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View Full Version : Current Envoy Facts


Fopuddle
05-09-2018, 12:32 PM
FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 109
About 50 Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout 2018
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This is authorized by a ďstanding vacancyĒ LOA. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and the LOA could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, envoy will send a minimum of 29 pilots per month, to AA or 50% of available slots ; whichever is greater.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will send a minimum of 15 pilots per month, to AA or 35% of available slots ; whichever is greater.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.


EmbaeDriver
05-09-2018, 01:22 PM
Thankssssss

aero77
05-09-2018, 01:27 PM
Thank you for taking the time to type this when not required to do so. Can you explain the possible exception for reserve time on the CRJ?


Fopuddle
05-09-2018, 01:37 PM
Thank you for taking the time to type this when not required to do so. Can you explain the possible exception for reserve time on the CRJ?

The crj is a little tricky to figure out. Over the past few years, the projection of the size of the fleet has changed frequently. Therefore the number of pilots to staff the plane changed just as often.
Depending on how quickly the planes are transferred to PSA, the pilots on it might see very little movement.
It is possible that, on the FO side, if a pilot is at the bottom of the list, and there are very few new hires added on the list, then the current fo list would shrink as the fleet shrink. This would possibly leave the bottom guys on reserve for quite a while.
The only way to avoid reserve is :
A) senior guys bidding reserve or
B) junior guys assigned to the status.

BigZ
05-09-2018, 01:40 PM
Thank you for taking the time to type this when not required to do so. Can you explain the possible exception for reserve time on the CRJ?

It is currently 8 months due to the shrinking fleet and sporadic trickle hiring into the CRJ

SilentLurker
05-09-2018, 02:23 PM
Few loaded questions come to mind.

1. When does it start?

2. Where do FOs who have 950hrs+ find Standing Vacancies (SV) results? Will Training dates be on Flow Plan?

3. How often are SV award results: continuous, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly?

***4. Are SV awarded new CAs seat locked? ***
Since itís a Preference Bid (3P) to activating a SV right? Anyway to avoid a seat lock?

Kapache007
05-09-2018, 02:27 PM
What is the monthly hours flown like for E145 LGA based pilot?

- Also if I am looking to be based in NYC fly 1000hrs a year and get my Turbine PIC asap with flow as a plan B would Envoy be a good choice?

- I am new to the game ATP student, but what you guys think of the Envoy cadet program. Sounds like a good deal of more than likely I will end up at envoy anyways.🤔

bigtime209
05-09-2018, 02:48 PM
What is the monthly hours flown like for E145 LGA based pilot?

- Also if I am looking to be based in NYC fly 1000hrs a year and get my Turbine PIC asap with flow as a plan B would Envoy be a good choice?

- I am new to the game ATP student, but what you guys think of the Envoy cadet program. Sounds like a good deal of more than likely I will end up at envoy anyways.🤔

If you want to be based in NY, your best options are Envoy and EDV. If you want the flow in your back pocket and don't mind NY, go with Envoy. If you don't care about flow, then go to EDV for the pay and QOL. If you're sure you want to go to Envoy, then the Cadet program is good because it gives you first pick of base/equipment as a new hire. But if you want to be based in NY, first pick of base/equipment isn't that valuable since NY is the last choice anyway.

Pedro4President
05-09-2018, 02:51 PM
What is the monthly hours flown like for E145 LGA based pilot?

- Also if I am looking to be based in NYC fly 1000hrs a year and get my Turbine PIC asap with flow as a plan B would Envoy be a good choice?

- I am new to the game ATP student, but what you guys think of the Envoy cadet program. Sounds like a good deal of more than likely I will end up at envoy anyways.🤔

Lga/jfk has the best lines in the system.

Good plan.

Cadet program is nice if you are going to go to Envoy.

Fopuddle
05-09-2018, 02:53 PM
Few loaded questions come to mind.

1. When does it start?

2. Where do FOs who have 950hrs+ find Standing Vacancies (SV) results? Will Training dates be on Flow Plan?

3. How often are SV award results: continuous, weekly, bi-weekly, monthly?

***4. Are SV awarded new CAs seat locked? ***
Since itís a Preference Bid (3P) to activating a SV right? Anyway to avoid a seat lock?

A lot of good questions. As of right now, we dont have much more info then what was given to us by email, from the union.

Here is what the union said :

"The gist of this LOA is that once a vacancy bid is awarded and final, an FO who reaches 950 hours and desires to invoke his rights under the standing vacancy bid can volunteer for any vacant and unfilled captain slots left over from the vacancy. The standing vacancy will remain open until the next vacancy is posted.

Standing vacancies will be processed according to:
First-come, first served
In order of seniority if submitted at the same time
Bid award will be based on date the company receives bid
Pilot will be notified
Captain awards via the standing bid will be slotted into training behind pilots awarded captain on the regular vacancy (with the same current and next status)"

It does say that a pilot would volunteer, therefore i would venture to guess that a pilot would be seat locked.
As soon as we have more info, i will do my best to provide some answers.

Fopuddle
05-09-2018, 07:24 PM
[/I]

UPDATED POST : fleet count wording, junior captain date of hire and standing vacancy LOA wording

FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancyĒ LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, envoy will send a minimum of 29 pilots per month, to AA or 50% of available slots ; whichever is greater.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will send a minimum of 15 pilots per month, to AA or 35% of available slots ; whichever is greater.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
.........fleet count wording.........
.. .junior captain date of hire....
standing vacancy LOA wording

babs
05-10-2018, 04:04 AM
A little more info on the E145 fleet (May be off by a couple but should be close):
I count that we currently have 61 E145s and 38 E140s (active). Adding the 15 Trans States E145s that will be returning and 11 more E140s that will be online from storage soon, brings the total to 125 E140/E145s. I have no idea how many more E145s PDT will be taking delivery of so I wonít even venture to guess.

Flyder
05-10-2018, 05:50 AM
*Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.*

Is this also for new hire FO's straight out of training who got LGA 145 or just DEC?

babs
05-10-2018, 05:52 AM
*Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.*

Is this also for new hire FO's straight out of training who got LGA 145?

Yes.......

NoValueAviator
05-10-2018, 06:23 AM
Honestly the LGA consolation prize is pretty cool, it's a shame they didn't extend it to the guys who got the flush before the LOA somehow though.

RabidW0mbat
05-10-2018, 07:45 AM
What's the cost for medical insurance for a family of 5?

