Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Hot cabins


DENpilot
06-01-2018, 11:33 AM
Always appreciate the rides, but I gotta say something...

Not gonna mention the airline.

Last 3 commutes on this airline, passenger cabin was unbearably hot. Everytime, APU not started until just before departure. Today was the exception... Crew started the APU only after an elderly pax fainted from the heat. I'm not joking, the flight attendant on the exit row was having sweat drip down her neck.

Just a reminder it's summer. The ground air doesn't keep 100+ passengers cool in a humid environment.


galleycafe
06-01-2018, 12:22 PM
Wash, rinse, repeat.

I'm trying iced coffee for the summer months!

Plane Coffee

EMBFlyer
06-01-2018, 12:27 PM
Also on large-cabin airplanes like the A321 or 737-800, please DO NOT shut down the APU until the majority of the airplane has deplaned!


Qotsaautopilot
06-01-2018, 03:35 PM
Yep I was deadheading on a company aircraft. Gpu got plugged in and the pilots shut down the apu and split. No AC plugged in til I was almost out the door and I was in the back third of the plane. It was stifling.

PerfInit
06-01-2018, 03:59 PM
It will just get worse as fuel prices continue to rise...

mainlineAF
06-01-2018, 04:59 PM
Yep I was deadheading on a company aircraft. Gpu got plugged in and the pilots shut down the apu and split. No AC plugged in til I was almost out the door and I was in the back third of the plane. It was stifling.



They had a commute to catch. Canít blame em.

Qotsaautopilot
06-01-2018, 07:20 PM
They had a commute to catch. Canít blame em.

They couldíve left it running and left

captjns
06-01-2018, 08:03 PM
They could’ve left it running and left

Every carriers I’ve worked with prohibit leaving the aircraft unattended, with the APU running, unless maintanance is present at the aircraft or a crewmember is in the cockpit.

FLYBOYMATTHEW
06-01-2018, 09:11 PM
But profit sharing!

mainlineAF
06-02-2018, 02:21 AM
They couldíve left it running and left


Canít do that on my airplane so forget that was an option lol.

100LL
06-02-2018, 05:27 AM
First world pilot/passenger problems right here. Itís hot it happens. How do you think the generations felt years ago on the old pistons and early turboprops felt. They survived back then so can people today. However just by looking at the media and people in general everyone seems to getting weaker physically and mentally.

captjns
06-02-2018, 06:00 AM
First world pilot/passenger problems right here. It’s hot it happens. How do you think the generations felt years ago on the old pistons and early turboprops felt. They survived back then so can people today. However just by looking at the media and people in general everyone seems to getting weaker physically and mentally.

With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.

While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.

The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.

Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.

Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.

C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.

I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?

How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?

Bugaboo
06-02-2018, 07:32 AM
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.

While In the US and overseas, Iíve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. Iím not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.

The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline Iíve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.

Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Donít run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of ďCarbon Foot PrintĒ??? save $$$.

Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.

C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.

I just donít get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?

How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?

I fire it up whenever I feel like it. I could care less about the fuel cost.
My crew and pax deserve a comfortable cabin.

rickair7777
06-02-2018, 07:35 AM
If the airline wants to be environmental, they should announce at the gate that the air conditioning will not be run until after departure in order to save carbon. Then the pax can see how their PC sensibilities intersect with the real world and make their own informed decisions next time.

But yes, if no ground air then run the APU. I've never had an inop APU and no ground air, but using #2 as a big APU sounds like a good idea in that case. Most jet FOM/SOPs allow it, all of mine have.

beech1980
06-02-2018, 07:44 AM
Also on large-cabin airplanes like the A321 or 737-800, please DO NOT shut down the APU until the majority of the airplane has deplaned!

I 100% agree. I will not shut it off until the pax are off. If the ground air isnít doing itís job I have the ground crew unhook it and start the Apu back up. If their ground equipment doesnít work Iím not gonna let the passengers and crew suffer.. plain and simple..

CousinEddie
06-02-2018, 07:50 AM
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.

While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.

The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.

Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.

Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.

C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.

I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?

How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?

