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View Full Version : making you pay for hotel


yeeeyeee
07-07-2018, 06:30 PM
Who else has to pay for their own hotel while interviewing with Skywest? Every other regional has paid for it. Why is Skywest seriously trying to be cheap ***holes.


Quarryman
07-07-2018, 06:54 PM
Who else has to pay for their own hotel while interviewing with Skywest? Every other regional has paid for it. Why is Skywest seriously trying to be cheap ***holes.

Wait until you get your double occupancy room during training.

zondaracer
07-07-2018, 07:10 PM
Who else has to pay for their own hotel while interviewing with Skywest? Every other regional has paid for it. Why is Skywest seriously trying to be cheap ***holes.

Because people still come here. 77 new hires in June.


Excargodog
07-07-2018, 07:36 PM
Wait until you get your double occupancy room during training.



With Pay: $37.23/hr with 65hr guarantee in Training


On CRJ fleet, all soft time (vacation, sick, deadhead, min day credit, training, etc) are paid at CBR (CRJ Base Rate, aka. CRJ 200).

saywhat
07-07-2018, 07:49 PM
I have to say, I am looking at regionals right now. My first concern is location and SkyWest has always been at the top of my list. BUT, the company is really losing its luster. I am on older guy (49) able to retire from my current flying job, and sharing a hotel room during training is a HUGE no go. I really hope that management there realizes they aren't the only game in town (West Coast) and that the Skywest reputation wont carry them forever.

Good luck to all you current SkyWest drivers! Hope you get the improvements you deserve

amcnd
07-08-2018, 05:59 AM
We have heard it all.. SkyWest is still ran like a 550 count pilot group airline. That should sum it up.. I think there is a glimmer of hope ahead of us.l, with regards to QOL. Will see. But im hearing. No picking up extra block hours from our partners to gelp out the competition that canít suport themselves..

Excargodog
07-08-2018, 06:17 AM
We have heard it all.. SkyWest is still ran like a 550 count pilot group airline. That should sum it up... But im hearing. No picking up extra block hours from our partners to gelp out the competition that canít suport themselves..

Which would be good for all pilots since the demise of regional flying would eventually force the majors to take this flying back and hire the pilots to staff it.

gojo
07-08-2018, 07:18 AM
We have heard it all.. SkyWest is still ran like a 550 count pilot group airline. That should sum it up.. I think there is a glimmer of hope ahead of us.l, with regards to QOL. Will see. But im hearing. No picking up extra block hours from our partners to gelp out the competition that canít suport themselves..

Delta is going to love that.

flywithjohn
07-08-2018, 07:52 AM
Which would be good for all pilots since the demise of regional flying would eventually force the majors to take this flying back and hire the pilots to staff it.

Never happening - will still be cheaper to buy a WO regional and staff that. Itís not just pilot group that costs a lot. Regional airline difference from mainline? Same job, one third the cost all around and when itís time - shut it down open a new one.

Excargodog
07-08-2018, 07:53 AM
Delta is going to love that.

And yet for regional pilots as a group it would be a great thing. A year ago, when Horizon was cutting back flying by 30% because of p/$$-poor management causing them to be short of pilots, the ability of Alaska to shift that flying to Skywest kept Alaska from having to either fix their Horizon management problems or bring the scope back to mainline.

Most of us believe that the system exploits all regional pilots who basically do the same job as the mainline pilots at a third (or less) of the salary. As one of the biggest and lowest paying of the regionals, those pilots working at Skywest tend to hold down pay and benefits for all of us by being willing to do that work for less. But it's more than that. The biggies (OK, Alaska is a relative biggie) can keep their own wholly owned pilots under contro just like Alaska did, by shifting their workload to Skywest to keep Horizon under control.

The whole regional codeshare system is a house of cards, but it is propped up by the ability of the mainline to play one regional against the other.

trip
07-08-2018, 08:22 AM
We have heard it all.. SkyWest is still ran like a 550 count pilot group airline. That should sum it up.. I think there is a glimmer of hope ahead of us.l, with regards to QOL. Will see. But im hearing. No picking up extra block hours from our partners to gelp out the competition that canít suport themselves..

They can pick up all the block hours they want to handle, they just need to share the added wealth with appropriate additional compensation agreed to by the employees whom will make it happen. Not force it on the employee with increased bid awards and denied schedule adjustments. I guess they still donít get it, sigh... RJ is not representative of the vast majority of the pilot group.

moflyer
07-11-2018, 07:14 AM
I had to pay for my hotel room when I interviewed at a major airline. During training they paid for a nice hotel in Dallas, we also got full guarantee. As long as people are coming through the door SkyWest will not change how they do things.

amcnd
07-11-2018, 07:33 AM
They can pick up all the block hours they want to handle, they just need to share the added wealth with appropriate additional compensation agreed to by the employees whom will make it happen. Not force it on the employee with increased bid awards and denied schedule adjustments. I guess they still donít get it, sigh... RJ is not representative of the vast majority of the pilot group.

Time for RJ to go.. if we could magically staff 500 more CRJ pilots right now on the list. All out problems would go away.. (as long as they donít take on more block hours)

TimetoClimb
07-11-2018, 08:19 AM
Time for RJ to go.. if we could magically staff 500 more CRJ pilots right now on the list. All out problems would go away.. (as long as they donít take on more block hours)

Looks like from the august RSR the erj fo reserve percentages dropped below that of crj fo . This may not mean erj has dipped into crj staffing levels (FO side) or it may ?

N1234
07-11-2018, 08:24 AM
Time for RJ to go.. if we could magically staff 500 more CRJ pilots right now on the list. All out problems would go away.. (as long as they donít take on more block hours)

The company thinks that all is fine ... they don't see any issues.

WesternSkies
07-11-2018, 12:37 PM
Looks like from the august RSR the erj fo reserve percentages dropped below that of crj fo . This may not mean erj has dipped into crj staffing levels (FO side) or it may ?

Funny. You know I havenít heard people complaining on APC of not flying for a while now. Kinda makes the people who picked the CRJ in the last 6 months to ďget hoursĒ suckers.

