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View Full Version : ABX spooling down


midnightshuttle
05-25-2018, 11:54 AM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.


goinaround
05-25-2018, 12:27 PM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.

nope......

mpflyboy1
05-25-2018, 12:59 PM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.


And you continue to believe everything your management sponsored union tells you?


motorclutch
05-25-2018, 02:57 PM
Hey that’s good news for ATI! One less picket line for scabs to cross. They should be very happy.

nitefr8dog
05-25-2018, 03:56 PM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.
That could mean alot of ex ABX pilots at ATI to vote on the next contract....that would be a real fun place to work. Yippee

BlueSkies88
05-25-2018, 04:27 PM
That could mean alot of ex ABX pilots at ATI to vote on the next contract....that would be a real fun place to work. Yippee

Word has it if that happens, there’s already a committee in place to block any ABX pilots from getting a prime bag tag, these scabs are pretty jealous about any pilot group besides them representing.

nitefr8dog
05-26-2018, 07:57 AM
Word has it if that happens, there’s already a committee in place to block any ABX pilots from getting a prime bag tag, these scabs are pretty jealous about any pilot group besides them representing.
Whaaaat? No bag tag? Whats the point...they might as well go drive truck!

wjcandee
05-26-2018, 10:37 AM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.


This would seem to be an amazingly-stupid plan. (Which doesn't mean that it doesn't appear brilliant to the geniuses in Hooterville.) If you look at it from mgmt perspective, they have one airline that functions with little drama and one that currently has a lot of very-public drama, causing brain damage for managment and customers alike. If they don't want the drama, combining the two carriers, or hiring pilots from one into the other, makes no sense.

My impression, since the time of the Soaper hiring, is that mgmt wants to demoralize the pilot group to the point that whomever is left accepts a contract that, while not concessionary, isn't what folks were agitating for two years ago. And these remaining pilots can fly whatever DHL business is left. They could also fly the ABX-operated Amazon 767-200s until the 5-year leases expire (starting in 2-ish years), after which it is likely that those frames would be returned to CAM and replaced with something else (or moved to Atlas or Kalitta since they can't go to ATI). I don't think there has ever been a question that the pilot group at ABX is exceptionally-talented and operates in a unique way (where it otherwise should have been a pleasure for a younger pilot to work and to improve skills). If labor peace were ever to arrive, and customers to stop hating all the drama, then the place could begin slowly to expand again. In an environment of labor peace, ATSG should be able to sell ABX as a premium provider with higher performance metrics owing to express-like operating policies. (Of course, ABX would then have to perform at that level, and not every customer needs that; but there should be some developments on the horizon in the business generally where customers could be receptive to that pitch.)

Anyway, I think this is BS -- at least it should be -- but I suppose it is possible.

tiredofjrm
05-26-2018, 11:26 AM
Its just typical ATSG (Soaper) scare tactics. Sadly they don't realize that scaring the pilots here gets them to quit, not capitulate.

I am also actively seeking new employment. They've lost 4 pilots so far this month. I just talked to someone who's got a job next month and another one who has an interview. Plus one of the guys they just hired is already regretting coming here.

So it looks like more than 4 leaving next month.


This place is toxic. Get out while you can. We already took a concessionary contract in 2009. No way in hell am I giving away anything else. I'd rather burn it to the ground. I'm a no vote to anything less than getting back what we lost +.

Reactivity
05-26-2018, 12:41 PM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.


Anybody who believes anything they read on APC, especially as it relates to the ATSG/ATI/ABX complex, please contact me about some really fantastic real estate deals.

Kougarok
05-26-2018, 01:08 PM
Its just typical ATSG (Soaper) scare tactics. Sadly they don't realize that scaring the pilots here gets them to quit, not capitulate.

I am also actively seeking new employment. They've lost 4 pilots so far this month. I just talked to someone who's got a job next month and another one who has an interview. Plus one of the guys they just hired is already regretting coming here.

So it looks like more than 4 leaving next month.


This place is toxic. Get out while you can. We already took a concessionary contract in 2009. No way in hell am I giving away anything else. I'd rather burn it to the ground. I'm a no vote to anything less than getting back what we lost +.

^^^^^^What he said!

nitefr8dog
05-27-2018, 02:44 AM
We have just had someone on a union committee at ATI say that ABX is going to be dissolved this year.

I guess they should know since they work with management so much.

I hope people keep bailing so movement keeps up.
BS.....the expense of a total payout all at the same time of ABX crewmembers retirement would probably tank ATSG.... and certainly not make Amazon too happy now that they are tied into the retirement as well.

Checkraise
05-27-2018, 05:47 AM
ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.

nitefr8dog
05-27-2018, 07:15 AM
ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.

Wayst
05-27-2018, 07:23 AM
ATSG funds ABX retirement. Dissolving ABX would not require a total payout of retirement. That said, I think this rumor is either complete baloney or a negotiating tactic.


I am not a finance guy so I don’t know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldn’t that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABX’s retirement. Isn’t this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.

Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.

Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.

motorclutch
05-27-2018, 07:56 AM
For the above mentioned scenario, 1224 was smart and negotiated the pension to be attached to ATSG and not ABX. Even Soapy didnt realize this little fact when he was bragging about shutting us down and screwing us in our pension. The pension was recently funded to approx 110%.
Incase the shtf and they close ABX, I would like to extend my thanks to all the ATI guys who will be working to pay my pension. Thanks guys!

nitefr8dog
05-27-2018, 08:12 AM
I am not a finance guy so I don’t know for sure, but if ABX management filed bankruptcy wouldn’t that null and void any contracts and relieve ATSG from paying ABX’s retirement. Isn’t this why a lot of companies create parent companies and sub companies to be able to file bankruptcy as a business tactic or not be held liable for lawsuits because they are legally separate companies. It reminds me of when Frank Larenzo filed bankruptcy with Continental Airlines and operated the company with money from the parent company Texas Air Corporation. Bankruptcy has been used by many Aviation companies to get out of contracts and/or aircraft leases.

Like I said I am not a finance guy but if ATSG wanted to get rid of ABX I am sure they could find a way. I doubt that would ever happen though.

Before the negative comments come in I am not management and am not an expert in finance or bankruptcy laws, just expressing an opinion.
Not if ATSG lives on....also the PBGC can now take assets (ABX aircraft on certificate before ATI, CAM, etc) to fund it if ATSG went under. ATI pilots have been working to fund our retirement and will be for years to come. I actually looked at it as a positive those idiots did not get a retirement...it helps fund the ABX pilots retirement. One other thing....the bankruptcy laws changed quite a bit after Delta and United dumped their retirements on the tax payers.

filejw
05-27-2018, 10:42 AM
It could if the majority of the crewmembers all took retirement...also since Amazon owns a portion of ATSG they also are responsible for an amount equal to their portion. That said, I say again it could bury ATSG. The retirement is also underfunded so that has implications. Alot comes into play if ATSG lets ABX wither away. The PBGC has directly tied aircraft as available assets to ABX retirement. It is not cut and dried. I do agree with it being complete baloney though.

I don't think owning stock in a company exposes you to a pension liability.

woog315
05-27-2018, 11:28 AM
I don't think owning stock in a company exposes you to a pension liability.

You are 100% correct, but also Amazon doesn't own any of ATSG anyways- they have the right to purchase 19.9% at a set price, but have not exercised that right. Amazon has no current equity interest in ATSG. ATSG carries the value of those warrants on the books, which is what led to the 'fake loss' last Q when they revalued them to current market price (and also led to the filing that confused basically everyone- https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/894081/000119312518021708/d462603dsc13ga.htm )

that filing DOES NOT mean Amazon owns shares.

Jurassic Jet
05-27-2018, 12:16 PM
ATI pilots have been working to fund our retirement and will be for years to come. I actually looked at it as a positive those idiots did not get a retirement...it helps fund the ABX pilots retirement.

And don’t forget the bonus gifts!!!

They are doing it for less money than their peers at K4 and Omni and paying for it with vacation on their off days! :p :) :cool:

nitefr8dog
05-27-2018, 01:53 PM
You are 100% correct, but also Amazon doesn't own any of ATSG anyways- they have the right to purchase 19.9% at a set price, but have not exercised that right. Amazon has no current equity interest in ATSG. ATSG carries the value of those warrants on the books, which is what led to the 'fake loss' last Q when they revalued them to current market price (and also led to the filing that confused basically everyone- https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/894081/000119312518021708/d462603dsc13ga.htm )

that filing DOES NOT mean Amazon owns shares.
Even if Amazon excersized the options...none of it matters anyway. I think the rumor is BS and Amazon will most likely divest themselves of any connection to ATSG when their Airline operation is up and running. All contract rumors.

woog315
05-27-2018, 02:19 PM
Even if Amazon excersized the options...none of it matters anyway. I think the rumor is BS and Amazon will most likely divest themselves of any connection to ATSG when their Airline operation is up and running. All contract rumors.

I would agree.

BlueSkies88
05-27-2018, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE=nitefr8dog;2603541]Even if Amazon excersized the options...none of it matters anyway. I think the rumor is BS and Amazon will most likely divest themselves of any connection to ATSG when their Airline operation is up and running. All contract rumors.[/


What would happen to with those precious bag tags, do they have to return them?
According to ATI pilots they believe amazon will buy them out from ATSG.

nitefr8dog
05-28-2018, 04:31 AM
[QUOTE=nitefr8dog;2603541]Even if Amazon excersized the options...none of it matters anyway. I think the rumor is BS and Amazon will most likely divest themselves of any connection to ATSG when their Airline operation is up and running. All contract rumors.[/



What would happen to with those precious bag tags, do they have to return them?
According to ATI pilots they believe amazon will buy them out from ATSG.

There's the rub....I was really hoping for some Prime bag tags.

filejw
05-28-2018, 12:40 PM
[QUOTE=BlueSkies88;2603556]

There's the rub....I was really hoping for some Prime bag tags.
Should be able to find them.....on Ebay..:)

nitefr8dog
05-28-2018, 05:06 PM
[QUOTE=nitefr8dog;2603811]
Should be able to find them.....on Ebay..:)
Or....once Amazon dumps ATSG..the ATI crews will probably just give them away if someone asks for it.

WingOffLight
05-29-2018, 07:10 PM
The whole bag tag thing bewilders me.

ATI denied any involvement with the making of them.

woog315
05-29-2018, 09:38 PM
Talk to any ATI guy and they deny all kinds of things... You might even say they operate in a permanent state of denial.

gumpscheck
05-30-2018, 07:46 AM
Talk to any ATI guy and they deny all kinds of things... You might even say they operate in a permanent state of denial.

They also deny voting for that CBA.

C7fr8dog
05-30-2018, 07:25 PM
Hey that’s good news for ATI! One less picket line for scabs to cross. They should be very happy.

Absolve all you want ATI....
Date of hire works for me.

tiredofjrm
05-30-2018, 10:29 PM
Rumor has it they signed a letter (just like in the old contract) that says any ATI pilot who refuses to cross a picket line will be fired.
Why would you allow that???

abxflyr
05-31-2018, 07:04 AM
Rumor has it they signed a letter (just like in the old contract) that says any ATI pilot who refuses to cross a picket line will be fired.
Why would you allow that???

Tis' true.

Picket Lines: Sympathetic Action
It will be a violation of this Agreement and will be cause for discharge,
disciplinary action, or permanent replacement, should any Pilot refuse to
enter upon any property involved in a primary and/or secondary labor
dispute, including a primary picket line involving employees of the
Company.
...
"In the spirit of Labor-Management cooperation," [Labor Disputes Letter]

Kougarok
05-31-2018, 07:13 AM
Tis' true.

Picket Lines: Sympathetic Action
It will be a violation of this Agreement and will be cause for discharge,
disciplinary action, or permanent replacement, should any Pilot refuse to
enter upon any property involved in a primary and/or secondary labor
dispute, including a primary picket line involving employees of the
Company.
...
"In the spirit of Labor-Management cooperation," [Labor Disputes Letter]

Unbelievable.......

motorclutch
05-31-2018, 08:18 AM
ATI Pilots just crossed the threshold of gutless to nutless. Truly a treehouse club for a union.

Stimpy the Kat
05-31-2018, 08:21 AM
Why not just name the place Scab Air ?

What a sad group.

In any event...If one had any brains and/or balls, you would immediately cross that Picket Line , get fired, and then retire on the proceeds of a Wrongful Termination lawsuit.

"The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) shields nonunion, nonsupervisory employees’ decision to honor a picket line as protected concerted activity. Any discipline for an employee’s refusal to cross a picket line will be deemed a violation of the NLRA and an unfair labor practice, noted James Hays, an attorney with Sheppard Mullin in New York City."

Can't fix STUPID though...

:(

STK

CA Deplorable
05-31-2018, 08:30 AM
Let history be the judge. ATI has always been a scumbag redneck operation. Less ATSG and its whip saw tactics, it would have DIED decades ago with the likes of Fine Air, Arrow Air, CAT

dynap09
05-31-2018, 09:02 AM
In any event...If one had any brains and/or balls, you would immediately cross that Picket Line , get fired, and then retire on the proceeds of a Wrongful Termination lawsuit.
...
Can't fix STUPID though...
STK

Folks - please check with your own legal counsel before taking action that could get you fired. While there is debate about general no-strike clauses waiving sympathy strikes if the sympathy strike waiver is clear and unambigous and you are part of the union, be careful. The decision to cross a picket line must often be done without much time for review.