Unless you and the ramp crew have a written, approved procedure for doing this, you are putting the risk squarely on your shoulders. The cargo doors are all closed up as you are boarding, then the late bags show up from the other side of the airport. They drive right behind your idling engine and someone gets hurt. Who are they going to blame? Ridiculous, I know. But there is a risk to going off-script. If something goes wrong, you are the fall guy.

captjns
06-02-2018, 07:58 AM
Unless you and the ramp crew have a written, approved procedure for doing this, you are putting the risk squarely on your shoulders. The cargo doors are all closed up as you are boarding, then the late bags show up from the other side of the airport. They drive right behind your idling engine and someone gets hurt. Who are they going to blame? Ridiculous, I know. But there is a risk to going off-script. If something goes wrong, you are the fall guy.

Valid point...

By the grace of the Sky Gods, after briefing of the choreography and and with full concurrence with all parties concerned, never been in that position. There’s absolutely no difference during engine start and being advised last minutes bags have to be loaded on the jet with both motors runnning. Shut down two, open the bin, chuck the bag, close the bin, re-start number 2 and away we go. All that is covered in the brief. And yes... I’ve never had an issue with ground personnel regarding the above, as procedures are contained in our manuals. The Airline’s Ground Services Department provides and trains out station personnel normal and abnormal procedures accordingly.

EMBFlyer
06-02-2018, 09:38 AM
Plus, if DFW at least, the ground air is somewhat worthless because the ramp taps a hose off of it and routes 30% to the cargo bin.

gipple
06-02-2018, 11:02 AM
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.

While In the US and overseas, Iíve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. Iím not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.

The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline Iíve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.

Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Donít run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of ďCarbon Foot PrintĒ??? save $$$.

Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.

C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.

I just donít get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?

How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?

Best post Iíve seen in a long time.
Dilly dilly.
I promise you that your CEO wonít tolerate an unairconditioned office and neither should you.

Qotsaautopilot
06-02-2018, 01:43 PM
Every carriers Iíve worked with prohibit leaving the aircraft unattended, with the APU running, unless maintanance is present at the aircraft or a crewmember is in the cockpit.

Some allow it. Ours does

Herkflyr
06-02-2018, 05:47 PM
They had a commute to catch. Canít blame em.In other words, saying "FU" to the paying pax is just AOK if you "have a commute to catch."

mainlineAF
06-02-2018, 05:47 PM
In other words, saying "FU" to the paying pax is just AOK if you "have a commute to catch."



Donít be dramatic.

Herkflyr
06-02-2018, 05:51 PM
Donít be dramatic.It's a bit dramatic but saying "can't blame the crew for cuttin n runnin, after all they got a commute to catch" was reflective of a rather self absorbed mindset that isn't cool.

Ed Force One
06-02-2018, 05:54 PM
Some allow it. Ours does

Yeah... and if they have a problem with it, they can take it out of my profit sharing.

flysooner9
06-03-2018, 07:28 AM
It's a bit dramatic but saying "can't blame the crew for cuttin n runnin, after all they got a commute to catch" was reflective of a rather self absorbed mindset that isn't cool.

Are you a commuter?

crxpilot
06-03-2018, 08:03 AM
Big whoop. It gets people motivated to get off the plane sooner.

Rahlifer
06-03-2018, 08:18 AM
I was clicked on this expecting a serious discourse on flight attendants complaining about their hot flashes.

Baradium
06-03-2018, 12:29 PM
Are you a commuter?

I'm a commuter and think the same about that action. The importance placed on staying around varies greatly airline to airline though.

snackysmores
06-03-2018, 01:09 PM
At my (regional) airline captains get written up and face disciplinary action if they run the APU on the ground when ground air is available, even when the cabins are 90+. The only way I can get around it is walking my crew off the plane because it's unsafe to board.

SonicFlyer
06-03-2018, 01:20 PM
Big whoop. It gets people motivated to get off the plane sooner.

There are other ways to get people off the plane quicker:



https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/United-Passenger-Flight-1640-Delayed-Emergency-Exit-Inflatable-Slide-Newark-Airport--475115823.html

captjns
06-03-2018, 04:41 PM
At my (regional) airline captains get written up and face disciplinary action if they run the APU on the ground when ground air is available, even when the cabins are 90+. The only way I can get around it is walking my crew off the plane because it's unsafe to board.

I agree... conditioned air should be used whenever and where ever available. Crews have to proactive, step up to the plate, write a report when the conditioned air is providing adequate cooling. When appropriate, take a picture of the MFD, with a date and time stamp, showing the cabin temperature.

