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View Full Version : Info Session


Cmdrls
07-02-2018, 03:26 PM
Lots of great stuff being shared at the info session right now! Based on what I am hearing, I will not only be a yes...but a HECK YES!






LEROYYYYYYYYYY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSS


hilltopflyer
07-02-2018, 04:10 PM
Nice first post haha

somertime32
07-02-2018, 04:26 PM
Lots of great stuff being shared at the info session right now! Based on what I am hearing, I will not only be a yes...but a HECK YES!






LEROYYYYYYYYYY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSS

Youíre just a F&H plant juicer, go clean a plane.


pilotpayne
07-02-2018, 04:57 PM
Lots of great stuff being shared at the info session right now! Based on what I am hearing, I will not only be a yes...but a HECK YES!






LEROYYYYYYYYYY JENKINSSSSSSSSSSSS


Anyone know if they recorded it and will post it?

BunkerF16
07-02-2018, 05:02 PM
Anyone know if they recorded it and will post it?


I'm pretty sure they're going to record at least one of them and post it...just not sure if they're doing all of them, or if they did this one....I think I remember hearing they're going to record one of the JFK meetings...don't hold me to that though...

nuball5
07-02-2018, 05:17 PM
Anyone know if they recorded it and will post it?

Tonight's was recorded minus the Q&A. Should be two hours of material. Some good tough questions during the Q&A. Everyone was pretty chill and professional.

Cmdrls
07-02-2018, 05:22 PM
Youíre just a F&H plant juicer, go clean a plane.

Planted in your T5 tulip farm. Itís going to pass bigly...belive me...belive me.

Boeingnotgoing
07-02-2018, 05:25 PM
Yeah I've watched every video, gone through the FAQ, it only further affirms my yes vote. This is a top notch contract.

Mattio
07-02-2018, 05:27 PM
Anyone know if they recorded it and will post it?

An email from ALPA said they were going to record one informational session and put it up online. However, it will exclude the Q & A. I wish they would record all of them, including the Q & A and put them up. I'd like to hear their responses to pilot's concerns. I feel like they are selective with which questions they answer in the FAQ's as well. The TA has a built in campaign to support it with media and everyone's email address. There's no group that has expertise and the resources to be devil's advocate for the opposing viewpoint (unless you want to count Blue Pilots or APC ;) )

BunkerF16
07-02-2018, 05:28 PM
Tonight's was recorded minus the Q&A. Should be two hours of material. Some good tough questions during the Q&A. Everyone was pretty chill and professional.


Why not the Q&A session. That could be some of the best information we could have gleamed from the night.

Mattio
07-02-2018, 05:28 PM
Yeah I've watched every video, gone through the FAQ, it only further affirms my yes vote. This is a top notch contract.

Gotta love the first time posters in support of the TA.... doesn't make me suspicious at all

nuball5
07-02-2018, 05:37 PM
Why not the Q&A session. That could be some of the most informative information we could gleam from the night.

They really didn't give a reason. I think they should have as well.

AYLflyer
07-02-2018, 05:39 PM
I'm planning on attending the BOS one tomorrow. Should one plan on being there the full 4 hours?

nuball5
07-02-2018, 05:42 PM
I'm planning on attending the BOS one tomorrow. Should one plan on being there the full 4 hours?

The door was open the entire time and there wasn't any check-in process. Come and go as you need. The Hilton did a good job with the food I thought...I might go again tomorrow just for that!

Cmdrls
07-02-2018, 05:42 PM
Why not the Q&A session. That could be some of the best information we could have gleamed from the night.

Because the A part will all be fake news.

Boeingnotgoing
07-02-2018, 05:45 PM
Gotta love the first time posters in support of the TA.... doesn't make me suspicious at all

I'm on other forums, just new to this one. Here's some things I like about the TA:

Competitive pay on the 320

A rate on the 195/100 that gives the company an opportunity to compete with a new aircraft.

A plan to get the 401k to 16%

More seed money for Medical

Retention of VDA so those that want to work can.

I wished they kept the 150% sellback but at least we can get 100%, others dont have that option...

hyperboy
07-02-2018, 05:45 PM
An email from ALPA said they were going to record one informational session and put it up online. However, it will exclude the Q & A. I wish they would record all of them, including the Q & A and put them up. I'd like to hear their responses to pilot's concerns. I feel like they are selective with which questions they answer in the FAQ's as well. The TA has a built in campaign to support it with media and everyone's email address. There's no group that has expertise and the resources to be devil's advocate for the opposing viewpoint (unless you want to count Blue Pilots or APC ;) )

Why don't you just go to one of them?

hyperboy
07-02-2018, 05:46 PM
Anyone know if they recorded it and will post it?

The section 25 language IMHO is as advertised. Plenty of things the legacies can pattern bargain for.

hyperboy
07-02-2018, 05:48 PM
Why not the Q&A session. That could be some of the best information we could have gleamed from the night.

You could also go to one of them like I did? There are plenty of them this month.

RiddleEagle18
07-02-2018, 05:56 PM
So if they arenít going to release the Q&A does anyone want to tell us what questions were asked?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

N311JB
07-02-2018, 05:56 PM
The door was open the entire time and there wasn't any check-in process. Come and go as you need. The Hilton did a good job with the food I thought...I might go again tomorrow just for that!

Typical pilot. No wonder you’re a Yes vote. A free meal is good enough for you. Oh wait, crew meals aren’t even in the TA. You probably go to strip clubs and think the girls actually like you.

I’m just messing around. Vote as you will

Boeingnotgoing
07-02-2018, 06:07 PM
Typical pilot. No wonder youíre a Yes vote. A free meal is good enough for you. Oh wait, crew meals arenít even in the TA. You probably go to strip clubs and think the girls actually like you.

Iím just messing around. Vote as you will

Actually crew meals are in the TA. Mint meals for augmented. Eat up cafe or boxes for 3.5 hrs or more. My question is do I want to pick my cafe item first or let the customers order and finish whats left?

PasserOGas
07-02-2018, 06:16 PM
Actually crew meals are in the TA. Mint meals for augmented. Eat up cafe or boxes for 3.5 hrs or more. My question is do I want to pick my cafe item first or let the customers order and finish whats left?

*Facepalm*


And this is why we fail.

Definitely let the customers finish. We want them to have first dibs on the cheese and crackers!

Bluedriver
07-02-2018, 06:19 PM
I'm on other forums, just new to this one. Here's some things I like about the TA:

Competitive pay on the 320

A rate on the 195/100 that gives the company an opportunity to compete with a new aircraft.

A plan to get the 401k to 16%

More seed money for Medical

Retention of VDA so those that want to work can.

I wished they kept the 150% sellback but at least we can get 100%, others dont have that option...

Definitely F & H.

pilotpayne
07-02-2018, 06:28 PM
*Facepalm*


And this is why we fail.

Definitely let the customers finish. We want them to have first dibs on the cheese and crackers!


Yeah that wasnít a good post.

How about any flight where a mint meal is served the crew will get one for each pilot. Heck Iím a 190 guy so I donít even get a snack box lol.

Boeingnotgoing
07-02-2018, 06:48 PM
Yeah that wasnít a good post.

How about any flight where a mint meal is served the crew will get one for each pilot. Heck Iím a 190 guy so I donít even get a snack box lol.

True, there is a gap where pilots would be on a mint flight but would only get leftover options if any. I usually go out and buy the flight attendants meals most of those times anyway.

nuball5
07-02-2018, 06:48 PM
So if they arenít going to release the Q&A does anyone want to tell us what questions were asked?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothing really that different than from the Q&A's online. Most questions dealt with Scope, Retirement in regards to VEBA usage and Profit Sharing. The majority were Scheduling-Section 25 questions.

I got the impression that the MEC feel this agreement in its totality is Market Rate. They didn't hold back or try to hide the stuff they didn't like which I appreciated i.e Profit Sharing, Cola 2%, etc...

BunkerF16
07-02-2018, 07:46 PM
I usually go out and buy the flight attendants meals most of those times anyway.


Of course you do.

Cmdrls
07-02-2018, 07:46 PM
Actually crew meals are in the TA. Mint meals for augmented. Eat up cafe or boxes for 3.5 hrs or more. My question is do I want to pick my cafe item first or let the customers order and finish whats left?

I think the correct course of action is to allow the customers the opportunity to pick first. By doing it that way, you will truly be helping the company provide the JetBlue experience that we are famous for.

Mattio
07-02-2018, 07:47 PM
Why don't you just go to one of them?

