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View Full Version : IBT Scare Tactics at NAC


akfr8r
06-25-2018, 06:48 PM
The Teamsters are pushing the pilots at NAC to sign the CBA theyíve agreed on with the company, which involves significantly lower pay than other 767 freight operators and no home-basing. Theyíve raised the 737 pay enough that it will probably get voted in, but just for good measure, theyíre telling the members that if we donít vote to ratify, weíll have to throw out the whole CBA, start from scratch, and itíll be at least two years until we see a new agreement. Smells like BS to many of us. It sure seems that when the Teamsters are done negotiating, theyíre done. If you donít like it, you can pound sand.

To anyone considering working here, be ready to pay for a crash pad that youíll spend most of the month at, all while making a lot less than your peers across the ramp. Seriously, just go work elsewhere. This place has nothing to offer a new hire if you donít live in HNL or ANC.


Checkers21
06-26-2018, 10:20 AM
So what do they want to pay for 76 guys?

motorclutch
06-26-2018, 10:55 AM
Sounds like your negotiating committee is pretty inept. This sounds like the same scenario at ATI ......change the name to ALPA.


Hawaii808
06-26-2018, 12:28 PM
So what do they want to pay for 76 guys?

Captain:
Year 1: $160. Year 12: $230

FO:
Year 1: $84. Year 12: $162

Considering itís a new operation and we only have 3 767s I think economies of scale come in to play with this pay scale.

akfr8r
06-26-2018, 01:28 PM
Captain:
Year 1: $160. Year 12: $230

FO:
Year 1: $84. Year 12: $162

Considering itís a new operation and we only have 3 767s I think economies of scale come in to play with this pay scale.

Sure. That doesnít change the fact that theyíre competing for the same new-hires as the competition, who have higher pay and home-basing.

We did better on the 737 than the Miami guys did overall, but itís still the same base pay we have right now, with the bonus rolled in. So excuse me if I donít put up the victory banner. Most people I talk to here in ANC arenít exactly thrilled, either.

WingOffLight
06-26-2018, 08:57 PM
Youíre not competing for the same new hires. There is always someone willing to do the job. As an employer you just have to be willing to let them do the job.

If it doesnít make sense, think about it.

nitefr8dog
06-27-2018, 06:52 AM
Youíre not competing for the same new hires. There is always someone willing to do the job. As an employer you just have to be willing to let them do the job.

If it doesnít make sense, think about it.
And you get what you pay for...failed training attempts, dui's, criminal records......

DC8DRIVER
06-27-2018, 10:46 AM
Captain:
Year 1: $160. Year 12: $230

FO:
Year 1: $84. Year 12: $162

Considering itís a new operation and we only have 3 767s I think economies of scale come in to play with this pay scale.

You should always fight for the best contract possible and I don't know where you started, but those rates are a lot higher that Atlas 76 rates!

nitefr8dog
06-27-2018, 12:28 PM
You should always fight for the best contract possible and I don't know where you started, but those rates are a lot higher that Atlas 76 rates!
That's 12$ more per hr than a concessionary 9 yr old contract at ABXAir for 12 yr Captain pay.

Cujo665
06-27-2018, 12:39 PM
Vote no and let the pilot shortage work itís magic for you. Itís worked well everywhere else when the pilot group holds firm.

White Cap
06-27-2018, 04:50 PM
First contracts are never too good. Every airline needs to be contractual with some group or another. Some of you know what a playground can be for management without a contract. IBT scare tactics? I am hoping that many NAC pilots helped to get the IBT this far.

akfr8r
06-28-2018, 03:04 AM
First contracts are never too good. Every airline needs to be contractual with some group or another. Some of you know what a playground can be for management without a contract. IBT scare tactics? I am hoping that many NAC pilots helped to get the IBT this far.

Itís not a first contract here.

White Cap
06-28-2018, 05:38 AM
Itís not a first contract here.

I stand corrected. It took us 12 years of grinding to get a contract that is somewhat competitive for the AJT folks.

Hawaii808
06-28-2018, 09:41 AM
It is a first contract for the 767. The 3rd 767 just came on property or will be shortly.

