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View Full Version : Marriage and days off


LIVTHEDREAM
05-27-2018, 12:14 PM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?


MD-11Loader
05-27-2018, 12:15 PM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

Envoy doesnít care. Theyíll tell you to get married in whatever city youíre in on that particular day. Maybe you can score a SGF layover. Branson is like Vegas for Ned Flanders.

LIVTHEDREAM
05-27-2018, 12:22 PM
Envoy doesnít care. Theyíll tell you to get married in whatever city youíre in on that particular day. Maybe you can score a SGF layover. Branson is like Vegas for Ned Flanders.

😵 In that case, better hope for a crew that likes to go out and not slam n click. Cause I doubt anyone will go that wedding


bigtime209
05-27-2018, 01:12 PM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

As far as getting paid time off, you must rely on bidding, trading and/or vacation. If you don't get the results you seek, discuss personally with your Chief Pilot. There are unpaid options as a last resort.

Excargodog
05-27-2018, 01:18 PM
If (insert organization here) had wanted you to have a spouse/honeymoon, they would have issued/scheduled you for one.

Squirrel27
05-27-2018, 06:09 PM
I got married 6 months after starting. I made the CP aware of the situation well in advance, and he was sympathetic. He said do the best you can in bidding, and if not, he would approve an unpaid leave for it. I got a composite line and crew scheduling created my line with a lot of time off around the event. Just communicate and they'll be reasonable. But don't expect the whole month off. Just like everything, it's a negotiation.

EmbaeDriver
05-29-2018, 08:21 AM
Drop trip I guess

E175 Driver
05-29-2018, 11:20 AM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

Call in sick if it comes to it.

Jamesthunder
05-29-2018, 06:00 PM
Call in sick if it comes to it.

Just make sure not to use your flight benefits or you're screwed.

wildcat1
05-30-2018, 05:49 PM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

Laughing my ass off!!!

Noooo!!!

PerfInit
05-30-2018, 06:16 PM
After the ďhoneymoon phaseĒ wears off, there will be too many days off!! You two will be sick of spending time together, and look forward to the break...

llws
05-30-2018, 06:50 PM
Drop trip I guess

Uh, say again? What does that mean?

llws
05-30-2018, 06:51 PM
Call in sick if it comes to it.

Don't call in sick unless you're sick.

BigZ
05-30-2018, 07:19 PM
Don't call in sick unless you're sick.

He is getting married

MD-11Loader
05-30-2018, 08:17 PM
Just make sure not to use your flight benefits or you're screwed.

And that includes CASS on another airline. Contrary to popular belief the company does know if you have flown someone else because the CASS system sends a ping to AA to verify you are valid. Be smart.

ShyGuy
05-30-2018, 10:17 PM
Your request for marriage has been denied due to staffing.

- Crew Scheduling




P.S. Weíre doing you a favor

flyguy727
06-01-2018, 11:38 AM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

That's your problem, your employer can careless, what you have going on at home.

llws
07-30-2018, 06:13 AM
Other than vacation, does envoy provide any form of special days off for a significant occasion such as a wedding/honeymoon?

Despite the mostly unhelpful responses, even envoy will not expect you to miss your own wedding. Utilize the options available to you (basically in the following order): vacation, vacation swap with other pilots, monthly vacation bidding for trading blocks, bidding around the event, trip trade, drop requests, pilot to pilot trading, PVD, PO. A good idea would be to start a paper trail early on and include that you will attempt all the above to get the time off. You'll find less sympathy for a honeymoon than you will the actual wedding, but just like anywhere else, people here get married all the time. Some more than once.

Cyio
07-30-2018, 07:29 AM
Just make sure not to use your flight benefits or you're screwed.
Or post on social media. Being sick as a dog while your wife is posting pictures of you two on the beach of Jamaica sipping pina coladas won't help your cause.

sflpilot
07-30-2018, 07:39 AM
For those that donít know I would just go ahead and buy tickets to your honeymoon so you can be sure it will actually happen on schedule. I have no idea if AA checks the ticket sales on themselves or with codeshares if you call off. I think if you stay off of the one world alliance you may be OK but others could correct me.

Fr8Thrust
07-30-2018, 11:20 PM
Donít overthinking this. If you canít drop it, and you know the CPO wonít help, call in sick. Get the doctors note from MinuteClinic in advance. Donít non-rev on your own airline or buy zeds through the company portal. Rev is fine, but best to avoid being seen on company. CASS pings are not archived and KCM is privately held. When you notify them of your marriage for benefits, benefits and travel depts are not going to compare that to your attendance. Companies donít have time for this level of investigation. Your greatest chances of getting caught is via social media.

Fr8Thrust
07-30-2018, 11:29 PM
I think if you stay off of the one world alliance you may be OK but others could correct me.

