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View Full Version : Commuter Policy


Cyio
05-25-2018, 06:36 AM
So having a debate amongst a few pilots in regards to the jumpsuit and our commuter policy.

We all agree on the two attempts, that is pretty clear. The discussion comes up from the following example.

Pilot Todd Packer is flying in a day early to ensure that he gets his two attempts in before a reserve shift the next day. Upon arriving to the airport, no seats in the cabin for the first flight are open so the jump seat is offered. Todd, being in casual cloths due to a non-work day declines the offer and is moved to the next flight. Same scenario plays out again and he is unable to get to work and wants to use a commuter policy.

My argument is that from my understanding, the jump seat is completely voluntary and not something has to be accepted if offered. Therefore, I don't believe that you have to accept it in regards to the commuter policy, especially if traveling on a non-work day.

What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance.


Skip0927
05-25-2018, 06:46 AM
Thats all well and good for using the commuter clause but my question is why are you trying to not get to work?

Cyio
05-25-2018, 06:51 AM
Thats all well and good for using the commuter clause but my question is why are you trying to not get to work?

Its more of a thought debate rather then an actual attempt to skirt a responsibility. The whole discussion came about because of a conversation about not legally being able to take the jump seat, due to medication or some such and has morphed into this.

There are some real world reasons for this occurring as well, say going to work following a vacation. Easier to just fly in the day early and then go all the way home, but because on vacation, you dont have work cloths on or ironed ready to go.

Again though, it really is more just a friendly discussion regarding our work rules.


highfarfast
05-25-2018, 07:24 AM
For one, you don't have to be in uniform to jumpseat.

It's been a while since I've read the commuter policy (I think it's an LOA and you should probably look there if you're going to try to deny using the jumpseat as an option to get to work) but I don't remember it spelling out that you had to jumpseat if offered. However, I doubt it would go well for you if the CPO knew the jumpseat was available and you did not take it.

That said, my one time experience in using the commuter policy, I don't think they even looked at the load (was Envoy equipment). All they wanted was a boarding pass to prove I was there.

As far as the comment about getting out of work; when you have a two leg commute to work and you're displaced for IOE (yay!) but they leave you one single turn that requires you to overnight with a commuter hotel (if you have one available still), that's when it's worth it to try and get out of work. Had that happen to me twice and swaps and drops would not let me out of it. I still did the turns. I play by the rules but I understand why some don't. If you really want to get out of work, I think there are better ways to do it.

CaptJackSparrow
05-25-2018, 07:32 AM
Well firstly anytime you nonrev you should be wearing clothes suitable to ride the jumpseat. You essentially should be anticipating to be in the jumpseat every time.

Secondly, if any chief pilot dug deep enough to find that you refused the jumpseat then that could be very bad. The contract states "two commuting attempts". If you could have got on a flight and didn't due to your own poor attire planning then that would be your fault and not considered an attempt.

Lastly, I'm sure a chief pilot would consider using any of those missed flights as an "attempt" to be lying and therefore a fireable offense.

If anyone is even considering this I'll say this: Do not ruin something that is good for our pilot group just because you think you can game the system.

Bigpimppilot
05-25-2018, 07:50 AM
I wear shorty shorts when commuting to work. Iím hoping they donít let me sit in the back

BluePAX
05-25-2018, 07:59 AM
I suppose Iím a bit confused here, correct me if Iím wrong but jumpseating has been fought for and protected to provide commuting opportunities? I think the ďI donít have proper clothing for the cockpitĒ line is paper thin and wouldnít hold if anyone found out. GL

ParkingatMIA
05-25-2018, 08:41 AM
Does the commuting policy count if you are trying to get to base from a different location than where you live. For example if I live in Miami, but am on vacation in Orlando and trying to commute from there. How about commuting from Hawaii ?

griff312
05-25-2018, 09:57 AM
Well firstly anytime you nonrev you should be wearing clothes suitable to ride the jumpseat. You essentially should be anticipating to be in the jumpseat every time.

Secondly, if any chief pilot dug deep enough to find that you refused the jumpseat then that could be very bad. The contract states "two commuting attempts". If you could have got on a flight and didn't due to your own poor attire planning then that would be your fault and not considered an attempt.

