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View Full Version : Cultural Rot at Envoy/AA


ag386
05-07-2018, 04:34 PM
Someone on the American thread posted the info below. It started out stating some information about the company culture and then went into the problems the AA pilots are having with their union. I only copied the information regarding the company.

In my time at Envoy, I saw the "company culture" as described below X 2. Eagle/Envoy has always been a punitive company and never one who tries incentives. In other words, they are a "stick only" company. Never any carrot. It's increasingly obvious that the culture has only degraded there beyond where it was with the previous AMR regime.

AA's status has been cheapened with US Airways taking over. From the cheap looking signage and new aircraft livery, nasty customer service and overall poisonous atmosphere, it's worth noting here that AA pilots have many of the same issues as Envoy pilots do.

Flow is good if that's the only way you can move on to better things but it's advisable to keep trying hard to get out of this "too big to fail" corporation.


By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.

After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.

Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.

A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.

In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.


bigtime209
05-07-2018, 04:53 PM
Guess I need to put my app into the sh|ttiest ULCC out there. All would be well.

SilentLurker
05-07-2018, 08:06 PM
Someone on the American thread posted the info below. It started out stating some information about the company culture and then went into the problems the AA pilots are having with their union. I only copied the information regarding the company.



In my time at Envoy, I saw the "company culture" as described below X 2. Eagle/Envoy has always been a punitive company and never one who tries incentives. In other words, they are a "stick only" company. Never any carrot. It's increasingly obvious that the culture has only degraded there beyond where it was with the previous AMR regime.



AA's status has been cheapened with US Airways taking over. From the cheap looking signage and new aircraft livery, nasty customer service and overall poisonous atmosphere, it's worth noting here that AA pilots have many of the same issues as Envoy pilots do.



Flow is good if that's the only way you can move on to better things but it's advisable to keep trying hard to get out of this "too big to fail" corporation.





By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.



After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.



Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.



A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.



In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.



ag386, the song below is dedicated to you. I highly encourage you to listen & read the lyrics.

https://youtu.be/jA5bc4q_Om8


450knotOffice
05-07-2018, 08:11 PM
Having spent two decades at Eagle, and now going on five years at AA, I can say that the day to day culture at AA and Eagle are worlds apart. No similarity, culturally, whatsoever.

tomgoodman
05-07-2018, 08:33 PM
https://youtu.be/jA5bc4q_Om8

Here’s the real song, with Joe Cocker & Leon Russell:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHA2afBxmbs

TransWorld
05-07-2018, 08:42 PM
And the real lyrics:

Joe Cocker - Cry Me A River Lyrics | MetroLyrics (http://www.metrolyrics.com/cry-me-a-river-lyrics-joe-cocker.html)

ChickHicks
05-08-2018, 03:56 AM
You want to talk about rot and toxic culture, I’ve been reading some of the Allegiant threads. Why you feel the need to keep stirring the pot here, is beyond me. It’s a shame your time at Eagle wasn’t better. The good thing is, you left and hopefully found a “better” place. Good luck to you.

Just make sure you don’t evacuate.

ag386
05-08-2018, 09:14 AM
Well, sounds like I touched a nerve with the Envoy guys that fawn all over their company.

I guess that means that the environment is every bit as bad as described in that post. If you are a perspective new hire at Envoy, beware, even the sh---est ULCC (arguably Frontier at present) is better than the sh---est regional (arguably Envoy at present.)

SkylineAviation
05-08-2018, 09:19 AM
Well, sounds like I touched a nerve with the Envoy guys that fawn all over their company.

I guess that means that the environment is every bit as bad as described in that post. If you are a perspective new hire at Envoy, beware, even the sh---est ULCC (arguably Frontier at present) is better than the sh---est regional (arguably Envoy at present.)

After all your arguing and posting I still for the life of me not understand that if your so happy with Allegiant why you come on here and post about how horrible Envoy is. You worked here and was fired, we know. You’re still upset about it but come on man, it’s time to move on. Not all of us need your enlightening, many of us have been here a while for one reason or another and are ok with that. Some of us really are getting closer to the end here and will be flowing.

AcesHigh
05-08-2018, 09:29 AM
Looks like somebody got stuck in homeroom looking out the window while everybody's outside playing during recess...

Can changes be made? Yes.
Is everything perfect here? No.

But I can tell you, every person I've personally flown with has been a pleasure to fly with.

blizzue
05-09-2018, 11:42 AM
Joe gets hired at Allegiant and comes to preach about how the flow is only good if you can't get hired anywhere else...

