Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : S80 manning


Pilotman520
06-19-2018, 11:51 AM
Hey all.

Looking at the newest vacancy bid and manning plan do you think they will still be parking the 80? It says that there will still be 200 crews for only 20 aircraft.

Will they really carry that many extras and displace all of them at the last minute?


Frip
06-19-2018, 12:48 PM
Scuttlebutt says keeping ~30

Might as well be fat on the airplane people are qualified on and get some use out of them until they have training slots available vs. awarding bids and then just parking people until training slots open up. Particularly considering the demographics.

That's a guess... Like the good Sargeant, "I know nut-thinggg"

Sliceback
06-19-2018, 07:30 PM
10 pilots per a/c is bare minimum manning on n/bís.
Itís typically around 12 +/-.


m78fl370
06-19-2018, 08:33 PM
Exactly. This is 200 crews though. 400 pilots for 20 aircraft. Seems a little excessive.

ShyGuy
06-19-2018, 10:14 PM
AA only has 20 MD80s left?!

m78fl370
06-19-2018, 10:30 PM
Well there are 40 something flying right now, but we are scheduled to be somewhere down in the 20s by the end of the year last I heard.

Name User
06-20-2018, 04:59 AM
46 now IIRC, going to 26 after Sept was the latest plan. But they really don't have a replacement for it. I have to wonder if they are starting to sweat.

Keep in mind they are keeping the Dallas flying and my guess is will transfer some of the STL stuff to DFW as well, so block hours might not decrease proportionally with the parking of the planes.

Also looks like an overall increase of almost 300 pilots on property between now and may 2019. Plus retirements of what, 600 ish?

RhinoBallAuto
06-20-2018, 06:26 AM
So where are the S80 guys/gals anticipated to go when they park the last jets? Is DFW going to grow 320/737 flying, or are those bids going to get more senior? I imagine if they're not getting more airplanes, and S80 crews want to stay in Dallas, there are going to be around junior 200 CAs and 200 FOs displaced out of DFW... And junior folks waiting to get IN to DFW will end up waiting longer... Or am I missing something?

nAAtive
06-20-2018, 06:57 AM
So where are the S80 guys/gals anticipated to go when they park the last jets? Is DFW going to grow 320/737 flying, or are those bids going to get more senior? I imagine if they're not getting more airplanes, and S80 crews want to stay in Dallas, there are going to be around junior 200 CAs and 200 FOs displaced out of DFW... And junior folks waiting to get IN to DFW will end up waiting longer... Or am I missing something?
Airbus is growing in DFW in 2019 for sure. Not sure about the 737 but I think itís growing as well. S80 isnít too senior on the bottom half of the list.

DFW will always take a while to hold. Without S80 new hire slots itís gonna take even longer.

nimslow
06-20-2018, 07:02 AM
Airbus is growing in DFW in 2019 for sure. Not sure about the 737 but I think itís growing as well. S80 isnít too senior on the bottom half of the list.

DFW will always take a while to hold. Without S80 new hire slots itís gonna take even longer.

On the captain side, it looks like the bottom 100 S80 ca's wouldn't be able to hold a ca seat on any other equipment in DFW right now.

RhinoBallAuto
06-20-2018, 07:09 AM
On the captain side, it looks like the bottom 100 S80 ca's wouldn't be able to hold a ca seat on any other equipment in DFW right now.

Therein lies my point... Unless S80 folks have secret desires to commute elsewhere, the slow path to DFW is going to slow down even more, correct?

nAAtive
06-20-2018, 07:13 AM
Therein lies my point... Unless S80 folks have secret desires to commute elsewhere, the slow path to DFW is going to slow down even more, correct?

There are tons of guys in DFW that commute to other biases to hold left seat. Iím sure that trend continues.

nimslow
06-20-2018, 07:25 AM
There are tons of guys in DFW that commute to other biases to hold left seat. Iím sure that trend continues.

I'm one of those guys, most of the commuters I know are trying to get back to big D, myself included. A few will continue to commute to have better seniority. if your junior, it's a long road back to DFW.

nimslow
06-20-2018, 07:38 AM
Therein lies my point... Unless S80 folks have secret desires to commute elsewhere, the slow path to DFW is going to slow down even more, correct?

While it's not a good indicator of how long it's going to take to get back to DFW, if you look at the retirements, DFW has 548 ca's (346 group 4) and 223 fo's (148 group 4) that will retire over the next five years.

RhinoBallAuto
06-20-2018, 09:12 AM
Guess there's a chance to get the WBs before the NBs on my vacancy then...:rolleyes:

Name User
06-20-2018, 10:31 AM
On the captain side, it looks like the bottom 100 S80 ca's wouldn't be able to hold a ca seat on any other equipment in DFW right now.