Fopuddle
05-10-2018, 08:03 AM
What's the cost for medical insurance for a family of 5?

I m sorry, i dont have an answer for that question. I dont use the company heathcare plan. Hopefully someone can chime in.

llws
05-10-2018, 08:27 AM
Honestly the LGA consolation prize is pretty cool, it's a shame they didn't extend it to the guys who got the flush before the LOA somehow though.

Get used to new hires benefitting while those already here realize none of the gains. Pretty soon those guys with the positive space to/from NY and the unlimited hotels will inevitably complain about it and then you'll find yourself reminding them that "the guys who got the flush before the LOA" never had that little benefit.

But then watch the same thing happen over and over and over for years, and it will start to become a bit tedious when they try to remind you that "times are different" and just because they had better timing than you, that doesn't give you the right to remind them of how good they have it compared to you. Then maybe they'll casually suggest they start their own union once they "have the numbers".

If there's one thing I think everyone is missing it's this. PPs don't want the newer guys to go through the same struggles as they went through. And even though it gets a bit annoying when people complain about having to be on reserve for a few months, everyone's situation is relative. It would be strange if they didn't complain. It's just human nature. The biggest issue is when the newer guys complain about the PPs finally actually benefiting from something, when they have no knowledge of, or seemingly no interest in, understanding the history of this place since the bankruptcy and merge.

When the MEC (elected by the PPs) voted in the pay structure that would make us competitive in terms of attracting new hires, it created an environment where movement here would skyrocket. And it did. Everything improved dramatically from time on reserve, time to hold desired base and/or equipment, upgrade time, and even flow time. The reality is that it took the PPs 6 or 7 years to realize any of these improvements (most of which were reserved for new hires), yet said new hires benefited day 1 of being on property.

No one should be upset that timing has worked out great so far for those just recently hired. That's just the way this industry is. But the new guys should at the very least understand their audience. When guys had to deal with being furloughed, when time to flow was over 15 years, and upgrade time was around 11 years, the last thing the PPs would do is complain to their CAs about FO reserve. Or that after 3 years they should be upgrading, etc.



TLDR: just as the PPs would complain about the gummers/lifers years ago, the newer guys will complain about the PPs. And the newer guys will eventually complain about the even newer guys. And vice versa all around. Just remember, those who have been here the longest have the most experience (not just flying here, but with management, contracts, union stuff, etc). I won't speak for all PPs, but I think most would just like it if more new guys would seem to realize that and tailor their interactions accordingly.

yeahbutstill
05-10-2018, 08:41 AM
I m sorry, i dont have an answer for that question. I dont use the company heathcare plan. Hopefully someone can chime in.

Between 5-6 hundred a month for the most expensive plan

Smutter
05-10-2018, 08:53 AM
What's the cost for medical insurance for a family of 5?

600.68 for a family of 3

griff312
05-10-2018, 09:01 AM
Get used to new hires benefitting while those already here realize none of the gains. Pretty soon those guys with the positive space to/from NY and the unlimited hotels will inevitably complain about it and then you'll find yourself reminding them that "the guys who got the flush before the LOA" never had that little benefit.

But then watch the same thing happen over and over and over for years, and it will start to become a bit tedious when they try to remind you that "times are different" and just because they had better timing than you, that doesn't give you the right to remind them of how good they have it compared to you. Then maybe they'll casually suggest they start their own union once they "have the numbers".

If there's one thing I think everyone is missing it's this. PPs don't want the newer guys to go through the same struggles as they went through. And even though it gets a bit annoying when people complain about having to be on reserve for a few months, everyone's situation is relative. It would be strange if they didn't complain. It's just human nature. The biggest issue is when the newer guys complain about the PPs finally actually benefiting from something, when they have no knowledge of, or seemingly no interest in, understanding the history of this place since the bankruptcy and merge.

When the MEC (elected by the PPs) voted in the pay structure that would make us competitive in terms of attracting new hires, it created an environment where movement here would skyrocket. And it did. Everything improved dramatically from time on reserve, time to hold desired base and/or equipment, upgrade time, and even flow time. The reality is that it took the PPs 6 or 7 years to realize any of these improvements (most of which were reserved for new hires), yet said new hires benefited day 1 of being on property.

No one should be upset that timing has worked out great so far for those just recently hired. That's just the way this industry is. But the new guys should at the very least understand their audience. When guys had to deal with being furloughed, when time to flow was over 15 years, and upgrade time was around 11 years, the last thing the PPs would do is complain to their CAs about FO reserve. Or that after 3 years they should be upgrading, etc.



TLDR: just as the PPs would complain about the gummers/lifers years ago, the newer guys will complain about the PPs. And the newer guys will eventually complain about the even newer guys. And vice versa all around. Just remember, those who have been here the longest have the most experience (not just flying here, but with management, contracts, union stuff, etc). I won't speak for all PPs, but I think most would just like it if more new guys would seem to realize that and tailor their interactions accordingly.

100%, Yes! Thank you, very well stated!

ChickHicks
05-10-2018, 10:22 AM
100%, Yes! Thank you, very well stated!

llws nailed it!!

daveetasac
05-10-2018, 02:26 PM
I owe you a beer, llws. Spot on.

KodiakRS
05-10-2018, 05:50 PM
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, envoy will send a minimum of 29 pilots per month, to AA or 50% of available slots ; whichever is greater.


This is incorrect. The intention was for %50 of all AA newhires to come from envoy but the company could meter down to 25 per month as deemed necessary. The company never intended to send more than 25 per month so it was grieved and ultimately resulted in this recent settlement.

The effective outcome is that envoy pilots will make up %50 of AA newhires up to 29 a month.

If AA hires 20, we send 10
If AA hires 100, we send 29

The only time we're likely to see more is when they send the 18 pilots from the makeup group. 9 by April 2020 and 9 more by the end of the PP flow.

What your post should say is: %50 of AA newhires or 29 per month, whichever is less. Unless they company decides to send more. (which, let's be honest, they won't)

Fopuddle
05-10-2018, 08:35 PM
UPDATED POST :
Flowthrough wording

FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancyĒ LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......

Fopuddle
05-10-2018, 08:41 PM
UPDATED POST :
Flowthrough wording

FLEET : slight growth in 2018 and 2019 (*)
CRJ 700 : 22
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, by the end of 2019
EMB 140/145 : 100+
Previously placed in storage aircrafts to be added throughout the first half of 2018. No official number
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019.
About 60 options left. No official decision yet.
*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 6%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancyĒ LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 6/2016
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 4/2015
EMB 175 ORD: 4/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
......flowthrough wording.......

