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View Full Version : Future airline hiring wave


mikey1029
05-27-2018, 07:31 PM
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.

My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.


Excargodog
05-27-2018, 07:58 PM
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.

My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.

Peak retirements from the majors will be in the 2022-2023 timeframe. Unless you can arrange an early transfer from active duty to a guard or reserve position you will miss the peak, but they will still be relatively high six or seven years from now.

How many additional openings will occur depends upon how the economy is doing at that time. If you can predict that with any certainty, pm me with stock tips.;)

BeatNavy
05-27-2018, 09:09 PM
Hey all, so Im going to be shipping out for basic training in the Army next month and enlisted for 6 years. Im hoping to drop a warrant packet to become a helo pilot. I read that former helo pilots only require 750 hours to be hired by regionals.
Im also going to be finished with my bachelors during that time or hopefully at the regionals.

My question is after the enlistment of 6 years and the training to get the fixed wing licenses, will it still be a shortage of pilots? Because I hear now is the best time to become a pilot.

If you are going to drop a warrant packet, you'll need some LORs from senior officers and/or warrant officers, and possibly chain of command support. As a brand new guy, some commanders may not sign off on that until a period of demonstrated excellence (not sure if commander's signature is required for warrant packet, but likely is). Most guys I know who wrote LORs for people required the whole packet to be complete (minus the LORs), a review of the packet and an interview. As a brand new private, it may be difficult to get enough CW4/CW5s to write you letters of rec from your local aviation brigade, and that's assuming you are stationed where an aviation unit is located. The earliest I saw someone get a warrant packet approved was at the 4 year mark. Maybe there are some that do it more quickly. Not saying it can't be done sooner, but most warrants I went to flight school with were either high school to flight school, or E5-E7s.

What is stopping you from applying for the WOFT street-to-seat/highschool to flight school program? Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you couldn't do it and had to enlist first? I would never advise my friends, or my own kids to enlist hoping to get a warrant packet approved. It isn't quick. Or, you can apply off the street as a high school kid and go straight to flight school. And there are guard units right now hurting for pilots. My stick buddy (army speak for sim/flying parter) was 18 and right off the street.

I know zero about your situation, and everyone has reasons for doing stuff, but if I were you, I'd tear up the contract you have, and insist on getting a flight/warrant contract.

Let's assume you drop your packet and get it approved in 3 years from now (though 5 is more conservative and realistic). Then you go to Rucker a year later after you get your packet submitted and accepted. That's 4 years from now. You leave rucker after 1.5 years of flight school (5.5 from now). Your commitment is 6 years from getting wings, although I heard that is going to 8. For arguments sake, lets say its 6...so that's 11.5 years from now. You'll have your GI bill by then, and/or you start doing an RTP, if they are still around in 11-12 years. The soonest you could touch an airline cockpit is 12 years from now. I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15 years depending on the aforementioned variables.

If you go straight to warrant, 1) your pay will be higher, 2) your commitment will end sooner, and 3) you might be able to get to the airlines before the hiring wave slows significantly. If you go guard, all of the above is true, but you can go part time for your commitment and can get an airline job before your flight commitment is up.

If you really want to be an airline pilot, there are programs out there and loans available that can accelerate that process and get you in a jet cockpit a lot faster...like 3-4 years. With regional pay/bonuses, it's doable. You can enlist or go warrant in the guard after you've started that journey if you really want to.

Anyway, hate to try to steer you away from your current course if that's what you want, but I want you to have your eyes wide open about the reality of the path you are trying to go down. If your end-state is airlines, there are quicker ways to get there, and ones that will put you a whole lot better off in the long run seniority wise. And this industry will likely be way different in 12 years.

