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Fly507
05-22-2018, 07:46 AM
Hey guys,

I've been doing some research about this, but the information is scattered all over the forums and I would like to hear from other pilots who have done this move.

I'm close to 1000 121, but not so close to upgrade. I live in Florida and would like to stay here, so I've been considering the DEC at Envoy.
It is my understanding that all the DECs are being sent to LGA until you can hold some other base. How long is it currently taking for DECs to hold MIA? How bad was sitting reserve in LGA? Would you recommend doing this?

If I was to do this, I'd move up to LGA until I can hold MIA and then come back to FL, so commuting wouldn't be an issue.

I appreciate your input.


BigZ
05-22-2018, 08:17 AM
Hey guys,

I've been doing some research about this, but the information is scattered all over the forums and I would like to hear from other pilots who have done this move.

I'm close to 1000 121, but not so close to upgrade. I live in Florida and would like to stay here, so I've been considering the DEC at Envoy.
It is my understanding that all the DECs are being sent to LGA until you can hold some other base. How long is it currently taking for DECs to hold MIA? How bad was sitting reserve in LGA? Would you recommend doing this?

If I was to do this, I'd move up to LGA until I can hold MIA and then come back to FL, so commuting wouldn't be an issue.

I appreciate your input.

Not a DEC, but I'm thinking that at this point any answer would just be a guess. Don't see enough statistical data to make an educated estimate.
Sooner you come here the better your chances of getting to MIA sooner are, I'd think. If the company manages to generate a DEC hiring wave, better to be on the front side of it.

CaseTractor
05-22-2018, 08:36 AM
A buddy of mine was hired the end of November and was done with training about three months later. He transfers to MIA 1JUN. So threeish months and he didn't complain overly much. I am sure it was tough, but doable. He was already used to reserve from a previous company. DECs seems to be the focus of hiring, and they are coming, but not sure how much or if its too soon to really see what the final results will be.

The new program provides 3 full months of commuter hotels and business passes to and from LGA to home to make the situation easier for new FOs and CAs.

Just my observations..


highfarfast
05-22-2018, 09:35 AM
With the new commuter provisions specifically for LGA, it may not stay the default junior location. I know I changed my displacement preferences because of it.

CardboardCutout
05-22-2018, 10:11 AM
Do DECs get the signing bonus? Or should a DEC just plan min guarantee?

NoValueAviator
05-22-2018, 10:22 AM
Do DECs get the signing bonus? Or should a DEC just plan min guarantee?

DECs get the biggest signining bonus, plus ~2500 if someone will split a referral with them, although I heard the referral program is ending.

Bruno82
05-22-2018, 10:57 AM
I’m not sure how many DECs they plan to hire, but after getting the call for the CJO, the earliest class date was a little over two months away, just FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jonrayburn
05-22-2018, 11:44 AM
A buddy of mine was hired the end of November and was done with training about three months later. He transfers to MIA 1JUN. So threeish months and he didn't complain overly much. I am sure it was tough, but doable. He was already used to reserve from a previous company. DECs seems to be the focus of hiring, and they are coming, but not sure how much or if its too soon to really see what the final results will be.

The new program provides 3 full months of commuter hotels and business passes to and from LGA to home to make the situation easier for new FOs and CAs.

Just my observations..

I think the likelihood of your buddy being displaced out of MIA is high. Especially with the wave of 2016 hires about to upgrade. Time will tell, but I highly doubt a new hire DEC will be able to hold anything other than LGA or ORD for much longer than 3 months. IMO

Jeffreyj
05-22-2018, 02:04 PM
I think the likelihood of your buddy being displaced out of MIA is high. Especially with the wave of 2016 hires about to upgrade. Time will tell, but I highly doubt a new hire DEC will be able to hold anything other than LGA or ORD for much longer than 3 months. IMO

There would have to be a displacement bid for someone to be displaced out of their base. I don’t see that happening anytime soon and even when the CRJ’s finally go away the displacements probably won’t affect many.

highfarfast
05-22-2018, 02:57 PM
There would have to be a displacement bid for someone to be displaced out of their base. I don’t see that happening anytime soon and even when the CRJ’s finally go away the displacements probably won’t affect many.
I ve flown with captains displaced out of base and equipment. One was just off of ioe on dfw 145 that he vacancy bid for and found out on the trip i had with him that he was displaced to ord 175. He was not a DEC either.