I am going to one but can't go to all of them. I was speaking to the free flow of information or lack thereof. Why not record and post all the Q&A sessions? Anyone can record it with a smart phone nowadays, not that hard.

Cmdrls
07-02-2018, 07:50 PM
Of course you do.

Wouldnít you do the same for your peers? The flight canít go without F/Aís...therefore they should be considered equals.

Boeingnotgoing
07-02-2018, 07:59 PM
Wouldnít you do the same for your peers? The flight canít go without F/Aís...therefore they should be considered equals.

Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.

Mattio
07-02-2018, 08:07 PM
Wouldnít you do the same for your peers? The flight canít go without F/Aís...therefore they should be considered equals.

I'm not sure if this guy is being a comedian or being serious, either way I'm laughing. (Especially the prior posts in this thread)

If they were our equals, then that means they would buy us lunch sometimes too right?

hyperboy
07-02-2018, 08:48 PM
I am going to one but can't go to all of them. I was speaking to the free flow of information or lack thereof. Why not record and post all the Q&A sessions? Anyone can record it with a smart phone nowadays, not that hard.

So any pilot can ask a question? Not worrying about who is watching or who they are fearing repercussion.

hilltopflyer
07-02-2018, 08:48 PM
Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.

Wow everything you said in this post cracks
Me up. You are either trolling great or are definitely not a pilot. Letís be real most pilots wouldnít wait on you if you did that. And really who on the line actually cares about CULTure anymore. The fa donít care anymore cause they just voted in an union to stop the horrendous direct relationship.

Mattio
07-02-2018, 09:03 PM
So any pilot can ask a question? Not worrying about who is watching or who they are fearing repercussion.

That's a valid point. I thought the same thing but they could have the camera stay focused on the stage where the questions are being answered and not on the pilot with the question. There's many ways they could de-identify the pilot voice, asking people not to introduce themselves before the question (or editing that out) and/or changing the sound of people's voices. Moreover, asking a question in front of a large group isn't the best way of remaining anonymous if that's your priority.

Cavity
07-02-2018, 09:05 PM
Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.

:eek: Is this guy for real?

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 04:11 AM
True, there is a gap where pilots would be on a mint flight but would only get leftover options if any. I usually go out and buy the flight attendants meals most of those times anyway.

F & H. More fake CULTure buying FA meals, yeah, ok.

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 04:13 AM
Wouldnít you do the same for your peers? The flight canít go without F/Aís...therefore they should be considered equals.

Definitely F & H.

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 04:13 AM
Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.

Still F & H.

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 04:14 AM
:eek: Is this guy for real?

Absolutely not.

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 04:15 AM
I'm not sure if this guy is being a comedian or being serious, either way I'm laughing. (Especially the prior posts in this thread)

If they were our equals, then that means they would buy us lunch sometimes too right?

Strange that's never happened on duty. But we're EQUAL!

GuppyPuppy
07-03-2018, 04:30 AM
Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.

I thought the Gateway Select rookies didn't start flying here for another 2 years.:rolleyes:

GP

hyperboy
07-03-2018, 04:31 AM
That's a valid point. I thought the same thing but they could have the camera stay focused on the stage where the questions are being answered and not on the pilot with the question. There's many ways they could de-identify the pilot voice, asking people not to introduce themselves before the question (or editing that out) and/or changing the sound of people's voices. Moreover, asking a question in front of a large group isn't the best way of remaining anonymous if that's your priority.

People won't even give up there identity on this board. now your creating voice reconstruction so as to identify the pilot. You can't be serious. Just go to a roadshow. How hard is it? It is YOUR career.

The Merger and Scope part was real! Plenty of regionals have aircraft on order for seat configurations that they can't fly at their current major they fly for and I am sure would love to "help" us out over here at JB. Terrifying.

We need those protections.

PasserOGas
07-03-2018, 05:10 AM
Exactly, fly with guys all the time that complain about how in-flight treats them. Respect goes a long way, helping with blue turns, running for food, deplaning together, going to the van together, that is what's going to keep this culture alive.


Tell your friend Joanna that we are never cleaning these planes again.

CaptCoolHand
07-03-2018, 05:18 AM
Wouldnít you do the same for your peers? The flight canít go without F/Aís...therefore they should be considered equals.

LMFAO!

Go away...
My peers canít be trained in two weeks having never touched an aircraft.

dingo222
07-03-2018, 05:23 AM
I think the correct course of action is to allow the customers the opportunity to pick first. By doing it that way, you will truly be helping the company provide the JetBlue experience that we are famous for.

This is some comedy gold man! The correct answer is itís required for pilots, and an optional purchase for customers. So, Iíll take my sodium laced crap pack before they even board. That makes a generous assumption that our crack team of catering commandos can even get ice and water on the plane without a two hour delay. So in the end we will just grieve it and Iíll use the settlement cash at Ruthís Chris on a layover.

If you didnít read the memo, the blue juice has been moved in the cabin restyled aircraft. Itís located in lav A, where I just left a sodium induced upper decker. Enjoy your culture and thanks for the laugh.

CaptCoolHand
07-03-2018, 05:23 AM
I think the correct course of action is to allow the customers the opportunity to pick first. By doing it that way, you will truly be helping the company provide the JetBlue experience that we are famous for.

I donít think we work for the same company.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 05:49 AM
Wow everything you said in this post cracks
Me up. You are either trolling great or are definitely not a pilot. Letís be real most pilots wouldnít wait on you if you did that. And really who on the line actually cares about CULTure anymore. The fa donít care anymore cause they just voted in an union to stop the horrendous direct relationship.

True, many would leave the other behind. Would have loved to see things like stand up PA's and helping blue turns as part of the TA. Then it would have been required to stay. Smh...

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 05:52 AM
:eek: Is this guy for real?

More real than the idea weíd get a penny more signing bonus from the company. Iíd rather donate mine to JCCF or some kind of medical fund for crewmembers that get hit with big bills.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 05:53 AM
Still F & H.

If you mean F & H as fun & helpful then gulity as charged...

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 05:58 AM
If they were our equals, then that means they would buy us lunch sometimes too right?

Valid point, which obviously brings up the big issue of pay disparity in the aircraft. We need to all fight for equality, help those that are less privledged, and create a level playing field. I'm glad to see some of the in-flight working through a gateway program to become pilots.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 06:00 AM
Tell your friend Joanna that we are never cleaning these planes again.

I did send her an email but hadn't heard back yet :-( hoping to see my questions answered in a future AskJoanna update.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 06:04 AM
That makes a generous assumption that our crack team of catering commandos can even get ice and water on the plane without a two hour delay.

Makes me wonder what we could do to help catering, maybe pull the trash bags for them, throw it down the slide? Consolidate carts so they swap less? Maybe help in-flight with mint meal checks? Cause the delay is a big issue.

hilltopflyer
07-03-2018, 06:08 AM
Makes me wonder what we could do to help catering, maybe pull the trash bags for them, throw it down the slide? Consolidate carts so they swap less? Maybe help in-flight with mint meal checks? Cause the delay is a big issue.

Itís funny I love the delay. I donít tell ops or anyone we havenít been catered. I wait till the gate agent comes down and I say oh Iím sorry we canít push we havenít been catered. We are supposed to be on every flight I donít need to tell them how to do their job. I wish every pilot would get this attitude towards their own job. Do it to the best of their ability and donít do anyone elseís.

somertime32
07-03-2018, 06:17 AM
If you mean F & H as fun & helpful then gulity as charged...

Well played, well played

somertime32
07-03-2018, 06:18 AM
Actually crew meals are in the TA. Mint meals for augmented. Eat up cafe or boxes for 3.5 hrs or more. My question is do I want to pick my cafe item first or let the customers order and finish whats left?

Wait, back the truck up.....we canít eat boxes or cheese plates right now?

PasserOGas
07-03-2018, 06:30 AM
Wait, back the truck up.....we canít eat boxes or cheese plates right now?

Exactly what I thought.

I am not saying I have eaten a snack box without paying for it, but I know someone who has. :o

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 06:52 AM
I'm not sure if this guy is being a comedian or being serious, either way I'm laughing. (Especially the prior posts in this thread)

If they were our equals, then that means they would buy us lunch sometimes too right?

Great point! However, everytime I have asked in-flight to grab me some lunch, they have returned with a iced Non-Fat Latte with a Caramel Drizzle and a bananna. Go figure.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 06:53 AM
Definitely F & H.

