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View Full Version : Sun Country Airlines in pdx


Outdoors
06-27-2018, 12:44 PM
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/sun-country-grows-seasonal-service-in-portland-449747/

This year they will have added six new routes out of pdx, most overlapping alaska routes.


OCCP
06-27-2018, 03:38 PM
Thatís because everyone knows Alaska is weak. I think suncountry is also going to fly sea-anc as well as lax-hnl

KnockKnock
06-27-2018, 04:07 PM
Thatís because everyone knows Alaska is weak. I think suncountry is also going to fly sea-anc as well as lax-hnl
Weak, maybe, depends on who you ask. Stronger than VX ever was, indisputable. Cheers


flysnoopy76
06-27-2018, 05:01 PM
Weak, maybe, depends on who you ask. Stronger than VX ever was, indisputable. Cheers

Not sure why that would matter at this point, hopefully Alaska has some viable plan for the future other than essentially no growth for the next few years outside of Skywest and Horizon. Once Southwest is finished picking us apart along with Delta, United, JetBlue, etc. it wont be pleasant for a lot of people regardless if you were at Alaska or Virgin.

OCCP
06-27-2018, 05:16 PM
Weíre all in this together now, knockknock. Itís not an As/VX thing, itís an Alaska management be clueless thing. What other airline is closing bases, cutting routes, parking planes, and letting other carriers walk all over them?

KnockKnock
06-27-2018, 05:26 PM
Not sure why that would matter at this point, hopefully Alaska has some viable plan for the future other than essentially no growth for the next few years outside of Skywest and Horizon. Once Southwest is finished picking us apart along with Delta, United, JetBlue, etc. it wont be pleasant for a lot of people regardless if you were at Alaska or Virgin.
Not sure why what matters at this point? OCCP’s clear disdain for AS has been noted at this point by everyone who has looked at any post associated with Alaska. His feelings are hurt that his airline is gone after a mere 9+ years. The wounds are manifesting in the form of lashing out at all things AS. I’m just being his huckleberry and reminding him that as bad as he thinks it is here, “HERE” still exists and is much stronger than the place he came from. Mostly just poking the angry bear :)

KnockKnock
06-27-2018, 05:55 PM
Weíre all in this together now, knockknock. Itís not an As/VX thing, itís an Alaska management be clueless thing. What other airline is closing bases, cutting routes, parking planes, and letting other carriers walk all over them?
Honest question, when things were not going well at VX, profit wise, CBA, etc, etc, were you as vocal in letting everyone know how unhappy you were with VX? I agree with you on being on the same team and let’s fix it, but it seems like you try to squeeze in as many shots as you can in as many treads as you can out of spite and nothing else.

OCCP
06-27-2018, 06:25 PM
Iím just a bitter sob!

beech1980
06-28-2018, 05:10 AM
That’s because everyone knows Alaska is weak. I think suncountry is also going to fly sea-anc as well as lax-hnl

They are flying those routes. They have added out of PDX: RNO, PHX, PSP, LAS, HNL. I would guess SC will add more routes to Alaska, Hawaii and to and from the PNW.

The new VP of network and pricing came from Alaska. He knows that market.

av8or
06-28-2018, 10:22 AM
The new VP of network and pricing came from Alaska. He knows that market.

Wow. Well, no worries. Weíre gonna be just fine here at George Armstrong Custer Airlines. 😉

Excargodog
06-28-2018, 11:51 AM
Wow. Well, no worries. We’re gonna be just fine here at George Armstrong Custer Airlines. ��

I gotta admit, buying-the-competition-for-more-than-they-are-worth-then-shutting-them-down as a business plan does appear to leave a little to be desired, at least over the long haul.

KnockKnock
06-28-2018, 12:35 PM
I gotta admit, buying-the-competition-for-more-than-they-are-worth-then-shutting-them-down as a business plan does appear to leave a little to be desired, at least over the long haul.
Did Southwest keep Airtran’s model alive? Did AA keep TWA’s culture and vibe intact? In fact, who’s business plan has survived the AA-TWA-USA-AWA blend? I think that the purchasing company has typically remained the business plan used after such an acquisition. What was ASA expected to do with VX? There was no secret why they bought them.

full of luv
06-28-2018, 12:47 PM
Did Southwest keep Airtranís model alive? Did AA keep TWAís culture and vibe intact? In fact, whoís business plan has survived the AA-TWA-USA-AWA blend? I think that the purchasing company has typically remained the business plan used after such an acquisition. What was ASA expected to do with VX? There was no secret why they bought them.

Dont forget Reno Air and PSA.....

opdeliber
06-28-2018, 01:03 PM
Dont forget Reno Air and PSA.....

and one day you can add AS to that list

KnockKnock
06-28-2018, 01:16 PM
and one day you can add AS to that list
I’m sure you can add most airlines in existence today to a list of airlines that won’t be around in the next 30-40 years. There will be many many more mergers and acquisitions. Oh well, that’s the business.

