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View Full Version : FO Pay


Homeskool40
06-09-2018, 04:11 AM
What can a first year FO expect to make without bonuses? Talking gross, take home, per diem etc. Thanks


CptnSnoopDizzle
06-09-2018, 06:42 AM
I would strongly suggest looking elsewhere. Sounds like everybody is leaving as quickly as possible.

MolineCFI
06-09-2018, 07:33 AM
The regionals are in denial that they need to raise pay to get pilots. If Hulas doesn't want to pay he can part the planes.

Same with Skywest and the others. Shut them down until they pay enough to get pilots to go to work. Its called the "market".

These regionals want to pay for a house what they could have bought the house for in 2009. No, they don't get the house.


brokepilot2
06-09-2018, 10:00 AM
I would strongly suggest looking elsewhere. Sounds like everybody is leaving as quickly as possible.

^^^This.

Every person Iíve flown with recently is doing whatever they can to get out. The only FOís Iíve talked to that are planning on staying are those who are close to upgrade or are close to getting their 1000 121-hours so they can go to Envoy and be a DEC. There is no good reason to come to TSA anymore unless youíre a masochist and enjoy getting bent over by the company on the daily.

Knobcrk1
06-09-2018, 02:02 PM
Thereís a reason why 99% of new hires are helo guys. Literally they would have no one come to class if they didnít pay for helo transition.

NeverHome
06-10-2018, 03:13 AM
^^^This.

Every person Iíve flown with recently is doing whatever they can to get out. The only FOís Iíve talked to that are planning on staying are those who are close to upgrade or are close to getting their 1000 121-hours so they can go to Envoy and be a DEC. There is no good reason to come to TSA anymore unless youíre a masochist and enjoy getting bent over by the company on the daily.

Of course everyone is trying to get out. Itís always been that way. Regionals are not and have never been a final destination.

That said, I would suggest someone think long and hard before bailing for another regional. Make sure you understand and have your reasons well defined before you make the leap.

Along those same lines, before anyone picks a regional these days needs to make sure they are going somewhere that works for them. Several years ago you basically went to whoever called first (assuming more than one called, but was sometimes just one). Now we have the luxury of being picky, so be picky and smart.

ZeroTT
06-11-2018, 10:02 AM
Of course everyone is trying to get out. Itís always been that way. Regionals are not and have never been a final destination.

All regionals are awful, but some are more awful than others.

It has not always been the case that significant numbers leave one regional for another regional.

Celeste
06-12-2018, 09:52 AM
All regionals are awful, but some are more awful than others.

It has not always been the case that significant numbers leave one regional for another regional.

Because as recently as 2-3 years ago, you would take a paycut back down to $22k/year. Plus there was a slew of regionals with crap training pay or didn't pay for training hotels, then you get released to reserve making $24 per hour with no commuter hotels. I guarantee that step down to poverty wages for at least the first year was enough to keep most people from jumping ship even from the worst places.

Now places are offering $20k bonuses on day one or shortly after finishing training. Hourly pay is in the ballpark of $40/hour. With the bonuses being offered it isn't a pay cut to jump from company to company, and oftentimes, it is a raise. All while chasing quick upgrade, flow, shiny jets, [insert whatever carrot of the week].

Celeste
06-12-2018, 11:36 AM
What can a first year FO expect to make without bonuses? Talking gross, take home, per diem etc. Thanks

I was an FO during the old pay, no bonuses, so I can't speak for that.

75hours x $37 x 12mo = $33,300 - that's your min guarantee salary.


Virtually everyone is crediting at least 85 hours per month. So that is $3145 per month once you're out of training + at least $500-600 in per diem. ~$3700-3800 before bonuses. Your take-home will be at least 2/3 of that. (probably more, but it depends on your insurance plan, tax brackets, how much you're sending to the 401k etc.)

Homeskool40
06-13-2018, 02:31 AM
Thanks donít the info, I have turned down the offer from trans states. Having second thoughts on joining the industry period after hearing all the comments on many of the different airline forums.

Soxfan1
06-13-2018, 02:56 AM
Thanks donít the info, I have turned down the offer from trans states. Having second thoughts on joining the industry period after hearing all the comments on many of the different airline forums.

Use APC to help filter out the good choices from the bad for sure but comments on the Internet should only be a small factor in any decision about anything.

The simple fact remains, there has never been a better time, ever, to be joining this industry.

Irony disclaimer - I am telling you to avoid taking advice from random strangers on the internet, by giving you advice as a stranger, on the internet.

itsmytime
06-13-2018, 04:46 AM
Thanks donít the info, I have turned down the offer from trans states. Having second thoughts on joining the industry period after hearing all the comments on many of the different airline forums.

Wow! All that time and money spent on ratings, and a couple of anonymous internet clowns keep you out of the industry?

Homeskool40
06-13-2018, 11:27 AM
Wow! All that time and money spent on ratings, and a couple of anonymous internet clowns keep you out of the industry?

