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View Full Version : Anyone commuting to/from Europe?


Javichu
05-22-2018, 02:23 PM
Hello guys.

I'm still a p135 FO and who knows what could happen in 6-8 years but being from Europe myself, I wonder how doable that commute would be.

I know the key is "seniority", but I'd like to hear from you experienced guys, if you or a friend of a friend is actually doing that commute and how bad or good is it.

Ideal scenario I guess it'd be flying long haul for one of the big ones, and having a non stop flight to the chosen European city.

Thoughts?


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rickair7777
05-22-2018, 02:42 PM
Hello guys.

I'm still a p135 FO and who knows what could happen in 6-8 years but being from Europe myself, I wonder how doable that commute would be.

I know the key is "seniority", but I'd like to hear from you experienced guys, if you or a friend of a friend is actually doing that commute and how bad or good is it.

Ideal scenario I guess it'd be flying long haul for one of the big ones, and having a non stop flight to the chosen European city.

Thoughts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I've seen it done, from the East coast of the US, it's not too much worse than a transcon commute. Key would be to bid larger blocks of days off in a row, with presumably corresponding larger blocks of days on.


In fact, I've seen worse, ie East coast to HI, and even CONUS to Africa and Asia. Just depends one what it's worth to you.

Javichu
05-22-2018, 05:07 PM
I've seen it done, from the East coast of the US, it's not too much worse than a transcon commute. Key would be to bid larger blocks of days off in a row, with presumably corresponding larger blocks of days on.


In fact, I've seen worse, ie East coast to HI, and even CONUS to Africa and Asia. Just depends one what it's worth to you.

East coast to HI must be hard indeed!. Good thing about this commute is you grab your flight late evening, sleep at night and get to Europe early in the morning, you don't lose that much time.

It'd be well worth it, for family reasons (taking care of parents), while enjoying american aviation. :)


rightside02
05-22-2018, 05:46 PM
East coast to HI was the worst I saw . Flight attendant , I think she was mid 30's however possibly looked like that of a 145 year old Asian wiseman . I blame the commute .

Javichu
05-22-2018, 07:31 PM
Lol


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Sluggo_63
05-22-2018, 08:34 PM
Or you can try to get hired by FedEx and live in their European domicile (Cologne, Germany).

symbian simian
05-22-2018, 10:43 PM
So it has been a while, but I did the reverse. Fro 00 till 05 I worked in Europe and lived in DC. Had United benefits, travelled first class, worked 2 blocks per month. Was fine when I was 30, not sure I would want to do it again.

Javichu
05-22-2018, 11:00 PM
Or you can try to get hired by FedEx and live in their European domicile (Cologne, Germany).

I would LOVE that, and of course I planned on trying when the times comes. That'd be awesome

Javichu
05-22-2018, 11:02 PM
So it has been a while, but I did the reverse. Fro 00 till 05 I worked in Europe and lived in DC. Had United benefits, travelled first class, worked 2 blocks per month. Was fine when I was 30, not sure I would want to do it again.

Huh interesting!. After all the commuting and going back and forth, how many days off did you enjoy at home on average?.

European carriers nowadays offer you 10-12 days off per month, so even if you commute, since you get more days off here in the US, you'd end up being at home more or less the same time. I may be wrong.

zondaracer
05-22-2018, 11:22 PM
A friend of mine commuted Denver to Finland for a few years.