CatchyUsername
05-13-2018, 10:18 AM
I understand this stuff changes a lot, but any odds of getting the training timelines as they stand? Haven't seen anything posted recently about it. Current lag between finishing Coast, Indoc, etc. Potential RTP new hires that are weighing regional options are looking at stuff like this to plan on how long they can expect to go without a paycheck.

AFSOCFlyr
05-17-2018, 10:30 AM
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but any rough ideas re: time to hold MIA as an FO, and is it trending more junior, senior, or stable? Latest number I could find was 7 months but that was someone's experience last year. Thanks!

go skers
05-17-2018, 11:10 AM
Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but any rough ideas re: time to hold MIA as an FO, and is it trending more junior, senior, or stable? Latest number I could find was 7 months but that was someone's experience last year. Thanks!

Current junior pilot awarded MIA was hired Feb 2018 and will transfer June 1st. Training on the EMB from Indoc to finishing IOE is running three months. It's likely they'll only have to do one month in LGA before transferring.

For people interested in DFW EMJ the junior pilot is a Dec 2017 hire with a June 1st transfer date. DFW E75 is even less but it's really hard to get unless you're a cadet or fairly senior in your class.

SoFloFlyer
05-17-2018, 09:30 PM
If you get 175 at Indoc, what the best way to go about commuting from MIA to your base? I know AA has a tons of flights, but it also seems that getting on AA as a non rev is pretty difficult at MIA. Anyone has insight on this? Thanks!

Whiskey4
05-18-2018, 02:40 AM
If you get 175 at Indoc, what the best way to go about commuting from MIA to your base? I know AA has a tons of flights, but it also seems that getting on AA as a non rev is pretty difficult at MIA. Anyone has insight on this? Thanks!

Why not pick a 145 and drive to work?

MD-11Loader
05-18-2018, 04:23 AM
Why not pick a 145 and drive to work?

Because the 175 has auto throttle. Set it and forget it.

SkylineAviation
05-18-2018, 04:37 AM
If you get 175 at Indoc, what the best way to go about commuting from MIA to your base? I know AA has a tons of flights, but it also seems that getting on AA as a non rev is pretty difficult at MIA. Anyone has insight on this? Thanks!

If you donít want the 175 donít bid it. The 175 goes far more senior. Getting the 145 is easy in whichever base then eventually transfer. If you live in Miami youíd be insane to bid the 175 and commute to DFW or ORD. Iíve done both (not by choice) and it can be very hard, not to mention the time wasted.

SilentLurker
05-18-2018, 04:40 AM
Why not pick a 145 and drive to work?



If i was him/her, single, no kids, flexible, I would take E145. But I would want a E175/190/195 type ďonlyĒ to be more marketable to Jetblue thanks to the new AIP they just signed. Any little advantage helps. Commute on most AA metal sucks! Especially if he has to get LGA anyways.

A lot of mainline pilots /flow through commute to NYC/LGA since itís the most junior base. So he/she would need to commute anyways on full flights. A move in base at ENY, or at mainline is nice. Many refuse to, and elect to commute.

Iíd go bat**** crazy to get with Jetblue or a LLC (Spirit, SW) and say bye to flow if they have a base in my home town & call. Wide-body career is nice (for a few, but itís not for everyone).

P.s...... Pay comparison, take a look at AA Group 2 rates, it will be lower than JetBlueís new AIP rates (A320/A321). Something to think about.

DilsonWic
05-18-2018, 05:47 AM
If you get 175 at Indoc, what the best way to go about commuting from MIA to your base? I know AA has a tons of flights, but it also seems that getting on AA as a non rev is pretty difficult at MIA. Anyone has insight on this? Thanks!

Yes. Donít pick the 175.

bigtime209
05-18-2018, 06:37 AM
If i was him/her, single, no kids, flexible, I would take E145. But I would want a E175/190/195 type ďonlyĒ to be more marketable to Jetblue thanks to the new AIP they just signed. Any little advantage helps. Commute on most AA metal sucks! Especially if he has to get LGA anyways.

A lot of mainline pilots /flow through commute to NYC/LGA since itís the most junior base. So he/she would need to commute anyways on full flights. A move in base at ENY, or at mainline is nice. Many refuse to, and elect to commute.

Iíd go bat**** crazy to get with Jetblue or a LLC (Spirit, SW) and say bye to flow if they have a base in my home town & call. Wide-body career is nice (for a few, but itís not for everyone).

P.s...... Pay comparison, take a look at AA Group 2 rates, it will be lower than JetBlueís new AIP rates (A320/A321). Something to think about.

Completely false. AA Group 2 is still higher than the AIP for 2018 and 2019, with 2019 being the end of the current AA contract.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $86, $117, $173. AA Group 2 FO: $88, $133, $184.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $88, $119, $177. AA Group 2 FO: $90, $137, $190.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $225, $228, $259. AA Group 2 CA: $248, $250, $270.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $230, $232, $264. AA Group 2 CA: $255, $257, $278.

Now, Iím not saying that JB isnít paying excellent money and that they wouldnít be a great place to work for. Itís big money and my friends that work there enjoy it. But I donít know where guys get this completely false information that not only JB is now gonna pay their Bus drivers more than AA. Just like the nonsense some guys were claiming that Spiritís new TA pays their Bus drivers more than AA. Simply not true.

Aviatrx
05-18-2018, 07:14 AM
Daaayuumm! Why you gotta go bring facts to the facts thread?!

Cyio
05-18-2018, 08:42 AM
Completely false. AA Group 2 is still higher than the AIP for 2018 and 2019, with 2019 being the end of the current AA contract.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $86, $117, $173. AA Group 2 FO: $88, $133, $184.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $88, $119, $177. AA Group 2 FO: $90, $137, $190.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $225, $228, $259. AA Group 2 CA: $248, $250, $270.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $230, $232, $264. AA Group 2 CA: $255, $257, $278.

Now, Iím not saying that JB isnít paying excellent money and that they wouldnít be a great place to work for. Itís big money and my friends that work there enjoy it. But I donít know where guys get this completely false information that not only JB is now gonna pay their Bus drivers more than AA. Just like the nonsense some guys were claiming that Spiritís new TA pays their Bus drivers more than AA. Simply not true.
This, and to add to it, once the contract is up for renegotiation at the end of 2019 you can bet your life that the AA pilot union will be brining the recent contracts that Spirit/JB and the others have passed to the table. With them in hand, they certainly won't accept anything lower and will be pushing for industry leading pay.