Some unions (teamsters) are known for not signing these types of waivers. Don't know the ABX agreement, but freight side this is langauge.

"Section 1. Picket Lines: Sympathetic Action
It shall not be a violation of this Agreement, and it shall not be cause
for discharge, disciplinary action or permanent replacement in the
event an employee refuses to enter upon any property involved in a
primary labor dispute, or refuses to go through or work behind any
primary picket line, including the primary picket line of Unions
party to this Agreement, and including primary picket lines at the
Employer’s places of business."

Notice the difference?

gptjjbmj
05-31-2018, 09:18 AM
Folks - please check with your own legal counsel before taking action that could get you fired. While there is debate about general no-strike clauses waiving sympathy strikes if the sympathy strike waiver is clear and unambigous and you are part of the union, be careful. The decision to cross a picket line must often be done without much time for review.

Some unions (teamsters) are known for not signing these types of waivers. Don't know the ABX agreement, but freight side this is langauge.

"Section 1. Picket Lines: Sympathetic Action
It shall not be a violation of this Agreement, and it shall not be cause
for discharge, disciplinary action or permanent replacement in the
event an employee refuses to enter upon any property involved in a
primary labor dispute, or refuses to go through or work behind any
primary picket line, including the primary picket line of Unions
party to this Agreement, and including primary picket lines at the
Employer’s places of business."

Notice the difference?

Teamsters Contract:

During the term of this Agreement, neither the Union nor the Pilots will authorize, cause, or engage in any work stoppage, strike, slowdown, sympathy strike or job action. The Company reserves the right to discharge or otherwise discipline any Pilot taking part in any violation of this provision of the Agreement, and only the Pilot’s participation in the proscribed conduct may be the subject of a grievance
or a submission to the System Board of Adjustment.

Both Unions are guilty of accepting this language.

abxflyr
05-31-2018, 12:23 PM
By posting langauage I didn't mean to completely stir the pot (maybe a little...). One can post whatever is in the Atlas, ABX, others contracts as well. IMO the langauage has a certain dress value; another way to say this is "actions speak louder than words".

So regardless of the content, intent, or words in ones agreement, when it comes to this topic the true actions are what happens on the line and in the streets. Atlas, Kalitta, and other have shown their colors and support, ATI also has shown their color (more like a DHL yellow streak).

If call upon again in the future, I give all carriers (including ATI) the chance to do what's right....regardless of their agreement. Most agree that was not the case in the past; something we can not turn the clock back on. Given all the circumstances (well documented on APC) I give those guys another bite at the apple if called upon (talking strike actions only here). I don't see throwing 250 guys away at the actions of 10-20...and that includes their MEC at the time. I know it's high expectations given the contract they have signed.

Go easy on me...I have thin skin <NOT>:rolleyes:

nitefr8dog
05-31-2018, 04:40 PM
By posting langauage I didn't mean to completely stir the pot (maybe a little...). One can post whatever is in the Atlas, ABX, others contracts as well. IMO the langauage has a certain dress value; another way to say this is "actions speak louder than words".

So regardless of the content, intent, or words in ones agreement, when it comes to this topic the true actions are what happens on the line and in the streets. Atlas, Kalitta, and other have shown their colors and support, ATI also has shown their color (more like a DHL yellow streak).

If call upon again in the future, I give all carriers (including ATI) the chance to do what's right....regardless of their agreement. Most agree that was not the case in the past; something we can not turn the clock back on. Given all the circumstances (well documented on APC) I give those guys another bite at the apple if called upon (talking strike actions only here). I don't see throwing 250 guys away at the actions of 10-20...and that includes their MEC at the time. I know it's high expectations given the contract they have signed.

Go easy on me...I have thin skin <NOT>:rolleyes:
They are a bunch of sheep....

suddenimpact
05-31-2018, 09:49 PM
Why not just name the place Scab Air ?

What a sad group.

In any event...If one had any brains and/or balls, you would immediately cross that Picket Line , get fired, and then retire on the proceeds of a Wrongful Termination lawsuit.

"The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) shields nonunion, nonsupervisory employees’ decision to honor a picket line as protected concerted activity. Any discipline for an employee’s refusal to cross a picket line will be deemed a violation of the NLRA and an unfair labor practice, noted James Hays, an attorney with Sheppard Mullin in New York City."

Can't fix STUPID though...

:(

STK

I don't have a dog in the ABX-ATI issue other than being in the same local 1224 as you and future probable conflicts for us.

A point in fact, we all work under the RLA (Railway Labor Act) not the NLRA. Two distinctly different things and why we are probably always playing catch up.

HercDriver130
06-01-2018, 03:03 AM
I don't have a dog in the ABX-ATI issue other than being in the same local 1224 as you and future probable conflicts for us.

A point in fact, we all work under the RLA (Railway Labor Act) not the NLRA. Two distinctly different things and why we are probably always playing catch up.

Exactly..the NLRA has nothing to do with airlines or railroads...... it just doesnt.

Stimpy the Kat
06-01-2018, 07:44 AM
DOH!

You are correct and I am wrong. ( First time EVER. Really. :) )

I also effed' up in my statement " ...cross the picket line."

Let me try again:

Under the RLA ( NOT the NLRA ):

> " Carriers may lawfully replace strikers engaged in a lawful strike but may not, however, discharge them... or eliminate their jobs to retaliate against them for striking."

So..You Would NOT cross the Line and you would still have some protections under the RLA.

I will refrain from posting Sober in the future as it seems to mess up my thought processes.

STK

( ^^^ Haha...look at him backpedaling trying to " Fix Stupid " !!! ^^^)

sherpster
06-05-2018, 05:13 PM
They are shutting that place down. Slowly shutting it down. Hoping most people leave on their own which will save them money in the long run. At some point they are going to pull the plug. How many pilots do you guys have now? under 200? Just curious, it was around 250 at 1 point.

I hope you guys get a new contract and some new business, hell I would love to return but I just dont see it.

Reactivity
06-05-2018, 05:30 PM
How many pilots do you guys have now? under 200? Just curious, it was around 250 at 1 point.

125 captains and 108 FOs on the bid list this month, and I know there are a few out on medical. I moved up two spots. Haven't heard who else might be leaving soon. A class is supposed to be starting this month. Don't know how many are expected to be in it.

sherpster
06-05-2018, 06:49 PM
It was 265 in april 2017.

motorclutch
06-05-2018, 07:18 PM
I guess Soapys furlough comments served his purpose!

wjcandee
06-06-2018, 12:35 AM
An important near-term issue for the volume of business serviced by ABX is the what happens with the DHL contract that expires in about 9 months. At that time, the CAM leases to DHL on the 767-200s expire. The CMI agreement for ABX to operate the 767-200s and 767-300s also expires then. The dry leases on the 767-300s expire at various times between 2019 through 2025. A significant question is to what extent DHL finds itself wanting to replace some or all of the remaining 767-200s with -300s from, say Kalitta, who should have at least 5 in his fleet by then, or Atlas, which seems presently to be converting more -300s than they need for Amazon. Also whether DHL wants to continue to use ABX to operate the dry-leased -300s.

DHL is of course the kind of operation that can probably best use the express-carrier orientation and tribal knowledge of ABX, even if it doesn't always appreciate its own need for a precision carrier like ABX. Although DHL has been reducing its utilization of ABX in kind of a Water Torture drip-drip-drip, management should be able to put an appealing-enough offer on the table to structure the retention of at least some of that flying. CAM ought to be doing what it can to find a DHL use (preferably in this country) for those -200s that really don't have much market value outside of DHL.

Obviously, labor peace would make the offer more appealing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Indeed, management is probably better off figuring out how much flying ABX actually needs to do when determining just how badly it needs to reach a labor agreement.

I do hope that things work out in a way that preserves this very-special and rich-in-history carrier, which of course is a direct result of the long-term excellent work of its pilots and large number of other employees.

gumpscheck
06-06-2018, 03:02 PM
An important near-term issue for the volume of business serviced by ABX is the what happens with the DHL contract that expires in about 9 months. At that time, the CAM leases to DHL on the 767-200s expire. The CMI agreement for ABX to operate the 767-200s and 767-300s also expires then. The dry leases on the 767-300s expire at various times between 2019 through 2025. A significant question is to what extent DHL finds itself wanting to replace some or all of the remaining 767-200s with -300s from, say Kalitta, who should have at least 5 in his fleet by then, or Atlas, which seems presently to be converting more -300s than they need for Amazon. Also whether DHL wants to continue to use ABX to operate the dry-leased -300s.

DHL is of course the kind of operation that can probably best use the express-carrier orientation and tribal knowledge of ABX, even if it doesn't always appreciate its own need for a precision carrier like ABX. Although DHL has been reducing its utilization of ABX in kind of a Water Torture drip-drip-drip, management should be able to put an appealing-enough offer on the table to structure the retention of at least some of that flying. CAM ought to be doing what it can to find a DHL use (preferably in this country) for those -200s that really don't have much market value outside of DHL.

Obviously, labor peace would make the offer more appealing, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Indeed, management is probably better off figuring out how much flying ABX actually needs to do when determining just how badly it needs to reach a labor agreement.

I do hope that things work out in a way that preserves this very-special and rich-in-history carrier, which of course is a direct result of the long-term excellent work of its pilots and large number of other employees.

The hell with JH and Soapy. Let’s shut down the place and get it over with.

ABX has been hell on earth since 2009. And they still treat us like garbage. I am done with being nice. If they want to keep turning down work/flights to force us to capitulate, they are misunderstanding their pilot group. We already gave in 2009 and we are not giving again. We are against the ropes and we have nothing to lose. We are very dangerous.

Hang10
06-06-2018, 03:47 PM
Then Light at the End of the Tunnel is ABX’s Death! I would guess less than a year! Who would come for a short time to start over looking for another job?

johnny150
06-07-2018, 01:29 PM
Who would come to a place that doesn’t have known crew member?

tiredofjrm
06-07-2018, 02:34 PM
Oh the company is willing to negotiate for it. All we have to do is drop our D6 days.

johnny150
06-07-2018, 02:47 PM
No other company has to negotiate for KCM...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

sky jet
06-07-2018, 03:52 PM
No other company has to negotiate for KCM...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

We had to at K4. Our D.O. Held it hostage until we signed our contract.

motorclutch
06-07-2018, 04:48 PM
Things are unraveling nicely at ABX. Manager of crew scheduling resigned yesterday because of the incompetent clown-circus. This gets funnier by the minute. Was that overly toxic Joe?

Reactivity
06-07-2018, 06:53 PM
Who would come to a place that doesn’t have known crew member?

Got that right! They could offer Kalitta++ and full retro tomorrow, but without KCM, I'd still tell them to take this job and shove it! Gotta keep your priorities straight.

nitefr8dog
06-08-2018, 04:36 AM
Got that right! They could offer Kalitta++ and full retro tomorrow, but without KCM, I'd still tell them to take this job and shove it! Gotta keep your priorities straight.
Everything is negotiable.....what are you willing to give up? ABX has a max 16hr duty day. Would you work 20-24+ for KCM? Give up REA pay? We can get all our flights catered and home basing if we agreed to a suck a$$ contract like ATI or 24hr duty like K4. Me KCM is not worth a thing. All depends on what you willing to park airplanes for. JMHO

Asiabound
06-08-2018, 10:40 AM
No other company has to negotiate for KCM...


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Mesa was subtracting money from their pilots' checks for it on the previous contract.

point432
06-08-2018, 06:44 PM
Who would come to a place that doesn’t have known crew member?



Its becoming just one of those things that is just industry standard. Even small 135 operators have KCM. We shouldn’t have to negotiate KCM, bc so many companies give it. Should we negotiate iPads or CASS? iPads saves the company money and CASS broadens the market for hiring pilots by allowing ppl to not live in CVG. Every other operator probably sees kcm as an improved efficiency. Therefore, why would we negotiate something improves efficiency and helps the company out. They should have given this years ago to help crews make it to their DHs.


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mukalel
06-08-2018, 07:26 PM
The word is 4 guys in the june 15th class.. they must not know how to read because nonody in their right mind would come here after all the reality checks offered here from the guys who are living the nightmare.. ohh well some people dont learn till they get experience it for themselves.. let the beatings continue..

nitefr8dog
06-08-2018, 08:14 PM
Its becoming just one of those things that is just industry standard. Even small 135 operators have KCM. We shouldn’t have to negotiate KCM, bc so many companies give it. Should we negotiate iPads or CASS? iPads saves the company money and CASS broadens the market for hiring pilots by allowing ppl to not live in CVG. Every other operator probably sees kcm as an improved efficiency. Therefore, why would we negotiate something improves efficiency and helps the company out. They should have given this years ago to help crews make it to their DHs.


