Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : XJet in Horizon's backyard


DrPepper
04-05-2007, 04:18 PM
X-Jet seem to have big balls to step in Horizon's backyard. How will this play out.. Will XJet be able to compete or will Horizon's passengers stay dedicated.


JetJock16
04-05-2007, 04:21 PM
What routes are you taking about? I understand XJT to be opening an ONT base but that's not Horizon territory?

DrPepper
04-05-2007, 04:28 PM
Flights out of GEG, BOI, and SFM


ryane946
04-05-2007, 04:30 PM
Spokanne and Boise are really the only two cities I would consider Horizon's backyard. Sacramento is United and Southwest.

But, here is how Horizon is reacting. They are already going to double service from Spokanne to Sacramento.
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.aspx?Symbol=US:ALK&Feed=ACBJ&Date=20070330&ID=6692883

JetJock16
04-05-2007, 04:34 PM
Flights out of GEG, BOI, and SFM

SFM is Sanford, Maine. I think you mean SMF and that's United territory.

Sanchez
04-05-2007, 05:41 PM
http://www.soasoas.com/april/gallery/full/5x7_IMG_3382a_dpc.jpg

ScaryKite
04-05-2007, 06:02 PM
X-Jet seem to have big balls to step in Horizon's backyard. How will this play out.. Will XJet be able to compete or will Horizon's passengers stay dedicated.


9 out of 10 people dont know whos operating the flight they are on. They just go to expedia.com and travelocity and look for the cheapest prices.

QCappy
04-05-2007, 06:55 PM
Ask Independence Air employees how well it works starting a new airline flying 50 seat RJs with no codeshare.....Oh, wait. There aren't any more Indy employees. Never mind.:p

starvin marvin
04-05-2007, 07:05 PM
SFM is Sanford, Maine.

Damn, beat me to it. Kinda a small town to fly to from ONT. :)

Superpilot92
04-05-2007, 07:07 PM
Ask Independence Air employees how well it works starting a new airline flying 50 seat RJs with no codeshare.....Oh, wait. There aren't any more Indy employees. Never mind.:p

Thank you for showing everyone how much you know about the situation! Nothing like Indy other than operating 50 seaters. How much other revenue did Indy have other than FLYI? How much revenue do we have coming in on top of our venture? LOTS CAL and DAL are both providing us with money to supplement our plan.

Korean1DR
04-05-2007, 07:09 PM
9 out of 10 people dont know whos operating the flight they are on. They just go to expedia.com and travelocity and look for the cheapest prices.

Exactly, I don't think consumer loyalty will be a factor.

QCappy
04-05-2007, 09:24 PM
Thank you for showing everyone how much you know about the situation! Nothing like Indy other than operating 50 seaters. How much other revenue did Indy have other than FLYI? How much revenue do we have coming in on top of our venture? LOTS CAL and DAL are both providing us with money to supplement our plan.

Actually I know a lot about "the situation". Why would a company want to supplement a plan with money that is provided by being one of the low bidders. This venture by Expressjet is exactly like Indy. Other business plans aside. 50 seat jets cannot make money on thier own. Period. As the poster above noted, people will go for the lowest price. If that is the case, which we all know is true, then this little experiment by Expressjet will not last long. I have nothing against the airline, and I know several people who fly for them, but this plan will not work. If in a years time I am wrong I will apologize and admit I know nothing about this industry. I have a feeling I won't have to do that, however.

And by the way, if it is such a great plan why does it need to be supplemented by your other lines of business?

And here are a few quotes from Mike Boyd's website (www.aviationplanning.com) I find appropriate to this conversation:

"The economics of 50-seat and smaller jets are getting about as attractive as Madeline Albright in a hula skirt."

"the question is which airlines in the next five years will be interested in leasing a bunch of used 50-seat jets? Hint: if it's smaller than 70 seats, its strongest future might be as part of a Budweiser display."

JoeyMeatballs
04-05-2007, 09:38 PM
Ask Independence Air employees how well it works starting a new airline flying 50 seat RJs with no codeshare.....Oh, wait. There aren't any more Indy employees. Never mind.:p

Your brilliant

JoeyMeatballs
04-05-2007, 09:39 PM
Actually I know a lot about "the situation". Why would a company want to supplement a plan with money that is provided by being one of the low bidders. This venture by Expressjet is exactly like Indy. Other business plans aside. 50 seat jets cannot make money on thier own. Period. As the poster above noted, people will go for the lowest price. If that is the case, which we all know is true, then this little experiment by Expressjet will not last long. I have nothing against the airline, and I know several people who fly for them, but this plan will not work. If in a years time I am wrong I will apologize and admit I know nothing about this industry. I have a feeling I won't have to do that, however.

