the SJO trip since it started....ABX has departed LAX on Wed pm's and arrived in SJO on thurs am from the beginning. Also the return thru GUA (and sometimes HUX for gas depending on loads and winds) to LAX has not changed. (For a short period we stopped in San Pedro Sula before HUX but only for fuel). All repeated on Sat pm/ Sun am. The only changes have been by ABX concerning layover length. If you take the time to look at the flight schedule it won't beat you anymore. It's cancelled in black and white.

I am scheduled to fly SJO-GUA-LAX in a couple of weeks. Is that not Aeromex? Is that trip done for several customers? It is on my schedule, it is still listed in scheduled flights. Is this not the flight we are talking about? Talking to you is so confusing.

flyfranz
05-12-2018, 03:16 PM
Itís my understanding that Aeromex is a freight forwarder and not the actual customer. We had too many mechanicals and cancelations and the actual customer had had enough.
Aeromex in LA said to me that the run is done. No more!!! Caput. Gone. No more SJO flights.
Iím supposedly on the last SJO flight before the new vendor takes over.

nitefr8dog
05-12-2018, 04:54 PM
I am scheduled to fly SJO-GUA-LAX in a couple of weeks. Is that not Aeromex? Is that trip done for several customers? It is on my schedule, it is still listed in scheduled flights. Is this not the flight we are talking about? Talking to you is so confusing.
Wow....this is like talking to a child. LOOK AT THE FLIGHT DEPARTMENT WEBSITE UNDER FLIGHT SCHEDULES! SJO/GUA ARE Cancelled! All of the AeroMex flying out of LAX is not cancelled just the SJO/GUA portion. The schedule still shows LAX/MEX/GDL flying. AGAIN look at the Flight scheduled on the Flight webpage.

woog315
05-12-2018, 06:48 PM
Wow....this is like talking to a child. LOOK AT THE FLIGHT DEPARTMENT WEBSITE UNDER FLIGHT SCHEDULES! SJO/GUA ARE Cancelled! All of the AeroMex flying out of LAX is not cancelled just the SJO/GUA portion. The schedule still shows LAX/MEX/GDL flying. AGAIN look at the Flight scheduled on the Flight webpage.

I think you need to take a deep breath and think about things, dear friend. I am telling you its on my schedule SJO-GUA-HUX-LAX and my airfare to SJO just booked 2 days ago. I do not care about the other Aeromex flying, I am talking about SJO/GUA. Unless they cancelled with no notice and immediately had a second operator ready to go, it doesnt make a lot of sense for them to be booking me airfare. I did in fact look under flight schedules, and I do in fact see my flight there. It also wouldn't make a lot of sense, given we are still doing their other flying, for them to angrily storm out with no notice given that these contracts have you know... terms and stuff. Have a good one.

MotorCuck
05-12-2018, 07:49 PM
Wow....this is like talking to a child. LOOK AT THE FLIGHT DEPARTMENT WEBSITE UNDER FLIGHT SCHEDULES! SJO/GUA ARE Cancelled! All of the AeroMex flying out of LAX is not cancelled just the SJO/GUA portion. The schedule still shows LAX/MEX/GDL flying. AGAIN look at the Flight scheduled on the Flight webpage.

Hey Soapy! You see this?? Your boy can navigate a website from the 80's!!!

Reactivity
05-12-2018, 08:16 PM
I think you need to take a deep breath and think about things, dear friend. I am telling you its on my schedule SJO-GUA-HUX-LAX and my airfare to SJO just booked 2 days ago.

The schedule that drops the SJO/GUA legs is effective 5/17. Your schedule is looking iffy. Be prepared for a change. This wouldn't be the first time that somebody didn't talk to somebody else.

woog315
05-12-2018, 08:17 PM
The schedule that drops the SJO/GUA legs is effective 5/17. Your schedule is looking iffy. Be prepared for a change. This wouldn't be the first time that somebody didn't talk to somebody else.

Yeah, I'm ready for that. I'm mostly just having a good time watching nitefr8 spin through the roof (love u nitefr8)

point432
05-12-2018, 08:25 PM
Disregard. Reactivity beat me to it. Woog, it took about a week for EWR to drop off my schedule. You know how time flies around here.

nitefr8dog
05-13-2018, 12:12 PM
Yeah, I'm ready for that. I'm mostly just having a good time watching nitefr8 spin through the roof (love u nitefr8)
It's also been entertaining watching you putting your trust in "your schedule" and the fact you have a recently purchased ticket! The SJO flight only runs Sun and Thurs....the Sun flight is done which means you would have a commercial flight on 5/16 for the 5/17 flight. Any other dates would mean your ticket will most likely be cancelled.....my money says you are reassigned MTY.

abxflyr
05-13-2018, 12:41 PM
Girls, Girls.....you're both pretty! Now go get yourself a bottle of that free hot water (its summertime now..) and toast each other to our every so dimming future.