Good luck whatever you do, and thanks for serving.


mikey1029
05-27-2018, 09:45 PM
If you are going to drop a warrant packet, you'll need some LORs from senior officers and/or warrant officers, and possibly chain of command support. As a brand new guy, some commanders may not sign off on that until a period of demonstrated excellence (not sure if commander's signature is required for warrant packet, but likely is). Most guys I know who wrote LORs for people required the whole packet to be complete (minus the LORs), a review of the packet and an interview. As a brand new private, it may be difficult to get enough CW4/CW5s to write you letters of rec from your local aviation brigade, and that's assuming you are stationed where an aviation unit is located. The earliest I saw someone get a warrant packet approved was at the 4 year mark. Maybe there are some that do it more quickly. Not saying it can't be done sooner, but most warrants I went to flight school with were either high school to flight school, or E5-E7s.

What is stopping you from applying for the WOFT street-to-seat/highschool to flight school program? Did your recruiter lie to you and tell you that you couldn't do it and had to enlist first? I would never advise my friends, or my own kids to enlist hoping to get a warrant packet approved. It isn't quick. Or, you can apply off the street as a high school kid and go straight to flight school. And there are guard units right now hurting for pilots. My stick buddy (army speak for sim/flying parter) was 18 and right off the street.

I know zero about your situation, and everyone has reasons for doing stuff, but if I were you, I'd tear up the contract you have, and insist on getting a flight/warrant contract.

Let's assume you drop your packet and get it approved in 3 years from now (though 5 is more conservative and realistic). Then you go to Rucker a year later after you get your packet submitted and accepted. That's 4 years from now. You leave rucker after 1.5 years of flight school (5.5 from now). Your commitment is 6 years from getting wings, although I heard that is going to 8. For arguments sake, lets say its 6...so that's 11.5 years from now. You'll have your GI bill by then, and/or you start doing an RTP, if they are still around in 11-12 years. The soonest you could touch an airline cockpit is 12 years from now. I'm guessing it'll be closer to 15 years depending on the aforementioned variables.

If you go straight to warrant, 1) your pay will be higher, 2) your commitment will end sooner, and 3) you might be able to get to the airlines before the hiring wave slows significantly. If you go guard, all of the above is true, but you can go part time for your commitment and can get an airline job before your flight commitment is up.

If you really want to be an airline pilot, there are programs out there and loans available that can accelerate that process and get you in a jet cockpit a lot faster...like 3-4 years. With regional pay/bonuses, it's doable. You can enlist or go warrant in the guard after you've started that journey if you really want to.

Anyway, hate to try to steer you away from your current course if that's what you want, but I want you to have your eyes wide open about the reality of the path you are trying to go down. If your end-state is airlines, there are quicker ways to get there, and ones that will put you a whole lot better off in the long run seniority wise. And this industry will likely be way different in 12 years.

Good luck whatever you do, and thanks for serving.

Thank you for your in depth response.

Im actually going in aviation as a black hawk mechanic. Thats why the commitment is so long. I do have some strong LORs so only problem would be chain of command.
My packet is half way there(doing it on my own), I just need to take the SIFT. I scored very high on the ASVAB and high GT score.
Its actually really funny that you pointed out about my recruiter lying to me haha but it is somewhat suspect what he said.
He practically will not let me put in a street to seat. Something about my past misdemeanor.
I mean hes a really great person and helping me out alot with the mos and duty stations whatnot. Hes really going above and beyond trying to help me out, just wont let me go street to seat, He said I can do it after I get to my unit after AIT.

I do want to serve before its too late but the end goal is airlines. wether regional or major, I WANT to fly commercial fixed wing.

BeatNavy
05-27-2018, 10:26 PM
Thank you for your in depth response.

Im actually going in aviation as a black hawk mechanic. Thats why the commitment is so long. I do have some strong LORs so only problem would be chain of command.
My packet is half way there(doing it on my own), I just need to take the SIFT. I scored very high on the ASVAB and high GT score.
Its actually really funny that you pointed out about my recruiter lying to me haha but it is somewhat suspect what he said.
He practically will not let me put in a street to seat. Something about my past misdemeanor.
I mean hes a really great person and helping me out alot with the mos and duty stations whatnot. Hes really going above and beyond trying to help me out, just wont let me go street to seat, He said I can do it after I get to my unit after AIT.

