Airline Pilot Forums

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nightsky2
05-10-2018, 12:59 PM
Thereís a lot of trash talk on APC about ATI. I canít speak for anyone else but myself so here goes; Contract at ATI for an ACMI carrier is good but not great. Much better than it was and certainly not Purple or Brown. We are not Purple or Brown so I donít expect their contract.

The flying, like anywhere, can be easy or challenging depending on the airport, geography, geo-political climate (we go to some weird places on the planet) and weather. Some of the trips are one and done with 20+ hour layovers. Plenty of time for a good meal, some brews, take in a museum, movie or whatever. Great bunch of very professional pilots to fly with.

Do you want to fly passengers? Bid the combis once you can hold them.

I held a line the first bid period that I was eligible (post IOE / line check). New contract has resulted in slightly better take-home, net pay for first year F/O's. Captains and 2nd year and above F/Oís have seen substantial increases. Most of the time there is plenty of extra flying if you want it. Contract gives us +4 hours above guarantee for every day of extra or JA flying.

As has been mentioned in some threads all employees, not just pilots, enjoy a good relationship with management from what I can see. There are always outliers who will never be happy. I canít fix that.

Canít beat positive space travel and home basing. Because we are home based, we donít pay imputed taxes on our positive spaced trips to/from work. I typically take an Uber to my local airport (6 miles driving or about 4 as the crow flies) and pay no parking fees and never sweat it if I donít make it in either direction. Get to keep the travel points too.

Training pay is base pay from day one + per diem. Training is professional with no games. You know what to do. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in.

Donít want to fly at night? Find a day job. I can attest that I have heard every major airline and most regionals at every hour of the clock. If all you ever wanted to do was fly, and hang out with some great folks this is the place. Again, itís not purple or brown or D, U, A, or SWA. If they hire you, fantastic! Go enjoy your life. If youíre young or old and want to fly heavy jets ATI is great. Want to use it as a stepping stone? Great! I can tell you that I know pilots who have left here who have a way bigger paycheck than me but hate every minute at their job.

Iíve only been here for 6 months but I have flown passengers for 24 years and was a commuter for 22 of those so my family could have a hometown with a little stability. So I guess that makes me an old guy. I still love flying and once again love my job.

The way I see it, this is the one of the best kept secrets in the industry.


Jurassic Jet
05-10-2018, 01:21 PM
Hmmm. First post. Yeah, youíre not management.

Industry Strnd
05-10-2018, 01:47 PM
Best kept secrets that everybody works 16 days in a row with pilots who accepted a contract that is much less than their peers, crossed a picket line, didn't support a single carrier to stop regional like wipsaw.

4 hours of low pay for being fored to work on your day off. Wow what a deal.
This is obviously a pilot that fit's the mold of low expectations or management. If the place truely had a good contract and reputation there would be no need to try and sell unspecting potential new hires on here. Any smart pilot would be bargaining for better pay for all to attract pilots rather than a sales job of trying to convince someone it's not that bad.


woog315
05-10-2018, 01:49 PM
Now this is hilarious. You work for an airline alongside scabs and have a MEC that directly does management's bidding. You have a "good relationship" with management because you are their *****es and help them whipsaw another pilot group that has the balls to stand up for themselves and fight for something resembling an industry standard contract.

I consider myself a middle of the road guy and would like to see my company and union work together somewhat and don't expect a FedEx contract, but you're an embarrasment.

motorclutch
05-10-2018, 02:06 PM
Now now boys, be nice to night sky ! He likes the feeling of managements hand in his pocket. Oh you forgot to add, your scheduling director was rumored to have been fired for FAA issues. Maybe that ďprofessionalismĒ you speak of stops at the cockpit door.

nightsky2
05-10-2018, 02:56 PM
Öbut of course the same angry posters are back to posting their anger. Can you wear an ALPA pin with a star? I havenít met any scabs here but the last time I checked, the only strike ABX attempted was neither cleared through the NMB, nor was the company released to self-help. Obviously, I was not here then.

I support every pilot group in their efforts to better themselves and the industry. So when are you going to get a contract? Is it true that there really is no solidarity at certain carriers? At the ones I worked for; when 1 pilot was furloughed NO ONE flew extra time.

Rumor I hear is several (at least 2) ACMI carriers have very senior pilots who do nothing but make their own wallets as fat as possible and really donít give a ratís a$$ about the rest of the pilot group. How can you even get to a 30 day cooling off period (required under the NMB), much less advance to a strike?

Haterís are gonna hate. Iím just posting so some fresh faces will consider and see that this is a good place to work.

Jurassic Jet
05-10-2018, 04:07 PM
Be gone management troll.

Kougarok
05-10-2018, 05:10 PM
The way I see it, this is the one of the best kept secrets in the industry.

Are you ****ing serious? You’re totally clueless or a management Troll......

motorclutch
05-10-2018, 05:11 PM
Well sounds like Mr Railway Labor Act is in the House ! The NMB has nothing to do with status quo violations during section six negotiations. But you knew that didnít you. Did Meth Mouth give you the briefing? Or was it plantation master JV? Regardless, enjoy your ATM relationship with your management. Yes....haters hate SCABS!

Industry Strnd
05-10-2018, 09:29 PM
Öbut of course the same angry posters are back to posting their anger. Can you wear an ALPA pin with a star? I havenít met any scabs here but the last time I checked, the only strike ABX attempted was neither cleared through the NMB, nor was the company released to self-help. Obviously, I was not here then.

I support every pilot group in their efforts to better themselves and the industry. So when are you going to get a contract? Is it true that there really is no solidarity at certain carriers? At the ones I worked for; when 1 pilot was furloughed NO ONE flew extra time.

Rumor I hear is several (at least 2) ACMI carriers have very senior pilots who do nothing but make their own wallets as fat as possible and really donít give a ratís a$$ about the rest of the pilot group. How can you even get to a 30 day cooling off period (required under the NMB), much less advance to a strike?

Haterís are gonna hate. Iím just posting so some fresh faces will consider and see that this is a good place to work.

If you think pilots are dumb and want to work with pilots who sell themselves and the industry short you should find plenty of takers!

Worst new acmi contract
Pilots who cross picket lines
Mec with no experience and cave to threats and empty promises
No retirement
Bids with paper
Can't trip trade
Scope that expires (seriously that deserves a medal) I don't think anyone has ever agreed to those terms.
Wow but there are some swell old guys to fly with that have to stay till 65 and pray it gets raised to 70 because they never had the cajones to demand a respectable DC plan.

Yeah great place to work. keep trying management, your efforts won't make up for a bottom barrel contract that most said ....what the hxll take it till a better place to work calls which won't be real hard, everyone pays better, has a better qol, and much higher retirement.
If you have to apply here, seriously look at yourself in the mirror your services can do better. Don't take your self to their low expectations you can and will do much better. Taking a job "Just Over Broker" at ATI is giving up on yourself and your profession. Hold your dignity and have some self respect!

Industry Strnd
05-10-2018, 10:02 PM
I'm sorry I think I might be wrong. I got to thinking this might not be a bad move for some pilots to think about going to ati. I mean the majority of FOs that I talked too said they voted yes to take a small pay increase so they could be higher paid while they wait to get out!

The growth has stopped there are no more amazon planes announced to be coming, the 321s are 2 years away, amazon publicly stated it will be 5-7 years before the cvg hub is done.

So in the mean time there will be many fos at ATI leaving, it's a great opportunity for new fos to come in a gain seniority quickly to choose a different 16 day on schedule!

nightsky2
05-11-2018, 04:44 AM
The point of my post is not to reinvigorate the ATI vs ABX debate that goes on daily on APC. It was merely to provide an insiderís perspective for anyone contemplating working here. It is to start with an answer instead of a question; which I have seen posted on other threads re: ATI.

There are better companies to work for, if measured by contracts, and there are much worse places to work for, by any measure.

I am not here to waste everyoneís time arguing the finer points of the raw deal ABX (or any other carrier) pilots live under. You guys do a fantastic job of that every day. Donít like your conditions? Change them. Quit the job you hate and get a better one.

BTW contrary to some responses, I have always been and am now a line pilot. I have never worked a single day in any airlineís office. I have volunteered and worked for an ALPA committee for several years. Iím in the CVG sort every day that they send me, with you too. There have been numerous ABX pilots in the jumpseats of planes I have flown and I have enjoyed their company.

Have a nice day.

Whale Driver
05-11-2018, 05:18 AM
Then why do you only have 3 post - all on this thread only?

nightsky2
05-11-2018, 05:49 AM
Then why do you only have 3 post - all on this thread only?

Because I spend my most of my time doing the things I like, spending time with my family, working around the house, flying and hanging out with the guys Iím on a trip with.

Like most flying pilots I have neither the time nor the desire to be a constant poster on APC. I wonder if some of you ever fly at all. Most of the posters on APC (especially under cargo) are always the same ones. The subjects of the posts from these same people are largely the same, that is; who hates ATI the most?

I need to get back to my yard.

motorclutch
05-11-2018, 05:51 AM
Because heís a peace maker. Probably JV or one of his lemmings.

Jurassic Jet
05-11-2018, 06:16 AM
Then why do you only have 3 post - all on this thread only?

Yep. And registered shortly after our strike in 2016 and this was his first post.

Industry Strnd
05-11-2018, 09:36 AM
Despartion on ATI management. .alpa should be telling management no help on new hires just pay the pilots properly and pilots will flow in.

They are making the same mistake the regionals made at first
.Pilots bending over trying to recruit because they think it help should them grow when if they just sit back and let it fail they all get paid.

Even the regionals were smart enough to see the leverage. I'm sure alpa at ATI will bend over after the useless attempts on here to attract pilots and give in to mgt and raise new hire pay with nothing financial for the rest if the pilots. If that happens the should recall all the reps or send alpa packing.

midnightshuttle
05-13-2018, 08:49 AM
22yrs at the regionals, that gives it away to about 3 peeps. All are good good pilots and great guys.

I had the same feeling 6mo in. My group was knowingly lied too. Management here goes by the Mesa Model. I agree with him its a good place to get some time and hopefully move on as most are trying. Our negotiators said ďthis isnt purple or brown but they are hiringĒ. Crews here took the advice as I see it. The biggest problem is the reputation of this company preceding your interview.

Out Of Trim
05-17-2018, 01:40 PM
I'm sure alpa at ATI will bend over after the useless attempts on here to attract pilots and give in to mgt and raise new hire pay with nothing financial for the rest if the pilots.
Or worse, they could follow the regionalís lead and start giving huge sign-on bonuses to new hires. That money could have gone toward higher wages to retain pilots by keeping them a little happier financially, but ALPA did basically nothing to combat that practice.

MentalMidget
05-19-2018, 05:11 AM
There’s a lot of trash talk on APC about ATI. I can’t speak for anyone else but myself so here goes; Contract at ATI for an ACMI carrier is good but not great. Much better than it was and certainly not Purple or Brown. We are not Purple or Brown so I don’t expect their contract.

The flying, like anywhere, can be easy or challenging depending on the airport, geography, geo-political climate (we go to some weird places on the planet) and weather. Some of the trips are one and done with 20+ hour layovers. Plenty of time for a good meal, some brews, take in a museum, movie or whatever. Great bunch of very professional pilots to fly with.

Do you want to fly passengers? Bid the combis once you can hold them.

I held a line the first bid period that I was eligible (post IOE / line check). New contract has resulted in slightly better take-home, net pay for first year F/O's. Captains and 2nd year and above F/O’s have seen substantial increases. Most of the time there is plenty of extra flying if you want it. Contract gives us +4 hours above guarantee for every day of extra or JA flying.

As has been mentioned in some threads all employees, not just pilots, enjoy a good relationship with management from what I can see. There are always outliers who will never be happy. I can’t fix that.

Can’t beat positive space travel and home basing. Because we are home based, we don’t pay imputed taxes on our positive spaced trips to/from work. I typically take an Uber to my local airport (6 miles driving or about 4 as the crow flies) and pay no parking fees and never sweat it if I don’t make it in either direction. Get to keep the travel points too.