I think there was a message ďfrom the topĒ rope hinting that they donít plan on picking up as much coverage flying this winter as last.

Melit
07-12-2018, 05:27 AM
Who else has to pay for their own hotel while interviewing with Skywest? Every other regional has paid for it. Why is Skywest seriously trying to be cheap ***holes.

Kinda misleading isn't it? They don't "make" you pay for a hotel. It's your choice to interview with them. It's on you to decide if you need a room or not. Then to call them cheap ***holes they probably don't want a millennial like you anyway...:)

Hou757
07-12-2018, 06:23 AM
Skywest still has you guys sharing a room during training? Seriously?

N1CEandEZ
07-12-2018, 07:52 AM
Skywest still has you guys sharing a room during training? Seriously?

No, they put us in suite configurations. I had my own room and bathroom and shared a kitchen and living room with a classmate.

saxman66
07-12-2018, 08:40 AM
I don't we'll get any QOL improvements or raises until we have a meltdown and flights cancel, aka Horizon and Republic a year or two ago. Thus far they've been able to keep the operation going with minimal cancellations. But, it's come at the expense of us all working our butts off with little breaks. When I first upgraded, I was so burnt out from working 6 day trips with only two days off in between. I just called in fatigued that last day and went home a couple times. Key is to make sure you are fit to fly.

SGS233
07-12-2018, 08:59 AM
No, they put us in suite configurations. I had my own room and bathroom and shared a kitchen and living room with a classmate.

Was this for E175 or CRJ training, please?

SW was on my short list. My biggest issue was having a roommate during training. (I'm more than happy to work with someone 14+ hours a day. Sleep in the same room with them... not so much.)

I reached out to a recruiter to confirm the accommodation situation. This was the reply I received on 28 June.

--- ---
Yes, we have double occupancy. But if you want single, you can pay half of the costs for that.

For the room setting, it depends on which hotel. But you will need to share bathroom for sure.

I am not sure, it depends on the roommates. I cannot predict if your future roommate is going to be nice or annoying.

If you do not feel comfortable to share room and bathroom, please choose the single room.

Thank you,

--- ---

Bravix
07-12-2018, 09:45 AM
Was this for E175 or CRJ training, please?

SW was on my short list. My biggest issue was having a roommate during training. (I'm more than happy to work with someone 14+ hours a day. Sleep in the same room with them... not so much.)

I reached out to a recruiter to confirm the accommodation situation. This was the reply I received on 28 June.

--- ---
Yes, we have double occupancy. But if you want single, you can pay half of the costs for that.

For the room setting, it depends on which hotel. But you will need to share bathroom for sure.

I am not sure, it depends on the roommates. I cannot predict if your future roommate is going to be nice or annoying.

If you do not feel comfortable to share room and bathroom, please choose the single room.

Thank you,

--- ---

Don't know how that could be possible if its SLC and they're still using either of the two hotels they've been using. Candlewood is most common and it has 1 bedroom and a living room with kitchen. One person gets a bedroom with door, the other gets the living room (with bed) in full sight of the kitchen and bathroom. Better hope your roommate doesn't get up a lot during the night!

Denver hotel I was briefly at had a shared bedroom with a separate living room.

ninerdriver
07-12-2018, 10:14 AM
No, they put us in suite configurations. I had my own room and bathroom and shared a kitchen and living room with a classmate.

For the record, that's considered sharing a room at most airlines.

Hou757
07-12-2018, 10:30 AM
For the record, that's considered sharing a room at most airlines.


Agree! That is sharing a room.

TroutBum
07-12-2018, 10:31 AM
For the record, that's considered sharing a room at most airlines.

Just curious. What kind of single accommodations do they normally have at other airlines? A standard hotel room or an extended stay place with kitchenette, fridge, etc?

flydiamond
07-12-2018, 10:46 AM
Just curious. What kind of single accommodations do they normally have at other airlines? A standard hotel room or an extended stay place with kitchenette, fridge, etc?

At Endeavor i stayed at the Crowne Plaza for 2 nights of Indoc (standard hotel room), 1 bedroom single occupancy Residence Inn for three weeks for systems (bedroom was separate from full kitchen), then a studio at Marriott Towne Place Suites for a month for sims (full kitchen). Itís in the contract that long term training requires an extended stay type place here (kitchen). Everything was single occupancy of course, and it blows my mind Skywest is still doing double occupancy. Lots of guys were able to have their families come visit and stay in their rooms (they all had a pull out sofa) during the weekends... a much better option than going home.

TroutBum
07-12-2018, 10:50 AM
At Endeavor i stayed at the Crowne Plaza for 2 nights of Indoc (standard hotel room), 1 bedroom single occupancy Residence Inn for three weeks for systems (bedroom was separate from full kitchen), then a studio at Marriott Towne Place Suites for a month for sims (full kitchen). Itís in the contract that long term training requires an extended stay type place here (kitchen). Everything was single occupancy of course, and it blows my mind Skywest is still doing single occupancy. Lots of guys were able to have their families come visit and stay in their rooms (they all had a pull out sofa) during the weekends... a much better option than going home.

Got it. The kitchen sounds nice. 6-8 weeks of food from hotel restaurants and the typical surrounding chain restaurants would be horrific.

Knobcrk1
07-12-2018, 11:31 AM
If I remember correctly though you could request single based on some criteria. Also I think you could pay the difference if you wanted single.

DelTacoBowl
07-12-2018, 11:38 AM
Not me, I SHARED a room. As in, the dudes bed was RIGHT NEXT to mine. We had a kitchenette and a common area, but we shared a bathroom and shared a sleeping space. It was like boy scout camp or something. They preached professionalism (and anti-union(ism)) all day in indoc and then sent us to our boy scout summer camp rooms to sleep at night. Cheap cheesy, and COMPLETELY indicative of how this company operates.

That's called sharing a room.

Hou757
07-12-2018, 02:52 PM
Yep, your website states double occupancy. That sucks for new hires!!

WesternSkies
07-12-2018, 03:04 PM
Yep, your website states double occupancy. That sucks for new hires!!