No more BD...you are fake news...FAKE NEWS

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 06:56 AM
Tell your friend Joanna that we are never cleaning these planes again.

WE? Speak for yourself POG. I love doing the blue gloved hokey pokey down the isle with our customers. They must love it too because my NPS score is off the charts!

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 07:01 AM
This is some comedy gold man! The correct answer is it’s required for pilots, and an optional purchase for customers. So, I’ll take my sodium laced crap pack before they even board. That makes a generous assumption that our crack team of catering commandos can even get ice and water on the plane without a two hour delay. So in the end we will just grieve it and I’ll use the settlement cash at Ruth’s Chris on a layover.

If you didn’t read the memo, the blue juice has been moved in the cabin restyled aircraft. It’s located in lav A, where I just left a sodium induced upper decker. Enjoy your culture and thanks for the laugh.

Lol sodium induced upper decker...that is going to replace my traditional BM over LBL on transcons.

PasserOGas
07-03-2018, 07:03 AM
WE? Speak for yourself POG. I love doing the blue gloved hokey pokey down the isle with our customers. They must love it too because my NPS score is off the charts!

Shows what you know, the gloves are clear and made from recycled tears.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 07:24 AM
Makes me wonder what we could do to help catering, maybe pull the trash bags for them, throw it down the slide? Consolidate carts so they swap less? Maybe help in-flight with mint meal checks? Cause the delay is a big issue.

Well Boeing, generally after I finish collecting the trash and folding seatbelts, I help by heading outside to flag down the nearest catering truck. This method seems far more effective than a simple call to ops. Just my .02.

BTW please donít forget your vest...happy jetting

say again
07-03-2018, 07:33 AM
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzzzz!:rolleyes:

BunkerF16
07-03-2018, 07:35 AM
Cmdrls is an obvious troll. Don't waste your time responding to that POS.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 07:38 AM
They must love it too because my NPS score is off the charts!

Glad to see I'm not the only one that cares about NPS. Surprisingly I started talking about leaving feedback on my PAs, saying we really want to know how to improve, and its improved my NPS. Would have loved to see a bonus for NPS in the TA too.

somertime32
07-03-2018, 07:42 AM
Exactly what I thought.

I am not saying I have eaten a snack box without paying for it, but I know someone who has. :o

I just hope they donít stock the cheese spread in a can....if they do I might as well fire myself

benzoate
07-03-2018, 07:44 AM
I just hope they donít stock the cheese spread in a can....if they do I might as well fire myself
Those Barger boxes are probably the nastiest, most processed crap around. Weíre better off stocking 2 month old double cheeseburgers than that crap.

say again
07-03-2018, 07:45 AM
Cmdrls is an obvious troll. Don't waste your time responding to that POS.

As is Boeingnotgoing. Most likely one in the same

PasserOGas
07-03-2018, 07:45 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one that cares about NPS. Surprisingly I started talking about leaving feedback on my PAs, saying we really want to know how to improve, and its improved my NPS. Would have loved to see a bonus for NPS in the TA too.

Wowwy wow wow.

Dude, you need to take Joanna's d!ck out of your mouth.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 07:46 AM
Cmdrls is an obvious troll. Don't waste your time responding to that POS.

By POS do you mean Positively Outstanding Service provider? Yeah buddy, you hit the nail on the head!

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 08:30 AM
Dude, you need to take Joanna's d!ck out of your mouth.

This is so much bigger then whose name is on the CEO line, it's each and every one of us who builds the culture and produces a memorable experience for our customers. If we all just did a little bit more think how successful Jetblue could be?

hilltopflyer
07-03-2018, 08:45 AM
This is so much bigger then whose name is on the CEO line, it's each and every one of us who builds the culture and produces a memorable experience for our customers. If we all just did a little bit more think how successful Jetblue could be?

Right now I couldnít give two cents about customer experience. The elt doesnít care about me. Why should I care about their bonus.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 09:13 AM
Right now I couldnít give two cents about customer experience. The elt doesnít care about me. Why should I care about their bonus.

This is flawed logic hilltop. If we donít provide the experience that our customers have come to expect, they wonít buy tickets on our airline. Fewer tickets purchased equals lower ELT compensation and executive bonuses. This will cause turnover at the top resulting in a subpar ELT team taking over, thus ruining our airline.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 09:16 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one that cares about NPS. Surprisingly I started talking about leaving feedback on my PAs, saying we really want to know how to improve, and its improved my NPS. Would have loved to see a bonus for NPS in the TA too.

I think you are on to something here boeing. Perhaps if we gave up pay for leading edge, that money could be allocated to ďNPS bonusesĒ

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 09:19 AM
First off I'm not someone that posts much on forums. I read a lot and educate myself and make the best business decision between the company and I. (I is inclusive of my family). I'm not emotional about it. It's business. I will have no heartache if it fails nor will I rejoice if it passes. Simply a business deal.
I have a wholly owned regional background where the parent company played the scope game to their fullest advantage. I also went through 3 contract negations as well as a bankruptcy negotiation. I'm rather desensitized to this process.

I'm a B6, non blue glove wearing, do my job only, not a company plant pilot.

I am a yes vote.

Reasons:
1. Scope: NO ONE but B6 can do our flying (except code share; every major has code share.)
2. Work rules. Industry leading. Next day trigger at 1 am, 5hr ALV (NO MORE 10HR 3 DAY TRIPS), 14 hour max duty day. Done no extensions period.
3. Reserve rules. (I will upgrade ((in 2020)) because of this alone)
4. Insurance. Not great but 2nd best in industry behind Alaska (where you can't use tobacco products, I like cigars!) Just to clarify, insurance OOP MAX is 2nd best behind AK.
5. Pairing/line construction
6. Retirement (no match 15% going to 16% plus contribution overage accounts.)
100% pay cash out of PTO date of retirement(510hr max)
7. 4 year contract
8. Night override and international pay.
9. C91 flying cut in half.
Things I don't like;
Same as everyone. COLA. Profit sharing 5% Cliff, Implementation time. No 321 override.
These are not deal breakers. These are simply negotiable terms in 2022.

This contract meets or exceeds all of the survey data including mine. It is"MARKETRATE" as it was advertised. Not industry leading even though it is industry leading in the language. The fact that we are the 4th/5th highest paid (based on hourly rate only behind DL, AA, UAL AK) says that we are hanging with the big boys now. We are in fact the 5th largest airline behind AK/VA.
We have 18 years under our belt and 3.5 as aN ALPA shop. Delta just celebrated 65 Years as a union shop.

If it gets sent back because we are chasing Delta rates or compensation we will NEVER get a contact. Nor will you be able to make it up for what you are asking for. Someone will always have something better than what you have, and you will always have something better than they do.
Language is everything to me. I think the pay is fair for the current market, I would like better COLA but I'm not going to trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. Just simple math on the COLA btw for a 12 year Captain the extra 1% COLA with an average 1000 credit hours per year equates to 18k over the life of the contract, while your signing bonus is 21k.
Like I said not a deal breaker it will be made up elsewhere.
I humbly believe that the company will not give us more with it taking something away. They budgeted the amount willing to pay and that won't change. We may get COLA in exchange for something that was a benefit.
Spirit got a massive bonus to"catch them up" to current status. We aren't that far behind so we don't need a 34k bonus to get to "market rate." Yet again this is not an industry leading contact.

Remember we asked for market rate not industry leading. Your words were heard and fulfilled. Now you some are ready to burn the place to the ground.

Be careful what you wish for. Better to have a contact than wish you had a contact.

hilltopflyer
07-03-2018, 09:23 AM
This is flawed logic hilltop. If we donít provide the experience that our customers have come to expect, they wonít buy tickets on our airline. Fewer tickets purchased equals lower ELT compensation and executive bonuses. This will cause turnover at the top resulting in a subpar ELT team taking over, thus ruining our airline.

I would absolutely love if the elt got canned. I would love if customers donít come back, maybe then the elt would make management see our true value to this airline.

BeatNavy
07-03-2018, 09:23 AM
Flyboygt, what codeshares does southwest have?

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 09:25 AM
Flyboygt, what codeshares does southwest have?

You are correct they have none.
Only 1 example.
How many contact negotiations has WN been through?

BunkerF16
07-03-2018, 09:31 AM
As is Boeingnotgoing. Most likely one in the same


Yep. Diversions from the topics at hand. Time to add to the ignore list.