I do want to serve before its too late but the end goal is airlines. wether regional or major, I WANT to fly commercial fixed wing.

That scumbag is lying to you. Don’t take his crap. He’s not a “great person” by helping you out a lot, he’s doing what we taxpayers pay him to do. But he isn’t even doing that...he’s lying to you. If he was truly helping you out, he’d help you with your warrant packet. The problem is, warrants don’t help fill his quotas. With all the required training, it takes too long to count for his numbers. That’s why he’s trying to hook you up. Misdemeanor? That won’t prevent you from going straight to warrant.

The warrants in my class who were prior crew chiefs, who, like you were lied to by the recruiter, had so much animosity toward their recruiter for wasting 3-5 years of their life. Makes their blood boil. And it makes mine do the same. Your first interaction with a noncommissioned officer in the Army is a guy who is lying to you to benefit himself. It’s an effing shame.

Tell him you are going warrant, or you are walking out the door and tearing up your contract. If he says no, demand to talk to his commander, or tell him you are going to the IG (inspector general) for him lying to you. Watch how quickly he helps you out. Or, if you want, pm me his phone number, and I’ll call him with you on the line.

mikey1029
05-27-2018, 11:14 PM
That scumbag is lying to you. Don’t take his crap. He’s not a “great person” by helping you out a lot, he’s doing what we taxpayers pay him to do. But he isn’t even doing that...he’s lying to you. If he was truly helping you out, he’d help you with your warrant packet. The problem is, warrants don’t help fill his quotas. With all the required training, it takes too long to count for his numbers. That’s why he’s trying to hook you up. Misdemeanor? That won’t prevent you from going straight to warrant.

The warrants in my class who were prior crew chiefs, who, like you were lied to by the recruiter, had so much animosity toward their recruiter for wasting 3-5 years of their life. Makes their blood boil. And it makes mine do the same. Your first interaction with a noncommissioned officer in the Army is a guy who is lying to you to benefit himself. It’s an effing shame.

Tell him you are going warrant, or you are walking out the door and tearing up your contract. If he says no, demand to talk to his commander, or tell him you are going to the IG (inspector general) for him lying to you. Watch how quickly he helps you out. Or, if you want, pm me his phone number, and I’ll call him with you on the line.

Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?

Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.

BeatNavy
05-27-2018, 11:32 PM
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?

Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.

https://www.reddit.com/r/army/comments/5lgzkh/writeup_woft_street_to_seat/

Army street to seat - General Military Helicopter Discussions - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums (http://helicopterforum.verticalreference.com/topic/20138-army-street-to-seat/)

You can google a whole lot more but there’s some good reading on those two. The army doesn’t own you (yet). You aren’t stepping on toes. Ask the recruiter and the commander to show you the regulation stating you can’t apply to or be accepted into the WOFT program. You aren’t stepping on toes. I know you’re close, pumped up, and you’ve come a long way, but you need the pump the brakes. Tell your recruiter if he won’t help you with your warrant application, you’ll find one who will (I still suggest the IG, because these lying clowns need to get spanked). They are not helping you reach your life goals of being an army and airline pilot. They are working against that pathway for you.

There is only 1 person who will EVER look out for you and your career in the army. And that is you. Your recruiter, your team leader, your squad leader, your platoon sergeant, your lieutenant, and your commander may say they are looking out for you, and they may sometimes, and will generally try, but they are worrying about a lot more than your career. Manage your own career. You have to. And that starts at the beginning.

BeatNavy
05-27-2018, 11:36 PM
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?

Its just really annoying though to be honest... I really just want to do it. And I know Im not the best street candidate, but I want to try without stepping on anyones toes.
Its my recruiter and the commander are saying the same things.

