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View Full Version : 2nd Year F/O


VASBYT
05-23-2018, 07:09 PM
Greetings,

Just wish to get a little feedback from ya'll.

Just over a year ago a friend recommended me to join his 91 operation as a F/O on the Citation (VII). Initially he negotiated 55K (1099 contract pilot) with no jet time, only turboprop. In the end, the company offered me the position for 45K since 10K would be covering the SIC type required. On top of that, they wanted a one year "commitment." One year has come and gone and they have asked me to stay on for another several months since I wish to move onto 121. Just my preference.

Moving into the second year, they are offering me the initial 55K, which is not a raise IMO. They offer no benefits, and the schedule not consistent. We hardly fly 10 hours a month.

My question to you other corporate folks is: What is the current industry average, pay wise, for a second year F/O on a Citation VII or similiar? Do ya'll do you receive any type of benefits such as medical and 401k?

I am trying to weigh my options and decide whether I should stick around or move on as planned.

Thanks.


Mink
05-23-2018, 07:36 PM
Initial reaction to what you've posted: Move On. Now.

Salary depends on a lot of things, including location. But I'd say an SIC for the type of airplane and the type of schedule they expect = at least $85k, especially with no benefits. The fact that they made you "pay" for the type rating just adds to the d-bag factor of the employer. If they want the right person for the job, training him / her is just the cost of doing business. Clearly they just want the least expensive body filling the seat up front, and care about nothing else.

Time for this employer to feel the effects of the pilot hiring landscape. Leave ASAP. Not sure of your overall qualifications, but I would think you could get on with a regional and be making more money and be on a pretty direct path to a better 121 job in short order.

67Creek
05-23-2018, 07:40 PM
What is the current industry average, pay wise, for a second year F/O on a Citation VII or similiar? Do ya'll do you receive any type of benefits such as medical and 401k?

Whether your pay is appropriate has a lot to do with the company's expectations. If they don't expect you keep yourself available for them (meaning you have the flexibility to work elsewhere, and decline their trips), your pay isn't bad at all. On the other hand, if they're expecting you to dedicate 250 days a year to them, that's only $220/day. That's very low for contract work.

So, it's hard to compare your situation to other FOs situations because the work stipulations, which can vary a lot, are such a big part of the equation. That being said, it doesn't sound to me like you owe the company anything. Considering you paid for your own training, it's absurd that they ever asked for a commitment in the first place.

Also, it sounds to me like you should be an employee. Putting you on salary, requiring a commitment, and arranging the training are all red flags. The IRS might find them in violation of certain regulations.

Hopefully you've been paying your quarterly self-employment taxes and being prudent with record keeping. If you have, you'll realize that you'll pay a lot more in taxes than an employee making $55,000 would. As such, make sure you don't compare your income to W2 income directly. You need to be paid more as a contractor to have a "take home" equivalent to the W2 guy.

You might be in a good spot to take advantage of Piedmont's awful training footprint (it can be beneficial in certain circumstances). Basically, you go to Indoc, where you get a seniority number, start getting pay and benefits (including flight benefits), and get sent home for a few months while you wait for ground school. Many of us double-dipped at our old jobs and earned two incomes while we waited. It's something to look into.

If Piedmont's not your flavor, start pursuing whatever regional suits you. It doesn't sound, to me, like you owe anything to your current employer.


PotatoChip
05-23-2018, 09:24 PM
Easy.
Bye Felicia.

peaches
05-23-2018, 09:37 PM
same situation for me but almost half the pay ( not for too much longer though :D )... Id let your intentions be known once you've found something better, maybe the boss will throw a raise your way.

michael525Bdo
05-24-2018, 04:14 AM
Definitely move on. My company is paying first year pilots $45k to SIC in TBM700 and Cessna 208! $45k in a jet? Thatís ridiculous.

No reason in this job market that you stick with this company. They are going to quickly find out that their approach does not match up with this pilot market.

TapRack
05-24-2018, 04:27 AM
Like others have said, move on. Plus, you're only getting a little over 100 hours a year. If this job goes away someday, you're still going to be pretty low time (at least very little jet time) for the next job. I would hit a regional and start making yourself marketable. ;)

Sliceback
05-24-2018, 07:56 AM
Leave.

Pay raise? 121 is your goal? Leave anyway ASAP.

rogersmith
05-24-2018, 12:59 PM
Run. They are taking advantage of you.

Varietyjones
05-24-2018, 04:37 PM
dang you're getting bamboozled. Depending on how well out you know your schedule I would be contracting as much on the side as I could. Even in different airframe if needed.

VASBYT
05-24-2018, 06:32 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Not surprised by the replies. Advice duly noted. Moving on!

dbflyer
05-25-2018, 05:11 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Not surprised by the replies. Advice duly noted. Moving on!

Good decision, you won't regret it. And even if you do, it will be just that much easier to move on again to something even better:)

ThreeGreens
05-26-2018, 07:27 AM
Burn rubber.

BlimpDriver
06-04-2018, 10:53 AM
Who is the company, the more companies that are outed for being scumbags the better.

Tippy
06-05-2018, 02:49 PM
No reason in this job market that you stick with this company. They are going to quickly find out that their approach does not match up with this pilot market.


sadly there will always be pilots that will fill these kinds of jobs. I have a friend SIC on Challenger 300 42.5k and they require him to come in and wax the jet in between trips. He left for the airlines after years and they had no problem filling his spot.

HangOn
06-08-2018, 10:12 PM
sadly there will always be pilots that will fill these kinds of jobs. I have a friend SIC on Challenger 300 42.5k and they require him to come in and wax the jet in between trips. He left for the airlines after years and they had no problem filling his spot.

Always is a strong word....

For all our sake letís hope you are wrong.

Tippy
06-20-2018, 07:52 AM
Always is a strong word....

For all our sake letís hope you are wrong.


I would like to hope so as well, however until the 1500 hr rule gets repealed (if it ever does) there will be a ton of guys willing to do anything to skip the CFI route until they qualify for the regionals. FOs at low paying corporate gigs will be a wash rinse repeat situation.