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View Full Version : Southwest Hiring Freeze?


Thunder1
06-29-2018, 10:30 AM
Just saw this posting on the union website.....seems to be credible.
Anyone here know anything?

http://forum.swapa.org/filedata/fetch?photoid=647510


WHACKMASTER
06-29-2018, 11:09 AM
Oh boy. If true and another force majeure event hasnít happened (which it hasnít), then Iím thinking another merger/acquisition thatís just been agreed to.

Thunder1
06-29-2018, 11:12 AM
Whack,
I hope you are wrong on the merger talk.

But, if the hiring freeze is true then in my opinion it is either one of two things:
1 -Merger
2- The FAA safety audit that was just announced is going to cause the FAA to delay our ETOPS certification and all that Hawaii flying that we have been hiring for is still a long ways away..


trip
06-29-2018, 11:22 AM
Whack,
I hope you are wrong on the merger talk.

But, if the hiring freeze is true then in my opinion it is either one of two things:
1 -Merger
2- The FAA safety audit that was just announced is going to cause the FAA to delay our ETOPS certification and all that Hawaii flying that we have been hiring for is still a long ways away..

Neither are good scenarios. I can't see it being AK unless they get the Airbuses for free or an option offload them?

WHACKMASTER
06-29-2018, 11:28 AM
Neither are good scenarios. I can't see it being AK unless they get the Airbuses for free or an option offload them?

The ďoffloadĒ option was being discussed with AA a while back. Quote, ďOur Airbuses for some of their B737sĒ.

I was thinking they meant Spirit but perhaps itís ALA.

Source: NOT a flight attendant or my cousinís roommateís dog.

trip
06-29-2018, 01:01 PM
Thereís also the issue of what to with Horizon as thatís a part of Airgroup. Ah, itís fun to speculate anyway! Hope itís all for not and WN keeps on doing what they do.

WHACKMASTER
06-29-2018, 01:09 PM
Thereís also the issue of what to with Horizon as thatís a part of Airgroup. Ah, itís fun to speculate anyway! Hope itís all for not and WN keeps on doing what they do.

Keep the Q400s & have them run interisland Hawaii and/or TX two step to the smaller cities.

TogaParty
06-29-2018, 01:14 PM
What about all the 175s flying around in Alaska colors?

bodean
06-29-2018, 01:19 PM
What about all the 175s flying around in Alaska colors?



Republic will buy those.


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ZapBrannigan
06-29-2018, 01:21 PM
You guys need to take a deep breath and step away from your computers. Take a walk. Have a drink. Iím the most glass half empty person around and if IíM not concerned, you shouldnít be either.

Tapping the brakes is not reason for to fear the sky falling.


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WHACKMASTER
06-29-2018, 01:29 PM
What about all the 175s flying around in Alaska colors?

Thank goodness for good scope!

Woodbourne23
06-29-2018, 04:04 PM
New hire classes are full through September then itís contigent after that.

SimMonkey
06-29-2018, 04:38 PM
Maybe the FAA is requiring additional training for the ETOPS pilots and they need the sim slots?

PotatoChip
06-29-2018, 04:40 PM
New hire classes are full through September then itís contigent after that.

Thatís not what we were told at the Career Expo.

Bozo the pilot
06-29-2018, 04:54 PM
Maybe the FAA is requiring additional training for the ETOPS pilots and they need the sim slots?

Why not just buy Hal

WHACKMASTER
06-29-2018, 05:05 PM
Maybe the FAA is requiring additional training for the ETOPS pilots and they need the sim slots?

No offense but thatís silly. The companyís not going to shut down hiring across all departments because 100 pilots need some extra sim periods.

Something big is going on because I just canít believe a sudden company-wide hiring freeze is due to ďeconomic conditionsĒ because letís face it.....economic conditions are not that bad.

ZapBrannigan
06-29-2018, 05:12 PM
Theyíre not doing any ETOPS training (except for instructors and check airpeople) until thereís a bid for LAX.



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Ronin47
06-29-2018, 05:22 PM
Theyíre not doing any ETOPS training (except for instructors and check airpeople) until thereís a bid for LAX.



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The post is from SWAPA. Seems like this is someone just trying to rock the boat. No one on the inside of SWA has heard any of this BS. Lets all just take a deep breath and not be so gullible. Christ, everyone is freaking out like a bunch of teenage girls. Can someone with some credence from SWA verify this bologna? I was at the Meet and Greet last week and from what Rocky said they are loaded for bear for Hawaii Ops! The rest is this crap is just hyperbole!

Woodbourne23
06-29-2018, 06:28 PM
Thatís not what we were told at the Career Expo.

Just announced today by director of flight ops

Woodbourne23
06-29-2018, 06:30 PM
Just announced today by director of flight ops


Youíve probably seen that current oil prices are up over $70 per barrelócompared to around $50 at this time last year. This represents a material cost increase as fuel expense is approximately one-third of our cost structure. While we have a fuel hedging program that will help offset a portion of rising oil prices this year, we are reexamining the costs we can control to ensure we maintain prudent cost management today and beyond to protect our competitive cost position and our low fare leadership. Although you may have heard rumblings otherwise, weíre keeping our currently scheduled July Pilot interviews, weíre making contingent offers (with class dates to be confirmed at a later date), and our training classes are full through mid-September.

Fuseplug
06-29-2018, 06:32 PM
I was just at CQT earlier this month and they are already talking about tearing down the far wall on the BRAND NEW sim building to add six more bays. Something tells me growth isn’t slowing.

SimMonkey
06-29-2018, 06:33 PM
I heard its already funded...

SimMonkey
06-29-2018, 06:35 PM
No offense but thatís silly. The companyís not going to shut down hiring across all departments because 100 pilots need some extra sim periods.

