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View Full Version : Miami base


Kerizbro
05-26-2018, 01:58 PM
Hi

Can any Miami based pilots go into detail about the type of flying they do?

-days trips
-destinations
-seniority to hold Miami
-upgrade time

Thanks


brownie
05-26-2018, 02:45 PM
Hi

Can any Miami based pilots go into detail about the type of flying they do?

-days trips
-destinations
-seniority to hold Miami
-upgrade time

Thanks

1 you work all the time if you hold days nights are horrible
2 Deep south Brazil Argentina/ south central Sjo Gye and so . Always the same never changes
3 company may assign you Miami otherwise it's hard to come by.
4 Junior capt 18 yrs..Most senior base by far with the worst flying....Btw we have our own version of the contract that exclude us from the special crowd in SDF so choose wisely.

Kerizbro
05-26-2018, 06:25 PM
Wow doesnít sound so great.

Thanks for the reply


mrvmo
05-26-2018, 08:31 PM
Iím guessing itís not as bad as the last guy is whining about.

Swedish Blender
05-26-2018, 08:57 PM
Iím guessing itís not as bad as the last guy is whining about.

I know at least 40 pilots who live in Florida and will not bid the MIA base. It's not good. I think brownie was being nice.

trackpilot
05-26-2018, 11:25 PM
I only live an hour away from MIA and would rather commute to SDF due to the seniority and schedules in MIA.

Night_Hawk
05-27-2018, 03:52 AM
1 you work all the time if you hold days nights are horrible
2 Deep south Brazil Argentina/ south central Sjo Gye and so . Always the same never changes
3 company may assign you Miami otherwise it's hard to come by.
4 Junior capt 18 yrs..Most senior base by far with the worst flying....Btw we have our own version of the contract that exclude us from the special crowd in SDF so choose wisely.

I would say it is not that hard to get into as a FO, but then it is a slow crawl up the list from there. As stated, one of the most senior Captain bases.

Depending on what lifestyle you are looking for Miami can suck or be rather good, just like everywhere I guess.

Globemaster2827
05-27-2018, 09:46 AM
Iím guessing itís not as bad as the last guy is whining about.

If it really is an 18 year upgrade... That's a long time to be the plug in the left seat! The average hire there only has 27 years left until they hit 65!

Kerizbro
05-27-2018, 09:54 AM
What are the main differences between Sdf and Mia with the contract?

brownie
05-27-2018, 10:02 AM
What are the main differences between Sdf and Mia with the contract?

Scheduling articles. Way too complex and long to elaborate but in short Miami does flying that be considered inhumane in SDF standard..Just dont bid Miami if you have a choice and if you do dont be crying and complaining how suck things are.
Cheers.

Jassbuff
05-27-2018, 05:33 PM
MIA is not that bad. As a junior guy you will be doing night turns, only 10 per period. You will not have to sit reserve if you donít like it as reserve goes senior. The base is smaller and is away from SDF which is nice, it is more laid back. You may or may not like it. Try it and if you donít like it, you should be able to bid out shortly.

jetlaggy
05-27-2018, 06:52 PM
Its senior for a reason..bases that suck are junior.

FTv3
05-28-2018, 05:01 PM
Hi

Can any Miami based pilots go into detail about the type of flying they do?

-days trips
-destinations
-seniority to hold Miami
-upgrade time

Thanks

Not MIA based but here is some base info:

80 something FOís, 20 or so are from this new hiring wave with a small handful from this year. Otherwise it spans from 94íhires on down. On the captain side most junior is an 01í hire or about 1,500/2800 total. The rest are almost all 90ís hire guys.

FTv3
05-28-2018, 05:16 PM
Had a flying lines summary that got lost in a copy paste mishap. Iíll try to redo and post soon.

CargoDriver
05-29-2018, 06:03 AM
MIA is not that bad. As a junior guy you will be doing night turns, only 10 per period. You will not have to sit reserve if you donít like it as reserve goes senior. The base is smaller and is away from SDF which is nice, it is more laid back. You may or may not like it. Try it and if you donít like it, you should be able to bid out shortly.


I'm guessing the 7 new hires from last year that bid OUT of MIA already didn't like it.

FTv3
05-29-2018, 10:05 AM
MIA current bid package flying:

50-something lines of flying
2 lines Vacation, training, other, (VTO)
15-20 lines reserve.

