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TangoIndiaMike1
06-20-2018, 09:27 AM
Hello all,

Does anyone have any information about the percent of pilots that croak or don’t croak that do night flight after they retire.

Thanks. I hear a lot of rumors but don’t know how true they are or what’s factual.


motorclutch
06-20-2018, 09:52 AM
“Everybody gotta die sometime”

Tom Berringer
“Platoon”

742Dash
06-20-2018, 10:09 AM
Hello all,

Does anyone have any information about the percent of pilots that croak or don’t croak that do night flight after they retire.

Thanks. I hear a lot of rumors but don’t know how true they are or what’s factual.

If the rumors were true then none of us would be able to get life insurance.


Fredturbo
06-20-2018, 10:11 AM
If the rumors were true then none of us would be able to get life insurance.

What rumors? Did you even rtfq?

Low Flyin
06-20-2018, 10:38 AM
People who die early probably had poor health and dietary habits to begin with, the backside of the clock flying probably didn’t help. Take care of yourself by eating and excersizing. Do doctors, police officers, nurses, 3rd shift guys all die early too?

JohnBurke
06-20-2018, 10:42 AM
The original poster's question is unclear. It appears that he's asking about flying freight after retirement, or after reaching 65 years old.

For 121 operations, the maximum age is 65.

rickair7777
06-20-2018, 10:44 AM
Circadian disruption is known to be bad for your health, and a career of that will most likely take years off of your life (if something else doesn't get you first).

But flying night freight after age 65 is probably not going to matter much, because your material condition at that point depends much more on what you did for the last 45 years, and less on what you're going to do tonight. Also presumably as a semi-retiree without kids at home, you have some lifestyle flexibility and can stay mostly on the back side on your days off. The back side in and of itself isn't that bad, it's the flopping back and forth that hurts.

WesternSkies
06-20-2018, 10:45 AM
Lassie wasn’t a freight dog.

I’d be impressed if that person lasts 6 months.

motorclutch
06-20-2018, 11:13 AM
Lassie was a puss!

BoilerUP
06-20-2018, 11:27 AM
Average life expectancy of a man in the United States is 76.1 years.

While circadian changes are physically hard on the body, I'd bet cargo airline pilots don't have any statistically significant shorter life expectancy than passenger airline pilots.

A reasonable diet, regular exercise and a commitment to recovering sleep deficit impacts all airline pilots, not just freight dogs...

TangoIndiaMike1
06-20-2018, 11:34 AM
The original poster's question is unclear. It appears that he's asking about flying freight after retirement, or after reaching 65 years old.



For 121 operations, the maximum age is 65.



I’ll fix it. But it’s meant to be freight till 65


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

742Dash
06-20-2018, 12:05 PM
What rumors? Did you even rtfq?

From the original post: "... I hear a lot of rumors...". Did you even rtfq?

tiredofjrm
06-20-2018, 12:21 PM
https://www.scribd.com/document/96025686/Retirement-Age-vs-Lifespan

742Dash
06-20-2018, 12:38 PM
https://www.scribd.com/document/96025686/Retirement-Age-vs-Lifespan

This one presents a very different picture, showing 17.61 remaining years of life for a 65 year old male.

https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

I make no claims to understanding actuarial science, but something seems to be wrong somewhere.

surfnski
06-20-2018, 06:46 PM
You guys should listen to the Joe Rogan podcast with the sleep expert Dr. Matt Walker, I believe. It’s not gospel, but it was pretty eye-opening and entertaining.

SonicFlyer
06-20-2018, 07:13 PM
Do doctors, police officers, nurses, 3rd shift guys all die early too?The more senior they get the less likely they are to be on the 3rd shift... unlike freight dogs who are mostly all on 3rd shift.

Stimpy the Kat
06-22-2018, 08:38 AM
Simply put:

> You fly a complex machine designed to operate within many parameters and among sets of limitations all of which directly impact and relate to each other. Operate the machine as designed and all is well. Operate outside design parameters and sooner, rather than later, you will wind up in a world of hurt.

I think we all understand that.


> Your body is a complex machine. Night Freight/Constant Circadian Disruption is outside of it's design limits. Sooner, rather than later, you will wind up in a world of hurt.


Simple Common Sense.


STK

Stimpy the Kat
06-22-2018, 08:47 AM
Simply put:

> You fly a complex machine designed to operate within many parameters and among sets of limitations all of which directly impact and relate to each other. Operate the machine as designed and all is well. Operate outside design parameters and sooner, rather than later, you will wind up in a world of hurt.

I think we all understand that.


> Your body is a complex machine. Night Freight/Constant Circadian Disruption is outside of it's design limits. Sooner, rather than later you will wind up in a world of hurt.


Simple Common Sense.