Something big is going on because I just canít believe a sudden company-wide hiring freeze is due to ďeconomic conditionsĒ because letís face it.....economic conditions are not that bad.

Just saw the memo. I agree with you.

PotatoChip
06-29-2018, 06:51 PM
Good thing theyíre keeping the application window open until July 2nd!!

Fuseplug
06-29-2018, 07:12 PM
Good thing theyíre keeping the application window open until July 2nd!!

Is this true? Asking for a friend (seriously).

TurboDog
06-29-2018, 07:13 PM
There has been many articles written over the past month about how the capacity is down since the accident. I think the company expected bookings to slide about 1-3% afterwards, but it appears to be just a touch higher than that. Consumer confidence will rebound and I'm sure. So this and the Hawaii timeline put together and it's most likely that the company just doesn't want to get ahead of itself.

Laramie
06-30-2018, 02:09 AM
There has been many articles written over the past month about how the capacity is down since the accident. I think the company expected bookings to slide about 1-3% afterwards, but it appears to be just a touch higher than that. Consumer confidence will rebound and I'm sure. So this and the Hawaii timeline put together and it's most likely that the company just doesn't want to get ahead of itself.




To which accident do you refer?




What is your definition of capacity?




"I think" Neither you nor I get paid to think. Can you name the top three execs?

TurboDog
06-30-2018, 04:32 AM
To which accident do you refer?




What is your definition of capacity?




"I think" Neither you nor I get paid to think. Can you name the top three execs?


The accident with the catastrophic engine failure, which resulted in a passenger death.

Capacity = Bookings

Kelly, Nealon and Van De Ven.


A quick Google consult says fewer bookings and higher oil prices are the reason the company is slowing capacity expansion for the rest of the year.

http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/04/news/companies/southwest-bookings-fatal-accident/index.html





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Jeff Lebowski
06-30-2018, 06:25 AM
So how will this affect my six-year upgrade?

Smooth at FL450
06-30-2018, 06:57 AM
So how will this affect my six-year upgrade?


6 years 1 month

Salukidawg
06-30-2018, 07:15 AM
To all the haters on the SWA Hiring thread that told me I didnít know what I was talking about......:rolleyes:

RJSAviator76
06-30-2018, 07:44 AM
OK, I'll come out and say it...

If it's true that we're temporarily hitting the brakes on hiring, I for one, am happy to see that. We need to catch up on upgrades as we are way out of balance in some bases.

The reason I say 'if it's true...' is because I can't find that memo on SWALife anywhere; there's no date on that memo, or any date; AK's email yesterday seemed vague with regards to hiring.

Hopefully, no merger on the horizon...

Salukidawg
06-30-2018, 08:02 AM
AKís email didnít completely say that we arenít running new hire classes past mid September, but it was pretty damn close. I agree with Whackmaster that an M & A event is most likely on the horizon again. Iíve said since they built that new training center that a lot of new Sims doesnít necessarily mean theyíre only for organic growth. As much as Iíd like to believe it is, Iíve been around this place long enough to know better. Blue horseshoe LUVS Alaska Airlines.

Typhoondiver
06-30-2018, 08:16 AM
My buddy just said that Delta has a hiring freeze for two months. Can anybody confirm that through another source (i.e., buddy at Delta).
That would hint towards a more industry wide tapping the brakes on capacity growth.

Bozo the pilot
06-30-2018, 08:24 AM
AKís email didnít completely say that we arenít running new hire classes past mid September, but it was pretty damn close. I agree with Whackmaster that an M & A event is most likely on the horizon again. Iíve said since they built that new training center that a lot of new Sims doesnít necessarily mean theyíre only for organic growth. As much as Iíd like to believe it is, Iíve been around this place long enough to know better. Blue horseshoe LUVS Alaska Airlines.

Absolutely luv what you did there. ;)

Skyward
06-30-2018, 09:17 AM
I wasnít on property for the AirTran deal. Did SWA slow or freeze hiring (if they were hiring) before that was announced? Also was the 717 deal with DAL worked out before it was announced?

If so....

SWA freezes hiring + DAL maybe found an additional 20+ 717ís according to the DAL forum = HAL + a whole lot of hmmmm

Fuseplug
06-30-2018, 09:46 AM
SWA freezes hiring + DAL maybe found an additional 20+ 717ís according to the DAL forum = HAL + a whole lot of hmmmm

So how long to hold a line on the A330 out of MDW?

ZapBrannigan
06-30-2018, 09:50 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180630/6f379a2fd5a6809ff2b396271dffcf09.gif


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e6bpilot
06-30-2018, 10:15 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180630/6f379a2fd5a6809ff2b396271dffcf09.gif


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Exactly. We are still running classes through at least September and have committed to the July round of interviews with job offers which will fill another month or two of classes.
If anyone with a bit of sense in their head looks at our numbers right now personnel wise, you can see that we are heavy on the FO side and lagging a bit on the captain side. If there is any slowing in hiring, we will still be around 800 for the year, which is still above the original target number. The fact that we have tons of reserves sitting during the summer is atypical and cannot be lost on the bean counters. Whatever we are hiring for is coming, I suspect in the same slow, unannounced way that we have grown for the last few years.
Zero chance there is a merger/acquisition on the horizon. Anyone who wants to put some money on that can send me a PM. If airline stock prices start to slide in a major way, then maybe....but not now.

PotatoChip
06-30-2018, 10:21 AM
Why have a major Career Expo and extend the application window only to freeze hiring days later?? Seems like if it was simply because there were too many FOs they wouldn’t have done these things. Seems more like everyone in the company was blindsided by this.