Havenít spent any time or money on ratings yet. RTP candidate looking at coming to the airlines. I have a good job outside the aviation industry with a good QOL which makes the decision much harder when I read how bad the QOL is in the entire regional industry. Sounds like no matter where you go you are used and abused for little pay and your family suffers as well.

NobodyLikesMe
06-13-2018, 05:07 PM
Havenít spent any time or money on ratings yet. RTP candidate looking at coming to the airlines. I have a good job outside the aviation industry with a good QOL which makes the decision much harder when I read how bad the QOL is in the entire regional industry. Sounds like no matter where you go you are used and abused for little pay and your family suffers as well.

I would tell you without hesitation that you are in your right mind. If you have a nice job with a good QOL and want to enjoy a family life, then what you seek is to have your cake AND eat it too. You can do that in your current predicament, but I can promise you that wherever you go in the 121 world you will lose the ability to have both the cake and the eating. One or more of those will be lost. Iíve seen so many guys over the years have family lives ruined by the airline industry. It happens to a lot of people. There are variables outside of cake and eating like proverbial eating utensils and the surface upon which you eat it. What Iím getting at is this, most of the variables that you can control in your life now will be lost if you surrender them to 121 scheduling regardless of the regional you elect to go to. At this point, you then will ultimately face the constant battles of trying to fly less and make more and spend more time at home. If you have no kids, your SO doesnít mind being alone for 4-6 days a week, AND you want a change of pace in your life, then Iíd say you should reconsider your decision. I donít have a wife and kids. It is probably the only reason Iíve always felt ok in this job. Iíve never missed important events etc. and donít really ever have plans.

minimwage4
06-13-2018, 06:34 PM
Havenít spent any time or money on ratings yet. RTP candidate looking at coming to the airlines. I have a good job outside the aviation industry with a good QOL which makes the decision much harder when I read how bad the QOL is in the entire regional industry. Sounds like no matter where you go you are used and abused for little pay and your family suffers as well.

The only people actually enjoying this industry are the 20 year pilots that bid reserve and never fly or the ones that get like 20 days off a month. In short the ones that fly as little and make a lot. That won't be you for a while. There's many I fly with that don't reccomend the job. It does have nice views though.

Celeste
06-13-2018, 08:54 PM
While I think you are seeing the worst of the industry here on APC, things are rough out here right now. Thankfully the pay is closer to where it should have been years ago. However, we are hitting the tip of iceberg on under-staffing hell. If i could have my current pay and bonuses, and the ability to drop the occasional trip and not worry about junior assignments like 2-3 years ago, QOL would be quite a bit better.

On one hand you could tough out a few rough years and then have an amazing career with a high earning potential. However there's no guarantee on how fast you'll move up to a major, and the first couple years there may not be the best being junior.

NeverHome
06-14-2018, 02:49 AM
Right now junior assignments have been through the roof. Scheduling has been absolutely horrible. And quite frankly, upper management needs to pull their heads out and do something drastic in favor of the pilot group. Otherwise we will continue to go down.

All that said, itís amazing how the market works. Go back to when the industry was fat on pilots. Sure getting juniored was rare. But overall the airlines sucked hard! Pay was crap, management was worse. This was true at every carrier.

Basically what what Iím saying is we overall have it pretty good right now. For those if us that remember being in a crappy place, right now ainít terrible.

Of course the market on pilots ainít fat. So management better play ball with the group.

FlyingKat
06-14-2018, 05:46 AM
Of course the market on pilots ainít fat. So management better play ball with the group.

Not according to the esteemed Chairman of the company negotiating committee. They have all the time in the world.

But hey, 300% is here. Wonder what is coming next.

brokepilot2
06-14-2018, 08:46 AM
Not according to the esteemed Chairman of the company negotiating committee. They have all the time in the world.

But hey, 300% is here. Wonder what is coming next.

Loss of UA flying due to inability to staff it.

NobodyLikesMe
06-14-2018, 01:30 PM
But hey, 300% is here. Wonder what is coming next.

Mitsubishi Regional Jets

C37AFE
06-14-2018, 02:25 PM
Mitsubishi Regional Jets. Oh man i was feeling down. Thanks for the laugh. I should go by some lottery tickets. I think my odds are better than those showing up

NobodyLikesMe
06-14-2018, 06:53 PM
. Oh man i was feeling down. Thanks for the laugh. I should go by some lottery tickets. I think my odds are better than those showing up

:D

Theyre comin...I just know it...

https://i.imgflip.com/2c9aic.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/2c9aic)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)

FlyingKat
06-14-2018, 08:26 PM
Mitsubishi Regional Jets

Oh yeah...I forgot....the reason why Bedford is going to buy us...the mighty MRJ :cool:

Islanderpilot
07-05-2018, 02:42 PM
Are the bonuses a pretext to a contract to stay? I heard it can be prorated.

FlyingKat
07-07-2018, 10:32 AM
Are the bonuses a pretext to a contract to stay? I heard it can be prorated.


Bonuses? We don't need no stinking bonuses at TSA......

David77
01-27-2019, 11:41 PM
Sorry to bump an old thread but this did seem the best place to put it..

Any rough ballpark figure as to what a Y1 FO will take in premium flying pay & Per Diems per month?