Lastly, I'm sure a chief pilot would consider using any of those missed flights as an "attempt" to be lying and therefore a fireable offense.

If anyone is even considering this I'll say this: Do not ruin something that is good for our pilot group just because you think you can game the system.

NO! Do NOT let this line of thinking become the standard. If you're commuting on a day off, you ARE NOT on duty, you do not have to maintain jumpseat standards, IF you have no intention of riding in the jumpseat. I say this with caution, as you still have to meet company non-rev travel criteria and etiquette. There are cases where you are fine to non-rev to work, but not specifically "JS worthy", (for lack of a better term); ie taking the last round of a disqualifying prescription, being fatigued, or maybe you're in civies, and had a drink at the airport bar. This is all assuming you're commuting a day early, and plan to be legal the next day. Also, maybe the CA denied your access for some reason. I've been denied due to a guy being on ioe, of all things.... But it happens.
My point is, don't let the company think that this is an acceptable thought process. Otherwise your commutes are about to get a LOT more onerous.

Cyio
05-25-2018, 10:32 AM
NO! Do NOT let this line of thinking become the standard. If you're commuting on a day off, you ARE NOT on duty, you do not have to maintain jumpseat standards, IF you have no intention of riding in the jumpseat. I say this with caution, as you still have to meet company non-rev travel criteria and etiquette. There are cases where you are fine to non-rev to work, but not specifically "JS worthy", (for lack of a better term); ie taking the last round of a disqualifying prescription, being fatigued, or maybe you're in civies, and had a drink at the airport bar. This is all assuming you're commuting a day early, and plan to be legal the next day. Also, maybe the CA denied your access for some reason. I've been denied due to a guy being on ioe, of all things.... But it happens.
My point is, don't let the company think that this is an acceptable thought process. Otherwise your commutes are about to get a LOT more onerous.

1. This is some of the examples I was alluding too, mainly thinking fatigue and prescription issues. I agree there are many times when you could be unable to jump seat.

(The rest of these dont necessarily apply to quoted text)

2. To the poster up above saying you should always commute in uniform, I have to say, I firmly disagree with you and think that is a crappy mind set. If I am traveling on a day off, to ensure I get to work early, I dont feel being in uniform should be the norm.

3. I want to point out, this was a thought debate, I am NOT encouraging the use of the commuter policy, especially in the case of intentionally trying to not get to work. However, when they are needed, I have used one, they are good to have and I think it is important to understand the rules.

4. Why would the chief pilot have an issue? Again, if it clearly states in the contract, I couldn't find it, that we MUST accept a JS then I agree, we would be in trouble. However, without that being listed, I dont see why or how we could be in trouble for it. Again, there are many valid reasons why you wouldn't sit in the JS.

Lastly, this all applies, at least in my line of thinking, to flying in on a day OFF, not the same day. The argument kind of goes away if you are traveling on a flying day.

Thanks All, always good to hear both sides of an issue, especially one that isn't clearly laid out.

highfarfast
05-25-2018, 10:32 AM
Also, maybe the CA denied your access for some reason.

Good point! I didn't considered this.

Cyio
05-25-2018, 10:40 AM
For one, you don't have to be in uniform to jumpseat.

It's been a while since I've read the commuter policy (I think it's an LOA and you should probably look there if you're going to try to deny using the jumpseat as an option to get to work) but I don't remember it spelling out that you had to jumpseat if offered. However, I doubt it would go well for you if the CPO knew the jumpseat was available and you did not take it.

That said, my one time experience in using the commuter policy, I don't think they even looked at the load (was Envoy equipment). All they wanted was a boarding pass to prove I was there.

As far as the comment about getting out of work; when you have a two leg commute to work and you're displaced for IOE (yay!) but they leave you one single turn that requires you to overnight with a commuter hotel (if you have one available still), that's when it's worth it to try and get out of work. Had that happen to me twice and swaps and drops would not let me out of it. I still did the turns. I play by the rules but I understand why some don't. If you really want to get out of work, I think there are better ways to do it.
You dont have to be in uniform, that is correct, but you do need to be in business casual and able to perform the duties of a crew member. In addition, I am not advocating getting out of work through the policy, just want to make that doubly apparent.

highfarfast
05-25-2018, 10:42 AM
2. To the poster up above saying you should always commute in uniform, I have to say, I firmly disagree with you and think that is a crappy mind set. If I am traveling on a day off, to ensure I get to work early, I dont feel being in uniform should be the norm.