Icaruss
06-30-2018, 12:27 PM
Are classes already full in August? How many will there be offered?

at6d
06-30-2018, 01:08 PM
I thought SWA always slows down hiring in early summer to gauge needs for the remainder of the year?

PotatoChip
06-30-2018, 02:43 PM
I thought SWA always slows down hiring in early summer to gauge needs for the remainder of the year?

ďSlows downĒ is different then a sudden ďhiring freezeĒ after a Career Fair.

Gen On
06-30-2018, 03:09 PM
My buddy just said that Delta has a hiring freeze for two months. Can anybody confirm that through another source (i.e., buddy at Delta).
That would hint towards a more industry wide tapping the brakes on capacity growth.

True statement...

Smooth at FL450
06-30-2018, 03:17 PM
My buddy just said that Delta has a hiring freeze for two months. Can anybody confirm that through another source (i.e., buddy at Delta).
That would hint towards a more industry wide tapping the brakes on capacity growth.


Reference the company memo dated June 5, 2018, Re: Refining our Hiring and Staffing Plan sent out by their SVP-Flight Operations

squirtinvert
06-30-2018, 03:45 PM
Exactly. We are still running classes through at least September and have committed to the July round of interviews with job offers which will fill another month or two of classes.
If anyone with a bit of sense in their head looks at our numbers right now personnel wise, you can see that we are heavy on the FO side and lagging a bit on the captain side. If there is any slowing in hiring, we will still be around 800 for the year, which is still above the original target number. The fact that we have tons of reserves sitting during the summer is atypical and cannot be lost on the bean counters. Whatever we are hiring for is coming, I suspect in the same slow, unannounced way that we have grown for the last few years.
Zero chance there is a merger/acquisition on the horizon. Anyone who wants to put some money on that can send me a PM. If airline stock prices start to slide in a major way, then maybe....but not now.


^^^This is pretty spot on. When I went for FO leadership in Jan and they said this was going to happen at the tail end of the year for various reasons. I recently went back to Dallas and this was reiterated. They are worrying about ETOPS right now, and will have 2019 CQT validation to focus on shortly. Being fat on reserves/booking down/gas/economy concerns all give reason for a short pause. Now if this goes to months and months, I might start getting worried.

flygirl556
07-01-2018, 10:01 AM
Merger/acquisition? Realistically I donít think the DOJ would ever allow that.

Smooth at FL450
07-01-2018, 10:28 AM
Merger/acquisition? Realistically I donít think the DOJ would ever allow that.


you watch the news, right? A few weeks ago, I might have agreed with you. After AT&T/Time Warner was approved, all bets are off and the flood gates are open. Disney/Fox is next on deck...

e6bpilot
07-01-2018, 11:07 AM
M&A absolutely ainít gonna happen. It would be way too expensive and would be foolish both in economics and capacity. I know pilots love to talk about it, but this just is not the time or the place for such an event.
DOJ aside, look at Alaska right now if you want to see what happens when you pay way too much for an airline (I truly believe Alaska did this as a survival tactic for various reasons) and then all of the sudden the ďsynergiesĒ donít show up when you thought they would.
Now cast that in the super conservative, low cost mold that the SWA BOD has made all of their decisions over the last few decades. All of their acquisitions have been either fringe players, on the cheap, or both.
Next downturn I would expect it. Right now, no way.

hoover
07-01-2018, 12:30 PM
I'll put a dollar on Alaska or a sw discounted beer domestic only.

Woodbourne23
07-01-2018, 02:37 PM
Exactly. We are still running classes through at least September and have committed to the July round of interviews with job offers which will fill another month or two of classes.
If anyone with a bit of sense in their head looks at our numbers right now personnel wise, you can see that we are heavy on the FO side and lagging a bit on the captain side. If there is any slowing in hiring, we will still be around 800 for the year, which is still above the original target number. The fact that we have tons of reserves sitting during the summer is atypical and cannot be lost on the bean counters. Whatever we are hiring for is coming, I suspect in the same slow, unannounced way that we have grown for the last few years.
Zero chance there is a merger/acquisition on the horizon. Anyone who wants to put some money on that can send me a PM. If airline stock prices start to slide in a major way, then maybe....but not now..

Someone decided that the way to curb the premium budget, which was $200 million over last summer, was to over hire. Unfortunately, no one told Crew Planning to upgrade more. Look at the discrepancy between captain and fo premium this week. Genius!

symbian simian
07-01-2018, 02:52 PM
The accident with the catastrophic engine failure, which resulted in a passenger death.

Capacity = Bookings

Kelly, Nealon and Van De Ven.


A quick Google consult says fewer bookings and higher oil prices are the reason the company is slowing capacity expansion for the rest of the year.

Southwest bookings fall after fatal accident (http://money.cnn.com/2018/06/04/news/companies/southwest-bookings-fatal-accident/index.html)





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Not trying to be a duck, but capacity=/=bookings, because bookings/capacity=loadfactor (approximately)

e6bpilot
07-01-2018, 03:36 PM
.



Someone decided that the way to curb the premium budget, which was $200 million over last summer, was to over hire. Unfortunately, no one told Crew Planning to upgrade more. Look at the discrepancy between captain and fo premium this week. Genius!



I have heard the same theory but I donít buy it. The cost to pay premium is peanuts compared to hiring the extra bodies to cover that flying.
The FO vs CA discrepancy is ridiculous right now. Take a look at open time awards and see how that is playing out for them.

Burton78
07-01-2018, 03:54 PM
I have heard the same theory but I donít buy it. The cost to pay premium is peanuts compared to hiring the extra bodies to cover that flying.
The FO vs CA discrepancy is ridiculous right now. Take a look at open time awards and see how that is playing out for them.