Yes it does, though better than being on the expressjet seniority list. Can you confirm?

amcnd
07-12-2018, 04:16 PM
Yep, your website states double occupancy. That sucks for new hires!!

I know the training ladies have stated that its also quantity of rooms available issues.. we have more volume of training then say a 600 pilot list regional.. Yet they still treat us like were that size..

Hou757
07-12-2018, 04:36 PM
Yes it does, though better than being on the expressjet seniority list. Can you confirm?


I can confirm that most Expressjet folks would rather be on the XJT seniority list than SkyWest. (exception to those that live out West)

moflyer
07-12-2018, 04:46 PM
I know the training ladies have stated that its also quantity of rooms available issues.. we have more volume of training then say a 600 pilot list regional.. Yet they still treat us like were that size..


Southwest hired almost 1,000 pilots last year, everyone got a their own room. With training split between SLC and DEN, SkyWest is just being cheap. Iím amazed they still do this from a liability standpoint.

Check Complete
07-12-2018, 07:12 PM
Just keep in mind that thereís not always extra rooms available even if you want to pay for it. You may just be rooming with someone you donít know without a choice.

Keeping it professional!

Utah
07-12-2018, 10:55 PM
There's a reason they do this and it's not just money. They want to know that you're willing to be treated like crap.

mking84
07-13-2018, 05:55 AM
And yet for regional pilots as a group it would be a great thing. A year ago, when Horizon was cutting back flying by 30% because of p/$$-poor management causing them to be short of pilots, the ability of Alaska to shift that flying to Skywest kept Alaska from having to either fix their Horizon management problems or bring the scope back to mainline.

Most of us believe that the system exploits all regional pilots who basically do the same job as the mainline pilots at a third (or less) of the salary. As one of the biggest and lowest paying of the regionals, those pilots working at Skywest tend to hold down pay and benefits for all of us by being willing to do that work for less. But it's more than that. The biggies (OK, Alaska is a relative biggie) can keep their own wholly owned pilots under contro just like Alaska did, by shifting their workload to Skywest to keep Horizon under control.

The whole regional codeshare system is a house of cards, but it is propped up by the ability of the mainline to play one regional against the other.

Ah yes. What a good think SkyWest was there for Alaska to prevent flying from being done by seniority list pilots.

Do you even understand or know what a codeshare is?

dera
07-13-2018, 06:02 AM
Also I think you could pay the difference if you wanted single.

Yeah, with the $37/hr first year FO pay. :D

WesternSkies
07-13-2018, 06:47 AM
Iím amazed they still do this from a liability standpoint.


We could have much more efficient trips if we could swap into all variants by splitting with the FAs too.
Also a liability

Check Complete
07-13-2018, 09:30 AM
There's a reason they do this and it's not just money. They want to know that you're willing to be treated like crap.


^^^^^^
A lot of truth to that statement!!!!!

Air Stang 7
07-13-2018, 12:01 PM
In all seriousness, this was the one thing I kept thinking about when I made my decision to not go to 00. If they don't offer a single occupancy room when even the lowest bottom feeders were at the time, what else will they not offer that everyone else does? I dodged a bullet and sincerely wish you folks there good luck in securing industry average or better.

Melit
07-13-2018, 12:12 PM
In all seriousness, this was the one thing I kept thinking about when I made my decision to not go to 00. If they don't offer a single occupancy room when even the lowest bottom feeders were at the time, what else will they not offer that everyone else does? I dodged a bullet and sincerely wish you folks there good luck in securing industry average or better.
You're so dramatic don't ya think?

Melit
07-13-2018, 12:17 PM
There's a reason they do this and it's not just money. They want to know that you're willing to be treated like crap.
They do it so you get use to living in a crash pad with ten dudes..:D

skypine27
07-14-2018, 12:45 AM
Just curious. What kind of single accommodations do they normally have at other airlines? A standard hotel room or an extended stay place with kitchenette, fridge, etc?
Iím an exSkywest guy with friends still stuck there so occasionally I read some skywest threads. FYI: At FedEX new hires get....nothing. No paid hotel room at all, itís entirely on your own. We also donít pay for anything at all for the interview either. No hotel, no paid tickets, nothing.

Excargodog
07-14-2018, 07:16 AM
I’m an exSkywest guy with friends still stuck there so occasionally I read some skywest threads. FYI: At FedEX new hires get....nothing. No paid hotel room at all, it’s entirely on your own. We also don’t pay for anything at all for the interview either. No hotel, no paid tickets, nothing.


Yeah. And second year FO pay is only$141/hr in the 757. $172 an hour in everything else? Plus $8 an hour for international flying? And over $3/hr per Diem.

Skywest starts paying those rates they have an excuse for not buying you a hotel room, which under their contract would cost them maybe $60 a night. Right now they don't.

The fact is, they aren't competitive with the regional competition. That's what counts.

amcnd
07-14-2018, 07:25 AM
Half the complainers probably have no intention on working for SKW. If your family is in a SKW base and you want to work there, $60 isnít going to make you go to Republic to commute to a outstation base on the east coast...

Excargodog
07-14-2018, 09:02 AM
Half the complainers probably have no intention on working for SKW. If your family is in a SKW base and you want to work there, $60 isn’t going to make you go to Republic to commute to a outstation base on the east coast...

Nor will being a Skywest pilot guarantee you won't sit reserve in a crash pad in LGA as an FO, and for damn sure not as a junior captain.

Don't get me wrong, there is nothing about Skywest that is uniquely bad. Uniquely cheap, maybe, but not uniquely bad. It's just that they could play the SkyWEST geographic basing card a lot more effectively before so much of their flying moved east.

And the percentage of pilots that voted down the last proposal pretty much shows that even their own pilot employees realize the company is being uniquely cheap in the current competitive environment.

Locked in by their own seniority, the current pilots may want newbies to keep coming to Skywest anyway, to keep the place going at least long enough for them to get their upgrades and TPIC until they can get out, but they clearly know the money isn't really competitive any more.

2tofly
07-14-2018, 09:23 AM
Skywest still has you guys sharing a room during training? Seriously?