Management needs to ride around the system... especially to stations known to have defective conditioned air carts. Let them stay on the jet and experience the wonderful climate of the inside of a jet where its 85 degrees plus on a CAVOK day.

Otherwise let them write everyone up until they run out of paper. Crews were given COM, GOM, FOM, etc. to assist them in exercising judgement to ensure the crew, and passengers are safe.

ReadyRsv
06-05-2018, 07:04 AM
I agree... conditioned air should be used whenever and where ever available. Crews have to proactive, step up to the plate, write a report when the conditioned air is providing adequate cooling. When appropriate, take a picture of the MFD, with a date and time stamp, showing the cabin temperature.

Management needs to ride around the system... especially to stations known to have defective conditioned air carts. Let them stay on the jet and experience the wonderful climate of the inside of a jet where its 85 degrees plus on a CAVOK day.

Otherwise let them write everyone up until they run out of paper. Crews were given COM, GOM, FOM, etc. to assist them in exercising judgement to ensure the crew, and passengers are safe.

What country do you fly in?

Fr8Thrust
06-05-2018, 12:49 PM
I turn on the APU the moment I get onboard and the walk-around is complete. I turn off the APU when the aircraft has an unattended sit or is a RON. The APU is far more reliable than any ground equipment provided. Added reliability and better customer service, at the expense of someone elseís profit sharing. You can be sure, if my assigned airplane is hot, itís an equipment issue, not a mental one!

minimwage4
06-05-2018, 05:36 PM
Yea I was recently on a flight and the pilots had the PC air but it was blowing hot air. It was so hot you felt like you were actually breathing hot air like when you walk around PHX in the middle of August. The FA was sweating yet she wasn’t doing anything. Totally clueless. The pilots had their feet up probably playing candy crush or browsing APC... they finally disconnected when the doors closed. This whole time the APU was on too but not selected. Please pay attention.

Hilltopper89
06-05-2018, 10:28 PM
https://youtu.be/Akwm2UZJ34o

flensr
06-08-2018, 08:41 PM
A320 has an issue with valves chattering if the APU is running the packs while there is external conditioned air plugged in, so don't expect 320s to have the APU running the packs while external air is plugged in. Getting ground to unplug it can take quite a bit of time.

737 may not have that issue but I've been told it's "not good" to have the packs running while external air is plugged in, and it seems like some crews won't turn on the APU bleed and packs until after external air is disconnected. Again, that can take quite a while at some stations.

Yea, excuses, whatever. The CAs I've been flying with have been perfectly happy to turn on the APU and packs at the first word or hint that it's getting warm in back and I've done it a couple times myself when the CA wasn't around to confirm first.

Finally, yea. If there is a crew swap, the APU gets shut down until the next crew gets on the plane. One can only hope the incoming crew checks cabin temps when they arrive to see if they need the APU back on immediately.

Dolphinflyer
06-09-2018, 11:09 AM
A320 has an issue with valves chattering if the APU is running the packs while there is external conditioned air plugged in, so don't expect 320s to have the APU running the packs while external air is plugged in. Getting ground to unplug it can take quite a bit of time.

737 may not have that issue but I've been told it's "not good" to have the packs running while external air is plugged in, and it seems like some crews won't turn on the APU bleed and packs until after external air is disconnected. Again, that can take quite a while at some stations.


Don't know if you're VERBOTEN to touch it, but I usually run down and hit the red "off" button for the air unit.

Never have heard any negative feedback. I've heard loaders may be using a cool tap off the main line for the cargo areas, will pass on killing it in that case.

ReadyRsv
06-09-2018, 03:51 PM
Don't know if you're VERBOTEN to touch it, but I usually run down and hit the red "off" button for the air unit.

Never have heard any negative feedback. I've heard loaders may be using a cool tap off the main line for the cargo areas, will pass on killing it in that case.
Union rampers donít appreciate people doing there job. I just walk up to whomever I find first and ask them to turn off the air. I stand politely until they do. If they ask why Iím standing here I say I need it done ASAP but I donít want to ďtake anyoneís union workĒ They usually get the picture that I would have done it myself but out of respect to my fellow union member I am letting them take care of it. If at that point they say no then I just do it myself. I gave them the chance. Lots of rampers arenít informed that the cabin can get hot with the air on, also.

echelon
06-09-2018, 04:46 PM
Union rampers donít appreciate people doing there job. I just walk up to whomever I find first and ask them to turn off the air. I stand politely until they do. If they ask why Iím standing here I say I need it done ASAP but I donít want to ďtake anyoneís union workĒ They usually get the picture that I would have done it myself but out of respect to my fellow union member I am letting them take care of it. If at that point they say no then I just do it myself. I gave them the chance. Lots of rampers arenít informed that the cabin can get hot with the air on, also.