4. Why would the chief pilot have an issue? Again, if it clearly states in the contract, I couldn't find it, that we MUST accept a JS then I agree, we would be in trouble. However, without that being listed, I dont see why or how we could be in trouble for it. Again, there are many valid reasons why you wouldn't sit in the JS.

2. I didn't see where anyone said you have to be in uniform to commute. Someone did say you should be in jumpseating attire anytime you nonrev and is good advice if you want to have the jumpseat as an option to get where you're going. But you do NOT have to wear your uniform to ride the jumpseat.

4. Work here long enough and you'll figure out why we tend to think that management will interpret the contract in the way that least suits you. That said, griff changed my mind with his post. You may get some grief from the CPO (IF they knew) but I think you'd have a good leg to stand on if it had to go as far as a grievance.

Edit: Looks like we were posting at the same time.

CaseTractor
05-25-2018, 10:52 AM
Can anyone provide insight on a 2 leg commute?

For example, do you give youseself 2 flights per leg, or 2 from home, or 2 to get to work? The contract is not clear on this.

In any case, does commuting the day before work show good faith no matter what happens?

griff312
05-25-2018, 11:12 AM
" What counts as 2 good faith attempts, when you have a 2 leg commute", has been a gray area that no one seems to be able to definitively answer. I've heard it from people that DO have 2 leg commutes, that if you make the 1st leg, and are unable to get to base from the intermediate station, that that is good enough. It makes since, why would you strand yourself away from home and base, to get out of work? Having said that, it's not black and white in the contract, and probably up to the cpo reviewing the situation.
Yes, one should always make the best effort to get to work on time. And I'm sure no one is advocating abusing the policy. Commuting a day early, especially when you don't have to, shows a good faith effort, even if you forego the jumpseat. Say you give up a jumpseat commuting a day early, to someone who has to report the day of, because you believe you'll get on the next flight, then don't get on the next one for some reason. I don't think the cpo will have a problem with that. As long as they believe you genuinely tried to get to work, but were unable due to circumstances out of your control. As far as being required to take the JS, I believe that if you're commuting on the day of your trip, then you're somewhat obligated to take it (whilst also meeting JS attire requirments), if it's the last resort, especially if it's on the last attempt. (Unless you are denied, or JS is unavailable. But you may have to explain "why" when clearing the MA). However, JS on your day off should not be a hard requirment, for reasons stated earlier. It's your day off man!

ParkingatMIA
05-25-2018, 01:23 PM
Does the commuting policy count if you are trying to get to base from a different location than where you live. For example if I live in Miami, but am on vacation in Orlando and trying to commute from there. How about commuting from Hawaii ?

Anyone have an answer for this?

Seaplane
05-25-2018, 01:37 PM
Anyone have an answer for this?

They donít care where you commute from or where you live. They just want you to get to work. Commuter policy is used for getting to work no matter where you come from. Itís not that hard to understand.

Seaplane
05-25-2018, 01:43 PM
" What counts as 2 good faith attempts, when you have a 2 leg commute", has been a gray area that no one seems to be able to definitively answer. I've heard it from people that DO have 2 leg commutes, that if you make the 1st leg, and are unable to get to base from the intermediate station, that that is good enough. It makes since, why would you strand yourself away from home and base, to get out of work? Having said that, it's not black and white in the contract, and probably up to the cpo reviewing the situation.
Yes, one should always make the best effort to get to work on time. And I'm sure no one is advocating abusing the policy. Commuting a day early, especially when you don't have to, shows a good faith effort, even if you forego the jumpseat. Say you give up a jumpseat commuting a day early, to someone who has to report the day of, because you believe you'll get on the next flight, then don't get on the next one for some reason. I don't think the cpo will have a problem with that. As long as they believe you genuinely tried to get to work, but were unable due to circumstances out of your control. As far as being required to take the JS, I believe that if you're commuting on the day of your trip, then you're somewhat obligated to take it (whilst also meeting JS attire requirments), if it's the last resort, especially if it's on the last attempt. (Unless you are denied, or JS is unavailable. But you may have to explain "why" when clearing the MA). However, JS on your day off should not be a hard requirment, for reasons stated earlier. It's your day off man!