The double occupancy is only for the first 3 weeks. Iím 51 and did it and am retired Army so if anybody should hate it it would be me. You can purchase your own room and Skywest will contribute. Once I found out it was only for the first 3 weeks I sucked it up. You get your own room for FTD and sims. Unless I am wrong, I have been told at Delta you have to pay for your hotel the entire training footprint. Bottom line is this - I came to Skywest because it IS a good company ran by shrewd and successful business people. 46 years of operating proves that. I could have went anywhere but I chose here. I came here after 29 years of helicopter flying (20 mil and 9 civilian). I started in fixed wing in the mid 80s but there were NO jobs. If you donít like it go somewhere else. I can say that the good here far outweighs the bad. We are ALL underpaid in this industry. Like working at a fast food joint for minimum wage, the regionals are meant to be a stepping stone to cargo, corporate, or the majors. If any of us were running this show weíd do the exact same thing. We are still recruiting and filling classes so until that well dries up why would management change? Like all publicly traded companies throughout the world they are trying to maximize PROFIT. I took $100K pay CUT to come here and Iím glad I did. It will get better. This is still the best job in the world. Iíd rather do it for $40K than sit behind a keyboard ANY DAY.

Nordopilot
07-14-2018, 10:19 AM
The double occupancy is only for the first 3 weeks. Iím 51 and did it and am retired Army so if anybody should hate it it would be me. You can purchase your own room and Skywest will contribute. Once I found out it was only for the first 3 weeks I sucked it up. You get your own room for FTD and sims. Unless I am wrong, I have been told at Delta you have to pay for your hotel the entire training footprint. Bottom line is this - I came to Skywest because it IS a good company ran by shrewd and successful business people. 46 years of operating proves that. I could have went anywhere but I chose here. I came here after 29 years of helicopter flying (20 mil and 9 civilian). I started in fixed wing in the mid 80s but there were NO jobs. If you donít like it go somewhere else. I can say that the good here far outweighs the bad. We are ALL underpaid in this industry. Like working at a fast food joint for minimum wage, the regionals are meant to be a stepping stone to cargo, corporate, or the majors. If any of us were running this show weíd do the exact same thing. We are still recruiting and filling classes so until that well dries up why would management change? Like all publicly traded companies throughout the world they are trying to maximize PROFIT. I took $100K pay CUT to come here and Iím glad I did. It will get better. This is still the best job in the world. Iíd rather do it for $40K than sit behind a keyboard ANY DAY.

Now that's a realistic and positive attitude to have of the regional industry as a whole. Your CAs are lucky to fly with you.

RJDio
07-14-2018, 12:48 PM
The double occupancy is only for the first 3 weeks. Iím 51 and did it and am retired Army so if anybody should hate it it would be me. You can purchase your own room and Skywest will contribute. Once I found out it was only for the first 3 weeks I sucked it up. You get your own room for FTD and sims. Unless I am wrong, I have been told at Delta you have to pay for your hotel the entire training footprint. Bottom line is this - I came to Skywest because it IS a good company ran by shrewd and successful business people. 46 years of operating proves that. I could have went anywhere but I chose here. I came here after 29 years of helicopter flying (20 mil and 9 civilian). I started in fixed wing in the mid 80s but there were NO jobs. If you donít like it go somewhere else. I can say that the good here far outweighs the bad. We are ALL underpaid in this industry. Like working at a fast food joint for minimum wage, the regionals are meant to be a stepping stone to cargo, corporate, or the majors. If any of us were running this show weíd do the exact same thing. We are still recruiting and filling classes so until that well dries up why would management change? Like all publicly traded companies throughout the world they are trying to maximize PROFIT. I took $100K pay CUT to come here and Iím glad I did. It will get better. This is still the best job in the world. Iíd rather do it for $40K than sit behind a keyboard ANY DAY.

The regionals are a steeping stone, but itís not the same stepping stone it was in years past flying 9-19 piston or turbo props. The current environment has provided the current generation of pilots maximum leverage to get paid top dollar (non legacy money). There is a shortage of pilots incoming, there is forward movement in the industry, youíre flying jet aircraft on 4 hour flights with first class. Donít sell yourself short. This isnít the 80ís, early 90ís or mid 2000ís. Now is the time to extract QOL and money from the regionals and set the bar higher for the next downturn. If you look closely, Skywest is making record profits.

2tofly
07-14-2018, 01:43 PM
No argument from me! My main point is YOU ALL have a CHOICE on where you decide to fly. Go where it is best for you, your family, and your career goals. The MAIN reason I came to SkyWest is because (at age 51) I am comfortable staying here for the next 14 years until I reach age 65 if I cannot get on with my chosen Major, LCC. I chose to come here despite the lower pay because of the company's reputation, pilots I know here, and what I stated above. I have a military pension and retired military healthcare so I chose COMPANY over pay but that's me! Do what is BEST for you!

Excargodog
07-14-2018, 03:04 PM
Now that's a realistic and positive attitude to have of the regional industry as a whole. Your CAs are lucky to fly with you.

Increasingly, Skywest captains are lucky to have ANY FOs. Not their fault certainly. Many of them went to Skywest back when it was still the regional to go to. They've paid their dues and now are FINALLY getting the TPIC they will need to eventually be competitive for a job at the majors. Within a year or two, they have every reason to expect that they will finally get a good return on what has been a long and difficult investment.

Except to get those next 1000 hours of left seat time, there has actually got to be someone in the right seat, and to do that recruiting has got to be competitive. That's EXACTLY why the management floated the ability to pay new hire signing bonuses of up to $30K in the TA that was recently turned down overwhelmingly.

And management, despite record profits, are just plain chintzy, not just with hotel rooms but with training pay, overall pay scales, and with everything else. We understand that. They'd like to recruit people by just giving them a big bonus and once they have them trapped by a couple year's seniority, just continue to under pay them like they are already doing for everyone else.


The problem is that this all comes down to either paying people what they are worth or somehow tricking junior people into signing on for far less than they are worth, then stringing them along as long as possible for that proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, which is Skywest management's preferred option.