Pedro4President
05-22-2018, 03:06 PM
There would have to be a displacement bid for someone to be displaced out of their base. I don’t see that happening anytime soon and even when the CRJ’s finally go away the displacements probably won’t affect many.

I'm not sure what rock you have been hiding under but pilots have been displaced on the last three displacements.

As long as they are forcing FOs to displace to CAs then there is a chance for DECS to get bumped back to LGA/ORD. It's really hard to predict since we are going to loose 174 pilots between now and November just due to flow. Add another 7 per month and that's 216 CA vacancies due to attrition. This means there will likely to continue to force upgrades. So far we have hired 50 DECS per the union seniority list. It looks like we are hiring more CAs then we expected.

Aviatrx
05-22-2018, 04:04 PM
Hey guys,

I've been doing some research about this, but the information is scattered all over the forums and I would like to hear from other pilots who have done this move.

I'm close to 1000 121, but not so close to upgrade. I live in Florida and would like to stay here, so I've been considering the DEC at Envoy.
It is my understanding that all the DECs are being sent to LGA until you can hold some other base. How long is it currently taking for DECs to hold MIA? How bad was sitting reserve in LGA? Would you recommend doing this?

If I was to do this, I'd move up to LGA until I can hold MIA and then come back to FL, so commuting wouldn't be an issue.

I appreciate your input.

I tend to think it IS worth it. I am not a recruiter. You can bid to MIA in a relatively short time (roughly a year, maybe). Some don’t do it as quickly, to make money/time as a line holder. That is your prerogative! The new LOA is helpful for those early months of reserve as well as increased flow. For someone like me, who has a good resume and still can’t get the legacy interview, I think the WO AA FFD airlines are a good place to hang while persuing your dream job. If you happen to get stuck here, movement is good and it truly is a good place to work. There are a lot of changes happening in the industry for the better and hopefully we can continue to negotiate some gains while times are good (RSV Ruels/Pay Rates). There are a few decent FFD carriers right now, I think the WO’s are best fit to get you where you want(AA) if things don’t go as planned. I work with mostly very excellent and compitant pilots and mostly good maintenance. Good luck with your decision!

Jeffreyj
05-22-2018, 05:39 PM
I'm not sure what rock you have been hiding under but pilots have been displaced on the last three displacements.

Thanks, I forgot about the FO’s displacing junior captains. I’ve mentally already gone over to American.

Pedro4President
05-22-2018, 05:59 PM
Thanks, I forgot about the FO’s displacing junior captains. I’ve mentally already gone over to American.

Lucky!!!!!!!

lukeh99
05-29-2018, 07:29 PM
Any info on how long to hold ORD at the moment for DEC?

llws
05-30-2018, 06:55 PM
The biggest problem for prospective DECs is that pretty soon they won't be needed. Our FOs will have the time to upgrade, and we'll be hiring more FOs. If you get stuck as one of the last DECs hired, you're looking at being a junior CA for a loooong time.

havick206
05-30-2018, 07:14 PM
The biggest problem for prospective DECs is that pretty soon they won't be needed. Our FOs will have the time to upgrade, and we'll be hiring more FOs. If you get stuck as one of the last DECs hired, you're looking at being a junior CA for a loooong time.

That’s already happening.

Late-ish 2017 new hires getting a taste of composite or hard lines this month, being bumped back to middle of reserve list next month. It’s not as if this comes as any surprise.

Cyio
05-31-2018, 07:12 AM
I think the DECs are doing fine so long as they stay in LGA. Most are holding lines within a few months. It’s when they try and leave that base that I think the problems arise.

Anyway, we want more DECs, at least those of us already on the seniority list as they take spots we mostly don’t want to fill. In their defense they are getting large payouts to do it.

havick206
05-31-2018, 07:34 AM
I think the DECs are doing fine so long as they stay in LGA. Most are holding lines within a few months. It’s when they try and leave that base that I think the problems arise.

Anyway, we want more DECs, at least those of us already on the seniority list as they take spots we mostly don’t want to fill. In their defense they are getting large payouts to do it.

Have you even looked at the CA reserve list for next month?

Pedro4President
05-31-2018, 08:48 AM
Have you even looked at the CA reserve list for next month?

It's not too bad. I doubt any of them will stay much longer than a year or two. If they can get on with a major or even lcc then they will be much better off. We lost 12 CAs in may.

use2fly
05-31-2018, 10:31 AM
I think the DECs are doing fine so long as they stay in LGA. Most are holding lines within a few months. It’s when they try and leave that base that I think the problems arise.