And no. Once you ship, your recruiter and your MEPS will not talk to your basic training unit and tell them to make your life hell. They won’t even care about you, except for whether you pass as that affects their numbers. As much as they may make you feel important, you are a number to them. It’s a business deal. They want you to sign up and enlist, bc that is their job to fill enlisted slots. That’s how they are rated as NCOs and officers. You will be treated just like everyone else. If they threaten you with something like that, that’s another IG complaint, but I doubt they would.

kbay hombre
05-28-2018, 11:31 AM
And no. Once you ship, your recruiter and your MEPS will not talk to your basic training unit and tell them to make your life hell. They won’t even care about you, except for whether you pass as that affects their numbers. As much as they may make you feel important, you are a number to them. It’s a business deal. They want you to sign up and enlist, bc that is their job to fill enlisted slots. That’s how they are rated as NCOs and officers. You will be treated just like everyone else. If they threaten you with something like that, that’s another IG complaint, but I doubt they would.

Listen to BeatNavy. His screen name and his football taste may be horribly misguided, but he's giving you solid advice here. If you are dead set on enlisting first, go Air National Guard as a KC-135 aerial refueler or something like that where you'll fly a lot and get in good with a local air guard unit. Local air guard units like to hire their own enlisted personnel for UPT slots (flight school) and you'll be better set up to go to the airlines this way too flying fixed wing heavies.

Not to take away from Army WOFT. If that's your dream, do it, but don't enlist first unless you truly want to be enlisted and risk never being a pilot, because brother, the army owns you once you ship to Jackson or wherever you are going through BCT and it will never be a guarantee that you'll go to flight school if you go this route. It's not too late to get out of this and apply for WOFT directly or the air national guard. Also, a misdemeanor is nothing. The military is hurting for people, pilots included. If it was a felony, it would depend on the type (there are waivers for a lot of non-violent felonies), but don't let this stop you from going straight to flight school if that is what you really want.

Gordie H
05-28-2018, 11:40 AM
To the OP, I don’t know anything about the Army rotor programs but sounds to me like BeatNavy is offering up some pretty good advice here.

I’m 20 years prior Air Force, flew for 15. Before I went to UPT I did a stint in a recruiting unit…I wasn’t actually a recruiter but worked in a support function. I can absolutely tell you it’s 100% about the numbers. The recruiter’s performance is solely judged on how many people they successfully enlist. Military recruiters are professionally trained salesmen…it’s just the way it is.

If you walk into an Air Force recruiting office and tell them you want to be on a boat, they’ll say “sure” and then try to sell you on their programs. They would never walk you next door to the Navy or Coast Guard recruiter. In the same way, I doubt your recruiter would help with this off the street rotor program (since it sounds like he won’t get “credit” for it).

And like Navy said, nothing at all wrong with enlisting (or going Guard, OTS, whatever)….you just want to choose the route that’s best for you. The “service” part comes later when you get short orders for Afghanistan dropped on you when you had other life plans or something like this.

And one more important thing....unless things have changed (but I doubt it) – you CAN still change your mind at this point about enlisting without needing ANY reason at all. You can change your mind up until the day you ship out for boot camp. For obvious reasons, this option is not readily “advertised”. It was called a Delayed Entry Program Discharge…you tell your recruiter you’ve changed your mind and you don't want to enlist. He'll schedule a time for you to go in and see him, sign paperwork (2mins) and then, you’re free to pursue other avenues. Probably not a bad idea to bring a parent or some kind of mentor with you for support. Just something to keep in mind as an option. This did happen from time to time during my stint in recruiting.

Happy Memorial day bud & best of luck…feel free to PM or better yet take Navy up on his offer for help.

aeroengineer
05-28-2018, 12:40 PM
Good advice above.

1)I knew a former recruiter downrange and he admitted when it came to recruits it was "Fire and Forget" once they headed to basic. Not his problem any more. Just the reality.

2) Keep your eye on a program called "Forces to Flyers" it's pretty new but it is planned to take veterans and turn them into pilots on the civilian side. Like I said it's new so details to be worked out.