BunkerF16
07-03-2018, 09:32 AM
First off I'm not someone that posts much on forums. I read a lot and educate myself and make the best business decision between the company and I. (I is inclusive of my family). I'm not emotional about it. It's business. I will have no heartache if it fails nor will I rejoice if it passes. Simply a business deal.
I have a wholly owned regional background where the parent company played the scope game to their fullest advantage. I also went through 3 contract negations as well as a bankruptcy negotiation. I'm rather desensitized to this process.

I'm a B6, non blue glove wearing, do my job only, not a company plant pilot.

I am a yes vote.

Reasons:
1. Scope: NO ONE but B6 can do our flying (except code share; every major has code share.)
2. Work rules. Industry leading. Next day trigger at 1 am, 5hr ALV (NO MORE 10HR 3 DAY TRIPS), 14 hour max duty day. Done no extensions period.
3. Reserve rules. (I will upgrade ((in 2020)) because of this alone)
4. Insurance. Not great but 2nd best in industry behind Alaska (where you can't use tobacco products, I like cigars!) Just to clarify, insurance OOP MAX is 2nd best behind AK.
5. Pairing/line construction
6. Retirement (no match 15% going to 16% plus contribution overage accounts.)
100% pay cash out of PTO date of retirement(510hr max)
7. 4 year contract
8. Night override and international pay.
9. C91 flying cut in half.
Things I don't like;
Same as everyone. COLA. Profit sharing 5% Cliff, Implementation time. No 321 override.
These are not deal breakers. These are simply negotiable terms in 2022.

This contract meets or exceeds all of the survey data including mine. It is"MARKETRATE" as it was advertised. Not industry leading even though it is industry leading in the language. The fact that we are the 4th/5th highest paid (based on hourly rate only behind DL, AA, UAL AK) says that we are hanging with the big boys now. We are in fact the 5th largest airline behind AK/VA.
We have 18 years under our belt and 3.5 as aN ALPA shop. Delta just celebrated 65 Years as a union shop.

If it gets sent back because we are chasing Delta rates or compensation we will NEVER get a contact. Nor will you be able to make it up for what you are asking for. Someone will always have something better than what you have, and you will always have something better than they do.
Language is everything to me. I think the pay is fair for the current market, I would like better COLA but I'm not going to trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. Just simple math on the COLA btw for a 12 year Captain the extra 1% COLA with an average 1000 credit hours per year equates to 18k over the life of the contract, while your signing bonus is 21k.
Like I said not a deal breaker it will be made up elsewhere.
I humbly believe that the company will not give us more with it taking something away. They budgeted the amount willing to pay and that won't change. We may get COLA in exchange for something that was a benefit.
Spirit got a massive bonus to"catch them up" to current status. We aren't that far behind so we don't need a 34k bonus to get to "market rate." Yet again this is not an industry leading contact.

Remember we asked for market rate not industry leading. Your words were heard and fulfilled. Now you some are ready to burn the place to the ground.

Be careful what you wish for. Better to have a contact than wish you had a contact.


Curious. How many years on property and what aircraft are you on?

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 09:43 AM
Curious. How many years on property and what aircraft are you on?

3 years, LGB 320 FO.
NOT looking fwd to my SODIUM Box every leg.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 09:51 AM
Yep. Diversions from the topics at hand. Time to add to the ignore list.

Hey don't hurt my feelings now, to which topics have I diverted from? I have responded to most it not all responses to my posts.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 09:57 AM
The elt doesnít care about me. Why should I care about their bonus.

I must be reading a different TA then you? $50 million just for a vote, 20% pay raise, more days off, better 401k, more seed money, reduced duty limits, more PTO, more vacations... should I go on?

I would have been happy with just 1 of the above, jetblue can keep the rest.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 10:06 AM
I must be reading a different TA then you? $50 million just for a vote, 20% pay raise, more days off, better 401k, more seed money, reduced duty limits, more PTO, more vacations... should I go on?

I would have been happy with just 1 of the above, jetblue can keep the rest.

This.^^^
To me the benefits outweigh the negatives. To wait 2+more years for the same"turd" to come out and then another 18 months Implementation (that will not change) is not worth the $55k lost wages at my seniority, not to mention the 60k loss in 401k.

Cavity
07-03-2018, 10:13 AM
More real than the idea weíd get a penny more signing bonus from the company. Iíd rather donate mine to JCCF or some kind of medical fund for crewmembers that get hit with big bills.

You 'blue' your cover, no mention of BPF, obviously not a pilot. You're a joke. Thanks for playing!

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 10:22 AM
You 'blue' your cover, no mention of BPF, obviously not a pilot. You're a joke. Thanks for playing!

^^^^ouch^^^^
I've heard a lot of fun items being purchased, no mention from anyone about donations.. esp toJCCF... (That still exists?)

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 10:35 AM
You 'blue' your cover, no mention of BPF, obviously not a pilot. You're a joke. Thanks for playing!

I did think about BPF, but I thought with how generous this TA is, why should just the pilots benefit, why not give back some to everyone, continue that caring value?

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 10:38 AM
I did think about BPF, but I thought with how generous this TA is, why should just the pilots benefit, why not give back some to everyone, continue that caring value?

I think you just opened a can of worms there!

say again
07-03-2018, 10:43 AM
I think you just opened a can of worms there!

Not if people feed into it. It's easier just to ignore a troll.

queue
07-03-2018, 10:43 AM
Gotta love the first time posters in support of the TA.... doesn't make me suspicious at all


Yeah... guys like HyperBoy who literally are or have been company staff "pilots".




The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 10:46 AM
You could also go to one of them like I did? There are plenty of them this month.


What are they doing for people who live on the West Coast who don't want to take 2-3 days of their time off to listen to only the "pro" arguments?


Also, don't you live there in NYC HyperBoy? There's a reason you can volunteer for staff positions.


The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 10:48 AM
Actually crew meals are in the TA. Mint meals for augmented. Eat up cafe or boxes for 3.5 hrs or more. My question is do I want to pick my cafe item first or let the customers order and finish whats left?


Since the contract fails to constraint BJ from further assigning us ancilliary, non-pilot duties, BJ could always come out with another policy saying that you will not get your food unless you clean the airplane too.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 10:51 AM
Glad to see I'm not the only one that cares about NPS. Surprisingly I started talking about leaving feedback on my PAs, saying we really want to know how to improve, and its improved my NPS. Would have loved to see a bonus for NPS in the TA too.


Yes, and they should pay $20 to customers to report FA's using cell phones! Imagine the efficiency gains by keeping your employees in terror!



Oh wait................





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

expectholding
07-03-2018, 10:52 AM
What are they doing for people who live on the West Coast who don't want to take 2-3 days of their time off to listen to only the "pro" arguments?


Also, don't you live there in NYC HyperBoy? There's a reason you can volunteer for staff positions.


The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Well to start, theyíre going to the west coast next week. Second, I attended yesterday. Wasnít all pro, they own the shortcomings and speak to it. You might try getting educated.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 10:52 AM
Not if people feed into it. It's easier just to ignore a troll.

I feel ya!
I got baited!
I'm sorry 😥

queue
07-03-2018, 10:54 AM
First off I'm not someone that posts much on forums. I read a lot and educate myself and make the best business decision between the company and I. (I is inclusive of my family). I'm not emotional about it. It's business. I will have no heartache if it fails nor will I rejoice if it passes. Simply a business deal.
I have a wholly owned regional background where the parent company played the scope game to their fullest advantage. I also went through 3 contract negations as well as a bankruptcy negotiation. I'm rather desensitized to this process.

I'm a B6, non blue glove wearing, do my job only, not a company plant pilot.

I am a yes vote.

Reasons:
1. Scope: NO ONE but B6 can do our flying (except code share; every major has code share.)
2. Work rules. Industry leading. Next day trigger at 1 am, 5hr ALV (NO MORE 10HR 3 DAY TRIPS), 14 hour max duty day. Done no extensions period.
3. Reserve rules. (I will upgrade ((in 2020)) because of this alone)
4. Insurance. Not great but 2nd best in industry behind Alaska (where you can't use tobacco products, I like cigars!) Just to clarify, insurance OOP MAX is 2nd best behind AK.
5. Pairing/line construction
6. Retirement (no match 15% going to 16% plus contribution overage accounts.)
100% pay cash out of PTO date of retirement(510hr max)
7. 4 year contract
8. Night override and international pay.
9. C91 flying cut in half.
Things I don't like;
Same as everyone. COLA. Profit sharing 5% Cliff, Implementation time. No 321 override.
These are not deal breakers. These are simply negotiable terms in 2022.