Right now there is sort of a game of chicken going on between the pilots already at Skywest and management. The only real card that the pilot group has to get industry-matching pay scales is to hold new hire salaries hostage - most of us understand that and don't really blame them. It's the only card they really have and their pay is lagging so badly that they have to play it.

But it's also important for the pilots currently there to be honest with the newbie's too. They too are playing you. Management is entirely willing to sweeten the pot for you guys to get you in the door so they can get you to work for below industry rates later, but your senior pilots are holding you hostage too. And while none of us really blame them for doing that, it's hypocritical as hell for them to also chide you for complaining about wanting things that are industry standard - like single hotel rooms, or 74 hour guarantee during training, or per Diem in training when not in your base, while they are both holding your pay and signing bonus hostage to them getting what they want.

If the senior pilots in the group - whose own careers depend upon keeping a constant inflow of FOs - are going to chide applicants for expecting industry standard conditions, why should the pilot's group expect to get industry standard pay and work rules themselves?

More to the point, if both sides don't see anything wrong with treating new FO applicants with disrespect, why would any one want to apply to Skywest at all?

WesternSkies
07-14-2018, 03:44 PM
Are you Ok? Or did skyw do something to you?

Excargodog
07-14-2018, 04:28 PM
Are you Ok? Or did skyw do something to you?

I'm fine. Is there some part of that posting you disagree with?

SilentLurker
07-15-2018, 04:55 AM
The regionals are a steeping stone, but itís not the same stepping stone it was in years past flying 9-19 piston or turbo props. The current environment has provided the current generation of pilots maximum leverage to get paid top dollar (non legacy money). There is a shortage of pilots incoming, there is forward movement in the industry, youíre flying jet aircraft on 4 hour flights with first class. Donít sell yourself short. This isnít the 80ís, early 90ís or mid 2000ís. Now is the time to extract QOL and money from the regionals and set the bar higher for the next downturn. If you look closely, Skywest is making record profits.


Piggy-back this....

When folks stop thinking of only themselves and realize Skywest record profits are off the backs of regional pilots. The industry (pilots) are watching you guys more closely! Please donít sell yourself short for short term personal gains, at the expense of various regional carriers trying to get the bar higher for ALL OF US in the same PROFESSION.

SilentLurker
07-15-2018, 05:01 AM
If mainline pilots and other regional pilots had let the bar of soap fall post bankruptcy era, weíd all (industry wide) remain bent over trying to pick up that bar of soap! While Big INC comes stepping into the shower and finds a treat!

Donít give him the treat! Stand up! Tighten up ur butt cheeks.


Skywest shareholders are making a killing off your a**es, you perform mainline duties unlike the commuter puddle jumps of the past age! How the company decides to farm you out as a low bidder is your business because you allow them! Set a higher expectation! You earned your position as a regional airline pilot flying damn near the same route structure, hubs, airspace and altitude!

Take pride in yourself and profession and demand the wage and QOL you deserve! Stop picking up the soap for Big INC! You donít owe INC squat! Itís a two way street and relationship. Implement what ever leverage you all need to make it change happen, or stop complaining. The whole regional industry is watching you guys wondering if your going to keep bending over picking up the SOAP for shareholders.

WidgetDriver
07-15-2018, 06:55 AM
Skywest management is the Frank Lorenzo management of today. Union busting management that cares nothing about you.

Plenty of much better regionals to work for with better pay and better work rules.

If you want to come to Delta it helps if you come from an ALPA regional. Same with United and FedEx. Skywest pilots donít get that preferential scoring.

MEDHawkDriver
07-15-2018, 07:59 AM
Great point 2toFly, and I am in the same boat. I retire from the military in another year, will be 50 when I am ready to start, and SkyWest in my number one region of choice due to a domicile location that is shared with just one other regional. My military retirement with 28 years, Tricare for Life, and the ability to finally move home after 28 years makes it a simple choice.

rickair7777
07-15-2018, 11:30 AM
Skywest management is the Frank Lorenzo management of today. Union busting management that cares nothing about you.

Plenty of much better regionals to work for with better pay and better work rules.

If you want to come to Delta it helps if you come from an ALPA regional. Same with United and FedEx. Skywest pilots don’t get that preferential scoring.

It must not be much of a preference, plenty OO people going to all majors, esp. DL and UA. As much as some regional pilots would like them to, majors don't care.

If regional ALPA was truly effective, all ALPA majors would hire only from ALPA regionals.

Excargodog
07-15-2018, 12:16 PM
Great point 2toFly, and I am in the same boat. I retire from the military in another year, will be 50 when I am ready to start, and SkyWest in my number one region of choice due to a domicile location that is shared with just one other regional. My military retirement with 28 years, Tricare for Life, and the ability to finally move home after 28 years makes it a simple choice.

Let's assume that with 28 years you are AT LEAST a CW5. With 28 years, you are going to be pulling in right around $72,000 a year retirement pay before taxes and yeah, Tricare for life has an annual 'catastrophic' cap if $3,000 a year which one ER visit will max you out at, plus you are entitled to free care at any uniformed services medical facility.

So yeah, for those of you who COME IN TO SKYWEST with a pension equal to what a Skywest six-year captain makes (only better, because the military retirement us inflation adjusted) and essentially no worries about medical insurance costs...that us, if you are already set up for retirement and simply want somebody else to fund your recreational jet flying, Skywest's low wages simply aren't that big a deal.

And I am personally delighted that works for both iof you.

But for those who are not in those particular circumstances, that is MOST OF THE PROSPECTIVE NEWBIES, wages that at least meet the industry median woukd sure be nice.

RJDio
07-16-2018, 12:20 AM
Let's assume that with 28 years you are AT LEAST a CW5. With 28 years, you are going to be pulling in right around $72,000 a year retirement pay before taxes and yeah, Tricare for life has an annual 'catastrophic' cap if $3,000 a year which one ER visit will max you out at, plus you are entitled to free care at any uniformed services medical facility.