Anyway, we want more DECs, at least those of us already on the seniority list as they take spots we mostly don’t want to fill. In their defense they are getting large payouts to do it.

NO! This is one of our biggest problems! The more DECs the company can hire, the more leverage they have over the pilot group. As long as the company can staff it's planes, they have no reason to raise pay or give us better QOL. The DECs are killing us.

Pedro4President
05-31-2018, 10:49 AM
NO! This is one of our biggest problems! The more DECs the company can hire, the more leverage they have over the pilot group. As long as the company can staff it's planes, they have no reason to raise pay or give us better QOL. The DECs are killing us.

It sit going to happen. Higher pay isn't going to happen when we are hiring as much as we can handle.

use2fly
05-31-2018, 12:40 PM
It sit going to happen. Higher pay isn't going to happen when we are hiring as much as we can handle.

For someone that likes to point out the obvious, you're kinda missing the obvious.

Cyio
05-31-2018, 01:18 PM
NO! This is one of our biggest problems! The more DECs the company can hire, the more leverage they have over the pilot group. As long as the company can staff it's planes, they have no reason to raise pay or give us better QOL. The DECs are killing us.

The money isn’t going to come for awhile and the percentage of DECs isn’t enough to swing that topic one way or the other.

Management knows their captain shortage is almost over with the 2016/2017 new hire fo’s all nearing their time.

In addition, we have like a six month waiting list to come to this company, another reason they won’t budge on money.

The flow is working for now so that doesn’t help our cause either. Don’t get me wrong I would love higher pay, however I don’t see it happening in the near future and would at least prefer more of the LGA 145 slots being taken up by DECs.

Cyio
05-31-2018, 01:19 PM
For someone that likes to point out the obvious, you're kinda missing the obvious.

The thing you are not getting is that we have backlogs of pilot apps. Until that goes away they won’t pay more. The flow appeares to be working as management knew it would, for now.

SullyJR
05-31-2018, 03:58 PM
If only we were mainline AA... Delta gave their pilots a raise and then AA pilots got a raise because “it was the right thing to do.” If management is so concerned about building trust among employees then the wholly owned should have their pay raised to match Endeavor.

Pedro4President
05-31-2018, 03:58 PM
For someone that likes to point out the obvious, you're kinda missing the obvious.

I get your point. I just don't buy it. The company can contractually hire DEC. Hiring DEC decreases time on reserve for all pilots which in turn increases base pay and QOL and days off. The main difference in our view points rest on leverage. You think we have or have the ability to obtain it. The ONLY leverage you have over this company is to leave. Find a better job.

flyguy727
06-01-2018, 11:36 AM
If you have 1000 hr in 121 why would you go to a reginal, when you can already to a heavery operator? Guys need to expand their horizons. I know some guys are persuading the tittle of "Airline Pilot" you look cool going down the terminal and talking to your friends, and that's cool, that's what you want. But there are a lot of options out there. My friend got a job flying a 737 with less than 2000 hrs total, and I just got a job on a 757 with less than 1000 turbine. So there are many options out there. Don't luck yourselves in to a single area of this industry.

Slowhawk
06-02-2018, 08:13 AM
Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the DEC thing is set up. If you come to Envoy as a DEC, doesn’t that still make you junior to every FO at the company? In this case, wouldn’t a LGA DEC always be junior to every other upgrading pilot at the airline, and pretty much permenantly be on reserve, being bounced to whatever the junior base was?

For example at my regional we had some guys come in and upgrade after a month, they remained on reserve and junior to every upgrading pilot for 2 years until the guys upgrading had a later DOH.

havick206
06-02-2018, 08:29 AM
Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the DEC thing is set up. If you come to Envoy as a DEC, doesn’t that still make you junior to every FO at the company? In this case, wouldn’t a LGA DEC always be junior to every other upgrading pilot at the airline, and pretty much permenantly be on reserve, being bounced to whatever the junior base was?

For example at my regional we had some guys come in and upgrade after a month, they remained on reserve and junior to every upgrading pilot for 2 years until the guys upgrading had a later DOH.

Also what aircraft type is this DEC position available for? The E175?