This contract meets or exceeds all of the survey data including mine. It is"MARKETRATE" as it was advertised. Not industry leading even though it is industry leading in the language. The fact that we are the 4th/5th highest paid (based on hourly rate only behind DL, AA, UAL AK) says that we are hanging with the big boys now. We are in fact the 5th largest airline behind AK/VA.
We have 18 years under our belt and 3.5 as aN ALPA shop. Delta just celebrated 65 Years as a union shop.

If it gets sent back because we are chasing Delta rates or compensation we will NEVER get a contact. Nor will you be able to make it up for what you are asking for. Someone will always have something better than what you have, and you will always have something better than they do.
Language is everything to me. I think the pay is fair for the current market, I would like better COLA but I'm not going to trip over a dollar to pick up a dime. Just simple math on the COLA btw for a 12 year Captain the extra 1% COLA with an average 1000 credit hours per year equates to 18k over the life of the contract, while your signing bonus is 21k.
Like I said not a deal breaker it will be made up elsewhere.
I humbly believe that the company will not give us more with it taking something away. They budgeted the amount willing to pay and that won't change. We may get COLA in exchange for something that was a benefit.
Spirit got a massive bonus to"catch them up" to current status. We aren't that far behind so we don't need a 34k bonus to get to "market rate." Yet again this is not an industry leading contact.

Remember we asked for market rate not industry leading. Your words were heard and fulfilled. Now you some are ready to burn the place to the ground.

Be careful what you wish for. Better to have a contact than wish you had a contact.


So "regional mentality".... settle for less because you've been beaten down.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 10:58 AM
Well to start, theyíre going to the west coast next week. Second, I attended yesterday. Wasnít all pro, they own the shortcomings and speak to it. You might try getting educated.


I can't confirm or deny that I attended but I know everything that was said and wasn't said. I'm far more concerned about what wasn't said and the glaring problems with this substandard contract. Did you notice the Dependability Policy is now made legally enforceable by contract? Did you see the part about the company doctor? It gives BJ free reign to store medical records unofficially. They should be entitled to statements of Qualification or Disqualification only, nothing more. This doesn't stop them from sniffing around and keeping books off the record. You know there are plenty of BJ pilots with cancer. BJ wouldn't be the first company to go after people for medical reasons - I am aware of literally hundreds of cases.



We need to Vote NO, fix some language, then votes Yes on TA 2.0.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 11:03 AM
I'm not beaten down at all. My"regional mentality" is my background not what defines my current mentality.
I listed things I don't like. Be I gave reasons for all. The loss of compensation for 2+ years is not worth the tiny gains that are the main gripe. They are simply bargaining chips in n 2022. I'm personally not willing to lose parts of this contract that are a benefit to get 1% cola. Sorry. There is no way 1% cola will make up the difference of 2 years of lost "compensation" while we renegotiate, vote, and implement. I know the dollar value for me personally as I already stated.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 11:06 AM
I can't confirm or deny that I attended but I know everything that was said and wasn't said. I'm far more concerned about what wasn't said and the glaring problems with this substandard contract. Did you notice the Dependability Policy is now made legally enforceable by contract? Did you see the part about the company doctor? It gives BJ free reign to store medical records unofficially. They should be entitled to statements of Qualification or Disqualification only, nothing more. This doesn't stop them from sniffing around and keeping books off the record. You know there are plenty of BJ pilots with cancer. BJ wouldn't be the first company to go after people for medical reasons - I am aware of literally hundreds of cases.



We need to Vote NO, fix some language, then votes Yes on TA 2.0.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

I already stated earlier that I have no heartache with an overall no vote. I will continue as my union has instructed me. Those are items you want fixed. I'm glad you bring such things to light.

queue
07-03-2018, 11:13 AM
I already stated earlier that I have no heartache with an overall no vote. I will continue as my union has instructed me. Those are items you want fixed. I'm glad you bring such things to light.


I am thankful.


There are too many Bozos (and his comrades) who have ulterior motives for wanting this passed. One of these guys is a confirmed company staff pilot who has benefited from special treatment for a long time now. These guys don't mind screwing over everyone else for sub-incremental improvements because they mostly represent special cases of high seniority or living in base. The rest of us will work just as hard, or harder, yet still make less than SWA while operating under a contract with dangerous provisions.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 11:18 AM
I'm not beaten down at all. My"regional mentality" is my background not what defines my current mentality.
I listed things I don't like. Be I gave reasons for all. The loss of compensation for 2+ years is not worth the tiny gains that are the main gripe. They are simply bargaining chips in n 2022. I'm personally not willing to lose parts of this contract that are a benefit to get 1% cola. Sorry. There is no way 1% cola will make up the difference of 2 years of lost "compensation" while we renegotiate, vote, and implement. I know the dollar value for me personally as I already stated.


So you're taking crumbs... how is that not a regional mentality? How isn't this the token definition of "rationalization"?



Try to break out of yourself for a second... throw in the average Delta or SWA pilot... would they agree with you?



I'm not trying to insult you... I am merely trying to point out that the frog in the beaker doesn't notice the temperature being gradually increased. We're largely biased to what we know through our anecdotal experience. Company management knows this, which is why they want to "keep everyone equal". If you clean airplanes, for example, you tend to forget you are a pilot and not a janitor. It's all a mind-f%ck and in essence, you are rationalizing acceptance of a substandard/dangerous contract.


The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 11:24 AM
So you're taking crumbs... how is that not a regional mentality? How isn't this the token definition of "rationalization"?



Try to break out of yourself for a second... throw in the average Delta or SWA pilot... would they agree with you?



I'm not trying to insult you... I am merely trying to point out that the frog in the beaker doesn't notice the temperature being gradually increased. We're largely biased to what we know through our anecdotal experience. Company management knows this, which is why they want to "keep everyone equal". If you clean airplanes, for example, you tend to forget you are a pilot and not a janitor. It's all a mind-f%ck and in essence, you are rationalizing acceptance of a substandard/dangerous contract.


The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

I understand and I don't take offense what so ever.

I commute on Delta a lot, I have talked to a few of their pilots including a good buddy of mine that is there. For the most part what they have seen they are "impressed" with the things we have in our TA. And they commend US on fighting for as long as we have.
I'm thankful to have outside eyes looking in. Not just looking through the lens of a regional or BJ pilot.
I think there are a lot of carrots being dangled in front of us in this contract that I look beyond (CSeries) to make my decision.

I do not clean, never have or will. I do what is necessary to do my job only.

queue
07-03-2018, 11:50 AM
I understand and I don't take offense what so ever.

I commute on Delta a lot, I have talked to a few of their pilots including a good buddy of mine that is there. For the most part what they have seen they are "impressed" with the things we have in our TA. And they commend US on fighting for as long as we have.
I'm thankful to have outside eyes looking in. Not just looking through the lens of a regional or BJ pilot.
I think there are a lot of carrots being dangled in front of us in this contract that I look beyond (CSeries) to make my decision.

I do not clean, never have or will. I do what is necessary to do my job only.


They need to read the actual contract and not just take bullet points. I just told some American guys about it and they too were impressed. Then I let them read the printout and they showed me lots of things that are really bad. American guys are entertaining the idea of getting ALPA because their existing union wasn't good enough. Their existing contract is an example of the dangers of accepting a sub-par contract. If we want to be industry-equivalent or leading, we should recognize there are many red flags in this contract and Vote NO, rewrite parts of it, then Vote Yes to TA 2.0. I recognize there are some scope wins but many of the wins are still cost neutral or simply industry average elsewhere (e.g. scope). The apologists and company-brownnosers told me to wait to read the language. I have, and I've read every page with extreme attention. This contract is dangerous at worst and barely industry average to Spirit/Frontier/Alaska at best. It still doesn't beat SWA.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Cavity
07-03-2018, 11:56 AM
I did think about BPF, but I thought with how generous this TA is, why should just the pilots benefit, why not give back some to everyone, continue that caring value?

Please, convince me you're a Jetblue pilot, what is 'V Cutoff Speed"....within 5kts, on the 320, or 190?

todd1200
07-03-2018, 12:05 PM
Please, convince me you're a Jetblue pilot, what is 'V Cutoff Speed"....within 5kts, on the 320, or 190?

Trick question... itís not on the gouge. A real Jetblue pilot will not know the answer if itís not on the gouge.

todd1200
07-03-2018, 12:07 PM
Not if people feed into it. It's easier just to ignore a troll.

