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View Full Version : Flow and basing question


Lillys Dad
06-17-2018, 07:21 PM
Hi all. I'm getting ready to apply to some airlines and was just wondering about how long I could reasonably expect as a new hire to get to AA. I was also wondering about where the Jr bases are and how long one could expect to get ORD. I'm guessing NYC is going to be the Jr spot, but I would like to be cautiously optimistic that it might not be. Thanks for the help, and Cheers.


Cyio
06-18-2018, 04:16 AM
Hi all. I'm getting ready to apply to some airlines and was just wondering about how long I could reasonably expect as a new hire to get to AA. I was also wondering about where the Jr bases are and how long one could expect to get ORD. I'm guessing NYC is going to be the Jr spot, but I would like to be cautiously optimistic that it might not be. Thanks for the help, and Cheers.

Several things go into answering your question.

1. Right now, straight off the street hires for FO's has slowed, although some say it will pick back up here soon. If you are able to come in as a Captain, well that is a different story.

2. Junior base on the 145 is LGA, however people are by and large able to get out of there should they choose almost right out of training, or shortly there after. ORD is junior 175 base and the CRJ fleet is only in ORD.

3. Getting to AA is a pretty contentious question around here. The company is saying 6 years from date of hire. ALPA, I believe has that number up to 8 years now. It is all a matter of what math you use to reach that number. I will say that I was hired a couple of years ago and my date is right on track, in fact is beating the company number.

SoFloFlyer
06-18-2018, 10:52 PM
Several things go into answering your question.

1. Right now, straight off the street hires for FO's has slowed, although some say it will pick back up here soon. If you are able to come in as a Captain, well that is a different story.

2. Junior base on the 145 is LGA, however people are by and large able to get out of there should they choose almost right out of training, or shortly there after. ORD is junior 175 base and the CRJ fleet is only in ORD.

3. Getting to AA is a pretty contentious question around here. The company is saying 6 years from date of hire. ALPA, I believe has that number up to 8 years now. It is all a matter of what math you use to reach that number. I will say that I was hired a couple of years ago and my date is right on track, in fact is beating the company number.

Just to add to the OP, would it be worth sticking around for the flow if A) no one else calls and B) AA is your ultimate goal? I know VERY few people at OTS FOs that are strictly just civies. Any thoughts to this?


402FreightDog
06-19-2018, 05:07 AM
Just to add to the OP, would it be worth sticking around for the flow if A) no one else calls and B) AA is your ultimate goal? I know VERY few people at OTS FOs that are strictly just civies. Any thoughts to this?
If no one else calls you, then you donít really have any other choices, do you?

Cyio
06-19-2018, 05:14 AM
If no one else calls you, then you donít really have any other choices, do you?

Yeah I hear this a lot out on the line and from jumpseat riders. Is the flow perfect, no, but for a lot of the people flowing they havenít heard from anyone else yet so it is great in their eyes. Overall I find that pilots from other airlines seem to wish they had something similar.

Believe it or not but it still appears the mainline carriers are not just calling through their resume list as of yet.

3EngineTaxi
06-19-2018, 05:47 AM
Believe it or not but it still appears the mainline carriers are not just calling through their resume list as of yet.
This is true. There is no pilot shortage at the majors, nor will there ever likely be a shortage at the majors.

Every year, thousands more pilots become qualified: military, regionals, low cost carriers, cargo, Part 135, Part 91.

It is an optimistic myth that the majors will be desperate for pilots, and that every regional pilot will easily get a job at his choice of a major. In fact, the majors will remain extremely competitive and will maintain the luxury of being extremely selective in the pilots they hire.

3EngineTaxi
06-19-2018, 05:49 AM
I do recommend that everyone regularly update his applications, however. While it's not easy to get hired at a major, it's an automatic NO unless you apply.

blindfayth
06-19-2018, 06:31 PM
To add to this, if i'm a cadet, how likely could I get ORD in training?

I'm in my mid 30s, if that matters as a tie-breaker.

EmbaeDriver
06-19-2018, 06:50 PM
To add to this, if i'm a cadet, how likely could I get ORD in training?

I'm in my mid 30s, if that matters as a tie-breaker.

If you donít get it at first youíll eventually end there

blindfayth
06-19-2018, 07:10 PM
If you don’t get it at first you’ll eventually end there

How likely could I get E175 ORD? Also, what's the upgrade time like on the E175?

pitchattitude
06-19-2018, 08:12 PM
How likely could I get E175 ORD? Also, what's the upgrade time like on the E175?

The most likely way to get the 175 is as a cadet. The DECs will end up as 145s.

Upgrade time is not really a function of which aircraft you fly, per se. Upgrade is based on how quickly you can get to 950 hours. Whatever AIRCRAFT and BASE is the shortest reserve time and most productive lines will get you the time soonest. That is most likely the 145 in LGA.