Yes that is correct as with any other airline that uses a seniority based system.

pitchattitude
06-02-2018, 08:30 AM
Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the DEC thing is set up. If you come to Envoy as a DEC, doesn’t that still make you junior to every FO at the company? In this case, wouldn’t a LGA DEC always be junior to every other upgrading pilot at the airline, and pretty much permenantly be on reserve, being bounced to whatever the junior base was?

For example at my regional we had some guys come in and upgrade after a month, they remained on reserve and junior to every upgrading pilot for 2 years until the guys upgrading had a later DOH.

Also what aircraft type is this DEC position available for? The E175?
You understand everything correctly except the aircraft. Envoy could probably get as many DECs as they wanted if it was the Shiny Jet. But the junior base is LGA and there are only 145s.

Cyio
06-02-2018, 11:53 AM
Maybe I’m misunderstanding how the DEC thing is set up. If you come to Envoy as a DEC, doesn’t that still make you junior to every FO at the company? In this case, wouldn’t a LGA DEC always be junior to every other upgrading pilot at the airline, and pretty much permenantly be on reserve, being bounced to whatever the junior base was?

For example at my regional we had some guys come in and upgrade after a month, they remained on reserve and junior to every upgrading pilot for 2 years until the guys upgrading had a later DOH.

Well yes and no. So this is actually a little more in depth than I think most people care to believe.

1. The more DEC's we have, the better for the traditional pilot group. I say this because the DEC's fill the LGA location and the 145, so that leaves more open spots on other locations and fleets because the company doesn't have to place every new hire there.

2. I almost look at the DEC's as their own seniority list to a certain point. Once we get enough of them, they will all pretty much be in LGA with only a select few of our traditional Captains still there due to living at that location. So in a sense, they will move up the seniority list "relative" to the base they are in.

3. Most of the DEC's already have a pretty good amount of experience and are looking to finish off their hours and move on anyway, so I think they are going to be moving quickly. They came for the big payout and the last segment of hours they needed and will take the first non-regional job they are offered. The ones I have spoken to by and large have no heavy desire to go to AA, so the loyalty isn't there.

With those points, I actually think we will hit a point that LGA will be stocked with primarily DEC captains that will move up there respective list, in base, and be holding lines. Once they get the hours, they move on and the cycle repeats.

Cujo665
06-02-2018, 12:21 PM
Well yes and no. So this is actually a little more in depth than I think most people care to believe.

1. The more DEC's we have, the better for the traditional pilot group. I say this because the DEC's fill the LGA location and the 145, so that leaves more open spots on other locations and fleets because the company doesn't have to place every new hire there.

2. I almost look at the DEC's as their own seniority list to a certain point. Once we get enough of them, they will all pretty much be in LGA with only a select few of our traditional Captains still there due to living at that location. So in a sense, they will move up the seniority list "relative" to the base they are in.

3. Most of the DEC's already have a pretty good amount of experience and are looking to finish off their hours and move on anyway, so I think they are going to be moving quickly. They came for the big payout and the last segment of hours they needed and will take the first non-regional job they are offered. The ones I have spoken to by and large have no heavy desire to go to AA, so the loyalty isn't there.

With those points, I actually think we will hit a point that LGA will be stocked with primarily DEC captains that will move up there respective list, in base, and be holding lines. Once they get the hours, they move on and the cycle repeats.

very good analysis

EmbaeDriver
06-04-2018, 01:28 PM
If you have 1000 hr in 121 why would you go to a reginal, when you can already to a heavery operator? Guys need to expand their horizons. I know some guys are persuading the tittle of "Airline Pilot" you look cool going down the terminal and talking to your friends, and that's cool, that's what you want. But there are a lot of options out there. My friend got a job flying a 737 with less than 2000 hrs total, and I just got a job on a 757 with less than 1000 turbine. So there are many options out there. Don't luck yourselves in to a single area of this industry.

What u fly?

Fordmun
06-05-2018, 03:04 PM
You understand everything correctly except the aircraft. Envoy could probably get as many DECs as they wanted if it was the Shiny Jet. But the junior base is LGA and there are only 145s.

As a former 145 driver, I understand LGA is the Jr base. With that being said, is there any chance of a DEC holding Miami within a year? Is there hot reserve or airport standby in LGA or MIA? Also, is the DEC program AQP?

Thanks folks!