As far as 737 rates go it is true that our retention bonus was just rolled in to the current pay rates. However the pay increase from the LOA last year was pretty substantial. This time last year first year FO pay at aloha was $52/hr. The contract has it at $83/hr.

Sounds to me like somebody is upset because he Bid 767 before there was a contract and was expecting homebasing (why would a company do that when they are going to have two very well defined bases doing mostly out and backs to start).

akfr8r
06-28-2018, 12:09 PM
Sounds to me like somebody is upset because he Bid 767 before there was a contract and was expecting homebasing (why would a company do that when they are going to have two very well defined bases doing mostly out and backs to start).

Iím on the 73, bud. Itís funny how the HNL crowd seems to think theyíre gonna be insulated from all the crap flying forever. You guys think youíll never have to do a 17-day run around the world or any LRD flying because youíre HNL-based. Youíll come to understand in time that those distinctions mean nothing to NAC. If it suits them to run rubber ducks out of Hong Kong with HNL crews, thatís exactly what theyíll do. Or close HNL on the 767 and open a CVG base. Or run ad-hoc lines for LRD out of the HNL base. You should all vote accordingly.

atpcliff
06-28-2018, 12:20 PM
Youíre not competing for the same new hires. There is always someone willing to do the job. As an employer you just have to be willing to let them do the job.

If it doesnít make sense, think about it.

EVERYONE is competing for the same new hires:
NAC
Delta
Kalitta
UPS
Spirit
Chinese Airlines
Emirates
etc., etc.

If any new contract is significantly below industry standard, it will get harder and harder to find new hires. If your company is small and/or has unusual requirements (like ACMI), without even a better than industry-standard contract, it will still be hard to attract candidates.
If your airline wants to grow significantly, it will be very, very difficult without a contract that is equal to or better than the highest tier contracts in the industry.
The Pilot Shortage will be getting worse and worse over the next 5 years, at least.

atpcliff
06-28-2018, 12:22 PM
Vote no and let the pilot shortage work itís magic for you. Itís worked well everywhere else when the pilot group holds firm.

This has worked well for many pilots the past few years, and it will work even better now, and in the next few years!

crazycoconut
06-29-2018, 12:51 AM
Iím on the 73, bud. Itís funny how the HNL crowd seems to think theyíre gonna be insulated from all the crap flying forever. You guys think youíll never have to do a 17-day run around the world or any LRD flying because youíre HNL-based. Youíll come to understand in time that those distinctions mean nothing to NAC. If it suits them to run rubber ducks out of Hong Kong with HNL crews, thatís exactly what theyíll do. Or close HNL on the 767 and open a CVG base. Or run ad-hoc lines for LRD out of the HNL base. You should all vote accordingly.

Isn't the point of having a contract with rules, that the company can't do the things like you stated above. They can only do the things you say if you let them. I think you guys are just used to letting the company do stuff because you didn't have language in your current contract to prevent it. Who would sit reserve and agree to only get paid if you fly but you guys agreed to it in your last contract. From what I know about NAC is was not too long ago you guys had no contract. From what my friends told me about your current TA you now have a vast improvement from what you had before and light years ahead of what you had just a few years ago. But seems like that is not good enough for you, you want to have an industry leading contract. But the fact is you are a tiny company with only three 767s and a handful of 737s, you can't expect to have what everyone else has. If it bothers you so much, why not go work for one of the other guys. Like you said , everyone is hiring.

As for what you said about IBT using scare tactics, well I guess you have not been around airline negotiations for too long. Yes, there is a time to hold strong but you have to have some leverage to do so. You seem to think that just because everyone is hiring that the company will not be able to replace you. That is not true in your case. I'll bet half the pilots in HNL and half in ANC have lived there for a long time and they will not be picking up and moving and they ain't going to start commuting from those places. So they will take what they can get from this contract and go after more the next time. Out of the rest, ya some might move on, but the company will not have a hard time replacing them. Look, in Hawaii, Island Air is out of business so where do you think young pilots starting out will go now? Commute to the west coast at Skywest or Compass or go to Aloha Cargo. And in your other base in MIA, well it will not be a problem finding 767 drivers who want to be based in MIA. First rule in negotiations is to not under-estimate your enemy. The company knows all the above too well so saying they will not be able to hire is laughable to them.