Detail:

Appx 15 lines of turns, locals, out and backs, whatever you call them. Either am or pm. Amís start between 6-9am, usually a 2 hr leg to S. America, 7hr l/o then flyback. 13hr duty. PMís are more domestic, start around 2100, 3 legs with at least 1 x a 3+hr sit at one of the big sorts back to Mia around 6am.

There are appx 15 lines of domestic week on / week off night sort flying. Usually starts with a commercial ticket into position on Sunday then your typical 2-3 leggers with a 3+hr sit at a sort. Some have CML tickets on both ends. These are domestic flights. Example: 2030 van, fly to PHL, sit 4 hrs, fly back to whatever city and layover from 7am to 8pm. Repeat all week and finish on Saturday am.

10 lines or so of fairly clean international (S. America) flying. Example sked during a 28day pay period:

8-10 day trip thru S America with weekend layover somewhere. A chunk of days off then appx 4 days of shorter pairings (mostly 2 days and turns). Repeat another 4 weeks to complete the 8 week bid.

There are another 10 lines or so of dirty international or base trip lines (mixed bag of leftovers). Example line:

5 days off, a 5 day (5D) right into a 3 day, 4 days off, 3D, 5D, 2D, 3 off, 4D, 2D, 4off, 4D, 4D, 3D, 8 off. I would guess the bottom guys are getting these types of lines.

There are 2 lines of VTO = search these threads for more info. Basically they are whatever is leftover further into the bidding process.

C and D reserves:

C reserve is 1600-0400 coverage
D reserve is 0400-1600 coverage

Reserve is a mix of 6 and 4 day blocks with equivalent days off or 7 on/off. As someone mentioned, reserve apparently goes senior in MIA.

On first glance nothing looks too terrible and I didnít find anything you wouldnít necessarily find in SDF but again, Iím not MIA based so take my opinion loosely. Maybe some of these ****ed off MIA dudes could elaborate more on what they dislike about MIA flying.... or if the new guys bid out, specifically why?

FTFF

Hopeful
05-29-2018, 11:43 AM
Thanks for this information. It will be very helpful in making the decision, IF I make it out of the pool and IF MIA is an option. Two rather big ifís.

Kerizbro
05-30-2018, 06:39 AM
Thanks for the detailed info, really appreciate it.

Brown Cow
06-02-2018, 07:54 PM
One of the larger issues with MIA is that the company decided to leave quite a few spots in SA. So, in order to keep that group working, they visit SDF, RFD, PHL on a regular basis. The SA and CA flying goes senior.

SaltyDog
06-03-2018, 02:36 PM
One of the larger issues with MIA is that the company decided to leave quite a few spots in SA. So, in order to keep that group working, they visit SDF, RFD, PHL on a regular basis. The SA and CA flying goes senior.

and...
For lurkers and Original Poster. Posting all since broad comments for potential interested pilots may not have any context.
As disseminated during the T/A 2016 road shows, UPS threatened to shut down the MIA domicile and shift the flying to SDF-Z if the cost of MIA scheduling rules became too high. The 757/767 flying is very interchangeable to UPS (UPS has MIA and ONT exclusively 75/76, they also have International 75/76 that also can fly domestic (“Z” domicile located in SDF, and then SDF domestic domicile) and they seek to return to previous unfettered use of 75/76 crews regardless of domicile.
IPA had past experience with the same UPS threats, on a smaller scale, and they did what they said they would do and IPA lost some easiest and highest paid flying on the Airbus. Broken up and littered on other lines.
MIA is the Americas domicile. They do have a fair amount of domestic flying that UPS was and is willing to reduce from MIA and throw back in SDF. UPS would be fine shrinking MIA. UPS currently wants all Z crews to be able to fly to the Americas. This would further give impetus to shrink or eliminate MIA. Contractually eliminating a domicile triggers no significant contractual problems for UPS. If UPS gets a few pieces in place being fought by the IPA, would certainly be more desirable and likely. Why else have Z crews do MIA Americas flying? The fair amount of domestic flying is filler and could be done by SDF crews. So the IPA wasn't willing push things so far as to risk UPS shutting down the MIA domicile and continues to fight against reducing the size of the domicile. Of course, this invites criticism and is expected. No credit of course for those who fight today to keep it a domicile. Normal IMO.

