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echelon
05-16-2018, 08:09 AM
https://news.erau.edu/headlines/erau-flight-simulator-instructors-reenact-emergency-landing-on-abcs-2020/

Stick shaker at 0:49 with a possible secondary stall, GPWS "sink rate" at 1:49. Who decided to not only let her come play dress up and pretend to be an airline pilot in the sim, but then also actually air this display on national TV?


Ray Red
05-16-2018, 08:32 AM
WOW. Idle at 100ft and the both hand on the yoke. And what's with pulling the spoiler handle on landing when they've already auto deployed?

say again
05-16-2018, 08:35 AM
What an embarrassing display...:rolleyes:


CaptCoolHand
05-16-2018, 08:44 AM
"aren't you glad you were wearing your seatbelt"

because i almost stalled... then almost stalled again!

Just another day driving the Sim.

Beaverbeliever
05-16-2018, 08:48 AM
All the more reason for the 1,500 hour rule.

Baradium
05-16-2018, 08:52 AM
WOW. Idle at 100ft and the both hand on the yoke. And what's with pulling the spoiler handle on landing when they've already auto deployed?

Looks like a CRJ, if it's a 200 then idle at 100ft is actually fairly realistic depending on speed.

Putting both hands on the yoke though? Yeah....

GogglesPisano
05-16-2018, 08:53 AM
Ya but she was photogenic, and she's perfect for their target audience (20/20). So it's all good.


At least they used a real sim -- not some overused generic, stock footage "cockpit" like "Air Disasters" uses.

echelon
05-16-2018, 09:01 AM
At least they used a real sim

For the wrong airplane though... I guess I just don't understand why they went to ERAU in the first place to watch a Cessna instructor play around in a CRJ sim when there's no shortage of 737 sims or pilots that are actually qualified to fly airliners.

wrxpilot
05-16-2018, 09:07 AM
A great display of what us RJ captains are dealing with these days. I wish I was kidding.

Learflyer
05-16-2018, 09:21 AM
Girl power! Job fair superstars.

Two Kings
05-16-2018, 09:27 AM
Awful segment.

Any reason they couldn’t put the reporter in the observation seat and show home viewers how an airliner is suppose to be operated? The FO has just as must to do with the safe outcome of a flight as the Captain.

hilltopflyer
05-16-2018, 09:32 AM
Don't worry she will be at delta in 2 years

KSCessnaDriver
05-16-2018, 09:33 AM
Looks like a CRJ, if it's a 200 then idle at 100ft is actually fairly realistic depending on speed.

Putting both hands on the yoke though? Yeah....

99% sure that's a CRJ-200, from looking at the displays on pause. So pulling the power that high is not a big deal.

hilltopflyer
05-16-2018, 09:39 AM
Looks like a CRJ, if it's a 200 then idle at 100ft is actually fairly realistic depending on speed.

Putting both hands on the yoke though? Yeah....

I flew crjs and if you were single engine and let a completely unspooled engine float down from 100 feet you weren't going to make it. Let alone if you had to do a go around. Terrible tv segment.

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 09:41 AM
It was a CRJ 200, and she sucked. She finally stowed the boards after stalling a few times. 100 feet is too high for idle even in a 200, if your energy state is that jacked you need to go around. But she probably had the red screen disabled.

Must be a reason she works for riddle. Tami Jo probably threw up a little bit.

jcountry
05-16-2018, 09:48 AM
Harvard of the Sky!

RJCaptin
05-16-2018, 10:22 AM
It's all good, as long as she passes the Hogan. Call the United recruiters.

Baradium
05-16-2018, 10:24 AM
It was a CRJ 200, and she sucked. She finally stowed the boards after stalling a few times. 100 feet is too high for idle even in a 200, if your energy state is that jacked you need to go around. But she probably had the red screen disabled.

Must be a reason she works for riddle. Tami Jo probably threw up a little bit.

Not going to comment on the rest of the airmanship. However...

Depending on conditions, 100 ft is very plausible in a 200. Many 200 pilots pull power way too late and land much flatter than they should be. A pretty normal technique is to begin pulling power at 100 ft and vary speed of reduction based on energy state. Power should normally be at idle by 50 ft in that plane. Depending on energy and winds, straight to idle at 100 ft does happen, especially depending on approach speed being flown (whether the operator flies at ref or ref+5 or more).

dudeskibro
05-16-2018, 10:34 AM
The pilot in this video was a legacy pilot furloughed after 9/11 who didn't come back to flying. She's a professor in the college and hasn't touched a jet in almost 20 years. She's a brilliant and fantastic professor. 20/20 should have gone to an airline or sim facility and found a 737 instructor.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 10:47 AM
Heres a great bit from reddit on the video

Alternate title: Watch as a "veteran ERAU pilot" brings shame to herself, her employer, and the brand she represents and embarrasses an entire profession!

Never before have I been so embarrassed by the fact that I graduated from ERAU, and that's saying something. The fact that this display of airmanship, that is frankly antithetical to the way real airline pilots are trained in almost every way, was allowed to be filmed let alone aired is, in a word, breathtaking.

Everything in this video is a fantastic example of what NOT to do:

DON'T forget to fly the airplane first. That includes NOT activating the stick shaker and almost stalling, and then almost secondary stalling, a swept wing jet at high altitude. For those that aren't familiar, the rattling sound at 0:49 is the stick shaker activating to alert the crew that the airplane is close to stalling.

DON'T fly an unstabilized approach and risk a single engine go-around, or worse, a crash. The "Sink Rate" call at 1:49 means she's descending too fast, too close to the ground. The necessity to land ASAP does not also mean it's necessary to further compromise safety.

DON'T call them "crash cars." Especially to passengers.

It's funny that she says towards the end that all she's doing is "thinking about putting the airplane down safely." Unfortunately, she's not thinking about it hard enough - stick shakers and GPWS callouts had no place in this emergency. Had this been real life, she would have taken a serious but manageable situation and turned it into a much more serious, and potentially much more fatal, situation with the safe outcome of the flight seriously in question. This is a terrible example to set and I would sure hope that this isn't what people are getting for their $200,000 in tuition these days. I mean, ERAU is an enormous ripoff to begin with, but to pay that kind of money to learn THIS sloppy, unprofessional, nonsense?? They should be ashamed.

HOWEVER here is a bit from the opposite side of the table
Jesus christ are you guys really trusting this highly chopped up and edited video to accurately portray her abilities as a pilot?

I'd be willing to bet that once ABC saw how uneventful the emergency descent was, they asked her to perform some "exciting" maneuvers that they used to spice up this ridiculous 3 minute video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EaQLca9rJY They could have used THIS as to show how it happens IRL but nooo they needed to have all the drama and such for ratings.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 10:48 AM
It was a CRJ 200, and she sucked. She finally stowed the boards after stalling a few times. 100 feet is too high for idle even in a 200, if your energy state is that jacked you need to go around. But she probably had the red screen disabled.

Must be a reason she works for riddle. Tami Jo probably threw up a little bit.

TJ prob fainted when she saw the video.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 10:55 AM
WOW. Idle at 100ft and the both hand on the yoke. And what's with pulling the spoiler handle on landing when they've already auto deployed?

If they auto deploy shouldn't the handle come back to the extended position like on Boeing aircraft? She most likely just did a manual deployment after landing.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 10:56 AM
A great display of what us RJ captains are dealing with these days. I wish I was kidding.

Dealing with in terms of the quality of your FOs? If thats the case then oof!!

Baradium
05-16-2018, 10:57 AM
If they auto deploy shouldn't the handle come back to the extended position like on Boeing aircraft? She most likely just did a manual deployment after landing.

On a CRJ the handle is only for the manual deployment. There is no full deploy detent and it only actuates the flight spoilers. Manual deployment of the ground spoilers (as well as deactivation of auto deploy) is via a 3 position switch.

For some reason she has the flight controls page up on the right MFD and you can see the spoilers indicating deployed before she moves that handle.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 11:09 AM
When I saw the video, this came to mind
https://i.imgur.com/P0Xb5CO.jpg

captjns
05-16-2018, 11:13 AM
The ERAU guaranty: Zero to hero.:rolleyes:

VIRotate
05-16-2018, 11:27 AM
When I saw the video, this came to mind
https://i.imgur.com/P0Xb5CO.jpg

Isn’t this the one where the CA and FO switched seats?

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 11:30 AM
I'd be willing to bet that once ABC saw how uneventful the emergency descent was, they asked her to perform some "exciting" maneuvers that they used to spice up this ridiculous 3 minute video.


IF that happened, she should have exercised professional judgement and politely declined to embarrass the profession. Go back to the 172 and stop playing in the sim, you might damage it.

BeatNavy
05-16-2018, 11:30 AM
Isn’t this the one where the CA and FO switched seats?

No. Female mesa pilot. 7 kt winds. She upgraded a month or two after that. Went to a legacy a year or so later.

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 11:38 AM
Not going to comment on the rest of the airmanship. However...

Depending on conditions, 100 ft is very plausible in a 200. Many 200 pilots pull power way too late and land much flatter than they should be. A pretty normal technique is to begin pulling power at 100 ft and vary speed of reduction based on energy state. Power should normally be at idle by 50 ft in that plane. Depending on energy and winds, straight to idle at 100 ft does happen, especially depending on approach speed being flown (whether the operator flies at ref or ref+5 or more).

"Sink Rate" probably isn't the hint that you should pull power early.

I have thousands of hours in that thing, and the stars would have to line up right. I could do it, but frankly there were things I could do with that airplane which in the end I chose not to because it set a bad example for the FO. Stable approach and all that. When I was coming up, teaching FO's to maximize performance was part of the drill... today it's probably best just to teach them basic SOP and respect for the envelope they've been given. They won't have time to master their RJ before they upgrade.

WHACKMASTER
05-16-2018, 11:48 AM
Knock it off everyone! She starts at UAL next month. :D

Baradium
05-16-2018, 11:48 AM
"Sink Rate" probably isn't the hint that you should pull power early.

I have thousands of hours in that thing, and the stars would have to line up right. I could do it, but frankly there were things I could do with that airplane which in the end I chose not to because it set a bad example for the FO. Stable approach and all that. When I was coming up, teaching FO's to maximize performance was part of the drill... today it's probably best just to teach them basic SOP and respect for the envelope they've been given. They won't have time to master their RJ before they upgrade.

Sorry, I watched I without audio. That said, I couldn't really tell, can you tell what flap setting she was using? I seem to recall zero flap landings can easily result in nuisance sink rate calls. A flap 20 landing for single engine shouldn't have though.

I also have thousands of hours of CRJ-200 time FWIW. In my experience, flat landings was much more of a problem than pulling power early with people flying that plane.

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 11:51 AM
Sorry, I watched I without audio. That said, I couldn't really tell, can you tell what flap setting she was using? I seem to recall zero flap landings can easily result in nuisance sink rate calls. A flap 20 landing for single engine shouldn't have though.

I also have thousands of hours of CRJ-200 time FWIW. In my experience, flat landings was much more of a problem than pulling power early with people flying that plane.


I didn't notice flaps, but it *should* have been 20.

Sliceback
05-16-2018, 12:25 PM
Check out the :54 second mark. You need to pause and take a screen shot - nose low and significant left bank angle, looks like a high altitude stall might have happened.