STK

coryk
06-22-2018, 09:23 AM
The more senior they get the less likely they are to be on the 3rd shift... unlike freight dogs who are mostly all on 3rd shift.

Negative. Half of FDX flying is daytime. You can choose to stay senior and fly days within a couple of years and never fly a night hub turn again, if you so choose. And still make WB pay.

Can’t say that for about boys over at DL/UA flying WB int’l. Talk about circandian distruption... 3-4 Atlantic/pacific crossings a month? No bueno.

coryk
06-22-2018, 09:25 AM
Simply put:

> You fly a complex machine designed to operate within many parameters and among sets of limitations all of which directly impact and relate to each other. Operate the machine as designed and all is well. Operate outside design parameters and sooner, rather than later, you will wind up in a world of hurt.

I think we all understand that.


> Your body is a complex machine. Night Freight/Constant Circadian Disruption is outside of it's design limits. Sooner, rather than later you will wind up in a world of hurt.


Simple Common Sense.


STK

It’s not just night fright. This job is unhealthy regardless of what and where you fly. Pax airline guys are flying redyes, redye turns, Atlantic and Pacific crossings several times a month.

Eat well, excerise reguarly, and be proactive with your sleep.

sherpster
06-22-2018, 10:12 AM
"Half of FDX flying is daytime"

Is that true? Seems kinda high.

All I know is at my pax airline it seems like virtually no one wants the red eyes. Like NO ONE. I have been trading into them because they are super easy 1 leggers with really only the return leg being a true red eye. The leg out to the west gets in you in time to go drinking. Anyways, even with my ho hum attitude about red eyes, I am very aware of the affect if has on my body. The affect FOR ME, has gotton worse as I have gotten older. Similiar to going out all night drinking. In my 20's, not a problem, in my late 40's? I can do it but I pay for it the next day.

I have to believe back side of the clock flying reduces life span in ways that are hard to measure.

But as Motor said "Gotta die from something"

coryk
06-22-2018, 10:44 AM
"Half of FDX flying is daytime"

Is that true? Seems kinda high.

All I know is at my pax airline it seems like virtually no one wants the red eyes. Like NO ONE. I have been trading into them because they are super easy 1 leggers with really only the return leg being a true red eye. The leg out to the west gets in you in time to go drinking. Anyways, even with my ho hum attitude about red eyes, I am very aware of the affect if has on my body. The affect FOR ME, has gotton worse as I have gotten older. Similiar to going out all night drinking. In my 20's, not a problem, in my late 40's? I can do it but I pay for it the next day.

I have to believe back side of the clock flying reduces life span in ways that are hard to measure.

But as Motor said "Gotta die from something"

Nobody wants red eyes? Lies! What about all your senior guys who want to fly 767s and A330s to London and Paris?

Half of our flying is day... true? Very true.

We have pilots here that haven’t flown at night in a decade. There are some really heinous night time trips, and some daytime trips that almost feel criminal they are so easy. Throw in some paid airline DH’s on either end, this is a good gig.

Low Flyin
06-22-2018, 11:33 AM
There are few trips at FDX that are true all nighters. We get a 2-4hr break in the hub, which I choose to sleep - the pax side do 4-5hrs straight flying. Also we do about 1/3 the amount of flying as pax carriers, which equates to less sitting in the flight deck, soaking up the UV rays, and eating crew meals.

TangoIndiaMike1
06-23-2018, 09:25 PM
Thanks everyone!

JohnBurke
06-24-2018, 02:58 PM
I've known and flown with a lot of older pilots, many of whom retired doing freight, and some of whom kept going well after 65 as they moved to the FE seat. One of the most sprightly that I knew was 75 years old, and could beat me up the stairs to the main deck hauling a suitcase that was nearly as big as him.

He'd been doing freight as long as he could remember, which was longer than I could remember, as it was well before I was born.

I knew others that dropped dead long before, some from liver problems from excess drink, some from heart problems from excess food, and others simply because perhaps it was their time.

We all have a time.

Whether it falls before or after 65 doesn't have a lot to do with cargo, but a lot to do with the individual, be it a their genes or their disposition. A poor carpenter blames the tool.

tomgoodman
06-24-2018, 04:09 PM
Even if night flying imposes a health penalty, how many “bonus years” of lifespan are gained by not carrying passengers? :D

gumpscheck
06-24-2018, 04:20 PM
I've known and flown with a lot of older pilots, many of whom retired doing freight, and some of whom kept going well after 65 as they moved to the FE seat. One of the most sprightly that I knew was 75 years old, and could beat me up the stairs to the main deck hauling a suitcase that was nearly as big as him.

He'd been doing freight as long as he could remember, which was longer than I could remember, as it was well before I was born.

I knew others that dropped dead long before, some from liver problems from excess drink, some from heart problems from excess food, and others simply because perhaps it was their time.

We all have a time.