Jecain7
06-05-2018, 04:37 PM
is there a promissory note or contract obligation for a DEC?

havick206
06-05-2018, 05:53 PM
As a former 145 driver, I understand LGA is the Jr base. With that being said, is there any chance of a DEC holding Miami within a year? Is there hot reserve or airport standby in LGA or MIA? Also, is the DEC program AQP?

Thanks folks!

Yes DEC’s are holding MIA under a year as it currently stands. Yes there is airport standby at all bases, and as the junior CA on the reserve list you will likely get airport standby for a while, with a slight reprieve as you get close to your 100 hour consolidation date and you get pre assigned flying. Then back to airport standby.

The LGA CA reserve list has been zeroing out most days, MIA reserve guys barely fly.

Hope this helps.

Bruno82
06-06-2018, 08:43 AM
Does anyone know how many total CAs there are in LGA and how many are on the reserve list? Thanks.

Fordmun
06-06-2018, 08:57 AM
Yes DEC’s are holding MIA under a year as it currently stands. Yes there is airport standby at all bases, and as the junior CA on the reserve list you will likely get airport standby for a while, with a slight reprieve as you get close to your 100 hour consolidation date and you get pre assigned flying. Then back to airport standby.

The LGA CA reserve list has been zeroing out most days, MIA reserve guys barely fly.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! Do the CA reserves fly a lot in LGA? If you were awarded MIA down the road, can you be displaced and sent back to LGA? Heard a rumor your 140’s are coming out of the desert for more EMB flying?

havick206
06-06-2018, 09:02 AM
Thank you! Do the CA reserves fly a lot in LGA? If you were awarded MIA down the road, can you be displaced and sent back to LGA? Heard a rumor your 140’s are coming out of the desert for more EMB flying?

140’s out of the desert is no rumor. Most of them are already out of the desert and flying the line.

As for the rest of your questions i haven’t bothered to keep tabs.

Aviatrx
06-06-2018, 09:25 AM
Thank you! Do the CA reserves fly a lot in LGA? If you were awarded MIA down the road, can you be displaced and sent back to LGA? Heard a rumor your 140’s are coming out of the desert for more EMB flying?

I would not say reserves fly a lot, but they are used a lot. LGA CA n6d list is pretty short, and they zero out every day right now.

The 140’s are busy flying and are having many MTX issues due to there stint in the Texas dessert.

You can always be displace out of MIA, back to LGA. Thank would say it is unlikely to happen in our current trend

Bruno82
06-06-2018, 09:46 AM
What is the easier commute? DFW to MIA or DFW to LGA?

Virga show
06-06-2018, 09:55 AM
What is the easier commute? DFW to MIA or DFW to LGA?

I’ve done both and with the A12 passes for LGA. The easier commute is hands down LGA. MIA maybe the worst commute in the whole country because everybody that flies American that goes to the islands for vacation has to pass through Miami. There are usually 10-15 D1’s used on the mid day flights to and from DFW. I usually always had to go through Houston to get home.

Aviatrx
06-06-2018, 09:56 AM
Both blow due to the high volume of Commuting/reposition crews/ training. I will let someone else speak to this point who has lived it, but my theory is NY should be easier. You have more off line options with Delta, Spirit, and Jet Blue.

Aviatrx
06-06-2018, 09:57 AM
Both blow due to the high volume of Commuting/reposition crews/ training. I will let someone else speak to this point who has lived it, but my theory is NY should be easier. You have more off line options with Delta, Spirit, and Jet Blue.

NY and ORD are two of the best commuter airports in the country

Skip0927
06-06-2018, 09:59 AM
As a DEC, I can say that I am used almost every day that I am on RSV. I don’t fly alot though. On a 4 day stretch this past week, I flew 6 legs and 12 hrs over 4 days. Only the most senior get the 4 day trips with high flying time. The bottom 2/3rds of the rsv list are usually covering turns and ovnts. Not alot of flying but definitely not just sitting around in NYC.

havick206
06-06-2018, 10:32 AM
I would not say reserves fly a lot, but they are used a lot. LGA CA n6d list is pretty short, and they zero out every day right now.

The 140’s are busy flying and are having many MTX issues due to there stint in the Texas dessert.

You can always be displace out of MIA, back to LGA. Thank would say it is unlikely to happen in our current trend

Also point to note MIA has planned expansion so it’s unlikely you would be displaced out if there.

Pedro4President
06-06-2018, 10:39 AM
Does anyone know how many total CAs there are in LGA and how many are on the reserve list? Thanks.