Training pay is base pay from day one + per diem. Training is professional with no games. You know what to do. Like anything else, you get out of it what you put in.

Don’t want to fly at night? Find a day job. I can attest that I have heard every major airline and most regionals at every hour of the clock. If all you ever wanted to do was fly, and hang out with some great folks this is the place. Again, it’s not purple or brown or D, U, A, or SWA. If they hire you, fantastic! Go enjoy your life. If you’re young or old and want to fly heavy jets ATI is great. Want to use it as a stepping stone? Great! I can tell you that I know pilots who have left here who have a way bigger paycheck than me but hate every minute at their job.

I’ve only been here for 6 months but I have flown passengers for 24 years and was a commuter for 22 of those so my family could have a hometown with a little stability. So I guess that makes me an old guy. I still love flying and once again love my job.

The way I see it, this is the one of the best kept secrets in the industry.

Good grief give me a break, I know BS when I smell it- sounds like an infomercial for ATI

motorclutch
05-19-2018, 08:16 AM
I guess this guy is JVís submission for his new chief pilot.

jhugz
05-19-2018, 09:24 AM
Back on track and onto the important questions...how many Amazon Bag Tags do you get in Indoc and can I get more by crossing a 1224 picket line in the future?

airbus300
05-19-2018, 10:59 AM
Back on track and onto the important questions...how many Amazon Bag Tags do you get in Indoc and can I get more by crossing a 1224 picket line in the future?

Was thinking about buying a smaller type black, hard-shell suit case with 4 swivel wheels. It would work good on some of the shorter trips away from home that we have. The only issue is that it has a label on the side that says Amazon Basics. Would something like this get me in trouble with the APC Amazon bag tag police?

dynap09
05-19-2018, 11:35 AM
Nightsky

I'd ignore the claims of being part of management - about as credible as most of the other claims.

I knew bag tags were going to come up... it's like the jealous high school ex - I hate him, I'll never talk to him again, I never want to see him. Over and over... your like - um, if you were over them we wouldn't be hearing about them *all the time*. Seriously, amazon bag tags show up all the time.

Then it's "respect us"... followed by endless personal insults - bucky, meth mouth, red faced - I don't remember them all. Literally grade school stuff.

Best ignored for the most part.

nitefr8dog
05-20-2018, 02:20 PM
Nightsky

I'd ignore the claims of being part of management - about as credible as most of the other claims.

I knew bag tags were going to come up... it's like the jealous high school ex - I hate him, I'll never talk to him again, I never want to see him. Over and over... your like - um, if you were over them we wouldn't be hearing about them *all the time*. Seriously, amazon bag tags show up all the time.

Then it's "respect us"... followed by endless personal insults - bucky, meth mouth, red faced - I don't remember them all. Literally grade school stuff.

Best ignored for the most part.
But you haven't.......you're still here

midnightshuttle
05-25-2018, 12:00 PM
Nightsky

I'd ignore the claims of being part of management - about as credible as most of the other claims.

I knew bag tags were going to come up... it's like the jealous high school ex - I hate him, I'll never talk to him again, I never want to see him. Over and over... your like - um, if you were over them we wouldn't be hearing about them *all the time*. Seriously, amazon bag tags show up all the time.

Then it's "respect us"... followed by endless personal insults - bucky, meth mouth, red faced - I don't remember them all. Literally grade school stuff.




Best ignored for the most part.





Hold your horse partner


I CREATED the "Red Face Bucky Name"

That meth mouth lied to us all, so I may create and use names at will.

nightsky2
06-30-2018, 05:10 PM
ATI hiring window is opening 6 -16 July. If you want to work here you need to at least start the application and establish a UN & PW. You should be able to go back to it any time later, including after the window is closed. The application will probably take more time than most. Referral letters seem to have a lot of weight. Good luck!

nitefr8dog
07-01-2018, 06:33 AM
ATI hiring window is opening 6 -16 July. If you want to work here you need to at least start the application and establish a UN & PW. You should be able to go back to it any time later, including after the window is closed. The application will probably take more time than most. Referral letters seem to have a lot of weight. Good luck!
You don't!

WillFlyForSpam
07-09-2018, 05:05 PM
Been stalking this page for awhile now. I just did the app and got auto rejected by page 6. I have all the posted requirements except for the ď75/76 experience preferredĒ box. Is that the kicker or am I missing a super top secret non-posted requirement? Any help is greatly appreciated.

ke4lir
07-09-2018, 06:26 PM
You don't!I do!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Industry Strnd
07-09-2018, 09:39 PM
Part 117 rest doesn't exist here or any acmi, trips 16 days in a row....trip trades nope, retirement yeah right, 401k worse than regionals. Pilots willing to fly for less than everyone else flying a 767. A few will even get on here and try to convince you how great life is crossing picket lines, not working to raise the bar and then negotiating for scope that expires! Nothing to see here!

nitefr8dog
07-10-2018, 07:14 AM
I do!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Good luck!

Almost There
07-10-2018, 08:51 AM
Been stalking this page for awhile now. I just did the app and got auto rejected by page 6. I have all the posted requirements except for the ď75/76 experience preferredĒ box. Is that the kicker or am I missing a super top secret non-posted requirement? Any help is greatly appreciated.

The "auto rejected" has saved you from interviewing at ATI. You should take this as a good sign and move on. Good Luck

gptjjbmj
07-10-2018, 11:45 AM
Been stalking this page for awhile now. I just did the app and got auto rejected by page 6. I have all the posted requirements except for the ď75/76 experience preferredĒ box. Is that the kicker or am I missing a super top secret non-posted requirement? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Most new hires in the last 2 years did not have any 75/76 experience. Something else is wrong. I'd retry or check your settings.

nightsky2
07-12-2018, 12:25 PM
Been stalking this page for awhile now. I just did the app and got auto rejected by page 6. I have all the posted requirements except for the ď75/76 experience preferredĒ box. Is that the kicker or am I missing a super top secret non-posted requirement? Any help is greatly appreciated.

It may kick you out for an extended period of inactivity. Ditto what gp said too.

WillFlyForSpam
07-12-2018, 07:03 PM
It may kick you out for an extended period of inactivity. Ditto what gp said too.


Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually dug around and emailed HR about it and yes there was an error. Itís been corrected and I did the app to the end. Thanks again!!!

Industry Strnd
07-24-2018, 11:55 PM
Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually dug around and emailed HR about it and yes there was an error. Itís been corrected and I did the app to the end. Thanks again!!!

Well did you get the job? Have you got Jr manned yet and had to work extra days for free? 64 hour min guarantee and extra days don't pay extra until over 64 hours? What regionals pay a 64 hour gurantee like ATI?

Industry Strnd
07-25-2018, 12:01 AM
Just curious did they tell you in the interview that Amazon has stopped delivery of planes? Did they mention that management wipsaws ABX and ATI like you saw at the regionals? Did they mention if you work at ATI no matter when you're hired pilots will always question if you crossed a picket line? Pilots will wonder if you were there and voted yes for a contract that is much less than peer airlines in rates, retirement, and work rules? Did they mention ALPA did a sales job to sell an inferior contrct to OMNI at the same time they got a much better TA?

2lowflaps
07-25-2018, 12:15 AM
Been stalking this page for awhile now. I just did the app and got auto rejected by page 6. I have all the posted requirements except for the ď75/76 experience preferredĒ box. Is that the kicker or am I missing a super top secret non-posted requirement? Any help is greatly appreciated.

You have a guardian angel.

Whitesnake
07-25-2018, 08:17 AM
Thanks everyone for the replies. I actually dug around and emailed HR about it and yes there was an error. Itís been corrected and I did the app to the end. Thanks again!!!

I hesitate to congratulate anyone for that accomplishment.

nightsky2
08-10-2018, 12:11 PM
ATI pilot hiring window opens 13-17 August.

Industry Strnd
08-10-2018, 12:23 PM
ATI pilot hiring window opens 13-17 August.

Yeah I bet pilots can't wait to apply and be known as a scab the rest of their career!

Work for an ACMI carrier that has a weak ALPA union who caved on a contract less than everyone else. If the same pilots go to K4 they will have much better pay, work rules and retirement.

Let's point out all the 40-50 yr old lifers who are captains not going any where.

Sign up for some of that 16 day in a row schedule with no ability to trip trade!

nightsky2
08-10-2018, 12:33 PM
Yeah I bet pilots can't wait to apply and be known as a scab the rest of their career!

Work for an ACMI carrier that has a weak ALPA union who caved on a contract less than everyone else. If the same pilots go to K4 they will have much better pay, work rules and retirement.

Let's point out all the 40-50 yr old lifers who are captains not going any where.

Sign up for some of that 16 day in a row schedule with no ability to trip trade!

So there's no one on strike. Explain how they would become scabs. Our schedules are pretty good. At least we aren't 18 days on. What's the matter with being 40-50 years old? I knew this would bring out the haters. Now it's just fun watching you react.

b707guy
08-10-2018, 06:55 PM
Yeah I bet pilots can't wait to apply and be known as a scab the rest of their career!

Work for an ACMI carrier that has a weak ALPA union who caved on a contract less than everyone else. If the same pilots go to K4 they will have much better pay, work rules and retirement.

Let's point out all the 40-50 yr old lifers who are captains not going any where.

Sign up for some of that 16 day in a row schedule with no ability to trip trade!


Enough of your blowhard crap. Last to first:


"Trip swapping by Pilots is permitted, providing no additional legal time
liabilities, or additional financial expense will be incurred by the Company.
Each Pilot accepting the swapped trip is responsible for the coverage of the trip. Each Pilot desiring to trade his trip must contact Crew Scheduling and confirm his desire to trade and receive approval from the Manager of Crew Scheduling or his designee, and if denied he may review with the Chief Pilot. Such approval will not be unreasonably withheld."


That's right there in our current crappy CBA for anyone to peruse. Either you're too stupid to read, or you prefer to make up your own self-serving story and vomit it out as fact.



It's not as easy, with purchased tickets and all, but we can still do it. So get over your damned self.


Pilots are where they are for their own reasons, age is only one factor. Get over your damned self.


Pilots going to K4 enjoy pretty much exactly the same as we do with only slight variations in the details. Which is MORE than you, clown. Get over your damned self.


There are no scabs flying the line at ATI. Period. ATI was not on strike. If 1224 had the balls to strike any customers instead of creating their fantasy-world "struck work area", and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if 1224 had the balls to at least give the ATI MEC a few hours notice that they were going to pull that crap, we could have come up with a way to help. But that wasn't the way they wanted to play. So now you feel justified in running around screaming epithets like a stuck pig. Guess what - NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD CARES. Just ask ANY AA, UA, DA, Brown, Purple, etc, pilot. Get over your damned self. You helped make the bed you're in. Now sleep in it.

Industry Strnd
08-11-2018, 04:15 AM
Enough of your blowhard crap. Last to first:


"Trip swapping by Pilots is permitted, providing no additional legal time
liabilities, or additional financial expense will be incurred by the Company.
Each Pilot accepting the swapped trip is responsible for the coverage of the trip. Each Pilot desiring to trade his trip must contact Crew Scheduling and confirm his desire to trade and receive approval from the Manager of Crew Scheduling or his designee, and if denied he may review with the Chief Pilot. Such approval will not be unreasonably withheld."


That's right there in our current crappy CBA for anyone to peruse. Either you're too stupid to read, or you prefer to make up your own self-serving story and vomit it out as fact.



It's not as easy, with purchased tickets and all, but we can still do it. So get over your damned self.


Pilots are where they are for their own reasons, age is only one factor. Get over your damned self.


Pilots going to K4 enjoy pretty much exactly the same as we do with only slight variations in the details. Which is MORE than you, clown. Get over your damned self.


