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SonicFlyer
06-05-2018, 08:58 AM
Destroyed the nose and windshield:

http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/travel/2018/06/05/american-airlines-plane-makes-emergency-landing-due-to-hail-damage-from-severe-weather/_jcr_content/article-text/article-par-5/inline_spotlight_ima/image.img.jpg/612/344/1528208519946.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Photos show damage to American Airlines plane from hail storm following emergency landing | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/06/05/photos-show-damage-to-american-airlines-plane-from-hail-storm-following-emergency-landing.html)


Newstick189
06-05-2018, 10:08 AM
Destroyed the nose and windshield:

http://a57.foxnews.com/images.foxnews.com/content/fox-news/travel/2018/06/05/american-airlines-plane-makes-emergency-landing-due-to-hail-damage-from-severe-weather/_jcr_content/article-text/article-par-5/inline_spotlight_ima/image.img.jpg/612/344/1528208519946.jpg?ve=1&tl=1

Photos show damage to American Airlines plane from hail storm following emergency landing | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/06/05/photos-show-damage-to-american-airlines-plane-from-hail-storm-following-emergency-landing.html)




Reading the comments following that news article gave me cancer.

rickair7777
06-05-2018, 10:45 AM
https://cdni.rt.com/files/2015.08/article/55c7e831c361888b4b8b45ba.jpg

Don't fly Fifi into hail.

At least the motors are tougher than the nose cone.


AirBear
06-05-2018, 11:01 AM
That must have been an interesting landing with the windshields mostly obscured by damage.

Adlerdriver
06-05-2018, 12:34 PM
That must have been an interesting landing with the windshields mostly obscured by damage. I'd be very surprised if they didn't use auto-land, stop and get towed.

rickair7777
06-05-2018, 01:45 PM
That must have been an interesting landing with the windshields mostly obscured by damage.

The side windows open.

https://s3.ap-southeast-1.amazonaws.com/images.deccanchronicle.com/dc-Cover-du630fscii3si2gap5of4jpsd6-20170906192222.Medi.jpeg

UAL T38 Phlyer
06-05-2018, 02:03 PM
Delta flt 1889 did the same thing to a Bus April 2015. Diverted to KDEN. Nose and windows look identical to this one.

badflaps
06-05-2018, 03:02 PM
The little white airplane animation looks like he zipped right into the red splotch.

AirBear
06-05-2018, 04:48 PM
I'd be very surprised if they didn't use auto-land, stop and get towed.

I agree as long as the equipment was working on the ground. Airbus does a great autoland, it's certified Cat 3b ILS with an engine out. With 3b you see the runway maybe a second or two before you land. And this was back in 2002, the last time I flew the 'bus.

Singlecoil
06-06-2018, 06:21 AM
I would wager this is a case of a fully attenuated echo. One of the meteorologists even alluded to that assertion.

trip
06-06-2018, 07:17 AM
I would wager this is a case of a fully attenuated echo. One of the meteorologists even alluded to that assertion.

No PAC alert? I know with some radars if you turn the gain up to get a better look at those dry storms it will suppress the PAC alert function.

It's really long past due we get some up to date live radar feeds on the tablets.

Adlerdriver
06-06-2018, 08:18 AM
I agree as long as the equipment was working on the ground. Equipment? You mean the ILS?
Just looked at ELP - they're kind of limited on them. One runway (22). But based on the ground track on flightradar, it looks like they got 22.


With 3b you see the runway maybe a second or two before you land. Unless your cockpit's still in the soup during the flare. There have been times I've seen nothing until the mains are on the ground and the nose is coming down.

SonicFlyer
06-06-2018, 08:28 AM
https://www.popularmechanics.com/flight/airlines/a21095482/american-airlines-1897-hail-storm-flight-path/





https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/hailplane-1528296272.jpg

AirBear
06-06-2018, 08:29 AM
I would wager this is a case of a fully attenuated echo. One of the meteorologists even alluded to that assertion.

The Phenom 300's at NetJets had the lightning finder overlay we kept on most the time. Sometimes you'd see a fairly benign looking buildup but then you'd see the lightning symbol in it and give it a wider berth.

I don't know what AA's Ops manual says about min distance from CB's but ours was 20 miles while enroute. Tough to do sometimes. This was to protect against hail which can be spit out quite a few miles from a CB, and also from lightning.

Adlerdriver
06-06-2018, 08:36 AM
I don't know what AA's Ops manual says about min distance from CB's but ours was 20 miles while enroute. Tough to do sometimes. This was to protect against hail which can be spit out quite a few miles from a CB, and also from lightning. Range from the storm is one factor. One needs to also consider winds aloft. 20NM downwind from a large storm may not be nearly enough. Personally, I'd take 10 NM upwind before I'd take 20 NM downwind from a big nasty one.

AirBear
06-06-2018, 08:51 AM
It's been almost 16 years since my last A320 flight, have they added any kind of autoland ability that doesn't need a Cat 3 ILS? In the Phenom we did the precision RNAV down to near ILS mins. I just looked at the plate for ILS 22 @ ELP. Looks like Cat 1 only but they do have the RVR's and stuff. I suppose the autoland would work with any ILS signal. Or they could have had some vis out the window, hard to tell without a closer up photo.

Equipment? You mean the ILS?
Just looked at ELP - they're kind of limited on them. One runway (22). But based on the ground track on flightradar, it looks like they got 22.


Unless your cockpit's still in the soup during the flare. There have been times I've seen nothing until the mains are on the ground and the nose is coming down.