Some numbers to show its popularity:
78 of the 83 MIA Captains (94%) can hold a bid anywhere in the system and chose MIA. The last few can hold almost any Captain seat in system.
30 of the 85 MIA FO's (35%) are bypassing Captain.
Compare to ONT where only 25 of 105 FO's (24%) are bypassing Captain. ANC MD11 only 6 of 112 FOs (5%) are bypassing Captain.
Numbers wise, crews in MIA excepting new hires assigned, want to be in MIA like any domicile for reasons of own choosing.
Every domicile has complaints because every domicile is designed for specific business flying segments and presents some unique scheduling impacts.

This is the rub of some MIA crews: IPA 2016 negotiations produced an almost universally reduction of 15 minutes for non-augmented crew over 8:00 hours from past contracts and FAR. In almost all cases, the time was reduced to 7:45 requiring an augmented crew.
Unfortunately, MIA has 2 exceptions and in narrow circumstances, retained 2006 contract provisions. Choice was reduce where you could or not reduce for anybody. Not an exclusive SDF issue as suggested, its an ANC, International domicile, ONT, and MIA International augmented crew issue. IPA negotiated to help the vast majority of the IPA pilots except a few trips in MIA. IPA could have passed on the majority win for all IPA international pilots. MIA Americas flying was where it was a decision to achieve a majority improvement but not a complete 100% crew improvement. It was a tough pill for the IPA. IPA achieved a 99+% win, but a few specific flights, not universal MIA flights, remained at previous international augmented/non augmented language 2006 language.(Kept 8 hours versus new 7:45 hours) .

New in 2016 contract:
“The required report time for duty periods which start and end within Europe or within Asia, shall be 1:00 hour. There cannot be an intransit stop outside of Europe or Asia during this duty period. The airports which the parties have agreed to within Europe and Asia will be published and maintained on the Flight Operations website. The same 1:00 hour report time shall apply to any international duty period touching South or Central America which is contained in a trip in the Miami domicile. There are two (2) MIA exceptions: the MIA-BOG-MIA turn trip and any international duty period with one (1) flight segment between 7:46 and 8:00 block hours.”
So, UPS kept old contract on the MIA-BOG-MIA turn trip. As an aside, UPS also got SDF IRO waivers on MD 11 SJU turns (New) which some in MIA not realize thinking only MIA was treated differently. Not achieving 15 minute reduction requiring an RO for this one trip naturally stuck in the craw of everybody. Negotiations are tough. Alternatives were saying “no” and giving UPS reason to scale back/eliminate MIA as domicile. UPS still looking to eliminate MIA crews as mentioned above.
These are the 2 new provisions in 2016 language to MIA crews:
“ All unaugmented international turns from the Miami domicile will be covered by the domestic duty limits regardless of whether the duty period is EDW, non-EDW or CRT.” This is 13 hours, Same for all international crews (13 hours) if UPS wants to exceed then this;
“ In addition to the duty limits provided in Article 13.A.1., the Company may construct turn trips up to a scheduled limit of 14:30 hours with a soft and hard maximum of 15:00 hours. In order to use this paragraph, the duty period must be scheduled so the crewmember does not report for duty prior to 0700 LDT, to provide a release from duty by 2145 LDT and must contain an intransit stop of 7:00 hours or greater”
So if have a 14:30 hour duty day turn trip, UPS must schedule a 7 hour or greater period in transit stop. Example 3:30 trip to destination, 7:00 in transit stop, and then a return to MIA for 3:30. This is to minimize UPS gain from maintaining previous 2006 contract.
The other MIA centric scheduling issue has been around since the beginning of the MIA domicile: Like many domicile centric work schedules, will find some that believe they are only one left out of improvements. It is same across all fleets. “its worse for us”. Yet, as numbers show, it is a senior domicile. Scheduling wise, UPS enjoys a different day on/day off pattern for MIA flying. All IPA pilots have same required minimum days off, but the pattern allows flying every week in some regards like a pax airline is extraordinarily difficult for the junior crew who commutes. This occurred over multiple Executive Boards and has been in place for a long time. Contract did not change in this regard on most recent contract. It’s in the 2006 contract. Two different negotiation teams and over 12 years. Some of these schedules are not very commuter friendly for junior crews. (SDF A300 not necessarily any more commuter friendly for junior crews either)

Helpful to have context for those not familiar. Often, folks are not familiar with all the threats and the negotiated solutions to maximize for all IPA pilots and minimize negatives. In the end, it was negotiated and then ratified by the membership.
Certainly not everyone will agree with the reasons for what was negotiated and ratified. 100% of the IPA pilots and Negotiations Team have disagreements with virtually every contract. Would say this is same at 100% of all airlines with contracts, so complaints and criticism is natural and expected. Would argue that keeping MIA as a domicile is a win for 100% for IPA pilots, even if not 100% satisfactory for all pilots. Never is. Hope this helps the OP.