Also check out the 1:47 ish screen shot - PAPI is all white. That’s where the “sink rate” comes from.

BobbyLeeSwagger
05-16-2018, 12:26 PM
Sounds like you guys have the necessary data to make an air disasters episode on this sim flight :D

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 12:31 PM
She treats landing and flying the RJ like how that SWA CA did burying her 73's nose into LGA.

319wisperer
05-16-2018, 12:47 PM
While I’m not sure what the stick shaker was about (increased stall speed with speed brake extension when she was already close to min speed for ac config?), picking her apart over a “sink rate”, possible early reduction to idle thrust, and manually extending ground spoilers? Slow day on APC I’m guessing. Cast the first stone if you’ve never gotten a “sink rate” or similar annunciation when flying single engine, single pilot, and explaining what’s going on in lay terms to a reporter. Knowing nothing about the crj, she looks like she did a pretty good job to me and I’m not even sure she flies reqularly.

I know nothing of this woman’s background but she is good looking, there were plenty of daunting chimes, alerts, and synthetic voices yet she landed safely- sensational in 60 minutes eyes.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 01:00 PM
Even Airline Pilot Memes got in on this
https://www.facebook.com/airlinepilotmemes/videos/2093617924252018/

WesternSkies
05-16-2018, 01:10 PM
Meh, the general flying public have no idea what they saw or heard and I’ve done worse, I give her a pass.

The news called me to talk about the “miracle on the Hudson”, No was my answer and it should have been hers too.

SilentLurker
05-16-2018, 01:14 PM
For the wrong airplane though... I guess I just don't understand why they went to ERAU in the first place to watch a Cessna instructor play around in a CRJ sim when there's no shortage of 737 sims or pilots that are actually qualified to fly airliners.



First of all. NEVER, EVER PULL THE SPOILERS LIKE SHE DID AT THE END. It’s not a Speed Brake.

2nd. Media have treated Airlines really badly! 95% of their stories are negative publicity and negative imagery for the Airlines.

Not even Southwest Airlines, the focus would allow them the media into their sims. Smart decision for good reason:

Reporters might say say one thing, but once it gets into the editing room and in the producers hand! Good your SOL! Video above is the exact reason Airlines denied the media’s request many times over!

SilentLurker
05-16-2018, 01:18 PM
IF that happened, she should have exercised professional judgement and politely declined to embarrass the profession. Go back to the 172 and stop playing in the sim, you might damage it.



The speed and intensity in which she extended the spoilers on the ground made me CRINGE [emoji37]! Surprised the handle did not brake-off, would love if she handed it to the reporter on camera saying “oops, here ya go..” awkwardly.

minivan
05-16-2018, 01:25 PM
For the wrong airplane though... I guess I just don't understand why they went to ERAU in the first place to watch a Cessna instructor play around in a CRJ sim when there's no shortage of 737 sims or pilots that are actually qualified to fly airliners.

What do they say? The best of the worst? Something like that.:D

Aquaticus
05-16-2018, 01:39 PM
She couldn't even be bothered to iron her shirt before going on national tv.

Truthanator
05-16-2018, 01:54 PM
The pilot in this video was a legacy pilot furloughed after 9/11 who didn't come back to flying. She's a professor in the college and hasn't touched a jet in almost 20 years. She's a brilliant and fantastic professor. 20/20 should have gone to an airline or sim facility and found a 737 instructor.

And now we know why.

TCASTESTOK
05-16-2018, 01:57 PM
And now we know why.

As the saying goes, those who can't do teach" Case in point.

PowderFinger
05-16-2018, 02:38 PM
Harvard of the Sky!

They are the best.

ropestart
05-16-2018, 03:06 PM
It's all good, as long as she passes the Hogan. Call the United recruiters.

Sad and very true!

wrxpilot
05-16-2018, 03:30 PM
Meh, the general flying public have no idea what they saw or heard and I’ve done worse, I give her a pass.

The news called me to talk about the “miracle on the Hudson”, No was my answer and it should have been hers too.

You’ve done worse than unintentionally get the shaker and stall warning at altitude? Yikes. O

Beech Dude
05-16-2018, 03:44 PM
As said earlier, hopefully this was jazzed up a bit for the camera. If not, wow. Sink rate, 4 white, and her aim point looked like it was at midfield. Leeroy Jenkins comes to mind more than professional and competent aircrew member.

All In
05-16-2018, 04:42 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Mzz7I-D0Nw8/TCokqu7HZ8I/AAAAAAAAAxs/5X_gKJIZYmw/s1600/TM.jpg

Even Airline Pilot Memes got in on this
https://www.facebook.com/airlinepilo...3617924252018/

webecheck
05-16-2018, 04:55 PM
She couldn't even be bothered to iron her shirt before going on national tv.
So true, and how was that not everyone’s first observation. Lol

John Carr
05-16-2018, 05:04 PM
She couldn't even be bothered to iron her shirt before going on national tv.

True, another professional;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgB9TWMEIKY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg-1VMYhOXs

Probably a better pilot though.

SactisbonesBJ
05-16-2018, 05:06 PM
Another stellar diversity hire

WesternSkies
05-16-2018, 05:13 PM
You’ve done worse than unintentionally get the shaker and stall warning at altitude? Yikes. O

I’ve even unintentionally red screened the sim! YIKES!!

OOfff
05-16-2018, 07:09 PM
Damn, everyone is so eager to tear down others

Sliceback
05-16-2018, 07:11 PM
You’ve done worse than unintentionally get the shaker and stall warning at altitude? Yikes. O

Or four whites on the PAPI on a single engine approach with a ‘sink rate, sink rate’ call out on a vanilla day/configuration?

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 07:44 PM
Damn, everyone is so eager to tear down others

This person is a CFI wearing a pilot costume, claiming to represent all of us in the national media, and doing a very poor job of it. She's getting off light.

OOfff
05-16-2018, 08:14 PM
This person is a CFI wearing a pilot costume, claiming to represent all of us in the national media, and doing a very poor job of it. She's getting off light.

Oh, I must have missed the part where she says “I represent all airline pilots.” Perhaps I need to watch again.

rickair7777
05-16-2018, 08:19 PM
Oh, I must have missed the part where she says “I represent all airline pilots.” Perhaps I need to watch again.

Really?

Well the good news is most of the audience won't know the difference, or care.

at6d
05-16-2018, 10:34 PM
LOL a Timmay reference!

A Squared
05-17-2018, 12:03 AM
Ya but she was photogenic, ...


You're apparently using a different definition of the word photogenic than the one I'm familiar with.

ShyGuy
05-17-2018, 01:22 AM
No. Female mesa pilot. 7 kt winds. She upgraded a month or two after that. Went to a legacy a year or so later.

Seriously? :eek:

A Squared
05-17-2018, 01:28 AM
Seriously? :eek:


No, not seriously. The winds weren't 7 kts, they were 04VRB ;)



https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=180052

baseball
05-17-2018, 01:29 AM
someone from her pilot union should have "QC'd" this video before it was let out to the rest of the world to view.

Or, maybe someone with a background in aviation safety, etc. It's pretty embarrassing to her and to the profession as a whole.

mkfmbos
05-17-2018, 03:27 AM
For the wrong airplane though... I guess I just don't understand why they went to ERAU in the first place to watch a Cessna instructor play around in a CRJ sim when there's no shortage of 737 sims or pilots that are actually qualified to fly airliners.

Because those guys all said HELL NO!

sflpilot
05-17-2018, 04:05 AM
I’m not watching the video because I already know how rediculous that place is. Attending and graduating from riddle is something I will always regret. Mistakes of my youth.

Learflyer
05-17-2018, 04:07 AM
Are these the same broads that did the whole flight with gear/flaps down? :p:p:p:

crxpilot
05-17-2018, 04:53 AM
Man these ERAU people need to stay away from the media. I just found this other set of interviews done not too long ago as well. Thank goodness the general public has no idea just how bad this makes all of us look!

https://youtu.be/7PFv5-M0tDM

AboveMins
05-17-2018, 04:54 AM
What's with her slamming boards on touchdown? I don't recall losing ground lift dump on the CRJ when single engine. Granted, it's been like 15 years since I've touched one, so my CRJ-fu is weak.

PermaFo
05-17-2018, 05:12 AM
What's with her slamming boards on touchdown? I don't recall losing ground lift dump on the CRJ when single engine. Granted, it's been like 15 years since I've touched one, so my CRJ-fu is weak.

Look at ED2 and the boards had already auto-deployed... either to add drama or that veteran sure does know the systems!

captjns
05-17-2018, 05:14 AM
Another self serving miscreant who first and foremost denigrated the profession by:

1. Attemptings to reinact an incident without pre-planning, in an aircraft type other than the one involved in the absence of a qualified crewmember occupying the right seat. Recreating and opining about any incident before the completion of the investigation of the the NTSB containing full details of the investigation??? Really?

2. No simulator instructor to execute the incident, at the onset, with the exact flight conditions and time.

3. A demonstration of poor basic flying skillls necessary to hold an ATP let alone a PPL.

4. I hope that this is not “Proof Positive” of the quality of a graduate of ERAU which some nick name the institution as “Pay to Play University”.

What a pity the direction some so-called professional pilots choose:mad:.

GogglesPisano
05-17-2018, 05:28 AM
You're apparently using a different definition of the word photogenic than the one I'm familiar with.

20/20 -- the TV "investigative journalism" show where one of the episodes is titled, "Undercover Mother."

This allows the target audience to feel empowered. So, she's photogenic (and politically correct) for the intended viewers.

Al Czervik
05-17-2018, 05:31 AM
That’s what my descents look like when I’m trying to figure out WTH Vnav is doing.

Airhoss
05-17-2018, 06:00 AM
Harvard of the Sky!

If that’s true, is Harvard the Embry Riddle of the ground?

AboveMins
05-17-2018, 06:14 AM
Look at ED2 and the boards had already auto-deployed... either to add drama or that veteran sure does know the systems!

Haha, I just noticed that before reading your reply.

DownInPetaluma
05-17-2018, 06:59 AM
The stall she was fighting probably ended up a red-screen. How much splicing did that editing room do! And who signed off on that. Questions you grads ought to be asking.

Arthur Vandelay
05-17-2018, 07:19 AM
Guys! Chill! The target audience for this video was not professional pilots. We don't need to be shown how chaotic the event would have been in real life. Please carry on defending the profession though...

2StgTurbine
05-17-2018, 07:24 AM
She was about 1,000 feet above the runway at 1.5 miles when they first showed her lined up with the runway. I don't know how she could have gotten it down unless someone put her on position freeze. And the rapid last minute flare would have been painful if the motion was on.

prex8390
05-17-2018, 08:34 AM
Guys! Chill! The target audience for this video was not professional pilots. We don't need to be shown how chaotic the event would have been in real life. Please carry on defending the profession though...
Exactly. The target audience is people that before every fight they take go on Reddit and ask if it’s safe to fly. I’m guessing the cfi showed abc what it probably looked like. The Cameraman and reporter probably looked at each and thought well that was boring and uneventful but we need to make this a better story. Can you just fly the sim like a maniac instead so our viewers will keep tuning in for our vital info on how dangerous planes are. I’ll give her half Credit because I can’t attest to what the conversation was before the sim event took place. This is the media after all. I’m sure she was told go crazy for dramatic effect. If not, holy cow that was bad.

captjns
05-17-2018, 08:40 AM
Guys! Chill! The target audience for this video was not professional pilots. We don't need to be shown how chaotic the event would have been in real life. Please carry on defending the profession though...