And by the way, if it is such a great plan why does it need to be supplemented by your other lines of business?

And here are a few quotes from Mike Boyd's website (www.aviationplanning.com) I find appropriate to this conversation:

"The economics of 50-seat and smaller jets are getting about as attractive as Madeline Albright in a hula skirt."

"the question is which airlines in the next five years will be interested in leasing a bunch of used 50-seat jets? Hint: if it's smaller than 70 seats, its strongest future might be as part of a Budweiser display."


Your right lets be like CHQ and fly 70 seat airplanes for ****ty pay...........theres an idea:eek:

QCappy
04-05-2007, 09:39 PM
Your brilliant

I believe it's you're.:rolleyes:

QCappy
04-05-2007, 09:40 PM
Your right lets be like CHQ and fly 70 seat airplanes for ****ty pay...........theres an idea:eek:

You may have to if you get furloughed.

JoeyMeatballs
04-05-2007, 09:57 PM
You may have to if you get furloughed.

I dunno I have about 450 underneath me.....oh and by the way..........."Props are for boats":eek: :cool:

JetJock16
04-05-2007, 10:07 PM
I dunno I have about 450 underneath me.....oh and by the way..........."Props are for boats":eek: :cool:

Here's your banana now get back in your cage. LOL :D

You know you loved your time on the Saab as I loved mine on the Bro. We turbopropers are part of a special group; you could call us the "Blue collar 121ers." Even though you and I have made the leap to turbofan, I'll always remember my Bro days.

JoeyMeatballs
04-05-2007, 10:18 PM
Here's your banana now get back in your cage. LOL :D

You know you loved your time on the Saab as I loved mine on the Bro. We turbopropers are part of a special group; you could call us the "Blue collar 121ers." Even though you and I have made the leap to turbofan, I'll always remember my Bro days.

Right on, when guys in my new-hire XJET class would make fun of the SAAB, I would get quite irate, but then I realized its there loss, wouldnt trade my SAAB days for anything ;)

Flyin1500
04-06-2007, 07:23 AM
I dunno I have about 450 underneath me.....oh and by the way..........."Props are for boats":eek: :cool:

Jets are for hot tubs.

It'll be interesting to see how this works. I'd rather sit on a Q400 than a rj any day, but then again, the q400 only goes to 250. So summer time trw surfing is always interesting. I think it'll definitely boil down to fares. Can XJ make the same amount of money a Q400 can on a specific route. I doubt it. We'll see. I hope it works for y'all. A little competition is good for the market. Besides, our 50 year old flight attendants are hotter than yours!

QCappy
04-06-2007, 08:23 AM
Jets are for hot tubs.

Can XJ make the same amount of money a Q400 can on a specific route. I doubt it.

The answer is no. However, on the routes we will be directly competing we are using CRJ-700s, not Q400s. GEG-SMF, GEG-SAN, BOI-SAN, and to a degree GEG-LAX vs. GEG-ONT. The only route where the Q400 sort of goes against them is on the BOI-LAX vs. BOI-ONT. It will be good to have a little competition. It also was nice to see the Air Group finally step up and try to defend some markets for once.

Sanchez
04-06-2007, 09:02 AM
The answer is no. However, on the routes we will be directly competing we are using CRJ-700s, not Q400s. GEG-SMF, GEG-SAN, BOI-SAN, and to a degree GEG-LAX vs. GEG-ONT. The only route where the Q400 sort of goes against them is on the BOI-LAX vs. BOI-ONT. It will be good to have a little competition. It also was nice to see the Air Group finally step up and try to defend some markets for once.

You're such a flame bait little mary.

Let's talk in facts:

ACA - Hub and Spoke
XJT - Point to point

ACA - Devoted entire fleet to launching operation.
XJT - Less than 20% of the fleet doing brand, while the other 230 + frames are making money.

ACA - In direct competition with United and other major players.
XJT - ONT, SAT, AUS, MSY....who's the competition again? Oh yeah, west coast Horizon...OOOOOHHHH, scary. Horizon simply doesn't have the frames to be a major competitor to XJT...plain and simple.