There are no scabs flying the line at ATI. Period. ATI was not on strike. If 1224 had the balls to strike any customers instead of creating their fantasy-world "struck work area", and MOST IMPORTANTLY, if 1224 had the balls to at least give the ATI MEC a few hours notice that they were going to pull that crap, we could have come up with a way to help. But that wasn't the way they wanted to play. So now you feel justified in running around screaming epithets like a stuck pig. Guess what - NO ONE ELSE IN THE WORLD CARES. Just ask ANY AA, UA, DA, Brown, Purple, etc, pilot. Get over your damned self. You helped make the bed you're in. Now sleep in it.

Potential new hires imagine flying with an angry captain who is upset his union didn't achieve any meaningfull scope to protect their flying.

No heavy jet scope and narrow body scope that expires!
Imagine working for an airline that has a retirement that is 10% less than nearly every carrier in the US. Imagine everytime you go into negotiations management threatens that you fly on the cheap or else your job disappears just like the regionals!
Then management comes on these boards and tries to paint a pretty picture of this great airline! Yep that's ATI!

The strike did happen and ATI crossed! ATI opposed a single carrier to stop the wipsaw. And ATI PILOTS voted yes to an agreement that was much less that even OMNIs TA at the same time. If you're seeking a job do you research. If you think Amazon will save the day, Google and see that they estimate 7 years to build out. Imagine being paid 10% less and 10% less in retirement for 7 years!!! And working 16 days in a row, with less days off than every airline in the world except maybe a few!
It's comical how some get on there and defend the worst acmi contract instead of trying to improve it.

motorclutch
08-11-2018, 06:22 AM
The comment about ďno ATI scabs flying the lineĒ is false. How about we call it ďtwo company strike breakersĒ both now as your VP and CP doing well at ATI. You guys get what you deserve.

gumpscheck
08-11-2018, 06:55 AM
Potential new hires imagine flying with an angry captain who is upset his union didn't achieve any meaningfull scope to protect their flying.

No heavy jet scope and narrow body scope that expires!
Imagine working for an airline that has a retirement that is 10% less than nearly every carrier in the US. Imagine everytime you go into negotiations management threatens that you fly on the cheap or else your job disappears just like the regionals!
Then management comes on these boards and tries to paint a pretty picture of this great airline! Yep that's ATI!

The strike did happen and ATI crossed! ATI opposed a single carrier to stop the wipsaw. And ATI PILOTS voted yes to an agreement that was much less that even OMNIs TA at the same time. If you're seeking a job do you research. If you think Amazon will save the day, Google and see that they estimate 7 years to build out. Imagine being paid 10% less and 10% less in retirement for 7 years!!! And working 16 days in a row, with less days off than every airline in the world except maybe a few!
It's comical how some get on there and defend the worst acmi contract instead of trying to improve it.

Well said!! Plus imagine that if at any time during the lapse of those 7 years if the economy tanks ATSG management will want more concessions from you. So you are already at the bottom and will have to give up more. Not a good place to risk your younger years. Donít go there!

b707guy
08-11-2018, 11:06 AM
The comment about ďno ATI scabs flying the lineĒ is false. How about we call it ďtwo company strike breakersĒ both now as your VP and CP doing well at ATI. You guys get what you deserve.


What's false about it? Which of them is flying the line? Jeez, one isn't even here yet. :rolleyes:


As far as "getting what (you think) we deserve", at least we didn't ASK for it.

b707guy
08-11-2018, 11:08 AM
Potential new hires imagine flying with an angry captain who is upset his union didn't achieve any meaningfull scope to protect their flying.

No heavy jet scope and narrow body scope that expires!
Imagine working for an airline that has a retirement that is 10% less than nearly every carrier in the US. Imagine everytime you go into negotiations management threatens that you fly on the cheap or else your job disappears just like the regionals!
Then management comes on these boards and tries to paint a pretty picture of this great airline! Yep that's ATI!

The strike did happen and ATI crossed! ATI opposed a single carrier to stop the wipsaw. And ATI PILOTS voted yes to an agreement that was much less that even OMNIs TA at the same time. If you're seeking a job do you research. If you think Amazon will save the day, Google and see that they estimate 7 years to build out. Imagine being paid 10% less and 10% less in retirement for 7 years!!! And working 16 days in a row, with less days off than every airline in the world except maybe a few!
It's comical how some get on there and defend the worst acmi contract instead of trying to improve it.


Broken record. Diarrhea left unchecked will do you in. Good luck to you!

nightsky2
10-16-2018, 10:07 AM
F/O application window is open until 29 October. You must be able to get a US Government secret security clearance because of CRAF. Letters of recommendation from ATI pilots really help.

Industry Strnd
10-16-2018, 01:05 PM
F/O application window is open until 29 October. You must be able to get a US Government secret security clearance because of CRAF. Letters of recommendation from ATI pilots really help.
Must be willing to work on your days off for no extra pay if you're below gurantee. Must be willing to accept you're retirement and rates are less than everyone else in the industry flying the 767 and most of all you must accept ALPA has no balls!

Industry Strnd
10-16-2018, 01:17 PM
Tell them about how OMNI got a better deal and these clowns still voted yes to a cba below K4 and Omni. Wow sign me up to work with this crew.

FlyAstarJets
10-16-2018, 05:04 PM
Must be willing to work on your days off for no extra pay if you're below gurantee. Must be willing to accept you're retirement and rates are less than everyone else in the industry flying the 767 and most of all you must accept ALPA has no balls!


Not sure what youíre talking about;

Section 25 H 6
For each Day off during which a Pilot works as a result of awarded Open Time from the volunteer list, he will receive credit towards his line value (i.e., guarantee) for the actual hours flown, plus four hours of pay above guarantee.

midnightshuttle
10-16-2018, 05:52 PM
F/O application window is open until 29 October. You must be able to get a US Government secret security clearance because of CRAF. Letters of recommendation from ATI pilots really help.

I wouldnít worry about that.

We have guys that have quite the record here. Plus whomever told you that is full of crap!!!

goinaround
10-16-2018, 06:34 PM
I wouldnít worry about that.

We have guys that have quite the record here. Plus whomever told you that is full of crap!!!

Secret is the lowest level clearance you can get. The "join the army or go to jail" guys I went to boot camp with had a secret clearance.

FlyAstarJets
10-16-2018, 08:03 PM
I wouldnít worry about that.

We have guys that have quite the record here. Plus whomever told you that is full of crap!!!

This from the HR posting under ďPosition RequirementsĒ issued by ATI Human Resources.

ďMust be able to qualify and pass a US Government secret clearance in the event of CRAF activation.Ē

So.... I ask you. Who exactly are you saying ďis full of crapĒ??

nightsky2
12-06-2018, 06:16 AM
News release by ATSG this morning. ATI is getting 2 additional planes in Q4.

dynap09
12-06-2018, 08:24 AM
Must be willing to work on your days off for no extra pay if you're below gurantee. Must be willing to accept you're retirement and rates are less than everyone else in the industry flying the 767 and most of all you must accept ALPA has no balls!

Someone 4 years into ATI - likely now a captain with four year seniority.

ABX pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $121/hr

ATI pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $197/hr

So we're clear - that's about 63% over ABX - which also flies 767's. That's an insane difference - in the ATI pilots favor.

I'll skip the QOL / work environment items (I know ABX pilots hate the home basing stuff and consider that a waste etc etc).

I think some misinformation that open time flying is not paid.

ATI definitely more willing to deal with mgmt. I think ABX was approached over rates for 777 flying and turned that down, ATSG got OMNI in part for 777 rates and highlighted the possibilities that brings - longer flying / DHL stuff? ABX approached with basically ATI deal and turned it down. ATI said yes. I think initially management thought they'd be investing a lot more into ABX side, and so really always approached them first, but I think those days are long gone now.

Will be interesting to track career progression of folks joining ABX and ATI going forward. Might not be so bad ATI side - some are already earning 63% more than same DOH ABX pilots it looks flying the same equipment. Don't ATI folks get raises soon too?

Jurassic Jet
12-06-2018, 09:47 AM
Don't ATI folks get raises soon too?

Probably so. Also, when does the narrow body scope expire?

ACMItrash
12-06-2018, 11:20 AM
Someone 4 years into ATI - likely now a captain with four year seniority.

ABX pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $121/hr

ATI pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $197/hr

So we're clear - that's about 63% over ABX - which also flies 767's. That's an insane difference - in the ATI pilots favor.

I'll skip the QOL / work environment items (I know ABX pilots hate the home basing stuff and consider that a waste etc etc).

I think some misinformation that open time flying is not paid.

ATI definitely more willing to deal with mgmt. I think ABX was approached over rates for 777 flying and turned that down, ATSG got OMNI in part for 777 rates and highlighted the possibilities that brings - longer flying / DHL stuff? ABX approached with basically ATI deal and turned it down. ATI said yes. I think initially management thought they'd be investing a lot more into ABX side, and so really always approached them first, but I think those days are long gone now.

Will be interesting to track career progression of folks joining ABX and ATI going forward. Might not be so bad ATI side - some are already earning 63% more than same DOH ABX pilots it looks flying the same equipment. Don't ATI folks get raises soon too?

Yep 100% correct nobody should be going to ABX. That same guy at Spirit Jet Blue, or Frontier and countless others would have 10% more retirement than ATI, higher gurantee, min-day and duty rigs, and more days off!

nitefr8dog
12-07-2018, 05:00 AM
Someone 4 years into ATI - likely now a captain with four year seniority.

ABX pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $121/hr

ATI pilot hired 4 years ago - pay around $197/hr

So we're clear - that's about 63% over ABX - which also flies 767's. That's an insane difference - in the ATI pilots favor.

I'll skip the QOL / work environment items (I know ABX pilots hate the home basing stuff and consider that a waste etc etc).

I think some misinformation that open time flying is not paid.

ATI definitely more willing to deal with mgmt. I think ABX was approached over rates for 777 flying and turned that down, ATSG got OMNI in part for 777 rates and highlighted the possibilities that brings - longer flying / DHL stuff? ABX approached with basically ATI deal and turned it down. ATI said yes. I think initially management thought they'd be investing a lot more into ABX side, and so really always approached them first, but I think those days are long gone now.

Will be interesting to track career progression of folks joining ABX and ATI going forward. Might not be so bad ATI side - some are already earning 63% more than same DOH ABX pilots it looks flying the same equipment. Don't ATI folks get raises soon too?
Never bid on 777s...anyhow let's not forget 4% defined contribution less..lower pay on LTD..no scheduling protection/reassignment pay..horible pay on a new contract vs current new ACMI contracts.. ( like 50$ a week pay raise for 12 captains vs ABX). Gee I wonder why ABX did not agree to getting bent over. Plus you get to work for a scab airline and have to tell everone you work for ATI. But....you do get Amazon bag tags..lets not forget that bonus!

dynap09
12-07-2018, 08:14 AM
Never bid on 777s.. ( like 50$ a week pay raise for 12 captains vs ABX).

I stand corrected on 777 flying and discussion with ABX union on that, I thought there had been some interest company side for that.

The most junior captain at ABX has a DOH something like 15 - 20 years ago?

That's the point I'm making. Your career is much better if the airline you fly with is experiencing either growth or retirements even if you don't have highest rates. Compared to ABX, ATI has higher rates (yes, even 12 year captains) and you get to those rates much more quickly.

Someone at ABX with 12 years is probably making around $155 as an FO vs $240 for ATI as a capt per hour for same seniority. Multiply that by XX years, then add in some potential benefits getting on at another co from PIC time..? Do you not see the difference here, the ati career is better - significantly.

Anyways, interesting rumor on the planes. That's what ATSG is missing, I think they expected more growth / placement and are not getting what they thought they would.

nitefr8dog
12-07-2018, 08:23 AM
I stand corrected on 777 flying and discussion with ABX union on that, I thought there had been some interest company side for that.

The most junior captain at ABX has a DOH something like 15 - 20 years ago?