You're pulling air yourself? Why not pull power yourself too, or maybe go ahead and hook up the tow bar or load some bags?

Thanks but I'll continue doing MY job, and ONLY MY job.

Andrew_VT
06-10-2018, 05:52 AM
You're pulling air yourself? Why not pull power yourself too, or maybe go ahead and hook up the tow bar or load some bags?

Thanks but I'll continue doing MY job, and ONLY MY job.

I don't know if I'd call hitting a red button before walking up the stairs after my walk-around "doing someone else's job".

tunes
06-10-2018, 06:02 PM
You're pulling air yourself? Why not pull power yourself too, or maybe go ahead and hook up the tow bar or load some bags?



Thanks but I'll continue doing MY job, and ONLY MY job.



Hitting the button to turn it off isn't "pulling air".
I've gone down and shut it off plenty of times but I'd never consider physically disconnecting it from the airplane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hilltopflyer
06-12-2018, 01:42 PM
Hitting the button to turn it off isn't "pulling air".
I've gone down and shut it off plenty of times but I'd never consider physically disconnecting it from the airplane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do my job and my job only. If you delay boarding for bad air I bet they will be quicker next time around.

labbats
06-12-2018, 04:32 PM
I do my job and my job only. If you delay boarding for bad air I bet they will be quicker next time around.

This guy gets it.

todhog2
06-12-2018, 07:05 PM
This guy gets it.

Some of you guys really over complicate this job. If I get on a plane with the APU off and ground air pumping so so air I'll let the walk around get done without all the noise. I tell the FO to push the red button on his way up and I start the apu to enjoy ice cold a/c. I don't do other people's jobs either but I'll push a button if it keeps me from waiting 15 minutes for ground personnel to do it.

I'm that guy that is one of the first people off the plane and when you get on it the air is cold and your head set is plugged it. Your welcome.

My company has made it abundantly clear what they think of its employees. I may be under paid but I'm not going to be uncomfortable or hungry. When they want to share the savings with me I'll start saving.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:09 PM
Every carriers Iíve worked with prohibit leaving the aircraft unattended, with the APU running, unless maintanance is present at the aircraft or a crewmember is in the cockpit.

Can do it at United.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:13 PM
Unless you and the ramp crew have a written, approved procedure for doing this, you are putting the risk squarely on your shoulders. The cargo doors are all closed up as you are boarding, then the late bags show up from the other side of the airport. They drive right behind your idling engine and someone gets hurt. Who are they going to blame? Ridiculous, I know. But there is a risk to going off-script. If something goes wrong, you are the fall guy.

If the APU is INOP, and you need a huffer for start, my experience it will also run the packs before start. So just have them connect and run it early to cool the aircraft.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:16 PM
A320 has an issue with valves chattering if the APU is running the packs while there is external conditioned air plugged in, so don't expect 320s to have the APU running the packs while external air is plugged in. Getting ground to unplug it can take quite a bit of time.

737 may not have that issue but I've been told it's "not good" to have the packs running while external air is plugged in, and it seems like some crews won't turn on the APU bleed and packs until after external air is disconnected. Again, that can take quite a while at some stations.

Yea, excuses, whatever. The CAs I've been flying with have been perfectly happy to turn on the APU and packs at the first word or hint that it's getting warm in back and I've done it a couple times myself when the CA wasn't around to confirm first.

Finally, yea. If there is a crew swap, the APU gets shut down until the next crew gets on the plane. One can only hope the incoming crew checks cabin temps when they arrive to see if they need the APU back on immediately.

I don't wait, I go outside and shut the air off. Spank me.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:18 PM
You're pulling air yourself? Why not pull power yourself too, or maybe go ahead and hook up the tow bar or load some bags?

Thanks but I'll continue doing MY job, and ONLY MY job.

Doing your job is to keep crew and PAX comfortable.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:20 PM
This guy gets it.

No he doesn't. At least at my airline for over 20 years. Call as many times as you want, the air usually gets pulled right before pushback.