Thatís a whole new level of ďcode-sharingĒ right there!

havick206
07-31-2018, 03:10 AM
Donít overthinking this. If you canít drop it, and you know the CPO wonít help, call in sick. Get the doctors note from MinuteClinic in advance. Donít non-rev on your own airline or buy zeds through the company portal. Rev is fine, but best to avoid being seen on company. CASS pings are not archived and KCM is privately held. When you notify them of your marriage for benefits, benefits and travel depts are not going to compare that to your attendance. Companies donít have time for this level of investigation. Your greatest chances of getting caught is via social media.

Worse advice ever.

I have seen at least 6 new FOís get sequences or reserve days dropped without problem for their wedding. The caveat is that they had attempted all methods of of bidding around it, trip trade, drop requests first, and then approached the CPO after all other options were exhausted.

HobGoblin
07-31-2018, 03:25 AM
Worse advice ever.

I have seen at least 6 new FOís get sequences or reserve days dropped without problem for their wedding. The caveat is that they had attempted all methods of of bidding around it, trip trade, drop requests first, and then approached the CPO after all other options were exhausted.

This.
Also they can see if you use cass and KCM if they feel like digging.

Ijustlikeflying
07-31-2018, 04:35 AM
This.
Also they can see if you use cass and KCM if they feel like digging.

No they canít

NoValueAviator
07-31-2018, 05:11 AM
Ever feel like a prisoner?

There shouldn't be any investigation of someone who calls in sick like twice a year, even if it is obvious that they were only really sick once.

tomgoodman
07-31-2018, 05:29 AM
Ever feel like a prisoner?

There shouldn't be any investigation of someone who calls in sick like twice a year, even if it is obvious that they were only really sick once.

Be very careful here. At some airlines, missing one trip is not a firing offense, but lying to the company is. :(

Cyio
07-31-2018, 09:05 AM
This whole thread makes me wonder what day and age we are in. I feel like we work in Stalingrad after WWII. Company checking our social media, kcm, cass,flight benefits, did we actually charge our insurance at the doctor? Do they also call around to past captains/foís to see if we ever talked about using a sick call inappropriately?

Hope they donít have access to anything on here that they can use against us in front of the cpo tribunals.

Good luck on your honeymoon, should you get to go, but should you, be sure to fully debrief your wife in case they call her too.
Good god.

Cyio
07-31-2018, 09:10 AM
Be very careful here. At some airlines, missing one trip is not a firing offense, but lying to the company is. :(

This thinking scares me. If I have tried everything to get off a trip and decide to use a sick call, that is my decision, not the companies. Last I checked I am in charge of my health and if I am fit to fly, not the company.

If missing something at home is causing me enough stress, that is a valid sick call in my book.

I am not advocating abusing the system, but what I deem being sick is my choice unless the fm1 explicitly defines what ďsickĒ is.

Skip0927
07-31-2018, 02:50 PM
This whole thread makes me wonder what day and age we are in. I feel like we work in Stalingrad after WWII. Company checking our social media, kcm, cass,flight benefits, did we actually charge our insurance at the doctor? Do they also call around to past captains/foís to see if we ever talked about using a sick call inappropriately?

Hope they donít have access to anything on here that they can use against us in front of the cpo tribunals.

Good luck on your honeymoon, should you get to go, but should you, be sure to fully debrief your wife in case they call her too.
Good god.

Well said,
It is awfully Orwellian around here....

Ijustlikeflying
07-31-2018, 03:28 PM
Well said,
It is awfully Orwellian around here....

They keep sending these company surveys etc. and you know what Iíd like to see...

...The company to get off our back for sick calls. You get 4 and guess what, if you use them beyond that then they have every right to request doctors notes and investigate. It is pathetic that we are in a industry of professionals and we are treated like 4th grade parochial school kids.

ďNow little Johnny, Iím going to need that doctors note from your mommy...or you will have to serve detentionĒ
...in our case a mark on our record with AAG or even termination of employment.


Itís ridiculous and quite frankly embarrassing for the company and ourselves. What other professional industry does this? If they are worried about us all using 4 a year freaking decrease it to 3 then. Just get off our backs..

Btw. Iíve never called in sick and frankly, havenít needed to. Iíve been lucky my first two years here with not getting sick. However, I want to know that when I am sick, that I can call in sick and focus on recovering, not playing the Envoy run around to please the people in the CPO. It should just be a quick call to crew scheduling ďhey Iím sickĒ and thatís the end of it. Unless you get to 4 you shouldnít have to answer to anyone. Itís ridiculous.

MD-11Loader
07-31-2018, 04:13 PM
No they canít

Actually they can. When you attempt to use CASS on another carrier it sends a message to AA to verify your employment. They will know that you attempted to jumpseat. This comes directly from the mouth of your MEC.

LineUpAndPay
07-31-2018, 06:50 PM
They keep sending these company surveys etc. and you know what Iíd like to see...

...The company to get off our back for sick calls. You get 4 and guess what, if you use them beyond that then they have every right to request doctors notes and investigate. It is pathetic that we are in a industry of professionals and we are treated like 4th grade parochial school kids.