About half the guys I've talked to about it will be going LGA or MIA 737 and the other half are probably displacing back to widebody FO.

It really depends on what they can hold come next year.

I for the life of me can not understand why DFW is such a senior base.

I'm expecting CLT to become uber senior over the next 5-10 years though. You really can't go wrong there.

Sliceback
06-20-2018, 11:01 AM
Why is DFW senior? Quality of the flying, low cost of living and decent housing near the airport.

spaaks
06-20-2018, 11:36 AM
Hey all.

Looking at the newest vacancy bid and manning plan do you think they will still be parking the 80? It says that there will still be 200 crews for only 20 aircraft.

Will they really carry that many extras and displace all of them at the last minute?

frontier 319's fell through so they gotta keep the lift they were going to retire a little longer

TransWorld
06-20-2018, 06:54 PM
Remember Sept 1 the STL domicile goes away. So, the exTWA Pilots still domiciled will likely commute to DFW (some to ORD). I was flying in the back of a Mad Dog from STL to DFW earlier this month (personal trip). Looked like about a third of the flight was Pilots, Flight Attendants, Retirees, etc.

Looks like fun times ahead. I wonder if they will have to add a daily flight just to handle all the commuting. *shakes head*

Name User
06-20-2018, 06:58 PM
Remember Sept 1 the STL domicile goes away. So, the exTWA Pilots still domiciled will likely commute to DFW (some to ORD). I was flying in the back of a Mad Dog from STL to DFW earlier this month (personal trip). Looked like about a third of the flight was Pilots, Flight Attendants, Retirees, etc.

Looks like fun times ahead. I wonder if they will have to add a daily flight just to handle all the commuting. *shakes head*

Only a handful of FOs came to DFW. Not sure about CAs, I think around 20?

A lot of people "dispersed". Lots of CLT and ORD, and NY CAs. I think all the FOs there could hold junior CA.

A lot of STL trips start and or end with a DH.

TransWorld
06-20-2018, 07:02 PM
The plane did have a crew swap, as did the last 2 trips I made in Oct. and Dec.

Sliceback
06-21-2018, 05:46 AM
Fleet reductions, or base reductions, can have some excess manning. There's a lag time between parking the jet and getting everyone out of that bid status.

Let's say a bunch of planes are leaving Sept 30. On September 29th they need full manning. On October 1st they're overmanned.

It's why being on a dying fleet, on reserve, can sometimes be a great deal. My neighbors asked, for years, "why aren't you doing that one trip a month thing anymore?" A great three month gig. If you're lucky you get it once a career?

Aviatrx
06-21-2018, 03:34 PM
frontier 319's fell through so they gotta keep the lift they were going to retire a little longer

Is that official news or hear say? The AB fleet manager was talking about 7-9 319ís from Frontier just last week, unofficially

spaaks
06-21-2018, 09:41 PM
Is that official news or hear say? The AB fleet manager was talking about 7-9 319ís from Frontier just last week, unofficially

hearsay from a friend who said it was either in a frontier or alpa memo

Cheddar
06-23-2018, 05:29 AM
News at the schoolhouse is that we are keeping all fleets longer than advertised. I asked a CKA about the fate of our fleet and he said the long term planning was only good to the next daily meeting.

Į\_(ツ)_/Į


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sliceback
06-23-2018, 12:49 PM
6/22 msg -

26 S80’s left after early September 2018.
Two retired late August 2019.
Remaining 24 retired early September 2019.

Currently have 43 S80’s.

FLPS30GRDWN
06-24-2018, 12:17 PM
6/22 msg -

26 S80ís left after early September 2018.
Two retired late August 2019.
Remaining 24 retired early September 2019.

Currently have 43 S80ís.



Donít see how this is going to work. I canít find the order schedule. How many new jets come in sept - dec ?

Packrat
06-24-2018, 01:48 PM
Heard in the training center the last new hires will be assigned the S80 in August and the last flights will be in 9/19. AA is not putting the expanded envelope training software in the sims so everyone using AA sims will have to go elsewhere...probably DAL.

Sliceback
06-24-2018, 02:35 PM
Donít see how this is going to work. I canít find the order schedule. How many new jets come in sept - dec ?

If you look at the annual deliveries and distribute them r envy in each month weíll get approx 39 n/bís between now the end of September 2019.

Retirements will be 26(43) S80ís plus approx 2 757ís.

FLPS30GRDWN
06-24-2018, 04:09 PM
If you look at the annual deliveries and distribute them r envy in each month weíll get approx 39 n/bís between now the end of September 2019.



Retirements will be 26(43) S80ís plus approx 2 757ís.