They seem like an entertaining Yin to Queueís Yang.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 12:15 PM
I will read it all again. And look even closer at the language. Luckily we have almost all month to make as informed decision as possible. Based on current readings and interpretation I'm a yes that being said I'm very open to all input to clarify any misleading language that I missed or misinterpreted.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 12:56 PM
I can't confirm or deny that I attended but I know everything that was said and wasn't said. I'm far more concerned about what wasn't said and the glaring problems with this substandard contract. Did you notice the Dependability Policy is now made legally enforceable by contract? Did you see the part about the company doctor? It gives BJ free reign to store medical records unofficially. They should be entitled to statements of Qualification or Disqualification only, nothing more. This doesn't stop them from sniffing around and keeping books off the record. You know there are plenty of BJ pilots with cancer. BJ wouldn't be the first company to go after people for medical reasons - I am aware of literally hundreds of cases.



We need to Vote NO, fix some language, then votes Yes on TA 2.0.





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Cool man!!!!

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 01:07 PM
Please, convince me you're a Jetblue pilot, what is 'V Cutoff Speed"....within 5kts, on the 320, or 190?

Answer D: all of the above, now what slide of the SPV was that on?

queue
07-03-2018, 01:34 PM
I will read it all again. And look even closer at the language. Luckily we have almost all month to make as informed decision as possible. Based on current readings and interpretation I'm a yes that being said I'm very open to all input to clarify any misleading language that I missed or misinterpreted.


The contract may seem long but in reality it's pretty short. I mention this because there's a lot of stuff not in there. For example, in the healthcare section, the company doctor gets contract power to do things but there aren't 10 pages worth of healthcare information protection clauses. Also, rather than spelling out hard boundaries for the Dependability Policy, it 100% outsources externally to a document BJ can still change at whim. Also, since it doesn't say how many infractions are too many, so they can hang you whenever they want or based on who you are - there are no constraints so it's entirely subjective. It's unequal treatment. The apologists will say that it won't affect you (same thing the chief pilots say) unless you're a bad guy but it doesn't change the fact that it's in the contract, and a contract is a contract. There is no negotiation after it's signed - it won't be like the current FSM, BlueBook, or PEA where there is negotiation involved in application.

Also, things like positive contact are still not sufficiently and explicitly defined. In the past, BJ has gotten a pilot in trouble for standing firm on their position that leaving voicemail is positive contact. Apologists will defend BJ saying that it hardly ever happens but it doesn't change that it DID happen.

Lastly, notice how they vaguely allude to JETCRW as a means of positive contact but they don't get specific. BJ can simply push the notification to JETCRW but there are too many plausible scenarios where you don't get the message, yet you're now legally liable under the power of contract law.

I've only cherry picked the easiest examples but almost every section has some large weaknesses. Flow chart things out... diagram them... "what if" every sentence. A good contract will not have loopholes or holes. If we allow this, it will be 100% OUR fault.

Lastly, there's no language that limits BJ in most sections. The contract draws out pathways but it doesn't limit them whenever the contract has nothing to say about an issue. For example, it doesn't say something like "pilots shall not be assigned any duties not inherent to FAA certified Airmen. Currently this only includes: preflight duties, navigation, emergency procedures, informing passengers, maintaining safety of flight, following applicable 14 CFR, ICAO, regulations, etc......." It's open ended so that tomorrow they could attach more strings to commuting or even getting your "crew meals" by simply putting out another training CBT that has you put your initials that you agree (a contract). So tomorrow there's nothing stopping them from making you cleaning toilets or push wheelchairs or even driving a jetbridge. TA 1.0 draws a pathway, but doesn't really limit them in any way.

If it's not explicitly written in the contract, it doesn't exist.


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 01:40 PM
Answer D: all of the above, now what slide of the SPV was that on?


What's the hijacking code? I hear the next SPV will have that across 5 questions, and there's a new sim scenario where you have to choose between Mayday, Pan, 7700, 7600, 7500, 2200, 1200, and 0000.




This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 01:45 PM
Also, rather than spelling out hard boundaries for the Dependability Policy, it 100% outsources externally to a document BJ can still change at whim. Also, since it doesn't say how many infractions are too many, so they can hang you whenever they want or based on who you are - there are no constraints so it's entirely subjective. It's unequal treatment. The apologists will say that it won't affect you (same thing the chief pilots say) unless you're a bad guy but it doesn't change the fact that it's in the contract, and a contract is a contract. There is no negotiation after it's signed - it won't be like the current FSM, BlueBook, or PEA where there is negotiation involved in application.

ALPA has stated that a dependability policy falls outside of the specifics of a CBA , which is why it wasnt negotiated. Do you have confirmation that other airlines have included this in their CBA?

queue
07-03-2018, 01:48 PM
ALPA has stated that a dependability policy falls outside of the specifics of a CBA , which is why it wasnt negotiated. Do you have confirmation that other airlines have included this in their CBA?

Why does it fall outside the specifics of a CBA? Is there a law preventing it from being included? Why should I just accept ALPA's word for it without a reference to a law, and not just some ALPA preference?

Also, does it matter if any other airline has it or doesn't have it? Are we negotiating our contract, or theirs? Is there again some law saying that we can only negotiate what someone else has done?

You see, there are a lot of false choices......


This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 01:58 PM
Why does it fall outside the specifics of a CBA?

I don't know, and I am not familiar with law enough to know if it's restricted or open for inclusion. The simplest answer would be if another carrier has it, then for sure we should have negotiated it as well. I dont mind being the first, but I would need to know if it's even possible. And in one hand, that's why I pay someone 1.9% to know for me.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:05 PM
I don't know, and I am not familiar with law enough to know if it's restricted or open for inclusion. The simplest answer would be if another carrier has it, then for sure we should have negotiated it as well. I dont mind being the first, but I would need to know if it's even possible. And in one hand, that's why I pay someone 1.9% to know for me.


I think they will be hard pressed to find an actual law that says it can't be in a contract :-) In fact, I'm pretty sure they are just are unknowning about it as the average pilot. The company told them "no" and they won't press it further. They will always delude the truth by saying things like "no other airline has it", "its not in the scope of the CBA", and "look, there's Elvis!". You can put anything in a contract, even if it's illegal (however, if challenged in court that contract will be found null and invalidated). In this case, it was merely a preference or lack of knowledge to not include it.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

flyboygt
07-03-2018, 02:08 PM
ALPA has stated that a dependability policy falls outside of the specifics of a CBA , which is why it wasnt negotiated. Do you have confirmation that other airlines have included this in their CBA?

Can you tell me when and where that was stated?
My intent is not to be a d!ck, I honestly want to know?
I'm under a DP review now and minding my P's&Q's

I'm under the impression that if there is no defined limit then it is totally subjective. Definitely a major drawback.
Was this discussed at all in the informational conference?

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 02:16 PM
I think they will be hard pressed to find an actual law that says it can't be in a contract :-) In fact, I'm pretty sure they are just are unknowning about it as the average pilot. The company told them "no" and they won't press it further. They will always delude the truth by saying things like "no other airline has it", "its not in the scope of the CBA", and "look, there's Elvis!". You can put anything in a contract, even if it's illegal (however, if challenged in court that contract will be found null and invalidated). In this case, it was merely a preference or lack of knowledge to not include it.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.


Dude you have gone completely off the rails. No wonder you are worried about the jb doctor provision.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 02:17 PM
Can you tell me when and where that was stated?


Copied from the ALPA FAQ, added within the last few days but not sure exactly when:

Why wasnít the dependability review addressed?

The Pilot Dependability Policy falls outside the bounds of the TA and is not considered a mandatory subject of bargaining under the Railway Labor Act.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:19 PM
Dude you have gone completely off the rails. No wonder you are worried about the jb doctor provision.


Not for me... I'm not the one with cancer and other medical things.


I'm mostly affected by the substandard pay. I've never been in trouble with anybody, ever.


Sorry if anything I've said threatens your worldview.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:20 PM
Copied from the ALPA FAQ, added within the last few days but not sure exactly when:

Why wasn’t the dependability review addressed?

The Pilot Dependability Policy falls outside the bounds of the TA and is not considered a mandatory subject of bargaining under the Railway Labor Act.


So they CHOSE not to... lovely. Who defined the boundaries?



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:26 PM
Cool man!!!!


Oh goodie!


At that to the list of apologist arguments.


The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Cujo665
07-03-2018, 02:30 PM
ALPA has stated that a dependability policy falls outside of the specifics of a CBA , which is why it wasnt negotiated. Do you have confirmation that other airlines have included this in their CBA?