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Why.....because the company attorneys convinced them along time ago that if the pilots want it....say no! That attitude has cost them millions over the years!

Almost There
06-09-2018, 09:57 AM
The word is 4 guys in the june 15th class.. they must not know how to read because nonody in their right mind would come here after all the reality checks offered here from the guys who are living the nightmare.. ohh well some people dont learn till they get experience it for themselves.. let the beatings continue..

Its the Kavorka.

woog315
06-10-2018, 10:12 AM
Its becoming just one of those things that is just industry standard. Even small 135 operators have KCM. We shouldn’t have to negotiate KCM, bc so many companies give it. Should we negotiate iPads or CASS? iPads saves the company money and CASS broadens the market for hiring pilots by allowing ppl to not live in CVG. Every other operator probably sees kcm as an improved efficiency. Therefore, why would we negotiate something improves efficiency and helps the company out. They should have given this years ago to help crews make it to their DHs.


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With all the unnecessary commercial deadheading now being done due to the company dropping the day/night waiver, I bet the first crew to get held up in security and miss their flight might get their attention. Clearly no one is doing the math on all the bag check fees they pay that they would not have to pay if we could just get our liquids through security with KCM. I'm not travelling in uniform just to save them a bag check fee.

BoomerSooner
06-10-2018, 07:01 PM
DHL is of course the kind of operation that can probably best use the express-carrier orientation and tribal knowledge of ABX, even if it doesn't always appreciate its own need for a precision carrier like ABX.

DHL really missed the boat when they didn't adopt the "precision carrier C can"

nitefr8dog
06-11-2018, 07:58 AM
With all the unnecessary commercial deadheading now being done due to the company dropping the day/night waiver, I bet the first crew to get held up in security and miss their flight might get their attention. Clearly no one is doing the math on all the bag check fees they pay that they would not have to pay if we could just get our liquids through security with KCM. I'm not travelling in uniform just to save them a bag check fee.
You say that as if someone is actually paying attention? They have for years scheduled commercial flights based on saving 6 bucks with zero regard for connecting flights...and stranded crews and delayed flights numerous times. Why would that change?

midnightshuttle
06-12-2018, 08:11 PM
ABX is getting closer to getting your “Amazon” bag tags everyday.

ATI is a big barrel of monkeys. Today out of the blue our Chief Pilot resigned.

Heard Bucky Jr is trying out.

FR8Dog7
06-13-2018, 04:43 AM
Its the Kavorka.



I love it!:D

motorclutch
06-13-2018, 05:59 AM
[email protected] show number two in progress. I’m sure that highly skilled aviator JV#2 will do a fine job. Maybe he can pass on techniques for landing with 2300lbs in a 767-300.

tiredofjrm
06-13-2018, 06:47 AM
Isn’t it the ATSG way to promote the most incompetent guy to CP?

Reactivity
06-13-2018, 06:54 AM
Today out of the blue our Chief Pilot resigned.

He probably felt there was no more reason to stick around since their most problematic scheduler crossed the fence to ABX.

motorclutch
06-13-2018, 07:39 AM
Which scheduler? And if you say Z, I’m gonna start drinking heavily!

Reactivity
06-13-2018, 07:45 AM
Which scheduler? And if you say Z, I’m gonna start drinking heavily!

I didn't catch the name, but I don't think there was a Z in it. Just something something FAA, something something duty times.

gumpscheck
06-13-2018, 07:56 AM
I didn't catch the name, but I don't think there was a Z in it. Just something something FAA, something something duty times.

Oh no!! This is nothing but a circle jerk inside ATSG.

motorclutch
06-13-2018, 10:36 AM
Thank god......rumor only!

nitefr8dog
06-22-2018, 12:09 PM
Manager of Crew Scheduling quit today. Better to walk off a sinking ship than have to swim for shore.

woog315
06-22-2018, 01:18 PM
Manager of Crew Scheduling quit today. Better to walk off a sinking ship than have to swim for shore.

A couple of schedulers are following him out the door as well (he's going to Atlas). Great atmosphere at ABX these days.

motorclutch
06-22-2018, 02:21 PM
Actually we made out. Got rid of his ASTAR buddy as well

Drew9183
06-23-2018, 03:42 AM
Airborne was a great company. ABX is probably the worst place that I have worked. Nearly all or if not all Captains are in a position to retire. I hope the managment personal who read this share the reality with all employees.

What happens if 1/3 of the Captains retire...Doors will close.
What happens we continue to loose 4 F/O’s per month with no new hires....Doors will close in six months.
What happens to all the support staff in Wilmington Ohio....well it’s obvious... ITS NOT A RAILROAD WITHOUT THE PILOTS THEIR IS NO ABX. THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE. IF YOU LIKE YOUR JOB SUPPORT THE PILOTS. ITS NOT JUST THE PILOTS WHO LOOSE IN THIS GAME. Pilot hating employees and management pay checks will stop also.

Guess what HG, Walmart will not tolerate your abusive attitude towards co-workers. Yes Pilots are co-workers.

gumpscheck
06-23-2018, 04:47 AM
Airborne was a great company. ABX is probably the worst place that I have worked. Nearly all or if not all Captains are in a position to retire. I hope the managment personal who read this share the reality with all employees.

What happens if 1/3 of the Captains retire...Doors will close.
What happens we continue to loose 4 F/O’s per month with no new hires....Doors will close in six months.
What happens to all the support staff in Wilmington Ohio....well it’s obvious... ITS NOT A RAILROAD WITHOUT THE PILOTS THEIR IS NO ABX. THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE. IF YOU LIKE YOUR JOB SUPPORT THE PILOTS. ITS NOT JUST THE PILOTS WHO LOOSE IN THIS GAME. Pilot hating employees and management pay checks will stop also.

Guess what HG, Walmart will not tolerate your abusive attitude towards co-workers. Yes Pilots are co-workers.

Great Post! It should be published in the Wilmington Paper and/or a billboard in town. The ATSG employees don’t know how close they are to wheels coming off.

nitefr8dog
06-23-2018, 02:20 PM
Airborne was a great company. ABX is probably the worst place that I have worked. Nearly all or if not all Captains are in a position to retire. I hope the managment personal who read this share the reality with all employees.

What happens if 1/3 of the Captains retire...Doors will close.
What happens we continue to loose 4 F/O’s per month with no new hires....Doors will close in six months.
What happens to all the support staff in Wilmington Ohio....well it’s obvious... ITS NOT A RAILROAD WITHOUT THE PILOTS THEIR IS NO ABX. THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE. IF YOU LIKE YOUR JOB SUPPORT THE PILOTS. ITS NOT JUST THE PILOTS WHO LOOSE IN THIS GAME. Pilot hating employees and management pay checks will stop also.

Guess what HG, Walmart will not tolerate your abusive attitude towards co-workers. Yes Pilots are co-workers.

"I hope the managment personal who read this share the reality with all employees."

Now that is funny!

Varsity
06-23-2018, 04:39 PM
Might be a stupid question:

Does ATI or ABX fly TATL or TPAC?

woog315
06-23-2018, 08:54 PM
Might be a stupid question:

Does ATI or ABX fly TATL or TPAC?

If someone is dumb enough to hire us, sure. ATI is currently flying to phnl ( not sure if you would consider that tpac) and ABX is doing a Rammstein run. Both airlines are fully qualified for all of it, yes.

Checkers21
06-23-2018, 10:00 PM
Is ABX still doing a CVG-LAX run or did Atlas or K4 get put on it? Do you guys do a lot of stuff out of Mexico?

av8or
06-23-2018, 11:53 PM
Actually we made out. Got rid of his ASTAR buddy as well

Motorclutch flamin anything ASTAR, EIGHT F’n years and one concessionary contract, so you could be the “lone survivor”, later!

Dude, that is truly so retro of you at this point! So OG! Congrats on the new old uniforms (that look just like ours did 8 years ago) and the pilot lounge at CVG. (Just curious, did Atlas/Southern get that and kick y’all into the ASTAR lounge once they were the big dog?)

I think it is truly precious that I meet so many people who have friends that say “oh yeah, I gotta friend who flew for DHL... on the DC-9”... lol funny, haven’t heard the DHL callsign on ATC since bout oh... 2010-2011 and, it was never on a DC-9 or a 767. And, while you were hanging on, continuing to negotiate and fly for those sorry lying sack of $&1T rat B’s from Brussels, for the last 8 years all of us DHL Airways guys, went and got great airline jobs. We’re all over the place brother. Hope you are able to limp it on into the barn at 65 or 67.

motorclutch
06-24-2018, 03:25 AM
Touched a nerve huh? Too funny.

motorclutch
06-24-2018, 03:46 AM
He was probably cleaning Dazburgs pool instead.

av8or
06-24-2018, 08:18 AM
Touched a nerve huh? Too funny.

Touched a nerve? With YOUR post? 😂😂 Hardly. My “nerves” were touched years ago. Financially it’s taken me years to recover from DHL did, and ABX was an active participant in our demise through both a lawsuit and a concessionary contract. Thankfully, I’ve been able claw my way back. I just thought it was amazing that eight years later, while you’re having to now dance with devil you partnered with, you’re gonna still flame Astar and anyone’s association.

And I meant it when I said I hope you can limp it to 65 or 67. I’d hate for you to have to go through what we did.

Lockheed
06-24-2018, 10:27 AM
Touched a nerve? With YOUR post? 😂😂 Hardly. My “nerves” were touched years ago. Financially it’s taken me years to recover from DHL did, and ABX was an active participant in our demise through both a lawsuit and a concessionary contract. Thankfully, I’ve been able claw my way back. I just thought it was amazing that eight years later, while you’re having to now dance with devil you partnered with, you’re gonna still flame Astar and anyone’s association.

And I meant it when I said I hope you can limp it to 65 or 67. I’d hate for you to have to go through what we did.

Two great posts brother

motorclutch
06-24-2018, 10:40 AM
Limping into the finish line here! To clarify my post .....I was referring to two ex-ASTAR schedulers we inherited who violated our contract at every turn of the screw. Real pleasers for our dynamic management team. Guys who lacked the backbone to do the right thing. Doesn’t matter now....they went to ATLAS and the word had been broadcast and received.

nitefr8dog
06-24-2018, 10:56 AM
Touched a nerve? With YOUR post? 😂😂 Hardly. My “nerves” were touched years ago. Financially it’s taken me years to recover from DHL did, and ABX was an active participant in our demise through both a lawsuit and a concessionary contract. Thankfully, I’ve been able claw my way back. I just thought it was amazing that eight years later, while you’re having to now dance with devil you partnered with, you’re gonna still flame Astar and anyone’s association.

And I meant it when I said I hope you can limp it to 65 or 67. I’d hate for you to have to go through what we did.
Or....ABX took a concessary contract after DHL bought Airborne Express then gave half the cites we flew to to Astar, then DHL made historically horible business decisions that destroyed most of the US Express market they had bought from Airborne which they knew nothing about...stock went to .18 cents and we were delisted. Let's not forget Astar needed a total refleet being they were flying a bunch of relics and nobody saw a value in investing in Astar. Airborne started refleeting in the late 90's before any other ACMI carriers even knew what the 767 was. I guess its all about everybody's perspective....Astar just did not have much to offer. And now we see other carriers sign contacts without retirement, scheduling protection....all for barely a pay raise. For what? The promise of additional flying. ABX.....went to the same cites after Astar folded they had been going to for 20+ yrs. And has watched those cites and aircraft given away to lowball carriers. This will not change. The next company that signs a cheaper contract will start to see DHL take flights from the golden child Kalita and the biggest player Atlas. This is right from DHL's playbook. I also lived though it so I really don't care if you agree or not. Nobody wins everbody suffers in the ACMI world. As the beacon turns.....

nitefr8dog
06-24-2018, 11:12 AM
Touched a nerve? With YOUR post? 😂😂 Hardly. My “nerves” were touched years ago. Financially it’s taken me years to recover from DHL did, and ABX was an active participant in our demise through both a lawsuit and a concessionary contract. Thankfully, I’ve been able claw my way back. I just thought it was amazing that eight years later, while you’re having to now dance with devil you partnered with, you’re gonna still flame Astar and anyone’s association.

And I meant it when I said I hope you can limp it to 65 or 67. I’d hate for you to have to go through what we did.
As far as limping....we have a retirement. The new hires that don't are not planning on staying. I think I heard 175k for the last few that left plus 2M+ in 401k...so I going to go out on a limb and say they will get by ok...