Whiskey4
05-18-2018, 10:34 AM
P.s...... Pay comparison, take a look at AA Group 2 rates, it will be lower than JetBlueís new AIP rates (A320/A321). Something to think about.

APA will just pattern bargain to get back above the LCCs...unless the bottom falls out.

GCPhoenix
05-18-2018, 11:35 AM
401k 50% up to 7%, not 6.

Fopuddle
05-18-2018, 12:57 PM
401k 50% up to 7%, not 6.

Thanks for that info. Can you point me to where i can find that info ?

SoFloFlyer
05-18-2018, 01:40 PM
Iíd figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. Thatís probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha Iíll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, thatíd be a game changer for me.

highfarfast
05-18-2018, 02:04 PM
Iíd figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. Thatís probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha Iíll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, thatíd be a game changer for me.

You're giving up $5,000 in bonus money with that route. Both airplanes pay the same otherwise.

MD-11Loader
05-18-2018, 02:04 PM
Iíd figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. Thatís probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha Iíll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, thatíd be a game changer for me.

The 175 is in MIA at Republic. Just saying..

bigtime209
05-18-2018, 02:07 PM
I’d figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. That’s probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha I’ll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, that’d be a game changer for me.

Wouldn't you rather have an extra $5k in your pocket and 1,000 hours of experience under your belt in the 145 since that's what you'd be upgrading into? Trust me, it's a lot easier upgrading into the equipment you know. It all pays the same brotha. Don't fall victim to SJS, use your brain and some logic.

bigtime209
05-18-2018, 02:08 PM
Thanks for that info. Can you point me to where i can find that info ?

Section 28.B

bourbon scamp
05-18-2018, 02:22 PM
Yes. Donít pick the 175.



A lot of the MIA commuters I talk to connect via TLH or the like to get to DFW and back. Thereís always MTY too on Republic, the MIA flights are usually empty. Not sure about ORD but Iím sure thereís similar means.

Cyio
05-18-2018, 03:35 PM
Commuting is cancer and while the 175 is a great plane, most who have flown the 145 loved it as well. If MIA is your long term goal, donít be silly and just take the 145. It will make upgrade training so much easier.

Best advice I was given just prior to coming into this business was ďpick the base and NEVER chase a specific planeĒ. After a couple hundred hours a plane is a plane is a plane.

BigZ
05-18-2018, 08:56 PM
Completely false. AA Group 2 is still higher than the AIP for 2018 and 2019, with 2019 being the end of the current AA contract.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $86, $117, $173. AA Group 2 FO: $88, $133, $184.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 FO Bus pay respectively: $88, $119, $177. AA Group 2 FO: $90, $137, $190.

2018 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $225, $228, $259. AA Group 2 CA: $248, $250, $270.

2019 Year 1, 2 and 12 CA Bus pay respectively: $230, $232, $264. AA Group 2 CA: $255, $257, $278.

Now, Iím not saying that JB isnít paying excellent money and that they wouldnít be a great place to work for. Itís big money and my friends that work there enjoy it. But I donít know where guys get this completely false information that not only JB is now gonna pay their Bus drivers more than AA. Just like the nonsense some guys were claiming that Spiritís new TA pays their Bus drivers more than AA. Simply not true.
That's all great and stuff, but

- How long till you flow to AA? How long to Spirit/JetBlue?
- How long to upgrade to NB CA at AA/Spirit/JetBlue?
- How long to hold the base you want at all of the above?
- How likely are you to keep the job if economy tanks? What if the oil price doubles?
- How are the QoL items? STD/LTD? 401k contributions? How many years you have left till 65?
It doesn't automatically boil to $/hr and there is no one size fits all answer

SoFloFlyer
05-19-2018, 12:12 AM
Wouldn't you rather have an extra $5k in your pocket and 1,000 hours of experience under your belt in the 145 since that's what you'd be upgrading into? Trust me, it's a lot easier upgrading into the equipment you know. It all pays the same brotha. Don't fall victim to SJS, use your brain and some logic.

Thanks you and everyone for the advice and some input. Honestly. This is why the forum exists.. that AND to **** talk, of course :D

bigtime209
05-19-2018, 05:53 AM
That's all great and stuff, but

- How long till you flow to AA? How long to Spirit/JetBlue?
- How long to upgrade to NB CA at AA/Spirit/JetBlue?
- How long to hold the base you want at all of the above?
- How likely are you to keep the job if economy tanks? What if the oil price doubles?
- How are the QoL items? STD/LTD? 401k contributions? How many years you have left till 65?
It doesn't automatically boil to $/hr and there is no one size fits all answer

The point of my post was to squash the misconception that the new JB AIP and Spirit TA will have higher hourly rates. Would it be foolish for some people to wait around and flow to AA when they could possibly go to JB? Absolutely. I don't need to rehash all the reasons that someone should jump on a JB opportunity as opposed to waiting to flow, you laid all of that out. I was simply pointing out a fact.

bigtime209
05-19-2018, 05:56 AM
Thanks you and everyone for the advice and some input. Honestly. This is why the forum exists.. that AND to **** talk, of course :D

You bet. If you've never been in the 121 game and never have commuted, you simply don't realized how awful commuting is. It really can make the job miserable and can make life stressful. You're number 1 priority when picking base/equipment is to pick whatever gets you driving to work ASAP. There's no plane in existence that is worth a commute if it pays exactly the same. Good luck!

BigZ
05-19-2018, 07:02 AM
The point of my post was to squash the misconception that the new JB AIP and Spirit TA will have higher hourly rates. Would it be foolish for some people to wait around and flow to AA when they could possibly go to JB? Absolutely. I don't need to rehash all the reasons that someone should jump on a JB opportunity as opposed to waiting to flow, you laid all of that out. I was simply pointing out a fact.
My reply wasn't so much to counter your post, more to supplement it with more factors.
Along the line of "yes, 140 is better than 120, if you can start getting either tomorrow. Five years at 70 to get to 140 vs 120 tomorrow is a net loss of 150 over ten years"

SoFloFlyer
05-20-2018, 12:02 AM
You bet. If you've never been in the 121 game and never have commuted, you simply don't realized how awful commuting is. It really can make the job miserable and can make life stressful. You're number 1 priority when picking base/equipment is to pick whatever gets you driving to work ASAP. There's no plane in existence that is worth a commute if it pays exactly the same. Good luck!