That's the point I'm making. Your career is much better if the airline you fly with is experiencing either growth or retirements even if you don't have highest rates. Compared to ABX, ATI has higher rates (yes, even 12 year captains) and you get to those rates much more quickly.

Someone at ABX with 12 years is probably making around $155 as an FO vs $240 for ATI as a capt per hour for same seniority. Multiply that by XX years, then add in some potential benefits getting on at another co from PIC time..? Do you not see the difference here, the ati career is better - significantly.

Anyways, interesting rumor on the planes. That's what ATSG is missing, I think they expected more growth / placement and are not getting what they thought they would.

Unfortunately the rest of your contract sucks so bad a few bucks does not make up for the rest of it.
Contracts are negotiated for the whole pilot list not just the new hires...no big deal until your colon falls out while climbing the stairs and you are stuck pushing it back in with a toothbrush on a layover instead of 14k a month on disability...

sherpster
12-07-2018, 08:45 AM
ATI: you suck. Doesnt matter what you say. Everyone in aviation pretty much cant stand you guys for selling out.

Jurassic Jet
12-07-2018, 09:03 AM
Unfortunately the rest of your contract sucks so bad a few bucks does not make up for the rest of it.

This. Right. Here.

Make the bag tags out of gold and it still doesn't cut it.

midnightshuttle
12-07-2018, 12:02 PM
UPS is way better why not just go there and make Mo Money!

motorclutch
12-07-2018, 02:11 PM
Be nice guys....the more Hetes *****es work for him, the more my defined benefits plan is paid off. Keep up the good work ATI.

gumpscheck
12-07-2018, 03:19 PM
Unfortunately the rest of your contract sucks so bad a few bucks does not make up for the rest of it.
Contracts are negotiated for the whole pilot list not just the new hires...no big deal until your colon falls out while climbing the stairs and you are stuck pushing it back in with a toothbrush on a layover instead of 14k a month on disability...

Thatís a pretty graphic description of a colon malfunction. LOL!! It sounds painful. And the toothbrush treatment; thatís gotta hurt. I was eating when I read it. I almost choked. ;)

FlyingAnvil
12-08-2018, 09:55 AM
News release by ATSG this morning. ATI is getting 2 additional planes in Q4.

PM sent ... filler

nitefr8dog
12-08-2018, 12:12 PM
Thatís a pretty graphic description of a colon malfunction. LOL!! It sounds painful. And the toothbrush treatment; thatís gotta hurt. I was eating when I read it. I almost choked. ;):D:D......

Lemon Jello
12-08-2018, 01:05 PM
ATI: you suck. Doesnt matter what you say. Everyone in aviation pretty much cant stand you guys for selling out.

False.
The truth is probably something closer to this:Most pilots outside of the CVG/ILN/IBT1224 bubble have never heard of ATI or ABX, much less the ABX "strike".

JohnBurke
12-08-2018, 02:18 PM
ATI: you suck. Doesnt matter what you say. Everyone in aviation pretty much cant stand you guys for selling out.

Mature.

You have the results for that poll? A link, maybe?

nitefr8dog
12-08-2018, 03:34 PM
[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2721641]Mature.

You have the results for that poll? A link, maybe?[/QUOTE

I would bet there have not been scientific surveys done but having said that...being ABX and tied to the parent company ATSG...I have been asked more than once while jumpseating offline if "we (ABX) were the ones that crossed a picket line"...

727CA
12-08-2018, 05:59 PM
The truth is probably something closer to this:Most pilots outside of the CVG/ILN/IBT1224 bubble have never heard of ATI or ABX, much less the ABX "strike".
The ATI pilots haven't head of this "strike" either LOL.
ATI has 26 aircraft, and getting two more this month. ABX has 6. ABX who?

nitefr8dog
12-08-2018, 06:05 PM
The ATI pilots haven't head of this "strike" either LOL.
ATI has 26 aircraft, and getting two more this month. ABX has 6. ABX who?
Close....I think it's 29 total. 6 for Amazon. But to your point....yes nobody says ATI who? Everyone knows it's the scab airline.

727CA
12-08-2018, 06:20 PM
Everyone knows it's the scab airline.

I really don't think anybody cares. Honestly. When you're begging for jumpseats on airlines that employ 15,000 pilots with their own issues, the last thing they give two craps about is some ACMI airline that has less than 300 pilots. Nobody cares.

nitefr8dog
12-08-2018, 06:27 PM
I really don't think anybody cares. Honestly. When you're begging for jumpseats on airlines that employ 15,000 pilots with their own issues, the last thing they give two craps about is some ACMI airline that has less than 300 pilots. Nobody cares.
Except about scabs...

thesandbox
12-09-2018, 07:33 AM
I really don't think anybody cares. Honestly. When you're begging for jumpseats on airlines that employ 15,000 pilots with their own issues, the last thing they give two craps about is some ACMI airline that has less than 300 pilots. Nobody cares.


Yeah....that's why many of those 15,000 carry and check a scab list from 30 years ago everytime. No they don't care at all..... :rolleyes:

nitefr8dog
12-09-2018, 08:30 AM
Yeah....that's why many of those 15,000 carry and check a scab list from 30 years ago everytime. No they don't care at all..... :rolleyes:
Used to have a base CP that would carry a scab list and run allover the airport in Chicago cking jumpseaters. He got a big charge out of throwing scabs off .....

CallmeJB
12-09-2018, 08:33 AM
[QUOTE=JohnBurke;2721641]Mature.

You have the results for that poll? A link, maybe?[/QUOTE

I would bet there have not been scientific surveys done but having said that...being ABX and tied to the parent company ATSG...I have been asked more than once while jumpseating offline if "we (ABX) were the ones that crossed a picket line"...

What's jumpseating offline?

I kid... I kid....

maxjet
12-09-2018, 09:04 AM
Yep 100% correct nobody should be going to ABX. That same guy at Spirit Jet Blue, or Frontier and countless others would have 10% more retirement than ATI, higher gurantee, min-day and duty rigs, and more days off!

Why this insistence of retirement money over money today with a lower retirement contribution? I have taken my money and contribute the max to the 401 every year. Once max is met the rest goes into other revenue bearing vehicles. Market is down? My properties keep me stable. Diversity in retirement income is where it is. My retirement is set and I am debt free. Money I make now is banked for a rainy day or, if enough for a huge house on the lake paid for in cash when I retire.

motorclutch
12-09-2018, 09:23 AM
Spoken like a true Hete ďA wipeĒ. My defined benefit annuity pays for it all. Will never touch 401 until required by law. But you will never know because ATI pilot group sold out so cheap. The robber barons must love you.

vroll1800
12-09-2018, 09:44 AM
MC, mj is K4, not ATI. Still his response to A-trash was flawed in that he (A-trash) wasn't fixating on retirement, but merely highlighting one aspect in conjunction with work rules that would enable a better QOL.

If one has a better retirement plan, and better work rules, one doesn't have to work extra days for extra $$ to make up for retirement shortfall, plus have more time off to enjoy the things that the greater disposable income confers on you. Sounds like a good recipe for good QOL. :cool:
Some people fixate on pay rates too much.

maxjet
12-09-2018, 10:31 AM
MC, mj is K4, not ATI. Still his response to A-trash was flawed in that he (A-trash) wasn't fixating on retirement, but merely highlighting one aspect in conjunction with work rules that would enable a better QOL.

If one has a better retirement plan, and better work rules, one doesn't have to work extra days for extra $$ to make up for retirement shortfall, plus have more time off to enjoy the things that the greater disposable income confers on you. Sounds like a good recipe for good QOL. :cool:
Some people fixate on pay rates too much.

Thank you for your response. I agree with you completely. It is a total package one should look at.

nitefr8dog
12-09-2018, 12:51 PM
[QUOTE=nitefr8dog;2721673]

What's jumpseating offline?

I kid... I kid....
The opposite of online...as in not going to work. Visiting famly..vacation etc. The company flying I do requires the company to airline me into and out off position as a rule on my 1st and last work days.

I kinda thought that would trip up a few slow ones ...

727CA
12-09-2018, 08:01 PM
Yeah....that's why many of those 15,000 carry and check a scab list from 30 years ago everytime. No they don't care at all..... :rolleyes:
Majority of people on the scab list are either retired or dead. If ATI pilots are all scabs, why aren't ATI pilots on the list LOL. Nobody recognized the "strike" because nobody cares.

nitefr8dog
12-10-2018, 06:22 AM
Majority of people on the scab list are either retired or dead. If ATI pilots are all scabs, why aren't ATI pilots on the list LOL. Nobody recognized the "strike" because nobody cares.
Who says they are not???

CA Deplorable
12-11-2018, 03:05 AM
The ďNobody CaresĒ mindset is what got us here in the first place and speaks volumes

BoomerSooner
12-11-2018, 02:23 PM
If Amazon ever acquires their own Certificate, it will be interesting to see who doesn't make the cut for interviews.

zerozero
12-11-2018, 03:17 PM
If Amazon ever acquires their own Certificate, it will be interesting to see who doesn't make the cut for interviews.

Who TF wants to be an Amazon employee?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/363/152/e15.png

dynap09
12-12-2018, 07:47 AM
Thank goodness a UPS driver would never do this. Oh wait...

Can you imagine how many times this headline would run if every time a UPS driver peed in a bottle it was a headline news?

That said, def a bad situation if your warehouse job requires it!

nightsky2
02-07-2019, 07:52 AM
F/O application window will open tomorrow through 18 February. Been here over a year now. Still love it.

ACMItrash
02-08-2019, 02:27 AM
F/O application window will open tomorrow through 18 February. Been here over a year now. Still love it.

Can you state your retirement compared to Frontier? Frontier has 100 jets on delivery guranteed. Can you state how many ATI has guaranteed delivery of without competing with multiple other airlines for growth?

Does ATI scope expire?

nightsky2
02-08-2019, 05:44 PM
Can you state your retirement compared to Frontier? Frontier has 100 jets on delivery guranteed. Can you state how many ATI has guaranteed delivery of without competing with multiple other airlines for growth?

Does ATI scope expire?

Sounds like this is not the line of work you are cut out for. Hopefully you'll find your dream job soon.

captjns
02-08-2019, 06:10 PM
Can you state your retirement compared to Frontier? Frontier has 100 jets on delivery guranteed. Can you state how many ATI has guaranteed delivery of without competing with multiple other airlines for growth?

Does ATI scope expire?

Toddle off to Frontier, that is if they offer you employment. After all itís not nice goad people knowing the current state of affairs of ATI... just saying.

nightsky2
04-22-2019, 05:15 PM
ATI application window is open 22 April - 3 May. If you are interested in learning about working here I suggest you read the beginning of this thread where I explained what I think about this place. Training is excellent. Work group is professional. I stand by my previous statements. Contrary to some heated counter-posts, Iím just a regular line pilot.

No Land 3
04-22-2019, 05:20 PM
ATI application window is open 22 April - 3 May. If you are interested in learning about working here I suggest you read the beginning of this thread where I explained what I think about this place. Training is excellent. Work group is professional. I stand by my previous statements. Contrary to some heated counter-posts, Iím just a regular line pilot.
It's a shame that regional level political bickering is finding its way into the ACMI world

Reactivity
04-22-2019, 07:27 PM
Work group is professional.

...except for a couple of captains who will refuse a jumpseat request based on which airline employs the prospective jumpseater. Other than that, sure.

baldwin
04-23-2019, 12:06 AM
...except for a couple of captains who will refuse a jumpseat request based on which airline employs the prospective jumpseater. Other than that, sure.

wow, it took over 2 hours this time for the typical abx pi$$ing contest retort to show up on the ati thread. itís usually quicker than that... you guys have lost a step.

dogo
04-23-2019, 04:27 AM
I havenít....Ēscabs be scabsĒ

Reactivity
04-23-2019, 11:30 AM
wow, it took over 2 hours this time for the typical abx pi$$ing contest retort to show up on the ati thread. itís usually quicker than that... you guys have lost a step.

Oh, sorry - I didn't know it was a contest. If I had known that, I would have tried harder.