Be that as it may... it was conduct unbecoming of an individual, purporting to be a professional pilot, in order to get their 15 minutes of fame. Just my 2 rupees.

fadec
05-17-2018, 08:58 AM
Guys relax. ABC is a sexist news organization who picked her specifically to represent female pilots. If you're a privileged male she doesn't even represent you.

WHACKMASTER
05-17-2018, 12:23 PM
Guys relax. ABC is a sexist news organization who picked her specifically to represent female pilots. If you're a privileged male she doesn't even represent you.

Thank goodness....

bizzlepilot
05-17-2018, 04:40 PM
Be that as it may... it was conduct unbecoming of an individual, purporting to be a professional pilot, in order to get their 15 minutes of fame. Just my 2 rupees.

Agreed. And if she is not current/capable to fly that sim she should have at least deferred to someone who is. She got her 15 minutes of fame (or infamy), maybe not exactly what she wanted but she got something out of it.

Happyflyer
05-17-2018, 07:47 PM
Guys relax. ABC is a sexist news organization who picked her specifically to represent female pilots. If you're a privileged male she doesn't even represent you.

I think your right, but the just to be Captain obvious the SW captain was also a girl, so maybe...

Happyflyer
05-17-2018, 07:58 PM
It was a CRJ 200, and she sucked. She finally stowed the boards after stalling a few times. 100 feet is too high for idle even in a 200, if your energy state is that jacked you need to go around. But she probably had the red screen disabled.

Must be a reason she works for riddle. Tami Jo probably threw up a little bit.

Na, half flaps,single engine, 150-160 to the threshold, I could cut it at 100' and make it.
But yes she was poorly rehearsed, scary part is this sim video is probably what half or more real life flights would look like if it happened unsuspectingly.

Happyflyer
05-17-2018, 08:04 PM
What's with her slamming boards on touchdown? I don't recall losing ground lift dump on the CRJ when single engine. Granted, it's been like 15 years since I've touched one, so my CRJ-fu is weak.

Reading in here she has a background in a Lear, possibly other cooperate plans and in some older corporate jets the PM does activate the flight spoilers on landing. There were no computers in initiate a "ground lift dump".
Her PM was a reporter, so she was basically single pilot in a crewd airplane during an actual emergency, not a LOFT trivial item. She also likely never worked for a regional and therefore never went through IOE on the CRJ.
Lot of guys upset on here how well someone handles an emergency single pilot in a plane their not line standard on, and likely have never flown in real life.
Now her judgment to accept the assignment for 20/20 knowing these things speaks far more than a rusty performance.

Space Ranger
05-17-2018, 08:11 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Mzz7I-D0Nw8/TCokqu7HZ8I/AAAAAAAAAxs/5X_gKJIZYmw/s1600/TM.jpg

Even Airline Pilot Memes got in on this
https://www.facebook.com/airlinepilo...3617924252018/

LOL you win this thread, sir.

2StgTurbine
05-17-2018, 08:55 PM
Lot of guys upset on here how well someone handles an emergency single pilot in a plane their not line standard on, and likely have never flown in real life.

I just went through training on an aircraft I never flown before and none of my sim rides looked that bad. My sim partner hadn't flown in a year and none of his flights looked anything like that. She "failed" the engine herself and didn't actually run a checklist. What she attempted to do was flight idle descent in VFR conditions and failed miserably at it.

The embarrassing thing is Embry Riddle could have prevented this by giving her a couple hours in the sim prior to ABC showing up.

StaticOnHF
05-18-2018, 04:40 AM
The embarrassing thing is Embry Riddle could have prevented this by giving her a couple hours in the sim prior to ABC showing up.

I agree with this. I took one of her classes many years ago and she was an decent and really fair professor from my recollection but I do not believe she has even touched a jet in probably 15+ years. I believe she was on the DC10 with Hawaiian before she got furloughed so it's been a while...I dont know why they didn't choose one of the more current pilots (there are definitely more current female pilots there if they needed one) to do this...Shocking really.

Han Solo
05-18-2018, 05:02 AM
This story says more about the news being offered to the viewers than it does about the pilot or ERAU. As professional pilots this story is right in our wheel house and we can see how effing stupid the entire thing is. Almost all the news is a variation of this story, but we aren't experts in those fields so we can't call them out on it. Just remember that when you get all fired up over XXX story == it's probably a load of BS.

SonicFlyer
05-18-2018, 06:54 AM
https://scontent-mia3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/32683111_2094090894204721_3606740014207074304_o.pn g?_nc_cat=0&oh=6653d13766ddedf400cd42ba2d834088&oe=5B91E619

CBreezy
05-18-2018, 07:09 AM
This story says more about the news being offered to the viewers than it does about the pilot or ERAU. As professional pilots this story is right in our wheel house and we can see how effing stupid the entire thing is. Almost all the news is a variation of this story, but we aren't experts in those fields so we can't call them out on it. Just remember that when you get all fired up over XXX story == it's probably a load of BS.

Not all news is hack journalism or feel good click bait. You have to be intelligent enough to tell the difference.

Han Solo
05-18-2018, 07:26 AM
Not all news is hack journalism or feel good click bait. You have to be intelligent enough to tell the difference.

Unfortunately I'm not that smart. I'm not an expert in many subjects; but in those where I am, I usually find the news wrong, incomplete, or slanted. It would be foolish to convince myself I'm some sort of renaissance man who knows about everything. So, knowing that the news is so grossly incompetent in areas where I can competently judge I have to assume that their quality of reporting is of a similar quality in areas where I'm not competent enough to judge for myself.

CBreezy
05-18-2018, 07:41 AM
Unfortunately I'm not that smart. I'm not an expert in many subjects; but in those where I am, I usually find the news wrong, incomplete, or slanted. It would be foolish to convince myself I'm some sort of renaissance man who knows about everything. So, knowing that the news is so grossly incompetent in areas where I can competently judge I have to assume that their quality of reporting is of a similar quality in areas where I'm not competent enough to judge for myself.

Probably should stay away from cable news sources and obvious click bait. Get your news from a variety of reputable news organizations with little slant and from both sides of the issue. If it sounds too good to be true or it makes you angry, it's probably not the whole story. You don't have to be an expert if the article quotes actual experts. No one in their right mind should trust a teacher at ERAU without something like "with 20 years of airline flying experience and 10 in 737s."

WesternSkies
05-18-2018, 08:23 AM
This story says more about the news being offered to the viewers than it does about the pilot or ERAU. As professional pilots this story is right in our wheel house and we can see how effing stupid the entire thing is. Almost all the news is a variation of this story, but we aren't experts in those fields so we can't call them out on it. Just remember that when you get all fired up over XXX story == it's probably a load of BS.

Unfortunately true.
I used to listen to “stuff you should know”, then they talked about stuff I know and wondered if all the crap they were saying was that bad.

AboveMins
05-18-2018, 08:58 AM
Reading in here she has a background in a Lear, possibly other cooperate plans and in some older corporate jets the PM does activate the flight spoilers on landing. There were no computers in initiate a "ground lift dump".
Her PM was a reporter, so she was basically single pilot in a crewd airplane during an actual emergency, not a LOFT trivial item. She also likely never worked for a regional and therefore never went through IOE on the CRJ.
Lot of guys upset on here how well someone handles an emergency single pilot in a plane their not line standard on, and likely have never flown in real life.
Now her judgment to accept the assignment for 20/20 knowing these things speaks far more than a rusty performance.

So, what you're saying is that the whole piece was sensationalism... to which, I agree. It was a very poor representation of what happened on that ill fated SWA flight, but that doesn't surprise me considering the media cares more about ratings than getting their facts straight.

CoefficientX
05-18-2018, 09:02 AM
Not all news is hack journalism or feel good click bait. You have to be intelligent enough to tell the difference.

We are intelligent enough to tell the difference. The point being made is we professional pilots essentially have a PhD in aviation, we are highly specialized and know it intimately. When we see aviation stories with gross errors coming from “experts” it stands to reason that other highly technical stories on subjects we aren’t familiar with contain gross errors as well.

Scary Mary Schiavo comes to mind. She has a long resume tied to aviation therefore giving the uninformed viewer she really knows her stuff. I cringe at the garbage that comes out of her mouth when interviewed about an airline accident.

cactusflyer
05-18-2018, 11:29 AM
"Look, we actually do have women here!"- Embry Riddle

Happyflyer
05-18-2018, 01:45 PM
Rumor mill tells me that the 2016 SW flight banked 90 degrees before recovery, she should have went with that incident. Guess no one really cares what happened since no one died.

123494
05-18-2018, 04:14 PM
I agree with this. I took one of her classes many years ago and she was an decent and really fair professor from my recollection but I do not believe she has even touched a jet in probably 15+ years. I believe she was on the DC10 with Hawaiian before she got furloughed so it's been a while...I dont know why they didn't choose one of the more current pilots (there are definitely more current female pilots there if they needed one) to do this...Shocking really.

Looks to me she spent a little too much time on her knees than in the cockpits of the DC’s

Sorry I couldn’t resist the rhyme...

GogglesPisano
05-18-2018, 04:34 PM
Unfortunately true.
I used to listen to “stuff you should know”, then they talked about stuff I know and wondered if all the crap they were saying was that bad.

I gave up on them after their podcast on "How Air Traffic Control Works."

echelon
05-18-2018, 05:12 PM
Looks to me she spent a little too much time on her knees than in the cockpits of the DC’s

Sorry I couldn’t resist the rhyme...

Good grief that was tasteless, even by my very low standards :rolleyes:

bizzlepilot
05-18-2018, 06:15 PM
This story says more about the news being offered to the viewers than it does about the pilot or ERAU. As professional pilots this story is right in our wheel house and we can see how effing stupid the entire thing is. Almost all the news is a variation of this story, but we aren't experts in those fields so we can't call them out on it. Just remember that when you get all fired up over XXX story == it's probably a load of BS.

Great point, completely valid.

Stratapilot
05-18-2018, 09:13 PM
If you’re a professional pilot and you let and emergency situation degrade to the point where:

A) You get stick shaker activation. Twice.
B) It gets dramatic and exciting.
C) You’re glad you had your seatbelt on at the end of it.


You’re doing something wrong.

On another note. Way to go ERAU for doing exploiting a well handled emergency for the sake of a few minutes of media exposure. Looks like nothing has changed since I left.

snackysmores
05-18-2018, 09:46 PM
It looks like she demonstrated a stall for the reporter and they just edited that footage in during the engine out to make it look more interesting/scary.

Look at the EICAS during the stall, both engines look normal to me however the stall supposedly happens after the engine goes out.

Sneaky editing, unfortunately she gets made to look like an idiot, although what do I know maybe she is.

Swedish Blender
05-18-2018, 11:38 PM
So they demonstrated a secondary stall to go with the first one?

I've lost 3 motors flying 121 jets and had a rapid D as well.

Don't ever remember taking off my head set to put on the O2 mask or seemingly panicking upon losing an engine.

You should really be stable on SE as to not risk a go around and she got "sink rate".