2 leg commutes are hard. You should leave yourself 2 flights to get to the intermediate airport, then 2 flights to get to base. If you donít, the chief pilot will absolutely give you a MA if he chooses too. Usually the CP will give you a strong warning because a 2 leg commute is hard and a lot can go wrong quickly. If you plan on a 2 leg commute, be prepared to often leave the day before. If that was the case then people with a 1 leg commute could easily make it a 2 leg commute to try and use the system. Just be at work when youíre supposed to be there.

FlyPurdue
05-25-2018, 02:48 PM
I am a DFW commuter, and when I first started commuting to ORD, I would often 2-leg as the flight loads looked way better going via TUL, XNA, etc (plus the metal was often ENY, which helped getting the JS). The CPO, told me not to do this as many times there was only one flight from the secondary city, and they said I was better off trying for 2 direct flights, then trying to get guidance on what would happen if I did not make it from the intermediate city...Fine by me!

They appreciated the 'good faith gesture' but at the end of the day this is way better for me...just going home if I dont make it vs. stuck in TUL. Of course if you have 2-leg...YMMV.

Boiler Up!

in2deep
05-27-2018, 01:53 PM
Ive got a good scenario.

Lets say you have a trip starting at 10am the next day and theres 1 flight that same day that gets you there before then. Theoretically if you try the last flight out the night before and that bangs, and that morning flight also bangs, would you still say thats 2 attempts? After all the contract only says 2 attempts that get you there before sign in time.

highfarfast
05-27-2018, 02:02 PM
Ive got a good scenario.

Lets say you have a trip starting at 10am the next day and theres 1 flight that same day that gets you there before then. Theoretically if you try the last flight out the night before and that bangs, and that morning flight also bangs, would you still say thats 2 attempts? After all the contract only says 2 attempts that get you there before sign in time.

Yes. That's 2 attempts. Don't know why anyone would see it any other way.

bigtime209
05-27-2018, 04:18 PM
Ive got a good scenario.

Lets say you have a trip starting at 10am the next day and theres 1 flight that same day that gets you there before then. Theoretically if you try the last flight out the night before and that bangs, and that morning flight also bangs, would you still say thats 2 attempts? After all the contract only says 2 attempts that get you there before sign in time.

Is this a trick question? Why wouldnít that be two attempts?

fatman
05-27-2018, 07:29 PM
DO NOT EXPECT A COMMUTER POLICY ON A TWO LEG COMMUTE FOR ANY REASON!!!!!!
I speak from experience. I had a two leg commute for a long time. I used to plan myself two flights to the intermediate then two to base. I had to commute in the day before constantly. One time I had a 7:30a sign in. I needing two flights left the day prior at like 10a. Got to the intermediate. Missed my first flight that was at like 2p. Flight at 4p cancelled. Flight at 6p was delayed until 8p. Couldnít get on that one either. Called crew scheduling and they removed me from my flights the next day. Now I donít have to sign in until the next day at like 12p.
I decide that since Iím stuck inbetween and I donít have a sign in until 12p a day and half away. I will head home. Flight home was at 11p. There was however another flight leaving to my base at 10p. Got in around 1230a. I figured itíd be better to go home and rest than rather fly in and show up with at most 5 or so hrs of rest.
I made it home. Left the next morning at 10a again. Got to base with no issues. Picked up my line at 12p the next day. And finished those three days.
I was given a MA and a step one letter for not taking the third flight, since it would have arrived before my shift. I said, I would have been asked to sign in with 5 hours of rest. I would have been fatigued. They say, you donít know that you would been fatigued. Plus FAR 117 doesnít count towards commuting. I say I know this, but it would have been an unsafe situation. They say, we would have decided that in the morning. I said, I was removed from my flying per the contract. So there was no flying to commute in for. They said I didnít make a good faith attempt. I said I picked up my flying, that should be a late report at best, since a MA means I missed the whole assignment. They say shove it bro.
The step one letter even say I made two attempts.BS if you ask me. Whatever though. I disputed it and the union said oh we got this. Then the called again and said, should be a late report bro no worries. Calls again, hey man your should get a counseling no biggie. Calls again, bro you are getting a MA. Calls again and says hey buddy, you getting a step one letter. Itís okay though, itíll be off your record in two years. Psh.
Long story short. Two leg commute? Quit.
Ironically I came here specifically because the only bases we had were Dfw and ord. Both of which were easy commutes. Show up to class and ďhey guys, we just opened Lga. So lets bid for bases.Ē Show us the whiteboard. 40 LGA 145.