Av8r75
04-24-2019, 07:41 AM
ATI application window is open 22 April - 3 May. If you are interested in learning about working here I suggest you read the beginning of this thread where I explained what I think about this place. Training is excellent. Work group is professional. I stand by my previous statements. Contrary to some heated counter-posts, Iím just a regular line pilot.

Thanks NightSky! Put my app in on the 22nd when the window opened. Hoping to get a call for an interview soon.

<Begin Rant>
Don't mind the haters out there, some people are never happy, no matter what they have. It has always amazed me when people go to work for a company, knowing prior to doing so what the pay rates are, the schedules etc., and then complain after the fact. Thats like buying a car that you know has engine problems and then taking it back to the dealer a week later, demanding they fix the problems!

It all comes back to coveting what others have. I just read an article sent out in APC's email updates. It was discussing Amazon and how they are to blame for low pilot pay and working conditions in the ACMI industry. While Amazon may drive what individual contracts pay, it is the individual operators (and Unions) that determine pay rates and working conditions, not Amazon. Now I am not saying that I am an Amazon kool aid drinker, but people need to realize that, if you want UPS or Fedex money, then do everything you can to go work for those companies. Comparing ACMI flying to Fedex and UPS is comparing apples to oranges.

If safety is an issue, then by all means, pilots should always speak up about those issues, but comparing pay rates and claiming "my company pays 33% less that company x" is just silly. We all know pay rates before we take any of these jobs. If we network beforehand we can also learn about the schedules and other working conditions as well, before we even interview.
<Rant Over>

Sorry for the rant, just get tired of the complaining, unless its constructive and for good reason (such as safety). I am sure this post will incite more hating. :cool:

CardboardCutout
04-24-2019, 10:46 AM
I am sure this post will incite more hating. :cool:

I will simply observe that posting about how totally ok a place is (in spite of the "haters") when you don't work there is about as useful as posting about how much a place sucks when you don't work there.

Av8r75
04-24-2019, 10:56 AM
I will simply observe that posting about how totally ok a place is (in spite of the "haters") when you don't work there is about as useful as posting about how much a place sucks when you don't work there.

You are correct and that was not my point. You are right that I can't possibly know exactly what it's like to work for ATI, but I can reach out to those that do and get an idea. My point is that none of us go into a new position completely blind. We may accept certain things because the good outweighs the bad for us personally. If not, we should never take the job in the first place. If one starts a new job and a few years later absolutely hates what they do, maybe they should move on to a better opportunity for them. We all have different desires and views on what's best for us and our situation.

The truth is that the perfect job does not and will never exist. Not saying we should not try to improve things, but we also need to keep our expectations in check in this imperfect world. When I speak of haters, I am referring to individuals who have nothing but negative to say, not those who have constructive things to bring to the table.

woog315
04-24-2019, 11:49 AM
What you need to understand is not how good/bad of a job ATI is, but what function ATI is serving in the ATSG "family". Its a whipsaw airline with union leadership that is wholly aligned with management. Anything good at ATI is a result of undermining something better at ABX, and if the ALPA leadership had any stones at all we would be working together to get what the group as a whole (ABX and ATI, and now Omni) deserves instead of having one group undermine everything. The contract at ATI is the worst new contract in ACMI. Its not the worst contract in the world, but its designed to perfectly undercut ABX and the ATI group jumped all over it instead of being patient and forcing ATSG's hand. Its a race to the bottom contract, period.

ATI was a bottom of the barrel airline that was essentially bankrupt and was scooped up by ATSG to create a whipsaw. Maybe that will change one day, maybe not, but for now when you go work at ATI you are working to make sure ACMI doesn't improve but instead continues to scrape the bottom. If that's how you like things, fine.

Its a fast growing airline and the ATSG/Amazon contracts represent one of the greatest opportunities theres ever been in the ACMI world. I don't begrudge anyone for going there, but you should understand why people turn their nose at ATI. It's not just anger for the sake of anger- it's disappointment that we don't hold ourselves to a higher standard.

dogo
04-24-2019, 11:59 AM
You never mentioned that scabs work at ATI. VP&CP.

Av8r75
04-24-2019, 12:27 PM
Finally...a reasoned response, instead of just bitterness and anger. I completely understand what you have communicated and I also understand that there are always two sides to every situation.

What appears to be treason to one group doesn't to the other. I have spoken with pilots who see both sides of this issue with ABX/ATI. Where I currently work, there was some contention over the last TA/LOA, as there most inevitably always will be. As I said in my last post, no job is perfect, thereby...no company, no contract, no union and no person is perfect either. We all have different motivations and you will never get everyone to swing in the exact same direction.

This is why I do not like all the bitter bickering and non-constructive comments. This will always be an issue in this industry. It is this way even at the legacy carriers, just different issues. Where I currently work, I have flown with guys who gripe about the company not putting us downtown on a long overnight, even though the company gives us a rental car when on such overnights, and then once we get a downtown hotel, this same guy will complain it is not a good hotel! I use this superficial example because this is the world we live in and it will not change anytime soon.

The fact that I have breath every day is a blessing from God, so I will be content with what He chooses to bless me with. Sometimes I may have to eat crow and that's ok. As long as I can provide for my family, enjoy what I do and most importantly contribute in some way to making things better, I feel that makes life worth living. Bottom line is a lot of people live under the delusion that we can fix every problem in this industry, if we just all band together and scream it from the rooftops...the problem is...we are all human and you will never get everyone to agree with each other completely. Yes it does stink, but its kind of a catch 22 in this business.

With pilots being in demand right now, our choices are much more varied that they were just 5 years ago. If someone is not happy with their current employer, then opportunities abound to find a better place...but alas...you may find that place comes with a whole new set of problems as well.

Migz74
04-25-2019, 06:08 AM
Are there trips that start and end on the west coast? If so whatís the seniority to hold those trips? Also what is a typical pairing and schedule a new hire will likely get and whatís the average reserve time?

I apologize if these questions have been answered, I did a forum search but couldnít find much info.

Cheers!

FlyAstarJets
04-25-2019, 08:10 AM
Are there trips that start and end on the west coast? If so whatís the seniority to hold those trips? Also what is a typical pairing and schedule a new hire will likely get and whatís the average reserve time?

I apologize if these questions have been answered, I did a forum search but couldnít find much info.

Cheers!

Yes we do.

SEA, ONT and SMF supporting Amazon. For DHL we operate SEA-LAX. We also operate a 757combi off the west coast for Pacific ops.
BUT, as with anything in aviation, things (stations and routes) can change in a heartbeat.

But here at ATI, being Home Based, we donít have to worry about that. Company is 100% responsible for your travel and lodging getting you into position to start your trip and to get you home at the end of your trip.

Hope this helps,
FAJ

Kingairguy08
04-25-2019, 11:41 AM
Hello everyone,

I've read this thread from start to finish and wasn't able to find an answer. Can anyone please shed some light on maybe what to expect in an interview or possibly what training is like? I have an interview on the 16th. My background is all corporate with 6100TT, with 5500 as PIC.

Thanks!

Reactivity
04-25-2019, 01:28 PM
Don't mind the haters out there, some people are never happy, no matter what they have. It has always amazed me when people go to work for a company, knowing prior to doing so what the pay rates are, the schedules etc., and then complain after the fact.

It all comes back to coveting what others have. [I]f you want UPS or Fedex money, then do everything you can to go work for those companies. Comparing ACMI flying to Fedex and UPS is comparing apples to oranges.


I think your perspective needs a history lesson. Learn where ABX came from. Learn about how ABX furloughed pilots and refused to recall them even though ABX was ridiculously understaffed when the Amazon flying was ramping up, instead waiting until their recall rights expired so that they could hire new FOs at first year pay ($42,000) instead. There are still a number of former ABX pilots at ATI who will be happy to fill you in. They're enjoying a big check resulting from a grievance filed against the company after the furlough/recall hose job.

Far from coveting what others have, ABX pilots would be happy with what they had before giving up 31 days a year and 40% pay cuts to save the company from insolvency. As it is, they're only asking for what the current leader in the ACMI segment is getting now that ATSG is flying high. That has been complicated by their brethren at ATI who accepted a substandard deal. Now, more than four years into negotiations, ABX management is trying to push that same deal on us. They first tried threats and intimidation, but have resorted to simply not negotiating, preferring instead to wait until the NMB finally gets tired of their shenanigans, which could take years. And it has been stated by the CEO of ABX, who is also the CEO of ATSG, that there will be no growth at ABX until he gets the contract he wants, which would include a no-strike clause like our friends at ATI have. So new hires sit on reserve for two years or more, and FOs who have been with the company for more than twenty years wait for one of the dozen or so upgrades planned for this year after more than two years without a single upgrade.

Most of the "haters" you're hearing from are the old-timers who had it good and are now slogging away toward retirement, resisting every effort of management to beat them into submission, and hoping for any improvement at all. Some have left for greener pastures, with a couple of senior captains heading off to UPS recently. But not everybody is able to get that kind of a deal, and it's not easy to do when you've been with a company for 30 years.

Behind the 45 or so most senior FOs are the new hires from mid-to-late 2016 - numbering around 30 - who had every expectation that there would be a contract and an upgrade in their immediate future. Their numbers were significantly larger than 30, but they have been leaving quickly as better opportunities present themselves.

The number of new hires who came into the current situation of no growth and stagnant negotiations on a 10-year-old contract is very small - less than 30 - and to my knowledge, those are not among the "haters" you're hearing from. Most of them don't care about ABX as a career destination. They're just stopping at ABX on their way to somewhere else.

Av8r75
04-25-2019, 02:16 PM
My perspective needs a history lesson...? Thanks for the history lesson and as I have already said in previous posts, I am not disputing that things go awry often in this world. As a matter of fact, that is my primary point! We do not live in a perfect world and never will this side of eternity. My other point is that most people will always find things they are unhappy with, but never count that with which they have been blessed. Not that this will matter, but, do you have a reliable job? Can you provide for your family? Do you still get some joy out of what you do? If you are answering NO to more than one of those questions, then move on. If not, 2 out of 3 is not bad in this world. Yes moving on is always easier said than done, but unless you live in a 3rd world country, opportunities abound here in the west.

Regardless of what management at any of these places do, we have to stop acting like this whole solidarity thing actually works perfectly 100% of the time. I am not disputing that different pilot groups have sometimes looked out for themselves, this indeed happens and it happens in every part of this industry that is unionized. My point is, there are obviously people at ATI that are happy there, because I have spoken to them personally. Obviously, your perspective is....well of course they are happy, they stole our cheese! This is what I mean by coveting...

This may not be your worldview, and that is ok. All the junk aside, I just get sick of disgruntled comments on a board that are not constructive. The OP posted a thoughtful post on his experiences so far at ATI and was almost immediately called MANAGEMENT! How childish is that?? There will always be unhappy people at work and there will be those of us who do our job with a smile on our face. This does not mean we are shills for management or kool aid drinkers!

You may be 100% correct about the issue between ABX and ATI pilots, but that does not change my perspective on how I choose to live life, which I do by:

1) Not taking myself too seriously
2) Loving God, my family and my neighbor (including friends/coworkers)
3) Work without grumbling, even when I feel under appreciated
4) Do my best to make a place better than when I found it (w/o forgetting #1)
5) Try every day to find the good and not focus on the bad

#3 is very difficult, but if I view work as done unto God, then it gets easier to not grumble (goes along with recognizing I am blessed, even when it doesn't feel like it).

#4 is also hard to do because making a place better may not always benefit you directly in the immediate, primarily due to change taking some time, sometimes a LONG time.