RyanP
05-10-2018, 06:08 PM
Joe gets hired at Allegiant and comes to preach about how the flow is only good if you can't get hired anywhere else...
Hah, no kidding.

I couldn't get hired elsewhere off the street even as a check airman. *At a Legacy carrier that I actually wanted to work for that is*. Now currently working at AA anyway, whether they wanted to hire me or not, haha, due to flow, and I am based at home. Paid Eagle dues. Flow worked contrary to garbage posted on the internet. Took a while but I have my seniority number now at the worlds largest airline before the biggest pilot retirement wave in history. Not a terrible place to be IMO. Envoy sucks, no denying it. All regionals suck. At least Envoy people have a backup plan B to get to a Legacy carrier. That does work.

PS, when I got hired at Eagle a little over a decade ago there was NO flow agreement for us, so counting that time to flow seems kind of stupid anyway, we just had flow backs from AA working at Eagle from a prior agreement that didn't apply to us and no promise of anything except $23/hr and a kick in the nuts regularly. Until what, something like 2012 when they gave us that deal? A Lot of BS happened in between back then and now, very few people hired for several years, there was a bankruptcy, consolidation, and all kinds of mess. That flow time will drop rapidly again. Just like the big drop from 2004-2007 with nobody hired. We went from 16 yrs on property to 11 yrs to flow overnight when it hit that gap. Another BIG drop in time will happen again when it hits the next hiring gaps. That's how it drops to 6-8 yrs. Again, despite BS internet beliefs. Seniority list says it all. Look at the hire dates/numbers. Do the math. Not that hard. :cool:

I guess I could have gotten hired at a turdbox like Allegiant years ago too since they called me incessantly from an app I put in back in like 2007 but why would I want to do that? Then I'd never get to AA.. well maybe I would one day in like 2034 after 12000 more flows/military pilots are hired and The pool is completely dried up. Then I could sit at the bottom of the stagnant seniority list for a couple years until retirement. :p

ag386
05-11-2018, 04:43 AM
Hah, no kidding.

I couldn't get hired elsewhere off the street even as a check airman. *At a Legacy carrier that I actually wanted to work for that is*. Now currently working at AA anyway, whether they wanted to hire me or not, haha, due to flow, and I am based at home. Paid Eagle dues. Flow worked contrary to garbage posted on the internet. Took a while but I have my seniority number now at the worlds largest airline before the biggest pilot retirement wave in history. Not a terrible place to be IMO. Envoy sucks, no denying it. All regionals suck. At least Envoy people have a backup plan B to get to a Legacy carrier. That does work.

PS, when I got hired at Eagle a little over a decade ago there was NO flow agreement for us, so counting that time to flow seems kind of stupid anyway, we just had flow backs from AA working at Eagle from a prior agreement that didn't apply to us and no promise of anything except $23/hr and a kick in the nuts regularly. Until what, something like 2012 when they gave us that deal? A Lot of BS happened in between back then and now, very few people hired for several years, there was a bankruptcy, consolidation, and all kinds of mess. That flow time will drop rapidly again. Just like the big drop from 2004-2007 with nobody hired. We went from 16 yrs on property to 11 yrs to flow overnight when it hit that gap. Another BIG drop in time will happen again when it hits the next hiring gaps. That's how it drops to 6-8 yrs. Again, despite BS internet beliefs. Seniority list says it all. Look at the hire dates/numbers. Do the math. Not that hard. :cool:

I guess I could have gotten hired at a turdbox like Allegiant years ago too since they called me incessantly from an app I put in back in like 2007 but why would I want to do that? Then I'd never get to AA.. well maybe I would one day in like 2034 after 12000 more flows/military pilots are hired and The pool is completely dried up. Then I could sit at the bottom of the stagnant seniority list for a couple years until retirement. :p

Ryan, I’m sorry you were trapped in the lost decade and your Envoy resume wasn’t good enough to get you in the door at a legacy. Flowing through is a nice consolation prize.

I wouldn’t knock a career at Allegiant or any LCC for that matter. The lifestyle and pay far exceed the pay, QOL and abuse you suffer at Envoy. I was completely prepared to spend a career here. I got hired at a time when upgrades were under a year so I upgraded and got 500 PIC.

I have continued to aggressively pursue United, Delta and Southwest in the meantime and finally landed a Delta interview 2 weeks ago and have been hired. I am in my 2 week notice period here now.