ACA - Targeted major markets out of IAD.
XJT - Thin routes, to underserved medium to small markets.

ACA - Tried selling tickets at very low prices, with a net loss to gain market share.
XJT - No need, if the route doesn't work, we just try another.

For someone who claims to be in the left seat, you sure don't know your head from your @ss when it comes to our business plan or any other aspect of our operation, or this industry.

And Michael Boyd...for everyone he gets right, he gets 9 WRONG. This is the same guy that praised Jonathan Orstein for running a good airline....great source flame bait!

QCappy
04-06-2007, 09:11 AM
You're such a flame bait little mary.
For someone who claims to be in the left seat, you sure don't know your head from your @ss when it comes to our business plan or any other aspect of our operation, or this industry.

You're right, I know nothing about your operation, because I don't care.:D

Ok. You caught me. I'll be in the right seat of a 737 in two weeks, so look for me there where "little girlies" sit. I hope your anger toward me is not a sign you're scared by your companies little experiment. You sound like the classic kool aid drinker who believes everything their management tells them. Good luck. I hope this new experiment works well for you guys.:rolleyes:

SharkyBN584
04-06-2007, 09:26 AM
Your right lets be like CHQ and fly 70 seat airplanes for ****ty pay...........theres an idea:eek:

Just perusing 5th year captain pay (seemed like a nice benchmark) at other regionals flying 70 seat aircraft and you'd get paid less at ASA, Comair, Skywest, PSA, and of course Mesa and GoJets (which doesn't count anyways). In fact, the only carrier I saw that had us beat was Eagle. Are you ever going to get off this or does it just erk you cuz it's CHQ?

(oh, and technically, it's Republic/Shuttle America flying 70 seat aircraft, but I'll give you a pass since it's all one contract anyways).

Flyin1500
04-06-2007, 09:56 AM
.who's the competition again? Oh yeah, west coast Horizon...OOOOOHHHH, scary. Horizon simply doesn't have the frames to be a major competitor to XJT...plain and simple.

I dunno dude, but if you're looking at the direct market stuff, I'll bet a frosty cold microbrew that the economics of running a 70 seat bent wing pencil liner against a 50 seat one, well, the 70 seat will win out. Of course it's a moot point unless you can factor load factor, etc in there.

But you are correct that we will prolly never make that big of an impact on the whole xjt operation just because of the lack of recycled beer cans with engines on them. Unless you consider the 'harmonzation' we're capable of with big ugly sister (sorry qcapp....hope they have good beer there!) That right there is a huge and very powerful tool. I certainly don't think we'll run you out of the market, but you can bet that you won't run us out either.

btw you guys have free beer on your planes?

dojetdriver
04-06-2007, 09:57 AM
You're such a flame bait little mary.

Let's talk in facts:

ACA - Hub and Spoke
XJT - Point to point

ACA - Devoted entire fleet to launching operation.
XJT - Less than 20% of the fleet doing brand, while the other 230 + frames are making money.

ACA - In direct competition with United and other major players.
XJT - ONT, SAT, AUS, MSY....who's the competition again? Oh yeah, west coast Horizon...OOOOOHHHH, scary. Horizon simply doesn't have the frames to be a major competitor to XJT...plain and simple.

ACA - Targeted major markets out of IAD.
XJT - Thin routes, to underserved medium to small markets.

ACA - Tried selling tickets at very low prices, with a net loss to gain market share.
XJT - No need, if the route doesn't work, we just try another.

For someone who claims to be in the left seat, you sure don't know your head from your @ss when it comes to our business plan or any other aspect of our operation, or this industry.

And Michael Boyd...for everyone he gets right, he gets 9 WRONG. This is the same guy that praised Jonathan Orstein for running a good airline....great source flame bait!

Let's talk more facts. Or just prove how LITTLE you know about Indy.

ACA - Hub an spoke, but they ALSO tried point to point. DAL put ERJ's on the exact same routes to FL and killed them on pricing.

ACA - Was FORCED into devoting entire fleet into independent operation. They tried to get other business. In 2003, nobody wanted another carrier on property, much less an expensive one. Besides, had we stayed with UAL, it would not have been pretty. Look at AWAC as an example. And for somebody like you who doesn't know much, that is not the FIRST time UAL gave that company a royal screw job.