Tumbl3weed
05-13-2018, 12:52 PM
MGT has spoke of downgrading Captains... this place is shrinking....

If ABX surpluses Captains in this market, theyíll never be able to fill another new hire class and the 151ers will leave as fast a humanly possible. Will probably shrink faster than they think.

nitefr8dog
05-13-2018, 01:45 PM
I think you need to take a deep breath and think about things, dear friend. I am telling you its on my schedule SJO-GUA-HUX-LAX and my airfare to SJO just booked 2 days ago. I do not care about the other Aeromex flying, I am talking about SJO/GUA. Unless they cancelled with no notice and immediately had a second operator ready to go, it doesnt make a lot of sense for them to be booking me airfare. I did in fact look under flight schedules, and I do in fact see my flight there. It also wouldn't make a lot of sense, given we are still doing their other flying, for them to angrily storm out with no notice given that these contracts have you know... terms and stuff. Have a good one.
Just looked...2208 on 05/17 is already cancelled....your eating beans and rice in MTY!

woog315
05-13-2018, 02:49 PM
Just looked...2208 on 05/17 is already cancelled....your eating beans and rice in MTY!

buddy, go for a walk or something. That's not my flight anyways... And we dont get free beans and rice in MTY anymore because everyone cried about the 'no potable water" sign in the hotel in Mexico- the country with no potable water anywhere.

nitefr8dog
05-13-2018, 03:30 PM
buddy, go for a walk or something. That's not my flight anyways... And we dont get free beans and rice in MTY anymore because everyone cried about the 'no potable water" sign in the hotel in Mexico- the country with no potable water anywhere.
It's more fun torturing you......so which is it? You said it was on your schedule, you already have tickets, and you are watching it? Not your flight it was the only one left!

woog315
05-13-2018, 03:58 PM
It's more fun torturing you......so which is it? You said it was on your schedule, you already have tickets, and you are watching it? Not your flight it was the only one left!

Uh it's scheduled further out also. I'm literally looking at it right now

nitefr8dog
05-13-2018, 07:41 PM
Uh it's scheduled further out also. I'm literally looking at it right now
Not according to crew scheduling ..its literally cancelled...you are going to MTY...you will have to buy your beans and rice!

woog315
05-13-2018, 09:01 PM
Not according to crew scheduling ..its literally cancelled...you are going to MTY...you will have to buy your beans and rice!

You are wrong, it did finally change though. LAX-GDL-LAX followed by LAX-GDL-MEX-LAX. deadhead to LAX on both ends- on our plane out there, commercial back to cvg. Apparently theyve added in new GDL and MEX stuff, so I think the narrative that they yanked the flights because of bad performance is incorrect.

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 03:10 AM
You are wrong, it did finally change though. LAX-GDL-LAX followed by LAX-GDL-MEX-LAX. deadhead to LAX on both ends- on our plane out there, commercial back to cvg. Apparently theyve added in new GDL and MEX stuff, so I think the narrative that they yanked the flights because of bad performance is incorrect.
I posted that they added the Mexico flying instead of SJO/GUA like.....6 posts back. You need to pay attention. I also said maybe they needed additional Mexico lift. You don't comprehend too well do you. I guess now you are starting to finally realize you will not be going to SJO huh? You can say it...you where wrong and confused. Everybody reading this thread already figured it out along time ago.

Reactivity
05-14-2018, 05:12 AM
If ABX surpluses Captains in this market, theyíll never be able to fill another new hire class and the 151ers will leave as fast a humanly possible. Will probably shrink faster than they think.

And that's why when that idea was floated, it was promptly shot down.

Jurassic Jet
05-14-2018, 06:14 AM
If you're an ABX pilot, check your email. JM just officially answered all the questions.

woog315
05-14-2018, 07:19 AM
I posted that they added the Mexico flying instead of SJO/GUA like.....6 posts back. You need to pay attention. I also said maybe they needed additional Mexico lift. You don't comprehend too well do you. I guess now you are starting to finally realize you will not be going to SJO huh? You can say it...you where wrong and confused. Everybody reading this thread already figured it out along time ago.

You still haven't caught on that I know and have just been watching you spin up for a laugh, have you? I told you several posts ago! Seriously man, have fun out there!

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 07:29 AM
You still haven't caught on that I know and have just been watching you spin up for a laugh, have you? I told you several posts ago! Seriously man, have fun out there!
And you have not caught on that you look like a complete idiot and everyone watching this thread thinks you are clueless....while you backpedal and cover your tracks. Nice try.