Glenntilton
06-12-2018, 07:24 PM
I've come on aircraft after everyone has been boarded and it is hot. (late connection). I always ask the FAs why they allowed boarding under these conditions.

Baradium
06-12-2018, 09:02 PM
If the APU is INOP, and you need a huffer for start, my experience it will also run the packs before start. So just have them connect and run it early to cool the aircraft.

I had someone in a recurrent class a number of years ago who got CO poisoning from a bad huffer running packs.

captjns
06-13-2018, 04:59 AM
I had someone in a recurrent class a number of years ago who got CO poisoning from a bad huffer running packs.

Manuals within the manual system of Carriers I worked with restricted huffers solely for the use of strarting for the reasons, including the above.

hilltopflyer
06-13-2018, 08:31 AM
No he doesn't. At least at my airline for over 20 years. Call as many times as you want, the air usually gets pulled right before pushback.

So you deplane everyone till they get good air. If they can't go turn it off. Hurt the operation and it changes.

captjns
06-13-2018, 08:50 AM
So you deplane everyone till they get good air. If they can't go turn it off. Hurt the operation and it changes.

I donít understand your comment... clarify your statements.

The company(ies) I fly for entrusted me with the keys to the jet. I guess they trust my judgment:eek: Conditioned Air versus APU? More important things to worry about... ďWhereís my coffee with half & half (light cream overseas)?Ē

My previous post is obvious to the casual observer. The purpose of a huffer, is to provide air for starting the engine(s), and not to run the PACKS. Manuals from different airlines from different countries describe potential hazards due to fumes entering the cabin via the ACS.

I have, and and will continue, provided thereís no conditioned air cart at the jet, leave the APU running with air on. I/A/W SOPs, with the APU running, myself or the F/O will remain on the jet.

If we arrive at a heat soaked jet with no conditioned air, after the fire check... APU on PACKs on, coffee maker on the line:).

By the way the same applies for a cold soaked jet.

V1 McFlyerson
06-13-2018, 09:37 AM
I donít understand your comment... clarify your statements.

The company(ies) I fly for entrusted me with the keys to the jet. I guess they trust my judgment:eek: Conditioned Air versus APU? More important things to worry about... ďWhereís my coffee with half & half (light cream overseas)?Ē

My previous post is obvious to the casual observer. The purpose of a huffer, is to provide air for starting the engine(s), and not to run the PACKS. Manuals from different airlines from different countries describe potential hazards due to fumes entering the cabin via the ACS.

I have, and and will continue, provided thereís no conditioned air cart at the jet, leave the APU running with air on. I/A/W SOPs, with the APU running, myself or the F/O will remain on the jet.

If we arrive at a heat soaked jet with no conditioned air, after the fire check... APU on PACKs on, coffee maker on the line:).

By the way the same applies for a cold soaked jet.



Extra points deduction for your incessant douchiness of using "the jet" somewhere in every one of your posts (that I see).

450knotOffice
06-13-2018, 11:04 AM
Extra points deduction for your incessant douchiness of using "the jet" somewhere in every one of your posts (that I see).

Jeez, man. Lighten up, Francis. If the use of the phrase “the jet” bothers you, it’s YOU who have a problem. Not the poster.

captjns
06-13-2018, 12:41 PM
Extra points deduction for your incessant douchiness of using "the jet" somewhere in every one of your posts (that I see).

If ever there were a “No Fly List”, I’m sure you’re name would be at the top at your airline. Not only that, but a picture next to the list too.

symbian simian
06-13-2018, 02:37 PM
Every carriers Iíve worked with prohibit leaving the aircraft unattended, with the APU running, unless maintanance is present at the aircraft or a crewmember is in the cockpit.

Manuals within the manual system of Carriers I worked with restricted huffers solely for the use of strarting for the reasons, including the above.

Just me and my immediate family: seven airlines that allowed it (and 1 of the other 2 didn't have APU)

Baradium
06-13-2018, 08:48 PM
Just me and my immediate family: seven airlines that allowed it (and 1 of the other 2 didn't have APU)

They allowed both?

Hrkdrivr
06-14-2018, 02:16 PM
Extra points deduction for your incessant douchiness of using "the jet" somewhere in every one of your posts (that I see).

Says the guy with "V1" and "Fly" in his username...