Lockheed
06-25-2018, 12:56 AM
Or. then DHL made historically horible business decisions that destroyed most of the US Express market they had bought from Airborne which they knew about

that's interesting considering DHL started the US express market before airbourne or fedex existed....I guess you mean the Germans didn't know anything about it...if that's what you mean then we can agree....

oh and do tell how many clapped out DC-9's and DC-8's you had in 2008? oh and 767's that couldn't carry containers on the upper deck

DC8DRIVER
06-25-2018, 06:51 AM
Or....ABX took a concessary contract after DHL bought Airborne Express then gave half the cites we flew to to Astar, then DHL made historically horible business decisions that destroyed most of the US Express market they had bought from Airborne which they knew nothing about...stock went to .18 cents and we were delisted. Let's not forget Astar needed a total refleet being they were flying a bunch of relics and nobody saw a value in investing in Astar. Airborne started refleeting in the late 90's before any other ACMI carriers even knew what the 767 was. I guess its all about everybody's perspective....Astar just did not have much to offer. And now we see other carriers sign contacts without retirement, scheduling protection....all for barely a pay raise. For what? The promise of additional flying. ABX.....went to the same cites after Astar folded they had been going to for 20+ yrs. And has watched those cites and aircraft given away to lowball carriers. This will not change. The next company that signs a cheaper contract will start to see DHL take flights from the golden child Kalita and the biggest player Atlas. This is right from DHL's playbook. I also lived though it so I really don't care if you agree or not. Nobody wins everbody suffers in the ACMI world. As the beacon turns.....

Just to expand on this history, in 2008, Astar (formerly DHL Airways) had a contract in place with pay scales slightly higher that the current ABX pay scales ... AND a 15% (no match required) 401k contribution for retirement plan. When approached by DHL Worldwide (the Germans) to bid on flying 767's, our union said that we already had a contract in place with 767 pay scales (weight based, the same scale as the DC-8's) and we would not negotiate anything lower. It was at that point that the ABX pilots agreed to undercut our pay rates and won the bid effectively putting 500+ Astar pilots out of business.

Now, there are other players who will under bid ABX for the flying. 1224 has tried to unify the airlines flying DHL freight in order to promote a "race-to-the-top" instead of the usual "race-to-the-bottom" method of whipsawing our pilot groups. Unfortunately, sometimes pilots are their own worst enemies and simply give up on the fight instead of sticking together against this common enemy. I know the ABX guys are on board with the unity plan, but ATSG has introduced the ATI card into the game and consequently have started their own race to the bottom.

So, yes the bids for DHL flying will always go to the lowest bidder. Ten years ago ABX signed a deal with the devil and unfortunately, he has come to collect.

Let's also not forget that the decision to buy Airborne was just about the single worst decision that DHL ever made. They spent over a billion (with a B) dollars to buy an aging fleet, a very expensive airport (that they tried to use for 5 years and then abandoned), and a fleet of delivery vehicles. They also assumed and immediately forgave the huge $100,000,000 debt that Airborne had racked up by giving DHL 5 spent 767's in exchange. Bad decisions like this were made by the new German ownership of DHL and had nothing to do with the actions of the pilots at any of the airlines they used.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1855948_1864555_1864556,00.html

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 09:58 AM
that's interesting considering DHL started the US express market before airbourne or fedex existed....I guess you mean the Germans didn't know anything about it...if that's what you mean then we can agree....

oh and do tell how many clapped out DC-9's and DC-8's you had in 2008? oh and 767's that couldn't carry containers on the upper deck
Actually...when DHL bought Airborne they had 12 767 200's with cargo doors put in at mod..all the 354# heavy ones. But my point was the refleeting was in progress starting in 1997 first airplane arrived in 1998.A hugh mistake for Astar. Not the crews fault just a hugh mistake. Again nothing to sell. Try not to take it so personal.

Lockheed
06-25-2018, 10:18 AM
Actually...when DHL bought Airborne they had 12 767 200's with cargo doors put in at mod..all the 354# heavy ones. But my point was the refleeting was in progress starting in 1997 first airplane arrived in 1998.A hugh mistake for Astar. Not the crews fault just a hugh mistake. Again nothing to sell. Try not to take it so personal.

scab got picked off an old wound...sorry
I been over it for a while

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 11:51 AM
Just to expand on this history, in 2008, Astar (formerly DHL Airways) had a contract in place with pay scales slightly higher that the current ABX pay scales ... AND a 15% (no match required) 401k contribution for retirement plan. When approached by DHL Worldwide (the Germans) to bid on flying 767's, our union said that we already had a contract in place with 767 pay scales (weight based, the same scale as the DC-8's) and we would not negotiate anything lower. It was at that point that the ABX pilots agreed to undercut our pay rates and won the bid effectively putting 500+ Astar pilots out of business.

Now, there are other players who will under bid ABX for the flying. 1224 has tried to unify the airlines flying DHL freight in order to promote a "race-to-the-top" instead of the usual "race-to-the-bottom" method of whipsawing our pilot groups. Unfortunately, sometimes pilots are their own worst enemies and simply give up on the fight instead of sticking together against this common enemy. I know the ABX guys are on board with the unity plan, but ATSG has introduced the ATI card into the game and consequently have started their own race to the bottom.

So, yes the bids for DHL flying will always go to the lowest bidder. Ten years ago ABX signed a deal with the devil and unfortunately, he has come to collect.

Let's also not forget that the decision to buy Airborne was just about the single worst decision that DHL ever made. They spent over a billion (with a B) dollars to buy an aging fleet, a very expensive airport (that they tried to use for 5 years and then abandoned), and a fleet of delivery vehicles. They also assumed and immediately forgave the huge $100,000,000 debt that Airborne had racked up by giving DHL 5 spent 767's in exchange. Bad decisions like this were made by the new German ownership of DHL and had nothing to do with the actions of the pilots at any of the airlines they used.

DHL makes bad buy in Airborne Express - The Top 10 Everything of 2008 - TIME (http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1855948_1864555_1864556,00.html)
Well.....you missed a few items. The Germans bought Airborne the #3 overnight express carrier( that was profitable) in the US to compete with Federal and UPS. Problem being...they had no idea how to run US overnight express. Had they just changed the name and let the operation run itself they could have saved billions. And it was 11 767s 6 Pratt and 5 GE. (1 Pratt was ruined by a Mercury spill if I remember...the other "spent" 767s are still flying so the got about 8 yrs out of them) Also they gave that 100m to ABX retirement and severance because they dicked it up so bad. They also were "put" the parked DC9s and DC8s so they bought them too ...part of the original purchase agreement if they screwed everything up. But just like your aircraft they were not going to use them.But be that as it may. You still missed my point.....Astar had zero... again zero aircraft worth keeping and nobody including DHL wanted to pay for refleeting. The pilots could have taken 25% pay cuts and you were not getting aircraft. Just to late to start a refleet. IMO

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 12:15 PM
that's interesting considering DHL started the US express market before airbourne or fedex existed....I guess you mean the Germans didn't know anything about it...if that's what you mean then we can agree....

oh and do tell how many clapped out DC-9's and DC-8's you had in 2008? oh and 767's that couldn't carry containers on the upper deck
Airbourne started flying overnight express freight from Hawaii to the U.S. in 1946....DHL 1969

ke4lir
06-25-2018, 01:29 PM
Airbourne started flying overnight express freight from Hawaii to the U.S. in 1946....DHL 1969Just a moot point, it's Airborne not Airbourne. Atleast that's what's on my bag tag...cheers

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

av8or
06-25-2018, 01:43 PM
Well.....you missed a few items. The Germans bought Airborne the #3 overnight express carrier( that was profitable) in the US to compete with Federal and UPS. Problem being...they had no idea how to run US overnight express. Had they just changed the name and let the operation run itself they could have saved billions. And it was 11 767s 6 Pratt and 5 GE. (1 Pratt was ruined by a Mercury spill if I remember...the other "spent" 767s are still flying so the got about 8 yrs out of them) Also they gave that 100m to ABX retirement and severance because they dicked it up so bad. They also were "put" the parked DC9s and DC8s so they bought them too ...part of the original purchase agreement if they screwed everything up. But just like your aircraft they were not going to use them.But be that as it may. You still missed my point.....Astar had zero... again zero aircraft worth keeping and nobody including DHL wanted to pay for refleeting. The pilots could have taken 25% pay cuts and you were not getting aircraft. Just to late to start a refleet. IMO

If all that’s true, and our cargo door aircraft couldn’t have provided lift while we refleeted, wonder how they were able to continue to provide lift for another five years? My bad. I guess DHL’s entire plan all along was to build the $300 million dollar sort in CVG, mothball it for five years, move the entire operation to Wilmington, run TWO nightly sorts, (one for A, one for C), bring on a couple more contractors, (ATI, Southern) so that they could eventually shut that all down, move it back to CVG and get rid of Astar.... all so they could get unlimited access to ABX Air 767’s, most of which didn’t even have cargo doors when we got to Wilmington. Gotta hand it to the German’s that’s sixth dementional chess right there.

Not that any of that really mattered since ABX Air attorneys “correctly” pointed out in court that Astar Air Cargo/DHL Airways ALPA contract was invalid, because we weren’t covered under the Railway Labor Act.

It was Astar’s lousy airplanes and labor contract that wasn’t even legal under the RLA, thats why DHL went with ABX Air.
Yeah... ok. 👍🏼

Tango Uniform
06-25-2018, 01:47 PM
that's interesting considering DHL started the US express market before airbourne or fedex existed....I guess you mean the Germans didn't know anything about it...if that's what you mean then we can agree....

oh and do tell how many clapped out DC-9's and DC-8's you had in 2008? oh and 767's that couldn't carry containers on the upper deck


FYI actually UPS started it in 1929 and stopped during the depression then started back up in 1953 using airlines.

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 03:13 PM
Just a moot point, it's Airborne not Airbourne. Atleast that's what's on my bag tag...cheers

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Oops...damn spellchecker...I got it right on 3 of 4 posts. Does that count for something?

ke4lir
06-25-2018, 04:00 PM
It's all good......Oops...damn spellchecker...I got it right on 3 of 4 posts. Does that count for something?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 04:57 PM
If all that’s true, and our cargo door aircraft couldn’t have provided lift while we refleeted, wonder how they were able to continue to provide lift for another five years? My bad. I guess DHL’s entire plan all along was to build the $300 million dollar sort in CVG, mothball it for five years, move the entire operation to Wilmington, run TWO nightly sorts, (one for A, one for C), bring on a couple more contractors, (ATI, Southern) so that they could eventually shut that all down, move it back to CVG and get rid of Astar.... all so they could get unlimited access to ABX Air 767’s, most of which didn’t even have cargo doors when we got to Wilmington. Gotta hand it to the German’s that’s sixth dementional chess right there.

Not that any of that really mattered since ABX Air attorneys “correctly” pointed out in court that Astar Air Cargo/DHL Airways ALPA contract was invalid, because we weren’t covered under the Railway Labor Act.

It was Astar’s lousy airplanes and labor contract that wasn’t even legal under the RLA, thats why DHL went with ABX Air.
Yeah... ok. 👍🏼
You make sound like DHL had some sort of plan at all.....I think the numbers are like 60yrs they could have operated the airport in KILN compared to what it's costing them to rebuild KCVG. You are giving them way to much credit...like they think things through or something. Astar was never getting new aircraft and DHL did not want the 8s or 72s. Same thing they told ATI/Capitol...

DC8DRIVER
06-25-2018, 06:18 PM
You make sound like DHL had some sort of plan at all.....I think the numbers are like 60yrs they could have operated the airport in KILN compared to what it's costing them to rebuild KCVG. You are giving them way to much credit...like they think things through or something. Astar was never getting new aircraft and DHL did not want the 8s or 72s. Same thing they told ATI/Capitol...

The Germans obviously didn't have any sort of workable plan considering the simple fact that they bought Airborne in the first place. For a billion dollars they obviously could have grown their business and re-fleeted to be competitive against Brown and Purple.

Instead they: 1. Bought a company that had a freight system that was not compatible with any other freight system in the world. 2. Bought an entire airport that they then had to pay Airborne to run (on a cost plus basis) including the expenses of cutting the grass, plowing the snow, painting the lines, changing the runway lights, maintaining the navaids, staffing the security, tower, & fire departments, AND running the sort. & 3. Abandoned their brand new $300 million sort in CVG.

Obviously between the cost of paying JH to run ILN, the lack of runway growth potential, the unreliability of the navaids. and the inefficiency of the manual sort, they finally admitted their mistake and moved back to CVG (where, incidentally, the Seimens computerized sort system hadn't been maintained and required the replacement of almost all of the belt motors).

So the Airborne/ABX deal was only one of four really bad decisions that DHL made when the Germans took over in 2001.

But clearly what they are good at is getting pilot groups to fight among themselves and not recognize who the real culprit is in this disaster of a situation in Cincinnati.

DC8DRIVER
06-25-2018, 07:42 PM
And as I pointed out, the only plan Astar had to refleet was based on the 767's that were given to ABX when our bid was undercut.

And obviously the cost to stay at ILN wasn't attractive enough for them to stay more than five years.

av8or
06-25-2018, 07:53 PM
The Germans obviously didn't have any sort of workable plan considering the simple fact that they bought Airborne in the first place. For a billion dollars they obviously could have grown their business and re-fleeted to be competitive against Brown and Purple.

Instead they: 1. Bought a company that had a freight system that was not compatible with any other freight system in the world. 2. Bought an entire airport that they then had to pay Airborne to run (on a cost plus basis) including the expenses of cutting the grass, plowing the snow, painting the lines, changing the runway lights, maintaining the navaids, staffing the security, tower, & fire departments, AND running the sort. & 3. Abandoned their brand new $300 million sort in CVG.

