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View Full Version : 4-24-2018 Interviews


Neal72
06-06-2018, 06:26 AM
Received the "Welcome to the Pool" email this morning.......4-24-2018 interview. Like everyone else, looking to put some sort of timeframe together now. A question I keep hearing is whether or not Summer slows the training cycle?

Ideally for me, end of Summer is good......however will go when called. Just wanting to manage expectations.

Open for input/comments etc......

Thnx


RedOverWhite
06-06-2018, 06:44 AM
Last pool update email (sent in May) said two classes each for June and July. Have not heard anything additional about July classes or beyond, so maybe they will have them and maybe not. Iím sure the vacancy bid and the potential for a TA are also having an effect. Been in the pool for about a month now.

seekingblue
06-06-2018, 09:19 AM
Received the "Welcome to the Pool" email this morning.......4-24-2018 interview. Like everyone else, looking to put some sort of timeframe together now. A question I keep hearing is whether or not Summer slows the training cycle?

Ideally for me, end of Summer is good......however will go when called. Just wanting to manage expectations.

Open for input/comments etc......

Thnx

Congrats and welcome.

You are on-boarding at a unique time, because our staffing models will shift if our upcoming T/A does pass.

That said, if you are just getting the welcome to the pool email now, Iíd expect to hear something in Later September or October (maybe later).

As others have said, summer here is ďall hands on deckĒ and the instructors go through their training in August. So expect the classes to be few and far between this summer followed by classes really spooling up in the fall.


Bluedriver
06-06-2018, 09:35 AM
Congrats and welcome.

You are on-boarding at a unique time, because our staffing models will shift if our upcoming T/A does pass.

That said, if you are just getting the welcome to the pool email now, Iíd expect to hear something in Later September or October (maybe later).

As others have said, summer here is ďall hands on deckĒ and the instructors go through their training in August. So expect the classes to be few and far between this summer followed by classes really spooling up in the fall.

From what I've seen so far, I do not see a Titanic shift in staffing needs.

Vacation/PTO total time off is a push because the Vaca pool is now deducted at 35 hours instead of 24.5. Result no real change in staffing.

Vacation distribution in the summer will marginally improve. That's good. But will partially be offset at least on the FO side by removing all the OE hours from the FO bid. Captain side will require some additional staffing, BUT maybe not. Does the company consider using the new forced vacation cancellation for operational necessity more "cost effective" than upgrading more captains? Are you sure?

The reserve rules do appear more restrictive, and you would think more staffing is required... But with the 5 hour average day the 10-hour 3-days will not be in open time anymore. They will either be highly desirable trips or be built into longer 4-5 day trips. In addition, guys will likely be more inclined to pick up all open-time (not in a labor dispute, higher pay rate, potentially a little more credit). Plus call-in-well provisions, so guys can pick up the rest of their trip without assigning an entire 4-5 day to a reserve. More RSA/VDA takers for reasons mentioned. Net result, possibly not much in additional reserve staffing.

Drop to Zero credit? That's via the Trade board, not reserves.

What am I missing, what are you seeing that will push staffing notably higher?

seekingblue
06-06-2018, 10:09 AM
From what I've seen so far, I do not see a Titanic shift in staffing needs.

Vacation/PTO total time off is a push because the Vaca pool is now deducted at 35 hours instead of 24.5. Result no real change in staffing.

Vacation distribution in the summer will marginally improve. That's good. But will partially be offset at least on the FO side by removing all the OE hours from the FO bid. Captain side will require some additional staffing, BUT maybe not. Does the company consider using the new forced vacation cancellation for operational necessity more "cost effective" than upgrading more captains? Are you sure?

The reserve rules do appear more restrictive, and you would think more staffing is required... But with the 5 hour average day the 10-hour 3-days will not be in open time anymore. They will either be highly desirable trips or be built into longer 4-5 day trips. In addition, guys will likely be more inclined to pick up all open-time (not in a labor dispute, higher pay rate, potentially a little more credit). Plus call-in-well provisions, so guys can pick up the rest of their trip without assigning an entire 4-5 day to a reserve. More RSA/VDA takers for reasons mentioned. Net result, possibly not much in additional reserve staffing.

Drop to Zero credit? That's via the Trade board, not reserves.

What am I missing, what are you seeing that will push staffing notably higher?

Good post.

Not sure I have a great answer to your question, since I havenít seen the final language.

The biggest change will be the PTO sell back @ premium going away and split in PTO banks. I think ďforcingĒ a vacation for folks and having better vacation distribution will be what primarily drive our increased staffing needs.