WhaleSurfing
06-28-2018, 01:25 PM
Dont forget Reno Air and PSA.....

Yes PSA....How stupid was US Air on that one? Same for Air Cal and AA. Pretty much tells you how stupid US and AA management was in losing that culture and route system, but WN thanks you.

Packrat
06-28-2018, 01:33 PM
Not sure why what matters at this point? OCCPís clear disdain for AS has been noted at this point by everyone who has looked at any post associated with Alaska. His feelings are hurt that his airline is gone after a mere 9+ years. The wounds are manifesting in the form of lashing out at all things AS. Iím just being his huckleberry and reminding him that as bad as he thinks it is here, ďHEREĒ still exists and is much stronger than the place he came from. Mostly just poking the angry bear :)

He hasn't quit yet, either.

opdeliber
06-28-2018, 01:43 PM
Very true.. one thing thatís constant is change Iím sure you can add most airlines in existence today to a list of airlines that wonít be around in the next 30-40 years. There will be many many more mergers and acquisitions. Oh well, thatís the business.

OCCP
06-29-2018, 09:34 AM
He hasn't quit yet, either.



Iím too old to start over. But yeah thereís nothing I like about Alaska. Iím a professional and I show up, do my job, follow the rules, go home. No love, no loyalty. This is the environment they created.

ExFokkerFlyer
06-29-2018, 06:12 PM
Iím too old to start over. But yeah thereís nothing I like about Alaska. Iím a professional and I show up, do my job, follow the rules, go home. No love, no loyalty. This is the environment they created.

That pretty much describes every former VX Pilot Iíve flown with or talked to... including myself.

pilotmsp
07-03-2018, 03:57 PM
Iím too old to start over. But yeah thereís nothing I like about Alaska. Iím a professional and I show up, do my job, follow the rules, go home. No love, no loyalty. This is the environment they created.

True!!!! If you live by most of the above then you've basically described what its like to work for most of the carriers in the USA. Show up, do your job, then clock out. The best remedy to an early death due to stress. Live like a contract worker. They pay me x amount to move these people from this city to that city.

We shouldn't talk about politics, religion, sexuality, or merger BS on the flight deck. Makes for a more peaceful existence. I find if I follow the aforementioned rules, my trips go easier, and I am able to leave the airport feeling better about the trip. I also don't usually hit these message boards, but felt that today I needed to. The merger is getting to it's low point. Just know that things will get better soon. Just worry about your own safety, and the people behind you will be safe also....Give this whole process a few years and things will settle down, that is unless we start the whole process over again!!! Then add a few more years!!!

Snuffaluffagus
07-03-2018, 05:32 PM
Management's problem, not mine. Let them figure it out :)

echelon
07-03-2018, 07:08 PM
We shouldn't talk about.... merger BS on the flight deck.

I disagree with this part... Some of the pilots at our combined airline need their eyes opened. Discussing issues that affect all of us is worthwhile so we can collectively figure out what's important in 2020.

pilotmsp
07-04-2018, 12:40 PM
I disagree with this part... Some of the pilots at our combined airline need their eyes opened. Discussing issues that affect all of us is worthwhile so we can collectively figure out what's important in 2020.

I agree, but being perpetually negative about what is out of our control is toxic. I should have pointed out that contract 2020 is not a part of the merger BS. We are gonna need to be a unified group going into that negotiation therefore it's not off limits. The timing might be good to help lessen the blow that many will feel from SLI. Lets get prepared for negotiations and leave the other stuff we cannot control somewhere else. Living by these rules have made it tolerable to go to work, at least for myself.

After 25 years of flying, I still like what we do.....

Ispeakjive
07-04-2018, 04:32 PM
Management's problem, not mine. Let them figure it out :)

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snuffaluffagus

OCCP
07-04-2018, 05:40 PM
After 25 years of flying, I still like what we do.....



If you werenít captain you may not be saying that. It sucks being a VX fo getting hosed in the sli no matter what outcome and seeing your opportunity to upgrade slowly get farther away. Consider yourself lucky.

Mudhen200
07-05-2018, 06:57 AM
If you werenít captain you may not be saying that. It sucks being a VX fo getting hosed in the sli no matter what outcome and seeing your opportunity to upgrade slowly get farther away. Consider yourself lucky.

It isn't luck. It's just life. It is just the random outcome of being born in a certain year verses another. This industry, like many others, has cycles.

There were some men in the 60's who where hired by UAL with about 300 hours of total time. They were born in a good year.

There were men in the early 90's who could not get hired by Horizon with 4,000 hours of turbine PIC, but many women and minorities with a quarter of that flight time could. Those men were not born is a good year. Those women and minorities were.