Agreed. The conspiracy theory of ďover hiringĒ to reduce premium is some serious tinfoil logic. I think things will be seen a little more clearly after The LAX base opens and Hawaii flying commences.

Burton78
07-01-2018, 03:55 PM
Filler........

Speaks3703
07-02-2018, 02:29 PM
It seems like the people who are all saying there's NO WAY a merger is on the horizon are ignoring the nature of the hiring freeze. This is NOT a pilot hiring freeze--it's a hiring freeze across the majority of departments, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO pilots. This is not the result of an imbalance of CAs to FOs, or even of poor crew planning overall, because it's not specific to crew.

As far as capacity is concerned, remember that the number of available seats in the fleet is still below where it was before the -300s were parked early. The -800/MAX8 deliveries have yet to bring the number back to where it was in 2016, which isn't targeted until next year. The long-term plan was to operate the -300 and -MAX8 concurrently to prevent that loss in overall capacity, but obviously that plan needed to change. SWA is still operating below target capacity.

And then there's the ETOPS question. SWA is definitely behind where they were hoping to be. The intent was to start Hawaii service in November with the schedule released in May, but the company is not confident that it will have the certification ready to go by then, which is why they didn't pull the trigger when the schedule was extended. The aircraft for Hawaii service have already been set aside in the fleet plan and will be available from November for additions to the schedule once certification is obtained, but there is a very real chance that will take more time than budgeted.

As M&A are concerned, there is only one US carrier that can even begin to make sense as a possible target, and I assure you it isn't Alaska. Do not discount the possibility of an acquisition play for Sun Country. It is the only 100% 737NG fleet left, and at 23 frames it's the perfect step to augment the lost capacity from the -300 fleet (including new deliveries taken since then). And they have some other useful assets as well, including half of the same terminal SWA uses in MSP; slots and gates in HNL, SEA, PDX, SFO, SAN, SJD, PVR, CUN, MSY, RSW, and BOS; and an easy path to integrate service into additional markets that SWA would appreciate like CZM, STT, SXM, and maybe even ANC. All of this rolled up into a relatively small package that can be easily bought outright (all-cash), wouldn't raise too many political eyebrows, and comes with some potentially useful employees and an extra reservation center up north.

Oh, and did I mention that Sun Country already has ETOPS certification?? That sure would make it easier to get those ongoing issues ironed out, wouldn't it?

Bonam
07-02-2018, 03:16 PM
Are both classes in August (14 and 28) still on track or were affected by the hiring freeze?

CA1900
07-02-2018, 03:31 PM
Are both classes in August (14 and 28) still on track or were affected by the hiring freeze?

Everybody in the pipeline (classes, interviews) is still going as scheduled.

tacamoflyer
07-02-2018, 04:25 PM
Deleted........

PiperPower
07-02-2018, 05:19 PM
Oh, and did I mention that Sun Country already has ETOPS certification?? That sure would make it easier to get those ongoing issues ironed out, wouldn't it?

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't think ETOPS programs are just inherited like that. From what I understand, an ETOPS program is approved for that specific carrier. So if Sun Country becomes SWA and no longer existed, the ETOPS program would also cease to exist until SWA went through their own certification process.
Maybe that's not necessarily what you meant by "getting those ongoing issues ironed out" ... Maybe you just meant it would help get the ball rolling; which I agree, it probably wouldn't hurt.

I think the biggest issue with an SY acquisition, is that SY was literally just sold to one of the largest private equity firms in the world just a mere few months ago. I highly doubt their plan was to flip the airline after less than 6 months of ownership. But, who knows. Anything is possible.

PotatoChip
07-02-2018, 05:24 PM
I think the biggest issue with an SY acquisition, is that SY was literally just sold to one of the largest private equity firms in the world just a mere few months ago. I highly doubt their plan was to flip the airline after less than 6 months of ownership. But, who knows. Anything is possible.

Small potatoes, but it was sold last year, seven months ago. Seems possible.

utahpilot
07-02-2018, 07:28 PM
from a sr. CKAM, take it FWIW


said that if the mechanics don't pass their TA then Hawaii won't happen til next year sometime. We've been gearing up for it to happen this year.

So, that plus oil prices, bookings down, already overstaffed= 'let's slow down a bit and see what happens'

ROFF
07-02-2018, 10:18 PM
How would a ratified TA have any influence on certification?

Saying so implies that since they donít have a ratified contract they are somehow not performing to standard, something that would have an affect on the entire operation and not just ETOPS.

Super EZ E
07-02-2018, 10:37 PM
Booking are off 18% to 28% depending whom you talk to. SWA attributed these number to the 737 PHL bad press and lawsuit. Add higher fuel to the equation and things aren't the best for SWA and 800 plus 737's right now. They've been lucky for a long time... I sure in the hell wouldn't bank on the Hawaii market to save the day. It's not that profitable.

Burton78
07-03-2018, 12:11 AM
Booking are off 18% to 28% depending whom you talk to. SWA attributed these number to the 737 PHL bad press and lawsuit. Add higher fuel to the equation and things aren't the best for SWA and 800 plus 737's right now. They've been lucky for a long time... I sure in the hell wouldn't bank on the Hawaii market to save the day. It's not that profitable.



I donít know about all that. Pretty much every flight Iíve worked for the past few months have been packed.


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ANGFlight81
07-03-2018, 01:47 AM
Booking are off 18% to 28% depending whom you talk to. SWA attributed these number to the 737 PHL bad press and lawsuit. Add higher fuel to the equation and things aren't the best for SWA and 800 plus 737's right now. They've been lucky for a long time... I sure in the hell wouldn't bank on the Hawaii market to save the day. It's not that profitable.