EDIT: I didnít see vacation being deducted at 35 vs 24.5. Is that happening for sure? Where are you getting that information?

hyperboy
06-06-2018, 10:51 AM
Received the "Welcome to the Pool" email this morning.......4-24-2018 interview. Like everyone else, looking to put some sort of timeframe together now. A question I keep hearing is whether or not Summer slows the training cycle?

Ideally for me, end of Summer is good......however will go when called. Just wanting to manage expectations.

Open for input/comments etc......

Thnx

Congrats. Smaller classes over the summer. Interview dates are: One in June, One in July, none in August (OBAP focus). and then back to interviewing in August. Just a little over 100 on the pool. Roughly 127 new hires on the property (at OSC) since the beginning of the year. 250 planned for the year. This is always subject to change.

See you on the line!

Bluedriver
06-06-2018, 10:57 AM
Good post.

Not sure I have a great answer to your question, since I havenít seen the final language.

The biggest change will be the PTO sell back @ premium going away and split in PTO banks. I think ďforcingĒ a vacation for folks and having better vacation distribution will be what primarily drive our increased staffing needs.

EDIT: I didnít see vacation being deducted at 35 vs 24.5. Is that happening for sure? Where are you getting that information?

So I'll refer you back to my first post for the big picture, but also try and address your questions.

The 24.5 for 35 is gone on the VPTO side (the forced vacation side). Not sure about the 72 hours of regular PTO side yet. So that's why no real staffing increase from PTO accrual.

The loss of PTO sell-back at 150% should increase staffing requirements as guys are now more likely to take time off instead of sell back their PTO. But wait! All of the FORCED vacation will take place in Sept, Oct, Jan... No one needs to be forced to take Vaca in June, July or August.... So on the forced Vaca side, I see no additional staffing.

On the additional summer Vaca allocation, the modest increase in Vaca distribution in the summer should drive more staff. However, it will be partially offset on the FO side by the company removing all the OE hours from the FO bid. On the CA side I expect the company will do what it always does, under staff, under-upgrade CAs and run "hot" all summer and will use their self-inflicted short staffing to justify the use of the new "forced vacation buy-back" language to take vacation away as-needed by the company... So... Again I see minimal staffing from Vaca distribution.

We'll all have some better visibility once the language is released.

django
06-06-2018, 11:35 AM
I find delightful how my colleagues will make statements about staffing without real knowledge of all the elements involved.

Bluedriver
06-06-2018, 11:51 AM
I find delightful how my colleagues will make statements about staffing without real knowledge of all the elements involved.

There's a lot we do know cowboy.

django
06-06-2018, 05:45 PM
Blue unless your corner office guy ....the facts and info we have as of now lead only to speculation

hyperboy
06-06-2018, 05:55 PM
Blue unless your corner office guy ....the facts and info we have as of now lead only to speculation


Bluedriver knows everything. Love when he starts stating facts.....

Bluedriver
06-06-2018, 06:21 PM
Blue unless your corner office guy ....the facts and info we have as of now lead only to speculation

Speak for yourself, not me.

PasserOGas
06-07-2018, 04:22 AM
Bluedriver knows everything. Love when he starts stating facts.....

Hyper, you should be studying the above since it is most likely correct. Then you will be in a better position to put a positive spin on this crap sandwich when the final language is released.

django
06-07-2018, 04:54 AM
Excuse my grammatical faux pas. As to my colleagues comments, donít confuse fact with conclusions. While facts are just that,data points, no valid conclusions as to staffing can be inferred. No doubt both are based of fact but one or both could be invalid.

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 05:33 AM
Wow, we are upgrading enough Airbus captains to staff *TWO* whole new airframes in the next five months!!!

Hold onto your butts gentleman the seniority rollercoaster just left the station!

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 05:57 AM
Excuse my grammatical faux pas. As to my colleagues comments, donít confuse fact with conclusions. While facts are just that,data points, no valid conclusions as to staffing can be inferred. No doubt both are based of fact but one or both could be invalid.

Django, I believe you've used the words "speculation" and "conclusions".

You could read every word of the new full-language TA, put it all into an awesome spreadsheet and it would still tell you bubkes. You simply will not know how guys will change their bidding strategy, RSA take-rate, RSA offer-rate, PTO sell-back vs sick call (now that it isn't 150%) without drawing intelligent conclusions or speculating.

Even with full language, you will not KNOW how the company will use the language or change how it runs it's business to mitigate the need for more pilots, such as use forced Vaca buy-back, offer more RSAs, falsify OE hour estimates during peak months to withhold additional OE hours from the FO bid, offer more premium pay trips during peak months via the new premium Flica window, etc. None of this will be KNOWN for fact with the full language. To make ANY statement about the staffing repercussions is speculation and conclusions, period.