I've known men who went from new hire FE to FO to Captain on a B727 in 11 months. That was a good year.

I've known men who went through B scale, then Kasher, then downgrade in about the same amount of time. Not a good year.

I have recently flown with an F/O in his mid 20's who has been flying for a grand total of 4 years. From college to Alaska in 4 years. He was born in a good year.

If the arbitrators award the VX SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 300-350 guys stacked on me. Not a good year.

If the arbitrators award the AK SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 6 guys stacked on me. A good year.

I had no control over Mom and Dad's actions nearly a half century ago and I have no control over the cycle of the industry today and I certainly have no control over what an arbitration panel will do. It is simply this thing called life.

ShyGuy
07-05-2018, 07:26 AM
That is luck. The timing of entering the industry at a given time and what the current economy and industry is doing then.

Foofighterpilot
07-05-2018, 08:10 AM
I play the Lottery....apparently still not a good year!!

symbian simian
07-05-2018, 10:53 AM
It isn't luck. It's just life. It is just the random outcome of being born in a certain year verses another. This industry, like many others, has cycles.

There were some men in the 60's who where hired by UAL with about 300 hours of total time. They were born in a good year.

There were men in the early 90's who could not get hired by Horizon with 4,000 hours of turbine PIC, but many women and minorities with a quarter of that flight time could. Those men were not born is a good year. Those women and minorities were.

I've known men who went from new hire FE to FO to Captain on a B727 in 11 months. That was a good year.

I've known men who went through B scale, then Kasher, then downgrade in about the same amount of time. Not a good year.

I have recently flown with an F/O in his mid 20's who has been flying for a grand total of 4 years. From college to Alaska in 4 years. He was born in a good year.

If the arbitrators award the VX SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 300-350 guys stacked on me. Not a good year.

If the arbitrators award the AK SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 6 guys stacked on me. A good year.

I had no control over Mom and Dad's actions nearly a half century ago and I have no control over the cycle of the industry today and I certainly have no control over what an arbitration panel will do. It is simply this thing called life.


Yes, I totally agree with you on almost all, but sorry to be the effing-PC-guy, I would love to see a photo of that all minority/female class from Horizon. I am a white male, my competition is other white males. I have never seen a class in any airline with more than 10% minority/female pilots. Yes, it was absolutely easier to get hired by UAL in the nineties after they were forced to hire more minorities because the agreed to hire twice the ratio off minority/female applicant.

EEOC Targets Jobs at United Airlines - latimes (http://articles.latimes.com/1988-09-13/news/mn-2083_1_united-airlines)

I am guessing they complied to the letter and recruited 20% per class maximum minority/female, so still white male = 80% of the class.

Statistically speaking, less than 10% of the pilots hired by the legacies (probably closer to 5%) have been female/minority hires. If they never hired any of them you would have a 10 % better chance of getting hired.

From the DOT:
Female air traffic controllers now represent 26% of the air traffic controller population. Female flight dispatchers stand at nearly 18% of the people working in this field. Even female aerospace engineers have made greater progress. Virtually non-existent in 1960, the percentage of women making a living as aerospace engineers reached 9.2% in 2010.

Interestingly, the percentage of commercial female pilots is half of the percentage of female boat captains and operators (8.2%), a quarter of the percentage of female police and sheriffís patrol officers (15%), and about one eighth of the percentage of female doctors and surgeons (31.8%).

Rant over, sorry

Bugaboo
07-05-2018, 11:12 AM
It isn't luck. It's just life. It is just the random outcome of being born in a certain year verses another. This industry, like many others, has cycles.

There were some men in the 60's who where hired by UAL with about 300 hours of total time. They were born in a good year.

There were men in the early 90's who could not get hired by Horizon with 4,000 hours of turbine PIC, but many women and minorities with a quarter of that flight time could. Those men were not born is a good year. Those women and minorities were.

I've known men who went from new hire FE to FO to Captain on a B727 in 11 months. That was a good year.

I've known men who went through B scale, then Kasher, then downgrade in about the same amount of time. Not a good year.

I have recently flown with an F/O in his mid 20's who has been flying for a grand total of 4 years. From college to Alaska in 4 years. He was born in a good year.

If the arbitrators award the VX SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 300-350 guys stacked on me. Not a good year.

If the arbitrators award the AK SLI proposal, I will have somewhere around 6 guys stacked on me. A good year.

I had no control over Mom and Dad's actions nearly a half century ago and I have no control over the cycle of the industry today and I certainly have no control over what an arbitration panel will do. It is simply this thing called life.

In both scenarios you were born in a good year if you take relative seniority into account and stop worrying about who is "stacked" in front of you.

Work4life
07-05-2018, 08:33 PM
In both scenarios you were born in a good year if you take relative seniority into account and stop worrying about who is "stacked" in front of you.

