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View Full Version : Remember when


N311JB
07-04-2018, 10:15 AM
Remember when the company graciously gave us an 8% pay raise in lieu of cutting profit sharing? we just found out which is harder to negotiate: pay rates or profit sharing. You vote yes, you’ll never see profit sharing come up again in the entirety of your career.


nuball5
07-04-2018, 10:27 AM
Remember when the company graciously gave us an 8% pay raise in lieu of cutting profit sharing? we just found out which is harder to negotiate: pay rates or profit sharing. You vote yes, you’ll never see profit sharing come up again in the entirety of your career.

Our profit sharing stinks compared to Swa, Dal, Ual. I don't think the MEC thinks they'll ever get more profit sharing from the company though, even with a No vote. If they give us more profit sharing, they're gonna have to do it for AO, GO, Inflight etc. I think we all know JB doesn't wanna do that.

Bozo the pilot
07-04-2018, 12:53 PM
Remember when the company graciously gave us an 8% pay raise in lieu of cutting profit sharing? we just found out which is harder to negotiate: pay rates or profit sharing. You vote yes, you’ll never see profit sharing come up again in the entirety of your career.

We're not going to see PS or health care improvements no matter how we vote. Theyll just cough up more bonus money.
Obviously no one knows what theyll do after a rejection. I wouldnt count on them "bringing it" though.


jtrain609
07-04-2018, 01:06 PM
We're not going to see PS or health care improvements no matter how we vote. Theyll just cough up more bonus money.
Obviously no one knows what theyll do after a rejection. I wouldnt count on them "bringing it" though.

If I were them and this TA wasn't ratified, I'd sign an agreement to transfer the 190's to one of the dying regionals. Compass operates the same aircraft, and I won't be surprised to see them lose all their flying in a few years. It'd be seamless.

And this isn't fear mongering, it's just an application of economic violence against someone who won't do what you want. Violence like that is nothing more than a tool to be used to get what you need.

If guys don't think Joanna has been trained to do this, they don't know any lawyers.

queue
07-04-2018, 01:19 PM
Our profit sharing stinks compared to Swa, Dal, Ual. I don't think the MEC thinks they'll ever get more profit sharing from the company though, even with a No vote. If they give us more profit sharing, they're gonna have to do it for AO, GO, Inflight etc. I think we all know JB doesn't wanna do that.


BJ will not do anything unless they are forced to. Having friendly meetings where we put our "requests" and letting them say No, then voting Yes for a substandard contract won't get us anything.


If we want something, we must become a market force to be reckoned with. Notice how a strategic informational picket, or the mere threat of it, resulted in a TA magically becoming an option. BJ won't budge unless people know about our dispute. We don't need to strike to do that. If TA 1.0 is voted down (and it should), we need to exert pressure continuously and without backing down. In other words, we can never allow our MEC to cancel an informational picket again. Clearly they do not have the resolve to fight an actual battle, as accomplished facts now demonstrate. We must demand through Voting NO that our MEC put their money where their mouth is. Doing informational pickets costs us virtually nothing and is very easy. We're not standing in front of tanks in Tienanmen square. We are fighting first world problems - if we don't get treated as professional pilots, it is our fault alone. All we have to do is draw a line in the sand and say NO, to which BJ will be forced to react by external pressures THEY are under.



Remember the RLA gives us virtually unlimited options even before a strike. BJ wants to go to Europe, they want to buy CS100s, and they need to deal with FAs now too. Their stock is perpetually in the toilet and during every investor meeting, BJ management is scrutinized for their labor relations. Our goal must be to leverage these circumstances to get them to agree to our demands. So far we have leveraged virtually nothing and that is our fault. It's time to hold our elected ALPA servants accountable. They want to pat themselves on the back for a horrible TA 1.0 and we must not allow them to. They've already given us excuses and non-sensical responses as to why profit sharing was not touched... guess what... their response should not have alluded to the RLA as it is not the reason for them not pushing the issue. Are they relying on our ignorance? Please read the RLA and pay attention to how many "voluntary" junctures there are... hint: 100% voluntary decision points.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

Bozo the pilot
07-04-2018, 01:20 PM
If I were them and this TA wasn't ratified, I'd sign an agreement to transfer the 190's to one of the dying regionals. Compass operates the same aircraft, and I won't be surprised to see them lose all their flying in a few years. It'd be seamless.

And this isn't fear mongering, it's just an application of economic violence against someone who won't do what you want. Violence like that is nothing more than a tool to be used to get what you need.

If guys don't think Joanna has been trained to do this, they don't know any lawyers.

NO jtrain,
B6 will be so scared that theyll upgrade our healthcare, give us leading profit sharing and 4% COLA. If we vote NO 60%+, I bet they give us 150 mill bonus.
We have ALL the leverage....dont we? :D
No we dont.
Good post J

queue
07-04-2018, 01:21 PM
If I were them and this TA wasn't ratified, I'd sign an agreement to transfer the 190's to one of the dying regionals. Compass operates the same aircraft, and I won't be surprised to see them lose all their flying in a few years. It'd be seamless.

And this isn't fear mongering, it's just an application of economic violence against someone who won't do what you want. Violence like that is nothing more than a tool to be used to get what you need.

If guys don't think Joanna has been trained to do this, they don't know any lawyers.


Trying to scare us into waiving the white flag?


Game on.


Joanna is nothing but an low rent exec. that is easy to deal with. You'll see.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

jtrain609
07-04-2018, 01:21 PM
NO jtrain,
B6 will be so scared that theyll upgrade our healthcare, give us leading profit sharing and 4% COLA. If we vote NO 60%+, I bet they give us 150 mill bonus.
We have ALL the leverage....dont we? :D
No we dont.
Good post J

Exactly.

We have leverage, and we've used it for the most important thing in the contract; scope.

Nothing else matters.

queue
07-04-2018, 01:23 PM
We're not going to see PS or health care improvements no matter how we vote. Theyll just cough up more bonus money.
Obviously no one knows what theyll do after a rejection. I wouldnt count on them "bringing it" though.


Textbook defeatist.


Don't let this F&H operative scare you with hypotheticals.



The Railway Labor Act Simplified (http://pennfedbmwe.org/Docs/reference/RLA_Simplified.html)



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.

rvr1800
07-04-2018, 03:07 PM
If I were them and this TA wasn't ratified, I'd sign an agreement to transfer the 190's to one of the dying regionals. Compass operates the same aircraft, and I won't be surprised to see them lose all their flying in a few years. It'd be seamless.

And this isn't fear mongering, it's just an application of economic violence against someone who won't do what you want. Violence like that is nothing more than a tool to be used to get what you need.

If guys don't think Joanna has been trained to do this, they don't know any lawyers.

No that would be fear mongering. That would be a status quo violation. As a probable yes voter I still gotta call you out on that.

jtrain609
07-04-2018, 04:27 PM
No that would be fear mongering. That would be a status quo violation. As a probable yes voter I still gotta call you out on that.

Explain that one. What status quo do we have right now without an agreement? Sure fragmentation langauge with the aircraft, just means you can bid to go with it.

queue
07-04-2018, 04:32 PM
Exactly.

We have leverage, and we've used it for the most important thing in the contract; scope.

Nothing else matters.


There are many other things that are just as important. You can't just cherry pick 2 things and say everything else is negotiable.



Pay & Rules.



This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.



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