Airbum
06-03-2018, 02:47 PM
Thanks for the explanation

Brown Boeing FO
06-04-2018, 04:22 PM
Very nice explanation Salty, thanks.

Hopeful
06-05-2018, 09:31 AM
If on reserve at MIA, what is the time between receiving a call and reporting for duty?

Night_Hawk
06-05-2018, 10:00 AM
If on reserve at MIA, what is the time between receiving a call and reporting for duty?

2 hours
but I need 10 letters, so...

brownie
06-05-2018, 10:04 AM
If on reserve at MIA, what is the time between receiving a call and reporting for duty?

You can elect EC (early call) and they usually call u as soon as the trip pops in or at least 3 hrs out...

Hopeful
06-05-2018, 10:24 AM
Thanks, weíre looking at houses and trying to balance cost against drive time to MIA. Of course this might just be a moot point as Iím still just a poolie.

CactusCrew
06-05-2018, 10:38 AM
Thanks, weíre looking at houses and trying to balance cost against drive time to MIA. Of course this might just be a moot point as Iím still just a poolie.

Unsolicited advice, but its free. I had a rule, don't buy a house or move in the first year for an airline job. I broke that rule for the first time when I came to UPS.

Long story short, I got forced out of SDF & ONT and landed in ANC for a few years.

Don't even think about a move as a poolie, or on probation.

CactusCrew
06-05-2018, 01:33 PM
And before someone says it wouldn't happen in today's hiring environment, guess again.

UPS just posted a displacement of approx 20 FOs out of ANC on the MD. The realignment will close before displacements, so some of the potential displacements may not occur. But if displacements occur as published, it would affect those hired into ANC MD as far back as Oct 2017.

robxjt27
06-05-2018, 01:40 PM
I bet most of those 20, FOís at least, didnít want to be up there anyway. So that may work out for those people. The captains are a different story but thatís any airline. This stuff happens everywhere and at all airlines. Itís the job.

Hopeful
06-05-2018, 02:49 PM
CC, I appreciate the advice and expected that sentiment from someone. However, there are multiple reasons for our home search outside of my possible employment with UPS. Being optimistic, I have weighted UPS considerations higher than others.

I truly hope that this MIA thread isnít derailed by ANC displacements.

SaltyDog
06-05-2018, 03:15 PM
Hopeful,
They added 4 FO and 4 CPT positions in MIA
Best of fortune!

CactusCrew
06-05-2018, 03:22 PM
CC, I appreciate the advice and expected that sentiment from someone. However, there are multiple reasons for our home search outside of my possible employment with UPS. Being optimistic, I have weighted UPS considerations higher than others.

I truly hope that this MIA thread isnít derailed by ANC displacements.

Numerous reasons besides UPS, good for you :D

Enjoy the search, and good luck in the pool :D

brownie
06-05-2018, 03:29 PM
Hopeful,
They added 4 FO and 4 CPT positions in MIA
Best of fortune!

4 capt thats a mega bid for Mia 🤣🤣

CactusCrew
06-05-2018, 03:32 PM
I bet most of those 20, FOís at least, didnít want to be up there anyway. So that may work out for those people. The captains are a different story but thatís any airline. This stuff happens everywhere and at all airlines. Itís the job.

Don't I know it :rolleyes:

Almost 30 years airline flying, 4 companies, 9 domiciles, 3 furloughs, 14 houses, 5 state drivers licenses, etc

And I consider my career lucky, but it hasn't been uneventful.

Enjoy the ride. All I was saying is don't make a MIA move or decision based on a UPS job. I think Hopeful understood that.

blueskywanderer
06-05-2018, 03:34 PM
First off, the information and insight provided by many people here have been outstanding! Thank you for your time to help prospective new hires in answering questions. I know our APC section has had a lot of ruffled feathers lately, but overall the solid information and advice extending from IPA members has been top-notch -- very proud to see our overall cohesiveness.

As for your question Hopeful:
Miami is a 2-hour callout as previously mentioned, but I do believe it's important to note that you don't have to worry about reserve in Miami for maybe 10, 15 years? It goes very senior.

