Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Future on non-wholly owned


unity2010
05-16-2018, 06:47 PM
Check out the video on jetnet of President Isom town hall meeting,
talking about the non-wholly owned...good news for the WO...


The Unsub
05-16-2018, 07:13 PM
I call BS on this. airlines will always pick the lowest bidder to save money. Isom is trying to sugar coat the wholly owned airlines to keep people in seats chasing an 8+ year flow while better opportunities are out there in this hiring market.

Jetunderwing
05-16-2018, 07:21 PM
Check out the video on jetnet of President Isom town hall meeting,
talking about the non-wholly owned...good news for the WO...

Anyone know how to copy and paste this in the Compass Airline forum?


flysooner9
05-16-2018, 08:35 PM
while better opportunities are out there in this hiring market.

I see this line being used in every single regional forum on this site.

Fr8Thrust
05-17-2018, 05:06 AM
I call BS on this. airlines will always pick the lowest bidder to save money. Isom is trying to sugar coat the wholly owned airlines to keep people in seats chasing an 8+ year flow while better opportunities are out there in this hiring market.

Preach! #truth

ENH017
05-17-2018, 05:12 AM
A quote from the video I found most interesting:

"..So we've got a great set of wholly owneds. I would really like to see us over the long run then combine that with a few carriers of critical mass, that meet standards in terms of quality.."

That sounds like the wholly owneds plus Skywest and one other?

Jersdawg
05-17-2018, 05:38 AM
A quote from the video I found most interesting:

"..So we've got a great set of wholly owneds. I would really like to see us over the long run then combine that with a few carriers of critical mass, that meet standards in terms of quality.."

That sounds like the wholly owneds plus Skywest and one other?

My WAG has always been the WO + Skywest and Republic. They have the size and resources to compete.

MD-11Loader
05-17-2018, 06:31 AM
The TSH guys are all freaking out about a possible merger announcement with Republic in the near future. If that happens I wonder if we can kiss the thought of getting flying in LAX back from Compass?

go skers
05-17-2018, 07:23 AM
A quote from the video I found most interesting:

"..So we've got a great set of wholly owneds. I would really like to see us over the long run then combine that with a few carriers of critical mass, that meet standards in terms of quality.."

That sounds like the wholly owneds plus Skywest and one other?

The quotes I found interesting were that PSA was going to have 150 airplanes, PDT around 50ish and Envoy growing to 200. That accounts for 2/3 of the 590 airplanes in AA's regional fleet. I think the last 1/3 will be accounted for by Skywest having 50 CR7, Mesa 64 CR9 and RPA having the 85 E175s. I think those 3 will be the final survivors of the non WO's for the foreseeable future.

Food for thought, if Envoy is really going to be at 200 airplanes in the next two years. That means PDT operates the 56 E145 they've been promised and all CR7s get transferred to PSA by next year that leaves Envoy with 180 airplanes at the end of 2019:

49 E140
62 E145
69 E175

I wonder where those last 20 airplanes will come from to get us to 200.

Cyio
05-17-2018, 07:34 AM
The quotes I found interesting were that PSA was going to have 150 airplanes, PDT around 50ish and Envoy growing to 200. That accounts for 2/3 of the 590 airplanes in AA's regional fleet. I think the last 1/3 will be accounted for by Skywest having 50 CR7, Mesa 64 CR9 and RPA having the 85 E175s. I think those 3 will be the final survivors of the non WO's for the foreseeable future.

Food for thought, if Envoy is really going to be at 200 airplanes in the next two years. That means PDT operates the 56 E145 they've been promised and all CR7s get transferred to PSA by next year that leaves Envoy with 180 airplanes at the end of 2019:

49 E140
62 E145
69 E175

I wonder where those last 20 airplanes will come from to get us to 200.

Hmmmmm, if only i had a device that could give me a "sense of direction" as to where they may come from.;)

MD-11Loader
05-17-2018, 07:36 AM
49 E140
62 E145
69 E175

I wonder where those last 20 airplanes will come from to get us to 200.

Compass would be my guess.

3GreenKSNA
05-17-2018, 08:01 AM
Compass would be my guess.
When is their contract up?

Early termination clause for lousy performance?

How has their controllable completion factor been?

havick206
05-17-2018, 08:29 AM
The TSH guys are all freaking out about a possible merger announcement with Republic in the near future. If that happens I wonder if we can kiss the thought of getting flying in LAX back from Compass?

LAX has never been back on the table. Just a rumor that wonít die.

bigtime209
05-17-2018, 08:39 AM
When is their contract up?

Early termination clause for lousy performance?

How has their controllable completion factor been?