Adlerdriver
06-06-2018, 09:09 AM
It's been almost 16 years since my last A320 flight, have they added any kind of autoland ability that doesn't need a Cat 3 ILS? In the Phenom we did the precision RNAV down to near ILS mins. I just looked at the plate for ILS 22 @ ELP. Looks like Cat 1 only but they do have the RVR's and stuff. I suppose the autoland would work with any ILS signal. Or they could have had some vis out the window, hard to tell without a closer up photo.
Autoland in any aircraft I've flown (including the A320) works with any ILS (I guess unless a specific ILS was otherwise restricted). On the 777 at FedEx, we are required to autoland on all Cat-2 and Cat-3 approaches. If I was going to autoland on any runway under VMC, I would make sure the tower knew. Hopefully, they'd keep the ILS protected area clear to minimize signal issues. In this type of emergency with limited forward visibility, I'd require them to do so.

rickair7777
06-06-2018, 09:59 AM
Range from the storm is one factor. One needs to also consider winds aloft. 20NM downwind from a large storm may not be nearly enough. Personally, I'd take 10 NM upwind before I'd take 20 NM downwind from a big nasty one.

x2.
..........

TroutBum
06-06-2018, 12:07 PM
We penetrated a cell back in my Navy days. I was the third pilot just about to go to sleep in the rack at the time. Then all hell broke loose. Our front radar was gone, so the rest of the trip involved doing 360 degree turns every so often to check weather with our aft radar. The hail put a hole in the radome that looked like it took a blast from a double barrel shotgun.

A very terrifying event . . .

awax
06-06-2018, 12:46 PM
Best troll comments from the link (so far)...



Durandal47
Please, someone knit me a Hilary joke about this......

Latriotsdad
There's more hail damage on Hillary's thighs than on that plane.

I've never seen her thighs, but that's just non-partisan funny.

atpcliff
06-06-2018, 01:52 PM
On another forum, a poster said an autoland was not possible due to damage to the aircraft (pitot systems, etc.), and that they had Airspeed Unreliable also...

trip
06-06-2018, 05:55 PM
On another forum, a poster said an autoland was not possible due to damage to the aircraft (pitot systems, etc.), and that they had Airspeed Unreliable also...

Not sure about the Bus but some A/C have the glideslope antennae in the nose.

rickair7777
06-06-2018, 07:00 PM
On another forum, a poster said an autoland was not possible due to damage to the aircraft (pitot systems, etc.), and that they had Airspeed Unreliable also...

I suspected they might be missing some CAT-III equipment.

Unreliable airspeed. Oh Joy. Even better with opaque windshields.

450knotOffice
06-07-2018, 09:07 AM
The radar and the ancient CRTís in the former LUS 319ís are horrible. Worst Iíve ever used in any transport category aircraft, to include the turboprops. Most of us are not surprised at all that this eventually happened in one of those airplanes.

They are nearly useless. Not kidding.

I believe the union may be trying to convince the company to finally do something about those radars.

The Multiscan radars in the Advanced models are excellent, by the way.

SunDevilPilot
06-07-2018, 05:48 PM
The radar and the ancient CRT’s in the former LUS 319’s are horrible. Worst I’ve ever used in any transport category aircraft, to include the turboprops. Most of us are not surprised at all that this eventually happened in one of those airplanes.

They are nearly useless. Not kidding.

I believe the union may be trying to convince the company to finally do something about those radars.

The Multiscan radars in the Advanced models are excellent, by the way.The -AW stands for "All Work".

swaayze
06-08-2018, 07:22 AM
I *think* an ILS is an ILS is an ILS. The difference is in lighting, markings and critical area protection, no?

rickair7777
06-08-2018, 09:38 AM
I *think* an ILS is an ILS is an ILS. The difference is in lighting, markings and critical area protection, no?

Yes in the sense that auto-land will work even if the ILS is not approved for CAT-II/III. The radio signals are same. A CAT-II/III ILS is going to have certain additional requirements, what you mentioned, plus likely tighter or more frequent flight check standards (USMCFlyer would know).

A CAT-I only ILS might produce a squirrely (or aborted) auto-land in the flare regime.

Cookie Puss
06-08-2018, 03:01 PM
A poor decision to partake in a Q and A session with passengers afterwards. I would never allow myself or my fellow crewmenbers to do such a thing.

450knotOffice
06-08-2018, 05:42 PM
I saw/heard a 2:30 clip of that and didnít think they said anything even remotely damning of them or the operation. They answered very basic questions that seemed to soothe the frazzled, confused crowd.

Personally, Iím much more of a private person anyway, so I wouldnít have done that myself.

rickair7777
06-08-2018, 07:15 PM
I saw/heard a 2:30 clip of that and didnít think they said anything even remotely damning of them or the operation. They answered very basic questions that seemed to soothe the frazzled, confused crowd.

Personally, Iím much more of a private person anyway, so I wouldnít have done that myself.

Tough call. I would be inclined to communicate, but these days you know it will be edited for sensationalism, taken out of context, then plastered all over the six o'clock news. You'd better have a way with words.

FlyJSH
06-15-2018, 04:57 PM
On another forum, a poster said an autoland was not possible due to damage to the aircraft (pitot systems, etc.), and that they had Airspeed Unreliable also...

I would be surprised if the crew did not make use of ASR callouts to assist with steadying the pitch/power/performance questions. It is only down to 412 agl, but added to a nice, long, straight-in, it might have helped spot a consistent and persistent error.



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