Thanks slice

That explains all the 73 plus up at the school house.

Name User
06-25-2018, 04:57 AM
Heard in the training center the last new hires will be assigned the S80 in August and the last flights will be in 9/19. AA is not putting the expanded envelope training software in the sims so everyone using AA sims will have to go elsewhere...probably DAL.

I don't think we will have to use DAL sims for that. That restriction is for 2020 IIRC. The other reason for stopping training this August is the last AA birds with GFMS like the sim will be retired this year and the FAA won't let anyone train in a sim that doesn't emulate an airplane we have on the line.

It's a shame they can't retrofit engines and APUs on the thing because it's such a solid platform. Que the "regional flying" haters from CnR when the 737 takes over the routes!

Cheddar
06-26-2018, 05:25 PM
Just finished a month at the schoolhouse... while not stating specific fleet rumors, the overall Ďrumorí was that many aircraft retirements may be delayed. Especially those that can supplement regional feed. Hiring Sim Pís and GS instructors for various positions that went to the urgent need for 737 training - seems like a lot of shoring up for some Ďdead fleetsí

Į\_(ツ)_/Į


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Al Czervik
06-26-2018, 05:36 PM
just finished a month at the schoolhouse... While not stating specific fleet rumors, the overall Ďrumorí was that many aircraft retirements may be delayed. Especially those that can supplement regional feed. Hiring sim pís and gs instructors for various positions that went to the urgent need for 737 training - seems like a lot of shoring up for some Ďdead fleetsí

Į\_(ツ)_/Į


sent from my iphone using tapatalk

whens the 350 coming??????

Name User
06-26-2018, 06:39 PM
Just finished a month at the schoolhouse... while not stating specific fleet rumors, the overall Ďrumorí was that many aircraft retirements may be delayed. Especially those that can supplement regional feed. Hiring Sim Pís and GS instructors for various positions that went to the urgent need for 737 training - seems like a lot of shoring up for some Ďdead fleetsí

Į\_(ツ)_/Į


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They can keep the S80's a little longer if they just run crews through a simulated stall in DAL's sims, at roughly 30 mins per crew it could be done cost effectively. They still couldn't train newbies on it but it could potentially give them about another year or two...although not sure about ADSB.

That being said the Dallas newsletter this week had specific tail numbers and a pretty firm looking schedule. It sounds/looks like they are replacing the 80's with the 737's by an earlier post.

They have chosen to really overstaff it come September. Maybe they are hedging their bets.

Cheddar
06-27-2018, 10:36 AM
whens the 350 coming??????


Man oh man... we got a good look at the sim when the DAL folks werenít using it. The 787 looks cheap compared to that. I never thought Iíd say that about a Boeing v Airbus


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

aggie02
08-21-2018, 06:59 AM
Looks like 9 MD80s are on their way to ROW this morning.

[url=https://ibb.co/bFuHhe]https://preview.ibb.co/b7BKvz/0417_D0_C2_97_DF_4_F0_E_A3_C9_060_D00657_BF9.png

Name User
08-21-2018, 07:41 AM
Looks like 9 MD80s are on their way to ROW this morning.

[url=https://ibb.co/bFuHhe]https://preview.ibb.co/b7BKvz/0417_D0_C2_97_DF_4_F0_E_A3_C9_060_D00657_BF9.png

I flew one of those yesterday on it's last day in revenue service. No MELs, no issues it was a good plane. Sad to see it go, it had a good APU and stayed nice and cool. It was surreal knowing it wouldn't carry any more passengers. Now I know how those guys on property in the early and mid 2000's felt as they parked perfectly good airplanes.

TapRack
08-22-2018, 05:21 AM
I was a paying pax in the back of one a few days ago. It actually had, at least from my Eco seat, nicer and more comfy seats than the two 738s I was on afterwards. I was surprised!

Skywest's CRJ200 looked like it had seen combat... :eek:

viper548
08-22-2018, 08:40 AM
I also prefer the MD-80 over the 737

Name User
08-22-2018, 01:21 PM
I was a paying pax in the back of one a few days ago. It actually had, at least from my Eco seat, nicer and more comfy seats than the two 738s I was on afterwards. I was surprised!

Skywest's CRJ200 looked like it had seen combat... :eek:

Yeah the seats are much thicker and more padded. Also a little wider. The exit rows especially are really nice. There is only one brace under the three wide row making it much nicer for your feet. And for those sitting towards the front, the airplane is very quiet. Plus, it hasn't been LCC'ized and the pitch is still normal, not this 29" stuff.

The design was so good Bombardier went with it with their new C series. It's a shame we couldn't retrofit the better turbofan motors on it for cheap. Delta got a steal on their C series, their management is really good and forward thinking.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1