It goes through the end of next year. My understanding is that their performance has been good.

go skers
05-17-2018, 09:07 AM
When is their contract up?

Early termination clause for lousy performance?

How has their controllable completion factor been?

Their numbers are fine. They won't terminate it early

Seaplane
05-17-2018, 11:37 AM
Their numbers are fine. They won't terminate it early

No need to terminate it early. We need more time to give 145s to peidmont and 700s to PSA so we can staff the 40 and maybe compassí 20 planes

highflyer1980
05-17-2018, 11:59 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/25e8c062ebb283f5dfb800e181129e09.jpg

bigtime209
05-17-2018, 01:22 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180517/25e8c062ebb283f5dfb800e181129e09.jpg

Well done, sir. You win the internet today.

TheBlueBaron
05-19-2018, 04:59 PM
Hmmmmm, if only i had a device that could give me a "sense of direction" as to where they may come from.;)

I see what you did there. Well played. Well played indeed.

Teardrop
05-21-2018, 04:41 AM
Compass would be my guess.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-04/american-air-to-end-regional-deals-with-expressjet-trans-states.

Don't know about the E-175's but there should be more routes coming from this.

flyguy727
05-21-2018, 08:29 PM
I call BS on this. airlines will always pick the lowest bidder to save money. Isom is trying to sugar coat the wholly owned airlines to keep people in seats chasing an 8+ year flow while better opportunities are out there in this hiring market.
It's not going to be a matter of lowest bidder. The pipeline of pilots is starting to grow thin. Which means there is a shortage of pilots going to the regional. It's already begun with great lakes. Over the up coming years you'll start regional cutting back on flying, some even filling for bankruptcy. Wholly own will be the last to survive, but eventually they fall pray to the shortage as well.

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 08:25 AM
It's not going to be a matter of lowest bidder. The pipeline of pilots is starting to grow thin. Which means there is a shortage of pilots going to the regional. It's already begun with great lakes. Over the up coming years you'll start regional cutting back on flying, some even filling for bankruptcy. Wholly own will be the last to survive, but eventually they fall pray to the shortage as well.

I don't think so man. A major bankruptcy or two will happen and then we'll see the 1500 hour rule "revised" by congress and hundreds of thousands of 300 hour FO's willing to fly for free and with an automatic diversity flow through to the majors pouring in. We need to enjoy the demand > supply situation when it comes to our labor while we can. It's one legislative sea change away from being over in a big way, and rolling back to $10/hr starting pay, no QOL, brutal onesided contract negotiations, and only a lottery shot of getting a call from the majors for FWM.

flyguy727
05-22-2018, 04:02 PM
I don't think so man. A major bankruptcy or two will happen and then we'll see the 1500 hour rule "revised" by congress and hundreds of thousands of 300 hour FO's willing to fly for free and with an automatic diversity flow through to the majors pouring in. We need to enjoy the demand > supply situation when it comes to our labor while we can. It's one legislative sea change away from being over in a big way, and rolling back to $10/hr starting pay, no QOL, brutal onesided contract negotiations, and only a lottery shot of getting a call from the majors for FWM.

The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Cyio
05-23-2018, 04:44 AM
The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Why would you hope he is right? That would be about the worst thing to happen and thankfully, ALPA was able to keep that provision of lowering the hours out of the new FAA Reauthorization Bill, at least for now. Believe me, Congress, or at least certain members are actively trying to get us out of the equation for their corporate overlords.

Several reps did manage to sneak in a provision for testing and research of single pilot cargo operations, which is bad news. Hopefully ALPA can again challenge this attempt to undermine our labor force.

NoValueAviator
05-23-2018, 06:28 AM
The one thing we know, and perhaps you haven't notice, i's that Congress works very slow. There has been talk about moving the retirementage to 67 for a couple of years, and still hasn't happen. Congress is too busy with their heads up there behind. But, let's see, hopefully your right, but I'm not holding my breath on it.

Well, I hope you're right.

Av8rPHX
05-29-2018, 02:06 PM
It goes through the end of next year. My understanding is that their performance has been good.



It has actually been the top performing Eagle carrier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

bigtime209
05-29-2018, 02:22 PM
It has actually been the top performing Eagle carrier.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While I don't deny the good performance, everyone claims that they're the best eagle carrier- Envoy, Compass, Republic, PSA, etc.... I'd love to see some data that breaks down each carrier's performance. Do you have any data that specifically shows Compass is THE best?