I'm embarrassed for Riddle.

DeadHead
05-19-2018, 12:15 AM
I've never flown the CRJ, but the one thing that stood out to me was that she was flying an aircraft, that I thought required a minimum crew of two, as a single-pilot emergency.

I think if I, or any rational pilot, were asked to do a filmed simulator session, without the minimum FAA required crew, for a major news outlet, immediately declining would be obvious..

Why does she turn and ask for the emergency checklist? Who is she talking to?

Learflyer
05-19-2018, 05:04 AM
So they demonstrated a secondary stall to go with the first one?

I've lost 3 motors flying 121 jets and had a rapid D as well.

Don't ever remember taking off my head set to put on the O2 mask or seemingly panicking upon losing an engine.

You should really be stable on SE as to not risk a go around and she got "sink rate".

I'm embarrassed for Riddle.

Not out of the ordinary. Depends on the type of mask and many other factors.

RI830
05-19-2018, 05:33 AM
LOL a Timmay reference!

https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-martins-80a02968/


Timmmay disappeared to africa after his Eagle ALPA stunt.
Maybe this lady will too

VIRotate
05-19-2018, 09:48 AM
It looks like she demonstrated a stall for the reporter and they just edited that footage in during the engine out to make it look more interesting/scary.

Look at the EICAS during the stall, both engines look normal to me however the stall supposedly happens after the engine goes out.

Sneaky editing, unfortunately she gets made to look like an idiot, although what do I know maybe she is.

She also demonstrated flaring with both hands on the yoke, doing a space shuttle approach while getting sink rate callouts. I remember those manuevers on my checkride. Good times.

NeverHome
05-19-2018, 11:39 AM
Never flown a CRJ, maybe the video was edited for drama, maybe this lady was painted into a bad corner, maybe.

But I will say that image is everything. We take certain actions to keep from causing problems. Not going to a liquor store in uniform (though if you do, tell em you work for someone else lol). Not using profanity in the terminal (usually). Not talking about poor mx and crashes and scary stories in front of passengers.

Why? Bad image, hurts us all collectively. ERAU should never have let this happen. As for the “pilot”, all I can say is: not a great example of judgment.

On the other hand, maybe the cheap bas t ar ds of the passengers will recognize that we work hard, sometimes in unforgiving situations, are not bus drivers, and deserve a fair compensation. :cool:

snackysmores
05-19-2018, 12:57 PM
She also demonstrated flaring with both hands on the yoke, doing a space shuttle approach while getting sink rate callouts. I remember those manuevers on my checkride. Good times.

Yeah that was rather cringy, I'm just pointing out the editing they did.

CBreezy
05-19-2018, 01:02 PM
Yeah that was rather cringy, I'm just pointing out the editing they did.

First thing, you're always on the record. If you are there to talk about what happened on that flight, don't go off doing random maneuvers that non-pilots aren't going to understand. Stick to the script. Do only a simulation of the event. Don't try and show off.

Happyflyer
05-19-2018, 02:06 PM
She also demonstrated flaring with both hands on the yoke, doing a space shuttle approach while getting sink rate callouts. I remember those manuevers on my checkride. Good times.

Sinkrate call is not uncommon in that plane with one engine,half flaps and a high approach speed.

Happyflyer
05-19-2018, 02:14 PM
She also demonstrated flaring with both hands on the yoke, doing a space shuttle approach while getting sink rate callouts. I remember those manuevers on my checkride. Good times.

I heard of sim guys giving girls runaway trim to make sure they can do it.

jcountry
05-19-2018, 05:39 PM
Never flown a CRJ, maybe the video was edited for drama, maybe this lady was painted into a bad corner, maybe.

But I will say that image is everything. We take certain actions to keep from causing problems. Not going to a liquor store in uniform (though if you do, tell em you work for someone else lol). Not using profanity in the terminal (usually). Not talking about poor mx and crashes and scary stories in front of passengers.

Why? Bad image, hurts us all collectively. ERAU should never have let this happen. As for the “pilot”, all I can say is: not a great example of judgment.

On the other hand, maybe the cheap bas t ar ds of the passengers will recognize that we work hard, sometimes in unforgiving situations, are not bus drivers, and deserve a fair compensation. :cool:

I have 12000 hours in that plane.

Stalling at the start of the emergency descent is pretty bad.

IDK. Maybe the TV folks told her to make it dramatic, and that’s what she came up with.... Looked pretty bad.

The general public has no idea what they are looking at, but for those of us who are familiar, that looked like some pretty poor airmanship all around.

NeverHome
05-19-2018, 05:45 PM
I have 12000 hours in that plane.

Stalling at the start of the emergency descent is pretty bad.

IDK. Maybe the TV folks told her to make it dramatic, and that’s what she came up with.... Looked pretty bad.

The general public has no idea what they are looking at, but for those of us who are familiar, that looked like some pretty poor airmanship all around.

Don’t get me wrong, it certainly looked bad! That of course is my point. It looked so bad that it made those of us that take pride in our skills and knowledge look bad. That is no bueno. No matter if she was that crappy at flying or it was dramatized, it looked bad.

FMGEC
05-19-2018, 07:43 PM
First point- it’s a bad video, and ERAU and the instructor should not have accepted the request for a sim demo.

Having said that, it’s fairly obvious to me that the engine failure demo and stall were 2 separate demo’s spliced together.
The engine failure demo has her wearing the mask, with the #1 engine gauges showing red, and she has the #1 power lever idle.
Then they cut to the Jumpseat camera with the stall indications, and she’s not wearing the mask, both engines show they are running, and both power levers are being used.
Two completely separate events made to look more remarkable than they actually were. They are not related.

Classic news media sensationalism. All the more reason why ERAU should have passed on the request.

DENpilot
05-20-2018, 12:00 AM
Having said that, it’s fairly obvious to me that the engine failure demo and stall were 2 separate demo’s spliced together.

Are you an idiot? Do you have no cognitive ability to follow a sequence of events?


The engine failure demo has her wearing the mask, with the #1 engine gauges showing red, and she has the #1 power lever idle.

Uh, not it is not at idle. Do I need to draw pictures for you of what the video shows??? The gauge is at red, and I will give you in the green on the next take, but the change in ITT can be explained if you have half a brain.


Then they cut to the Jumpseat camera with the stall indications, and she’s not wearing the mask, both engines show they are running, and both power levers are being used.

Again, this goes back to your inability to follow a sequence of events. She clearly has the mask on!!! Idiot. Look at where her headset is... it's around her neck.


Two completely separate events made to look more remarkable than they actually were. They are not related.

Classic news media sensationalism. All the more reason why ERAU should have passed on the request.

Quit being so butt-hurt. You are clearly an ERAU grad that has run to his safe-space over this.....

TheFly
05-20-2018, 03:01 AM
Not going to comment on the rest of the airmanship. However...

Depending on conditions, 100 ft is very plausible in a 200. Many 200 pilots pull power way too late and land much flatter than they should be. A pretty normal technique is to begin pulling power at 100 ft and vary speed of reduction based on energy state. Power should normally be at idle by 50 ft in that plane. Depending on energy and winds, straight to idle at 100 ft does happen, especially depending on approach speed being flown (whether the operator flies at ref or ref+5 or more).
Two engines yes. Single engine, no. Ask me how I know....

Han Solo
05-20-2018, 06:15 AM
Are you an idiot? Do you have no cognitive ability to follow a sequence of events?



Uh, not it is not at idle. Do I need to draw pictures for you of what the video shows??? The gauge is at red, and I will give you in the green on the next take, but the change in ITT can be explained if you have half a brain.



Again, this goes back to your inability to follow a sequence of events. She clearly has the mask on!!! Idiot. Look at where her headset is... it's around her neck.



Quit being so butt-hurt. You are clearly an ERAU grad that has run to his safe-space over this.....

Would you ever talk to another human this way in person?

PowderFinger
05-20-2018, 07:29 AM
Would you ever talk to another human this way in person?

Over the years I have run in to only one or two of these Lower Orfices ... Sadly, the only way to deal with them in a similar method ... I am thankful for their existence as they make it easier to appreciate the many others.

wrxpilot
05-20-2018, 08:55 AM
Would you ever talk to another human this way in person?

Have you seen his other posts? I think there’s something wrong with him. Super angry and judgmental dude.

GogglesPisano
05-20-2018, 09:21 AM
Have you seen his other posts? I think there’s something wrong with him. Super angry and judgmental dude.

I wonder how he talks to his loved ones.

wrxpilot
05-20-2018, 09:49 AM
I wonder how he talks to his loved ones.

Great question.

I just read his posts using the voice of Dwight Schrute. Usually makes more sense that way.

StrykerB21
05-20-2018, 11:23 AM
I love how the interviewer nervously brushed her hair when she was asked if she was glad to be wearing a seat belt.

takingmessages
05-20-2018, 12:59 PM
Two engines yes. Single engine, no. Ask me how I know....


I'll bite...
How do you know? :D
I don't fly airliners.
Yet... :cool:

A Squared
05-20-2018, 01:04 PM
I wonder how he talks to his loved ones.


Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence.

GogglesPisano
05-20-2018, 03:37 PM
Objection. Assuming facts not in evidence.

One can make an inference based on how he interacts with people on social media. And he may be perfectly fine with his loved ones.

As I said, I wonder.

Hetman
05-20-2018, 03:46 PM
Hey, DENpilot,

Life can be good if you allow it to be.

Deathwish
05-20-2018, 07:33 PM
Good grief that was tasteless, even by my very low standards :rolleyes:

That’s what she said...

RjsSuck
05-21-2018, 02:08 AM
wow shes a hack scab

VIRotate
05-21-2018, 06:17 AM
wow shes a hack scab

Really a scab? She crossed the line somewhere?

E175 Driver
05-21-2018, 10:26 AM
We are the best pilots out there. No doubt about it.

Airhoss
05-21-2018, 11:24 AM
We are the best pilots out there. No doubt about it.

Sung to the tune of the “Green Beret!”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m5WJJVSE_BE

Into to royal blue sky, climbing to dizzying heights, his/her/ non gender specific they’s trusty Cessna 172 claws it’s way into the sky. Swirling amongst the white vaporous clouds, gelled hair stands on end, a flight crew bag sit proudly and loyally at they’re side. A check list so long it would make a shuttle commander blush, gently flapping in the wind. The myth, the legend, the Riddle pilot, more than a boy or a girl or a non gender specific person, guiding his/her/they, trusty winged steed through the sky. More than a fashion statement, more than a mere mortal. A boy or a girl or a non gender specific they, that we can all look up to and learn from. He’s/she’s/ they are not just an insignificant Cessna herder he’s/ she’s/ they are an Eagle from ERAU!

Repeat chorus...

RI830
05-21-2018, 01:53 PM
The Golden Egos of ERAU. Such an embarrassment to the good people who went there.

Happyflyer
05-21-2018, 03:47 PM
One can make an inference based on how he interacts with people on social media. And he may be perfectly fine with his loved ones.

As I said, I wonder.

I think he's saying he doesn't have loved ones, and assumed he he did.

WhisperJet
05-21-2018, 06:54 PM
Looks like Riddle has removed all evidence of the video.