Speedbird2263
06-16-2018, 07:09 AM
By the way the same applies for a cold soaked jet.

A few years ago we had the Polar Vortex extend its cold reach farther south than anyone could remember in recent times. ATL if I remember correctly reported temperatures below zero, with frost bite warnings being issued for rampers. As luck would have it, we got a tow-over aircraft from the hangar that met the very definition of cold soaked. All the Big water bottles and everything liquid in the galley were frozen rock solid and to top it off no APU and an abysmal conditioned air connection that was blowing cold air even in its warm setting. Starting one then boarding was not an option; first time I saw a jet refused for being too cold.

DeadHead
06-19-2018, 01:33 AM
Extra points deduction for your incessant douchiness of using "the jet" somewhere in every one of your posts (that I see).

Little sensitive much? Not sure how use of the words "The Jet" equates to douchiness.

FWIW, I've spoken to a few station managers/maintenance personnel in the past who've said that use of the huffer for aircraft pack usage puts an unusual demand on the air carts. I believe it has something to do with the use of high volume over short periods of time for engine starts, as opposed to high volume over long periods of time for pack operation (Burns up huffer's motor). Additionally, the air carts are not typically run on a regular basis so they are prone to breaking if used for long periods between cycles. Just what I've been told in the past.

gipple
06-19-2018, 08:35 AM
Noise, fumes, reliability. I know a huffer cart works, but it is rough on the ground crew. The hose gets smoking hot on a quick start. Iíd imagine they are not intended for continuous use.

gipple
06-21-2018, 02:39 PM
Passengers are all over this. Check out your airlineís Twitter. Instant connection to ***** about hot cabins.

Joachim
06-22-2018, 04:06 AM
One of the reasons for this occurring on a regular basis is micro management and excessive ďcrmĒ. As with everything else in this country the pendulum swings too far in either direction. Now you have ground crew telling captains to shut down the apu and captains oblige.

Fr8Thrust
06-22-2018, 11:27 PM
One of the reasons for this occurring on a regular basis is micro management and excessive ďcrmĒ. As with everything else in this country the pendulum swings too far in either direction. Now you have ground crew telling captains to shut down the apu and captains oblige.

Some guys just donít have a clue what theyíre doing...but thatís any job.

Anyone remember when UA/CO implemented APU police that would come onboard and turn off your APU?

SpeedyVagabond
06-23-2018, 05:20 AM
Some guys just don’t have a clue what they’re doing...but that’s any job.

Anyone remember when UA/CO implemented APU police that would come onboard and turn off your APU?

Lol. I'd reach up and turn it back on. If they squawked, I'd be too hot to complete my job and they can find another pilot to work in such conditions. If everyone stood their ground this way the APU police would quickly go the way of the Dodo. Summertime anywhere east of the Rockies and the APU is on during the preflight and turns. I couldn't care less about my company's desire to save fuel with respect to this issue. Provide me ground air that actually keeps the cabin cool for my passengers and crew and I'll utilize it. In 12 years of 121 flying I'm still seeking that magical beast.

ThePenguin328
06-23-2018, 05:32 AM
Anyone remember when UA/CO implemented APU police that would come onboard and turn off your APU?

Vaguely. However last month I had a 2 day LAX short overnight. Came out to the jet before boarding started to see both forward galley FAs standing in the entry door sweating. Also in the jetway standing near the open door to the ramp enjoying a cool breeze was the friendly (but useless) clipboard holder/STAR flight helper/on time police. Hi, I'm Peggy Sue from LAX CPO and I'm here to help because you are a STAR flight.....Yippe. Ok, I'll play... yes Peggy Sue, why is the cabin so hot? Mumbled reply.... So I ask, Why didn't you call someone (anyone) to turn off the ground air? Or Maintenance to start the APU and cool the cabin...? Classic reply.....well, it's not "my" aircraft. My reply....True, but it would help to ensure an on time departure if we had a cool cabin and not a hot cabin that requires us to delay boarding. Peggy Sue vanished so quickly she almost forgot her clipboard.... luv u LAX CPO!

EMBFlyer
06-26-2018, 05:25 PM
Some guys just donít have a clue what theyíre doing...but thatís any job.

Anyone remember when UA/CO implemented APU police that would come onboard and turn off your APU?