It sounds like this is your first airline and it did not turn out to be what you expected it to be, so maybe for you it is time to move on. But just remember the grass is not always greener on the other side. I have friends that work at all the cargo guys and even the ones at Fedex and UPS complain about their contract. Just human nature my friend, we all want what the other guy has. But with airline contracts you really just need to ask your self, "will this contract improve my life for the next 4-5 years til we can go at them again?" It is the nature of negotiations, neither side gets everything they want.

crazycoconut
06-29-2018, 12:59 AM
This has worked well for many pilots the past few years, and it will work even better now, and in the next few years!

just because a certain tactic has worked at one place does not mean it will work everywhere. Explain how Mesa has been a bottom feeder for years yet they don't seem to have a problem finding pilots.

A small cargo op like NAC is not the same as the larger more established cargo operators. Plus they are in a unique position compared to other airlines. Having bases is HNL and ANC were are local pilots going to work that are unwilling to commute 2500 miles just to get to the nearest place in the lower 48?
Plus it was not too long ago that the NAC pilots were working with no contract, they didn't seem to have a problem hiring pilots then with the crappy work rules they had. Now they can have a contract will vast improvement and you say, just hold out to get more, the company wil be afraid of the great pilot shortage. That is the most naive thinking I can think of

akfr8r
06-29-2018, 01:17 AM
You think there will be language in any contract that prevents a company from opening or closing bases or shifting its assists between them? Sounds like you are the one whose naive, my man.

motorclutch
06-29-2018, 03:40 AM
Great Pryor two posts! Dead nuts on!

White Cap
06-29-2018, 07:15 AM
You think there will be language in any contract that prevents a company from opening or closing bases or shifting its assists between them? Sounds like you are the one whose naive, my man.

Isn't that the whole point of work rules, as spelled out in a union contract? If you don't like the rules, reject the TA and start talking again. Honestly, do you even know how this works? Don't blame the IBT for your lack of involvement in the whole process.

bozobigtop
06-29-2018, 09:25 AM
And you get what you pay for...failed training attempts, dui's, criminal records......


I stopped believing in the tooth fairy long ago but you would be surprised by whatís out there.

nitefr8dog
06-29-2018, 09:32 AM
Isn't that the whole point of work rules, as spelled out in a union contract? If you don't like the rules, reject the TA and start talking again. Honestly, do you even know how this works? Don't blame the IBT for your lack of involvement in the whole process.

That's funny....the whole process? Like the grievance process? With no punitive damages and the company playing dumb and told to stop violating the contract so they can turn around and do it all again? Why because they can! A contract means nothing unless you are in sec 6 and have some nuts to park airplanes. Hold out for EVERTHING! It could be 10yrs or more you are stuck with this disaster. The RLA has almost no time limits. No favors no waivers!

crazycoconut
06-29-2018, 11:31 AM
You think there will be language in any contract that prevents a company from opening or closing bases or shifting its assists between them? Sounds like you are the one whose naive, my man.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? Of coarse the company can open and close bases and move airplanes, happens all the time. Do you really think the company is going to move the 767 based in HNL some place else? Why?, they make good money with that route, if anything they should be adding planes.
Even if they did, so what, I'm sure there is language in the new contract that spells out what happens tot he pilots displaced. I would bet the vast majority would just go back tot he 737 in HNL.

Really seems like you are just mad that there are fences and you can't jump right into the 767 in HNL. Well, just remember that 767 was flying out of HNL 3 years ago, long before your management even thought about a merge. and the fence works both ways, I know there are guys in HNL that want to go to MIA.