Long Haul
05-23-2018, 12:50 AM
I have commuted from my home in the US to my job at a European legacy carrier for the last 11 years of my 25 year-long career. It works well for me, although I have an easy time of it in that I am pretty much guaranteed to get on the flight and to get a bunk to sleep in. I also only block about 65 hours per month.
Only you can know how important it is for you to be living in your home country, but for me the urge to return to the land of my birth only got stronger as I got older. My wife, on the other hand, who is from a different country, couldnít care less if she ever goes back. It all depends on who you are and what you value. There are some practical implications of a trans-Atlantic commute, though, that you need to consider. First, you will try and minimize the number of commuting trips you make, meaning that you will bid long trips with long days off. Can the family deal with you being gone for a week at a time? This will also mean that you will have long bouts of jet-lag. Second, you will stay a long-haul FO way longer than you should, possibly skipping domestic Captain altogether, like I did. This is important, because not only do you need to enjoy the long-haul lifestyle, (hard if youíre a real ďstick and rudderĒ guy) but also because you will find that moving into the left seat after years, or even decades, of barely hand-flying at all in the right seat can make the upgrade quite challenging. Many people (and Iíve seen a lot) donít make it through the course. Third, you need to be prepared for currency fluctuations. Every tick in the EUR/USD exchange rate means a change in my disposable income, and I have seen it move thirty percent or more relatively quickly, sometimes to my benefit, but also to my detriment.

All in all I would say that the trans-Atlantic commute is doable, but not a wise basis on which to plan your life. Although the US is definitely the aviation place to be at the moment, that has been different in the past and could be different in the future. There are some real advantages to working in Europe, too, like the fact that I will retire having never been furloughed, and with my pension intact. And the six weeks of vacation per year is nice, too!

Good luck with your choices, and may you have a long and happy career in this great industry.

Sputnik
05-23-2018, 08:20 AM
Hello guys.

I'm still a p135 FO and who knows what could happen in 6-8 years but being from Europe myself, I wonder how doable that commute would be.

I know the key is "seniority", but I'd like to hear from you experienced guys, if you or a friend of a friend is actually doing that commute and how bad or good is it.

Ideal scenario I guess it'd be flying long haul for one of the big ones, and having a non stop flight to the chosen European city.

Thoughts?


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There's a DL CA in NYC who lives outside Frankfurt. I wouldn't have wanted to do it but it worked for him. He bid all his flying into one roughly two week block so he would only have to commute once per month.

Javichu
05-23-2018, 08:57 AM
There's a DL CA in NYC who lives outside Frankfurt. I wouldn't have wanted to do it but it worked for him. He bid all his flying into one roughly two week block so he would only have to commute once per month.

That would be amazing, pretty much 2on2off. it'd work for me for sure.

Javichu
05-23-2018, 09:06 AM
I have commuted from my home in the US to my job at a European legacy carrier for the last 11 years of my 25 year-long career. It works well for me, although I have an easy time of it in that I am pretty much guaranteed to get on the flight and to get a bunk to sleep in. I also only block about 65 hours per month.
Only you can know how important it is for you to be living in your home country, but for me the urge to return to the land of my birth only got stronger as I got older. My wife, on the other hand, who is from a different country, couldnít care less if she ever goes back. It all depends on who you are and what you value. There are some practical implications of a trans-Atlantic commute, though, that you need to consider. First, you will try and minimize the number of commuting trips you make, meaning that you will bid long trips with long days off. Can the family deal with you being gone for a week at a time? This will also mean that you will have long bouts of jet-lag. Second, you will stay a long-haul FO way longer than you should, possibly skipping domestic Captain altogether, like I did. This is important, because not only do you need to enjoy the long-haul lifestyle, (hard if youíre a real ďstick and rudderĒ guy) but also because you will find that moving into the left seat after years, or even decades, of barely hand-flying at all in the right seat can make the upgrade quite challenging. Many people (and Iíve seen a lot) donít make it through the course. Third, you need to be prepared for currency fluctuations. Every tick in the EUR/USD exchange rate means a change in my disposable income, and I have seen it move thirty percent or more relatively quickly, sometimes to my benefit, but also to my detriment.

All in all I would say that the trans-Atlantic commute is doable, but not a wise basis on which to plan your life. Although the US is definitely the aviation place to be at the moment, that has been different in the past and could be different in the future. There are some real advantages to working in Europe, too, like the fact that I will retire having never been furloughed, and with my pension intact. And the six weeks of vacation per year is nice, too!

Good luck with your choices, and may you have a long and happy career in this great industry.

It seems like you have a really good deal indeed. But I'm not sure there are real advantages in the european aviation nowadays.
Type rating self-funded in most places, less time off compared to the US, much less pay. So basically you fly much more for much less. Talking about rookies (like me). Experienced guys is a different game.