3) See number 2. I have opined that young potential recruits are now closing on a decision point in the hiring wave not unlike what you are facing. Forces to Flyers is touted to help reduce the pilot shortage and concurrently reduce demand on the military aviators the airlines seek. I see it as no win for the military. I offer a path to the airlines for vets so if airlines are my ultimate goal why would I not do a "relatively" (yes everything in the military is relative) quick 4 year enlistment followed by 2 years of flight training and off to my flying career or do a military aviation track with 2 years training followed by a 10 year ADSC before you even think of a seniority number with an airline. 6 versus 12 years. Just something to consider.

4) Take a mentor that's military savvy with you to the recruiter

Good Luck and Thanks for stepping up.

rickair7777
05-28-2018, 02:39 PM
Hey I appreciate you saying all this but cant he just be like "hey chain of command, make this guys life a living hell when he gets in"?



No. Not only no, but eff no. Many of us who have served have serious issues with the way enlisted recruiting is structured, and the way some recruiters operate. Like beatnavy said it really chaps my hide that this sort of blatant self-service is the first interaction which many new service members have with the military.


No recruiter would ever dare try to follow up with any command to harass a recruit. If they did it to one of my people there would be a court martial convened (I am someone who can make that happen, and am probably representative of others).

F4E Mx
05-28-2018, 05:51 PM
I would seriously consider going the USAF Guard route. In some locations you can attend college in the same city where the guard base is located. Try to get a degree in something that is actually useful, such as civil engineering. After you have your degree the Guard unit will most likely sponsor you for a UPT slot. You may decide flying for the guard is enough flying and pass on the airline career altogether. A friend of mine did just that becoming a commander of a KC-135 squadron and working full-time as an engineer. Best of luck to you.

FullFlaps
05-28-2018, 06:35 PM
I'm not a pilot, I just started flight training for a third career. I was enlisted ground active and reserve. Funny thing is I deployed more as a reservist than on active duty.

Your recruiter lied to you my man. Nothing new, you're just meat for the grinder in their eyes. It's really hard to finish shool on active duty as an enlisted man. Your command and immediate supervisors have to work with you. Quite frankly this usually does not happen at all if ever. Depending on your mos and needs of the military you will most likely be backfilling for units about to deploy or on workups for deployments. I'm not really sure about army aviation side but in the marines on deployments or work ups pre deployment it's 16 to 20 hour days every day. You will not have the time nor inclination to open a book. If operational tempo really ratchets up for any reason you might be clearing houses with grunts. Early OIF/OEF we had generator mechanics, cooks, supply guys, airframe guys, fuelers, basically anyone that wasnt busy at the time hop into hmmv's and clear buildings. Your wants and needs will always be secondary to that of the military. If you think just because I'm in aviation I won't be on the street? I can tell you for a fact that is not the case.

If you have the gpa and are relatively fit (1st class pft with ease) I would try to delay a year and see if you can get the senator recommendations for an appointment to one of the service academies or a rotc program with an aviation designation.

If not I would delay and apply for woft directly as many have mentioned street to seat.

Some have already mentioned this as well find a spot at an air guard unit as a reservist find a full time job that allows you to finish school then apply for a commission. Get an accounting degree or nursing something practical that also is a back up career. The military and airlines require any degree but get something you can fall back on in case airlines take a hit again.

If you really want to fly for the military I would go through the eye exams first and make sure you are eligible. The military tests for vision etc are much more stringent than faa requirements.

As far as recruiters go, get everything in writing. They have to give you a copy of the contract. First when you request a copy they'll give you a bunch of numbers and letters it's like binary code. They have to give you a copy that is legible in plain English. If they do not, get something in writing saying that they refuse to give you a copy in plain English. They are not your friend. They do not care about you. You are just a number to them.

mikey1029
05-28-2018, 08:09 PM
THANK YOU ALL for your helpful and informative replies!!

I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.