Where did you get this info from? Some of it is entertaining.

tanker
07-03-2018, 02:51 AM
How would a ratified TA have any influence on certification?

Saying so implies that since they donít have a ratified contract they are somehow not performing to standard, something that would have an affect on the entire operation and not just ETOPS.

Having a ratified TA isnít going to have any influence on ETOPS certification. A ratified TA will allow Southwest to outsource ETOPS maintenance in Hawaii. Without a ratified TA Southwest will have to use Southwest mechanics for ETOPS in Hawaii.

Super EZ E
07-03-2018, 04:53 AM
Where did you get this info from? Some of it is entertaining.

My College buddy has been at SWA since 97 and holds CP title so I asked a few questions because another good friend was down there for the pilot expo and needs a job. He also said they have bumped the staffing levels up 15%. I guess in the past the "jet bridge junior manning" was out of control. He said "Every SWA pilot knows during the summer months you're on reserve @ SWA." This is referencing line holders. He said right now they are fat on pilots. Take it for what it's worth.

Loon
07-03-2018, 05:12 AM
Booking are off 18% to 28% depending whom you talk to. SWA attributed these number to the 737 PHL bad press and lawsuit. Add higher fuel to the equation and things aren't the best for SWA and 800 plus 737's right now. They've been lucky for a long time... I sure in the hell wouldn't bank on the Hawaii market to save the day. It's not that profitable.

Lad, there is no such thing as "bad press".
SWA pulled ALL ads after the incident, which led to lower than normal bookings.

GreatStory
07-03-2018, 05:36 AM
Booking are off 18% to 28% depending whom you talk to. SWA attributed these number to the 737 PHL bad press and lawsuit. Add higher fuel to the equation and things aren't the best for SWA and 800 plus 737's right now. They've been lucky for a long time... I sure in the hell wouldn't bank on the Hawaii market to save the day. It's not that profitable.

haha, you work at spirit. also know as the "worst airline in the world" This is all just blabber from the banana.

ANGFlight81
07-03-2018, 06:00 AM
My College buddy has been at SWA since 97 and holds CP title so I asked a few questions because another good friend was down there for the pilot expo and needs a job. He also said they have bumped the staffing levels up 15%. I guess in the past the "jet bridge junior manning" was out of control. He said "Every SWA pilot knows during the summer months you're on reserve @ SWA." This is referencing line holders. He said right now they are fat on pilots. Take it for what it's worth.

Interesting.

1. We donít have 800+ aircraft (think itís closer to low 700 right now)

2. Bookings are down 1-3% according to whatís released to the board (check Fidelity or any financial site for that matter)

3. Staffing is slightly fat due to Hawaii, (it takes roughly 5-6 months from interview to online and done with training).

Iím only a line pilot...you donít have a friend thatís a CP giving you this info.

Flame on man

ROFF
07-03-2018, 07:06 AM
Bumped the staffing up 15%

Thatís funny

FNGFO
07-03-2018, 08:41 AM
haha, you work at spirit. also know as the "worst airline in the world" This is all just blabber from the banana.

How does any of that tripe invalidate his post? Seriously?

He may be full of it or poorly informed, but his place of employment doesnít keep him from knowing a CP at SWA.

BTW, an employee of SWA might have the self awareness to not throw shade at upstart, low cost carriers bringing new business models to the industry.

ANGFlight81
07-03-2018, 08:46 AM
How does any of that tripe invalidate his post? Seriously?

He may be full of it or poorly informed, but his place of employment doesnít keep him from knowing a CP at SWA.

BTW, an employee of SWA might have the self awareness to not throw shade at upstart, low cost carriers bringing new business models to the industry.

Hey may very well know a CP at SWA, but heís not getting info from him as the info he presented was bogus.

FNGFO
07-03-2018, 08:54 AM
Hey may very well know a CP at SWA, but heís not getting info from him as the info he presented was bogus.

Thatís fine. Say that then.

ANGFlight81
07-03-2018, 08:59 AM
Thatís fine. Say that then.

Uh, scroll up to my previous post...

FNGFO
07-03-2018, 09:03 AM
Uh, scroll up to my previous post...

I was referring to the individual who chose to refute the OPís post with ďyou donít work here.Ē

Ivana Humpalot
07-03-2018, 09:30 AM
What's taking soooooo long to get approval? Got the planes and it's no big deal to train the crews. What's the delay?:mad:

MasterOfPuppets
07-03-2018, 09:43 AM
What's taking soooooo long to get approval? Got the planes and it's no big deal to train the crews. What's the delay?:mad:

Itís signifigantly more than having airplanes with ETOPS written on the gear doors......especially when your airline is building ETOPS from the ground up.

ZapBrannigan
07-03-2018, 10:31 AM
It take time to...

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Bobby
07-03-2018, 10:46 AM
It take time to...

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6gE9BYreSsQyOD9C/giphy.gif


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3771



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Caveman
07-03-2018, 10:58 AM
What's taking soooooo long to get approval? Got the planes and it's no big deal to train the crews. What's the delay?:mad:

I heard that tug driver training not going as smoothly as anticipated

http://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/StabilizedNASA_GIF.gif

Smokey23
07-03-2018, 12:38 PM
Has any airline obtained ETOPS certification for the LEAP engine yet? If not, then that could very well be the long pole in the tent.

Super EZ E
07-03-2018, 01:15 PM
RELAX, I might be 100% wrong, my mistake thought we were have a normal conversation. As APC goes everything turns into an attack. I think we've all seen the emails floating around about hiring so I called my buddy, that's about it. Hope the hiring door stays open and I'll hold my private conversation from APC. :cool:

Proximity
07-03-2018, 01:17 PM
Has any airline obtained ETOPS certification for the LEAP engine yet? If not, then that could very well be the long pole in the tent.