139/40 my count could be off by one or two.

Azorian
06-06-2018, 11:31 AM
I've done the whole living in a base you didnt want for many months, going through commuter hell, paying for a crash pad, getting the crap schedules. You have to determine at some point what your QOL is worth.

There are companies out there who may not offer the massive bonuses but can hire you directly into left seat in the base you prefer.

Personally i skipped the direct entry captain spot at envoy just for that reason, and went with another company that gave me the same annual salary, put me in my home base right down the road and gives me minimal time on reserve but there was no attractive sign on bonus.

its up to your individual needs and goals really

deskflier
06-06-2018, 12:33 PM
Also point to note MIA has planned expansion so it’s unlikely you would be displaced out if there.

Is it expansion on the 145 side? Is PDT still getting the 145s?

f16jetmech
06-06-2018, 01:22 PM
140’s out of the desert is no rumor. Most of them are already out of the desert and flying the line.

As for the rest of your questions i haven’t bothered to keep tabs.

I just did an SJT turn and there's 8 more sitting out there.

Jamesthunder
06-06-2018, 03:22 PM
140’s out of the desert is no rumor. Most of them are already out of the desert and flying the line.

As for the rest of your questions i haven’t bothered to keep tabs.

There's about 11 still at SJT.

Pedro4President
06-06-2018, 03:22 PM
I just did an SJT turn and there's 8 more sitting out there.

Word is that that group or at least part of that group is in more need of maintenance repair due to hail damage or some other Mx issues.

EmbaeDriver
06-07-2018, 08:34 AM
I’ve done both and with the A12 passes for LGA. The easier commute is hands down LGA. MIA maybe the worst commute in the whole country because everybody that flies American that goes to the islands for vacation has to pass through Miami. There are usually 10-15 D1’s used on the mid day flights to and from DFW. I usually always had to go through Houston to get home.

I did both. Believe it or not for me was easier Miami, always got stuck for LGA because of the weight restrictions. The only day I had problems commuting out of Miami was on Dec 24th. Everything else, smooth. Maybe like 3 times the Jumpseat in 2 months. Everything else normal seats using only D2’s.

Virga show
06-07-2018, 06:09 PM
I did both. Believe it or not for me was easier Miami, always got stuck for LGA because of the weight restrictions. The only day I had problems commuting out of Miami was on Dec 24th. Everything else, smooth. Maybe like 3 times the Jumpseat in 2 months. Everything else normal seats using only D2’s.
https://i.giphy.com/media/yaYV8i5n1OjZe/giphy.gif

f16jetmech
06-07-2018, 06:54 PM
https://photos.app.goo.gl/xjl8xbLAcU63C6th2

Apparently I can't count... 9 more.

Sebastiaen
06-10-2018, 07:01 AM
Good afternoon,

I'm looking at the DEC gig, has anything changed? I am a new greencard holder and they only give you +-6 months to move to a job so it seems like I'm gonna have to leave my shiny 777 behind and join elsewhere. A major is undoable as I have a 90 day notice period and I can't apply, interview and get accepted within 93 days so I have to look at some other alternatives... I know I can get into LCC/Atlas (I have around 5500 of which 5000 Jet ((737/777)) however I'm looking to get some PIC time until a major picks me up.

Can someone give me a bit of a picture of how it is these days?

Thanks,

Seb. :cool:

KelvinHelmholtz
06-10-2018, 07:18 AM
Good afternoon,

I'm looking at the DEC gig, has anything changed? I am a new greencard holder and they only give you +-6 months to move to a job so it seems like I'm gonna have to leave my shiny 777 behind and join elsewhere. A major is undoable as I have a 90 day notice period and I can't apply, interview and get accepted within 93 days so I have to look at some other alternatives... I know I can get into LCC/Atlas (I have around 5500 of which 5000 Jet ((737/777)) however I'm looking to get some PIC time until a major picks me up.

Can someone give me a bit of a picture of how it is these days?

Thanks,

Seb. :cool:

Where do you fly the 777? Foreign airline time doesn’t count towards US part 121 upgrade minimums

Skip0927
06-14-2018, 05:06 PM
What a joke! Bases in all the right places?!?!! Are you kidding me. You will be stuck in NYC until after the rapture! 80 hrs a month as a rsv captain? 5 year flow? If only they would substantiate how they derive these assumptions! Go fly a kite, youll be better off. And good luck getting a day off that YOU need. CPO is abysmmal with “help.”