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 07:34 AM
You still haven't caught on that I know and have just been watching you spin up for a laugh, have you? I told you several posts ago! Seriously man, have fun out there!
Just like from your 1st post when you pleaded with Franz....."How can it be cancelled...its on my schedule...I have a ticket" haha too funny. Yes you knew all along. Clueless

woog315
05-14-2018, 07:38 AM
Pretty sure no one cares about petty internet squabbles, and we're both being laughed at. I did not know for the first post or two, then just started running with the argument because you were so wound up and so badly needed to be the guy that knows it all. You can think whatever you want, I'm just having fun here posting every few hours and watching you furiously check schedules and scribble notes and argue the ins and outs of schedules like you run the place. It went from funny to obnoxious- I'm not gonna post about this anymore so now's your chance to get the last word in (I know you need it!)

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 07:49 AM
Pretty sure no one cares about petty internet squabbles, and we're both being laughed at. I did not know for the first post or two, then just started running with the argument because you were so wound up and so badly needed to be the guy that knows it all. You can think whatever you want, I'm just having fun here posting every few hours and watching you furiously check schedules and scribble notes and argue the ins and outs of schedules like you run the place. It went from funny to obnoxious- I'm not gonna post about this anymore so now's your chance to get the last word in (I know you need it!)
Nice try....clueless. nobody is buying it!

flyfranz
05-14-2018, 07:51 AM
It looks my sources were wrong too. I was only half right. The run is cancelled. But due to fuel cost, and not poor performance. Its apparently been replaced with additional MEX flying.

redmanchew
05-14-2018, 09:04 AM
Wow nitefr8 takes stuff way too seriously for an online forum...you must be bored


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 09:47 AM
[QUOTE=redmanchew;2593689]Wow nitefr8 takes stuff way too seriously for an online forum...you must be bored



Too serious? I don't even have my pants on!

Kougarok
05-14-2018, 02:04 PM
Just so I have it straight. Aeromex has shifted the LAX flying but we really haven’t lost anything. nitefr8dog is happiest sitting around in his underpants. Does that about sum it up?

K

nitefr8dog
05-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Just so I have it straight. Aeromex has shifted the LAX flying but we really havenít lost anything. nitefr8dog is happiest sitting around in his underpants. Does that about sum it up?

K
Boxers....but yes that's it in a nutshell

tiredofjrm
05-16-2018, 10:48 PM
Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread.

ABX is hiring for June and July classes. They are now offering Hotel and per diem. WTH???

Can I get reimbursed please?

GeelErmo
05-17-2018, 06:35 AM
No CBA = No newhires. This place is so resistant.

nitefr8dog
05-19-2018, 03:35 AM
No CBA = No newhires. This place is so resistant.
And while ABX is trying to hire....20yr crewmembers are going to other carriers. That should say something...

tiredofjrm
05-19-2018, 04:15 PM
That's two FO's gone this month (that I know of).

This is a dying airline.....

GeelErmo
05-19-2018, 06:09 PM
That's two FO's gone this month (that I know of).

This is a dying airline.....

they both 151ners?

Jurassic Jet
05-19-2018, 07:12 PM
they both 151ners?

The one I just heard today is very senior.

johnny150
05-19-2018, 09:36 PM
The one I just heard today is very senior.


One left after 20+ years... this place is a complete joke


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Hang10
05-20-2018, 03:53 PM
And most everybody there is looking for another job are looking at retirement! Says a lot about how bad it is there!

motorclutch
05-20-2018, 09:21 PM
Gotta give it to our management. They created this **** storm and itís starting to get worse. Jr Manning is getting outrageous again, D6 days.....all the things that got the last management team fired. I wonder if regional Randy can save his boy? Better dust off that joke of a CV.

tiredofjrm
05-23-2018, 05:40 AM
I guess we just lost ATL. One more airplane worth of flying gone. It doesnít matter how many people quit or retire here....We just keep parking airplanes.

Jurassic Jet
05-23-2018, 05:50 AM
I guess we just lost ATL. One more airplane worth of flying gone. It doesnít matter how many people quit or retire here....We just keep parking airplanes.

Gotta admit. It takes real talent as a management team to shrink in this economy.

gumpscheck
05-23-2018, 06:20 AM
I guess we just lost ATL. One more airplane worth of flying gone. It doesnít matter how many people quit or retire here....We just keep parking airplanes.

Whatís the point of staying in this place? Itís obvious that JH doesnít want to agree with DHL for another -300. He rather have DHL walk away than show any kind of possible bright future to the ABX pilots. Probably Kalitta or Atlas will pick up the ATL with a -300.

Reactivity
05-23-2018, 06:42 AM
I guess we just lost ATL. One more airplane worth of flying gone. It doesnít matter how many people quit or retire here....We just keep parking airplanes.

Looking on the bright side, you'll be able to change your name soon.



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