Didn't Delta have an APU Sheriff (complete with badge) that used to do the same thing?

tomgoodman
06-26-2018, 07:57 PM
Didn't Delta have an APU Sheriff (complete with badge) that used to do the same thing?

Yes, and cabins got so hot that now we need an Overwing Exit Sheriff. :p

fadec
06-27-2018, 03:50 AM
Don't run packs with huffer carts unless you enjoy breathing exhaust. I did it twice. The first time there was no problem. The second time I filled the cabin with fumes that made my throat sore and my eyes water. Who knows what cocktail of carbon monoxide pyrolyzed oil it contained.

Glenntilton
06-27-2018, 04:34 AM
Don't run packs with huffer carts unless you enjoy breathing exhaust. I did it twice. The first time there was no problem. The second time I filled the cabin with fumes that made my throat sore and my eyes water. Who knows what cocktail of carbon monoxide pyrolyzed oil it contained.

Never had a problem, so this is news to me. Won't do it in the future.

SIUav8er
07-06-2018, 02:52 PM
At my (regional) airline captains get written up and face disciplinary action if they run the APU on the ground when ground air is available, even when the cabins are 90+. The only way I can get around it is walking my crew off the plane because it's unsafe to board.

What?? Im 99.9% sure we work for the same dump, and I have never heard a THING about running the APU. Havent been "written up" by a part time ramper either. I run the APU's all spring/summer. Every leg. PCA available or not.

Until APU usage is restricted in our FOM/FSM, I will continue to do so. Im sure the idiot(s) who chose to buy these PCA's sits in a well air conditioned office.

ItnStln
07-17-2018, 11:37 AM
If the airline wants to be environmental, they should announce at the gate that the air conditioning will not be run until after departure in order to save carbon. Then the pax can see how their PC sensibilities intersect with the real world and make their own informed decisions next time.



Something tells me that wonít work, but I agree with you.

SurferLucas
07-21-2018, 12:39 PM
What?? Im 99.9% sure we work for the same dump, and I have never heard a THING about running the APU. Havent been "written up" by a part time ramper either. I run the APU's all spring/summer. Every leg. PCA available or not.

Until APU usage is restricted in our FOM/FSM, I will continue to do so. Im sure the idiot(s) who chose to buy these PCA's sits in a well air conditioned office.

That's exactly what I was thinking...I run the APU, period...unless it's 70 deg outside/less than full boat, then the PCA will work ok. Never had an issue with telling ops on the inbound "No PCA" because we're full in, full out and it's 80+ on the ramp.

All because someone made a business case for $75,000/piece PCA's and damnit, we're going to use them!

forgot to bid
07-22-2018, 09:44 AM
Fwiw for Delta. If the cabin is above 76F Delta says figure something better out which 99% of the time going to be APU ON. 320 fleet we just go turn off the air ourselves, it's a big red button that doesn't say 400Hz. The no packs and ground air simultaneously is an Airbus thing we comply with even though Delta says it hasn't seen the issue.

At 90F, considered an extreme temperature, if the cabin is not cooling quickly enough delay or suspend boarding.

No APU? A huffer cart can be used as long as Delta owns it. All of the above works fine and is used often if the APU is inop (rare on 320). Usually the problem child is an old 320 that's having bowel trouble and the APU air and ground air sucks, had that in atlanta on terminal F and we deplaned. They downed the jet anyways.

The 321 sucks on ground air so that's usually running 35 min prior to push until everyone is off. It can keep cabin at 70. On most 320s we run APU during single engine taxi because its required and some heavy flights we takeoff with it on and running the packs.

That's the APU policy as they write it, but the company wants APUs worked less, and ground air right to 5 prior to actual push. Some snap to and take it as a mission to save money over passenger comfort and they don't start the apu until push and never use it on the way in. The rest of us love taking good care of the wonderful people who fund the operation and we aim to keep them cool.

BMEP100
07-29-2018, 06:27 PM
Don't run packs with huffer carts unless you enjoy breathing exhaust. I did it twice. The first time there was no problem. The second time I filled the cabin with fumes that made my throat sore and my eyes water. Who knows what cocktail of carbon monoxide pyrolyzed oil it contained.

Done it dozens of times over the years on 27,37,57. Never had a problem. I do get nasty fumes from cranky old belt loaders exhaust.

Plus, using the huffer for packs gives me advance warning if it isn't going to handle the engine start load, which runs about 50% at my airline.