The real question to ask is how you and the family feel about driving 10 days a pay period (PP=28 days) for night turns for 1-2 years, ~12 days a PP for day turns 2-5 years or maybe doing domestic NDA week-on/week-off for 2-5 years, 2/3/4-day trips 5-10 years, and then maybe reserve or the longer international trips 10-15+ years after DOH.*

Follow up question: are you familiar with South Florida and the traffic situation?

*Standard disclaimer of variable results apply. :D

Hopeful
06-05-2018, 05:35 PM
Thanks to all for the information. I like the idea of no reserve and would happily deal with the MIA schedule issues Iíve read about in this thread. We still plan to live within 30-40 minutes of MIA. My wife gets to choose this time; she has followed me through a few less than desirable locations in my previous career. If I have to commute, so be it.

As far as traffic, Iím somewhat familiar. I think my years in BOG, MEX and OAKB have prepared me for driving here.

On a side note, except for the past week, Iíve found the UPS forums to be much more civil and helpful than any of the other airlines which I have studied. A good group of pilots can make up for a whole lot of management issues.

Jassbuff
06-05-2018, 08:27 PM
On a side note, except for the past week, Iíve found the UPS forums to be much more civil and helpful than any of the other airlines which I have studied. A good group of pilots can make up for a whole lot of management issues.

You only ever hear from the vocal few on APC. The pilots at UPS are awesome. Great group of professionals. Of course every pilot group has their 1%. Donít listen to those and you will be fine. Good luck!

whalesurfer
06-06-2018, 12:21 AM
CC, I appreciate the advice and expected that sentiment from someone. However, there are multiple reasons for our home search outside of my possible employment with UPS. Being optimistic, I have weighted UPS considerations higher than others.

I truly hope that this MIA thread isn’t derailed by ANC displacements.

Agree with CC on not buying a house while on probation but I understand your other considerations.

Just remember that we have MANY Floridians based in Anchorage right now. Many are getter fed up with the commute and I wouldn’t be surpassed if some end up bidding MIA. (Especially if they get bumped out of ANC MD11)

mrvmo
06-06-2018, 05:14 AM
Agree with CC on not buying a house while on probation but I understand your other considerations.

Just remember that we have MANY Floridians based in Anchorage right now. Many are getter fed up with the commute and I wouldnít be surpassed if some end up bidding MIA. (Especially if they get bumped out of ANC MD11)

And not be able to tell their buddies that they are international B747/MD11 pilots? I donít think so! 👨*✈️

Wait a second, what is a MD11?

Tango Uniform
06-06-2018, 04:30 PM
Thanks to all for the information. I like the idea of no reserve and would happily deal with the MIA schedule issues Iíve read about in this thread. We still plan to live within 30-40 minutes of MIA. My wife gets to choose this time; she has followed me through a few less than desirable locations in my previous career. If I have to commute, so be it.

As far as traffic, Iím somewhat familiar. I think my years in BOG, MEX and OAKB have prepared me for driving here.

On a side note, except for the past week, Iíve found the UPS forums to be much more civil and helpful than any of the other airlines which I have studied. A good group of pilots can make up for a whole lot of management issues.


You do know that living "30-40 minutes of MIA" puts you living on Le Jeune or Milam Dairy Road :D

Precontact
06-06-2018, 04:40 PM
Or Hialeah...that would be an ďinterestingĒ place to live!!!

whalesurfer
06-06-2018, 06:20 PM
...
Wait a second, what is a MD11?

Itís the flying-igloo with a missing engine..

https://orig00.deviantart.net/f0fe/f/2015/337/2/4/mcdonnell_douglas_md_11_s_by_t0y_ch1ca-d9iwwas.png

Hopeful
06-07-2018, 02:46 AM
You do know that living "30-40 minutes of MIA" puts you living on Le Jeune or Milam Dairy Road :D

NICE, my kind of neighborhood. Ok, I get it. Letís make that miles instead of minutes. QOL outside of work is the idea. I understand that making this drive 10-12 times a month would not be pleasant. I guess Iíll pony up for autopilot when I order my Tesla.

I realize that if I am hired, there is a slim chance that MIA would be an option. It looks like the only domicile one can count on is ANC with SDF as a close second. My ďrealisticĒ goal would be SDF 757 for the easier commute and seat lock.