Didn't mean to get all sentimental, but hopefully we understand each other a little more. Please know that I never made presumptions about what went down between ABX and ATI, just that I feel these things can be handled more constructively, probably with better results. Can we get back to the business of helping people with constructive insight, rather than wasting time on grudges and "he said, she said"?

woog315
04-25-2019, 03:07 PM
You're exactly the kind of softassed dunce ATI wants- You don't understand why you're getting paid what you are getting paid. You're stomping all over the coattails of others but think you're just 'being positive'. If you want to be constructive, don't go work at ATI. You are absolutely right- nothing is perfect and nothing ever will be perfect, but ATI is a stain on the industry and you're not helping anything by signing up there. If you do go there, please be vocal about change- its badly needed.

Av8r75
04-25-2019, 03:21 PM
Such bitterness...hope you have some good things in your life. God Bless!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

nightsky2
04-25-2019, 04:20 PM
Hello everyone,

I've read this thread from start to finish and wasn't able to find an answer. Can anyone please shed some light on maybe what to expect in an interview or possibly what training is like? I have an interview on the 16th. My background is all corporate with 6100TT, with 5500 as PIC.

Thanks!
Interview is very straight forward. Normally someone from HR and DO. The fact that you have been invited means youíve crossed the most difficult hurdle. Now itís your job to lose. They will ask about a few things revealed in your history and some what-ifís about how you would handle hypothetical situations. Less experienced candidates may be queried about technical stuff. In your case they may ask you some questions about part 121 rest and duty. They are looking for people who can get along with each other for extended periods of time, but not duplicates. Lunch probably will be catered. Half your group will do the interview first while the other half does the sim eval. Sim will either be in the DC-8 or 767-200. Donít sweat the sim, but donít slouch either. They are looking for trainability. You will have to find your own transportation and lodging. I recommend getting there the day before. On time is late! Be early so you can relax. I posted a less detailed response under, ďATI hiring through 2019Ē #269. Hope this helps. Good Luck!!

asherpa
04-25-2019, 06:33 PM
Interview is very straight forward. Normally someone from HR and DO. The fact that you have been invited means you’ve crossed the most difficult hurdle. Now it’s your job to lose. They will ask about a few things revealed in your history and some what-if’s about how you would handle hypothetical situations. Less experienced candidates may be queried about technical stuff. In your case they may ask you some questions about part 121 rest and duty. They are looking for people who can get along with each other for extended periods of time, but not duplicates. Lunch probably will be catered. Half your group will do the interview first while the other half does the sim eval. Sim will either be in the DC-8 or 767-200. Don’t sweat the sim, but don’t slouch either. They are looking for trainability. You will have to find your own transportation and lodging. I recommend getting there the day before. On time is late! Be early so you can relax. I posted a less detailed response under, “ATI hiring through 2019” #269. Hope this helps. Good Luck!!
Thank you for the information... I did apply on Monday waiting to hear.....hope they will call me...

nitefr8dog
04-25-2019, 06:48 PM
My perspective needs a history lesson...? Thanks for the history lesson and as I have already said in previous posts, I am not disputing that things go awry often in this world. As a matter of fact, that is my primary point! We do not live in a perfect world and never will this side of eternity. My other point is that most people will always find things they are unhappy with, but never count that with which they have been blessed. Not that this will matter, but, do you have a reliable job? Can you provide for your family? Do you still get some joy out of what you do? If you are answering NO to more than one of those questions, then move on. If not, 2 out of 3 is not bad in this world. Yes moving on is always easier said than done, but unless you live in a 3rd world country, opportunities abound here in the west.

Regardless of what management at any of these places do, we have to stop acting like this whole solidarity thing actually works perfectly 100% of the time. I am not disputing that different pilot groups have sometimes looked out for themselves, this indeed happens and it happens in every part of this industry that is unionized. My point is, there are obviously people at ATI that are happy there, because I have spoken to them personally. Obviously, your perspective is....well of course they are happy, they stole our cheese! This is what I mean by coveting...

This may not be your worldview, and that is ok. All the junk aside, I just get sick of disgruntled comments on a board that are not constructive. The OP posted a thoughtful post on his experiences so far at ATI and was almost immediately called MANAGEMENT! How childish is that?? There will always be unhappy people at work and there will be those of us who do our job with a smile on our face. This does not mean we are shills for management or kool aid drinkers!

You may be 100% correct about the issue between ABX and ATI pilots, but that does not change my perspective on how I choose to live life, which I do by:

1) Not taking myself too seriously
2) Loving God, my family and my neighbor (including friends/coworkers)
3) Work without grumbling, even when I feel under appreciated
4) Do my best to make a place better than when I found it (w/o forgetting #1)
5) Try every day to find the good and not focus on the bad

#3 is very difficult, but if I view work as done unto God, then it gets easier to not grumble (goes along with recognizing I am blessed, even when it doesn't feel like it).

#4 is also hard to do because making a place better may not always benefit you directly in the immediate, primarily due to change taking some time, sometimes a LONG time.

Didn't mean to get all sentimental, but hopefully we understand each other a little more. Please know that I never made presumptions about what went down between ABX and ATI, just that I feel these things can be handled more constructively, probably with better results. Can we get back to the business of helping people with constructive insight, rather than wasting time on grudges and "he said, she said"?
I just threw up a little bit.....

Av8r75
04-25-2019, 07:40 PM
Thanks for the interview gouge nightsky. Appreciate it very much and hope to be invited for an interview soon.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

dogo
04-26-2019, 07:42 AM
Perfect scab material. When you are interviewing with management tell them you respect the VP and CP decision to cross a picket line. You will fit in well, hope you get hired.

CardboardCutout
04-26-2019, 11:46 AM
Evidently the Sky Bully is strongly anti-Labor.

Bungalow
04-27-2019, 05:57 AM
Perfect scab material. When you are interviewing with management tell them you respect the VP and CP decision to cross a picket line. You will fit in well, hope you get hired.

Dude,
Do you ever stop your apoplectic rage?
That stuffís bad for your health. Gonna loose your medical.

dogo
04-27-2019, 06:40 AM
Did I touch a nerve snowflake? You must have been a line crosser. Give my regards to your CP and VP. Rage on!

NeverHome
04-28-2019, 07:13 AM
Did I touch a nerve snowflake? You must have been a line crosser. Give my regards to your CP and VP. Rage on!

I just looked on the ALPA master scab list. I do not see the names of the individuals you have stated. Is there another list I am missing?

Not to get into this fight, but unless someone has crossed an actual picket to work designated struck materials, then they are not a Scab.

Bungalow
04-28-2019, 11:48 AM
Did I touch a nerve snowflake? You must have been a line crosser. Give my regards to your CP and VP. Rage on!

Nah you didnít touch anything. Just your constant crying and misery is getting old.
And if by ďline crosserĒ youíre referring to the legendarily successful, pseudo strike at ABX, wrong again. I wasnít anywhere near that sorry place.

727CA
04-28-2019, 01:51 PM
I just looked on the ALPA master scab list. I do not see the names of the individuals you have stated. Is there another list I am missing?

And you won't see any of those names on the master list.
Not a real strike, only a tantrum.

nitefr8dog
04-28-2019, 04:51 PM
And you won't see any of those names on the master list.
Not a real strike, only a tantrum.
Well....not really. The pilots were able to stop all items in violation of the contract which caused the strike and in the end were paid hugh settlements. Which was the sole purpose of the strike....that and to show JH we would not stand by while he tried to move aircraft on ABX certificate to ATI ( which he wanted) without repercussions. Although there is nothing in ATI's contract preventing moving ATI aircraft to ABX. And ATI was the only US carrier which crossed the strike line and moved freight. Check your facts before posting nonsense.

NeverHome
04-29-2019, 02:29 AM
Well....not really. The pilots were able to stop all items in violation of the contract which caused the strike and in the end were paid hugh settlements. Which was the sole purpose of the strike....that and to show JH we would not stand by while he tried to move aircraft on ABX certificate to ATI ( which he wanted) without repercussions. Although there is nothing in ATI's contract preventing moving ATI aircraft to ABX. And ATI was the only US carrier which crossed the strike line and moved freight. Check your facts before posting nonsense.

Well here is the thing, I am checking facts. Iím doing my homework. I hear what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from. I really do. At the same time however, what facts I have uncovered, do not support your claim. Feel free to respond point by point:

I do not find any validation for a legal release to strike. A federal judge however ruled that the strike was illegal.

I do not find anything that suggests ALPA recognized the strike (I know, ABX is teamsters. But ATI is not, think about that for a second).

I do not see evidence where any other carrier, teamsters or otherwise participated in the strike. Your claim is ATI is the only carrier to cross the strike line. Did Atlas strike?

Again I do understand the hard feelings, but everything I can see suggests they should be directed at ABX union leadership and ABX management.

HvypurplePylot
04-29-2019, 02:51 AM
Well here is the thing, I am checking facts. Iím doing my homework. I hear what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from. I really do. At the same time however, what facts I have uncovered, do not support your claim. Feel free to respond point by point:

I do not find any validation for a legal release to strike. A federal judge however ruled that the strike was illegal.

I do not find anything that suggests ALPA recognized the strike (I know, ABX is teamsters. But ATI is not, think about that for a second).

I do not see evidence where any other carrier, teamsters or otherwise participated in the strike. Your claim is ATI is the only carrier to cross the strike line. Did Atlas strike?

Again I do understand the hard feelings, but everything I can see suggests they should be directed at ABX union leadership and ABX management.

Kalitta, Atlas, and southern held the line. Pilot groups that, you know, have a backbone.

nitefr8dog
04-29-2019, 09:45 AM
[QUOTE=NeverHome;2810733]

Well here is the thing, I am checking facts. Iím doing my homework. I hear what you are saying, and I understand where you are coming from. I really do. At the same time however, what facts I have uncovered, do not support your claim. Feel free to respond point by point:




And....the same Federal Judge ordered ABX management to cease immediately 2 of the 3 items and reach a resolution pertaining to the 3rd item. The 3rd item resulted in the cash payout to the pilot group..again ATI was the carrier that decided to cross the line. ABX pilots negotiated a contract that says the pilots are not required to cross anyone's strike line regardless of who represents them. As an example if ATI would ever strike ( we know they are sheep and wouldn't) but that said ABX would not cross their strike line. And yes Atlas, Southern and K4 honored the strike.

t207
04-29-2019, 11:12 AM
Kaletta Charters 2 honored the strike as well.

NeverHome
04-29-2019, 12:49 PM
Kalitta, Atlas, and southern held the line. Pilot groups that, you know, have a backbone.

Ok, define held the line? Iíve been googling and have failed to see anything that states that on the dates of the ABX strike, these companies ceased operations. In other words, they kept flying. If I am mistaken, please provide a reference. Truthfully I am doing my homework and trying to understand this dynamic.

gumpscheck
04-29-2019, 12:55 PM
[QUOTE=NeverHome;2810733] A federal judge however ruled that the strike was illegal.