Definitely not in the 121 world yet, but Iíll definitely take your word for it! Youíre not the only one to have said that! Thanks again and Iíll see you up in the flight levels soon!

Otterbox
05-20-2018, 02:37 AM
Iíd figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. Thatís probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha Iíll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, thatíd be a game changer for me.

If you can drive to work and plan on upgrading into the 145, it makes the most sense to be a 145 FO... youíll be setup for success better.

Ijustlikeflying
05-20-2018, 03:23 AM
Iíd figure that the 175 would be fun to fly until I get my 1000 hours and upgrade to the 145. Thatís probably shiny jet syndrome talking haha Iíll end up picking 145 so I can eventually drive to work. I hope the 175 comes to MIA, thatíd be a game changer for me.

Itís a jet. Donít be stupid. Pick your base, based on where you want to live. They all pay the same. Commuting on a 3hour flight to another base 4 to 5 times a month for a cool instagram photo to brag to your friends you got the 175 is not worth it. Oh, and they donít care.

175 will be in Miami eventually. Republic is on their way out. We are taking back more and more of their flying every month that goes by.

RabidW0mbat
05-21-2018, 08:28 AM
For a new FO, 0 121 time, is ORD a reasonable expectation out of training, or will one get to enjoy LGA for a while?

MD-11Loader
05-21-2018, 08:52 AM
I would take the three months in LGA and accumulate some flight time. Unless you live in ORD you may as well take the positive space passes and unlimited commuter hotels. Youíll be deep down on the reserve list in ORD and will barely fly.

NoValueAviator
05-21-2018, 09:08 AM
You can get ORD (in class) or even DFW out of training on the 175. You will be stuck in LGA on the 145, probably for quite a while, unless you want MIA where you might be able to get out sooner.

RabidW0mbat
05-21-2018, 09:25 AM
I would take the three months in LGA and accumulate some flight time. Unless you live in ORD you may as well take the positive space passes and unlimited commuter hotels. Youíll be deep down on the reserve list in ORD and will barely fly.
I live in ORD, so reserve is ok.

MD-11Loader
05-21-2018, 10:51 AM
I live in ORD, so reserve is ok.

Then stay at home my friend. Suckle on the reserve teet for as long as you want.

RabidW0mbat
05-21-2018, 11:16 AM
You can get ORD (in class) or even DFW out of training on the 175. You will be stuck in LGA on the 145, probably for quite a while, unless you want MIA where you might be able to get out sooner.
I thought the 175 was basically impossible to get if you're not a cadet? I have 0 121 time, so essentially I assume I'd be the bottom of the barrel. Is LGA a guarantee if I went 145? Hell at this rate I may just try for the CRJ to ensure Chicago.

Is Envoy still frozen as far as new hires go? I saw they had stopped or slowed classes for the summer.

KAC90
05-21-2018, 02:30 PM
How far backed up are class dates?

I interviewed back in late February and was offered a FO job. At the time of the interview I had around 1100 hours and gave them a tentative date of availability of July 15th. After receiving a call from them a week after the interview stating that I passed the captains review board they told me that I would be receiving additional emails with information on class dates. However, after not hearing anything all through March and April I decided to call them and ask about choosing a class date at which point they told me that classes are filled through August 27th and that I am in a class pool.

So, I guess my question becomes then when will I be taken out of the "class pool" and assigned an official class date? Hoping that I don't hit my 1500hrs in mid July just to be told no classes are available until the end of October.

Whiskey4
05-21-2018, 02:54 PM
I thought the 175 was basically impossible to get if you're not a cadet? I have 0 121 time, so essentially I assume I'd be the bottom of the barrel. Is LGA a guarantee if I went 145? Hell at this rate I may just try for the CRJ to ensure Chicago.

Is Envoy still frozen as far as new hires go? I saw they had stopped or slowed classes for the summer.

Plenty of new hires coming in. It appears that many are coming from tracks/programs... Cadet, RTP, DEC.

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 08:15 AM
I thought the 175 was basically impossible to get if you're not a cadet? I have 0 121 time, so essentially I assume I'd be the bottom of the barrel. Is LGA a guarantee if I went 145? Hell at this rate I may just try for the CRJ to ensure Chicago.

Is Envoy still frozen as far as new hires go? I saw they had stopped or slowed classes for the summer.

It's basically gauranteed if you're a cadet, provided they actually offer it. You are also likely to get it if you are very old. Born in the 70's? CRJ tends to go senior because they aren't offering ORD 145 and people will do anything to avoid NY historically, although the LOA might help?

Don't come here if you aren't comfortable with a 2 year sentence to LGA 145 as an FO though, no one can tell you exactly how long it will take to escape from New York and there have been entire classes where NO 175 slots were offered and everyone got the flush.

Envoy has capped classes but is not restricting pipelines - cadets, etc. and still seems to be running 2 classes a month.

havick206
05-22-2018, 08:36 AM
It's basically gauranteed if you're a cadet, provided they actually offer it. You are also likely to get it if you are very old. Born in the 70's? CRJ tends to go senior because they aren't offering ORD 145 and people will do anything to avoid NY historically, although the LOA might help?

Don't come here if you aren't comfortable with a 2 year sentence to LGA 145 as an FO though, no one can tell you exactly how long it will take to escape from New York and there have been entire classes where NO 175 slots were offered and everyone got the flush.

Envoy has capped classes but is not restricting pipelines - cadets, etc. and still seems to be running 2 classes a month.

How do you figure itís 2 years at LGA as an FO? Thatís not even in the realm of reality. You can bid out of LGA as an FO usually after a bid cycle or two.

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 08:40 AM
How do you figure itís 2 years at LGA as an FO? Thatís not even in the realm of reality. You can bid out of LGA as an FO usually after a bid cycle or two.

That's not my prediction, that's a worst case scenario. How long exactly does it take to get out of NY for a new hire?

havick206
05-22-2018, 08:55 AM
That's not my prediction, that's a worst case scenario. How long exactly does it take to get out of NY for a new hire?

Ok so youíre trying to paint a picture worse than it is by a long way.

A lot of new hires still getting ord in Indoc, those that are LGA out of Indoc are generally getting the award to another base on the next vacancy bid or the one after.

yeahbutstill
05-22-2018, 09:06 AM
How do you figure itís 2 years at LGA as an FO? Thatís not even in the realm of reality. You can bid out of LGA as an FO usually after a bid cycle or two.