Obviously between the cost of paying JH to run ILN, the lack of runway growth potential, the unreliability of the navaids. and the inefficiency of the manual sort, they finally admitted their mistake and moved back to CVG (where, incidentally, the Seimens computerized sort system hadn't been maintained and required the replacement of almost all of the belt motors).

So the Airborne/ABX deal was only one of four really bad decisions that DHL made when the Germans took over in 2001.

But clearly what they are good at is getting pilot groups to fight among themselves and not recognize who the real culprit is in this disaster of a situation in Cincinnati.

☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻 Exactly. They’re also really good at a few other things.
1. Signing contracts they never intend to honor. (State of Kentucky, State of Ohio, ALPA)
2. Shifting the blame for the failures of their brand to the failures of their contractors.
3. Being SUPER arrogant about how awesome and smart they are.
4. Trading product control the cheapest labor they can get, ie, contractors.

iPilot
06-25-2018, 09:50 PM
DHL is larger than FedEx and UPS combined, dominates the freight market across the globe aside from the US and is considered one of the best run corporations in Europe. Somehow the US was lost because they bought airlines with obsolete aircraft and couldn't run an airport.

I'm always amused by pilots who think they're the center of the universe.

av8or
06-25-2018, 11:31 PM
DHL is larger than FedEx and UPS combined, dominates the freight market across the globe aside from the US and is considered one of the best run corporations in Europe. Somehow the US was lost because they bought airlines with obsolete aircraft and couldn't run an airport.

I'm always amused by pilots who think they're the center of the universe.

I don’t recall anyone making the statement that they thought they were the center of the universe. I’m always amused by erroneous statements that have nothing to do with the conversation or facts being cited.

Drew9183
06-26-2018, 03:41 AM
DHL is larger than FedEx and UPS combined, dominates the freight market across the globe aside from the US and is considered one of the best run corporations in Europe. Somehow the US was lost because they bought airlines with obsolete aircraft and couldn't run an airport.

I'm always amused by pilots who think they're the center of the universe.

My point exactly....Its not a rail road. No pilots no job. Who’s the genius now?

Lockheed
06-26-2018, 01:02 PM
DHL is larger than FedEx and UPS combined, dominates the freight market across the globe aside from the US and is considered one of the best run corporations in Europe. Somehow the US was lost because they bought airlines with obsolete aircraft and couldn't run an airport.

I'm always amused by pilots who think they're the center of the universe.

You do realize that prior to 2001 DHL was a US company although tried to dodge some taxes by moving corp to Asia... also DHL didnt buy Astar ...it was DHL...Astars former name was DHL Airways...you knew that right?

Jurassic Jet
06-26-2018, 03:57 PM
Another 20+ year FO just quit.

motorclutch
06-26-2018, 04:33 PM
He’s going to a much better job. A company with a future and dynamic management. Unlike a company we are very familiar.

Jurassic Jet
06-26-2018, 04:39 PM
He’s going to a much better job.

He got a job as a Walmart greeter??? :eek: :eek: :eek:

johnny150
06-26-2018, 04:43 PM
He’s going to a much better job. A company with a future and dynamic management. Unlike a company we are very familiar.



Guys that go to a regional have a better future...


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wjcandee
06-26-2018, 06:33 PM
best run corporations in Europe.

Not saying much. Ask KFC/UK what a great job they did for them.

WTFover
06-27-2018, 04:37 PM
As far as limping....we have a retirement. The new hires that don't are not planning on staying. I think I heard 175k for the last few that left plus 2M+ in 401k...so I going to go out on a limb and say they will get by ok...

And yet they continue to work all the way to 65 and actively worked AGAINST recalls until the remaining furloughed were booted.

ROBsINtheHOOD
06-27-2018, 05:13 PM
" Best run company in Europe " has seen their share price in free-fall lately. ( circa 39% ) - DP-DHL , parent company of DHL. I`m always amused by accountants who think they`re the center of the universe. Totally separate business models as well. Bezos is getting ready to pounce.

ke4lir
06-27-2018, 05:50 PM
And yet they continue to work all the way to 65 and actively worked AGAINST recalls until the remaining furloughed were booted.Thank You!

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Lockheed
06-28-2018, 05:39 AM
A friend of mine will resign from abex today
2 weeks out of IOE - thanks Joe

tiredofjrm
06-28-2018, 06:11 AM
We tried to tell him not to come here. But maybe he did it for a type rating?

Good for you getting out!!!

I applied to 3 jobs yesterday myself. Can’t ignore the iceberg straight ahead anymore.

motorclutch
06-28-2018, 06:26 AM
Soapy and Joe have done more damage to the company than the recession of 2008. Hell.....we have tons of resumes on file according to Rich Carrado during last quarterly report. His words not mine.

mukalel
06-29-2018, 06:44 AM
A friend of mine will resign from abex today
2 weeks out of IOE - thanks Joe

Wonder where he is going??

Lockheed
06-29-2018, 07:05 AM
Wonder where he is going??

K4 - where he wanted to be all along

point432
07-02-2018, 08:20 AM
K4 - where he wanted to be all along

Is he going to the 76 or 74?

Industry Strnd
07-02-2018, 01:52 PM
Is this the new hire called for a 3 am ready reserve he said he wasn't coming Co said you have to and he said nah I quit. Is that the guy? Less than 2 months to see the BS with scheduling at ABX.

dera
07-02-2018, 08:05 PM
Is this the new hire called for a 3 am ready reserve he said he wasn't coming Co said you have to and he said nah I quit. Is that the guy? Less than 2 months to see the BS with scheduling at ABX.

If this really happened. I'll buy this guy a case of beer. What a legend!

nitefr8dog
07-03-2018, 07:26 AM
If this really happened. I'll buy this guy a case of beer. What a legend!

Not sure who he is but he is not the first to tell CS he quit at 3am instead of jrm , r1, etc...

point432
07-11-2018, 11:02 AM
Negotiations end of this month. Ready for insulting and laughable below industry standard proposals everyone?


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Hang10
07-11-2018, 12:40 PM
Am ready to be released! Get clock started and close it down before they ruin it!

motorclutch
07-11-2018, 03:28 PM
Hey Soapy....once we are released you and Steve will have more time to turn houses. It's a WIN-WIN

HercDriver130
07-12-2018, 01:31 PM
Am ready to be released! Get clock started and close it down before they ruin it!

released?.. released to what?...self help?... put down the crack pipe.

gumpscheck
07-12-2018, 02:37 PM
released?.. released to what?...self help?... put down the crack pipe.

What? Do you have a cristal ball?

motorclutch
07-17-2018, 08:15 AM
Add another scheduler to the list. We are becoming known for giving away type ratings and schedulers. Hahahaha

HercDriver130
07-17-2018, 03:19 PM
What? Do you have a cristal ball?

in 2016, K4 was told... "settle this"... directly from the NMB... "you wont be released"... if they wouldnt release K4 what makes you think they would release any other small ACMI... hell or big one for that matter....

gumpscheck
07-17-2018, 03:35 PM
in 2016, K4 was told... "settle this"... directly from the NMB... "you wont be released"... if they wouldnt release K4 what makes you think they would release any other small ACMI... hell or big one for that matter....

You are probably right but remember we are dealing with government employees.

nitefr8dog
07-17-2018, 04:48 PM
in 2016, K4 was told... "settle this"... directly from the NMB... "you wont be released"... if they wouldnt release K4 what makes you think they would release any other small ACMI... hell or big one for that matter....
I am going to suggest the NMB did use those same words with ABX...

HercDriver130
07-17-2018, 05:07 PM
I am going to suggest the NMB did use those same words with ABX...

I wouldn't be surprised in the least....

cargowarrior
07-17-2018, 07:15 PM
Add another scheduler to the list. We are becoming known for giving away type ratings and schedulers. Hahahaha

Hell they had another one just this afternoon too. They are jumping ship left and right. God help who they bring in to replace them. Some of the decent ones are gone now. Talked to the new manager there she seems clueless. Christmas should be fun this year. I wonder if they know something we don’t?

742Dash
07-17-2018, 07:19 PM
You are probably right but remember we are dealing with government employees.

It is a 3 member board, two of which have been appointed by the current President. 2 Republicans, 1 Democrat.

No one is getting released.

sherpster
07-17-2018, 09:07 PM
It is a 3 member board, two of which have been appointed by the current President. 2 Republicans, 1 Democrat.

No one is getting released.

Yep, the economy will instantly crater if 200 pilots go on strike.

atpcliff
07-17-2018, 09:42 PM
Yep, the economy will instantly crater if 200 pilots go on strike.

But, someone in the 0.1% would lose some money if you went on strike...probably not happening with the anti-labor governments we have been getting.

Hopefully, we can change that, and get it back to where we used to be. In around 1938ish, we had the highest percentage of workers in unions, and the ratio between CEO pay and line worker pay was the lowest it has ever been.

motorclutch
07-17-2018, 09:42 PM
We don’t have to go on strike to shut it down. Our scheduling director is doing fine on his own. This is the biggest cluster f&&& created by third tier failed managers who never have been successful. Crew bus driver = crew scheduler = COO = Pres = Randy’s Boy!

johnny150
07-18-2018, 11:05 AM
Follow @1224ABX on twitter, there is a regular dose of insightful information...


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Kougarok
07-18-2018, 11:32 AM
I am looking for a contract with the following items-
Industry leading pay.
Full retro.
QOL
SCOPE
15% DB

If Soaper doesn’t give us this I am willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with him and hand him the matches while he pours the gas on.(Figuratively of course.)

tiredofjrm
07-18-2018, 11:44 AM
I second that.

sky jet
07-18-2018, 11:47 AM
I am looking for a contract with the following items-
Industry leading pay.
Full retro.
QOL
SCOPE
15% DB

If Soaper doesn’t give us this I am willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with him and hand him the matches while he pours the gas on.(Figuratively of course.)

Do you mean ACMI leading pay or INDUSTRY leading pay? Since ACMI carriers do not control their own product (freight) I would say your chances of getting industry leading pay higher than Brown or Purple is almost zero. If the former, I wish you well, all of us need to continue to raise the bar to get us nearer to the industry standard. If the later, you might want to invest in a nice lighter.

Kougarok
07-18-2018, 12:12 PM
Do you mean ACMI leading pay or INDUSTRY leading pay? Since ACMI carriers do not control their own product (freight) I would say your chances of getting industry leading pay higher than Brown or Purple is almost zero. If the former, I wish you well, all of us need to continue to raise the bar to get us nearer to the industry standard. If the later, you might want to invest in a nice lighter.

Too be clear I am thinking Kallita+

No Land 3
07-18-2018, 12:25 PM
Too be clear I am thinking Kallita+

Everyones new contract has been Kalitta-, hope you succeed.

johnny150
07-18-2018, 12:56 PM
It would also be nice if ABX would move into the 21st century regarding scheduling and IT, to bid for your schedule one has to fill out a sheet of paper, take a photo of it and email it to the company... If someone wants to look at there schedule they have to log on to a Remote Desktop which takes no less the 2 min only to find an antiquated Windows 98 style interface. I have seen 135 operations with a more streamlined system of scheduling.


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atpcliff
07-18-2018, 01:37 PM
Do you mean ACMI leading pay or INDUSTRY leading pay? Since ACMI carriers do not control their own product (freight) I would say your chances of getting industry leading pay higher than Brown or Purple is almost zero. If the former, I wish you well, all of us need to continue to raise the bar to get us nearer to the industry standard. If the later, you might want to invest in a nice lighter.

With the current Pilot Shortage situation ABX, and everyone else, are competing with DAL/FedEx/China/3M for pilots. It's all one big pool of pilots, worldwide. If your contract isn't industry standard, it will be VERY difficult to recruit anyone.

point432
07-18-2018, 01:46 PM
It would also be nice if ABX would move into the 21st century regarding scheduling and IT, to bid for your schedule one has to fill out a sheet of paper, take a photo of it and email it to the company... If someone wants to look at there schedule they have to log on to a Remote Desktop which takes no less the 2 min only to find an antiquated Windows 98 style interface. I have seen 135 operations with a more streamlined system of scheduling.


All the other ACMI's (I consider us more of tradition airline...and when I mean tradition, your post describes it.) have more technology. My friends all laughed when I sent them the photo of me sitting in my hotel room with the bid packet spread out on the bed. ABX, the Amish airline. Lets have casual Fridays here...we can all dress up as a band of Amish walking through the door. Amish can drive tractors as long as they have steel wheels, right?

And you're right. 135s with more technology...I know one that is pretty cheap and even they invested in EFBs and computerized scheduling 7+ years ago. Even ahead of the majors.

Industry Strnd
07-18-2018, 03:18 PM
All the other ACMI's (I consider us more of tradition airline...and when I mean tradition, your post describes it.) have more technology. My friends all laughed when I sent them the photo of me sitting in my hotel room with the bid packet spread out on the bed. ABX, the Amish airline. Lets have casual Fridays here...we can all dress up as a band of Amish walking through the door. Amish can drive tractors as long as they have steel wheels, right?

