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Mattio
07-05-2018, 08:24 PM
Some people have said that a good contract should be at least 300 pages (so it has enough language). Our TA is 226 pages if you don't count the LOA's and 273 pages if you do (including a long letter from the FAA). However, page count doesn't seem like the best yardstick because there could be different fonts, spacing, etc. I thought it'd be more scientific and interesting to see how the word count compared to the contracts at our peer airlines. Hopefully our counterparts over there can help us out.

To figure out the word count in TA 2018:

- I copy and pasted the PDF into OpenOffice and then used the word count tool
- I didn't include the title page and table of contents
- Definitions were included

TA '18 not including LOA's - 63,062 words (according to OpenOffice)
TA '18 including LOA's except the Fatigue Risk Management Program (wouldn't let me select and copy for some reason) - 69,754 words (according to OpenOffice)

Can any of our counterparts over at the following airlines chime in and help us compare:
Alaska:
American:
Delta:
Hawaiian:
Southwest:
Spirit:
United:

If we have a couple people from each airline (including B6) let us know what they got, we can error-check. Thank you!!


jcountry
07-06-2018, 03:34 AM
Who cares?

There are lots of words in our scheduling section. Could be shortened to just ďyouíre screwed.Ē

Seriously. Word count means practically nothing. Our contract has not implementation deadlines, for example. There are parts which clearly will never be implemented.

Word count is useless. Without strong language, those words mean squat.

Mattio
07-06-2018, 04:00 AM
Which airline?


Skypilotsv1984
07-06-2018, 05:25 AM
Itís summertime, go fishing or something.

captjns
07-06-2018, 05:32 AM
Some people have said that a good contract should be at least 300 pages (so it has enough language). Our TA is 226 pages if you don't count the LOA's and 273 pages if you do (including a long letter from the FAA). However, page count doesn't seem like the best yardstick because there could be different fonts, spacing, etc. I thought it'd be more scientific and interesting to see how the word count compared to the contracts at our peer airlines. Hopefully our counterparts over there can help us out.

To figure out the word count in TA 2018:

- I copy and pasted the PDF into OpenOffice and then used the word count tool
- I didn't include the title page and table of contents
- Definitions were included

TA '18 not including LOA's - 63,062 words (according to OpenOffice)
TA '18 including LOA's except the Fatigue Risk Management Program (wouldn't let me select and copy for some reason) - 69,754 words (according to OpenOffice)

Can any of our counterparts over at the following airlines chime in and help us compare:
Alaska:
American:
Delta:
Hawaiian:
Southwest:
Spirit:
United:

If we have a couple people from each airline (including B6) let us know what they got, we can error-check. Thank you!!

Word count?!?! Your time could be better spent by melting two small bars of soap into one.

labbats
07-06-2018, 06:34 AM
Word count?!?! Your time could be better spent by melting two small bars of soap into one.

Super soap. Genius

Mattio
07-06-2018, 08:25 AM
Took me all of 5 minutes to figure it out. It's not the best measure of a contract for sure, but it would be interesting to compare.

Newstick189
07-06-2018, 08:29 AM
You must be a hoot to fly with...

Mattio
07-06-2018, 09:03 AM
You must be a hoot to fly with...

You must be an a-hole

Sliceback
07-06-2018, 09:52 AM
More words is better? Ridiculous. X words is the sweet spot? Ridiculous.

Our Scope used to say ďall flying done for AA will be done by APA pilots.Ē Now itís thousands of words. In your book thatís better? Read up on the current Scope agreements and report back.

Mattio
07-06-2018, 01:16 PM
I realize the scope is one section where there may be no correlation or a negative correlation. However, that's only one section out of 31 or so. I never said I believed there was any correlation between the total amount of language and quality of contract. I said other people claim there is. It was merely an educational pursuit. To those who say I'm wasting my time by spending a few minutes asking a question online, what does that make you? Spending your time on an internet forum telling other people they're wasting their time... ;-)

NYC Pilot
07-06-2018, 05:11 PM
Hahahahahahahahaha! This is some funny stuff! Wow, just when I thought I saw it all. Good luck in your endeavors Mattio!

detpilot
07-06-2018, 08:04 PM
Super soap. GeniusGonna try this tonight!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

captjns
07-07-2018, 03:22 AM
Gonna try this tonight!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

Almost as much fun as watching the paint dry.

John Carr
07-07-2018, 09:40 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BcHSt3J1hs

jcountry
07-08-2018, 04:24 AM
In other news:

An equally vital metric has been ascertained:

I give you-The Weight Of a Fart:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/72672/how-much-does-fart-weigh

TransWorld
07-08-2018, 06:15 AM
In other news:

An equally vital metric has been ascertained:

I give you-The Weight Of a Fart:

How Much Does a Fart Weigh? | Mental Floss (http://mentalfloss.com/article/72672/how-much-does-fart-weigh)

Iím certain someone will suggest a correlation between proficiency as a pilot and volume of daily farts. I just donít know if it is a direct or inverse correlation.

jcountry
07-08-2018, 07:02 AM
Iím certain someone will suggest a correlation between proficiency as a pilot and volume of daily farts. I just donít know if it is a direct or inverse correlation.

I'm pretty sure I know.

I have never flown with any gassy old bastard who was worth a wet fart.

Lou Turk
07-08-2018, 08:01 AM
Some people have said that a good contract should be at least 300 pages (so it has enough language). Our TA is 226 pages if you don't count the LOA's and 273 pages if you do (including a long letter from the FAA). However, page count doesn't seem like the best yardstick because there could be different fonts, spacing, etc. I thought it'd be more scientific and interesting to see how the word count compared to the contracts at our peer airlines. Hopefully our counterparts over there can help us out.

To figure out the word count in TA 2018:

- I copy and pasted the PDF into OpenOffice and then used the word count tool
- I didn't include the title page and table of contents
- Definitions were included

TA '18 not including LOA's - 63,062 words (according to OpenOffice)
TA '18 including LOA's except the Fatigue Risk Management Program (wouldn't let me select and copy for some reason) - 69,754 words (according to OpenOffice)

Can any of our counterparts over at the following airlines chime in and help us compare:
Alaska:
American:
Delta:
Hawaiian:
Southwest:
Spirit:
United:

If we have a couple people from each airline (including B6) let us know what they got, we can error-check. Thank you!!
The number of words is important, but so is getting them in the right order. https://youtu.be/n1MywHGxMtM

O2pilot
07-08-2018, 11:04 AM
Word count?!?! Your time could be better spent by melting two small bars of soap into one.

Their new contract is so bad they are trying to frantically find redeeming things in it.