I mean whatever I can do to fly in the near future is what I want to do.
Are there any other routes in the Army that i can pursue?

I was originially going to attend a flight school but was not approved for a loan and my whole family lives overseas so i was looking for schools with dorms such as ATP. rejected by both wells fargo and sallie mae.
So thats why I began the process to become military.

The FORCES TO FLYERS sounds like it would be a good option.

Can someone explain how that works? Is it full flight training?
How many years have you have to have served?


Im totally willing to bear through my first contract If it would pay for flight training after I get out.

I would be just as happy to be a ARMY pilot as well. And eventually transition to fixed wing.

BUT I hear everyone, Im going to try and push to submit my Warrant packet. I already have a lot of the required checks on the list.

Once again Im so grateful for all your support and guidance!

FlightLevel350
05-28-2018, 08:54 PM
THANK YOU ALL for your helpful and informative replies!!

I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.

I mean whatever I can do to fly in the near future is what I want to do.
Are there any other routes in the Army that i can pursue?

I was originially going to attend a flight school but was not approved for a loan and my whole family lives overseas so i was looking for schools with dorms such as ATP. rejected by both wells fargo and sallie mae.
So thats why I began the process to become military.

The FORCES TO FLYERS sounds like it would be a good option.

Can someone explain how that works? Is it full flight training?
How many years have you have to have served?


Im totally willing to bear through my first contract If it would pay for flight training after I get out.

I would be just as happy to be a ARMY pilot as well. And eventually transition to fixed wing.

BUT I hear everyone, Im going to try and push to submit my Warrant packet. I already have a lot of the required checks on the list.

Once again Im so grateful for all your support and guidance!

There’s also the American Airlines Academy that just started. Their loan is through “Discover Loans” and it’s supposed to be geared towards people like you who may not have a co-signer. The ATP loan providers are more stringent because anyone can go into the ATP program and if they flunk out, they flunk out, there is no vetting process. Looking at the AA Academy, they seem to place a big emphasis on interviewing you and making sure that you’ll stick around to finish the training and thus to pay back the loan. This leads me to believe that perhaps their algorithm for loan authorization might be friendlier, but idk. Just an idea.

KSUto64
05-29-2018, 02:17 AM
As others have already mentioned I would not leave for basic without first exploring the WOFT option. That is how I came into the Army 7 years ago. From the time I left for basic to graduation from flight school was 2 years, AH64 course at the time was 6 months and there were still quite a few "bubbles" in training where you were stagnant. After that there is a 6 year commitment for completion of flight school, in total I will do 8 years and 8 months (took the ADSO for Instructor Pilot Course).

If your end goal is simply to be a pilot I would explore all other options before enlisting. There is absolutely no guarantee that you will get to go to flight school just because you are a maintainer. However you will no without a doubt thats where you are going if you do the street to seat(WOFT) program.

I would look into a guard unit as well, I believe there is still tuition assistance/GI bill with the guard. You can use that to help with going to an FAR Part 141 credited training school and be working on your CIV flight training as well as a MIL trained pilot. Then you would only need 750 hours total time between Military and civilian IOT qualify for the rATP and get hired onto a regional.

The time is now to get into the airlines or start working towards the flight time you need to get in. Losing 8 years to Active Duty will cost you a lot in terms of seniority and potentially retirement/401k benefits especially considering you are already 27.

Ohlsan
05-29-2018, 05:20 AM
If you make it to Army flight school, go the C-12 or Fixed Wing for life track. You will have everything you need to go to the regionals after your first 6 years and will most likely have the hours to go to a Major. When I went to army flight school you could not get the C12 but now you can get it as a W1. It is your best bet if you want to do 1 tour and be done.

aeroengineer
05-29-2018, 09:57 AM
Forces to Flyers.https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/dot3518 Like anything associated with Uncle Sugar make sure you read the fine print. Good Luck

Gordie H
05-29-2018, 04:14 PM
I might think Air Force would be out of the question because I am 27 going on 28 soon, so by the time I get a degree Ill be in my early 30s.