TCASTESTOK
05-21-2018, 08:08 PM
Looks like Riddle has removed all evidence of the video.
Most likely to save themselves the embarrassment. I could see a bunch of riddlers going for interviews and the pilots being like "ok so if we hire you, are you going to fly our aircraft like that ERAU instructor who embarrassed herself in a crj sim?"

DeadHead
05-22-2018, 01:22 AM
Looks like Riddle has removed all evidence of the video.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/pilots-safely-landed-deadly-southwest-013226413.html

Unfortunately for erau, nothing ever leaves the internet.

Perhaps all parties involved should’ve considered that before signing up for this story.

Bellanca
05-22-2018, 04:05 PM
Here's my theory of what happened behind the scenes:

20/20 wanted to do this at an actual airline or FSI, Airline/FSI wouldn't do it for fear of negative publicity or would charge $$$. ERAU figured, we'll get some free publicity for our 'excellent' program.

ERAU found a token faculty member that kind of looks like Tammi Jo that had been out of the cockpit for decade or two, and put her up to playing Tammi Jo for the day. As someone who clearly doesn't do this on a regular basis, she screwed up some basic stuff.

Also, the emergency descent itself was probably boring, and 20/20 probably wanted to see some other "what if" scenarios. They spliced all of the dramatic/exciting bits of an hour+ in the sim into this 30-40 second 'emergency' portion of their 3 minute news story. The end product is terrible and cringeworthy, but with all of the cuts in the footage, it is impossible to know what the unedited looks like at all.

ERAU looks like a laughing stock, but they got some free publicity out of it. Highschool juniors and seniors will still line up to pay $250,000 to learn to fly a plane. ERAU gets its money and that's all that matters to them.

Embarassment to the industry? Maybe. It's such a chaotic $h***show that it will probably scare help scare the general public away from supporting any single pilot initiatives that factions within the industry would like to see. That's a good thing for us at least. Honestly, the last thing we really want is for the general public to see an engine failure and emergency descent and think "that was easy, I bet the autopilot could just do it".

sjflyer
05-22-2018, 07:05 PM
Does anyone have a working link?

rickair7777
05-22-2018, 07:06 PM
Does anyone have a working link?


https://www.yahoo.com/news/pilots-safely-landed-deadly-southwest-013226413.html

CaptCoolHand
05-23-2018, 08:29 AM
Does anyone have a working link?

https://youtu.be/xE1rE2vxUyM

CaptCoolHand
05-23-2018, 08:43 AM
But really... they should have just played this

https://youtu.be/Lg73GKm7GgI

Fr8Thrust
05-23-2018, 04:02 PM
A high-altitude stall is one hell of a way to descend fast! :eek:

Crazy Canuck
05-25-2018, 04:04 AM
Perhaps its just my humility, but as an eagle grad I couldn't give two hoots about her, nor do I think she represents me in anyway. I NEVER would wear 3 bars in the left seat.

RadialGal
05-26-2018, 03:14 PM
I heard of sim guys giving girls runaway trim to make sure they can do it.


I've been given a runaway trim, did fine and I don't think I was given it because I was a girl (5' 11" and 125, so pretty skinny.) However, I do know one of the first female pilots ever hired by a Major and they gave her a manual reversion with an incapacitated Captain. She pulled it off, she's a groovy lady.

But I will ask again, why do we see so few TJ's and so many faux Amelia Earhart's and Global Gals? I know plenty of gals like me not asking for any extra help or favors; but we keep getting folks like them and now that Fatima chick that ended up contacting countless media outlets with a half true (at best) sob story; big surprise, she's at Delta and a poster child

Please guys, don't lump us all into the same category; some of us just want to fly and happen to have different plumbing.

I'll get off my soapbox now

RadialGal

Learflyer
05-26-2018, 03:58 PM
I've been given a runaway trim, did fine and I don't think I was given it because I was a girl (5' 11" and 125, so pretty skinny.) However, I do know one of the first female pilots ever hired by a Major and they gave her a manual reversion with an incapacitated Captain. She pulled it off, she's a groovy lady.

But I will ask again, why do we see so few TJ's and so many faux Amelia Earhart's and Global Gals? I know plenty of gals like me not asking for any extra help or favors; but we keep getting folks like them and now that Fatima chick that ended up contacting countless media outlets with a half true (at best) sob story; big surprise, she's at Delta and a poster child

Please guys, don't lump us all into the same category; some of us just want to fly and happen to have different plumbing.

I'll get off my soapbox now

RadialGal

What's the Fatima Chick story?

ShyGuy
05-26-2018, 09:38 PM
Google search Delta first officer Fatima and first link for LinkedIn.

A Squared
05-26-2018, 10:21 PM
Just google search Delta first officer Fatima and see the first link for LinkedIn.. Reads like a sob story, because Pakistan has female pilots in both the civilian airliners and military jets. Anytime someone says they were fired for being a female, and that America freed her shackles, well..........


She wasn't a pilot in the Pakistan Air Force, she learned to fly in the US. I don't have a lot of patience for women in the US howling about how the world is against them, but y'know what? I'm gonna give a woman in Pakistan the benefit of the doubt. They may have female pilots, and Pakistan did have a woman PM (right up till she was blown up) but Pakistan also has girls getting shot because they are requesting basic education for girls.

RadialGal
05-27-2018, 12:39 AM
Hey, as a Female Flier I will giver her props for joining the Pakistani Air Force. But she is a known liar at Express Jet and Delta.

In articles not long ago, while at Flight Safety, she claimed she flew jets. She even has pictures of her in a cockpit with a helmet on, in air claiming she was flying (she was a backseater on an test flight as a Mx observer.) She also had pics of herself standing on the jet, helmet in hand Top Gun style, like she had just finished a mission. There are other pictures of her in the cockpit, in a flight suit even though in later articles she claims she was never allowed to wear a flight suit or "even stand under the wing of a Jet."

She initially claims she was disavowed by her family, flew to the US alone and ended up at a gas station with 2 suitcases and no money and had to call 2 cabs and eventually 911 to get a ride to Flight Safety. Fabricated. She was totally supported by her wealthy parents the entire way. While at ExpressJet, she Interviewed with United and failed. She mad a big stink about it, wrote an inflated sob story to WAI and Delta, won a WAI Delta type and was promptly hired and made a Poster Child "see we hire minorities!"

I know some of the highest people in WAI and they were furious after they discovered this deception

Sorry to be B!tchy, stuff like this just drives me up the wall.

RadialGal

"you kids get the hell off my lawn!"

Packrat
05-27-2018, 02:58 AM
Sounds like a female Timmy Martins. Doesn't matter the gender. People like this don't deserve to hold an ATP for "good moral character."

jcountry
05-27-2018, 04:18 AM
Perhaps its just my humility, but as an eagle grad I couldn't give two hoots about her, nor do I think she represents me in anyway. I NEVER would wear 3 bars in the left seat.

Regardless of what you think, she absolutely does represent you.

The sim has ERAU all over it and they announced where they did this stupid sim recreation.

It was stupid for the school to do this. Of course, they probably thought they could pull it off without going full retard.

There are much better aviation schools around. Places where folks learn what they need to know without the irrational arrogance.

That video reflects poorly on the school. A lot of things reflect poorly on that school.

You boys ain’t fooling no one with your Harvard of the Sky stuff. Any of us who have seen 7 or 8 of your planes following the smart guy across Florida on cross countries know the score.

DeadHead
05-27-2018, 04:47 AM
Regardless of what you think, she absolutely does represent you.

The sim has ERAU all over it and they announced where they did this stupid sim recreation.

It was stupid for the school to do this. Of course, they probably thought they could pull it off without going full retard.

There are much better aviation schools around. Places where folks learn what they need to know without the irrational arrogance.

That video reflects poorly on the school. A lot of things reflect poorly on that school.

You boys ain’t fooling no one with your Harvard of the Sky stuff. Any of us who have seen 7 or 8 of your planes following the smart guy across Florida on cross countries know the score.

I think you’ve made the mistake that most of us Riddle Grads actually have any pride, loyalty, or school spirit from our ala mater.

I’m not sure most subscride to that “Harvard of the sky” garbage.

Then again, I’m sure some of us do.

Learflyer
05-27-2018, 04:56 AM
Well I hope DAL fires her for deception!

captjns
05-27-2018, 05:41 AM
Well I hope DAL fires her for deception!

DAL does have the where with all to pursue and take appropriate action regarding the statement and provision, above the signature line of the DAL App for Employment, regarding false statements being grounds for termination. That is after discussion and deliberation that such action would not draw negative attention:rolleyes:.

But then again, baring any statutes of limitations, if any, DAL may be compelled to scrutinize every application of every employee for mistastements of material facts.

This issue could give rise for all carriers to step up their due diligence to avoid similar embarrassment.

jcountry
05-27-2018, 05:47 AM
Hey, as a Female Flier I will giver her props for joining the Pakistani Air Force. But she is a known liar at Express Jet and Delta.

In articles not long ago, while at Flight Safety, she claimed she flew jets. She even has pictures of her in a cockpit with a helmet on, in air claiming she was flying (she was a backseater on an test flight as a Mx observer.) She also had pics of herself standing on the jet, helmet in hand Top Gun style, like she had just finished a mission. There are other pictures of her in the cockpit, in a flight suit even though in later articles she claims she was never allowed to wear a flight suit or "even stand under the wing of a Jet."

She initially claims she was disavowed by her family, flew to the US alone and ended up at a gas station with 2 suitcases and no money and had to call 2 cabs and eventually 911 to get a ride to Flight Safety. Fabricated. She was totally supported by her wealthy parents the entire way. While at ExpressJet, she Interviewed with United and failed. She mad a big stink about it, wrote an inflated sob story to WAI and Delta, won a WAI Delta type and was promptly hired and made a Poster Child "see we hire minorities!"

I know some of the highest people in WAI and they were furious after they discovered this deception

Sorry to be B!tchy, stuff like this just drives me up the wall.

RadialGal

"you kids get the hell off my lawn!"


That is very interesting.

Pakistan does have a female fighter pilot: and it ain't Fatima.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayesha_Farooq

In fact, this one became a fighter pilot in 2013, after our gal was already at Delta.

I found elsewhere that Fats called herself their first squadron commander. Very interesting.

jcountry
05-27-2018, 05:49 AM
DAL does have the where with all to pursue the provision of the DAL App for Employment, regarding false statements being grounds for termination... that is after discussion and deliberation that such action would not draw negative attention:rolleyes:. But then again, could be compelled to scrutinize every application of every employee for mistastements of material facts.



This one appears to be a real whopper. Some people should really dig into this sort of crap. A little self-aggrandizement on a resume is one thing, but this appears to be much more.

RJCaptin
05-27-2018, 06:18 AM
Well I hope DAL fires her for deception!
Negative. Double minority, nothing will happen.

GogglesPisano
05-27-2018, 06:37 AM
Every female I've worked with at flight schools, 135 and regionals have had much faster career advancement than the males I've known.

Funny how that works, "shackles" and male-dominated industry and all.

jcountry
05-27-2018, 06:37 AM
Negative. Double minority, nothing will happen.

Not until something happens.

If she lied about this kind of stuff, just imagine what that logbook looks like.

If an engine pops on a takeoff and the plane goes in the grass, the lawsuits start flying. And everyone’s background is scrutinized closely. Stuff like this can get expensive.