And you're right. with more technology...I know one that is pretty cheap and even they invested in EFBs and computerized scheduling 7+ years ago. Even ahead of the majors.

Technology at ABX lol. Management is too busy pounding their fist threatening if pilots don't meet their demands they will furlough! Real airlines hire management with proven track records and an ability to plan for the future adapt to changes and progress with the times.
Management styles that are effective don't not try to beat employees down. Many studies have shown threats don't produce, yet that's all they know. Instead ATSG stands by their guys letting 50% of the pilots quit, making others want to retire early and alot of the rest seek jobs elsewhere. The rest grow hatred for the company.

nitefr8dog
07-18-2018, 03:25 PM
It would also be nice if ABX would move into the 21st century regarding scheduling and IT, to bid for your schedule one has to fill out a sheet of paper, take a photo of it and email it to the company... If someone wants to look at there schedule they have to log on to a Remote Desktop which takes no less the 2 min only to find an antiquated Windows 98 style interface. I have seen 135 operations with a more streamlined system of scheduling.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I use the direct link and skip the remote desktop....takes like 15 seconds to check my schedule. I don't even have access to the remote desktop. Never signed up for it.

Reactivity
07-18-2018, 03:27 PM
Everyones new contract has been Kalitta-, hope you succeed.

Where by "everyone", you mean ATI.

2lowflaps
07-18-2018, 05:26 PM
I am looking for a contract with the following items-
Industry leading pay.
Full retro.
QOL
SCOPE
15% DB

If Soaper doesn’t give us this I am willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with him and hand him the matches while he pours the gas on.(Figuratively of course.)


Add me to that list. +1

C7fr8dog
07-18-2018, 06:08 PM
That’s The ONLY CBA that I’d even consider to vote YES for.
ATSG ABX

C7fr8dog
07-18-2018, 06:14 PM
Add me to that list. +1

That’s the ONLY CBA from ABX ATSG that I or anyone will vote YES on. After 3 decades of working here I know the pilot group a lot better than Soaper or Hete.

Industry Strnd
07-18-2018, 06:26 PM
I saw the ABX 1224 sign truck in CVG driving around the DHL / Amazon Prime Air buildings the other day. I wonder what else the Teamsters 1224 have planned for ATSG.

What's the Teamsters ABX 1224 twitter account?

I think they give contract updates there.
Do you think Amazon Prime day was affected at all by a pilot shortage? Will it be in the 4th Quarter?

zerozero
07-19-2018, 06:48 AM
I saw the ABX 1224 sign truck in CVG driving around the DHL / Amazon Prime Air buildings the other day. I wonder what else the Teamsters 1224 have planned for ATSG.

What's the Teamsters ABX 1224 twitter account?

I think they give contract updates there.
Do you think Amazon Prime day was affected at all by a pilot shortage? Will it be in the 4th Quarter?

https://twitter.com/1224ABX

Kougarok
07-22-2018, 04:49 PM
Soapies lap dog SB is trying to get on with UPS. The rats are abandoning ship!

motorclutch
07-22-2018, 06:22 PM
We can only hope

4runner
07-23-2018, 12:49 PM
Soaper, this guy is like herpes. He doesn’t go away. He did really well at OH. OH was the most profitable airline in the WORLD, and now doesn’t exist. Let’s hire someone from flight ops management from that company...

BoomerSooner
07-23-2018, 05:18 PM
ABX is like Michael Myers. It just won't die.
https://media.giphy.com/media/13GHipvxHap9DO/giphy.gif

motorclutch
07-24-2018, 08:55 AM
SB has a snowballs chance in hell of getting hired at UPS. We have friends there and the phone calls have been made. Keep to real estate SB!

KDA2
07-24-2018, 05:17 PM
Good Evening,

Last night we received word that DHL had a vehicle towed from the Building 6 parking lot. Today we inquired about the vehicle that was towed. DHL said, no vehicle has been towed because they were parked in the Building 6 parking lot for too long. Either the vehicle was repossessed or needed maintenance.

Until additional parking passes become available, if you park in the pilot parking lot area, Building 6 Security requests that you provide the them your vehicle license plate number, and make and model of your car.

At this time DHL has no formal procedure when the pilot parking lot area is full, but they suggest using the Building 6 normal parking lot.

Thank you for your debriefs, they are making a difference.

Warm regards




My I sugest that our management or lack there of stand up for their pilots...
And tell DH F ing L that if they don't have parking for their pilots
Then don't expect anything to move on time or DHL time

If you don't give us the tools we can't do the job

Grab a pair management time to do your job

Guessing others will if you won't
check the job boards

Industry Strnd
07-24-2018, 05:28 PM
Good Evening,

Last night we received word that DHL had a vehicle towed from the Building 6 parking lot. Today we inquired about the vehicle that was towed. DHL said, no vehicle has been towed because they were parked in the Building 6 parking lot for too long. Either the vehicle was repossessed or needed maintenance.

Until additional parking passes become available, if you park in the pilot parking lot area, Building 6 Security requests that you provide the them your vehicle license plate number, and make and model of your car.

At this time DHL has no formal procedure when the pilot parking lot area is full, but they suggest using the Building 6 normal parking lot.

Thank you for your debriefs, they are making a difference.

Warm regards




My I sugest that our management or lack there of stand up for their pilots...
And tell DH F ing L that if they don't have parking for their pilots
Then don't expect anything to move on time or DHL time

If you don't give us the tools we can't do the job

Grab a pair management time to do your job

Guessing others will if you won't
check the job boards


That's a dream to suggest management at an ACMI carrier stands up for pilots. They act like it's the 3rd grade and you're stupid. They would rather threaten to fire or disciple you than work with you. 4th q going to be fun. SEPT 7 LOL

Reactivity
07-25-2018, 12:03 AM
My I sugest that our management or lack there of stand up for their pilots...
And tell DH F ing L that if they don't have parking for their pilots
Then don't expect anything to move on time or DHL time



Maybe you missed the part where a large section of the parking lot was blocked off and monitored by security just for pilot parking.

KDA2
07-25-2018, 07:10 PM
Perhaps you didn't realize DH F ing L has not had enough red passes for the pilots for the last 3 weeks
F ing geniuos company

German
I would say polish

Let me revise...
highly educated polish with no common sense

If there is a way to do it wrong DH F ing L. comes through with flying color's
YELLOW

Reactivity
07-25-2018, 08:54 PM
Perhaps you didn't realize DH F ing L has not had enough red passes for the pilots for the last 3 weeks
F ing geniuos company

German
I would say polish

Let me revise...
highly educated polish with no common sense

If there is a way to do it wrong DH F ing L. comes through with flying color's
YELLOW

Are you saying they kept pilots out of that area because they didn’t have any more laminated pink cards? I hadn’t heard anything about that.

Oh, right - I forgot I’m in the perpetual outrage forum. Sorry to interrupt. Carry on.

LRSRanger
07-25-2018, 09:16 PM
I’m in the perpetual outrage forum.

Thanks for the laugh!

Keepcalm
07-26-2018, 03:47 AM
Management can spool down all they want. Crews are crushing on time performance. Let's say how long management can placate customers when airplanes don't move. We will burn it down long before management can hold us over a barrel. Idiotic management..... Letting a toxic environment damage the business so. I wonder why Kallita doesn't do so. Oh that's right, they want to succeed.

Kougarok
07-29-2018, 01:55 PM
I gave this some thought. I don’t think they’re spooling us down. If they were they wouldn’t be trying so hard to hire pilots. Still plenty of different flying out there for us. Just not very well managed.

4runner
07-29-2018, 03:27 PM
I gave this some thought. I don’t think they’re spooling us down. If they were they wouldn’t be trying so hard to hire pilots. Still plenty of different flying out there for us. Just not very well managed.

Comair recalled and told pilots in groundschool they’re were getting furloughed, again...if you didn’t take the recall or resign, you were terminated. No bypass.

Kougarok
07-29-2018, 04:30 PM
Comair recalled and told pilots in groundschool they’re were getting furloughed, again...if you didn’t take the recall or resign, you were terminated. No bypass.

We can bypass. They haven’t talked about furloughing lately. It’s an empty threat because a lot of more senior guys would take a volunteer furlough and go back to the regionals with their seniority number.

nitefr8dog
07-29-2018, 05:24 PM
Management can spool down all they want. Crews are crushing on time performance. Let's say how long management can placate customers when airplanes don't move. We will burn it down long before management can hold us over a barrel. Idiotic management..... Letting a toxic environment damage the business so. I wonder why Kallita doesn't do so. Oh that's right, they want to succeed.
We.......?

Kougarok
07-29-2018, 05:41 PM
We.......?

Disregard..........

Industry Strnd
08-01-2018, 12:25 AM
Who wants to bet the next threat will be ATSG will be losing the DHL contract and half the acmi planes in the spring?

Anyone who wants to work for a management team who is careless enough to lose that much business because their ego gets in the way of paying like the rest of the industry? ????

Industry Strnd
08-01-2018, 12:29 AM
Comair recalled and told pilots in groundschool they’re were getting furloughed, again...if you didn’t take the recall or resign, you were terminated. No bypass.


Same management here that ran Comair into the ground. Why? Why would anyone want to work for these people? Same regional style threats....we will take your airplanes. ..we might give you a few if you behave. They don't have a clue nobody cares about empty threats or weak promises.

Industry Strnd
08-01-2018, 12:29 AM
Comair recalled and told pilots in groundschool they’re were getting furloughed, again...if you didn’t take the recall or resign, you were terminated. No bypass.


Same management here that ran Comair into the ground. Why? Why would anyone want to work for these people? Same regional style threats....we will take your airplanes. ..we might give you a few if you behave. They don't have a clue nobody cares about empty threats or weak promises.

No Land 3
08-01-2018, 06:15 AM
Same management here that ran Comair into the ground. Why? Why would anyone want to work for these people? Same regional style threats....we will take your airplanes. ..we might give you a few if you behave. They don't have a clue nobody cares about empty threats or weak promises.

Soapy = Comair? Well heck, maybe you guys will get some one better like John Ornstein?

point432
08-02-2018, 12:25 PM
Soapy = Comair? Well heck, maybe you guys will get some one better like John Ornstein?



I had to look this guy up funny enough. The only comparison that didn’t line up is that Ornstein probably came to work everyday, where Soaper might show up 1 to 2 times a week. Now now...Maybe it is more times a week than that, but Its just what I’ve gathered from others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

goinaround
08-02-2018, 05:51 PM
Soapy = Comair? Well heck, maybe you guys will get some one better like John Ornstein?

Oh, and Southern. Putting him in the prez seat following the strike of 2016 was a clear message.

BitterOHFO
08-02-2018, 08:05 PM
It really saddens me to watch this thread even as a K4 pilot. I'm a former Comair refugee that rode it too the end. Too see DS and your director of training SB still in the aviation world defines logic. Honestly I am surprised either is still walking this earth! DS was a piece of [email protected]@t! Still is apparently!

I endured 6 years of those two [email protected] I have zero positive things to say about either of those fools. I thought the point of capitalism was to make money not to run a company out of business.

I am honestly confused. Only been at K4 for 2 years on the 767 side but DHL keeps giving us ABX's flying. Even though we bailed out of the Teamsters I hope you guys don't feel we are stealing flying! We keep getting your routes. Not like we took a dive in a contract to get flying like ATI. We are actually the most expensive on the ramp right now if anything in CVG. We went ALPA to get away from DW. May backfire in the long run but time will tell! ATI not so much! ATI seems like a regional airline with bigger airplanes from what I can tell and Amazon bag tags are treated like bitcoins over there. I could care less. I have zero control over the business side of things!

I'm just a dumb line pilot and we regularly have ABX jumpseaters. As a pilot group you guys have been nothing but professional to us and hopefully we have been as well. It is really sad to watch the demise. I went through this at at Comair! Honestly surprised we didn't have a crash in 2012 during the last year. I wish nothing but the best for your pilot group.

I would rather see ATI disappear honestly. I hope you guys emerge from this. I am only posting because I have been through this once in my career! Payed the price by losing my job!

Closing....I hope you guys can emerge at the end. It's sad to watch. I already know what DS is capable of! I saw it first hand!

Kougarok
08-02-2018, 11:25 PM
It really saddens me to watch this thread even as a K4 pilot. I'm a former Comair refugee that rode it too the end. Too see DS and your director of training SB still in the aviation world defines logic. Honestly I am surprised either is still walking this earth! DS was a piece of [email protected]@t! Still is apparently!

I endured 6 years of those two [email protected] I have zero positive things to say about either of those fools. I thought the point of capitalism was to make money not to run a company out of business.

I am honestly confused. Only been at K4 for 2 years on the 767 side but DHL keeps giving us ABX's flying. Even though we bailed out of the Teamsters I hope you guys don't feel we are stealing flying! We keep getting your routes. Not like we took a dive in a contract to get flying like ATI. We are actually the most expensive on the ramp right now if anything in CVG. We went ALPA to get away from DW. May backfire in the long run but time will tell! ATI not so much! ATI seems like a regional airline with bigger airplanes from what I can tell and Amazon bag tags are treated like bitcoins over there. I could care less. I have zero control over the business side of things!