If you want to fly the 175, getting your time soon means you wonít have the seniority when you get the time to hold the 175. You will likely end up upgrading onto the 145.

blindfayth
06-19-2018, 08:26 PM
The most likely way to get the 175 is as a cadet. The DECs will end up as 145s.

Upgrade time is not really a function of which aircraft you fly, per se. Upgrade is based on how quickly you can get to 950 hours. Whatever AIRCRAFT and BASE is the shortest reserve time and most productive lines will get you the time soonest. That is most likely the 145 in LGA.

If you want to fly the 175, getting your time soon means you wonít have the seniority when you get the time to hold the 175. You will likely end up upgrading onto the 145.

I see. I am a cadet, but was wondering if I could avoid the LGA commute all together. Looks like that's not really possible.

Thanks.

Whiskey4
06-20-2018, 02:14 AM
I see. I am a cadet, but was wondering if I could avoid the LGA commute all together. Looks like that's not really possible.

Thanks.

Plenty of cadets avoid NY. Most seem to select the E175 ORD positions on day one (assuming they are offered, which they usually are...more E75 deliveries starting in Q4 2018 will also help). For example, the last class was 10 E75 ORD and 17 145 LGA.

Upgrade can be a little tougher, but if you drag your feet a bit accumulating flight time you may avoid NY. You may have to spend some time in the 145, but I would sweat that. Thereís nothing super-special about UWEs (Under-Wing Engines)...and you donít make more money for flying it.

E175 Driver
06-20-2018, 01:50 PM
Plenty of cadets avoid NY. Most seem to select the E175 ORD positions on day one (assuming they are offered, which they usually are...more E75 deliveries starting in Q4 2018 will also help). For example, the last class was 10 E75 ORD and 17 145 LGA.

Upgrade can be a little tougher, but if you drag your feet a bit accumulating flight time you may avoid NY. You may have to spend some time in the 145, but I would sweat that. There’s nothing super-special about UWEs (Under-Wing Engines)...and you don’t make more money for flying it.


I can tell you is night and day different the Junk jet from the E175.

I upgraded on the junk jet and is garbage. Cant wait to get the E175!

Jamesthunder
06-20-2018, 03:06 PM
[/U][/B]

I can tell you is night and day different the Junk jet from the E175.

I upgraded on the junk jet and is garbage. Cant wait to get the E175!

Don't talk to me or my son ever again.

Whiskey4
06-20-2018, 06:12 PM
[/U][/B]

I can tell you is night and day different the Junk jet from the E175.

I upgraded on the junk jet and is garbage. Cant wait to get the E175!

Really? I actually enjoyed flying the 145 more than I do the 175.

The 175 is more comfortable, has a real coffee pot, and a forward lav.

I like both, but for very different reasons.

bigtime209
06-20-2018, 07:26 PM
Really? I actually enjoyed flying the 145 more than I do the 175.

The 175 is more comfortable, has a real coffee pot, and a forward lav.

I like both, but for very different reasons.

Mmmm yes...with coffee that's brewed from water that's put on the plane with a garden hose from the ramp. Yummy.

NoValueAviator
06-20-2018, 08:25 PM
NY does suck, anyone who tells you differently is lying or had some advantage like living in or near base or arriving for rsv senior enough to avoid getting rekt that you wonít have if youíre still trying to make up your mind about coming to work at this dumpster fire of a company. For my part, Iíve already paid close to 20% of what Iíll make this month (as of the 20th) after taxes just going back and forth between JFK and LGA out of pocket, usually at night when the cheaper options are closed or dangerous, and I know the cheapest ways to do it. Why go between airports? You donít have a choice, itís a co-domicile as scheduling will laughingly remind you as they book your promised commuter hotel on the opposite side of the city, or call you out to sit standby at the other airport, and pilots are responsible for their own transportation, no matter what the contract says about non-stop van rides to your hotel.

And before someone points out that you can select which airport the commuter hotel is at, news flash: scheduling doesnít care, they put you up wherever itís cheapest for them, no matter what you put in your RF 200. Malicious compliance is the name of the game.

I highly recommend staying away from this place if you have any kind of expectations at all and you canít confidently walk into class knowing you wonít get the crappy plane.

FullThrust
06-20-2018, 08:39 PM
NY does suck, anyone who tells you differently is lying or had some advantage like living in or near base or arriving for rsv senior enough to avoid getting rekt that you wonít have if youíre still trying to make up your mind about coming to work at this dumpster fire of a company. For my part, Iíve already paid close to 20% of what Iíll make this month (as of the 20th) after taxes just going back and forth between JFK and LGA out of pocket, usually at night when the cheaper options are closed or dangerous, and I know the cheapest ways to do it. Why go between airports? You donít have a choice, itís a co-domicile as scheduling will laughingly remind you as they book your promised commuter hotel on the opposite side of the city, or call you out to sit standby at the other airport, and pilots are responsible for their own transportation, no matter what the contract says about non-stop van rides to your hotel.