ShyGuy
05-27-2018, 07:41 AM
Ouch for her story....




https://rebellutionary.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/gender-gerrymander-a-tale-of-a-blackmailing-damsel/


:eek:

Learflyer
05-27-2018, 08:12 AM
Ouch for her story....









https://rebellutionary.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/gender-gerrymander-a-tale-of-a-blackmailing-damsel/





:eek:



Wow. She’s breaking quite a bit of Delta’s values there isn’t she?

wrxpilot
05-27-2018, 09:31 AM
Ouch for her story....




https://rebellutionary.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/gender-gerrymander-a-tale-of-a-blackmailing-damsel/


:eek:

Hmm. This all seems very similar to the infamous Tim Martins debacle. I bet we won’t see a similar outcome though.

A Squared
05-27-2018, 09:56 AM
Hey, as a Female Flier I will giver her props for joining the Pakistani Air Force. But she is a known liar at Express Jet and Delta.

In articles not long ago, while at Flight Safety, she claimed she flew jets. She even has pictures of her in a cockpit with a helmet on, in air claiming she was flying (she was a backseater on an test flight as a Mx observer.) She also had pics of herself standing on the jet, helmet in hand Top Gun style, like she had just finished a mission. There are other pictures of her in the cockpit, in a flight suit even though in later articles she claims she was never allowed to wear a flight suit or "even stand under the wing of a Jet."

She initially claims she was disavowed by her family, flew to the US alone and ended up at a gas station with 2 suitcases and no money and had to call 2 cabs and eventually 911 to get a ride to Flight Safety. Fabricated. She was totally supported by her wealthy parents the entire way. While at ExpressJet, she Interviewed with United and failed. She mad a big stink about it, wrote an inflated sob story to WAI and Delta, won a WAI Delta type and was promptly hired and made a Poster Child "see we hire minorities!"

I know some of the highest people in WAI and they were furious after they discovered this deception

Sorry to be B!tchy, stuff like this just drives me up the wall.

RadialGal

"you kids get the hell off my lawn!"




Hmmm, she didn't mention that in her Linkedin Profile. ;) I didn't know the backsory, I was just commenting that I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a woman in Pakistan *did* encounter some resistance. Sounds like she is a bit of a pathological liar.

A Squared
05-27-2018, 10:08 AM
Well I hope DAL fires her for deception!




DAL does have the where with all to pursue and take appropriate action regarding the statement and provision, above the signature line of the DAL App for Employment, regarding false statements being grounds for termination.


Personally, I'd love to see all who lie about their accomplishments and create fake narratives get there just desserts. That said, do we know that she lied on her application to Delta? I'm not sure Delta can fire her for posting BS on her Linked-in profile.

A Squared
05-27-2018, 10:16 AM
She even has pictures of her in a cockpit with a helmet on, in air claiming she was flying (she was a backseater on an test flight as a Mx observer.)


Perhaps not unlike having your picture taken sitting the the left seat of your boyfriend's C-46, then having the photo published in a context which would lead the reader to believe that she was actually flying? :rolleyes:


No, not suggesting that was you, just guessing you know who I'm referring to.

jcountry
05-27-2018, 10:39 AM
Personally, I'd love to see all who lie about their accomplishments and create fake narratives get there just desserts. That said, do we know that she lied on her application to Delta? I'm not sure Delta can fire her for posting BS on her Linked-in profile.

I doubt anyone who has created such a crazy narrative could keep themselves from lying on a job app.

Do a little more digging on this gal. She has gone far beyond just a linked in profile. There are interviews and awards and valuable gifts. It looks real bad to me.

I’m really bothered by anyone who thinks it’s cool to falsify anything about their time in the military. It’s similar to people who show up to military funerals posing as a service member when they weren’t. I think this gal sure appears to fall into that category. Real people fight and die to earn the honors that some posers appropriate for themselves.

Something very badly wrong with people who pull such things.

RadialGal
05-27-2018, 10:56 AM
Perhaps not unlike having your picture taken sitting the the left seat of your boyfriend's C-46, then having the photo published in a context which would lead the reader to believe that she was actually flying? :rolleyes:


No, not suggesting that was you, just guessing you know who I'm referring to.


Ha! I know EXACTLY who that was!!!! Swear on my 1st Class it's not me, but she sure as heck has messed up things for females fliers in Alaska.........I'll bet you 10 bucks you know her and know exactly what I am talking about. Keen observation though. That pic creams my corn too!!!

RadialGal

FL370esq
05-28-2018, 05:31 AM
Perhaps its just my humility, but as an eagle grad I couldn't give two hoots about her, nor do I think she represents me in anyway. I NEVER would wear 3 bars in the left seat.

What if you are the FO on a 3-man international leg? Or do you carry a spare set of 4-bar epaulets to change into while the Capt is on break? 😁

CBreezy
05-28-2018, 09:02 AM
Ouch for her story....




https://rebellutionary.wordpress.com/2015/04/13/gender-gerrymander-a-tale-of-a-blackmailing-damsel/


:eek:

Yeah. This looks bad. But it also reads like a hit piece coming from the Pakistani Air Force. A female in a male dominated society talks bad about the AF she spent 10 years in an "article" on wordpress comes out and says she's a liar and blackmailer? This isn't exactly journalism.

ShyGuy
05-28-2018, 09:34 AM
True. But the pictures are online if you look through google. Full flight suit, posing in front cockpit seat, etc, while working only as a mechanic for the aircraft. It’s not to hard to imagine someone wanting to move from the mechanic side to the flight ops pilot side and being denied. Not because of their sex, but aptitude, test scores, ability to parachute, etc. and the fact there were other more legitimately more qualified individuals both male and female.

Seeing that Pakistan had female airline pilots and female military pilots even before her attempts for a flying slot in the PAF, the whole argument falls flat that one couldn’t succeed or was denied simply for being female. Because if you read her piece, she’s basically putting down the entire country and thanking the US for freeing her shackles. It just comes off as an opportunistic individual willing to get ahead at all costs.

Talking about showing up in Florida with nothing but 2 suit cases and pocket change and had to call 911 to get to Vero Beach Flight Safety safely? That just sounds like a hyped up story/BS. As someone who also immigrated to this country, my first question is who paid for the airline ticket here? What about a visa? With nothing in the pocket, who co-signed the Flight Safety loans? Where does one stay the first couple nights or a week or a month? How do you get through customs and immigration without the proper visa or some other status like political asylum, refugee, etc?

I tend to agree with Radial Gal, that while some things about this story are true, other portions are hyped up BS and she definitely had a support network and most likely parents that supported her endeavors to move to and in the US.

Baradium
05-28-2018, 08:24 PM
Ha! I know EXACTLY who that was!!!! Swear on my 1st Class it's not me, but she sure as heck has messed up things for females fliers in Alaska.........I'll bet you 10 bucks you know her and know exactly what I am talking about. Keen observation though. That pic creams my corn too!!!

RadialGal

I have not seen this picture, but my curiosity is piqued. Not like there are a lot of C-46 operators in Alaska. Of course, what about the boyfriend who I presume took the pic in the first place?

A Squared
05-29-2018, 12:51 AM
I have not seen this picture, but my curiosity is piqued. Not like there are a lot of C-46 operators in Alaska. Of course, what about the boyfriend who I presume took the pic in the first place?


The picture itself wasn't that big a deal, just the sort of picture you might take if you brought your girlfriend along on a flight. There may have been some rules bent, but it was an operator which didn't sweat the small stuff. But the the picture later found it's way into a book about Women Pilots in Alaska in a way intended to give the reader the impression that the woman was a qualified C-46 pilot, which she was not. Not really of earth-shattering importance, just the sort of low grade dishonesty that rubs me the wrong way. Really, I only mentioned it because I know RadialGal knows the people involved.

Diesel8
05-29-2018, 08:21 AM
Every female I've worked with at flight schools, 135 and regionals have had much faster career advancement than the males I've known.

Funny how that works, "shackles" and male-dominated industry and all.

Really?

That's not the way it worked for me bud!

captjns
05-29-2018, 08:42 AM
Every female I've worked with at flight schools, 135 and regionals have had much faster career advancement than the males I've known.

Funny how that works, "shackles" and male-dominated industry and all.

You included?:rolleyes:

DownInPetaluma
05-29-2018, 08:43 AM
So, not really a former fighter jock?

Lawn Boy
05-29-2018, 10:00 AM
What if you are the FO on a 3-man international leg? Or do you carry a spare set of 4-bar epaulets to change into while the Capt is on break? 😁


If you're wearing your epaulets at cruise you're doing it wrong!

GogglesPisano
05-29-2018, 10:37 AM
You included?:rolleyes:

Cute..........

RadialGal
05-29-2018, 01:08 PM
So, not really a former fighter jock?


Fatima? Not even close, she was a ground pounder.

RadialGal

awax
05-29-2018, 08:20 PM
So I’m confused, is Fatima the female Muslim version of Tim Martins or not?

ShyGuy
05-29-2018, 09:33 PM
So I’m confused, is Fatima the female Muslim version of Tim Martins or not?

Wouldn't go that far. Tim Martins actually made comments and represented himself as something he is not. With her the stuff online she admits she is a mechanic and in some places "the first woman to fly on a F16" in Pakistan. Yes, technically, that statement is true - she flew on it as a mechanic rider in the back seat. Not as a pilot.

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/12131-jpg.213429/


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-females-journey-to-flying-for-a-us-airline.369745/page-4

There, she achieved another first – the first Pakistani woman to fly in an F16.

“I could rip an open F16 and put it back together like Legos. I was so close to the aircraft, but I did not know how to fly.”

The Air Force repeatedly denied her requests to transfer into pilot training, so after her military stint was over, Fatima chose not to renew it.

Ray Red
05-30-2018, 07:10 AM
What ever became of Tim Martens? Where is he today?

jcountry
05-30-2018, 07:36 AM
Wouldn't go that far. Tim Martins actually made comments and represented himself as something he is not. With her the stuff online she admits she is a mechanic and in some places "the first woman to fly on a F16" in Pakistan. Yes, technically, that statement is true - she flew on it as a mechanic rider in the back seat. Not as a pilot.

https://defence.pk/pdf/attachments/12131-jpg.213429/


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-females-journey-to-flying-for-a-us-airline.369745/page-4

There, she achieved another first – the first Pakistani woman to fly in an F16.

“I could rip an open F16 and put it back together like Legos. I was so close to the aircraft, but I did not know how to fly.”

The Air Force repeatedly denied her requests to transfer into pilot training, so after her military stint was over, Fatima chose not to renew it.


You are right.

But look how misleading that first pic is.

There's lots of misleading stuff associated with her out there. And what's up with that Vero Beach story? Is the USA so hostile that you have to call 911 to get safely to a training facility.

IDK. The whole deal is so fishy. Maybe not as bad as that guy, but pretty out there.

DeadHead
05-30-2018, 07:42 AM
You are right.

But look how misleading that first pic is.

There's lots of misleading stuff associated with her out there. And what's up with that Vero Beach story? Is the USA so hostile that you have to call 911 to get safely to a training facility.

IDK. The whole deal is so fishy. Maybe not as bad as that guy, but pretty out there.


Yeah, I’d have to agree, I’m pretty sure 911 is not meant to be used as a taxi service. The comment makes it sound as though Vero Beach is a war zone.