Bigpimppilot
05-29-2018, 02:59 PM
My belief that isnít founded in anything believes that as long as any ďpartnerĒ eagle can do most of their commitment then aag will not cut their legs out from under them. Unless that partner gets bought out by delta. Then all bets are off

bigtime209
05-29-2018, 03:22 PM
My belief that isnít founded in anything believes that as long as any ďpartnerĒ eagle can do most of their commitment then aag will not cut their legs out from under them. Unless that partner gets bought out by delta. Then all bets are off

If a wholly owned carrier can handle the commitment of flying that a contract carrier is flying, then AAG will have a WO carrier take it. AAG gets to hold on to a larger cut of the profit with a WO carrier than having it farmed out. BUT....the big question mark is staffing at the WO.

NoValueAviator
05-29-2018, 05:06 PM
Performance isn't apples to apples anyway. Of course a carrier with newer, better maintained equipment and operating out of less dysfunctional hubs is going to have better performance.

Bigpimppilot
05-29-2018, 05:09 PM
If a wholly owned carrier can handle the commitment of flying that a contract carrier is flying, then AAG will have a WO carrier take it. AAG gets to hold on to a larger cut of the profit with a WO carrier than having it farmed out. BUT....the big question mark is staffing at the WO.


Big time. Good points. Iíd like to remind everyone that tsa blowing it and airwhisky telling aag to stuff it were not expected. If the wholly owned are at capacity or overcommitted now then why take flying from someone that is holding in there like compass is. Unless Iím wrong and they arenít.

bigtime209
05-29-2018, 05:15 PM
Performance isn't apples to apples anyway. Of course a carrier with newer, better maintained equipment and operating out of less dysfunctional hubs is going to have better performance.

If you think AAG cares only about performance, then you're kidding yourself. ie look at MESA. The sh|ttiest performance out there. It all comes down to money when it's all said and done. If AAG can get performance out of one carrier while doing as good or better, then they'll do it. i.e...operating 175s through a WO vs a contract carrier. Well...AAG is gonna do what's best for AAG. Hint...AAG holds onto far greater profits by operating flights through its WOs vs. its contract carriers.

FlyingSlowly
05-31-2018, 08:40 AM
AAG is gonna do what's best for AAG. Hint...AAG holds onto far greater profits by operating flights through its WOs vs. its contract carriers.

It's high time that pilots across the WOs figure this out and start to think accordingly...

Idontevenfly
05-31-2018, 09:06 AM
If you think AAG cares only about performance, then you're kidding yourself. ie look at MESA. The sh|ttiest performance out there. It all comes down to money when it's all said and done. If AAG can get performance out of one carrier while doing as good or better, then they'll do it. i.e...operating 175s through a WO vs a contract carrier. Well...AAG is gonna do what's best for AAG. Hint...AAG holds onto far greater profits by operating flights through its WOs vs. its contract carriers.
Where'd you see they have the ****tiest performance out there?

NoValueAviator
06-02-2018, 04:19 AM
I'm also curious where Mesa's performance figures are coming from. They're operating out of places where weather and ATC delays are mostly unheard of. I would be surprised if their on-time percentage wasn't higher than ours.

Cyio
06-02-2018, 05:17 AM
I'm also curious where Mesa's performance figures are coming from. They're operating out of places where weather and ATC delays are mostly unheard of. I would be surprised if their on-time percentage wasn't higher than ours.
I have zero hard evidence of this but I believe the common reason people claim their performance sucks is due mostly to maintenance.

SullyJR
06-02-2018, 05:27 AM
I have zero hard evidence of this but I believe the common reason people claim their performance sucks is due mostly to maintenance.

Maintenance and crew availability.

BoldPilot
06-02-2018, 07:13 AM
Future...I'll tell you the future. That future is grim. All regionals will die. Further down the road most middle class jobs including the pilot profession will vanish. Their won't be enough jobs to go around and people will starve. That is what my fortune cookie told me today! That's all I gotta say about that.

TransWorld
06-02-2018, 11:48 AM
Future...I'll tell you the future. That future is grim. All regionals will die. Further down the road most middle class jobs including the pilot profession will vanish. Their won't be enough jobs to go around and people will starve. That is what my fortune cookie told me today! That's all I gotta say about that.

The world ended today, film at 11. That is what I saw on TV.

NoValueAviator
06-02-2018, 04:23 PM
Hopefully my keen stick and rudder skills will qualify me to drive a twinned-V12 War Rig in the post apocalyptic wasteland.

Finally at the majors

chrisreedrules
06-03-2018, 04:27 AM
Hopefully my keen stick and rudder skills will qualify me to drive a twinned-V12 War Rig in the post apocalyptic wasteland.

Finally at the majors

You will ride eternal, shiny and chrome.

Bigpimppilot
06-03-2018, 06:13 AM
Hope is a mistake, if you canít fix whatís broken youíll go insane



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1