Whether it falls before or after 65 doesn't have a lot to do with cargo, but a lot to do with the individual, be it a their genes or their disposition. A poor carpenter blames the tool.

I agree 100%. No one knows when your ride will be over. That’s way above our pay grade.

Mark2792
06-24-2018, 05:05 PM
I really do not understand why we need an age limit at all. When I was a kid, Jim Rockford looked like this impossibly old man, despite the fact that the actor was 45 years old.

When I finally was that age, I didn't look anything like him.

These days people are healthier and we live longer. What IS needed is REAL FAA medicals, ones that really test you. I guarantee you that if we did this then we would have 70-75 year olds on the seniority list.

And a whole lot of 40-60 types GONE~

Sounds good to me. As a Republican conservative, I believe in letting the hardest workers work and achieve the greatest benefits. If I run 5 miles per day and are healthy as a result but some fat porkalard can't and as such loses his medical....Well then that is life, too bad so sad. Enjoy our Fedex retirement. The one that the AFL-CIO ensures you have...

JohnBurke
06-24-2018, 06:08 PM
These days people are healthier and we live longer. What IS needed is REAL FAA medicals, ones that really test you. I guarantee you that if we did this then we would have 70-75 year olds on the seniority list.


Ah, no. You'd have a lot less pilots in general.

When I hear someone call for stricter FAA exams, I hear a firing squad reloading somewhere.

742Dash
06-24-2018, 06:41 PM
Sounds good to me. As a Republican conservative, I believe in letting the hardest workers work and achieve the greatest benefits. If I run 5 miles per day and are healthy as a result but some fat porkalard can't and as such loses his medical....Well then that is life, too bad so sad....


Ever hear of Jim Fixx?


"James Fuller Fixx (April 23, 1932 – July 20, 1984) was an American who authored the 1977 best-selling book The Complete Book of Running (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Complete_Book_of_Running). He is credited with helping start America's fitness revolution, popularizing the sport of running." From his Wikipedia entry.



He died of a heart attack at age 52. You can not outrun your genetics.

gsphuntr
06-24-2018, 07:06 PM
Brian Maxwell - co founder of “power bar”, Elite distance runner, US Olympic team, UC Berkeley distance coach...

Dead of a heart attack at 51...

As quoted above... you can’t outrun your genetics.

nitefr8dog
06-25-2018, 05:07 PM
Brian Maxwell - co founder of “power bar”, Elite distance runner, US Olympic team, UC Berkeley distance coach...

Dead of a heart attack at 51...

As quoted above... you can’t outrun your genetics.

As my father in law used to say....you ever see a happy jogger?

lionflyer
06-25-2018, 08:08 PM
How many WWF wrestlers from the 80’s are gone now? They all died in their 40’s and 50’s
Randy Savage
Roddy Piper
Ultimate Warrior

BlueMoon
06-25-2018, 08:18 PM
How many WWF wrestlers from the 80’s are gone now? They all died in their 40’s and 50’s
Randy Savage
Roddy Piper
Ultimate Warrior

I would like to see their “supplement” regimen.

gumpscheck
06-25-2018, 08:48 PM
As my father in law used to say....you ever see a happy jogger?

I don’t know about “happy joggers” but I sure know many happy runners. I really enjoy running. You should try it.

Learflyer
06-25-2018, 08:56 PM
How many WWF wrestlers from the 80’s are gone now? They all died in their 40’s and 50’s
Randy Savage
Roddy Piper
Ultimate Warrior

Steroids destroyed their hearts.

nitefr8dog
06-26-2018, 08:36 AM
I don’t know about “happy joggers” but I sure know many happy runners. I really enjoy running. You should try it.
I do....6 days a week for an hr...hate every minute of it

busdriver12
06-26-2018, 08:44 AM
I do....6 days a week for an hr...hate every minute of it

That is heavy duty running, unless you're running very slow. If you're hating it, you should change it up, alternate with biking and hiking, anything else. Life is too short to be miserable. I do a lot of running and my spouse is an ultra fitness type, but couldn't imagine doing something we hated.

gumpscheck
06-26-2018, 09:10 AM
That is heavy duty running, unless you're running very slow. If you're hating it, you should change it up, alternate with biking and hiking, anything else. Life is too short to be miserable. I do a lot of running and my spouse is an ultra fitness type, but couldn't imagine doing something we hated.

Ditto!!! Be happy...

WingOffLight
06-26-2018, 09:51 PM
Exercise is important and it helps establish healthy sleep patterns.
I wont downplay exercise however I think dietary habits are more important. The men that I know who have survived this career are all at a reasonable weight and eat well.

nitefr8dog
06-27-2018, 06:49 AM
Exercise is important and it helps establish healthy sleep patterns.
I wont downplay exercise however I think dietary habits are more important. The men that I know who have survived this career are all at a reasonable weight and eat well.