NoValueAviator
05-28-2018, 02:17 AM
I guess I can see the company's perspective KINDA but wow, that's an awful story fatman. Two attempts are two attempts. Where's the obligation to make a third attempt to commute to a fatigue call?

Did that MA come from the current LGA CP?

highfarfast
05-28-2018, 04:10 AM
Did that MA come from the current LGA CP?

I've heard stories about him but have never had to deal with him. Even if so, I'm surprises the union was unable to fix this one.

in2deep
05-28-2018, 06:34 AM
DO NOT EXPECT A COMMUTER POLICY ON A TWO LEG COMMUTE FOR ANY REASON!!!!!!
I speak from experience. I had a two leg commute for a long time. I used to plan myself two flights to the intermediate then two to base. I had to commute in the day before constantly. One time I had a 7:30a sign in. I needing two flights left the day prior at like 10a. Got to the intermediate. Missed my first flight that was at like 2p. Flight at 4p cancelled. Flight at 6p was delayed until 8p. Couldnít get on that one either. Called crew scheduling and they removed me from my flights the next day. Now I donít have to sign in until the next day at like 12p.
I decide that since Iím stuck inbetween and I donít have a sign in until 12p a day and half away. I will head home. Flight home was at 11p. There was however another flight leaving to my base at 10p. Got in around 1230a. I figured itíd be better to go home and rest than rather fly in and show up with at most 5 or so hrs of rest.
I made it home. Left the next morning at 10a again. Got to base with no issues. Picked up my line at 12p the next day. And finished those three days.
I was given a MA and a step one letter for not taking the third flight, since it would have arrived before my shift. I said, I would have been asked to sign in with 5 hours of rest. I would have been fatigued. They say, you donít know that you would been fatigued. Plus FAR 117 doesnít count towards commuting. I say I know this, but it would have been an unsafe situation. They say, we would have decided that in the morning. I said, I was removed from my flying per the contract. So there was no flying to commute in for. They said I didnít make a good faith attempt. I said I picked up my flying, that should be a late report at best, since a MA means I missed the whole assignment. They say shove it bro.
The step one letter even say I made two attempts.BS if you ask me. Whatever though. I disputed it and the union said oh we got this. Then the called again and said, should be a late report bro no worries. Calls again, hey man your should get a counseling no biggie. Calls again, bro you are getting a MA. Calls again and says hey buddy, you getting a step one letter. Itís okay though, itíll be off your record in two years. Psh.
Long story short. Two leg commute? Quit.
Ironically I came here specifically because the only bases we had were Dfw and ord. Both of which were easy commutes. Show up to class and ďhey guys, we just opened Lga. So lets bid for bases.Ē Show us the whiteboard. 40 LGA 145.

Yup, sounds like Envoy to me.

in2deep
05-28-2018, 06:39 AM
Is this a trick question? Why wouldnít that be two attempts?

I could see a CP having a hissy fit over this for not being ďgood faithĒ.

FullThrust
05-28-2018, 12:05 PM
The commuter clause is two attempts to get to work and you are protected from disciplinary action while still attempting to get to work. Not two attempts and then go home and come back a day and a half later.

highfarfast
05-28-2018, 01:41 PM
The commuter clause is two attempts to get to work and you are protected from disciplinary action while still attempting to get to work. Not two attempts and then go home and come back a day and a half later.

Well, that's NOT what the contract says. Two attempts, Good faith. Sounds like management thought he made two attempts but didn't make a good faith effort. IF the story told is true as is (no pertinent missing details), it sounds like good faith effort to me.