I’d say, generally speaking, you’re probably right regarding your age / Air Force options. There are still possibilities with the guard/reserves but it sounds like this off the street WOFT program IS the program for you.

So I think the first decision you need to make is are you going to enlist right now as an aviation mechanic if it comes to that (and it sounds like it is coming to that)? While you weigh this decision you would need to assume that you aren’t going to flight training during this 6 year period. And, with that in mind, you have to ask yourself would you be “ok” with that? Obviously I don’t know you, but from what you’ve written I’d say the answer is “No”.

With that I’d continue to ride your recruiter (politely / persistently) to get the WOFT application in. But if it doesn’t get done, don’t enlist. Just be honest with the recruiter at that point…I can give you some baseline phrases to help with this conversation if you want.

But if this all fails, find another recruiter, in a different town maybe, and keep pursuing the WOFT . While you’re working on that consider more traditional civilian flight training avenues, such as… save money, get PP on side, save more money, get IFR rating, etc. until you get CFI. You might be too old for ROTC etc. but you’re not even close to being too old to have a nice career flying.

sherpster
05-29-2018, 06:08 PM
It used to be 50/50 split for street v ad slots to woft. Lots of street slots with less competitive applicants. I blew 3.5 yrs going enlisted first. Dont make the same mistake a bunch of did. I got yelled at in AIT when I tried taking the FAST test while in training to be a medic. Go to ALLATPS and join a guard unit.

mikey1029
05-31-2018, 05:34 PM
So I was wondering how much credibility does a college degree from a school like excelsior or thomas edison have? They are both regionally accredited.
Credibility in terms of Major Airline hiring or OCS selection.

rickair7777
06-01-2018, 06:06 AM
So I was wondering how much credibility does a college degree from a school like excelsior or thomas edison have? They are both regionally accredited.
Credibility in terms of Major Airline hiring or OCS selection.

For majors, most are just looking for the degree from any accredited source. A few airlines would probably give extra credit for a degree from a top-tier school (ivy league, west coast equivalent, service academies). But I don't think any would disqualify your degree as long as it's accredited in the US.

For OCS, the school, major, and GPA will all contribute to your "whole person" package. The more, the better.

mikey1029
06-01-2018, 06:16 AM
For majors, most are just looking for the degree from any accredited source. A few airlines would probably give extra credit for a degree from a top-tier school (ivy league, west coast equivalent, service academies). But I don't think any would disqualify your degree as long as it's accredited in the US.

For OCS, the school, major, and GPA will all contribute to your "whole person" package. The more, the better.

Okay thank you! Because I'm planning to get my degree from excelsior college while on active duty via credit exams.
So that I won't have to worry about it hopefully once it's time to go to the majors!

hydrostream
06-01-2018, 10:19 AM
Unless your year group is drastically over-manned, you will not be out of the Army and available to the airlines for at least 8 years. And that's if you go street to seat!

If you try to enlist and then apply to WOFT you're going to be lucky to be out around 10.

I would avoid enlisting until you've exhausted your other options if your goal is to become a Warrant Officer. At a minimum you should try to go WOFT first and then enlist as a backup. If that doesn't work, try to find a guard unit that will take you on as a WOFT guy. They're rare, but they are out there if you pull the right strings.

If your goal is just to fly for the airlines and hit the hiring wave, then I'd enlist and only enlist. Make sure you stay in for at least 36 months and get your whole GI Bill benefit. Fly on the side when you can while you're in, and use your GI Bill to finish your ratings while you can. You'll also get tuition assistance to finish your degree while you're on active duty. CFI for a bit somewhere and then start applying.

I think that would truly be your quickest way to an airline seat since you said you cannot get loans. A lot changes in a decade, and that's what you will be giving to the Army if you go to flight school. It's a great job, I really enjoyed it and wouldn't trade my time for anything. But it IS a big commitment and one that you will have no flexibility to pursue other avenues.



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