ACA - Was in direct competition with UAL, but that wasn't focus of the original business plan. It was more by defafult. The IAD area is huge and has massive travel demographic. People were driving all the way to BWI to take advantage of SW's low fares instead of getting raped by UAL/USAir/AA at IAD. The plan was to offer low fares out of IAD and draw that customer back instead of them driving all the way to BWI. As a result, for a brief period of time, passenger traffic dropped off at BWI.

ACA - Elected not to put themselves on other internet sales option. It's EXTREMELY expensive to do so. It was a cost savings measure, and one of their biggest marketing gaffs.

Sanchez
04-06-2007, 10:03 AM
You're right, I know nothing about your operation, because I don't care.:D

Ok. You caught me. I'll be in the right seat of a 737 in two weeks, so look for me there where "little girlies" sit. I hope your anger toward me is not a sign you're scared by your companies little experiment. You sound like the classic kool aid drinker who believes everything their management tells them. Good luck. I hope this new experiment works well for you guys.:rolleyes:

No anger, just calling you out. I like having debates with facts, not opinions. You simply said that we were just like ACA (flame bait)...clearly we're not. I appreciate your concern, but I'm not worried about the branded operation. At a worse case scenario, if it fails (which I highly doubt), we just take our airplanes and put them to work some where else, or simply integrate them into one of the other operations as the older frames get older (brand flying has all the newer frames). I can assure you that due to the pilot shortage everyone is going through we wouldn't furlough anyone, it may get stagnant, but no furloughs.

Good luck on the 73!

Sanchez
04-06-2007, 10:09 AM
Let's talk more facts. Or just prove how LITTLE you know about Indy.

ACA - Hub an spoke, but they ALSO tried point to point. DAL put ERJ's on the exact same routes to FL and killed them on pricing.

ACA - Was FORCED into devoting entire fleet into independent operation. They tried to get other business. In 2003, nobody wanted another carrier on property, much less an expensive one. Besides, had we stayed with UAL, it would not have been pretty. Look at AWAC as an example. And for somebody like you who doesn't know much, that is not the FIRST time UAL gave that company a royal screw job.

ACA - Was in direct competition with UAL, but that wasn't focus of the original business plan. It was more by defafult. The IAD area is huge and has massive travel demographic. People were driving all the way to BWI to take advantage of SW's low fares instead of getting raped by UAL/USAir/AA at IAD. The plan was to offer low fares out of IAD and draw that customer back instead of them driving all the way to BWI. As a result, for a brief period of time, passenger traffic dropped off at BWI.

ACA - Elected not to put themselves on other internet sales option. It's EXTREMELY expensive to do so. It was a cost savings measure, and one of their biggest marketing gaffs.

It's no secret that ACA was forced into this nose first, but it doesn't change the facts. It was mostly Hub and Spoke, they were still in direct competition with major players. You just acknowledged everything I said.

I know you're here at express, and you're probably that same guy that's constantly *****ing about everything here, and about how great things were at ACA. Sorry you got furlough, but you can thank United, J.O., and your great management team for that one.

dojetdriver
04-06-2007, 10:24 AM
I know you're here at express, and you're probably that same guy that's constantly *****ing about everything here, and about how great things were at ACA. Sorry you got furlough, but you can thank United, J.O., and your great management team for that one.

Nope, I rarely ***** about Express. And when I do, it's pretty much the same complaints everbody else has. I'm happy to be working there. Nice try though.

JoeyMeatballs
04-06-2007, 11:16 AM
You're right, I know nothing about your operation, because I don't care.:D

Ok. You caught me. I'll be in the right seat of a 737 in two weeks, so look for me there where "little girlies" sit. I hope your anger toward me is not a sign you're scared by your companies little experiment. You sound like the classic kool aid drinker who believes everything their management tells them. Good luck. I hope this new experiment works well for you guys.:rolleyes:

I feel bad for you............I don't know why I just do:eek:, you "Dash 8" CA, we should all be so lucky... Im just kidding, look our management could of given CAL back the airplanes, a lot of pilots would of been out of a job, what can I say we have BALLS, large BALLS

PS. Our management has been talking about this long before cal decided to withdraw the 69 airplanes

Superpilot92
04-07-2007, 08:41 AM
Actually I know a lot about "the situation". Why would a company want to supplement a plan with money that is provided by being one of the low bidders. This venture by Expressjet is exactly like Indy. Other business plans aside. 50 seat jets cannot make money on their own. Period. As the poster above noted, people will go for the lowest price. If that is the case, which we all know is true, then this little experiment by Expressjet will not last long. I have nothing against the airline, and I know several people who fly for them, but this plan will not work. If in a years time I am wrong I will apologize and admit I know nothing about this industry. I have a feeling I won't have to do that, however.