The LEAP has nothing to do with ETOPS, Southwest is starting with the NG aircraft.

Proximity
07-03-2018, 01:18 PM
RELAX, I might be 100% wrong, my mistake thought we were have a normal conversation.

It's just that everything you posted was ludicrous and/or incorrect.

Other then that, good post.

Jeff Lebowski
07-03-2018, 01:32 PM
It take time to...

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6gE9BYreSsQyOD9C/giphy.gif


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Is that the same guy who developed our VNAV and Class II?

ANGFlight81
07-03-2018, 01:35 PM
It's just that everything you posted was ludicrous and/or incorrect.

Other then that, good post.

LOL! Exactly!!!

Ivana Humpalot
07-03-2018, 04:45 PM
Our guys reinventing the wheel? I'll bet it didn't take UA,AA. DAL, Sun this long to get ETOPS approval. There has got to be people that can be hired to get the program approved. Do a few proving runs and you're good to go.

WHACKMASTER
07-03-2018, 06:07 PM
Our guys reinventing the wheel? I'll bet it didn't take UA,AA. DAL, Sun this long to get ETOPS approval. There has got to be people that can be hired to get the program approved. Do a few proving runs and you're good to go.

Yeah, well you know not the way ďwe do it here at SWĒ. Seems like most everything needs to be over complicated and bastardized.

Opakapaka
07-03-2018, 07:04 PM
What's taking soooooo long to get approval? Got the planes and it's no big deal to train the crews. What's the delay?:mad:
No airline has ever gotten ETOPS approval from the feds in less than a year. Just sayin

Opakapaka
07-03-2018, 07:08 PM
Our guys reinventing the wheel? I'll bet it didn't take UA,AA. DAL, Sun this long to get ETOPS approval. There has got to be people that can be hired to get the program approved. Do a few proving runs and you're good to go.
Ok, you have no idea whatís entailed in ETOPS certification.

Maintenance is one of the biggest hurdles. And a couple proving runs wonít do it.

Super EZ E
07-03-2018, 07:19 PM
It's just that everything you posted was ludicrous and/or incorrect.

Other then that, good post.

Since you just had to go there, I guess being a line guy you've got it all figured out. Next time check with Gary Kelly and your own SWA website. BTW maybe even a CP! This is from SWA earning report and Gary Kelly! Those are big numbers. Plus oil prices are moving up and those cost are unreported. Good luck!


The Company expects its sub-optimal flight schedule to continue to pressure yields in second quarter. Based on current bookings and revenue trends, the Company expects second quarter 2018 RASM to decrease in the one to three percent range, compared with second quarter 2017 RASM of 14.27 cents, as recast. Approximately one to two points of this estimated decrease is attributable to recent softness in bookings following the Flight 1380 accident.

Proximity
07-03-2018, 08:07 PM
Since you just had to go there, I guess being a line guy you've got it all figured out.

I have issue with you spreading FUD.

Sure RASM is down 1-3%.

However, the sky is not falling.

Southwest will no doubt still turn a huge profit even though some metrics will be down this quarter due to some issues. We can all read about it when the report comes out end of this month.

The long term future is bright. Many airplanes on order, ahead of the pilot shortage curve with all the hiring they've done, very little debt, and a huge investment has been made in new terminals and our new training facility.

There is reason to be optimistic about Contract 2020. SWAPA cleaned house after TA1. While relations with management aren't as amiable as in the past, now everyone knows where they stand. Several competitors with low paid pilots such as Spirit and Allegiant have brought their pay up recently. AA and UA will likely sign contracts before us thus raising the bar even higher when it's our turn.

If there is a economic downturn or higher fuel prices, Southwest is well positioned to ride it out.

HI flying is not about making money, it's about protecting our market share on the west coast, now that one of our big competitors out there does many HI flights.

The shocking thing about this whole thread is that not one post proves the title "Southwest Hiring Freeze". For now pilot hiring continues, and no announcement about a hiring freeze has been made by the company to it's employees or the press. Even if this freeze is real, it's still not a big deal. 2200+ pilots have been hired since 2015. More pilots have been hired at SWA in this wave then total pilots at airlines such as Alaska, Spirit, and Hawaiian. Even if hiring for 2018 ends in September, this year will still have brought on around 600 pilots, still a big year.

There is a reason why thousands of pilots are trying to get on here, and a blip in hiring isn't going to deter them.

Super EZ E
07-04-2018, 03:24 AM
$75 oil has every Airline freaking out. ~$63 was April Spot price. :eek:

jetliner1526
07-04-2018, 06:07 AM
Just saw this posting on the union website.....seems to be credible.
Anyone here know anything?

http://forum.swapa.org/filedata/fetch?photoid=647510

Can we see the full memo?

jetliner1526
07-04-2018, 06:11 AM
Whether or not the memo is legit the following was posted back on May 29:

New Experience for SWA Job Seekers
By Greg Muccio
May 29, 2018 at 1:30 PM
In the first half of 2018, we have welcomed 2,300 Cohearts to our Southwest Family, with plans to hire 5,500 more by the end of the year. As our hiring needs continue to grow, so do the hiring needs of many other companies around the country. Factor in a low unemployment rate, and hiring competition is fierce.

Weíre fortunate to have a strong Employer brand; many people want to work at Southwest Airlines. But as you know, we spend a significant amount of time to ensure weíre attracting and hiring the right People. In the spirit of ďnever resting on our laurels,Ē we needed to evolve our candidate experience to continue to set Southwest apart and attract top talent. We partnered with a cutting edge website development team to transform our online Southwest job search and application experience. Weíre proud to share the new site with you today: Careers.SouthwestAir.com.