In all fairness it took me about 8-9 months to get back to DFW from LGA (new hire class July 2017)and there were classes of 50-60 people back then after mine for a while.. it looks like now the classes are a lot smaller like 25-30 people max so based on that I guess you could figure a little over a year now?

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 09:13 AM
Ok so you’re trying to paint a picture worse than it is by a long way.

A lot of new hires still getting ord in Indoc, those that are LGA out of Indoc are generally getting the award to another base on the next vacancy bid or the one after.

I think you're projecting because you're trying to make it look nicer than it is. That's very misleading, the average new hire is unlikely to get the 175 and therefore won't get ORD.

No one is getting out on the first bid. "Generally" two bids? So just say ~8 months, plus several months to transfer and we're up to around 12 months NFE. Then, what if you're unlucky and they don't do a bid one quarter or something? Or class sizes continue to shrink?

Sure, you might get out of NY before you're done with training. You might get called by American before you finish ground school.

havick206
05-22-2018, 09:22 AM
I think you're projecting because you're trying to make it look nicer than it is. That's very misleading, the average new hire is unlikely to get the 175 and therefore won't get ORD.

No one is getting out on the first bid. "Generally" two bids? So just say ~8 months, plus several months to transfer and we're up to around 12 months NFE. Then, what if you're unlucky and they don't do a bid one quarter or something? Or class sizes continue to shrink?

Sure, you might get out of NY before you're done with training. You might get called by American before you finish ground school.

You do realize we are taking an extra bunch of 175ís and 15 transstates 145ís in addition to what we already had coming?

Iím no company cheerleader but 2 years is so far off the mark.

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 09:25 AM
You do realize we are taking an extra bunch of 175’s and 15 transstates 145’s in addition to what we already had coming?

I’m no company cheerleader but 2 years is so far off the mark.

Take a peek at some reserve lists and you'll realize these machines are already partly staffed by people who already have seniority numbers. Are you saying none of those 145's are going to LGA?

2 years is a worst case scenario but entirely possible if current trends continue.

havick206
05-22-2018, 10:31 AM
Take a peek at some reserve lists and you'll realize these machines are already partly staffed by people who already have seniority numbers. Are you saying none of those 145's are going to LGA?

2 years is a worst case scenario but entirely possible if current trends continue.

Ok then howís this. Iíll pull dates of hires from the latest flowplan later tonight or tomorrow and post the most junior pilot by date or hire at each base other than lga.

griff312
05-22-2018, 04:47 PM
You are also likely to get it if you are very old. Born in the 70's?



Well, it was about that time, I realized that I had stopped liking Fast & Furious movies, and any PoP music. I realized that I had been eating more salads and all around bland food, yelling at neighborhood kids for stepping on the grass, listening to classic rock, going to bed early, calling FO's "Kid, Chief, Son, and Sport", and driving the speed limit.

So on that day, I purposely drove the minivan crossover hybrid POS thingy into the ditch, set it on fire, and went out and bought a b!tchin sweet poon magnet Super Musclecar (on credit). I shaved out the greyhairs, dyed the rest, and gave myself frosted blonde tips. I got a hip gangster tattoo on my neck (that #%=_Äin HURT!), made it rain at a strip club (FFR, stay away from Staletto's in Dallas. They won't let you throw change... WTF!?!?) Hired a hooker to try some blow with, but she turned out to be a COP! Quit my job to become a cook at Twin Peaks,andpart time strip club DJ. That was a bad idea...

Thanks for ruining my life LVA!!!!

Pedro4President
05-22-2018, 06:11 PM
In all fairness it took me about 8-9 months to get back to DFW from LGA (new hire class July 2017)and there were classes of 50-60 people back then after mine for a while.. it looks like now the classes are a lot smaller like 25-30 people max so based on that I guess you could figure a little over a year now?

Facts are a bit different then and now. FOs going to both 145 ORD/LGA. LGA was growing and DFW was stagnant. New LOA will push out the senior FOs faster out of DFW. Yes hiring is significantly less and some are even CAs. So it really is hard to put a number to it. Hiring is still relatively high and will continue to be significant.
I'd be shocked if you under estimated the time but I wouldn't be shocked if your predictions is fairly accurate.

bigtime209
05-22-2018, 06:33 PM
It's basically gauranteed if you're a cadet, provided they actually offer it. You are also likely to get it if you are very old. Born in the 70's? CRJ tends to go senior because they aren't offering ORD 145 and people will do anything to avoid NY historically, although the LOA might help?

Don't come here if you aren't comfortable with a 2 year sentence to LGA 145 as an FO though, no one can tell you exactly how long it will take to escape from New York and there have been entire classes where NO 175 slots were offered and everyone got the flush.

Envoy has capped classes but is not restricting pipelines - cadets, etc. and still seems to be running 2 classes a month.

2 years dude? Hahaha C'mon. That's a bunch of horse sheeeeeiiiiit.

Pedro4President
05-23-2018, 02:00 AM
2 years dude? Hahaha C'mon. That's a bunch of horse sheeeeeiiiiit.

Lol. If an FO NH was forced to stay in LGA for two years then that FO would upgrade and hold DFW as a CA right away. Lol.

The information this guy puts out has always be shady.

Bigpimppilot
05-23-2018, 06:32 AM
How many guys are upgrading a year now. How big is the pilot group? When the guys from the start of the wave start to get 1000 121 time then there will be no more street captains. Just like when a few years ago people realized psa had hired their last super fast upgrade and those hired for the rest of the fleet growth would be fos for some time. Please save this post and throw it back at me if Iím wrong. I predict street captains end in 6 months. Donít be that last street captain hired.

NoValueAviator
05-23-2018, 06:51 AM
Even with the personal attacks, I hope you guys are right and anything approaching 2 years or even 1 year is a hilarious overestimation.

Hockeyjr1
05-23-2018, 08:23 AM
Iím about to apply soon and was wondering if anyone has a decent time frame of when I would be able to start class. No 121 time but 700 hrs of multi and a Captain referral will be with my resume. Think this might help at all? I donít mind waiting a little as Iíve been on the road for the last 8 months. Iím avoiding republic as I know they are on their way out. PSA is another option but financially crippling with moving. I live 2 hrs from MIA.