Many on this site have made reference to how the new contract will require additional staffing. I never once noticed you accuse them of speculating or drawing conclusions, most likely because it's what you WANT to hear. I've noticed a pattern on here where I get by-far the most pushback when I say things that dudes don't WANT to hear, even though they are often plainly obvious for those willing to see it and essentially always proven true after the fact.

This isn't rocket surgery. We know many of the new paradigms and we can either say nothing whatsoever about staffing or we can make some educated estimates of how pilots and the company will use the new rules for their own respective advantage.

No malice intended, just more of the world according to BD.

django
06-07-2018, 07:23 AM
Django, I believe you've used the words "speculation" and "conclusions".

You could read every word of the new full-language TA, put it all into an awesome spreadsheet and it would still tell you bubkes. You simply will not know how guys will change their bidding strategy, RSA take-rate, RSA offer-rate, PTO sell-back vs sick call (now that it isn't 150%) without drawing intelligent conclusions or speculating.

Even with full language, you will not KNOW how the company will use the language or change how it runs it's business to mitigate the need for more pilots, such as use forced Vaca buy-back, offer more RSAs, falsify OE hour estimates during peak months to withhold additional OE hours from the FO bid, offer more premium pay trips during peak months via the new premium Flica window, etc. None of this will be KNOWN for fact with the full language. To make ANY statement about the staffing repercussions is speculation and conclusions, period.

Many on this site have made reference to how the new contract will require additional staffing. I never once noticed you accuse them of speculating or drawing conclusions, most likely because it's what you WANT to hear. I've noticed a pattern on here where I get by-far the most pushback when I say things that dudes don't WANT to hear, even though they are often plainly obvious for those willing to see it and essentially always proven true after the fact.

This isn't rocket surgery. We know many of the new paradigms and we can either say nothing whatsoever about staffing or we can make some educated estimates of how pilots and the company will use the new rules for their own respective advantage.

No malice intended, just more of the world according to BD.

I care little if I find myself in agreement with posters views.
Just trying to see how folks reach their conclusions with such certainty. In looking at your well thought post I find myself agreeing with you.
I was speaking to the Type A over certainty with which some others speculate. Yes a contradiction in terms ...

And no accusation was intended, just a mere observation of our need for certainty.

I am NOT Q

hyperboy
06-07-2018, 07:35 AM
Hyper, you should be studying the above since it is most likely correct. Then you will be in a better position to put a positive spin on this crap sandwich when the final language is released.

Or you could go to your union meeting follow the MEC direction, read the TA, go to a roadshow, then make your own decision?

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 07:46 AM
I care little if I find myself in agreement with posters views.
Just trying to see how folks reach their conclusions with such certainty. In looking at your well thought post I find myself agreeing with you.
I was speaking to the Type A over certainty with which some others speculate. Yes a contradiction in terms ...

And no accusation was intended, just a mere observation of our need for certainty.

I am NOT Q

Roger all!

Besides, we're pilots, we know EVERYTHING!

hyperboy
06-07-2018, 08:33 AM
Django, I believe you've used the words "speculation" and "conclusions".

You could read every word of the new full-language TA, put it all into an awesome spreadsheet and it would still tell you bubkes. You simply will not know how guys will change their bidding strategy, RSA take-rate, RSA offer-rate, PTO sell-back vs sick call (now that it isn't 150%) without drawing intelligent conclusions or speculating.

Even with full language, you will not KNOW how the company will use the language or change how it runs it's business to mitigate the need for more pilots, such as use forced Vaca buy-back, offer more RSAs, falsify OE hour estimates during peak months to withhold additional OE hours from the FO bid, offer more premium pay trips during peak months via the new premium Flica window, etc. None of this will be KNOWN for fact with the full language. To make ANY statement about the staffing repercussions is speculation and conclusions, period.

Many on this site have made reference to how the new contract will require additional staffing. I never once noticed you accuse them of speculating or drawing conclusions, most likely because it's what you WANT to hear. I've noticed a pattern on here where I get by-far the most pushback when I say things that dudes don't WANT to hear, even though they are often plainly obvious for those willing to see it and essentially always proven true after the fact.

This isn't rocket surgery. We know many of the new paradigms and we can either say nothing whatsoever about staffing or we can make some educated estimates of how pilots and the company will use the new rules for their own respective advantage.

No malice intended, just more of the world according to BD.