For now, all of us who are fortunate enough to work at Southwest will continue to explore new opportunities and apply for through SWALife at My Life >Careers >Job Postings >Search Job Postings. But, I thought youíd appreciate the opportunity to see what your friends and Family who are considering a career at Southwest will experience. Please continue to encourage the great folks you know to apply here and sign up for job alerts if the position they want isnít currently available. You are the face of our Company, and can help ensure we hire the best.

-----
Many companies are shrinking by the thousands and SWA has plans to hire an additional 5500 by the end of the year. Where are we putting this many employees?

HalinTexas
07-04-2018, 07:10 AM
Why not just buy Hal

I'm not for sale.

Salukidawg
07-04-2018, 07:23 AM
I'm not for sale.

Just name your price my friend.:D

Fuseplug
07-04-2018, 07:09 PM
I have issue with you spreading FUD.

Sure RASM is down 1-3%.

However, the sky is not falling.

Southwest will no doubt still turn a huge profit even though some metrics will be down this quarter due to some issues. We can all read about it when the report comes out end of this month.

The long term future is bright. Many airplanes on order, ahead of the pilot shortage curve with all the hiring they've done, very little debt, and a huge investment has been made in new terminals and our new training facility.

There is reason to be optimistic about Contract 2020. SWAPA cleaned house after TA1. While relations with management aren't as amiable as in the past, now everyone knows where they stand. Several competitors with low paid pilots such as Spirit and Allegiant have brought their pay up recently. AA and UA will likely sign contracts before us thus raising the bar even higher when it's our turn.

If there is a economic downturn or higher fuel prices, Southwest is well positioned to ride it out.

HI flying is not about making money, it's about protecting our market share on the west coast, now that one of our big competitors out there does many HI flights.

The shocking thing about this whole thread is that not one post proves the title "Southwest Hiring Freeze". For now pilot hiring continues, and no announcement about a hiring freeze has been made by the company to it's employees or the press. Even if this freeze is real, it's still not a big deal. 2200+ pilots have been hired since 2015. More pilots have been hired at SWA in this wave then total pilots at airlines such as Alaska, Spirit, and Hawaiian. Even if hiring for 2018 ends in September, this year will still have brought on around 600 pilots, still a big year.

There is a reason why thousands of pilots are trying to get on here, and a blip in hiring isn't going to deter them.

Bravo. Most coherent thoughts I've read on this topic in the last week. The SWAPA forum went full-stupid on this topic rather quickly..

Skyward
07-04-2018, 09:10 PM
The SWAPA forum went full-stupid on this topic rather quickly..

Yeah, turned into a TA1 vs TA2 spittiní match pretty quick.

ROFF
07-04-2018, 10:35 PM
The SWAPA forum. Ugh.

Everything is a conspiracy.

Warhawg01
07-04-2018, 10:56 PM
Bravo. Most coherent thoughts I've read on this topic in the last week. The SWAPA forum went full-stupid on this topic rather quickly..

ďThis topic...Ē As opposed to all the other ones that are the epitome of measured discourse?

Get Real
07-05-2018, 01:29 PM
there is reason to be optimistic about contract 2020. Swapa cleaned house after ta1. While relations with management aren't as amiable as in the past, now everyone knows where they stand.


dumbest quote ever

Ispeakjive
07-06-2018, 06:04 AM
Ok, you have no idea whatís entailed in ETOPS certification.

Maintenance is one of the biggest hurdles. And a couple proving runs wonít do it.

Duh. It's the stickers, dude. It ain't ETOPS unless you've got a sticker on the nose wheel.

howardhughes8
07-07-2018, 05:31 AM
Southwest is a GREAT job, great company, no doubt. However, they have been hiring gamgbusters for the last few years, it is simply inevitable hiring will stop or at least slow down. Going to a job counting on open ended growth to move up a seniority list is a very risky proposition.

The only legacy that will provide the fastest movement going forward is AA, simply because they are retiring so many people, 700-900 a year, that is a huge number, and they havenít been hiring like Delta and Southwest the last couple of years (no personal opinion on the job itself, simply retirements and movement). I have not been able to get hard numbers on United.

ZapBrannigan
07-07-2018, 08:56 AM
Southwest is a GREAT job, great company, no doubt. However, they have been hiring gamgbusters for the last few years, it is simply inevitable hiring will stop or at least slow down. Going to a job counting on open ended growth to move up a seniority list is a very risky proposition.



The only legacy that will provide the fastest movement going forward is AA, simply because they are retiring so many people, 700-900 a year, that is a huge number, and they havenít been hiring like Delta and Southwest the last couple of years (no personal opinion on the job itself, simply retirements and movement). I have not been able to get hard numbers on United.



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SWA
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Boondoggle
07-07-2018, 10:46 AM
Does anyone have a breakdown on the number of pilots hired by each of those airlines over the last few years? The retirement numbers are insightful, but it seems like some companies have led the wave and boosted their numbers significantly over the last few years.

Fuseplug
07-07-2018, 11:17 AM
FWIW, since the last “pause” in hiring (Oct ‘14 to July ‘15), there have been 2,135 pilots added to the SWA’s seniority list. That’s just a snapshot and does not include attrition.

Woodbourne23
07-07-2018, 12:22 PM
Does anyone have a breakdown on the number of pilots hired by each of those airlines over the last few years? The retirement numbers are insightful, but it seems like some companies have led the wave and boosted their numbers significantly over the last few years.
Hers is people still on list by year for WN

2018 ytd-402
2017-877
2016-555
2015-305
2014-329
2013-37

Proximity
07-07-2018, 10:32 PM
Does anyone have a breakdown on the number of pilots hired by each of those airlines over the last few years? The retirement numbers are insightful, but it seems like some companies have led the wave and boosted their numbers significantly over the last few years.