And by the way, if it is such a great plan why does it need to be supplemented by your other lines of business?

And here are a few quotes from Mike Boyd's website (www.aviationplanning.com) I find appropriate to this conversation:

"The economics of 50-seat and smaller jets are getting about as attractive as Madeline Albright in a hula skirt."

"the question is which airlines in the next five years will be interested in leasing a bunch of used 50-seat jets? Hint: if it's smaller than 70 seats, its strongest future might be as part of a Budweiser display."

First, with me saying we can supplement the new venture from the other revenues we have, was not to imply that the ExpressJet Branded flying needed it to stay afloat. But the supplemental Income will offset the start up costs. With you reasoning about supplemental income, can you say someone who makes a decent living at his/her primary job decides to start up a home business to bring in more income is bad business. From our mgmt, we need about 25-30 people on board to turn a profit. Loads on some flights already in the first week have been over 40 people. You do the math. With the economies of scale we have the operating expense of the 50 seater is probably the lowest of all 50 seater operators.

With you quoting Boyd basically shows where you get all your information from. Must be true if "Boyd" says so!:rolleyes: But i guess you get all your information from the News or websites right?

Honestly, Answer this question, How much do you know about the operation we have going and what the future business plans are?

I am one that knows better to go smarting off about another's carrier without substantial information from first hand experiences. Thanks for you time!:p

QCappy
04-07-2007, 08:49 AM
I've said all I need to on this subject. We'll talk in a year.

johnso29
04-07-2007, 01:14 PM
Glad everyone knows so much about running an airline. Maybe everybody should just **** and go start your own. Then we will see how good all the experts on this board do. You experts watch what the Legacies do and its obvious that they have it right. You know, since the Lecagies make about a 4 cent profit for every dollar that it collects they must have it right. You want to talk about a flawed business plan...jeesh. We should all just follow what they do. We all know that the 50 seat jet thing won't work because we saw what happened with FlyI so its obvious that the exact same thing will happen with XJET. Maybe everyone should just wait and see....

Superpilot92
04-07-2007, 01:26 PM
Glad everyone knows so much about running an airline. Maybe everybody should just **** and go start your own. Then we will see how good all the experts on this board do. You experts watch what the Legacies do and its obvious that they have it right. You know, since the Lecagies make about a 4 cent profit for every dollar that it collects they must have it right. You want to talk about a flawed business plan...jeesh. We should all just follow what they do. We all know that the 50 seat jet thing won't work because we saw what happened with FlyI so its obvious that the exact same thing will happen with XJET. Maybe everyone should just wait and see....

Am i sensing some sarcasm?;)

Sanchez
04-07-2007, 01:59 PM
Am i sensing some sarcasm?;)

Or stupidity. I have 9 years of business experience prior to aviation, i wonder what Mr. Johnson has in his corner, besides the Embry Riddle stigma.

johnso29
04-08-2007, 08:51 AM
Or stupidity. I have 9 years of business experience prior to aviation, i wonder what Mr. Johnson has in his corner, besides the Embry Riddle stigma.


WOW! A whole 9 years of experience. Why don't you just put your resume in now! And I didn't go to Riddle, besides you're missing the point. Everybody on here spouts off about how XJETs branded flying will or won't work when the truth of the matter is nobody really knows. I don't think anybody here has a crystal ball. Maybe everyone should just wait and see how it turns out. I feel it has a better chance than Independence because there are many differences between the two, about the only similarity is 50 seat jets. And I'm for the flying being successful, particularly because I am an XJETR.

Fokker28
04-09-2007, 09:00 AM
This is slightly off topic, and I truly mean no disrespect, but I just saw an ExpressJet airplane in GEG the other day, and MY GOD THAT PAINT JOB IS HIDEOUS! What's up with that thing? Did the CEO design it himself? It just seems so cluttered and busy. That said, I think our (Alaska and Horizon) scheme is looking pretty dated.

dojetdriver
04-09-2007, 11:41 AM
This is slightly off topic, and I truly mean no disrespect, but I just saw an ExpressJet airplane in GEG the other day, and MY GOD THAT PAINT JOB IS HIDEOUS! What's up with that thing? Did the CEO design it himself? It just seems so cluttered and busy. That said, I think our (Alaska and Horizon) scheme is looking pretty dated.