We are so done with the world according to BD.......


Or you could go to your union meeting follow the MEC direction, read the TA, go to a roadshow, then make your own decision?

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 08:43 AM
We are so done with the world according to BD.......


Or you could go to your union meeting follow the MEC direction, read the TA, go to a roadshow, then make your own decision?

You're such a toilet brush.

Who says I'm not doing EXACTLY that?

Go play in traffic.

hyperboy
06-07-2018, 08:52 AM
You're such a toilet brush.

Who says I'm not doing EXACTLY that?

Go play in traffic.

Missed you at the meeting last night. So much to say on here? Thought you would go where it counts and they have to listen to BD?

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 09:37 AM
Missed you at the meeting last night. So much to say on here? Thought you would go where it counts and they have to listen to BD?

Now's your chance, what incredibly amazing and top secret info that can't be obtained in any other way did you learn?

AFTER you thoroughly answer the first question (you won't), I wouldn't wiz on your flame-engulfed body after flying a 7-hour trans-con with 4 broken lavs, so I sure as heck wouldn't intentionally be in the same zip code as your wanna-be junior chief pilot rump. Identifying myself to you isn't courageous, it's insanely stupid considering your clear pro-company bias.

Go play in traffic.

PasserOGas
06-07-2018, 09:59 AM
Or you could go to your union meeting follow the MEC direction, read the TA, go to a roadshow, then make your own decision?

I know narrowbody domestic codesharing is allowed. = NO

(Did you notice SWA didn't codeshare to HI? That is what real scope looks like.)

I know the rates are an insult. = NO

(SWA usually BEATS the legacies in 737 pay. Right now is an anomaly.)

I know what I am hearing from the NC during the conference call told me that they were tired and beaten and basically caved. = NO

All signs point to our TA being a complete dud.

BeatNavy
06-07-2018, 10:00 AM
I wouldn't wiz on your flame-engulfed body after flying a 7-hour trans-con with 4 broken lavs, so I sure as heck wouldn't intentionally be in the same zip code as your wanna-be junior chief pilot rump. Identifying myself to you isn't courageous, it's insanely stupid considering your clear pro-company bias.

Go play in traffic.

What if he is a pro-union, pro-pilot, and pro-company guy? They aren't always mutually exclusive.

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 10:11 AM
What if he is a pro-union, pro-pilot, and pro-company guy? They aren't always mutually exclusive.

Reasonable people would agree with you in many circumstances. During a "labor dispute" under the conditions we've experienced I would lean closer to "pick which side you're on until it's resolved" in general, and then with him specifically trying to get me fired, I have no tolerance for him.

In addition, I've asked him repeatedly to AT LEAST defend his pro-company biases. He flat refuses.

I welcome all voices, as we all should, as long as you can support your position with logic, reason and data when available.

That is NOT Hyper.

That's my position, you don't have to agree, but at least I will support my comments.

PasserOGas
06-07-2018, 10:14 AM
Reasonable people would agree with you in many circumstances. During a "labor dispute" under the conditions we've experienced I would lean closer to "pick which side you're on until it's resolved" in general, and then with him specifically trying to get me fired, I have no tolerance for him.

In addition, I've asked him repeatedly to AT LEAST defend his pro-company biases. He flat refuses.

I welcome all voices, as we all should, as long as you can support your position with logic, reason and data when available.

That is NOT Hyper.

That's my position, you don't have to agree, but at least I will support my comments.

But if you won't put your SSN on here for all to see you must be a coward, and all your points are invalid.

hyperboy
06-07-2018, 10:16 AM
But if you won't put your SSN on here for all to see you must be a coward, and all your points are invalid.

Finally you get it POG. :D

Bozo the pilot
06-07-2018, 11:06 AM
Now's your chance, what incredibly amazing and top secret info that can't be obtained in any other way did you learn?

AFTER you thoroughly answer the first question (you won't), I wouldn't wiz on your flame-engulfed body after flying a 7-hour trans-con with 4 broken lavs, so I sure as heck wouldn't intentionally be in the same zip code as your wanna-be junior chief pilot rump. Identifying myself to you isn't courageous, it's insanely stupid considering your clear pro-company bias.

Go play in traffic.

Play nice children:D

Bluedriver
06-07-2018, 11:27 AM
Play nice children:D

Can't we all just get along!

Bigbluebooty
06-07-2018, 03:21 PM
How does any of this address neal72ís concerns?

MGMTiswatchingU
06-07-2018, 04:05 PM
How does any of this address neal72ís concerns?

Most of it doesn't. And that's the sad part.