ALPA represents ALPA. They want a signed deal as much as the company. Nothing is outside if both parties agree to it. Contract law 101. Only exception is if itís illegal or was coerced.

Factually, there is recent precedent - within the last year at an ALPA carrier no less - of an agreement to do something the company could not legally require; arbitrator ruled in favor of the company.

Be careful when ALPA lawyers speak. In another case the language was weak, but the lawyers all assured everybody that they had the detailed meeting notes with changes from both sides to clearly show the real intent. Not 2 years later when the company violated the intent and an arbitration was scheduled.... miraculously the lawyers couldnít locate all those detailed notes.

Boeingnotgoing
07-03-2018, 02:30 PM
So they CHOSE not to... lovely. Who defined the boundaries?

I would say by the time it got to mediation anything that wasn't required would be rejected. A mediator isn't there to settle direct business relations, but rather those items required by the RLA. I am also doubtful jetblue is the first airline to have issues with dependability policies so to think ALPA as a whole would be unaware is unlikely. And this being first time a dependability issue has become significant enough to be the first airline to negotiate it would be a shocker as well.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 02:32 PM
Not for me... I'm not the one with cancer and other medical things.


I'm mostly affected by the substandard pay. I've never been in trouble with anybody, ever.


Sorry if anything I've said threatens your worldview.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Happy to hear that you donít have cancer, I would not wish that on anyone. However, I doubt that you are fit to be a pilot with your mental disorder, which is clearly the root cause of your jb doctor worries.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:32 PM
The Pilot Dependability Policy falls outside the bounds of the TA and is not considered a mandatory subject of bargaining under the Railway Labor Act.


Oh yeah... and read the RLA. Try to find a list of "mandatory subjects" listed in the RLA...


Makes you wonder, after reading the RLA, why they even bother to use the RLA in the sentence. Are they trying to use the "authority" tactic to convince you?


Here's the whole RLA text: Railway Labor Act and Section Index (http://railwaylaboract.com/RLA-IndexSect.htm)



And here's the quick read: The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)


They could've just said "we chose not to address it".



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:34 PM
Happy to hear that you donít have cancer, I would not wish that on anyone. However, I doubt that you are fit to be a pilot with your mental disorder, which is clearly the root cause of your jb doctor worries.


Mine or yours? We pay a lot of money for HIMS. Perhaps you need their services?



Again, sorry if my dissent disturbs you. There are safe spaces available for you.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 02:39 PM
Mine or yours? We pay a lot of money for HIMS. Perhaps you need their services?



Again, sorry if my dissent disturbs you. There are safe spaces available for you.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

My safe space is in the back of a jb airplane with gloves on! Where did you go to law school?

somertime32
07-03-2018, 02:46 PM
Sorry guys, my gif post crashed and burned like us during IROPs.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:54 PM
My safe space is in the back of a jb airplane with gloves on! Where did you go to law school?


It doesn't matter where I did or didn't go to law school. If I admitted to having a law degree, then I would be using the authority figure argument, which I don't like. In other words, it would be someone saying "you are wrong and I am right and you can't contest what I say is truth because I'm a PhD, BA, BS, MA, {insert contraction of choice} etc....". So I won't. If someone uses the authority argument, then they are not answering the question. ALPA's response is a non-answer.



Instead, read the RLA. Compare it against what people are telling you is the truth, then call them out on it. ALPA "chose" not to address the Dependability Policy and used the authority argument tactic of mentioning the RLA to get you to not oppose their statement. This is classic politics 101.



Also, read the contract word for word. Flowchart it out, diagram it, find lots of contracts from other industries and compare verbiage. I guarantee you that a high school educated person could understand it all. If they use legal language like "Prima facie" just use Wikipedia and translate it to English. Note: TA 1.0 includes no legal language terms, it's a pretty easy read.


You don't have to believe anything I say, you don't have to respect me, you can call me whatever names you want, you can accuse me of whatever you want, you can turn this into a personality ****ing contest.... but nothing changes the fact of what is written in TA 1.0 and the RLA.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

queue
07-03-2018, 02:56 PM
Sorry guys, my gif post crashed and burned like us during IROPs.


You should resurrect "IROP Pants".





The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Bluedriver
07-03-2018, 02:58 PM
This is flawed logic hilltop. If we donít provide the experience that our customers have come to expect, they wonít buy tickets on our airline. Fewer tickets purchased equals lower ELT compensation and executive bonuses. This will cause turnover at the top resulting in a subpar ELT team taking over, thus ruining our airline.

Way too late. It's already happened, just look at our ELT...

Cavity
07-03-2018, 06:52 PM
I did think about BPF, but I thought with how generous this TA is, why should just the pilots benefit, why not give back some to everyone, continue that caring value?

You should definitely bring up your Caring Value concerns, during the Q&A, at your Pilot base roadshow.
Which one will you be attending? Be sure to introduce yourself.
......Oh wait, you're not a B6 pilot, nevermind.
Schmuck.

PasserOGas
07-03-2018, 07:52 PM
This is flawed logic hilltop. If we donít provide the experience that our customers have come to expect, they wonít buy tickets on our airline. Fewer tickets purchased equals lower ELT compensation and executive bonuses. This will cause turnover at the top resulting in a subpar ELT team taking over, thus ruining our airline.

I love you. #nohomo

Mattio
07-03-2018, 08:23 PM
This thread is hilarious

Cmdrls
07-03-2018, 09:13 PM
I love you. #nohomo

Love you too bro

GuppyPuppy
07-04-2018, 04:33 AM
3 years, LGB 320 FO.
NOT looking fwd to my SODIUM Box every leg.

Watch Moxy take your LGB flying while we use those planes elsewhere in the system.

So long as we grow by 1 pilot/year.

Gup

Softpayman
07-04-2018, 05:50 AM
Watch Moxy take your LGB flying while we use those planes elsewhere in the system.

So long as we grow by 1 pilot/year.

Gup

Why would JB give up LGB flying and the revenue? If it was a loser (as it may be) they'll cut it, if it's winning we have the infrastructure there to capture the lion's share of that revenue. The company isn't going to keep a base around to keep a small group of pilots happy. No company would.

GuppyPuppy
07-04-2018, 06:05 AM
Upper management has shown me that LGB is a money loser (6-7 years ago was the last time I saw those numbers). I think that if it is still a loser, that the Moxy scenario is plausible.

I believe that the company has been hoping for (and at times banking on) the LGB barriers to be lessened so that we could grow there. Maybe they've finally had enough of the LGB B'S.

This contract would give the company the green light to dismantle the LGB domicile. Moxy comes in and there's our feed that we can't profitably operate ourselves.

Gup

expectholding
07-04-2018, 06:07 AM
Moxy cannot "take" our flying, they cannot have our flying, they cannot do our flying. Even if we were to code with them, they are a competitor if its a route we fly, and if its a route we dont, we weren't going to do it anyway, so its not our flying. if the company can fly somewhere profitably, they'll do it, and it'll be ours. if they can fly somewhere profitably frequently, they'll do it and drive the competition out. this has been evidenced. any other carrier can (and many have seen) ASM restrictions met and codeshares expanding, even while the company is drawing down flying (company is less averse to taking on risk). that cant happen with this language.

Boeingnotgoing
07-04-2018, 06:43 AM
You should definitely bring up your Caring Value concerns, during the Q&A, at your Pilot base roadshow.
Which one will you be attending?

Just don't see a need to attend, are they going to convince me to vote yes even more? It'd be worth it if I could get 2 yes votes just for attending. Unless management will be attending so I can spend time with them, it's just not worth it.

Cmdrls
07-04-2018, 07:40 AM
Just don't see a need to attend, are they going to convince me to vote yes even more? It'd be worth it if I could get 2 yes votes just for attending. Unless management will be attending so I can spend time with them, it's just not worth it.

Boeing, you may not be able to score 2 more yes votes for attending, but word on the street has it that JB will be allowing pilots to stay in the JFK hotel accross from T5. I was there a couple of days ago, and it is not completely finished, but let me tell you itís looking BEAUTIFUL!:p. All of the proceeds from your stay stay should bolster our impressive earnings so far this year, and insure that we get MASSIVE profit sharing checks!

Cmdrls
07-04-2018, 07:59 AM
Way too late. It's already happened, just look at our ELT...