Thanks for sharing your story and for your good wishes, I really appreciate it.

DickBurns
05-23-2018, 09:58 AM
There is a Spirit Capt in DTW that commutes to Amsterdam. Not sure how that works out for him, though.

cactusmike
05-23-2018, 10:14 AM
I have a friend who is a 777 f/o based in NY. His wife is completing a degree in Rome so he is commuting to FCO. He likes it, as has been said above, having a bunk available is key.

I commute transcon from AZ to NY. I donít think thatís any easier than going to Western Europe from a time perspective . I can think of a lot of places in Europe I would enjoy living in, but you would also have to factor in the number of flights to your base. I love Scotland, but if I were to commute out of EDI or GLA Iíd only have 1 flight nonstop each day to NY, and thatís only seasonal. MAD or CDG or LHR is different, but you have to factor in your transportation home once you land.

symbian simian
05-23-2018, 08:25 PM
Huh interesting!. After all the commuting and going back and forth, how many days off did you enjoy at home on average?.

European carriers nowadays offer you 10-12 days off per month, so even if you commute, since you get more days off here in the US, you'd end up being at home more or less the same time. I may be wrong.

I worked for an ACMI operator, 10 on 5 off, 38 days vacation. When I started it was often 10/10, and for a while they let me use one vac day per rotation so 9 on 6 off, everyone else lived in Europe so got airlined back and forth during office hours, I got allowance and supposedly travel days to get to work. Towards the end vacation got denied, travel days disappeared, took a pay cut. I guess I have a hard time taking a hint....

Boeing Aviator
05-24-2018, 05:35 AM
I'm a United 757/767 CA and I've flown with a few pilots who commutted from Europe and to Newark.

Flown with pilots the last few years who commutted from:

Italy
Norway
Israel
Poland
Germany

I know we have several Flight Attendants that do as well. Certainly can be done, but not an easy commute.

Dolphinflyer
05-24-2018, 06:46 AM
Heard of a FA that commutes from MIA to some place in northern Thailand. No FAR problems, backs up flying month to month for one long commute, probably 5-6 times a year. Dude might be living like a million/year guy here.

freezingflyboy
05-24-2018, 07:23 AM
That would be amazing, pretty much 2on2off. it'd work for me for sure.

Based on what airline you're looking at, 2 on, 2 off is most likely a pipe dream, especially while. About the best you can probably hope for would be 3-4 on with 1-3 off. If you're trying to squeeze it together/minimize commutes then 4 day trips with a 30 hour layover backed into each other is one way to go. Do that 3 or 4 times a month and then be off for 1-4 weeks.

Busflyer
05-24-2018, 05:08 PM
Based on what airline you're looking at, 2 on, 2 off is most likely a pipe dream, especially while. About the best you can probably hope for would be 3-4 on with 1-3 off. If you're trying to squeeze it together/minimize commutes then 4 day trips with a 30 hour layover backed into each other is one way to go. Do that 3 or 4 times a month and then be off for 1-4 weeks.

Come to UPS and you can have all the 2 week on/2week off you want

freezingflyboy
05-24-2018, 05:46 PM
Come to UPS and you can have all the 2 week on/2week off you want

In my head "2 on 2 off" translated to 2 days on, 2 days off. I'm realising now that when the OP said 2 on/2 off, he was referring to weeks on/off. Definitely doable at most places. Hell, sometimes it gets forced on you!

My bad :o

Javichu
05-25-2018, 01:12 PM
In my head "2 on 2 off" translated to 2 days on, 2 days off. I'm realising now that when the OP said 2 on/2 off, he was referring to weeks on/off. Definitely doable at most places. Hell, sometimes it gets forced on you!



My bad :o



Oh I'd be glad if they force me to do that haha :)

Yeah 2 week on 2 off is what would work best for my situation. We'll see how things work in the next couple of years.

UPS/FEDEX is the main goal. I always preferred cargo over passengers actually.


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