Would you be singing the same tune had VX purchased a 9 month old company, letís call it Spirit Deux operating Airbus 320s, with 250 pilots represented by ALPA?

Bugaboo
07-06-2018, 05:34 AM
Would you be singing the same tune had VX purchased a 9 month old company, letís call it Spirit Deux operating Airbus 320s, with 250 pilots represented by ALPA?
If my relative seniority remained the same the answer is yes. If im 40% on a list prior to an SLI, and im 40% afterwards, then I have no problem.

full of luv
07-06-2018, 10:03 AM
Would you be singing the same tune had VX purchased a 9 month old company, letís call it Spirit Deux operating Airbus 320s, with 250 pilots represented by ALPA?

EVERYONE would rather have organic growth of 250 pilots below them on the seniority list as the ideal option but in the ABSCENCE of that reality growing while maintaining your RELATIVE seniority still benefits said pilot with increased options of a larger company. :)

Work4life
07-06-2018, 09:32 PM
EVERYONE would rather have organic growth of 250 pilots below them on the seniority list as the ideal option but in the ABSCENCE of that reality growing while maintaining your RELATIVE seniority still benefits said pilot with increased options of a larger company. :)

I have no dog in this fight anymore since Iím no longer with Alaska but I disagree. Not a single ďoriginalĒ Alaska pilot benefited from this acquisition.

ShyGuy
07-06-2018, 10:52 PM
Where did you go?

symbian simian
07-07-2018, 07:36 AM
I have no dog in this fight anymore since I’m no longer with Alaska but I disagree. Not a single “original” Alaska pilot benefited from this acquisition.

The benefit comes from taking a successful competitor, that was growing right in your backyard, out of the running, and (for those of you who don't/can't/won't believe VA was successful) preventing a JB/VA merger that would have really hurt your future.

MiLtoMajor123
07-07-2018, 07:41 AM
EVERYONE would rather have organic growth of 250 pilots below them on the seniority list as the ideal option but in the ABSCENCE of that reality growing while maintaining your RELATIVE seniority still benefits said pilot with increased options of a larger company. :)

Yes! Someone gets it....What if Alaska just wanted more SFO gates to dominate the west coast and at the same time stave off any pilot shortage problems by "merging" with VX? If AS just slowly shrinks VX and absorbs it's pilot group without actual growth....then relative seniority means nothing. If nothing changes and there is no growth...then you have to rely on Pilot retirements. So yes...we all pray for growth....but what happens when there is none?

KnockKnock
07-07-2018, 07:51 AM
I have no dog in this fight anymore since Iím no longer with Alaska but I disagree. Not a single ďoriginalĒ Alaska pilot benefited from this acquisition.
I’m an “original” Alaska guy and I don’t think the company did this merger to “benefit” either pilot group. We were all left off the list of reasons to pull the acquisition trigger. I hope to look back in a couple years and see the benefit was adding 800 fighters that helped us raise the bar.

Work4life
07-07-2018, 07:53 AM
Where did you go?

1 of big 3.

Slim6890
07-07-2018, 08:19 AM
1 of big 3.
Lucky you and Congrats!!!!!

Jetlife
07-07-2018, 03:46 PM
Would you be singing the same tune had VX purchased a 9 month old company, letís call it Spirit Deux operating Airbus 320s, with 250 pilots represented by ALPA?

I wanna see the legacy Alaska pilots still hold onto the notion of stapling the acquired pilot group to the bottom of the list, when somebody like DAL or SWA buys us. How many will change their tune?

MusicPilot
07-07-2018, 04:59 PM
I wanna see the legacy Alaska pilots still hold onto the notion of stapling the acquired pilot group to the bottom of the list, when somebody like DAL or SWA buys us. How many will change their tune?

Iíd be really careful with that notion if I was you. Ask Airways East, who was basically bought by smaller younger carrier AW. They had the same notion and Nicolau penalized them for that.

waterboy
07-08-2018, 12:22 AM
I have no dog in this fight anymore since Iím no longer with Alaska but I disagree. Not a single ďoriginalĒ Alaska pilot benefited from this acquisition.

So no one at Alaska commutes from the bay area? not a "single" one, who may now be able to live in base?

The VX side (at least on this message board) complain about how their QOL and schedules will be severely suffer due to the merger for a myriad of reasons. But I believe the reason why VX had such good schedules was the type of flying. A large majority of VX's flights were of the productive transcon variety as opposed to multi leg, north/south flying. With all the transcon flying going to the Boeing, I can see at least "one" AS legacy pilot having a better schedule when this merger is all said and done.



Iím an ďoriginalĒ Alaska guy and I donít think the company did this merger to ďbenefitĒ either pilot group. We were all left off the list of reasons to pull the acquisition trigger. I hope to look back in a couple years and see the benefit was adding 800 fighters that helped us raise the bar.

Great post. Thank you.