crazycoconut
06-29-2018, 12:00 PM
That's funny....the whole process? Like the grievance process? With no punitive damages and the company playing dumb and told to stop violating the contract so they can turn around and do it all again? Why because they can! A contract means nothing unless you are in sec 6 and have some nuts to park airplanes. Hold out for EVERTHING! It could be 10yrs or more you are stuck with this disaster. The RLA has almost no time limits. No favors no waivers!
you are delusional, hold out for everything, ya that tactic will really work. Do you know nothing about negotiations? You think you just walk in with demands and say we are not signing unless we get everything we want? What exactly is your leverage to make that demand? You will strike? Well like you pointed out the RLA will not let you do that and the company can just drag things out forever. You don't like that, well go to Congress and tell them to get rid of it. On the company side they give a monetary value for EVERYTHING, even if it does not cost them a dime to do. You want something, they will say , what are you giving us for that, that is equal value? You want home-basing? The fact is that cost the company money, what are you willing to give up to get it? You can't just say, Well all the other cargo guys have it. Fact is they do different flying than you. Atlas and Kalitta pilots leave home and don't come back for 17 days or more, so home basing makes sense for them. You guys have 2 airplanes based in MIA that do day trips. Why would a company give you home basing? just because you don't live there and want it? keep dreaming.

If you think your grievance process is a joke, whose fault is that? I have filed many grievances over the years and every time I ended up with a check in my hand. If you are not getting the same results then time to replace your reps. You have to fight for things in your contract, the company is not going to just hand you stuff because you ask politely.

nitefr8dog
06-29-2018, 02:40 PM
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? Of coarse the company can open and close bases and move airplanes, happens all the time. Do you really think the company is going to move the 767 based in HNL some place else? Why?, they make good money with that route, if anything they should be adding planes.
Even if they did, so what, I'm sure there is language in the new contract that spells out what happens tot he pilots displaced. I would bet the vast majority would just go back tot he 737 in HNL.

Really seems like you are just mad that there are fences and you can't jump right into the 767 in HNL. Well, just remember that 767 was flying out of HNL 3 years ago, long before your management even thought about a merge. and the fence works both ways, I know there are guys in HNL that want to go to MIA.
3 yrs ago? They have only had 767s for 6-8 mos. And ABX/ATI had/has been operating the LAX-HNL flight while NAC worked on ETOPS.

Hawaii808
06-29-2018, 03:18 PM
3 yrs ago? They have only had 767s for 6-8 mos. And ABX/ATI had/has been operating the LAX-HNL flight while NAC worked on ETOPS.

FALSE! Coconut is correct. While NAC has only had a 767 for 6 months the HNL route has been flying for 3+ years as branded Aloha Air Cargo work. It was subcontracted out to ATI/ABX.

Bungalow
06-29-2018, 03:20 PM
Great Pryor two posts! Dead nuts on!

Yep. Specially the part about going somewhere else if you donít like what youíve got.

akfr8r
06-29-2018, 03:42 PM
FALSE! Coconut is correct. While NAC has only had a 767 for 6 months the HNL route has been flying for 3+ years as branded Aloha Air Cargo work. It was subcontracted out to ATI/ABX.

ďBranded AlohaĒ LoL. Kinda like Envoy is branded American. Same thing, right?

Donít really see how AAC guys are somehow connected to flying that was done by another airline, with different pilots. The paint job is pretty irrelevant.

akfr8r
06-29-2018, 03:54 PM
Iím not saying there shouldnít be a fence. It is what it is, and it doesnít matter to me at all. I have no interest in leaving ANC. But donít pretend that AAC has been doing anything more than sorting boxes for an ABX flight for years. Maybe management has been involved, but thatís about it.

Hawaii808
06-29-2018, 04:12 PM
Iím not saying there shouldnít be a fence. It is what it is, and it doesnít matter to me at all. I have no interest in leaving ANC. But donít pretend that AAC has been doing anything more than sorting boxes for an ABX flight for years. Maybe management has been involved, but thatís about it.

Thatís not how this works. Thatís not how any of this works.

nitefr8dog
06-29-2018, 05:16 PM
Thatís not how this works. Thatís not how any of this works.

Oh....well that clears up everything..

tiredofjrm
06-29-2018, 06:30 PM
thatís not how this works. Thatís not how any of this works.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Kougarok
06-29-2018, 07:17 PM
Thatís not how this works. Thatís not how any of this works.

Enlighten us....

crazycoconut
06-29-2018, 11:42 PM
Enlighten us....

ok I will enlighten you bozos since you all like to talk about stuff that you obviously know nothing about....

Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.

nitefr8dog
06-30-2018, 11:52 AM
ok I will enlighten you bozos since you all like to talk about stuff that you obviously know nothing about....

Aloha started flying a 767-300 under a wet lease agreement to open a new route from HNL to LAX 3 years ago. They wanted to see if they could turn a profit on this route with a new airplane type before they committed the capital to adding a new fleet. The pilot contract allowed a wet lease for 2 yrs before the company would have to use Aloha pilots on the airplane. As the 2 year deadline approached, NAC management dragged their feet on getting the 767 on their certificate and having the Aloha pilots fly the plane. The Aloha union agreed to a 1 yr extension for some conditions. Then the Aloha Flt Ops team started work on getting the 767 certificate on the Aloha Certificate and getting expedited ETOPS (since they already had years of ETOPS experience).
Keep in mind, during this time the NAS management never said they planned to merge Aloha and NAC. Then about 2 weeks before Aloha Flt ops was set to meet with the FAA for getting the certificate, NAS management decided they were going to get the 767 certificate put on the NAC certificate instead. Great management decision, only cost them 7 months more time and who knows how much money to start the process over again.
If you don't see how Aloha pilots are connected to the 767 flying , then you don't know how the airline industry works. wet leases are done all the time. When Aloha Cargo started the wet lease, they had the career expectation to fly the airplane within 2 yrs. At that time the NAC pilots had no career expectation to ever fly a 767. You don't think that means anything? well go back and look at every merger of the majors in the the last several years. They all had some fence arrangement based on career exceptions.
How do I know all this, well I know the ex-DO at Aloha and I heard the whole story.
Wow.....it sounds like management lied to the pilots. They could never have seen that coming! Management never does that!

akfr8r
06-30-2018, 12:23 PM
Listen, itís a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldnít be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guysí claim to that flying definitely wasnít set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.

The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didnít want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They arenít. Thatís why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. Whatís done is done.

What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.

Kougarok
06-30-2018, 12:30 PM
Listen, itís a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldnít be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guysí claim to that flying definitely wasnít set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.

The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didnít want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They arenít. Thatís why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. Whatís done is done.

What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.

DK is one of the good guys. Youíre lucky to have him. Iíll trade you JH for him in a heartbeat!

Hawaii808
06-30-2018, 06:28 PM
Listen, itís a stupid argument anyway. Nobody is saying the fence situation shouldnít be the way it is. The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guysí claim to that flying definitely wasnít set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.

The good news is that Karp actually decided to do right by you guys and made sure you held onto it, and our Union reps didnít want to fight it. It would have been a nasty situation, and nobody wanted that. But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They arenít. Thatís why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced. But like I said, the argument is pointless. Whatís done is done.

What we should be talking about is the viability of this CBA. Not calling each other names and getting emotional like a bunch of idiots.

Aloha guys were ****ed because it appeared as though we were getting close to a TAíd contract and then NAS announced the merger and that ended contract talks with Aloha. It was pretty obvious that NAS was negotiating in bad faith with every intention of having us renegotiate everything in a JCBA. If there was no merger announcement Aloha pilots would probably be flying that route by now. For NAC pilots to say that aloha is basically a box sorter for ATI shows a lack of understanding of the agreements that were made with Alohas pilot group and what cargo contracts Aloha currently flys on that route. Crazycoconut was just stating how we got here with the AAC 767 program.

The way this 767 program has been run so far has cost everyone a bunch of time and money unnecessarily. Hopefully the dust settles soon and AAC/NAC pilots will be flying the 767 as one pilot group.

Correct me if Iím wrong, but the Fences (which really only protect the initial group of 767 pilot slots for each base) were negotiated and arbitrated in the SLI committee. Karp had nothing to do with it.

I have my own opinions on the JCBA. Some good some bad. I think our union reps worked incredibly hard to get a contract that they believe is acceptable to the majority of the pilot group and they should be commended for their efforts. It is now up to each pilot to become educated on whatís in the JCBA and decide whether itís acceptable to them or not and vote accordingly. I look forward to seeing the results.