It's called Aquafresh.

Fokker28
04-09-2007, 11:44 AM
It's called Aquafresh.

THAT'S IT! I can't believe I couldn't place it before!

JoeyMeatballs
04-09-2007, 12:22 PM
Our paint job is the shizzel :) Ready. Set. Jet


Dont know if any of you have seen the news broadcast on Some SAT TV station...........Good things, good things, I for one, am damn proud of us :cool:

mccube5
04-09-2007, 01:25 PM
I kinda like the paint job, not great but respectable

crjav8er
04-09-2007, 02:50 PM
Left BOI today and the ONT flight left with 4 people.......

JoeyMeatballs
04-09-2007, 02:55 PM
Left BOI today and the ONT flight left with 4 people.......

and ONT-OMA, had 43??????????????????/ so LOOKS LIKE THE SKY ISNT FALLING AFTER ALL. Its the first week, and up until 2 days ago we werent on ORBITZ and all of the other travel sites, do you really think any start up has high loads the first couple weeks/months?

crjav8er
04-09-2007, 03:21 PM
and ONT-OMA, had 43??????????????????/ so LOOKS LIKE THE SKY ISNT FALLING AFTER ALL. Its the first week, and up until 2 days ago we werent on ORBITZ and all of the other travel sites, do you really think any start up has high loads the first couple weeks/months?

Easy fella, a little defensive eh?

JoeyMeatballs
04-09-2007, 03:29 PM
Easy fella, a little defensive eh?

:mad: :rolleyes: sorry I got all excited.............I did get a little heated there, sorry:o

crjav8er
04-09-2007, 03:32 PM
:mad: :rolleyes: sorry I got all excited.............I did get a little heated there, sorry:o

No prob, I actually think competition is a good thing. It might make Horizon actually think about expanding.....nah that would be too sensible.

JetJock16
04-09-2007, 04:26 PM
sorry I got all excited.............I did get a little heated there, sorry

I wish you guys the best of luck and I'm glad to here it's going well. But I still think the paint scheme is, well????????? :confused:

But that doesn't matter, BEST OF LUCK! I'm pulling for ya!

JoeyMeatballs
04-09-2007, 04:32 PM
I wish you guys the best of luck and I'm glad to here it's going well. But I still think the paint scheme is, well????????? :confused:

But that doesn't matter, BEST OF LUCK! I'm pulling for ya!

haha, yeah I am obviously biased, I think it looks good on our planes, but then again, they could of painted a dog's a** on the things and I would still defend it ;)

JetJock16
04-09-2007, 04:43 PM
haha, yeah I am obviously biased, I think it looks good on our planes, but then again, they could of painted a dog's a** on the things and I would still defend it ;)

That's loyalty for ya, keep it up. I'd pay to see a "Dogs A$$" on an airplane. Although I swear I saw a Frontier Wolf mooning me the other day! :eek:

SharkyBN584
04-09-2007, 08:46 PM
Our paint job is the shizzel :) Ready. Set. Jet


Dont know if any of you have seen the news broadcast on Some SAT TV station...........Good things, good things, I for one, am damn proud of us :cool:

Go Dolphins?

G-Dog
04-09-2007, 09:19 PM
From our mgmt, we need about 25-30 people on board to turn a profit. Loads on some flights already in the first week have been over 40 people. You do the math. With the economies of scale we have the operating expense of the 50 seater is probably the lowest of all 50 seater operators.

People will go to the new product to check it out. That is why pax count is good now. Costs are usually low at first till the numbers role in also. If the pax like to new product, they may stay. And if the costs do not get to crazy, XJet will survive.

ToiletDuck
04-10-2007, 01:26 PM
X-Jet seem to have big balls to step in Horizon's backyard. How will this play out.. Will XJet be able to compete or will Horizon's passengers stay dedicated.

There's no such thing as a dedicated passenger. People jump ship for a buck cheaper it's why we are racing to the bottom.