What exactly is the problem with our current ELT? It seems as if they bargained in good faith to achieve an agreement that is generous to the pilot group all while maintaining the ability to grow the airline so more people can have the opportunity to enjoy the jetBlue experience. OTP seems to be catching on, and we are seeing marked improvements in our performance as of late. I will concede to you that our performance improvments might have something to do with more favorable treatment from ATC, but again that is most likely due to the ELTís decision to put stickers on the side of some of our planes that called our customers into action.

PasserOGas
07-04-2018, 08:50 AM
What exactly is the problem with our current ELT? It seems as if they bargained in good faith to achieve an agreement that is generous to the pilot group all while maintaining the ability to grow the airline so more people can have the opportunity to enjoy the jetBlue experience. OTP seems to be catching on, and we are seeing marked improvements in our performance as of late. I will concede to you that our performance improvments might have something to do with more favorable treatment from ATC, but again that is most likely due to the ELTís decision to put stickers on the side of some of our planes that called our customers into action.

ROFL.

I like the new guys.

Bozo the pilot
07-04-2018, 09:33 AM
Dude you have gone completely off the rails. No wonder you are worried about the jb doctor provision.

Im starting to really like you. :D

Softpayman
07-04-2018, 10:01 AM
I believe that the company has been hoping for (and at times banking on) the LGB barriers to be lessened so that we could grow there. Maybe they've finally had enough of the LGB B'S.

This contract would give the company the green light to dismantle the LGB domicile. Moxy comes in and there's our feed that we can't profitably operate ourselves.

Gup

If we can't operate it profitably ourselves, the options are....Stay and continue to lose money, or as you state have a codeshare and at least make pennies on the dollar on that as well as feeding the rest of the network.

To keep the LGB flying club open just "because.." makes no sense. LA is still in our future but the city of Long Beach clearly doesn't care.

jstyle13
07-04-2018, 12:09 PM
Just don't see a need to attend, are they going to convince me to vote yes even more? It'd be worth it if I could get 2 yes votes just for attending. Unless management will be attending so I can spend time with them, it's just not worth it.

This guy has got to be one of the best parody accounts Iíve ever seen in 15+ years of online pilot forums. I applaud your work.

Boeingnotgoing
07-04-2018, 02:38 PM
This guy has got to be one of the best parody accounts Iíve ever seen in 15+ years of online pilot forums. I applaud your work.

Why thank you! I always find humor in both sides of any topic.

Bozo the pilot
07-04-2018, 05:57 PM
If we can't operate it profitably ourselves, the options are....Stay and continue to lose money, or as you state have a codeshare and at least make pennies on the dollar on that as well as feeding the rest of the network.

To keep the LGB flying club open just "because.." makes no sense. LA is still in our future but the city of Long Beach clearly doesn't care.

No, didnt you hear? Its Moxy that'll take ALL of our flying, even though it wont exist for at least 2 years. :rolleyes:
And the Yes leaners are the ones acting in fear?!
gmafb.

Tom a Hawk
07-04-2018, 07:08 PM
What exactly is the problem with our current ELT? It seems as if they bargained in good faith to achieve an agreement that is generous to the pilot group all while maintaining the ability to grow the airline so more people can have the opportunity to enjoy the jetBlue experience. OTP seems to be catching on, and we are seeing marked improvements in our performance as of late. I will concede to you that our performance improvments might have something to do with more favorable treatment from ATC, but again that is most likely due to the ELTís decision to put stickers on the side of some of our planes that called our customers into action.

You think OTP is working? You really think that boarding 5 minutes earlier while pushing a 300 million per year cost savings program mainly paid for by removing operational support is IMPROVING our on time performance? We can run an on time airline by not catering and shutting the door whenever we want and leaving people behind so we can push on time. That wonít make us money.

You really think those stickers helped? I spoke with the BOS tower. Iíll just say those stickers didnít make them happy and they are on board with SOP.

queue
07-04-2018, 07:26 PM
What exactly is the problem with our current ELT? It seems as if they bargained in good faith to achieve an agreement that is generous to the pilot group all while maintaining the ability to grow the airline so more people can have the opportunity to enjoy the jetBlue experience. OTP seems to be catching on, and we are seeing marked improvements in our performance as of late. I will concede to you that our performance improvments might have something to do with more favorable treatment from ATC, but again that is most likely due to the ELTís decision to put stickers on the side of some of our planes that called our customers into action.


Wow.... you must be a VP or something.





Bargained in good faith? Ha... the TA is horrible and it took 3+ yrs. Is it good faith to fillabuster for years and to pay employees below market rate for so long while filling them with culture BS? Do you really think we are that dumb?
So more can enjoy the JB experience? Yeah I guess you missed where your heroic middle managers were paying passengers to rat out FA's on surveys. I guess you've missed all those pilots on progressive guidance and that have been suspended.
OTP catching on? Ha! They haven't even made an attempt to fix the root causes of the problems. All they are doing is coercing line workers to make them jump higher while screwing over passengers and making employees hate BJ. That can only go on for so long. If these inept 2.5 GPA MBAs wanted to sabotage this company, they are succeeding.

Try sitting at JFK or BOS without doing someone else's job. See how long it takes you to get catered, to get fueled, to clear out maintenance issues, etc.

The stickers on the side of the airplane do nothing to convince anyone. Even if it offends people, it hasn't caused harm, but it especially hasn't helped in any way. It was all P.R. for the investor's meetings where BJ management blamed their ineptitude on ATC.

No one believes all the "culture" brainwashing/propaganda. If you do, you are a fool.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

PasserOGas
07-04-2018, 07:36 PM
You think OTP is working? You really think that boarding 5 minutes earlier while pushing a 300 million per year cost savings program mainly paid for by removing operational support is IMPROVING our on time performance? We can run an on time airline by not catering and shutting the door whenever we want and leaving people behind so we can push on time. That wonít make us money.

You really think those stickers helped? I spoke with the BOS tower. Iíll just say those stickers didnít make them happy and they are on board with SOP.

He is trolling. Check your sarcasm detector.

Cmdrls
07-05-2018, 02:05 AM
Wow.... you must be a VP or something.





Bargained in good faith? Ha... the TA is horrible and it took 3+ yrs. Is it good faith to fillabuster for years and to pay employees below market rate for so long while filling them with culture BS? Do you really think we are that dumb?
So more can enjoy the JB experience? Yeah I guess you missed where your heroic middle managers were paying passengers to rat out FA's on surveys. I guess you've missed all those pilots on progressive guidance and that have been suspended.
OTP catching on? Ha! They haven't even made an attempt to fix the root causes of the problems. All they are doing is coercing line workers to make them jump higher while screwing over passengers and making employees hate BJ. That can only go on for so long. If these inept 2.5 GPA MBAs wanted to sabotage this company, they are succeeding.

Try sitting at JFK or BOS without doing someone else's job. See how long it takes you to get catered, to get fueled, to clear out maintenance issues, etc.

The stickers on the side of the airplane do nothing to convince anyone. Even if it offends people, it hasn't caused harm, but it especially hasn't helped in any way. It was all P.R. for the investor's meetings where BJ management blamed their ineptitude on ATC.

No one believes all the "culture" brainwashing/propaganda. If you do, you are a fool.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

I honestly donít think it is possible for me to lay on the sarcasm/trolling any thicker than I have. Maybe boeingnotgoing can (he is clearly much better at this than I am) but sadly, I am not capable of making it any more obvious. Maybe one day!

Happy Jetting.

Bozo the pilot
07-05-2018, 06:20 AM
I honestly donít think it is possible for me to lay on the sarcasm/trolling any thicker than I have. Maybe boeingnotgoing can (he is clearly much better at this than I am) but sadly, I am not capable of making it any more obvious. Maybe one day!

Happy Jetting.

Well done- Most of us got it. :)

Bluedriver
07-05-2018, 09:10 AM
No, didnt you hear? Its Moxy that'll take ALL of our flying, even though it wont exist for at least 2 years. :rolleyes:
And the Yes leaners are the ones acting in fear?!
gmafb.

That argument has not been made by anyone. You guys are choosing not to hear that actual likely scenarios with Alaska and Moxy. Exaggerating and changing the key points simply make you look as if you are unable to comprehend the possible scenarios.

Bozo the pilot
07-05-2018, 12:12 PM
That argument has not been made by anyone. You guys are choosing not to hear that actual likely scenarios with Alaska and Moxy. Exaggerating and changing the key points simply make you look as if you are unable to comprehend the possible scenarios.

Now you're the exaggeration police?
Who's after you?;)



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