More interesting at Southwest would be how the ratio of pilots to aircraft has increased in the last 2-3 years. Everyone hired so far has benefited from that.

Stitches
07-08-2018, 05:52 AM
More interesting at Southwest would be how the ratio of pilots to aircraft has increased in the last 2-3 years. Everyone hired so far has benefited from that.

Pilots to block hours is the ratio youíre really looking for.

Ineedabrew
07-09-2018, 04:55 PM
Looks like the hiring frenzy has come to a stop here.....

Proximity
07-09-2018, 05:38 PM
Looks like the hiring frenzy has come to a stop here.....

It has? 26 pilots starting tomorrow. First of three classes to run this month.

e6bpilot
07-09-2018, 06:33 PM
It has? 26 pilots starting tomorrow. First of three classes to run this month.



No, darn it! Doom and gloom! 5 years of Oakland reserve! My money!!!l

Ineedabrew
07-09-2018, 07:01 PM
Looks like the hiring frenzy has come to a stop here.....

Ha! Just glad got out of ASA/Express Jet in time!!! Whew!

mwmav8r01
08-07-2018, 07:26 PM
Ha! Just glad got out of ASA/Express Jet in time!!! Whew!


I have friends that just got emails for September interviews. So seems like things are moving. Maybe not as fast, but moving.

ecam
08-08-2018, 07:52 AM
M&A absolutely ainít gonna happen. It would be way too expensive and would be foolish both in economics and capacity. I know pilots love to talk about it, but this just is not the time or the place for such an event.
DOJ aside, look at Alaska right now if you want to see what happens when you pay way too much for an airline (I truly believe Alaska did this as a survival tactic for various reasons) and then all of the sudden the ďsynergiesĒ donít show up when you thought they would.
Now cast that in the super conservative, low cost mold that the SWA BOD has made all of their decisions over the last few decades. All of their acquisitions have been either fringe players, on the cheap, or both.
Next downturn I would expect it. Right now, no way.

Allegiant has also stopped hiring. It was supposed to be until this fall because of the MD88 retirements, but management just announced last week that it's indefinite.

Allegiant is definitely a fringe player (but competitor), and SWA would nave no problem unloading used Airbi...

Peacock
08-08-2018, 07:54 AM
Allegiant has also stopped hiring. It was supposed to be until this fall because of the MD88 retirements, but management just announced last week that it's indefinite.

Allegiant is definitely a fringe player (but competitor), and SWA would nave no problem unloading used Airbi...
We should buy allegiant to secure that sweet gate space by the FBO in Austin

ecam
08-08-2018, 08:39 AM
We should buy allegiant to secure that sweet gate space by the FBO in Austin

Ha ha good one. It's a long shot, but Southwest buying Allegiant would be about eliminating competition. While you all have been off being a big 4 legacy carrier, the LCCs have been flying your old passengers around in increasing numbers. Frontier/spirit are too big to dispose of. Allegiant could go away tomorrow and few people would care. Management here has been focused on the resort business lately and seem disinterested in running an airline. I could see you guys buying allegiant and SY. Dispose of the Airbi, airtran the pilots. Then AS/Jetblue, and Frontier/Sprirt merge and the consolidation is complete.

Squallrider
08-08-2018, 09:50 AM
Ha ha good one. It's a long shot, but Southwest buying Allegiant would be about eliminating competition. While you all have been off being a big 4 legacy carrier, the LCCs have been flying your old passengers around in increasing numbers. Frontier/spirit are too big to dispose of. Allegiant could go away tomorrow and few people would care. Management here has been focused on the resort business lately and seem disinterested in running an airline. I could see you guys buying allegiant and SY. Dispose of the Airbi, airtran the pilots. Then AS/Jetblue, and Frontier/Sprirt merge and the consolidation is complete.

ďFew ppl would careĒ tells me they arenít worth the money or joining of lists and the emotions that come with it. Sun country would be more likely and thatís unlikely in itself

WHACKMASTER
08-08-2018, 10:00 AM
Ha ha good one. It's a long shot, but Southwest buying Allegiant would be about eliminating competition. While you all have been off being a big 4 legacy carrier, the LCCs have been flying your old passengers around in increasing numbers. Frontier/spirit are too big to dispose of. Allegiant could go away tomorrow and few people would care. Management here has been focused on the resort business lately and seem disinterested in running an airline. I could see you guys buying allegiant and SY. Dispose of the Airbi, airtran the pilots. Then AS/Jetblue, and Frontier/Sprirt merge and the consolidation is complete.

Per our head of route planning, ďI can find a way to compete with everyone, even Allegiant but I canít compete with SpiritĒ.

I donít see why SWA would want Allegiant. For what? They donít have any valuable slots and why buy a bunch of Airbuses only to dispose of them.

Somebody is going to buy Spirit as theyíve become a thorn in the Big 4ís side. You can only grow and depress yields in places like DFW, BWI, ORD, LAS, FLL/MIA, NYC before you get a target on your back. No ill will towards Spirit pilots whatsoever, btw.

barabek
08-08-2018, 04:13 PM
I have friends that just got emails for September interviews. So seems like things are moving. Maybe not as fast, but moving.

So, I don't know how accurate it is, but I heard directly from 2 differrnt CKAMs that the hiring freeze was considered and never implemented. They decided to continue hiring and interviewing as planned and published by SWAPA in June. The number of classes planned till the end of this year are 2 in August, 2 in September, 3 in October, 2 in November and 1 for December.



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