WhisperJet
05-30-2018, 12:07 PM
Can someone please fill me in on the Tim Martin story

GraceMonth
05-30-2018, 02:25 PM
Can someone please fill me in on the Tim Martin story

First Officer at American Eagle (before Envoy); claimed in an ALPA magazine interview/article that he also flew the F-16 in the Air National Guard. He wasn’t actually an F-16 pilot. And hilariously his mockery goes on and on in infamy. This was 2009 or so, if I remember correctly. I’ll let the Tim Martin experts fill in the rest.

Floobs
05-30-2018, 03:26 PM
First Officer at American Eagle (before Envoy); claimed in an ALPA magazine interview/article that he also flew the F-16 in the Air National Guard. He wasn’t actually an F-16 pilot. And hilariously his mockery goes on and on in infamy. This was 2009 or so, if I remember correctly. I’ll let the Tim Martin experts fill in the rest.

Don't forget he also was a volunteer fire fighter on 9.11 or something.

Baradium
05-30-2018, 05:38 PM
Don't forget he also was a volunteer fire fighter on 9.11 or something.

He claimed to be a volunteer firefighter with one of the engine companies in NYC that was well known from 9/11 and lost a lot of firefighters (that unit does not take volunteers similar to how many large cities are).

Not only was he not a pilot in the air guard, he wasn't even in the unit at all. From what I recall he actually tried to defend himself pretending to be someone else in the unit on one of the military forums.

It was a pretty major article in the magazine involving large pictures etc (I don't remember if it was front page or not).


I forget the premise but basically he was nominated by someone else for being so impressive with everything he does and ALPA made a big deal about it.

I'm not an expert on the events that transpired by any means, just remember reading the article and the big hubbub that followed shortly thereafter.

From google:

Flying Lessons: ALPA and Airline Pilot Caught in a Whopper (http://christinenegroni.blogspot.com/2010/03/alpa-and-airline-pilot-caught-in.html)

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2010/04/01/ny-post-american-eagle-pilot-a


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/49320-military-poser-alpa-magazine.html



I actually found a copy of the original magazine (surprisingly to me)

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0Bx8wgkXdYMB4OTRkZWRjNTAtY2VlNS00N2I0L WEzNDYtNTIxY2FkYjU3Njcw&hl=en The part you're interested in starts on page 22

A Squared
05-30-2018, 05:59 PM
Not only was he not a pilot in the air guard, he wasn't even in the unit at all. From what I recall he actually tried to defend himself pretending to be someone else in the unit on one of the military forums.


That was the astounding thing, that someone would think they could get away with this part. It doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that there is about a 100 percent chance that there are ALPA members at the NJ ANG 177th fighter wing who are going to flip through the magazine and say, wait a minute, I've never heard of this guy, and he doesn't show up on our roster.

jcountry
05-30-2018, 06:01 PM
ALPA laid it on pretty thick with the ethics stuff-not to have vetted anything at all.

Of course, knowing what I know about their ethics, I am entirely unsurprised.

GogglesPisano
05-30-2018, 06:22 PM
This was back during the “spot the difference” pictures. I think they hired the “Highlights” editor.

Ray Red
05-31-2018, 06:44 AM
Not only was he a firefighter he was also a paramedic :rolleyes:

Did he get fired from Eagle after he was outed? I'm sure he put that stuff on his application.

rickair7777
05-31-2018, 09:38 AM
Not only was he a firefighter he was also a paramedic :rolleyes:

Did he get fired from Eagle after he was outed? I'm sure he put that stuff on his application.

He left eagle PDQ after he was outed. You can imagine the circumstances.

rickair7777
05-31-2018, 09:42 AM
He claimed to be a volunteer firefighter with one of the engine companies in NYC that was well known from 9/11 and lost a lot of firefighters (that unit does not take volunteers similar to how many large cities are).

Not only was he not a pilot in the air guard, he wasn't even in the unit at all. From what I recall he actually tried to defend himself pretending to be someone else in the unit on one of the military forums.

It was a pretty major article in the magazine involving large pictures etc (I don't remember if it was front page or not).


I forget the premise but basically he was nominated by someone else for being so impressive with everything he does and ALPA made a big deal about it.

I'm not an expert on the events that transpired by any means, just remember reading the article and the big hubbub that followed shortly thereafter.

From google:

Flying Lessons: ALPA and Airline Pilot Caught in a Whopper (http://christinenegroni.blogspot.com/2010/03/alpa-and-airline-pilot-caught-in.html)

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/airlines/2010/04/01/ny-post-american-eagle-pilot-a


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/military/49320-military-poser-alpa-magazine.html



I actually found a copy of the original magazine (surprisingly to me)

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0Bx8wgkXdYMB4OTRkZWRjNTAtY2VlNS00N2I0L WEzNDYtNTIxY2FkYjU3Njcw&hl=en The part you're interested in starts on page 22

To keep the history alive, I'm also pretty sure he came on APC, pretending to be someone else, in his own defense. Shameless and remorseless.

SactisbonesBJ
05-31-2018, 09:43 AM
Did he get fired from Eagle after he was outed? I'm sure he put that stuff on his application.

He got fired for using a flashlight during a daytime walk around

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_djW4TxD_R9E/S7Na9pwuZZI/AAAAAAAAAAk/EKdMISPgdXA/s1600/Timmy.jpg

jcountry
05-31-2018, 09:51 AM
He got fired for using a flashlight during a daytime walk around

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_djW4TxD_R9E/S7Na9pwuZZI/AAAAAAAAAAk/EKdMISPgdXA/s1600/Timmy.jpg

Hahahaha hahahaha!

Burn of the year!!!

tomgoodman
05-31-2018, 09:59 AM
He got fired for using a flashlight during a daytime walk around

That was just a precaution in case of an unforecast total eclipse or a solar flameout. :p

TCASTESTOK
05-31-2018, 10:01 AM
I always wondering why AE decided to throw up Regional Jet on the cowlings? I mean the pax already know they are in for a uncomfortable flight, why make it even more obvious?

at6d
05-31-2018, 10:05 AM
I always wondering why AE decided to throw up Regional Jet on the cowlings? I mean the pax already know they are in for a uncomfortable flight, why make it even more obvious?

Probably a leftover from being the launch customer.

jcountry
05-31-2018, 10:58 AM
I always wondering why AE decided to throw up Regional Jet on the cowlings? I mean the pax already know they are in for a uncomfortable flight, why make it even more obvious?

Better marketing than “****ing brasilia in disguise”

CBreezy
05-31-2018, 11:05 AM
I always wondering why AE decided to throw up Regional Jet on the cowlings? I mean the pax already know they are in for a uncomfortable flight, why make it even more obvious?

Because before there were regional jets, they only flew props into small markets. The regional jet was immensely popular until the public forgot what a prop was like.

bizzlepilot
05-31-2018, 11:10 AM
That picture makes me want to puke. Reading the article about put me into a fit of convulsions. What a terrible person, I can't believe he made it that far with so many blatant lies in his past. At least he was finally found out.

Ray Red
05-31-2018, 01:17 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-martins-80a02968

Looks like he’s made a few stops post Eagle including a stint in Mali and CommutAir and is now a contract pilot on Hawkers and GIV. Wonder if he still volunteers with the FDNY?

at6d
05-31-2018, 03:14 PM
Timmmmmaaaaayyy!!

sflpilot
05-31-2018, 06:56 PM
https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothy-martins-80a02968

Looks like he’s made a few stops post Eagle including a stint in Mali and CommutAir and is now a contract pilot on Hawkers and GIV. Wonder if he still volunteers with the FDNY?

Maybe Mali is far away enough that they didn’t hear about the whole fiasco but what the blank was C5 thinking I mean they’re Alpa?

ShyGuy
05-31-2018, 10:57 PM
RJ walkaround with a flashlight in daytime = winning

EMBFlyer
06-01-2018, 12:32 AM
Maybe Mali is far away enough that they didn’t hear about the whole fiasco but what the blank was C5 thinking I mean they’re Alpa?

So is Tim!

Lou Turk
06-01-2018, 06:27 AM
Because before there were regional jets, they only flew props into small markets. The regional jet was immensely popular until the public forgot what a prop was like.
The commuter I worked for used to emblazon the cowlings of their Metroliners and Beech 99s with "jet powered", yet somehow the passengers knew.....

NeverHome
06-01-2018, 06:38 AM
Maybe Mali is far away enough that they didn’t hear about the whole fiasco but what the blank was C5 thinking I mean they’re Alpa?

We knew. From my understanding, after we hired him we started googling applicants names.

The Newark crew room had his picture on every computer for a long time. He would change it, take a leak, and like magic there it was.

Not a bad guy per se. But definitely full of bull. I really think he needed some professional help. He was personal, but ya, I knew he was lying most of the time.

McNugent
06-07-2018, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I’d have to agree, I’m pretty sure 911 is not meant to be used as a taxi service. The comment makes it sound as though Vero Beach is a war zone.

Just happened upon this thread while bored and have to steer it back in the Fatima direction. I actually flew with her at ASA! I heard the whole story from her. It was absolutely incredible, especially coming straight from the source. To add to it, she claimed that she didn’t speak a word of English and had to teach herself how to communicate on top of starting flight school.

I certainly had my questions at the time, but who was I to question someone who’d overcome such huge obstacles? She did such an amazing job of playing on our pre conceived notions of how things are over there. And it was mostly BS. I’m glad she’s Delta’s problem!

I will add one thing to this about her. She did say that she was not a pilot for the Pakistani Air Force. Never claimed that. She did mention being the first female to “fly in” an F-16. I’ll give her credit there.

DownInPetaluma
06-07-2018, 02:56 PM
I will add one thing to this about her. She did say that she was not a pilot for the Pakistani Air Force. Never claimed that. She did mention being the first female to “fly in” an F-16. I’ll give her credit there.

I mean, being a trained mission specialist on the Space Shuttle would be something. This feat probably required a 25 minute briefing, max.

Baradium
06-07-2018, 03:22 PM
I mean, being a trained mission specialist on the Space Shuttle would be something. This feat probably required a 25 minute briefing, max.

In that culture it is likely a pretty significant feat, and may very well be close to that stature in terms of likelihood to have happened previously.

DownInPetaluma
06-07-2018, 04:14 PM
In that culture it is likely a pretty significant feat, and may very well be close to that stature in terms of likelihood to have happened previously.

Yeah, perhaps. But what -other than being born a certain gender- special aptitude did it require to sit in a freaking seat with a g-suit on.

I’d have a problem putting something like that on my CV. Just sayin’.

jcountry
06-07-2018, 06:55 PM
In that culture it is likely a pretty significant feat, and may very well be close to that stature in terms of likelihood to have happened previously.

Much like having to call 911 for a ride to the flight training center in Vero....

And somehow learn English on the ride over.

But be sure and vie for a nobel prize along the way. And win the local rodeo, and learn to play the flute with Zamfir

Outstanding stuff!

Airhoss
06-08-2018, 06:22 AM
Much like having to call 911 for a ride to the flight training center in Vero....

And somehow learn English on the ride over.

But be sure and vie for a nobel prize along the way. And win the local rodeo, and learn to play the flute with Zamfir

Outstanding stuff!