So yeah, for those of you who COME IN TO SKYWEST with a pension equal to what a Skywest six-year captain makes (only better, because the military retirement us inflation adjusted) and essentially no worries about medical insurance costs...that us, if you are already set up for retirement and simply want somebody else to fund your recreational jet flying, Skywest's low wages simply aren't that big a deal.

And I am personally delighted that works for both iof you.

But for those who are not in those particular circumstances, that is MOST OF THE PROSPECTIVE NEWBIES, wages that at least meet the industry median woukd sure be nice.
So youíre going to use your military retirement to subsidize a subpar compensation package? And advocate others do the same?

bradthepilot
07-16-2018, 01:49 PM
So youíre going to use your military retirement to subsidize a subpar compensation package? And advocate others do the same?

For others who may be in a similar situation, why not? There were four or five in my new hire class who had a similar background/situation. Clearly that's not everyone's scenario, but the CFI-fresh-out-of-college scenario doesn't map to everyone either.

Surely you're not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach for everyone?

ninerdriver
07-16-2018, 03:19 PM
For others who may be in a similar situation, why not? There were four or five in my new hire class who had a similar background/situation. Clearly that's not everyone's scenario, but the CFI-fresh-out-of-college scenario doesn't map to everyone either.

Surely you're not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach for everyone?

Actually, that's how it works in this line of work.

RJDio
07-16-2018, 03:31 PM
For others who may be in a similar situation, why not? There were four or five in my new hire class who had a similar background/situation. Clearly that's not everyone's scenario, but the CFI-fresh-out-of-college scenario doesn't map to everyone either.

Surely you're not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach for everyone?
No Iím not. What Iím pointing out is the (IMO) flawed rationalization of accepting substandard compensation (money, qol, bennies) because of previous wealth, and then justifying the subsidy.

Itís detrimental and counter productive to the industry as a whole to give up the good fight because you may have a pension. Your personal wealth should be irrelevant to compensation negotiations.

Once you go down that rabbit hole, youíll find yourself paying the company to fly their airplane again during the next downturn.

bradthepilot
07-16-2018, 03:55 PM
Actually, that's how it works in this line of work.

Everyone gets paid the same, yes, but individual net worth varied from people paying off student loans to pilots just retiring out of the military with a pension to people who own successful businesses with a significant net worth. Their reasons for joining the airline varied considerably. So no, a one-size-fits-all justfication doesn't actually fit because some of those people would value basing over hourly rates, while others would value hourly rates over upgrade times, and so on.

Simpsons
07-16-2018, 03:59 PM
When I went through training I did the shared suite at the Candlewood and I also had sims in STL which was just your normal 2 queen hotel room which me and my sim partner shared. I didn't mind the Candlewood but St. Louis sucked. I've heard they no longer have sims in STL though.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-16-2018, 06:55 PM
For others who may be in a similar situation, why not? There were four or five in my new hire class who had a similar background/situation. Clearly that's not everyone's scenario, but the CFI-fresh-out-of-college scenario doesn't map to everyone either.

Surely you're not advocating a one-size-fits-all approach for everyone?

You can say the same thing for rich kids where mommy and daddy helps them pay rent or feeds them while they go fly shiny jets and tell their friends theyíre a pilot. The point is, no matter your situation take a look at the industry and realize going to SkyWest right now is aiding the bottom rung of the industry. It may work for you, but why accept that knowing there are far better offers out there. It is similar to the guy that has 25k in pocket so he spends 24k on a sh*tcar with nice wheels and window tint because he justifies it by having the money.

Green Needles
07-17-2018, 07:09 AM
You would think at 51 with a (hopefully) successful military career, one would have accumulated enough wisdom to not justify subpar wages. Ok, we get it, you made the right decision for you. Congratulations on your optimistic attitude and narrow-minded view of the world. This is one of the best markets in the history of aviation for pilots. Take a look at the rest of the regional industry, then take a look at the industry as a whole. There's no excuse for Skywest pilot pay to be as low as it is, just corporate greed. That's everywhere, and you are saying "Thank you sir, may I have another!" The truly despicable part is you are trying to sell others on that. I hope you are a management troll, because I'd like to hope pilots aren't dumb enough to sell other pilots on subpar pay and benefits.

word302
07-17-2018, 10:00 AM
You would think at 51 with a (hopefully) successful military career, one would have accumulated enough wisdom to not justify subpar wages. Ok, we get it, you made the right decision for you. Congratulations on your optimistic attitude and narrow-minded view of the world. This is one of the best markets in the history of aviation for pilots. Take a look at the rest of the regional industry, then take a look at the industry as a whole. There's no excuse for Skywest pilot pay to be as low as it is, just corporate greed. That's everywhere, and you are saying "Thank you sir, may I have another!" The truly despicable part is you are trying to sell others on that. I hope you are a management troll, because I'd like to hope pilots aren't dumb enough to sell other pilots on subpar pay and benefits.

Lol. How many of you would live in base for a few bucks less? We have some issues, but give the guy a break.

Blueskies21
07-17-2018, 10:04 AM
I mean, shared hotel rooms ARE industry standard... if you're using the standard from like 1995. But if a west coast base means that much to you, I guess it's your choice.

As for the pay rates, it's a pretty weak argument to say... I don't need the money, whatever. If you don't need the money then maybe you should just stay home and enjoy your retirement.

Green Needles
07-17-2018, 11:06 AM
I mean, shared hotel rooms ARE industry standard... if you're using the standard from like 1995. But if a west coast base means that much to you, I guess it's your choice.

As for the pay rates, it's a pretty weak argument to say... I don't need the money, whatever. If you don't need the money then maybe you should just stay home and enjoy your retirement.

Truth! Skywest is the largest regional pilot group. What the do for their pilot contract affects every other regional. Can you imagine what an Endeavor or better contract at Skywest would do for the all the other regionals?

2tofly
07-19-2018, 05:59 AM
I hope I never have to fly with you because itís going to be a very sterile flight deck. Get out of aviation now.