Jamesthunder
05-23-2018, 10:21 AM
Iím about to apply soon and was wondering if anyone has a decent time frame of when I would be able to start class. No 121 time but 700 hrs of multi and a Captain referral will be with my resume. Think this might help at all? I donít mind waiting a little as Iíve been on the road for the last 8 months. Iím avoiding republic as I know they are on their way out. PSA is another option but financially crippling with moving. I live 2 hrs from MIA.

I think right now, they've all but stalled out non 121 hiring. A friend of mine I referred was placed into the hiring pool and I questioned the recruitment department on it and they wouldn't give me an update.

The problem is we have a lot of first officers stuck on reserve who are meeting their consolidation hours (100 hours after IOE in a certain time period).

I think until that backfill starts to decrease, it won't happen except for a trickle.

Ijustlikeflying
05-23-2018, 10:21 AM
Iím about to apply soon and was wondering if anyone has a decent time frame of when I would be able to start class. No 121 time but 700 hrs of multi and a Captain referral will be with my resume. Think this might help at all? I donít mind waiting a little as Iíve been on the road for the last 8 months. Iím avoiding republic as I know they are on their way out. PSA is another option but financially crippling with moving. I live 2 hrs from MIA.

Just have your captain buddy shoot an email to recruitment with a recommendation. Donít move your family, you can have Miami here within 3 to 5months and probably keep it your entire time here unless there is another economic recession. Republic is on their way out and if they arenít it still currently takes almost 2 years to even hold a reserve FO slot in MIA and no career progression gaurenteed.

Hockeyjr1
05-23-2018, 10:36 AM
I think right now, they've all but stalled out non 121 hiring. A friend of mine I referred was placed into the hiring pool and I questioned the recruitment department on it and they wouldn't give me an update.

The problem is we have a lot of first officers stuck on reserve who are meeting their consolidation hours (100 hours after IOE in a certain time period).

I think until that backfill starts to decrease, it won't happen except for a trickle.

Whatís the issue with the FOís hitting 100 hours actually mean? Sorry Iím just completely on the outside right now.

Hockeyjr1
05-23-2018, 11:25 AM
Just have your captain buddy shoot an email to recruitment with a recommendation. Donít move your family, you can have Miami here within 3 to 5months and probably keep it your entire time here unless there is another economic recession. Republic is on their way out and if they arenít it still currently takes almost 2 years to even hold a reserve FO slot in MIA and no career progression gaurenteed.

Yeah Iíll have him do just that. Thanks for the help. Basically a crap shoot with republic and MIA and if thatís the case Iíd rather move to CLT for PSA. I can move if really needed as I donít have a family of my own, but trying to save money for a house would be easier out of MIA for a bit.

Cyio
05-23-2018, 01:26 PM
Whatís the issue with the FOís hitting 100 hours actually mean? Sorry Iím just completely on the outside right now.
Means we are FO heavy. Consolidation just means you have to have flown 100 hours within your first 3 months after ioe.

flysooner9
05-23-2018, 02:23 PM
I predict street captains end in 6 months. Donít be that last street captain hired.

Until attrition picks up even more and they still want to grown the airline.

Bigpimppilot
05-23-2018, 06:15 PM
Havenít we hired like 1000 guys in the last 2 years. I donít have the facts but Iíd be willing to bet that in the next few months there will be a ton of guys that will have 1000 hrs 121 time. Yes, after all that fiber passes then attrition could come into play. But what do I know

Fopuddle
06-28-2018, 08:53 AM
UPDATED POST :
Fleet count and 401k contribution

FLEET :
CRJ 700 : 16
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, starting after summer 2019, through the beginning of 2020.
EMB 140/145 : 110+ Throughout 2018-2019
American has elected not to renew its contracts with ExpressJet and Trans States. Envoy is currently in the process of taking over these 30 aircraft. Transfers to Piedmont are anticipated to continue through the first part of 2019.
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019. Total of 69 aircrafts by the end of 2019. 15 options.

*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 7%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employee’ spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 100$ premium per pay period.
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancy” LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 10/2017
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 3/2017
EMB 175 ORD: 7/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

* dates could be slightly off. Direct entry captain not included.

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesn’t change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
......Fleet count and 401k.......

Bigpimppilot
06-28-2018, 10:14 AM
Insurance is 50 per pay period. 100 a month

Fopuddle
06-28-2018, 10:46 AM
UPDATED POST :
Fleet count, medical and 401k contribution

FLEET :
CRJ 700 : 16
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, starting after summer 2019, through the beginning of 2020.
EMB 140/145 : 110+ Throughout 2018-2019
American has elected not to renew its contracts with ExpressJet and Trans States. Envoy is currently in the process of taking over these 30 aircraft. Transfers to Piedmont are anticipated to continue through the first part of 2019.
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019. Total of 69 aircrafts by the end of 2019. 15 options.

*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 7%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 50$ premium per pay period. (100$ per month)
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancyĒ LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 10/2017
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 3/2017
EMB 175 ORD: 7/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

* dates could be slightly off. Direct entry captain not included.

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
......Fleet count and 401k.......
..............insurance...............

BigZ
06-28-2018, 12:20 PM
FLEET :
CRJ 700 : 16

I counted 21 today

Fopuddle
06-28-2018, 06:10 PM
UPDATED POST :
Fleet count, medical and 401k contribution

FLEET :
CRJ 700 : 21
Fleet to be progressively removed, at about 1 to 2 per month, starting after summer 2019, through the beginning of 2020.
EMB 140/145 : 110+ Throughout 2018-2019
American has elected not to renew its contracts with ExpressJet and Trans States. Envoy is currently in the process of taking over these 30 aircraft. Transfers to Piedmont are anticipated to continue through the first part of 2019.
EMB 175 : 44
25 aircrafts to be added. 10 in the last quarter of 2018 and 15 starting April 2019. Total of 69 aircrafts by the end of 2019. 15 options.

*numbers are ballpark figures since a fleet count changes frequently.