Perhaps consider leaving the arrogant attitude at home and maybe someone besides Allegiant would have contacted you.

Allegheny
05-11-2018, 05:14 AM
Speaking of scheduling issues; AA has just recently gone to PBS. Legacy AA and US East were the last hold outs on line bidding. Every other major had PBS. AWA had PBS.



The AA flight attendants are still not under a single bidding system. AA has made some major screw ups with scheduling. There is a learning curve and the reserve language in the contract is ambiguous at best.



Napoleon once said; "Never (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/never/) ascribe (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/ascribe/) to malice (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/malice/) that which is
adequately (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/adequately/) explained (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/explained/) by incompetence (http://www.quotes-positive.com/quotes/incompetence/)." That defines AA scheduling. How else do you give all the block holders all their ability to drop all their Christmas trips??


The culture is made worse, in my opinion, by the way upper management compensates line management. They are heavily weighted on a bonus system. Parker is a spread sheet guy and he believes in measurable metrics. On time push, miss-handled baggage, crew sick calls, fuel use, etc. There has to be a measurable metric so he can rate you with your peers.



This is why agents will close the doors early and leave non-revs behind. Thy are afraid of being late and then they are in trouble with their manager because his bonus is tied to his on-time performance. Chief pilots are the front line defense on sick calls from pilots but not all chief pilots are skilled in interpersonal communication.



My last F/O said that when he returned from furlough, the first thing the DCA chief pilot told him he lived to far away from base. There was no fixed report time in the contract but that doesn't stop the chief pilots from giving you their opinion. No-contacts, late or no commutes, late check-ins, sick calls immediately prior to sign in are all measurable issues and so the chief pilots are aggressive on these issues.


One problem with this concept of accountability is that it promotes blame shifting wherever possible. If you can blame another department, then it doesn't count. I have had agents beg me to call maintenance over a very small issue so that they don't have to take the delay; even when it wasn't really a maintenance issue. (There are no points deducted for a maintenance delay.)



In order for the culture of AA to change they will have to change how they compensate line management on the bonus issue. The bonuses are big, a chief pilot may earn an extra $60K for perceived good performance. However there is no incentive to do a team approach to anything across departments under the current system.

go skers
05-11-2018, 11:14 AM
Ryan, I’m sorry you were trapped in the lost decade and your Envoy resume wasn’t good enough to get you in the door at a legacy. Flowing through is a nice consolation prize.

I wouldn’t knock a career at Allegiant or any LCC for that matter. The lifestyle and pay far exceed the pay, QOL and abuse you suffer at Envoy. I was completely prepared to spend a career here. I got hired at a time when upgrades were under a year so I upgraded and got 500 PIC.

I have continued to aggressively pursue United, Delta and Southwest in the meantime and finally landed a Delta interview 2 weeks ago and have been hired. I am in my 2 week notice period here now.

Perhaps consider leaving the arrogant attitude at home and maybe someone besides Allegiant would have contacted you.

According to your post history, you were hired at Envoy in May 2013 even though there were no May 2013 hires on the list at Envoy at the time and stayed until mid 2016 (according to you) and went to Allegiant and magically got 500 TPIC even though upgrades haven't hit you supposed hire date. With your imaginary 500 TPIC and imaginary position at Allegiant you now want us to believe that you're now going to your imaginary position at Delta?

If you're going to do a long term imaginary timeline as an imaginary pilot at least make it realistic.

NoValueAviator
05-11-2018, 11:31 AM
You audited 500 posts going back half a decade, with add'l research on various co. upgrade times, hiring etc?

Airport stby? Not criticizing or praising it, just in awe sort of. I assume if the dates did match up you'd probably know the guy's name. Something to think about when you post anything that could be even remotely personally identifying around here.

450knotOffice
05-11-2018, 12:27 PM
Perhaps consider leaving the arrogant attitude at home and maybe someone besides Allegiant would have contacted you.

What a stupid thing to say on so many levels. Your OWN arrogance and ignorance will be staring right back at you when you look in that mirror.

On a different note, looking back at your post history as far back as I can go - five pages - you literally have posted ONLY about Envoy. No Allegiant, no Delta, no UAL. NO general discussion areas. No Safety. Nothing but Envoy. What is your crazy obsession with Envoy? I mean, considering there are multiple other boards you can post on, and you stick with Envoy, I'd consider you rather obsessed.