Cyio
06-14-2018, 06:09 PM
What a joke! Bases in all the right places?!?!! Are you kidding me. You will be stuck in NYC until after the rapture! 80 hrs a month as a rsv captain? 5 year flow? If only they would substantiate how they derive these assumptions! Go fly a kite, youll be better off. And good luck getting a day off that YOU need. CPO is abysmmal with “help.”
Yikes. I have heard the cpo is a pos, but other than that the few DECs I have spoken too seemed ok with their situation. Admittedly they had their own reasons for coming and it was the right fit for them.

I don’t think anyone is saying the DECs program is right for the general population of captains, however it is a niche that can be filled by those that serve to gain from it.

Whiskey4
06-14-2018, 06:36 PM
What a joke! Bases in all the right places?!?!! Are you kidding me. You will be stuck in NYC until after the rapture! 80 hrs a month as a rsv captain? 5 year flow? If only they would substantiate how they derive these assumptions! Go fly a kite, youll be better off. And good luck getting a day off that YOU need. CPO is abysmmal with “help.”

Haven’t some DECs already left NY?? I heard a few may hold lines as well. Not sure if that is still the case, though. You seem a bit “Chicken Little”. The truth around Envoy is always somewhere in the middle between the cheerleaders and the “sky is falling” folks.

havick206
06-14-2018, 06:41 PM
Haven’t some DECs already left NY?? I heard a few may hold lines as well. Not sure if that is still the case, though. You seem a bit “Chicken Little”. The truth around Envoy is always somewhere in the middle between the cheerleaders and the “sky is falling” folks.

Yes some bid to MIA, and are there this month as reserve CA’s.

Some street CA’s did hold a bottom hard line and composite line last month in LGA. They promptly got bumped back to reserve this month and I don’t really see that changing much as 2016 and early 2017 new hires start coming out if CA training. They might occasionally get a composite or relief line here and there and get bumped back to reserve.

That being said some of the DEC’s with decent backgrounds that needed to check to 121 box are starting to get interviews at jobs of their choice so I wouldn’t expect them to be hanging around all that long if they’ve already got a bunch of PIC time and no skeletons.

So like you said the truth is somewhere in the middle.

One thing I can’t fathom though, is can you please demonstrate how the advertised 5 year flow for a new hire (hired today or in the last 6-8 months) will actually come to fruition?

Skip0927
06-14-2018, 07:11 PM
Sky def is not falling. I just think the sales pitch to come in the door and reality are miles apart. “Bases in all the right places” is a pretty misleading marketing statement when so far you have had a couple (read 2) of DECs move to MIA. I am just sharing my perspective that the “High Value” pitch on the way in the door is miles away from the constant “denied due to staffing” operational reality that perseveres thru our company.

Bruno82
06-14-2018, 08:42 PM
Any idea of how many DECs have started class up to this point?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cyio
06-15-2018, 04:41 AM
Yes some bid to MIA, and are there this month as reserve CA’s.

Some street CA’s did hold a bottom hard line and composite line last month in LGA. They promptly got bumped back to reserve this month and I don’t really see that changing much as 2016 and early 2017 new hires start coming out if CA training. They might occasionally get a composite or relief line here and there and get bumped back to reserve.

That being said some of the DEC’s with decent backgrounds that needed to check to 121 box are starting to get interviews at jobs of their choice so I wouldn’t expect them to be hanging around all that long if they’ve already got a bunch of PIC time and no skeletons.

So like you said the truth is somewhere in the middle.

One thing I can’t fathom though, is can you please demonstrate how the advertised 5 year flow for a new hire (hired today or in the last 6-8 months) will actually come to fruition?
I question the flow number for new hires as well. The only thing I can imagine is that they are working with attrition prediction numbers that we are not.

Pedro4President
06-15-2018, 05:04 AM
Yes some bid to MIA, and are there this month as reserve CA’s.

Some street CA’s did hold a bottom hard line and composite line last month in LGA. They promptly got bumped back to reserve this month and I don’t really see that changing much as 2016 and early 2017 new hires start coming out if CA training. They might occasionally get a composite or relief line here and there and get bumped back to reserve.

That being said some of the DEC’s with decent backgrounds that needed to check to 121 box are starting to get interviews at jobs of their choice so I wouldn’t expect them to be hanging around all that long if they’ve already got a bunch of PIC time and no skeletons.