Hows a girl supposed to get ahead in this world anyway then?

badflaps
06-08-2018, 07:56 AM
Hows a girl supposed to get ahead in this world anyway then?
One word - "Stormy."

busdriver12
06-08-2018, 12:57 PM
One word - "Stormy."

True. All you need is a president willing to mess around with you after he is newly married.... and then pay you 130K to keep your mouth shut.

WhiskeyDelta
06-08-2018, 12:58 PM
True. All you need is a president willing to mess around with you after he is newly married.... and then pay you 130K to keep your mouth shut.


“Future” president

at6d
06-10-2018, 10:44 AM
Saw this recently:

Bill Clinton paid Paula Jones $850K.

Trump paid Stormy $130K.

Trump made a better deal!

hilltopflyer
06-10-2018, 12:23 PM
Saw this recently:

Bill Clinton paid Paula Jones $850K.

Trump paid Stormy $130K.

Trump made a better deal!

And Paula jones is a whole lot uglier.

Stimpy the Kat
06-10-2018, 01:08 PM
The Man did write the Book didn't he ?

He is an Artist.

STK

jcountry
06-10-2018, 01:25 PM
The Man did write the Book didn't he ?

He is an Artist.

STK

He may be an artist, but he has poor taste.

Every woman he was banging looked like someone you’d attract by dragging a $5 bill through a meth lab.

ShyGuy
06-11-2018, 02:12 PM
Get 5 minutes for an aviation skit and end up talking about eating eggs, getting a period, and tampons?

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/a20686771/the-female-pilot-who-succeeded-against-all-odds/

jcountry
06-11-2018, 03:49 PM
Get 5 minutes for an aviation skit and end up talking about eating eggs, getting a period, and tampons?

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/a20686771/the-female-pilot-who-succeeded-against-all-odds/

She is obviously really good at breaking barriers.

Much better than me.

I somehow couldn’t bust through the ol’ ‘give a ****’ barrier quite long enough to make it even halfway.

Had to manipulate my controls to somewhere else. Anywhere else.

That was crap.

Excargodog
06-11-2018, 03:54 PM
“Future” president

At least it was his money. He didn't keep someone on taxpayer funded civil service pay for on-call Oval Office BJs.

Learflyer
06-11-2018, 08:09 PM
We are living in completely stupid times. Jesus tap dancing christ. She's at Delta?

hilltopflyer
06-12-2018, 06:10 AM
We are living in completely stupid times. Jesus tap dancing christ. She's at Delta?

Only place she'd fit in.

Celeste
06-12-2018, 11:09 AM
Get 5 minutes for an aviation skit and end up talking about eating eggs, getting a period, and tampons?

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/beauty/a20686771/the-female-pilot-who-succeeded-against-all-odds/

Top of the page:
"Created by Thinx"
As in... it is a sponsored advertisement for Thinx... not an "aviation skit."

Why is she doing an ad for Thinx? The F if I know.

But, Jesus, you guys are squeamish.

ShyGuy
06-12-2018, 11:59 AM
Top of the page:
"Created by Thinx"
As in... it is a sponsored advertisement for Thinx... not an "aviation skit."

Why is she doing an ad for Thinx? The F if I know.

But, Jesus, you guys are squeamish.

Guess I was thrown off by the title of the article:

“The Female Pilot Who Succeeded Against All Odds

From studying with a 95% male class, to building a life on her own terms.”

TroutBum
06-13-2018, 07:01 AM
Guess I was thrown off by the title of the article:

“The Female Pilot Who Succeeded Against All Odds

From studying with a 95% male class, to building a life on her own terms.”

Yeah, I ended up clicking on the link to the right about the woman who rowed the Atlantic solo and unsupported. Now that's badass.

ShyGuy
06-14-2018, 04:44 PM
Looks like SWA Capt Shultz saw the ERAU video



"She also revealed that an aviation university, which tried to recreate the incident with a flight simulator, was unable to land in the same fashion as she and her co-pilot."

"She also revealed in her speech that an aviation university recreated the conditions of that flight using a simulator, but they were unable to land the plane without utilizing the flight automation program aboard the virtual aircraft, according to the Journal.

"Darren and I didn't use any flight automation that day," Shults said."

Southwest pilot Tammie Jo Shults reflects on life-changing flight: 'We had help that day' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/06/13/southwest-pilot-tammie-jo-shults-reflects-on-life-changing-flight-had-help-that-day.html)

freezingflyboy
06-14-2018, 05:14 PM
Let Jesus take the wheel baby!

Sliceback
06-14-2018, 06:07 PM
While the 56-year-old pilot has decades of experience in aviation, serving as one of the first female fighter pilots in U.S. military history and later joining Southwest in 1993, she largely credits God to helping her land Flight 1380 that day.

"The EMT said, 'You don't even have an elevated heart rate,' That's not within my grasp. I can control my voice sometimes, but that's one of those things that's God-given," Shults said.

She also revealed in her speech that an aviation university recreated the conditions of that flight using a simulator, but they were unable to land the plane without utilizing the flight automation program aboard the virtual aircraft, according to the Journal.

"Darren and I didn't use any flight automation that day," Shults said. "While we're a good team, I really don't think that we're that good. We had help that day."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the pilots had been non-believers would the outcome have been different? Does the airplane care about the religious beliefs of the pilots?

It's cringe-worthy that the poor simulator work shown on this thread is now being used as a baseline for the standard professional pilots should be compared to. If we can't land an airliner s/e without using the autopilot the industry is in HUGE trouble.

JamesNoBrakes
06-14-2018, 08:45 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If the pilots had been non-believers would the outcome have been different? Does the airplane care about the religious beliefs of the pilots?

It's cringe-worthy that the poor simulator work shown on this thread is now being used as a baseline for the standard professional pilots should be compared to. If we can't land an airliner s/e without using the autopilot the industry is in HUGE trouble.

Well, you can't prove it wasn't the FSM, therefore it must have been the FSM ;)

Han Solo
06-15-2018, 04:10 AM
If the pilots had been non-believers would the outcome have been different? Does the airplane care about the religious beliefs of the pilots?



So apparently the lord just hated that WF bank executive. Let's at least be consistent, if he is going to help the pilot land the plane then there must've been a reason for the engine failure and cabin breach. I seem to have missed this part of the story on Fox News.

freezingflyboy
06-15-2018, 05:55 AM
Looks like SWA Capt Shultz saw the ERAU video



"She also revealed that an aviation university, which tried to recreate the incident with a flight simulator, was unable to land in the same fashion as she and her co-pilot."

"She also revealed in her speech that an aviation university recreated the conditions of that flight using a simulator, but they were unable to land the plane without utilizing the flight automation program aboard the virtual aircraft, according to the Journal.

"Darren and I didn't use any flight automation that day," Shults said."

Southwest pilot Tammie Jo Shults reflects on life-changing flight: 'We had help that day' | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/06/13/southwest-pilot-tammie-jo-shults-reflects-on-life-changing-flight-had-help-that-day.html)

Ooorrrr...the woman who tried to recreate the incident in that cringe-worthy "news" segment was trying to fly a complex emergency while single-pilot in an aircraft designed for two pilots that she isn't typed or current in. If an appropriately rated and current pilot can't complete an engine failure/severe damage checklist and successfully fly the aircraft to a landing while following proper procedures (such as having an appropriately rated and current pilot in the other seat NOT named God) then there are several thousand current and former CRJ drivers out there with bogus type ratings/had better find religion.

Given the source, I am going to give Capt. Shults the benefit of the doubt and assume her comments were taken out of context/misrepresented to pander to a certain demographic. But just...ooof!

Sliceback
06-15-2018, 05:56 PM
The basics of the emergency aren’t that different from airplane to airplane if you’re a professional, and experienced, pilot even if you’re not qualified on the airplane.

A Squared
06-15-2018, 06:23 PM
The basics of the emergency aren’t that different from airplane to airplane if you’re a professional, and experienced, pilot even if you’re not qualified on the airplane.


Well, true. But the basics of not pulling through the stick shaker to a stall are pretty much the same airplane to airplane, and that seemed beyond her.

freezingflyboy
06-16-2018, 08:09 AM
Well, true. But the basics of not pulling through the stick shaker to a stall are pretty much the same airplane to airplane, and that seemed beyond her.

I suspect there was some creative editing after some producer, realizing how boring something like that in a sim can be, asked the woman from Riddle to show them something "exciting". So a stall gets demonatrated which gets spliced into an otherwise benign engine failure scenario and voila.

say again
06-16-2018, 08:24 AM
Did ERAU pull the video? Smart move if they did.

jcountry
06-16-2018, 09:49 AM
I suspect there was some creative editing after some producer, realizing how boring something like that in a sim can be, asked the woman from Riddle to show them something "exciting". So a stall gets demonatrated which gets spliced into an otherwise benign engine failure scenario and voila.

Probably.

I used to work in TV.

I can’t watch much anymore. Once you see how the sausage is made and all...

I’ve never been able to watch reality shows. Everyone on all those shows is there because they are big enough idiots to actually say and do all the stupid stuff producers ask them to.

tomgoodman
06-16-2018, 12:43 PM
I’ve never been able to watch reality shows. Everyone on all those shows is there because they are big enough idiots to actually say and do all the stupid stuff producers ask them to.

“OK, your spontaneous reaction needs to sound more authentic. Let’s rehearse it again.” :rolleyes:

hilltopflyer
06-16-2018, 12:43 PM
I suspect there was some creative editing after some producer, realizing how boring something like that in a sim can be, asked the woman from Riddle to show them something "exciting". So a stall gets demonatrated which gets spliced into an otherwise benign engine failure scenario and voila.

But if you watch the video one engine is already out.

CBreezy
06-17-2018, 06:46 AM
I suspect there was some creative editing after some producer, realizing how boring something like that in a sim can be, asked the woman from Riddle to show them something "exciting". So a stall gets demonatrated which gets spliced into an otherwise benign engine failure scenario and voila.

And that's why when you have a major corporation and University, you have someone specializing in PR and media relations that wouldn't let a producer talk you into something like that, if that's what happened.

jcountry
06-17-2018, 02:17 PM
“OK, your spontaneous reaction needs to sound more authentic. Let’s rehearse it again.” :rolleyes:

It’s like that....

Except the “talent” in most of those shows would have no clue on earth what those big words mean.

AirBear
06-19-2018, 06:20 PM
It’s like that....

Except the “talent” in most of those shows would have no clue on earth what those big words mean.

Got upgraded to 1st class on a positioning flight a few years ago. Was sitting next to a former head of programming for Discovery Channel I think it was. We talked about the "reality" shows. He said they have to manufacture the drama, otherwise the show would be boring. Pretty much what I had assumed was happening.

Bellanca
06-19-2018, 06:54 PM
And that's why when you have a major corporation and University, you have someone specializing in PR and media relations that wouldn't let a producer talk you into something like that, if that's what happened.

Except their PR/media/social media types are usually people that specialize in PR and advertising, not people that actually know anything about flying a plane...

badflaps
06-19-2018, 08:56 PM
Got upgraded to 1st class on a positioning flight a few years ago. Was sitting next to a former head of programming for Discovery Channel I think it was. We talked about the "reality" shows. He said they have to manufacture the drama, otherwise the show would be boring. Pretty much what I had assumed was happening.

As in the airplane repo show.



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