I'm just a dumb line pilot and we regularly have ABX jumpseaters. As a pilot group you guys have been nothing but professional to us and hopefully we have been as well. It is really sad to watch the demise. I went through this at at Comair! Honestly surprised we didn't have a crash in 2012 during the last year. I wish nothing but the best for your pilot group.

I would rather see ATI disappear honestly. I hope you guys emerge from this. I am only posting because I have been through this once in my career! Payed the price by losing my job!

Closing....I hope you guys can emerge at the end. It's sad to watch. I already know what DS is capable of! I saw it first hand!

Hey thanks for the post! Soaper is finding the Scorpions and Bacardi’s hard to pushover. He may shutdown the airline, that’s their choice. We’re not going to give in to his ludicrous demands!

Industry Strnd
08-03-2018, 12:48 AM
Hey thanks for the post! Soaper is finding the Scorpions and Bacardi’s hard to pushover. He may shutdown the airline, that’s their choice. We’re not going to give in to his ludicrous demands!

Well said. After reading the above why would anyone stay or come to ABX ? K4 is the place to be in acmi.

nitefr8dog
08-03-2018, 03:03 AM
GuessFtIt really saddens me to watch this thread even as a K4 pilot. I'm a former Comair refugee that rode it too the end. Too see DS and your director of training SB still in the aviation world defines logic. Honestly I am surprised either is still walking this earth! DS was a piece of [email protected]@t! Still is apparently!

I endured 6 years of those two [email protected] I have zero positive things to say about either of those fools. I thought the point of capitalism was to make money not to run a company out of business.

I am honestly confused. Only been at K4 for 2 years on the 767 side but DHL keeps giving us ABX's flying. Even though we bailed out of the Teamsters I hope you guys don't feel we are stealing flying! We keep getting your routes. Not like we took a dive in a contract to get flying like ATI. We are actually the most expensive on the ramp right now if anything in CVG. We went ALPA to get away from DW. May backfire in the long run but time will tell! ATI not so much! ATI seems like a regional airline with bigger airplanes from what I can tell and Amazon bag tags are treated like bitcoins over there. I could care less. I have zero control over the business side of things!

I'm just a dumb line pilot and we regularly have ABX jumpseaters. As a pilot group you guys have been nothing but professional to us and hopefully we have been as well. It is really sad to watch the demise. I went through this at at Comair! Honestly surprised we didn't have a crash in 2012 during the last year. I wish nothing but the best for your pilot group.

I would rather see ATI disappear honestly. I hope you guys emerge from this. I am only posting because I have been through this once in my career! Payed the price by losing my job!

Closing....I hope you guys can emerge at the end. It's sad to watch. I already know what DS is capable of! I saw it first hand!
Confused about getting ABX flying??? You sighed a new contract .DHL aircraft are always moved around . It is DHL's little shell game to keep the airlines in check. Once ABX and ATLAS sign a new contract the shuffling will begin again. Right now everyone is happy and wagging their tails at K4 and DHL is handing out dog treats for being good boys. DHL whipsaw.

Out Of Trim
08-04-2018, 08:45 AM
I had to look this guy up funny enough. The only comparison that didn’t line up is that Ornstein probably came to work everyday, where Soaper might show up 1 to 2 times a week. Now now...Maybe it is more times a week than that, but Its just what I’ve gathered from others.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah, not so fast. If Soaper makes it into the convicted felons club, then maybe, he’ll be able to carry JOs water.

C7fr8dog
08-06-2018, 12:57 PM
24 767s
10-DHL
6-AMZ
1-SAS
1-AeroMex
1-CRAF
3-Spare
2-Heavy Check

Last news is SAS is done after September and CRAF is being negotiated.

cargowarrior
08-06-2018, 04:02 PM
24 767s
10-DHL
6-AMZ
1-SAS
1-AeroMex
1-CRAF
3-Spare
2-Heavy Check

Last news is SAS is done after September and CRAF is being negotiated.
Isn’t Craf split with every other year between ATI? I wouldn’t be surprised if Aeromex leaves soon too. Seem like this place get worse by the day. N792AX, is being turned into a beer can in ILN.

Industry Strnd
08-07-2018, 05:37 AM
Isn’t Craf split with every other year between ATI? I wouldn’t be surprised if Aeromex leaves soon too. Seem like this place get worse by the day. N792AX, is being turned into a beer can in ILN.

ATI pilot fly on the cheap. ATSG will surely dump the DHL contract at ABX air.

gumpscheck
08-07-2018, 05:46 AM
ATI pilot fly on the cheap. ATSG will surely dump the DHL contract at ABX air.

The ATI cost just surpassed ABX’s when home basing is factored in. Next year ATI will be more expensive even without considering home basing. ABX is next to the lowest paid at the DHL ramp in CVG. Only one step above Atlas.

nitefr8dog
08-07-2018, 11:32 AM
ATI pilot fly on the cheap. ATSG will surely dump the DHL contract at ABX air.
They can't fly 767s domestic....

Industry Strnd
08-08-2018, 05:52 AM
They can't fly 767s domestic....

But K4 can and they are slowly taking abx routes.

nitefr8dog
08-08-2018, 04:39 PM
But K4 can and they are slowly taking abx routes.
That was in response to you saying ATI is flying cheap and DHL could dump ABX. Is that not the whole point of the discussions on all these forum boards we have been having for months since ATI and K4 signed such weak contracts? The fact is that DHL could "dump" anybody at anytime and have.

nitefr8dog
08-08-2018, 04:46 PM
But K4 can and they are slowly taking abx routes.
If you have been paying attention to how DHL works ....this is not new. ABX started in 09 with 24 cites. As new players arrived they moved cites to each airline. Keeps everyone guessing. Right now Kallita is the favorite...afforable cheap contract..pilots with a hugh we can do no wrong smiles and acquiring new aircraft. Sounds like Atlas a few years back. Keeps everyone in line....it all goes around. ABX has moved into Atlas cites....Atlas has moved into ABX cites....as the beacon turns.

goinaround
08-08-2018, 05:04 PM
If you have been paying attention to how DHL works ....this is not new. ABX started in 09 with 24 cites. As new players arrived they moved cites to each airline. Keeps everyone guessing. Right now Kallita is the favorite...afforable cheap contract..pilots with a hugh we can do no wrong smiles and acquiring new aircraft. Sounds like Atlas a few years back. Keeps everyone in line....it all goes around. ABX has moved into Atlas cites....Atlas has moved into ABX cites....as the beacon turns.

Thing about some other AMCI carriers.....is that they have aggressive sales departments and have a deep portfolio with other customers waiting in line for when lift opens up. DHL is part of the equation. What happens to ABX when they lose DHL?

nitefr8dog
08-08-2018, 05:51 PM
Thing about some other AMCI carriers.....is that they have aggressive sales departments and have a deep portfolio with other customers waiting in line for when lift opens up. DHL is part of the equation. What happens to ABX when they lose DHL?
They push the MRO and Aircraft Leasing and Post Office sorting facilities and park more airplanes.

C7fr8dog
09-16-2018, 05:19 AM
ABX VP of Flight ops just emailed out that we are loosing JFK on Oct 27, 2108, which will be used as a spare until Jan 1, 2019 at which point that one along with EWR will be given back to ABX from DHL.

It's now approaching 1000 days with no new CBA. It's also approaching 600 days with David Soaper as our president.
It seems he has his agenda which appears to be supported by Joe Hete the CEO.

We did however have an upgrade proffer which the Director of Flight Ops snatched up with his near 28 years of seniority.

I don't expect any more classes.... unless it's somewhere else

nitefr8dog
09-16-2018, 06:37 AM
ABX VP of Flight ops just emailed out that we are loosing JFK on Oct 27, 2108, which will be used as a spare until Jan 1, 2019 at which point that one along with EWR will be given back to ABX from DHL.

It's now approaching 1000 days with no new CBA. It's also approaching 600 days with David Soaper as our president.
It seems he has his agenda which appears to be supported by Joe Hete the CEO.

We did however have an upgrade proffer which the Director of Flight Ops snatched up with his near 28 years of seniority.

I don't expect any more classes.... unless it's somewhere else
It's all not worth worrying about...the decision has most likely been made. I do not ever see a new contract...cheaper to just stretch this pay rate out and wind it down intentionally. Just enjoy the ride while you update your resume and take the JRM and REA pay. It's always easier to find a job while you have one. ABX has not been a career destination for quite awhile now. Just a stepping stone....the most junior will go to ATI while waiting for a descent airline at current seniority ATI pay with the differance paid by ATSG.

LRSRanger
09-16-2018, 08:57 AM
The ATI cost just surpassed ABX’s when home basing is factored in. Next year ATI will be more expensive even without considering home basing. ABX is next to the lowest paid at the DHL ramp in CVG. Only one step above Atlas.

6 months ago ATI's contract was nothing but hot garbage, the worst in the industry... Yall need to keep your story straight!

Jurassic Jet
09-16-2018, 09:00 AM
6 months ago ATI's contract was nothing but hot garbage, the worst in the industry... Yall need to keep your story straight!

Nothing has changed. Cost is only one part. It’s still garbage.

FlyAstarJets
09-16-2018, 09:07 AM
....the most junior will go to ATI while waiting for a descent airline at current seniority ATI pay with the differance paid by ATSG.


To clarify, a ABX pilot coming to ATI will be paid as a new hire at year one longevity ATI scale. If they have greater than year one seniority at ABX, the difference will be made up by ATSG coffers.

But above and beyond all that, there might not be a place for any ABX folks at ATI to come to. ABX Scope preventing an ATSG sister carrier from operating a 767 in the service of DHL out of CVG is seeing that business go from an ATSG carrier to someone else. And all the AMZ growth is at Giant.

I believe the last of the hiring for this year at ATI starts Mon 9/17. After that, who knows. If anything it'll be incremental at best.

motorclutch
09-16-2018, 09:24 AM
I agree with Astar. But one truth exists: ATSG is bound to retirement obligations. Maybe Joe will have to sell assets to meet them....not my problem.

nitefr8dog
09-16-2018, 09:43 AM
6 months ago ATI's contract was nothing but hot garbage, the worst in the industry... Yall need to keep your story straight!
I think he is saying It could have been alot more....now ABX is cheap if we are already less

dynap09
09-16-2018, 12:27 PM
6 months ago ATI's contract was nothing but hot garbage, the worst in the industry... Yall need to keep your story straight!

I'd love to see how someone is doing at ATI from 2014 till now with this hot garbage contract vs ABX. The contract gave ATI stability, big bump in growth, lots of upgrades. After 4 years at ATI someone might be a two year captain at $165/hr (with things like homebasing). And then in a year and then 2 (coming up) don't the numbers get better etc? How does that compare with someone at ABX who has been there even 10 - 15 years?

nitefr8dog
09-16-2018, 12:35 PM
I'd love to see how someone is doing at ATI from 2014 till now with this hot garbage contract vs ABX. The contract gave ATI stability, big bump in growth, lots of upgrades. After 4 years at ATI someone might be a two year captain at $165/hr (with things like homebasing). And then in a year and then 2 (coming up) don't the numbers get better etc? How does that compare with someone at ABX who has been there even 10 - 15 years? well....a 10-15 yr FO has probably been in the 200K range just with a few scheduling snafus working on your regular scheduled days. More if you want OT or accepting JRM. Plus better disability, medical insurance, and a plan match...thats all though. In today's market it certainly could/should be better.
Beats painting houses though.

motorclutch
09-16-2018, 12:59 PM
And a defined benefits plan. Thanks for asking.

nitefr8dog
09-16-2018, 01:08 PM
And a defined benefits plan. Thanks for asking.
Yes..plan match..7.5% of gross to max of 19.5k

Reactivity
09-16-2018, 01:26 PM
The contract gave ATI stability, big bump in growth, lots of upgrades.

Pretty sure that was happening even before the contract. ATI has been the favored son of ATSG for some time now.

nitefr8dog
09-16-2018, 01:33 PM
To clarify, a ABX pilot coming to ATI will be paid as a new hire at year one longevity ATI scale. If they have greater than year one seniority at ABX, the difference will be made up by ATSG coffers.

But above and beyond all that, there might not be a place for any ABX folks at ATI to come to. ABX Scope preventing an ATSG sister carrier from operating a 767 in the service of DHL out of CVG is seeing that business go from an ATSG carrier to someone else. And all the AMZ growth is at Giant.

I believe the last of the hiring for this year at ATI starts Mon 9/17. After that, who knows. If anything it'll be incremental at best.
Yes at current ABX longevity for the differance. If the DHL flying is not done by ABX we don't really care who gets it...in which case you will see 7 yrs of downsizing and stagnant growth while Hete waits again for the ABX guys on furlough to drop off the list . My hope would be the Amazon flying for both carriers goes away and they both wind down....this is all Hete really cares about....Leasing and MRO.