FullThrust
05-28-2018, 02:45 PM
Well, that's NOT what the contract says. Two attempts, Good faith. Sounds like management thought he made two attempts but didn't make a good faith effort. IF the story told is true as is (no pertinent missing details), it sounds like good faith effort to me.

Ok, where does it say you can go home then? Turning around and going home is the exact opposite of ďgood faithĒ.

SilentLurker
05-28-2018, 02:50 PM
I donít know enough about the story bruh, probably a good story bruh. Not sure why u missed the third flight bruh. Explain that again if you donít mind... Iím not trying to re-read the whole post right now.

Sad part is:

1: Union guys telling you Oh well.
2: I personally donít care if in my personal eyes your in the wrong or not. Facts and contract. I would still go to bat for you based on my duties & responsibilities towards a dues paying union member. Should fight fight fight until the end for the brotherhood/sisterhood.

I pray and hope this works out well for you. A bit excessive based on what you wrote, especially IF it is your first occurrence. IF it is not your first occurrence; then dude, donít be known! Best of luck.

Learn from it, make better decisions, and donít let it happen again. I hope it works out better for you. Sorry Fartman.

highfarfast
05-28-2018, 03:28 PM
Ok, where does it say you can go home then? Turning around and going home is the exact opposite of ďgood faithĒ.

It doesn't say you can't go home for sure.

As far as "good faith", as the story was told, two attempts on a day off. didn't make it so he was removed from a certain amount of flying. He made it to that which was left. I fail to see how that's not good faith. He's not paid for the flying missed. He's not paid for time at the airport trying to commute on a DAY OFF. I don't see how he benefited from missing the original sign in time here in a way that's worth the effort put in.

in2deep
05-28-2018, 05:17 PM
Ok, where does it say you can go home then? Turning around and going home is the exact opposite of ďgood faithĒ.

Getting to work in his case after that scenario would mean compromising safety of flight. Iíd say he was in good faith.

fatman
05-29-2018, 12:43 AM
To add the commute was through CLT.
In December. Snow was falling. Hence the delays and cancellations. When explaining that IF I had flown in, with the ride to and from the hotel, then at most I could have gotten 5 hours of sleep. I remember them saying, ďitís your responsibility to get to work with enough time to be well rested.Ē I explained that I left at 10a the morning prior. They said ďI should have left the day before.Ē So remember guys to commute in 36hrs prior.
It was made very clear to me that if you are worried about fatigue, donít bother calling early enough to help anyone. Wait until you get to the gate, call crew scheduling, put it on speakerphone, pick up the mic for the intercom, start yawning loud enough for the guys in the A gates to hear you, repeat until they remove you.
With the amount of crap they make us listen too in training and the atp-ctp course about fatigue, they donít give a damn about us flying comprised.
Other info.... The THIRD flight leaving at 10p, I was number #53 on the standby. Had already been delayed. The only reason I was given the MA was that I went home. If I got a hotel in CLT then nothing would have happened. I am obviously not granted any commuter hotels in CLT or I would have stayed there. No point having a crash pad in the intermediate commuting location. Sometimes I did CLT, sometimes ATL, DCA, DFW. Canít afford one at all of those and one in base and my mortgage.
You guys are RIGHT. The contract says nothing about going home. Also doesnít say take third flight. I think itís messed up, IF someone has a one leg commute and can go home, then there is no obligation to catch the THIRD or fourth flight even if they could. I went home just like anyone else would have, itís just that my ride home was an RJ and not a corolla.

No it was not in LGA though I have my own issues with that guy. Twas in MIA.

Cyio
05-29-2018, 01:15 AM
Surprised you had such trouble. I had to use one once, I tried twice, couldnít get on either of them. Took pictures of both boarding passes and called crew scheduling. Following that I emailed cpo with the pictures and all was good. This was the same day I was starting work as well.

Flew in next morning to start sequence. I will say that this was for a dfw cpo which I have seen to be much more civilized and realistic with things.

NoValueAviator
05-29-2018, 09:17 AM
It sounds like one particular manager, who already has a bad reputation with every pilot I've encountered in my time here, using his position to be malicious. Just another reason to get as far from LGA as possible as fast as possible.