JoeyMeatballs
04-10-2007, 01:28 PM
There's no such thing as a dedicated passenger. People jump ship for a buck cheaper it's why we are racing to the bottom.

Not necessarily the case anymore................besides we are cheaper than most:D

SharkyBN584
04-10-2007, 02:13 PM
Not necessarily the case anymore................besides we are cheaper than most:D

1. Good Contract
2. Profit Margin
3. Cheap

Airlines only get 2 out of the 3.

crjav8er
04-10-2007, 02:15 PM
Does anyone know how the fares are stacked up against Horizon/Alaska/Southwest?

JoeyMeatballs
04-10-2007, 02:20 PM
Does anyone know how the fares are stacked up against Horizon/Alaska/Southwest?

cheaper, some by a hundred bucks or so, others by only a few bucks, heres a news clip, should give you a good idea ;)

http://www.ksat.com/video/11514035/index.html

Makes me proud :)

Superpilot92
04-10-2007, 02:21 PM
1. Good Contract
2. Profit Margin
3. Cheap

Airlines only get 2 out of the 3.

Not true. We have a diversified company that has reduced its overall cost not by taking from the employees but lowering the operating costs. We do most, if not all of our mx as well as the other regionals pay us to work on and paint their aircraft=More money for XJT. Most of the other venture we have going are there to bring down our operating cost. Our MGMT could have come after pay cuts when CAL said they were yanking planes. They didn't because thats not how our company reduces costs. That's the problem with other carriers, they think that if your contract and pay is good you cant have low overall operating costs, well its not true. Thats what mgmt wants you to think though. Rant over

crjav8er
04-10-2007, 02:31 PM
When are you XJTers up for section 6 negotiations? Time to raise the bar if this thing works out!

de727ups
04-10-2007, 02:47 PM
"Does anyone know how the fares are stacked up against Horizon/Alaska/Southwest?"

I looked at GEG-ONT walk up fares a couple days ago. They were exactly the same as the SWA/AS/QX walk up.

JoeyMeatballs
04-10-2007, 02:47 PM
Were Direct, are those guys?:confused:

Flyin1500
04-12-2007, 07:45 AM
Were Direct, are those guys?:confused:

direct? or non-stop. Big difference.

LOW FUEL
04-12-2007, 08:16 AM
When are you XJTers up for section 6 negotiations? Time to raise the bar if this thing works out!

not till nov 2010, i think.

Fokker28
04-12-2007, 09:23 AM
Were Direct, are those guys?:confused:

No, but we go direct GEG-LAX.

Flyin1500
04-12-2007, 04:11 PM
No, but we go direct GEG-LAX.

You mean non-stop. Direct just means you don't have to change planes.

Fokker28
04-12-2007, 05:20 PM
And yet you knew what I meant...

Flyin1500
04-12-2007, 06:58 PM
yeah but.........

UWpilot
04-12-2007, 08:00 PM
The answer is no. However, on the routes we will be directly competing we are using CRJ-700s, not Q400s. GEG-SMF, GEG-SAN, BOI-SAN, and to a degree GEG-LAX vs. GEG-ONT. The only route where the Q400 sort of goes against them is on the BOI-LAX vs. BOI-ONT. It will be good to have a little competition. It also was nice to see the Air Group finally step up and try to defend some markets for once.

If the "Airgroup" really wanted to defend some markets, for starters they would take those CRJs and Q400s off them and put a 737 on them.

Flyin1500
04-13-2007, 08:27 AM
If the "Airgroup" really wanted to defend some markets, for starters they would take those CRJs and Q400s off them and put a 737 on them.

See, now you're thinking. However you are missing the 'big picture'. In order for airgroup to 'harmonize' our flying, there is a massive, intricate, complicated process that needs to be undertaken in order to accomplish this very thing. Basically the information is boiled down to it's very essence, channeled through an ancient eskimo spirit named rusty, and then fed into a cray supercomputer. It's a lengthy process that takes at the minimum, 24 months. After that, the market has changed, and the process starts all over again.

de727ups
04-13-2007, 10:32 AM
As far as GEG-LAX nonstop trying to compete with GEG-ONT and Xjet. AS is taking the early morning 737 off the route and putting on two QX RJ's. One morning and one evening. This starts beginning of July, I think. Personally, I like it because an evening LAX RJ works for my commute where the early flight never did. I think that's AS's answer to the two Xjet GEG-ONT flights.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1