I'm also thinking you are a pathological liar with a vendetta.

ag386
05-11-2018, 12:27 PM
Goskers, ryanp and company just have a hard time that someone abandoned Envoy and the flow for a supposed bottom feeder like Allegiant.

They also claimed I was fired. I rebutted that several times as I resigned with 2 weeks notice and was marked rehireable at Envoy. It didn't fit their narrative so they continued to say that I was.

I am going to admit at purposely being a few months off on my hiring at Envoy and Allegiant in order to protect my identity from the yapping Envoy hyenas here. As you can see, I'm important enough for them to research years worth of posts.

In the end though, that's my history and I've been fortunate to have been hired at Delta and am grateful. My purpose here initially was to point out the advantages of a carrier like Allegiant, Spirit, etc. After all, it got me hired at Delta while goskers and ryanp have to rely on the flow.

go skers
05-11-2018, 12:32 PM
Hah, no kidding.

I couldn't get hired elsewhere off the street even as a check airman. *At a Legacy carrier that I actually wanted to work for that is*. Now currently working at AA anyway, whether they wanted to hire me or not, haha, due to flow, and I am based at home. Paid Eagle dues. Flow worked contrary to garbage posted on the internet. Took a while but I have my seniority number now at the worlds largest airline before the biggest pilot retirement wave in history. Not a terrible place to be IMO. Envoy sucks, no denying it. All regionals suck. At least Envoy people have a backup plan B to get to a Legacy carrier. That does work.

PS, when I got hired at Eagle a little over a decade ago there was NO flow agreement for us, so counting that time to flow seems kind of stupid anyway, we just had flow backs from AA working at Eagle from a prior agreement that didn't apply to us and no promise of anything except $23/hr and a kick in the nuts regularly. Until what, something like 2012 when they gave us that deal? A Lot of BS happened in between back then and now, very few people hired for several years, there was a bankruptcy, consolidation, and all kinds of mess. That flow time will drop rapidly again. Just like the big drop from 2004-2007 with nobody hired. We went from 16 yrs on property to 11 yrs to flow overnight when it hit that gap. Another BIG drop in time will happen again when it hits the next hiring gaps. That's how it drops to 6-8 yrs. Again, despite BS internet beliefs. Seniority list says it all. Look at the hire dates/numbers. Do the math. Not that hard. :cool:

I guess I could have gotten hired at a turdbox like Allegiant years ago too since they called me incessantly from an app I put in back in like 2007 but why would I want to do that? Then I'd never get to AA.. well maybe I would one day in like 2034 after 12000 more flows/military pilots are hired and The pool is completely dried up. Then I could sit at the bottom of the stagnant seniority list for a couple years until retirement. :p

I remember being really excited when the original flow award dropped. Even though it only included around 1200 pilots at the time it guaranteed movement off the top. At other large regionals like Republic and SKYW or even Endeavor if you don't get hired you start to stagnate on the CA list with other guys in similar situations. Constant movement at the top of the list benefits everyone and opens up more jobs in either the training center or the LCA ranks as guys naturally leave for flow or other opportunities.

Even at bare minimum flow rates for guys hired after 2014 flushing out the protected pilots even a few months faster will be good for everyone on the list and I believe we'll see guys hired from 2015-2017 consistently hit flow times in less than 6 years. If flow times start to trend the wrong direction I bet some negotiating capital could be used to make adjustments just like the 824 and protected pilot agreements were improved over time through grievance settlements and contract negotiations.

As things are currently set up the flow through works well for pilots who want to wait for flow and for pilots who want to get career advancement elsewhere while still making consistent seniority gains while they wait at Envoy

ag386
05-11-2018, 01:01 PM
What a stupid thing to say on so many levels. Your OWN arrogance and ignorance will be staring right back at you when you look in that mirror.

On a different note, looking back at your post history as far back as I can go - five pages - you literally have posted ONLY about Envoy. No Allegiant, no Delta, no UAL. NO general discussion areas. No Safety. Nothing but Envoy. What is your crazy obsession with Envoy? I mean, considering there are multiple other boards you can post on, and you stick with Envoy, I'd consider you rather obsessed.

I'm also thinking you are a pathological liar with a vendetta.

Take note. The cultural rot message of this thread was originally posted by an AA pilot. I brought it here so that potential Envoy recruits would be aware of the company vibe.

Also take note. As soon as I post something true like this, the salesmen and recruiters come out of the woodwork.

Are you as a flow through at AA now also concerned with Envoy threads? I can ask you the same question. What are you doing here?