A Federal Judge ruled that the ďMajor DisputeĒ could be resolved using the mechanism available within the CBA. He never said anything about the strike being illegal. The ATI MEC said that and ALPA National supported it. Plus the Federal Judge ordered ATSG to pay Local 1224 close to $500K.

nitefr8dog
04-29-2019, 05:53 PM
Kaletta Charters 2 honored the strike as well.
Thanks guys....

nitefr8dog
04-29-2019, 05:57 PM
Ok, define held the line? Iíve been googling and have failed to see anything that states that on the dates of the ABX strike, these companies ceased operations. In other words, they kept flying. If I am mistaken, please provide a reference. Truthfully I am doing my homework and trying to understand this dynamic.
In other words...they did not keep flying. If you were on property and walking the strike line supporting the pilots who were fighting for all union pilots at all carriers....you would have seen the ramp full of aircraft not moving. Except 4 ATI flights that is.

nitefr8dog
04-29-2019, 06:04 PM
Ok, define held the line? Iíve been googling and have failed to see anything that states that on the dates of the ABX strike, these companies ceased operations. In other words, they kept flying. If I am mistaken, please provide a reference. Truthfully I am doing my homework and trying to understand this dynamic.

https://aircargoworld.com/allposts/abx-pilots-strike-over-alleged-contract-violations-by-abx-management/
That was tough...it took thirty seconds to Google how many DHL flights were canceled when ABX pilots struck. The article says about 75. ABX was flying 11 DHL flights at that time. You do the math. Use a computer much?

woog315
04-29-2019, 08:18 PM
Amazing how people try to rewrite history.... Whether or not the strike was a good idea, it's pretty incredible to see people claiming the ABX strike wasn't supported by other carriers. The only freight that moved in ILN or CVG was moved by ATI- even the Canadians (who really had no obligation other than decency and solidarity) went back to the hotel. ATI new hires were showing up at the ABX base of operations during the strike and asking how to help and avoid crossing the line. Some of you guys decided to not question your 'leadership' and adopt some nonsense line about illegal strikes or whatever to justify your cowardice. ATI is a stain, sorry.

tonsterboy5
04-29-2019, 08:50 PM
Maybe I am lost, Iím new to this whole union thing so someone can maybe explain.
Abx pilots were striking with there only customer being DHL
Pilots from other airlines stopped flying all together to not cross a line and move dhl freight.
My confusion comes from the fact that who cares if the other pilots choose to fly their flights, ABX was completing zero flights therefore DHL shouldnít be paying them which will force them to the negotiating table. The grudge is with ABX and not DHL. If the goal is to not move the freight at all canít the union just identify which routes were to be served by ABX and put out to not fly those routes.. For instance if the cvg-Mia route is always abx if you work for another career refuse to move that freight.
The reason I say this is if letís say American Airlines pilots decide to strike, United, Delta, frontier, spirit, Southwest will still be flying and the passengers(instead of freight)can still choose to get to their destination. American Airlines revenue drops until they decide to come back to the table. Itís the same thing except DHL chooses to pay another airline to move their stuff.
Bottom line is the airline where the pilots are striking is getting zero revenue which is the goal.

I would consider them scabs if letís say abx decides to pay atlas to fly their routes while on strike. Basically a scab is one who is hired by management to move the plane or the stuff in the plane. If the customer chooses to move to another company it doesnít make the other company a scab company. Itís where the money comes from that makes the difference. Now I know that ati/abx are owned by the same company so this would make them scabs as the money comes from the same pot but at the time of the strike they were separate.

nitefr8dog
04-29-2019, 10:39 PM
Maybe I am lost, Iím new to this whole union thing so someone can maybe explain.
Abx pilots were striking with there only customer being DHL
Pilots from other airlines stopped flying all together to not cross a line and move dhl freight.
My confusion comes from the fact that who cares if the other pilots choose to fly their flights, ABX was completing zero flights therefore DHL shouldnít be paying them which will force them to the negotiating table. The grudge is with ABX and not DHL. If the goal is to not move the freight at all canít the union just identify which routes were to be served by ABX and put out to not fly those routes.. For instance if the cvg-Mia route is always abx if you work for another career refuse to move that freight.
The reason I say this is if letís say American Airlines pilots decide to strike, United, Delta, frontier, spirit, Southwest will still be flying and the passengers(instead of freight)can still choose to get to their destination. American Airlines revenue drops until they decide to come back to the table. Itís the same thing except DHL chooses to pay another airline to move their stuff.
Bottom line is the airline where the pilots are striking is getting zero revenue which is the goal.

I would consider them scabs if letís say abx decides to pay atlas to fly their routes while on strike. Basically a scab is one who is hired by management to move the plane or the stuff in the plane. If the customer chooses to move to another company it doesnít make the other company a scab company. Itís where the money comes from that makes the difference. Now I know that ati/abx are owned by the same company so this would make them scabs as the money comes from the same pot but at the time of the strike they were separate.
I think you opening statement says it all....you are lost. First at the time ABX was moving cargo for DHL, Amazon, SAS , Aeromexico, and the US Government. Still is! With each of those companies having multiple customers. So it's much more involved than not flying DHL's freight. You say it's the same thing except DHL chooses to pay another airline to move its stuff! Except if the other airlines pilots honor the strike and refuse...which happened except for ATI. So the strike was successful in that a court was required to get the crews back in the cockpit and the items in dispute were resolved. But the reason was much deeper than the disputed items....its about letting the company know they will be required to follow the contract in all areas. If the other carriers had better Scope, displacement language, reassignment pay, fantastic disability and insurance they too would be interested in letting their company know that it will not be taken without a fight. ATI for one signed a contract without any of these. And now ATSG has a third carrier to mix in the whipsaw cycle. Please do some research before you decide to post about something you have no idea about. Also it was you who brought up scabs.

nightsky2
04-30-2019, 03:49 AM
Some of you have really driven this thread into the weeds! Why donít you go start your own pro-ABX thread? I wasnít here during the strike and neither were a lot of current ATI pilots. From what I have been told, the only flights flown by ATI pilots during the strike were ATI flights on ATI routes with ATI freight. ATI is growing and is a great place to work. Nuff said.

nightsky2
04-30-2019, 04:46 AM
New class of 16 just started yesterday!:D

thesandbox
04-30-2019, 04:52 AM
Some of you have really driven this thread into the weeds! Why donít you go start your own pro-ABX thread? I wasnít here during the strike and neither were a lot of current ATI pilots. From what I have been told, the only flights flown by ATI pilots during the strike were ATI flights on ATI routes with ATI freight. ATI is growing and is a great place to work. Nuff said.


ATI flies their own cargo out of CVG? hmmmm...I thought it was DHL or Amazon freight. How much are you guys paying for ramp space and renting of the facilities there????

point432
04-30-2019, 06:03 AM
Some of you have really driven this thread into the weeds! Why donít you go start your own pro-ABX thread? I wasnít here during the strike and neither were a lot of current ATI pilots. From what I have been told, the only flights flown by ATI pilots during the strike were ATI flights on ATI routes with ATI freight. ATI is growing and is a great place to work. Nuff said.



What youíve been told??? You work there, right? Unless youíre living in some sort of alternate ATI universe, ATI has been doing primarily the same stuff ABX has been doing also for awhile. ATI isnít on the same league as Fedex and UPS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tonsterboy5
04-30-2019, 07:50 AM
I think you opening statement says it all....you are lost. First at the time ABX was moving cargo for DHL, Amazon, SAS , Aeromexico, and the US Government. Still is! With each of those companies having multiple customers. So it's much more involved than not flying DHL's freight. You say it's the same thing except DHL chooses to pay another airline to move its stuff! Except if the other airlines pilots honor the strike and refuse...which happened except for ATI. So the strike was successful in that a court was required to get the crews back in the cockpit and the items in dispute were resolved. But the reason was much deeper than the disputed items....its about letting the company know they will be required to follow the contract in all areas. If the other carriers had better Scope, displacement language, reassignment pay, fantastic disability and insurance they too would be interested in letting their company know that it will not be taken without a fight. ATI for one signed a contract without any of these. And now ATSG has a third carrier to mix in the whipsaw cycle. Please do some research before you decide to post about something you have no idea about. Also it was you who brought up scabs.

Well I tried to do research, and your statement still makes no sense, why does it matter if the other pilots flew? The fact they didnít fly is what ****ed off the judge forcing everyone back to work. If had just been ABX planes on the ground the impact for the customers and commerce in general would of been minimal but abx would of had zero revenue for longer actually forcing them to negotiate a better contract. But instead the simple act of stopping everything for everybody is what the problem was.

The whole idea of strike is to impact the company that is being struck, not every airline and customer of said airlines. (Yes I understand that a whole industry can strike but thatís for industry wide changes not a new contract for one company)

So instead of being condescending and saying do research and everyone else held the line so why didnít they. Help me understand why it makes any difference at all? ďItís about letting the company know they have to follow the contractĒ is your whole argument, well by stopping all commerce for companies that were following their contract is not how you do that. Itís like dropping a nuke on Seattle cause your mad at amazon? Yea you proved your point to Amazon but destroyed Microsoft, Boeing, and a whole bunch of other things in the process.

I really want to know why other companies have to lose revenue? The strike against ABX would of been successful if they and only they had the financial harm inflicted on them. But I bet you donít have the intelligence to answer that, you only let others think for you and
canít apply logic.
You still never answered my question, If AA pilots strike can pilots for other airlines sill fly their routes?

And lastly scab has been brought up numerous times in this thread calling those that fly ati planes scabs, calling the CP one the managers ETC. I didnít just pull it out of my ass like your pulled your answer out.

No Land 3
04-30-2019, 08:11 AM
Nah you didnít touch anything. Just your constant crying and misery is getting old.
And if by ďline crosserĒ youíre referring to the legendarily successful, pseudo strike at ABX, wrong again. I wasnít anywhere near that sorry place.
Would of been more interesting if that happened today with a second ALPA pilot group in CVG. I don't believe it would of been in ATI's favor.

Bungalow
04-30-2019, 09:12 AM
Spoken like a true suckass scab. You will go far. Howís your scab management doing?

Apoplectic syndrome strikes again. Forget scab management. Howís your blood pressure doing ?

nitefr8dog
04-30-2019, 11:05 AM
Well I tried to do research, and your statement still makes no sense, why does it matter if the other pilots flew? The fact they didnít fly is what ****ed off the judge forcing everyone back to work. If had just been ABX planes on the ground the impact for the customers and commerce in general would of been minimal but abx would of had zero revenue for longer actually forcing them to negotiate a better contract. But instead the simple act of stopping everything for everybody is what the problem was.

The whole idea of strike is to impact the company that is being struck, not every airline and customer of said airlines. (Yes I understand that a whole industry can strike but thatís for industry wide changes not a new contract for one company)

So instead of being condescending and saying do research and everyone else held the line so why didnít they. Help me understand why it makes any difference at all? ďItís about letting the company know they have to follow the contractĒ is your whole argument, well by stopping all commerce for companies that were following their contract is not how you do that. Itís like dropping a nuke on Seattle cause your mad at amazon? Yea you proved your point to Amazon but destroyed Microsoft, Boeing, and a whole bunch of other things in the process.

I really want to know why other companies have to lose revenue? The strike against ABX would of been successful if they and only they had the financial harm inflicted on them. But I bet you donít have the intelligence to answer that, you only let others think for you and
canít apply logic.
You still never answered my question, If AA pilots strike can pilots for other airlines sill fly their routes?

And lastly scab has been brought up numerous times in this thread calling those that fly ati planes scabs, calling the CP one the managers ETC. I didnít just pull it out of my ass like your pulled your answer out.

I feel like I am taking to a 4 yr old. You are trying to reason why you should be able to eat Doritos for breakfast....saying " I just don't understand " . . clueless

Reactivity
04-30-2019, 11:24 AM
...forcing them to negotiate a better contract.

You seem to be assuming that the strike was about contract negotiations. It was not. It was about correcting status quo violations of the current contract, and it did that.

I can see how some might think this thread has gone off into the weeds. But the fact is that when you go to work for ATI, you're not just working for ATI. You're working for ATSG, and the current management is perfectly happy to play one pilot group against the other to achieve their goals. This is what you're in for when you work there - don't think it won't happen to you just because you made them happy this time. The Omni group has no idea what they're in for the next time they go into contract negotiations. ATSG is going to try to push a deal just like ATI's on them. Then you're going to have TWO pilot groups unhappy with you. And some among the ATI group have said after the signing the current substandard deal, "we'll get it next time". No, you won't. It's already been shown that ALPA will roll over, and with a no strike clause in your contract, you have ZERO leverage. You'll be in negotiations for years just to get another substandard deal.

Good luck.

Reactivity
04-30-2019, 11:43 AM
The strike against ABX would of been successful if they and only they had the financial harm inflicted on them.

First: "would HAVE".

And no, it would not have. ATSG doesn't care who generates the revenue. They're perfectly happy to move it around. Consider this statement from the CEO of ATSG, who is also the CEO of ABX, during the 4th quarter earnings conference call in early 2017: "ATI, whose pilots are represented by ALPA, and did not support the strike, will crew all of the remaining aircraft we deploy for Amazon." ABX was to have operated ten of twenty aircraft originally contracted with Amazon. ABX had six at the time of the strike, and that's still all they have. The CEO has said more recently that of the twenty additional aircraft in the most recent Amazon contract, the ten this year will be going to ATI, and that there will be no growth at ABX until he gets the contract HE wants.