BASES :
CRJ 700 : ORD
EMB 140/145 : ORD, NYC ( co domicile LGA / JFK), DFW, MIA
EMB 175 : ORD, DFW
No official word on future bases

PAY :
FIrst Officer :
year 1 - 38$, year 2 - 40$, year 3 - 41$, year 4 - 42$, year 8 - 48$
Retention bonus of 2500$ per quarter after first year.
Sign-on bonus of up to 22000$, which requires a 2 year commitment.
Captain :
year 1 - 65$, year 2 - 67$, year 3 - 69$, year 4 - 71$, year 12 - 90$
Sign-on bonus of up to 45000$ for Direct entry captain. This requires at least 950 hours of part 121 experience
Perdiem :
1.90$ per hour on duty
Starts when signing in for the trip. Sign in is 45 minutes prior to departure.
Ends 15 minutes after blocking in from the last flight of the trip.
A four day trip earns 65 to 80 hours of perdiem.
401K :
company match 50% up to 7%
Medical :
Available as a shared cost between the employee and the company
If the employeeí spouse is on the plan but could have insurance elsewhere, there is a 50$ premium per pay period. (100$ per month)
Additional bonuses :
Profit sharing is paid during the first quarter of each year. It is based on a portion of the yearly profits of AAG.
Quarterly performance bonuses are paid the following month. It is based on on-time performance and completion factor system wide. Pilots can earn up to 100$ a month.
Guarantee :
Pay is for 100% of awarded line, including OT, reassignments, cancellations, and junior man. It is based on the greater of either scheduled or actual block hours ; on a leg by leg basis.
It excludes negative trip trades, drops or missed assignments ( commute issues )
Paychecks are on the 15th of the month and on the last day of the month. The first check is for half of the monthly guarantee of the month. The second one is for the other half, plus both perdiem and hours above guarantee from the previous month.
Additional benefits :
Pilots assigned NYC as a base will, for three months, be given positive space to and from work between trips or block of reserve days. They will also have unlimited commuter hotels.
Under regular circumstances and for other statuses, pilots are allowed 4 paid commuter hotels per month.

UPGRADE :
Current upgrade pace has changed dramatically in the past year. Envoy went from 6-7 years upgrade to virtually be as soon as a pilot gets on property.
For a zero part 121 experience pilot, he/she will need to reach 950 hours as a first officer to be awarded an upgrade. It takes about a year and a half. Currently, due to a shortage of captains, Once he/she has the hours, he/she will be automatically sent to upgrade class. This will happen through either a vacancy bid or , outside a vacancy bid by a letter of agreement called the "standing vacancyĒ LOA. The pilot invoking his right using the LOA would volunteer to upgrade, as oppose to being displaced. Pilots currently do not have the option to bypass upgrade and this could force a pilot to upgrade into a status ( base, airplane ), regardless of preference. If a pilot is displaced, he/she is not locked into the status and therefore can bid for other statuses. When he/she can hold that status, he/she will be awarded it. A first officer should plan on having a short amount of time to learn the company policies and how to operate safely and legally in the 121 world. They should ask questions or seek advices from experienced pilots every time they re not sure about something ( DTG, MTX procedures, releases ( bingo fuel, alternates... )
For a pilot with previous experience and hired as a direct entry captain, a captain status will be awarded in new hire class.
Any pilot awarded a captain seat, not in line with seniority, should plan on being on reserve for a few months. Essentially any senior pilot on the list, who finally reaches the 950 hours required to upgrade, will have priority in choosing a status and will automatically go on top of more junior pilots in that status.
The junior captain base is the embraer 140/145 in NYC.
Junior captains per status :
EMB 140/145 MIA : 10/2017
EMB 140/145 LGA :12/2017
EMB 140/145 ORD : 8/2017
EMB 140/145 DFW : 3/2017
EMB 175 ORD: 7/2016
EMB 175 DFW : 4/2015
CRJ 700 ORD : 1/2017

* dates could be slightly off. Direct entry captain not included.

SCHEDULE :
Minimum guarantee is 72 hours ( 3.7 hours per day ) for line holders and 75 hours for reserve holders ( 3.9 hours per day )
Minimum guarantee days off are 11 days.
Currently, a newhire first officer, can expect to be off reserve in just a couple months, regardless of base or airplane, with possibly the exception of the CRJ.
Schedule bidding happens between the 15th and 20th of each month.
Lines can be 1,2,3 or 4 day trips. The cadance mostly doesnít change throughout the month.
Most trips have two or three days off in between. The EMJ schedules also have CDO lines.
Block of reserve days are mostly 4 to 5 days followed by 2 to 3 days off.
First day of reserve block has a company pre assigned status. Usually a 4 am on call, called reserve availability period. If senior enough, a pilot can proffer and be awarded something else. Reserve proffering takes place between 10am and 2pm central time everyday. The award takes place at 5 pm central time for the following day. Proffering can include 2 hour short call, airport standby or any open trips.
RAPs ( reserve availability period ) are on call duties of 16 hours. Call out is 2 hours.
Airport standby are 8 hours duty period.

FLOWTHROUGH :
The flowthrough agreement provides envoy pilot with a direct path to mainline American Airlines. The transition is seamless. No additional interview required. Essentially, the years spent at Envoy serve as a lengthy selection process.
Currently, as of may 2018, 10 year envoy pilots are flowing. By the end of 2019, pilots flowing will have been on property at Envoy, since 2011. This would put the flow to around 8 years. Based on union projections, a pilot hired in 2017 would flow around 2025. This puts the flow around 8 years for current new pilots. The company has been more optimistic and suggests it will take about 6 years.
The flow rate varies depending on date of hire.
For pilots hired before the 11th of October 2011, Envoy will fill up to 50% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 29 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired between the 11th of October 2011 and the 23rd of December 2014, Envoy will fill up to 35% of available new hire training slots at AA, but No fewer than 15 pilots can be withheld by envoy.
For pilots hired after the 23rd of December 2014, envoy will flow pilots to match the lesser of
a) 25% of all AA training slots in that calendar year or
b) five new hire training slots ( increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the seniority list ) multiplied by the number of calendar months in that calendar year.

Just trying to have a fact based thread about Envoy to help people decide whether or not this is the place for them to come work for.
I am a 8 year captain. I have seen this company and industry drastically change in the past 2 years.
I have no axe to grind. I am not here to sell anything. I am not here to encourage anyone to come here nor am i here to deter anyone from joining our ranks.
My opinion doesnt matter which is why i have no intention on giving it.
Any questions are welcomed.
Anyone who wants to answer any questions asked on this thread should try to keep it fact based.
It offers a lot more help to people than the endless bickering found on a lot of threads.

......... UPDATED POST .........
......Fleet count and 401k.......
..............insurance...............

Fopuddle
06-28-2018, 06:11 PM
FLEET :
CRJ 700 : 16

I counted 21 today

Thx for the info.
Can you tell me where you found the count.

BigZ
06-28-2018, 06:33 PM
Thx for the info.
Can you tell me where you found the count.

In decs RGF/CRJ gives you a list
Once a plane goes to DAY it gets removed from the list in a week or two



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