As my last flight surgeon said after losing 40#s without excersize....portion control.

Stimpy the Kat
06-27-2018, 10:34 AM
" Exercise is important and it helps establish healthy sleep patterns.

Healthy sleep patterns have nothing to do with Freight flying. There is no such thing. No matter how well you exercise or eat.

That's the whole point of this thread.


Stimpson

SVTCobra
07-06-2018, 04:46 PM
Negative. Half of FDX flying is daytime. You can choose to stay senior and fly days within a couple of years and never fly a night hub turn again, if you so choose. And still make WB pay.

Can’t say that for about boys over at DL/UA flying WB int’l. Talk about circandian distruption... 3-4 Atlantic/pacific crossings a month? No bueno.

Pftt.. I’ve crossed the Atlantic 4 times in a week. Done the same crossing the Pacific. Been around the world ( literally) twice in two weeks. Not unusual at my company.

HoursHore
07-07-2018, 09:00 AM
in my 14 years at FDX I have amassed 2810 hours, which comes to a whopping 16.7 a month. I think that might offset the night flying effects.

ocskyguy
07-12-2018, 08:51 PM
Not sure who is how old on this thread. But, I will own my age. 62 and closing in on the age where the FAA has deemed I am too darn old to fly. Poppycock! (I know better words, but APC won’t let me use them).

It is genuinely about your satisfaction with life. Happy folks live longer. I still look forward to jumping in the jet and seeing a new place. Happens often at K4. I never run, but do walk extensively and lift a few days each week. Not looking to be Rambo, but want to be able to climb the stairs with my bags and not embarrass myself.

I tend to agree with the earlier poster that if the FAA made the mandatory retirement dependent on passing a real physical, old boys like me could keep chugging for a long time past 65. ‘Cuz we like what we do. It isn’t about the $. It is just about enjoying going to work. Enjoying the fun of flying. Isn’t that what got us all in this career in the first place?

Elevation
07-12-2018, 11:29 PM
Sodium intake is a big factor too. My blood pressure was creeping up until I stopped eating the cold cuts and sandwiches. I’m not 40 yet. Pretty much everything we get except for fruit is covered in high sodium sauces or comes from a can.

nitefr8dog
07-13-2018, 04:27 AM
Not sure who is how old on this thread. But, I will own my age. 62 and closing in on the age where the FAA has deemed I am too darn old to fly. Poppycock! (I know better words, but APC won’t let me use them).

It is genuinely about your satisfaction with life. Happy folks live longer. I still look forward to jumping in the jet and seeing a new place. Happens often at K4. I never run, but do walk extensively and lift a few days each week. Not looking to be Rambo, but want to be able to climb the stairs with my bags and not embarrass myself.

I tend to agree with the earlier poster that if the FAA made the mandatory retirement dependent on passing a real physical, old boys like me could keep chugging for a long time past 65. ‘Cuz we like what we do. It isn’t about the $. It is just about enjoying going to work. Enjoying the fun of flying. Isn’t that what got us all in this career in the first place?

Money and not wanting to work in a cubicle. I could fly to the same city everyday for the right pay and actually did for the first 15yrs at ABX . I am guessing everbody who goes to work because they love it...would quit if they stopped paying them.

tennesseeflyboy
07-17-2018, 05:58 AM
Hello all,

Does anyone have any information about the percent of pilots that croak or don’t croak that do night flight after they retire.

Thanks. I hear a lot of rumors but don’t know how true they are or what’s factual.

Would be very difficult to get that information unless some entity would be willing to divulge it, the Union would be one place that might know, the insurance companies and the company might be unwilling to provide it. There is nothing weird about your question, just that some here want to read between the lines and spin your question.

tennesseeflyboy
07-17-2018, 06:05 AM
Not sure who is how old on this thread. But, I will own my age. 62 and closing in on the age where the FAA has deemed I am too darn old to fly. Poppycock! (I know better words, but APC won’t let me use them).

It is genuinely about your satisfaction with life. Happy folks live longer. I still look forward to jumping in the jet and seeing a new place. Happens often at K4. I never run, but do walk extensively and lift a few days each week. Not looking to be Rambo, but want to be able to climb the stairs with my bags and not embarrass myself.

I tend to agree with the earlier poster that if the FAA made the mandatory retirement dependent on passing a real physical, old boys like me could keep chugging for a long time past 65. ‘Cuz we like what we do. It isn’t about the $. It is just about enjoying going to work. Enjoying the fun of flying. Isn’t that what got us all in this career in the first place?

Witness the other commercial pilots in USA that are flying well past 65 , Corporate pilots, Charter pilots, etc., the part 121 thing is an animal of its own right. We are blessed to have an occupation that we love to do, but I have to admit at my age near you, I am getting tired of packing my bags and climbing those stairs ....................