Thanks in advance!

Celeste
01-28-2019, 11:45 PM
Sorry to bump an old thread but this did seem the best place to put it..

Any rough ballpark figure as to what a Y1 FO will take in premium flying pay & Per Diems per month?

Thanks in advance!

On reserve at the moment it is easy to credit 85-90 hours @ ~$37/hr (not sure 1rst year pay) and 250+ hours @ 1.90 tax free. $3145 + $475 = $3620/ month on reserve.


It's rare for a lineholder to end up crediting less than 85 hours these days... even trying to work the minimum you will probably get around 85 hours. Lineholders can easily credit 100+ hours if you are trying to make money. I fly with guys crediting 115-120+. Plus 275-300 hours of per diem. $3700 + $520 = $4220/month.

rabbo
01-29-2019, 03:30 AM
how many days off did you have? how many days could someone have off if focused that way aside from making extra cash?

justumn30
02-06-2019, 05:09 PM
Talked with the recruiters this week to confirm on some of the new bonus money they are throwing around for new hires. The first year compensation for FO's seem to be much more appealing. 15k after completion of IOE, 10k for type rating, and an additional 15K after 1 year of time. Have an old Army buddy flying as an FO and he picked up 100 hours for the first month of the year. So, hours seem to be fairly good as well. First year compensation is being advertised as 95K. Salute!

http://www.transstates.net/Documents/2019%20First%20Officer%20Pay%20and%20Bonus%20Infor mation.pdf

pnwchief22
02-11-2019, 05:32 PM
Received the latest TSA recruiting offer in todayís mail...$60,000 FO bonus. Surprised me that it wasnít in my daily blast from ALPA

NeverHome
02-18-2019, 06:38 AM
how many days off did you have? how many days could someone have off if focused that way aside from making extra cash?

Right now plan min days off. 11 for Reserve, 12 for line holders. 12 bids a year and you have your answer.

Reserve you get 6 golden days off- golden meaning that the scheduling dept cannot take away or move. The rest can be moved and manipulated on a whim.

Line holders have no golden days. It doesnít matter that you are a line holder. If they need someone to cover a flight they will junior you. There really isnít a limit to the junioring. Reason is the contractual language isnít great. Amazing how they will redefine things to get what they want.

Flyboy68
03-08-2019, 09:49 AM
Of course everyone is trying to get out. Itís always been that way. Regionals are not and have never been a final destination.

That said, I would suggest someone think long and hard before bailing for another regional. Make sure you understand and have your reasons well defined before you make the leap.

Along those same lines, before anyone picks a regional these days needs to make sure they are going somewhere that works for them. Several years ago you basically went to whoever called first (assuming more than one called, but was sometimes just one). Now we have the luxury of being picky, so be picky and smart.It's Bizarro World.

http://kararuns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills-zoolander.gif

FlyingKat
03-16-2019, 08:29 PM
how many days off did you have? how many days could someone have off if focused that way aside from making extra cash?

Maybe 14 or 15 if you could find high credit trips and have the seniority to hold min credit for the month. Realistically though its 12 or 13 because most of our 4 day trips block less than 20 hours right now. Plus you won't get that for a while with all the Junior manning going on right now. Best you will get is 12.

ConOrion
03-28-2019, 07:47 AM
Forgive the ignorance.. Contractually they can only junior you so many times yes? And you're contractually supposed to have the 11 or 12 days off yes?

What happens if you say no? You've done your 4 day trip (Contractually they can make you do NO more than 4(?) Nights?) Are they going to fire you when they're so short and theyre breaking the rules?

FlyingKat
03-28-2019, 07:54 AM
Forgive the ignorance.. Contractually they can only junior you so many times yes? And you're contractually supposed to have the 11 or 12 days off yes?

What happens if you say no? You've done your 4 day trip (Contractually they can make you do NO more than 4(?) Nights?) Are they going to fire you when they're so short and theyre breaking the rules?

Yes there are limitations and you can refuse illegal assignments. However given certain conditions they can and do Junior you below 12 days off.

If you refuse a legal assignment then you can be disciplined for it.

C37AFE
03-28-2019, 03:05 PM
Forgive the ignorance.. Contractually they can only junior you so many times yes? And you're contractually supposed to have the 11 or 12 days off yes?

What happens if you say no? You've done your 4 day trip (Contractually they can make you do NO more than 4(?) Nights?) Are they going to fire you when they're so short and theyre breaking the rules?

They send you home to bed then show right back up next day

ConOrion
03-29-2019, 11:36 AM
They send you home to bed then show right back up next day

Can't you just.. not answer the phone?

NeverHome
03-29-2019, 02:47 PM
Can't you just.. not answer the phone?

True. Donít answer and your good. Except when the acars rolls in. Nothing you can do there. A CP intercepts you, probably on the hook again (tho havent heard of this happening). Call to get TO data because a deferred acars, Got YA!

FlyingKat
03-29-2019, 06:17 PM
Can't you just.. not answer the phone?

That only works when you are not required to answer the phone. They have several ways to get you notified of a change before you duty off.