ďNow little Johnny, Iím going to need that doctors note from your mommy...or you will have to serve detentionĒ
...in our case a mark on our record with AAG or even termination of employment.


Itís ridiculous and quite frankly embarrassing for the company and ourselves. What other professional industry does this? If they are worried about us all using 4 a year freaking decrease it to 3 then. Just get off our backs..

Btw. Iíve never called in sick and frankly, havenít needed to. Iíve been lucky my first two years here with not getting sick. However, I want to know that when I am sick, that I can call in sick and focus on recovering, not playing the Envoy run around to please the people in the CPO. It should just be a quick call to crew scheduling ďhey Iím sickĒ and thatís the end of it. Unless you get to 4 you shouldnít have to answer to anyone. Itís ridiculous.to be fair, what you're describing is what happens. The horror stories you hear are from guys who are beyond the 3-4/year mark. I haven't called in sick in over a year and a half and and got sick earlier this year, called in and the phone call with scheduling was 30 seconds. Got an HI6 a few days later saying my sick call had been marked as cleared by the CPO and my obligations per FM1 had been completed. No problems, no issues. The only conversation I had was the 30 seconds with scheduling. It's these guys who are calling in every other month that get issues.

Pedro4President
08-01-2018, 01:07 AM
to be fair, what you're describing is what happens. The horror stories you hear are from guys who are beyond the 3-4/year mark. I haven't called in sick in over a year and a half and and got sick earlier this year, called in and the phone call with scheduling was 30 seconds. Got an HI6 a few days later saying my sick call had been marked as cleared by the CPO and my obligations per FM1 had been completed. No problems, no issues. The only conversation I had was the 30 seconds with scheduling. It's these guys who are calling in every other month that get issues.

With a pilot group as large as ours people are going to go through some health crap. Just because it doesn't effect you now doesn't mean you are safe later.
A few things to note.

Mental health is just as important as physical health.

If you have sick time in the bank then there's SHOULD be no need for harassment by the CPO. Ever.

Don't abuse the system there are other ways to use sick time. I.E. DTS.

Bigpimppilot
08-01-2018, 08:37 AM
Please do not put in a drop request and then call in sick if you donít get it. People have gotten step letters for much less

rickair7777
08-01-2018, 08:43 AM
Don’t overthinking this. If you can’t drop it, and you know the CPO won’t help, call in sick. Get the doctors note from MinuteClinic in advance. Don’t non-rev on your own airline or buy zeds through the company portal. Rev is fine, but best to avoid being seen on company. CASS pings are not archived and KCM is privately held. When you notify them of your marriage for benefits, benefits and travel depts are not going to compare that to your attendance. Companies don’t have time for this level of investigation. Your greatest chances of getting caught is via social media.

In general, airlines can access CASS and KCM info if they really want to (some are known to do that).

Pings to the CASS Db itself may not be archived, but the portal used by any particular company could record all lookups (especially own company).

I would travel offline rev and don't use KCM.

Also... if the airline wanted you to have a wife, they would have issued you one (and payroll deducted her).

rickair7777
08-01-2018, 08:46 AM
Please do not put in a drop request and then call in sick if you donít get it. People have gotten step letters for much less

Yeah if you absolutely must have the day off...

1) Bid for it.
2) If you don't get it, do not leave any other paper trail (drops, trades, incentives, etc)
3) Call in sick (good idea to get a docs note)

If practical don't get photographed while engaging in "non sick" activities.

I actually have a buddy who gets a docs note for 'roids... treatment is to not sit for extended periods :rolleyes:

Cyio
08-01-2018, 09:24 AM
Yeah if you absolutely must have the day off...

1) Bid for it.
2) If you don't get it, do not leave any other paper trail (drops, trades, incentives, etc)
3) Call in sick (good idea to get a docs note)

If practical don't get photographed while engaging in "non sick" activities.

I actually have a buddy who gets a docs note for 'roids... treatment is to not sit for extended periods :rolleyes:
That last part is brilliant.

Quarryman
08-06-2018, 05:26 PM
Well said,
It is awfully Orwellian around here....

Classical theory of regional airline management:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

highfarfast
08-06-2018, 06:20 PM
Classical theory of regional airline management:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon

Haha, clever!

llws
08-10-2018, 12:13 PM
Yeah if you absolutely must have the day off...

1) Bid for it.
2) If you don't get it, do not leave any other paper trail (drops, trades, incentives, etc)
3) Call in sick (good idea to get a docs note)

If practical don't get photographed while engaging in "non sick" activities.

I actually have a buddy who gets a docs note for 'roids... treatment is to not sit for extended periods :rolleyes:

Don't get photographed at your own wedding...

llws
08-10-2018, 12:15 PM
Please do not put in a drop request and then call in sick if you donít get it. People have gotten step letters for much less

Which is insane. Even if you get a drop request denied, that doesn't mean you can't get sick weeks later for the trip in question. Really, you might get some extra scrutiny because of it, but if you're sick you're sick.



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