450knotOffice
05-11-2018, 04:06 PM
I saw that entire letter well before you posted it. It was written by a union base rep. Drama and strongly worded alarmist blasts sent out to the memebership is normal business at pretty much any airline. You should know that.

But you focused on that letter because it fits your continuing narrative.

As for your second point, few people would say one cannot post in any sub-forum they choose. Why not? The thing is, though, that most people will mix it up a bit. I post in many sub forums - AA, Envoy, Alaska, SkyWest, the General sections below the main sub forums, etc. the thing is, though, you ONLY post about Envoy. As far as I can tell, you post about nothing else. That seems obsessive to me and to many here.

blizzue
05-11-2018, 08:28 PM
Goskers, ryanp and company just have a hard time that someone abandoned Envoy and the flow for a supposed bottom feeder like Allegiant.

They also claimed I was fired. I rebutted that several times as I resigned with 2 weeks notice and was marked rehireable at Envoy. It didn't fit their narrative so they continued to say that I was.

I am going to admit at purposely being a few months off on my hiring at Envoy and Allegiant in order to protect my identity from the yapping Envoy hyenas here. As you can see, I'm important enough for them to research years worth of posts.

In the end though, that's my history and I've been fortunate to have been hired at Delta and am grateful. My purpose here initially was to point out the advantages of a carrier like Allegiant, Spirit, etc. After all, it got me hired at Delta while goskers and ryanp have to rely on the flow.

I know your exact hire dates at both. I doubt a new type will show up on your airmen registry page.

cr700
05-13-2018, 09:37 AM
Someone on the American thread posted the info below. It started out stating some information about the company culture and then went into the problems the AA pilots are having with their union. I only copied the information regarding the company.

In my time at Envoy, I saw the "company culture" as described below X 2. Eagle/Envoy has always been a punitive company and never one who tries incentives. In other words, they are a "stick only" company. Never any carrot. It's increasingly obvious that the culture has only degraded there beyond where it was with the previous AMR regime.

AA's status has been cheapened with US Airways taking over. From the cheap looking signage and new aircraft livery, nasty customer service and overall poisonous atmosphere, it's worth noting here that AA pilots have many of the same issues as Envoy pilots do.

Flow is good if that's the only way you can move on to better things but it's advisable to keep trying hard to get out of this "too big to fail" corporation.


By now all of us at American Airlines can easily identify a cultural problem in our work place. It began many years ago with a CEO that identified us as merely “cost units” and then acted to bring down the cost of those “units”, no matter if it resulted in a toxic workplace environment and an unmotivated workforce.

After the bankruptcy this cultural rot morphed into a company that makes agreements at the bargaining table it never intends to keep, and strips benefits from its most disadvantaged employees, some of whom have become disabled during dedicated service to the company and are now out of work, out of money and out of options.

Any company that actively works to abrogate both the letter and the spirit of its employees’ contracts by intentionally delaying complete contractual implementation for years despite billions in profits by claiming there is a lack of software developers or that there was yet another misunderstanding at the bargaining table has a cultural problem endemic in its DNA.

A company that constantly seeks to FORCE its employees to go to work on days off, holidays and weekends instead of rewarding employees that WANT to work on those days, albeit for a premium over their base pay, not only has a core cultural problem but is operating with an antiquated industrial-revolution era human resource strategy, It is either too stupid to realize there is a better more efficient way of scheduling its employees by encouraging them to work these undesirable shifts or too stubborn and obtuse to try a different way of doing business.

In our case this practice results in an abundance of reserves doing practically nothing midweek but never idle on the weekends and holidays. Despite this anachronistic scheduling practice, the company still finds itself short-manned on the holidays and weekends and must resort to exotic and extra-contractual means to force its line-holding employees to man the schedule against their will and despite their wishes. Has the company ever allowed an employee to bypass recovery obligation as defined in the contract and specifically delineated as “shall not be unreasonably withheld”? While all of this is probably legal, that doesn’t make it right.


Face it. You got fired and blew your chance at an AA career. How you ended up at a turd carrier like Allegiant is beyond me but it fits you. I don't believe for a minute you are at Delta. Weren't you crying in the CPs office the day you got fired? That should tell anybody here what they need to know about you and your lies about this company. Enjoy that Allegiant sandwich. You deserve it.

Name User
05-13-2018, 03:37 PM
I worked for a US Airways Express carrier and often commuted on Eagle. I was hired at US with the merger am now at AA.

Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.

Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.

As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.

By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.

I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.

mainlineAF
05-13-2018, 05:33 PM
I worked for a US Airways Express carrier and often commuted on Eagle. I was hired at US with the merger am now at AA.

Eagle has always been a class act operation as far as pilots go. I really don't know enough about the culture except from those I've worked with at AA who have told me about it.

Every last one has said AA is much better. You really can't compare the two, two completely different companies.

As far as my time here things have only gotten better. The people complaining about any sort of issues most likely bring it on themselves. They are the guys complaining about having to count their money because it takes them too long to do so now.

By far the biggest complaint on our ***** board is bonuses. Yet the union voluntarily gave them up. They didn't want them.

I'm in my fifth year and will make $180k plus over $25k in company 401k contributions. I'll take my regular vacation and regularly get 8-9 days off in a row in my lines. Sure it would be nice to have a large bonus but honestly we make a lot of money for what we do, especially considering a few years ago I wouldn't have cracked six figures unless I worked down to eight days off a month. The hotels we stay in are soooo much better than the crap I stayed in for years at Express. Training is a breeze and extremely low stress. Recurrent is very laid back. I can't stress enough don't listen to the idiots who complain, they will complain about anything, they will never be happy.



100% agree. We make damn good money (I’d happily take more though) and we are treated well.

This job is amazing and I’m very thankful to have it. I hope it stays this way for a long time.

NoValueAviator
05-14-2018, 09:20 AM
No mystery to me, the only reason people are willing to fly for the regionals at all in many cases is because of the promise of an underworked, overpaid job at XYZ major airline.

E175 Driver
05-14-2018, 10:21 AM
No mystery to me, the only reason people are willing to fly for the regionals at all in many cases is because of the promise of an underworked, overpaid job at XYZ major airline.

Or skeletons in the closet.

Aviatrx
05-14-2018, 11:16 AM
No mystery to me, the only reason people are willing to fly for the regionals at all in many cases is because of the promise of an underworked, overpaid job at XYZ major airline.

I think that majors deserve everything they are paid and more. Yes, this job seems easy once you learn how to do it. A good pilot is essential to the success of the airline, and there are a whole lot of high paying customers on board. Most of said pilots work very hard and fly trans cons through the night. That being said, there are the home based reserves who can get away with working very little, and the wide body FO’s who what movies and sleep for half the flight, but I wouldn’t say they are the majority. Please be careful not to cheapen the job we work hard to get

NoValueAviator
05-14-2018, 12:53 PM
I think that majors deserve everything they are paid and more. Yes, this job seems easy once you learn how to do it. A good pilot is essential to the success of the airline, and there are a whole lot of high paying customers on board. Most of said pilots work very hard and fly trans cons through the night. That being said, there are the home based reserves who can get away with working very little, and the wide body FO’s who what movies and sleep for half the flight, but I wouldn’t say they are the majority. Please be careful not to cheapen the job we work hard to get

You're right, both regional and major airline pilots are paid appropriately and commensurately relative to the amount of work they do. Low regional pay is in no way subsidized by "pay in experience" towards a position at a major airline.

lol

Whiskey4
05-14-2018, 04:29 PM
You're right, both regional and major airline pilots are paid appropriately and commensurately relative to the amount of work they do. Low regional pay is in no way subsidized by "pay in experience" towards a position at a major airline.

lol

Airline CEOs ripped a page right out of MLB. I went to a double-A minor league game the other day, and out of curiosity looked up their average pay. My hat is off to those guys...their pay might even be worse than when I was a new hire FO (pre-bonuses, auto-3rd year pay etc). But, they’re all hoping for that call up to the big show. Apparently, less than 10% will ever get that call.

Smutter
05-15-2018, 05:44 AM
Airline CEOs ripped a page right out of MLB. I went to a double-A minor league game the other day, and out of curiosity looked up their average pay. My hat is off to those guys...their pay might even be worse than when I was a new hire FO (pre-bonuses, auto-3rd year pay etc). But, they’re all hoping for that call up to the big show. Apparently, less than 10% will ever get that call.

To be fair though, the guys drafted in the first 5 rounds make good money, obviously round 1 and 2 make a lot of money, also a some of the high school kids(in the minors) do to. After 5th round drafts, those kids have very low chances of making it, and are on the team to fill a spot, and on the players part, to chase their dream. At the regionals we are just all paid bad.

But yes minor league pay, blows