You would think at 51 with a (hopefully) successful military career, one would have accumulated enough wisdom to not justify subpar wages. Ok, we get it, you made the right decision for you. Congratulations on your optimistic attitude and narrow-minded view of the world. This is one of the best markets in the history of aviation for pilots. Take a look at the rest of the regional industry, then take a look at the industry as a whole. There's no excuse for Skywest pilot pay to be as low as it is, just corporate greed. That's everywhere, and you are saying "Thank you sir, may I have another!" The truly despicable part is you are trying to sell others on that. I hope you are a management troll, because I'd like to hope pilots aren't dumb enough to sell other pilots on subpar pay and benefits.

Melit
07-19-2018, 06:11 AM
Truth! Skywest is the largest regional pilot group. What the do for their pilot contract affects every other regional. Can you imagine what an Endeavor or better contract at Skywest would do for the all the other regionals?
Most likely BK a couple of them..

Green Needles
07-19-2018, 07:19 AM
I hope I never have to fly with you because itís going to be a very sterile flight deck. Get out of aviation now.

Awww, that's cute, you're fired up now. Channel a bit of that energy into bettering our profession rather than justifying subpar pay.

Melit
07-19-2018, 07:25 AM
Awww, that's cute, you're fired up now. Channel a bit of that energy into bettering our profession rather than justifying subpar pay.

And EXACTLY what are you actively doing to better the profession?

Green Needles
07-19-2018, 07:49 AM
And EXACTLY what are you actively doing to better the profession?

I went to the highest paid regional to start my 121 career. I actively lobby our union reps to continue raising the bar on regional pay. I refused to work for the airlines when starting pay was in the low $20,000s.

Don't forget, you are selling your labor to the company. Why sell yourself cheaply?

2tofly doesn't have to worry about a "very sterile" flight deck with me. We'll never fly together, because I won't subject myself to Skywest. I'm worth more than that.

amcnd
07-19-2018, 07:56 AM
I went to the highest paid regional to start my 121 career. I actively lobby our union reps to continue raising the bar on regional pay. I refused to work for the airlines when starting pay was in the low $20,000s.

Don't forget, you are selling your labor to the company. Why sell yourself cheaply?

2tofly doesn't have to worry about a "very sterile" flight deck with me. We'll never fly together, because I won't subject myself to Skywest. I'm worth more than that.

Exactly. No one is making you go to SkyWest. It worked for me. Watched my kids grow up (witch I didnít get to see the 4 years i was at Envoy) Was a good ride, Made friends, now time to leave.

Iíve been a advocate of go to a regional where you have family, close to home, QOL for you... for me that was OO or QX...

Simpsons
07-19-2018, 08:15 AM
I went to the highest paid regional to start my 121 career. I actively lobby our union reps to continue raising the bar on regional pay. I refused to work for the airlines when starting pay was in the low $20,000s.

Don't forget, you are selling your labor to the company. Why sell yourself cheaply?

2tofly doesn't have to worry about a "very sterile" flight deck with me. We'll never fly together, because I won't subject myself to Skywest. I'm worth more than that.
The highest paid regional changes a lot. What about the pilots that were at Comair?


I wanted a Chicago base because I live there. SkyWest paid $10 an hour more than Envoy when I started. Republic was still emerging from bankruptcy and was far from a sure thing. I never considered TSA or GoJet. I'm not going to bounce around regionals chasing bonuses. I've done what I can do to try and get better QOL by voting no for every contract since I've been here and if there's an ALPA drive I'll be on board with it.


Could things be better at SkyWest? Absolutely and with how cyclical the regional industry is I'm sure in time it will.

Green Needles
07-19-2018, 08:21 AM
Like I said, he's welcome to go where he wants, as am I. What disgusts me is trying to make excuses for Skywest's below industry standard compensation. He's welcome to say "I'm willing to sell my labor for far below market value because of other mitigating factors." Coming on here bragging about how Skywest is a good company (it's not for the pilots) and bragging about how he took a $100,000 pay cut to fly for the almighty Skywest shows how strong the Koolaid is. Do us all a favor and stand up for what you're worth. Then, hopefully the regionals can all die along with their lousy contracts and work rules.

Green Needles
07-19-2018, 08:50 AM
I'll also add that it's the SJS attitude like this guy has that has allowed the regionals to treat pilots so poorly. You don't see doctors saying "Oh Emm Geee! Look at this really cool OR! I'll happily operate on patients for nothing because it's soooo cool!" Truck drivers don't salivate saying "Wow, that Peterbilt is so cool! Since (my my naively formed opinion tells me) the company that owns it is so cool, I'll accept far below industry standard compensation just because the company is so gracious to allow me to work for them driving such a cool truck!"

Pilots are idiots for buying into the mindset that because we get to fly airplanes, we should grovel at the feet of our overlords. No other profession sells themselves short like we do. So yes, I take it personally when people further that attitude. Stop making excuses for the company and stop undercutting the profession.

Fr8Thrust
07-19-2018, 08:50 AM
Get out of aviation now.

Reasons like this are why other pilot groups are advancing unlike OO.

Do us all a favor and stand up for what you're worth. Then, hopefully the regionals can all die along with their lousy contracts and work rules.
👌

gojo
07-19-2018, 08:50 AM
The highest paid regional changes a lot. What about the pilots that were at Comair?


I wanted a Chicago base because I live there. SkyWest paid $10 an hour more than Envoy when I started. Republic was still emerging from bankruptcy and was far from a sure thing. I never considered TSA or GoJet. I'm not going to bounce around regionals chasing bonuses. I've done what I can do to try and get better QOL by voting no for every contract since I've been here and if there's an ALPA drive I'll be on board with it.


Could things be better at SkyWest? Absolutely and with how cyclical the regional industry is I'm sure in time it will.

Oh ffs, why even get out of bed in the morning if youíre that afraid of something bad happening? Sure Comair was the highest paid regional for a while. But itís demise was much more complicated than that. Additionally, this career looked a whole lot differently back then. This is a great time to be an entry level pilot. If a base works for you that allows you to stay home with family and not commute, well thatís worth something. And Iím not sure I could even put a price on that because each individual would value it differently

Melit
07-19-2018, 08:58 AM
I'll also add that it's the SJS attitude like this guy has that has allowed the regionals to treat pilots so poorly. You don't see doctors saying "Oh Emm Geee! Look at this really cool OR! I'll happily operate on patients for nothing because it's soooo cool!" Truck drivers don't salivate saying "Wow, that Peterbilt is so cool! Since (my my naively formed opinion tells me) the company that owns it is so cool, I'll accept far below industry standard compensation just because the company is so gracious to allow me to work for them driving such a cool truck!"