What surprises me most is that the union seemingly hung you out to dry? Did they explain why the MA stuck?

fatman
05-29-2018, 10:47 AM
It sounds like one particular manager, who already has a bad reputation with every pilot I've encountered in my time here, using his position to be malicious. Just another reason to get as far from LGA as possible as fast as possible.

What surprises me most is that the union seemingly hung you out to dry? Did they explain why the MA stuck?

I was told that thereís just some situations that the contract doesnít cover. I even disputed it and nothing. I do have several verbal promises that after 9 months of being a good boy I can ask to get it removed. For whatever thatís worth.

llws
06-03-2018, 05:55 AM
Ok, where does it say you can go home then? Turning around and going home is the exact opposite of ďgood faithĒ.

Is there something wrong with you? It says 2 attempts. If you don't go home after that, where do you expect people to go?

FullThrust
06-03-2018, 01:18 PM
Is there something wrong with you? It says 2 attempts. If you don't go home after that, where do you expect people to go?

No, is there something wrong with you? First, the guy got a letter in his file for doing exactly what you are advocating. Second, go and ask the CPO this question they will tell you it is 2 attempts and continue trying to get to work - not 2 attempts and go home. Thirdly, the contract language is vague and when the language is vague the company is going to win every time if push comes to shove. Lastly, I donít care where people go or what they do honestly, but the company expects you to be at work on days you are scheduled to be at work. Itís no different than if you first round trip cancels on day 1 and you have 6 hours until your next leg. Scheduling still expects you to stay at the airport for possible reassignment. Do people go home? Sure, but you are rolling the dice they wonít call you.

Again, I really donít care what people do. Iím just one person on the internet giving conservative advice to keep your nose clean and out of the cpo.

Pedro4President
06-03-2018, 02:25 PM
No, is there something wrong with you? First, the guy got a letter in his file for doing exactly what you are advocating. Second, go and ask the CPO this question they will tell you it is 2 attempts and continue trying to get to work - not 2 attempts and go home. Thirdly, the contract language is vague and when the language is vague the company is going to win every time if push comes to shove. Lastly, I donít care where people go or what they do honestly, but the company expects you to be at work on days you are scheduled to be at work. Itís no different than if you first round trip cancels on day 1 and you have 6 hours until your next leg. Scheduling still expects you to stay at the airport for possible reassignment. Do people go home? Sure, but you are rolling the dice they wonít call you.

Again, I really donít care what people do. Iím just one person on the internet giving conservative advice to keep your nose clean and out of the cpo.

First part I agree with. Commuting and vague language you are spot on.

What is this thing people have with being worried about Missing a phone call from CS??? Once you are at the airport and on a trip there is NO obligation for you to be available for reassignment except during OSO. If you have a four hour sit or something cancels and you have a long sit then there is no obligation for you to answer a phone call from CS. Go home go eat go to a movie.

FullThrust
06-03-2018, 03:04 PM
First part I agree with. Commuting and vague language you are spot on.

What is this thing people have with being worried about Missing a phone call from CS??? Once you are at the airport and on a trip there is NO obligation for you to be available for reassignment except during OSO. If you have a four hour sit or something cancels and you have a long sit then there is no obligation for you to answer a phone call from CS. Go home go eat go to a movie.

Right, but even if itís not OSO you are still on duty and have to call scheduling for possible reassignment. Thatís all I was saying was thatís the logic the company is using with regards to why they want you to still try to get to work on say your 3rd or 4th attempt. Because one you get to work they can (in their view) reassign you something.

I donít agree with it, but itís the environment we work in.

Pedro4President
06-03-2018, 03:20 PM
Right, but even if itís not OSO you are still on duty and have to call scheduling for possible reassignment. Thatís all I was saying was thatís the logic the company is using with regards to why they want you to still try to get to work on say your 3rd or 4th attempt. Because one you get to work they can (in their view) reassign you something.

I donít agree with it, but itís the environment we work in.

Agreed. I see what you are getting at! That's why I advocate not accepting any reassignments on long preplanned sits even if it gets me/you done earlier. There's no reason to have 2-4 hour sits.