So like you said the truth is somewhere in the middle.

One thing I can’t fathom though, is can you please demonstrate how the advertised 5 year flow for a new hire (hired today or in the last 6-8 months) will actually come to fruition?

I am interested in seeing how the new LOA with LGA A passes and free hotels effects everything. I would not be surprised if ORD or MIA end up being the junior base. LOL.... talk about a shock "IF" a DEC get displaced out of LGA and no longer gets the free hotels and A passes he was promised.

flysooner9
06-15-2018, 05:36 AM
Maybe If it was longer then just 3 months.

NoValueAviator
06-15-2018, 06:05 AM
Probably won’t get out under 3 mos, they only run bids every 3 mos or so.

RUkidding
07-03-2018, 03:53 PM
Coming in for the HR Direct Entry Captain interview. Anyone have any experiences to share?

Fleet Warp
07-08-2018, 01:00 PM
Some questions about DEC:

1. Can DEC's be displaced back to FO?

2. Does Envoy do the Captain flying as first officer thing?

3. Is there a training contract for DEC's or to receive the signing bonus?

4. Does Envoy still have a 6 month wait for a training class?

Thanks!

highfarfast
07-08-2018, 01:45 PM
Some questions about DEC:

1. Can DEC's be displaced back to FO?

2. Does Envoy do the Captain flying as first officer thing?

3. Is there a training contract for DEC's or to receive the signing bonus?

4. Does Envoy still have a 6 month wait for a training class?

Thanks!

1) In theory, yes. But not likely to happen in actuality. As the wave of FOs become eligible for captain, a DEC has a good chance to be displaces from one base to another and such but the need is for captains right now, not FOs. So being displaced back to FO doesn't seem likely.

2) We did for a while but, as I understand it, we stopped. I'm not sure if it was a contractual thing or an operation need thing (we don't need FOs right now) which I'm sure is relevant to your question. Someone else will need to clarify.

3) There was a contract for the FO bonus (repay full anount if leaving in a year, repay prorated amount between year one and year 2). I'd be shocked if there wasn't something similar for the DEC bonus.

4) Sounds like you'd be a DEC candidate based on your questions. For a DEC, I don't think there has been a 6 mo wait. It's FOs that are having to wait.

Whiskey4
07-08-2018, 05:03 PM
Some questions about DEC:

1. Can DEC's be displaced back to FO?

2. Does Envoy do the Captain flying as first officer thing?

3. Is there a training contract for DEC's or to receive the signing bonus?

4. Does Envoy still have a 6 month wait for a training class?

Thanks!

1. Possible, but unlikely given the current situation of AA dropping cortract airlines and bringing flying back into the WOs.

2. Again...possible, but unlikely. This is nothing like the old TSA “Captain-Qualified” First Officer deal. DECs will be captains, and if they are assigned to fly as an FO then it will be at their CA pay rate. I’m right seat qualified and have never been asked to fly that seat.

3. Same 2-Year commitment as everyone else receiving a bonus. No extra commitment for the extra cash.

4. Not for DECs

EmbaeDriver
07-08-2018, 09:24 PM
1. Possible, but unlikely given the current situation of AA dropping cortract airlines and bringing flying back into the WOs.

2. Again...possible, but unlikely. This is nothing like the old TSA “Captain-Qualified” First Officer deal. DECs will be captains, and if they are assigned to fly as an FO then it will be at their CA pay rate. I’m right seat qualified and have never been asked to fly that seat.

3. Same 2-Year commitment as everyone else receiving a bonus. No extra commitment for the extra cash.

4. Not for DECs

I saw two captains flying together today. A 1850ish and a 2000 something. Impossible a 1850ish giving IOE.

Whiskey4
07-09-2018, 04:08 AM
I saw two captains flying together today. A 1850ish and a 2000 something. Impossible a 1850ish giving IOE.

These days you never know...just 300 PIC and you too can be an LCA. However, I did say it’s possible. It seems strange that CAs would be paired together when the recent staffing issue appears to have been a imbalance favoring FOs. Anyways, still paid as a CA, which is the important part.

Pedro4President
07-09-2018, 04:02 PM
I saw two captains flying together today. A 1850ish and a 2000 something. Impossible a 1850ish giving IOE.

I'm sure it happens when ever the situation arises but it definitely is a rare occurrence. I have been called by CS to ask if I was right away qualified.