Nobody in management cares that there is no growth at ABX. ATSG earnings are increasing, and that's all they care about. Any of the three ATSG airlines could go away tomorrow and nobody would care because the revenue would move to the other two. That's the game they play.

tonsterboy5
04-30-2019, 11:48 AM
First: "would HAVE".

And no, it would not have. ATSG doesn't care who generates the revenue. They're perfectly happy to move it around. Consider this statement from the CEO of ATSG, who is also the CEO of ABX, during the 4th quarter earnings conference call in early 2017: "ATI, whose pilots are represented by ALPA, and did not support the strike, will crew all of the remaining aircraft we deploy for Amazon." ABX was to have operated ten of twenty aircraft originally contracted with Amazon. ABX had six at the time of the strike, and that's still all they have. The CEO has said more recently that of the twenty additional aircraft in the most recent Amazon contract, the ten this year will be going to ATI, and that there will be no growth at ABX until he gets the contract HE wants.

Nobody in management cares that there is no growth at ABX. ATSG earnings are increasing, and that's all they care about. Any of the three ATSG airlines could go away tomorrow and nobody would care because the revenue would move to the other two. That's the game they play.

I get that now they are owned by the same company so crossing the line to move freight still puts money in the pockets of the same people. But at the time they were separate

Reactivity
04-30-2019, 12:03 PM
I get that now they are owned by the same company so crossing the line to move freight still puts money in the pockets of the same people. But at the time they were separate

They were not. ATI was acquired by ABX as part of the purchase of CHI in 2007 (if memory serves). It was shortly after that time that ABX was reorganized as ATSG, and ABX became a subsidiary alongside ATI. The strike occurred in November of 2016, nearly nine years later.

EndOfTimes
04-30-2019, 12:35 PM
Good lord. Isnít it time for a moderator to step on Dogo? Heís embarrassing the ABX pilots with his childish garbage. As an ABX guy, Iíd like to say the vast majority of us have more self control than this fool.

dogo
04-30-2019, 12:41 PM
Oops, Reactiviy doesnít have a defined benefits program either. Need to get on that with the negotiation committee.

NeverHome
04-30-2019, 12:41 PM
In other words...they did not keep flying. If you were on property and walking the strike line supporting the pilots who were fighting for all union pilots at all carriers....you would have seen the ramp full of aircraft not moving. Except 4 ATI flights that is.

Except FOR ATI flights? Or FOUR ATI flights? Not very clear.

Yes I read your article. It states ďreportsĒ of the other DHL carriers not operating. Outside of that, nothing. I donít want reports, I want a link to a source that states with authority which flights by which carriers did not operate. Flight numbers would be best. That will give a very clear picture of who did what.

Also, there have been those that have called certain ATI management personnel scabs. I have requested a link to see where that statement can be corroborated. I googled and failed to find it. Based on earlier statements, I can only conclude 1 of 3 things:
1. They are not scabs
2. You do not know how to use a computer (if itís out there you would have found it by now, right?)
3. You do not know the definition of scab

Which is it? Lastly cut the attitude. If I am legit doing my homework, your statements are not conducive to learning. Iím not willing to settle for crap hearsay. I want concrete and verifiable. Iím not here to argue whether or not ABX was in the right to strike. Rather what happened.

dogo
04-30-2019, 12:41 PM
My bad: I meant End of Times

EndOfTimes
04-30-2019, 12:47 PM
Wrong dogo. I have the DB and a 401K, just like you. I just donít taunt people on this forum with it . That would be childish.

baldwin
04-30-2019, 01:21 PM
First: "would HAVE".

Consider this statement from the CEO of ATSG, who is also the CEO of ABX, during the 4th quarter earnings conference call in early 2017: "ATI, whose pilots are represented by ALPA, and did not support the strike, will crew all of the remaining aircraft we deploy for Amazon."

This^^^^^^^. For Godís sake, THIS.
For those who still Ďjust donít understandí what the big deal is when things went down the way they did between ATI/ABX in Nov 2016 think about the above quote from JH.
Given what he said, if you still donít understand why it was a big deal you probably never will

nitefr8dog
04-30-2019, 01:36 PM
Good lord. Isnít it time for a moderator to step on Dogo? Heís embarrassing the ABX pilots with his childish garbage. As an ABX guy, Iíd like to say the vast majority of us have more self control than this fool.
He is actually pretty funny and spot on...

nitefr8dog
04-30-2019, 01:38 PM
Wrong dogo. I have the DB and a 401K, just like you. I just donít taunt people on this forum with it . That would be childish.
Yes...with a lower match. Could have been more.....foolish for just a pay raise. ATI could have had scope, better disability, scheduling protection..is anyone at ATI going to retire making 150k plus company retirement? ...opportunity squandered.

EndOfTimes
04-30-2019, 01:57 PM
I am an ABX, legacy, 767 Captain. Just like you.

flynaz32
04-30-2019, 02:44 PM
Nightsky, thanks for the interview information. Iím interviewing next week.

nitefr8dog
04-30-2019, 03:02 PM
I am an ABX, legacy, 767 Captain. Just like you.
I think the conversation was about what ATI lost not what you have....

dogo
04-30-2019, 03:07 PM
As a side note...atsg and dhl extended their agreement but no contract due to bad faith negotiations. Time to roll over like that ATI pilot group did!

Aerospeed
05-01-2019, 05:57 PM
I havenít....Ēscabs be scabsĒ

Crybaby illegal strikers got their pee pee smacked by a judge and their airline got decimated by the parent company... Iíd be crying also! Eat your poo poo pie and watch ATI keep reaping the rewards! Oh, and Iím sure Amazon loves your fight with them, yíall are a big clown show at ABX and itís funny to watch!

dogo
05-02-2019, 02:53 AM
Howís your defined benefits program working for you? In 20 years you might figure it out noob.

Aerospeed
05-02-2019, 05:47 AM
Howís your defined benefits program working for you? In 20 years you might figure it out noob.

Thatís what we work on next. So, weíll have great pay and defined benefits on next contract. What will ABX have? A party in the unemployment line and a dead airline. Itís sad to watch you guys follow your union leadership into the fire.

Aerospeed
05-02-2019, 05:55 AM
As a side note...atsg and dhl extended their agreement but no contract due to bad faith negotiations. Time to roll over like that ATI pilot group did!

If by rolling over you mean great pay, high morale and more airplanes! Maybe they should! Itís all strawberries and rainbows at ATI. Why? Because weíre not stabbing ATSG and saying we love you, please give us more. Weíre a great pilot group and we fairly and effectively negotiate with management. We have improvements we still need and that comes next. End of the day, Teamsters tactics donít work, ALPAs does! ABX needs to change strategy or theyíre finished for good and Amazon wonít ever allow them to play ball.

dogo
05-02-2019, 06:00 AM
Very compliant. You are a very good boy. Johnny V loves you.

Aerospeed
05-02-2019, 10:11 AM
Very compliant. You are a very good boy. Johnny V loves you.

Darn right Iím compliant. I get a darn fair wage and have a fantastic work atmosphere and QOL. High morale and continued growth for ATI. Not many other can say that.

MarkThyme
05-02-2019, 02:39 PM
So, we’ll have great pay and defined benefits on next contract.

No, you will not.

You've already shown that you will give up when ALPA says you can't do any better. And in an environment where all but a few airlines have eliminated their defined benefit plan, you seriously think you're going to negotiate for a new one?

Dream on.

Aerospeed
05-02-2019, 07:56 PM
No, you will not.

You've already shown that you will give up when ALPA says you can't do any better. And in an environment where all but a few airlines have eliminated their defined benefit plan, you seriously think you're going to negotiate for a new one?

Dream on.

Mark this post, come back after negotiations and have a piece of humble pie. ALPA carriers are the highest paid and have the strongest support of unions worldwide. We will absolutely get what we want, mark my word! ATI is just better all around bro, get over it!

MarkThyme
05-02-2019, 08:43 PM
ALPA carriers are the highest paid and have the strongest support of unions worldwide.

Sure, if your name begins and ends with "Delta" or "United". But try telling that to the pilots at Alaska. Just don't mention the name "Kasher".

We will absolutely get what we want, mark my word! ATI is just better all around bro, get over it!

Honestly, though, you don't troll very well. To be effective, a troll needs to be at least a little bit believable. You are not.

dogo
05-03-2019, 03:41 AM
Must be Vestals son.

MentalMidget
05-03-2019, 01:26 PM
Darn right I’m compliant. I get a darn fair wage and have a fantastic work atmosphere and QOL. High morale and continued growth for ATI. Not many other can say that.




WTF are you smoking, you are not a line pilot. just a dweeb ...joined 2 days ago, go somewhere else and stir the pot, nothing you say is worth reading, I wish there was a block function here

Av8r75
05-11-2019, 12:57 PM
Funny how you claim that Aerospeed's comments are not valid because he/she has only just joined APC recently, but you say nothing about "dojo's" right to comment and he/she just joined in February...could it be because dogo agrees with you??

Not to mention my friend...your tenure here is not that long either at just over a year. Maybe you should block your own posts...funny how people always want to silence those they do not agree with. The purpose of a discussion board...last time I checked...was to facilitate discussion after all???

But you do not want a discussion...just a place where only your opinion and those who agree with you matters. I have an idea for you and those who share your sentiments...just go start a thread called "Lets talk crap about ATI" all for yourselves...you should be quite happy...lol!

Sorry for the rant, but sometimes the stuff people say on here is so....well...I just don't have the words...

MentalMidget
05-11-2019, 04:55 PM
Funny how you claim that Aerospeed's comments are not valid because he/she has only just joined APC recently, but you say nothing about "dojo's" right to comment and he/she just joined in February...could it be because dogo agrees with you??


No, its because of the content


Not to mention my friend...your tenure here is not that long either at just over a year. Maybe you should block your own posts...funny how people always want to silence those they do not agree with. The purpose of a discussion board...last time I checked...was to facilitate discussion after all???

But you do not want a discussion...just a place where only your opinion and those who agree with you matters. I have an idea for you and those who share your sentiments...just go start a thread called "Lets talk crap about ATI" all for yourselves...you should be quite happy...lol!


No you are incorrect. Its obvious you do not see the underlining meaning he brings to the "discussion"


Sorry for the rant, but sometimes the stuff people say on here is so....well...I just don't have the words...


ďNever argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.Ē ― Mark Twain


You win

freighthound
05-18-2019, 08:23 PM
Thatís what we work on next. So, weíll have great pay and defined benefits on next contract. What will ABX have? A party in the unemployment line and a dead airline. Itís sad to watch you guys follow your union leadership into the fire.
Are you for real? You really would revel in people losing their job? I hope your a management troll, because otherwise you have to be sub-human. I understand defending your airline, but wishing others to lose their job, thatís reprehensible.

dogo
05-19-2019, 06:20 AM
Aero speed is deluded. I personally talked to Joe Hete and Quint. Quote: ďdefined benefit programs are a thing of the pastĒ. Translated....you sellouts will never see one. Now get out and fly, you have my defined benefit plan to fund !

dynap09
05-19-2019, 03:08 PM
Are you for real? You really would revel in people losing their job? I hope your a management troll, because otherwise you have to be sub-human. I understand defending your airline, but wishing others to lose their job, thatís reprehensible.

100% agreed - ABX has tried a number of things to take ATI out over time. Not sure I'd call ABX pilots "sub-human" though. At least they aren't calling other carriers to try and get ATI banned from jumpseating anymore.

Migz74
05-31-2019, 01:54 PM
Iíve got an interview coming up. Im planning to fly into CMH and rent a car. If thereís any other candidates that are interested in carpooling and splitting cost please send me a P.M.

Cheers and best of luck!



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