Aloha

crazycoconut
07-01-2018, 02:48 PM
The fact is that when NAS decided to merge the airlines, the status of the AAC guysí claim to that flying definitely wasnít set in stone, which is why you all were losing your minds when the news broke.

..... But you guys are definitely overstating how ironclad your rights to that flying are. They arenít. Thatís why you were all going nuts when the merger was announced.

you also said earlier in the thread.
"Donít really see how AAC guys are somehow connected to flying that was done by another airline, with different pilots"

So you obviously you feel that the Aloha pilots should not have rights to bid the 767 before NAC pilots. in HNL. But you keep ignoring the facts.
When the 767 was brought on to the Aloha property, there was no talk or rumor of any merger. So why wouldn't the Aloha pilots not be "connected" to the 767 flying out of HNL? And yes, they didn't fly it when it started, because that was allowed by the contract. Check your TA, I'll bet there is section that allows a wet lease.
If the decision to merge didn't happen, the Aloha pilots would have been flying the 767 last Fall. That is how close they were to an agreement with Aloha management on pay rates and they were ready to go to the FAA to start proving runs.

Like you said, what happened , happened, but if you go forward telling people that Aloha pilots don't have a right to have a fence on the HNL 767 pilots, then you will never have the unity that you claim you want.

Fact is airline mergers are messy. Pilots get bumped out of bases they have lived in for years, they get bumped out of equipment, have 1000s of other pilots put senior to them, etc. All that sucks, but you have to acknowledge the facts. If your company never had a type of airline and never had any plans to get it. then you had no career expectation of flying it.

It is the same mentality that says, "all your pilots should be put at the bottom of the seniority list because you guys are being added to our certificate." Total BS, should be date of hire , period.

hopefully your merger goes smoothly, but looking at some of the mergers in the past 10 years, that is not always the case. There are still lawsuits pending over some of them.

akfr8r
07-02-2018, 03:02 PM
So you obviously you feel that the Aloha pilots should not have rights to bid the 767 before NAC pilots. in HNL.

Ah, no. Thatís not what I said. The fences are fine. I have no desire to see people getting screwed. Iíve heard nothing but good things about the HNL crowd from guys that have met them. But thereís a difference between whatís decent and right and whatís ironclad in writing. Iím for whatís decent and right. Doesnít mean it was ever a sure thing. Just means itís the right thing to do.

Iím not so sure why youíre determined that everyone must hate each other. You say you donít work here, so maybe go find another thread to troll.

Aksleddriver
07-14-2018, 08:01 PM
So it took me some time to figure out what you were referring to artic, but no akfr8r is not me. Iím out in the open about my concerns with the new contract, I was man enough to share my concerns in a very public email chain, Iím a big boy and donít need to hide behind fake names or anonymous internet profiles. ted

Hawaii808
07-24-2018, 01:04 PM
Looks like we have a new contract.

RyeMex
07-24-2018, 01:34 PM
Looks like we have a new contract.

Is this a JCBA for NAC and Aloha? Can anyone give details?

Hawaii808
07-24-2018, 03:09 PM
Is this a JCBA for NAC and Aloha? Can anyone give details?

Yes it is. PM me with your questions.

Kougarok
07-24-2018, 04:51 PM
Whatís the 12 year 767 captain hourly rate and guarantee? How many days off and how many weeks of vacation?

Jurassic Jet
07-24-2018, 05:00 PM
Whatís the 12 year 767 captain hourly rate and guarantee? How many days off and how many weeks of vacation?

And retirement?

Aksleddriver
07-24-2018, 07:08 PM
Whatís the 12 year 767 captain hourly rate and guarantee? How many days off and how many weeks of vacation?

767 ca pay starts at dos+1 $166, 12 year caps at dos+4 $258
767 fo 1st yr $84 12 yr $182
737 ca 1st yr $133 12 yr $204
737 fo 1st yr $83

Guarantee is 65 hrs, witch historically has been hard to break.

Retirement, typical supplemental, you better have a plan of your own,

Nut shell the 767 guys got an increase, the 737 guy got the retention bonus rolled into the hourly.

Lots of promises as far as picking up pay, but thatís all due to the schedule, so only time will tell.