And before someone points out that you can select which airport the commuter hotel is at, news flash: scheduling doesnít care, they put you up wherever itís cheapest for them, no matter what you put in your RF 200. Malicious compliance is the name of the game.

I highly recommend staying away from this place if you have any kind of expectations at all and you canít confidently walk into class knowing you wonít get the crappy plane.

Lots of other regionals are hiring if you are that miserable

NoValueAviator
06-20-2018, 08:51 PM
Already done the CBA on leaving, but thatís a different consideration than coming here in the first place, which is a mistake Iíd never make again.

flysooner9
06-21-2018, 04:44 AM
Already done the CBA on leaving, but thatís a different consideration than coming here in the first place, which is a mistake Iíd never make again.

Sounds like you didnít properly do your research.

pitchattitude
06-21-2018, 06:52 AM
Sounds like you didnít properly do your research.
All the research in the world doesnít help when the truth changes.

Past performance doesnít necessarily predict future performance. If it did, a lot of things in this world would be different. Not just Envoy.

havick206
06-21-2018, 07:21 AM
All the research in the world doesnít help when the truth changes.

Past performance doesnít necessarily predict future performance. If it did, a lot of things in this world would be different. Not just Envoy.

Iím curious, what truth changed? The way things are currently, are the way they way they have always been.

flysooner9
06-21-2018, 10:56 AM
All the research in the world doesnít help when the truth changes.

Past performance doesnít necessarily predict future performance. If it did, a lot of things in this world would be different. Not just Envoy.

Pretty sure Envoy is better to be at today then it was 4 years ago.

pitchattitude
06-21-2018, 12:04 PM
Iím curious, what truth changed? The way things are currently, are the way they way they have always been.

I dare say you have not researched anything. Four years ago Envoy was not a company. American Eagle was. LGA and MIA were Eagle bases. There was a different contact with more pilots. Two years ago LGA and MIA were not bases. LGA was just announced. MIA wasnít even a thought. There were no bonuses. There were no DECs.

Tell me again how the truth doesnít change and things are how they always were.

pitchattitude
06-21-2018, 12:21 PM
Pretty sure Envoy is better to be at today then it was 4 years ago.
I agree it is better than it was four years ago. But is it better than before LGA was opened up again?

havick206
06-21-2018, 12:27 PM
I agree it is better than it was four years ago. But is it better than before LGA was opened up again?

How long have you been with Envoy?

pitchattitude
06-21-2018, 01:27 PM
How long have you been with Envoy?
Long enough.

havick206
06-21-2018, 02:01 PM
Long enough.

Pre base closures or post them opening again?

SilentLurker
06-21-2018, 05:43 PM
Pre base closures or post them opening again?



Because the all knowing gods lived Pre-bankruptcy/base closures and the feeble minded post base closures ?

Curious why the time frame demarcation is of importance to his/her credibility or rationality.

pitchattitude
06-21-2018, 07:49 PM
Because the all knowing gods lived Pre-bankruptcy/base closures and the feeble minded post base closures ?

Curious why the time frame demarcation is of importance to his/her credibility or rationality.

And itís not. Which was my entire point. Most of us, especially when this is not our first job, do a lot of research before making a major life decision. And the reality is things do change. Drastically sometimes. So what you thought you were getting into isnít necessarily what you end up with.

Bigpimppilot
06-22-2018, 10:03 AM
Didnít eagle have 8 bases not that long ago. May get back up to that again. Then again it may go back down to 2 bases. Whose to say!

NoValueAviator
06-22-2018, 11:49 AM
When I signed up, not coming to Envoy because of speculation about re-opening NY would have been the same as coming to Envoy now because of speculation about re-opening LA.

havick206
06-22-2018, 12:00 PM
When I signed up, not coming to Envoy because of speculation about re-opening NY would have been the same as coming to Envoy now because of speculation about re-opening LA.

Exactly. Thereís nothing thatís actually really changed at all. Bases open and close, displacements happen at every airline.

FullThrust
06-22-2018, 02:42 PM
When I signed up, not coming to Envoy because of speculation about re-opening NY would have been the same as coming to Envoy now because of speculation about re-opening LA.

How long have you been here? CA or FO? Even guys here less than a year are able to hold non-LGA bases as CA (let alone FO)

havick206
06-22-2018, 03:16 PM
How long have you been here? CA or FO? Even guys here less than a year are able to hold non-LGA bases as CA (let alone FO)

Thatís what I was alluding to when I asked him how long theyíve been here for.

Even late 2016 hires can hold dfw as CA based off the last bid.