Drop out
09-16-2018, 07:23 PM
Yes at current ABX longevity for the differance. If the DHL flying is not done by ABX we don't really care who gets it...in which case you will see 7 yrs of downsizing and stagnant growth while Hete waits again for the ABX guys on furlough to drop off the list . My hope would be the Amazon flying for both carriers goes away and they both wind down....this is all Hete really cares about....Leasing and MRO.

Not feeling so valued as an employee at ABX for 28 years ...
I think I’ll stop showing up
This place is gone.. admin peace.out

Hang10
09-17-2018, 03:12 PM
So what month is the guess for the End? Am guessing March ABX will be gone!

nitefr8dog
09-17-2018, 05:04 PM
So what month is the guess for the End? Am guessing March ABX will be gone!
Sure....who cares?

C7fr8dog
09-20-2018, 09:19 AM
Here's the latest numbers and forecast for the ABX fleet.
For the first of October there will be 3 spares and 2 in heavy check but due out soon. So 5 AC not being used.
Oct 3-4 the SAS plane comes back as NAC will take that flying.
Then JFK comes back and is used as a spare as well.
After the first of the year the EWR aircraft will be given back from DHL to ABX. Soon after that there is talk of SJU being given back as well.
All in all shortly after the first of the year ABX will have 9 airframes out of 24 sitting with no place scheduled to go.
That's 37.5% for anyone that cares.

The last Captain upgrade class was March of 2017. The one that was scheduled for October 2018 is postponed.....indefinitely or eternally??

I've asked about the sales force and been told that our sales force is doing a great job....LOL you have to be kidding me #David Soaper#Joe Hete.

nitefr8dog
09-20-2018, 10:42 AM
[QUOTE=C7fr8dog;2677935]Here's the latest numbers and forecast for the ABX fleet.
For the first of October there will be 3 spares and 2 in heavy check but due out soon. So 5 AC not being used.
Oct 3-4 the SAS plane comes back as NAC will take that flying.
Then JFK comes back and is used as a spare as well.
After the first of the year the EWR aircraft will be given back from DHL to ABX. Soon after that there is talk of SJU being given back as well.
All in all shortly after the first of the year ABX will have 9 airframes out of 24 sitting with no place scheduled to go.
That's 37.5% for anyone that cares.

The last Captain upgrade class was March of 2017. The one that was scheduled for October 2018 is postponed.....indefinitely or eternally??

I've asked about the sales force and been told that our sales force is doing a great job....LOL you have to be kidding me #David Soaper#Joe Hete.[/QUOTE
Total incompetence....a ship without a rudder. In this marketplace you could not be less managed then ABX. You just can't make this stuff up.

C7fr8dog
11-02-2018, 06:27 PM
ABX is now down to 21 aircraft.
10 for DHL
6 for AMZ
3 spares
1 AeroMex
1 UPS only thru mid January
If you're on the bottom now how long do you think you can hang on?

motorclutch
11-02-2018, 06:40 PM
Not to mention that $1.12 was lost in share value today. The boardof directors needs to fire two people. This has become a losers bet.

MarkThyme
11-03-2018, 01:34 PM
Not to mention that $1.12 was lost in share value today. The boardof directors needs to fire two people. This has become a losers bet.

Right, because every company fires somebody when their quarterly earnings fall short of the consensus estimate by $0.01 per share and the stock reacts negatively the next day when the broader markets were also down.

Try harder. You're just phoning it in now.

Diesel8
11-04-2018, 08:33 AM
I've asked about the sales force and been told that our sales force is doing a great job....LOL you have to be kidding me #David Soaper#Joe Hete.

Anytime Dave Soaper and the President of the company (it was Soaper/McHugh at SAI) is involved in sales the only thing their involved in is selling off the company.

If you want to shut down a company bring in Soaper. That's all he does, that's all he can do.

There is a special place in hell for that man, for all the lives that he has ruined - and I am not just talking crew members. I hope he rots there.

JustOvIt
11-05-2018, 05:33 PM
That abx exco is still drinking the cool aide

Hang10
11-05-2018, 05:53 PM
If they made you a multi millionaire and you where number 1! You would too! Been needing a change for a long time!

JustOvIt
11-07-2018, 06:40 AM
so glad the abx exco put out such a motivating newsletter that we are going backwards in negotiations..

hope everyone continues to help ABX in the next few weeks...

nitefr8dog
11-07-2018, 12:28 PM
so glad the abx exco put out such a motivating newsletter that we are going backwards in negotiations..

hope everyone continues to help ABX in the next few weeks...
There is absolutely no reason to schedule any more negotiations....management has no plans to ever get a new contract. And they are enjoying jerking the negotiating committee and the pilots around. I would not give them that satisfaction.

Industry Strnd
11-08-2018, 05:14 AM
Soaper lol. I'm sure he us still running to Hete saying how he will deliver a substandard contract. I wonder how much time he spends in the ABX building flipping houses?

Scheduling can't follow a simple reserve list assignment, trades get denied, Fleet so out of date can't even comply.....and how much are they paying this guy to wreck the airline?

I wonder if ATSG stick will continue to tank with Soaper in charge.

No Land 3
11-08-2018, 05:19 AM
They are doing exactly what they want to do, they want ABX to go away.

nitefr8dog
11-08-2018, 02:34 PM
They are doing exactly what they want to do, they want ABX to go away.
They want the pilots to accept a $hi% contract like ATI....never happen. In the mean time they can enjoy increased profits while the flight crews make crap pay.. (base).

forrealyall
11-09-2018, 02:30 AM
Soaper lol. I'm sure he us still running to Hete saying how he will deliver a substandard contract. I wonder how much time he spends in the ABX building flipping houses?

Scheduling can't follow a simple reserve list assignment, trades get denied, Fleet so out of date can't even comply.....and how much are they paying this guy to wreck the airline?

I wonder if ATSG stick will continue to tank with Soaper in charge.

Who is running that these days?

motorclutch
11-09-2018, 05:20 AM
A certain douche-bag “boy wonder” who was fired from his last job at his accounting firm has scheduling under control.

Bungalow
11-09-2018, 07:26 AM
A certain douche-bag “boy wonder” who was fired from his last job at his accounting firm has scheduling under control.

Irrelevant. ABX won’t be around long enough for it to make a difference.

mukalel
11-11-2018, 09:58 AM
What do you guys think about what hete told the investors in the last call?? Something along the lines of an announcement about the abx situation in early spring...

qiutong
11-11-2018, 12:06 PM
I think the “ABX situation in the early spring” is DHL’s refusal to renew ABX’s contact, and the closing of ABX’s doors.....but what do I know? If my crystal ball was working, I surely would have left this place many years ago....

midnightshuttle
11-11-2018, 01:25 PM
ABX pilots still have the side letter to go to ATI

nitefr8dog
11-11-2018, 03:40 PM
ABX pilots still have the side letter to go to ATI
Yes....at current longevity and differance paid by ATSG..

mukalel
11-11-2018, 06:03 PM
I think the “ABX situation in the early spring” is DHL’s refusal to renew ABX’s contact, and the closing of ABX’s doors.....but what do I know? If my crystal ball was working, I surely would have left this place many years ago....

Im thinking its about the dhl contract thats been renewed that the company is keeping a secret to gain leverage..

wjcandee
11-11-2018, 06:44 PM
Actually, all they said about timing was that they were still meeting with NMB and that they didn't expect a contract in 2018 so it would have to be 2019 or so before new contract rates for ABX would affect earnings. I didn't see anything about early spring in the November CC transcript. It's available to read for free on SeekingAlpha

Bungalow
11-12-2018, 03:03 PM
Yes....at current longevity and differance paid by ATSG..

I thought Disney World was the only place where dreams come true.

ABX too ?

EndOfTimes
11-12-2018, 03:20 PM
Yes....at current longevity and differance paid by ATSG..

Hmm. That is in the CBA. If ABX is shut down....dissolved...is there a CBA? Does this still apply?

JustOvIt
11-12-2018, 03:57 PM
FOOLS that still come to ABX,ATI, and ATLAS

gumpscheck
11-12-2018, 04:01 PM
Hmm. That is in the CBA. If ABX is shut down....dissolved...is there a CBA? Does this still apply?

You might have a good point but why would Hete dissolve the cheapest airline in his Holdings company? ABX is cheaper to operate than ATI or Omni.
I agree that he can do it out of spite. But would that be smart? Although making smart decisions hasn’t stopped him before. Just saying...

Wayst
11-12-2018, 04:29 PM
ABX pilots still have the side letter to go to ATI

Is the Letter specifically for ATI or is it for a carrier under ATSG? If it is for any carrier under ATSG doesn't that mean OMNI would also apply to the furloughed flow agreement?

gumpscheck
11-12-2018, 05:44 PM
Is the Letter specifically for ATI or is it for a carrier under ATSG? If it is for any carrier under ATSG doesn't that mean OMNI would also apply to the furloughed flow agreement?

It’s for any carrier in ATSG.

nitefr8dog
11-13-2018, 03:30 PM
Is the Letter specifically for ATI or is it for a carrier under ATSG? If it is for any carrier under ATSG doesn't that mean OMNI would also apply to the furloughed flow agreement?
Other carriers under the ATSG umbrella...

nitefr8dog
11-13-2018, 03:40 PM
Hmm. That is in the CBA. If ABX is shut down....dissolved...is there a CBA? Does this still apply?
Doubt there would ever be a complete shut down..with ABX paying ridiculously high lease rates to CAM (on aircraft that ABX owns ) along with outrageous maintenance rates and the lowest crew pay...ATSG would loose millions. But any furloughed pilots would get preferential hiring at any sister airline ATSG owns.

ACMItrash
11-16-2018, 01:44 AM
According to the President of ABX he is shutting the airline down. Why would he say it if it's not true? Did your hear the number of guys off ioe that already have apps out to leave? I guess they didnt think all the stuff on here was really happening lol. They had to see for themselves. Come join the fun you too can sit at the airport days on end preflightin planes and without any food!!!!

point432
11-16-2018, 06:26 AM
According to the President of ABX he is shutting the airline down. Why would he say it if it's not true? Did your hear the number of guys off ioe that already have apps out to leave? I guess they didnt think all the stuff on here was really happening lol. They had to see for themselves. Come join the fun you too can sit at the airport days on end preflightin planes and without any food!!!!



With the availability of the internet, there is zero reason not to be informed about any company you want to work for these days. All you have to do is phone a friend, “hey have you heard about ABX?” Your friend will say “no...who is ABX.”

We have guys that show up and already complain about how bad it is here. Can’t say you weren’t warned. They had there chance not to show up day one if they just opened their eyes and did a little bit of light reading on the toilet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gumpscheck
11-17-2018, 01:11 AM
According to the President of ABX he is shutting the airline down. Why would he say it if it's not true? Did your hear the number of guys off ioe that already have apps out to leave? I guess they didnt think all the stuff on here was really happening lol. They had to see for themselves. Come join the fun you too can sit at the airport days on end preflightin planes and without any food!!!!

Evidently the reason to shut us down is because we are too cheap to operate. ABX has the lowest paid pilot group in the ATSG family and it is second lowest in the CVG cargo ramp. I wonder what’s the reason for Soapy’s stubbornness. It’s not about money. We don’t make any money.

gumpscheck
11-17-2018, 11:15 AM
I am super stoked. It’s the Sunday before Turkey Day and Crew Scheduling is letting me go home a day early. Thank you Soapy! You have finally made this place operate properly.

We now only work 16 days a month, even at the onset of the Peak Season. What a fool you are Soapy!!

ACMItrash
11-19-2018, 02:36 PM
Thanks to each of you who took time to participate in our Fall/Winter pilot survey. The results are available through the following link for your reference:

https://www.apa1224.org/public/181115_FallWinter2018PilotSurvey_ABX.pdf

The results speak for themselves. More importantly, however, it is our hope that they will wake our management team to the reality that the concerns expressed by your union are very real and need to be addressed through an amended CBA.


Major news outlets and the investment community have recently taken a keen interest in the labor issues facing the ACMI sector. We are sharing these results outside of our membership in an effort to alert our management team and shareholders as to the real issues facing ABX Air.



Fraternally,

ABX Executive Council

APA Teamsters Local 1224


Looks like the only people who think Soapy is worth anything is the the ATSG board. ....wool over their eyes nobody listens to this clown! Threats and promises use to work 15 years ago at Comair but only cash gets contracts now! #$oapyfail

point432
11-20-2018, 04:10 AM
I am super stoked. It’s the Sunday before Turkey Day and Crew Scheduling is letting me go home a day early. Thank you Soapy! You have finally made this place operate properly.



We now only work 16 days a month, even at the onset of the Peak Season. What a fool you are Soapy!!



I would like to thank him too. Other than the 22nd, its nice and quiet. 20 FOs on the FIFO so zero reason to extend me or not give me what I want for preference. How did he manage to fix our staffing issues? [emoji58]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

nitefr8dog
11-20-2018, 06:30 AM
I would like to thank him too. Other than the 22nd, its nice and quiet. 20 FOs on the FIFO so zero reason to extend me or not give me what I want for preference. How did he manage to fix our staffing issues? [emoji58]


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Easy...turn down business! Staffing is no longer a problem...



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