Pilots are idiots for buying into the mindset that because we get to fly airplanes, we should grovel at the feet of our overlords. No other profession sells themselves short like we do. So yes, I take it personally when people further that attitude. Stop making excuses for the company and stop undercutting the profession.
What other profession takes selfies while at work and posts it all over facebook? Look at me in my uniform, I'm in a cockpit! LOL

Simpsons
07-19-2018, 09:00 AM
Oh ffs, why even get out of bed in the morning if youíre that afraid of something bad happening? Sure Comair was the highest paid regional for a while. But itís demise was much more complicated than that. Additionally, this career looked a whole lot differently back then. This is a great time to be an entry level pilot. If a base works for you that allows you to stay home with family and not commute, well thatís worth something. And Iím not sure I could even put a price on that because each individual would value it differently
My example of Comair wasn’t meant to say I was afraid that SkyWest would go out of business if we got higher pay, it was only meant to show that one single regional doesn’t always stay the highest pay forever. The same can even be said for mainline

Green Needles
07-19-2018, 09:08 AM
My example of Comair wasnít meant to say I was afraid that SkyWest would go out of business if we got higher pay, it was only meant to show that one single regional doesnít always stay the highest pay forever. The same can even be said for mainline

Absolutely correct. Take a look at the substantial gains made by nearly every other pilot group. Then take a look at Skywest. I rest my case.

Simpsons
07-19-2018, 09:19 AM
Absolutely correct. Take a look at the substantial gains made by nearly every other pilot group. Then take a look at Skywest. I rest my case.
Why do you think those other companies did it? Because they’re nice and good people? They did it because they had to in order to keep pilots coming through the door. SkyWest for whatever reason is still getting people in the door. It willl happen with time, people will eventually stop coming and SkyWest will have to improve pay and QOL. In fact, I think you’re helping us all out by trying to dissuade pilots from coming here. I know I haven’t really recommended anyone come here in the past year or so.

WesternSkies
07-19-2018, 09:21 AM
The 9e pilots here are scared their neck is stuck too far ahead of the industry unless OO matches. These posts are openly fear driven in their chastiment and falsehoods.

Even APLA doesnít publish OO in the low end of regional compensation.

Melit
07-19-2018, 09:36 AM
I went to the highest paid regional to start my 121 career. I actively lobby our union reps to continue raising the bar on regional pay. I refused to work for the airlines when starting pay was in the low $20,000s.

Don't forget, you are selling your labor to the company. Why sell yourself cheaply?

2tofly doesn't have to worry about a "very sterile" flight deck with me. We'll never fly together, because I won't subject myself to Skywest. I'm worth more than that.

How many TA have you voted NO!

Check Complete
07-19-2018, 10:26 AM
Why do you think those other companies did it? Because theyíre nice and good people? They did it because they had to in order to keep pilots coming through the door. SkyWest for whatever reason is still getting people in the door. It willl happen with time, people will eventually stop coming and SkyWest will have to improve pay and QOL. In fact, I think youíre helping us all out by trying to dissuade pilots from coming here. I know I havenít really recommended anyone come here in the past year or so.

SkyWest is using their forgone reputation as the place to be. Today we take everyone, there is no person that will not be in the next class if they have the minimums. So forget the premise that SkyWest has this higher caliber for what newhire gets on board. From what I have been told, we took on someone that couldn't make at Mesa. People are getting suspended and terminated for stuff that would normally be fixed. I think management is getting nervous and mean about the possible union drive. Now is not the time to be here.

gojo
07-19-2018, 10:33 AM
The 9e pilots here are scared their neck is stuck too far ahead of the industry unless OO matches. These posts are openly fear driven in their chastiment and falsehoods.

Even APLA doesnít publish OO in the low end of regional compensation.

WHAT??? Youíre posts are so full of bs. Funny you would spin it like that. Well I suppose thereís a slim chance that you have a psychology degree and youíve personally talked with all us scared posters?

Melit
07-19-2018, 12:09 PM
SkyWest is using their forgone reputation as the place to be. Today we take everyone, there is no person that will not be in the next class if they have the minimums. So forget the premise that SkyWest has this higher caliber for what newhire gets on board. From what I have been told, we took on someone that couldn't make at Mesa. People are getting suspended and terminated for stuff that would normally be fixed. I think management is getting nervous and mean about the possible union drive. Now is not the time to be here.

WOW. You kill me. If management is getting nervous over a union drive, do you think they would be suspending and terminating people left and right??

Arliss
07-19-2018, 02:17 PM
What other profession takes selfies while at work and posts it all over facebook? Look at me in my uniform, I'm in a cockpit! LOL

I have seen plenty of friends and other take selfies of themselves at work or work related situations. Very common.

rickair7777
07-19-2018, 02:43 PM
WOW. You kill me. If management is getting nervous over a union drive, do you think they would be suspending and terminating people left and right??

At some point the have to terminate people....

They are hiring virtually anybody, so some of those will have training problems, and others will have behavior problems once on line. I admittedly flew with some folks who didn't belong there.

Also their scheduling practices are creating reliability problems, so they probably believe that for every pilot they fire for poor reliability (ie working less than 98 hours/month), they can intimidate several hundred other pilots to not call out. Do they keep the airline running today or worry about a union years down the road?

Excargodog
07-19-2018, 03:33 PM
At some point the have to terminate people....

They are hiring virtually anybody, so some of those will have training problems, and others will have behavior problems once on line.


Not a situation unique to Skywest. No regional today is getting the quantity of really good applicants they once did. You are seeing that across the board. But when you combine that with industry lagging pay, you tend to make the difficult situation even worse.

So of course you are going to have to increase eliminations. Every regional out there is one Colgan 3407 incident away from becoming extinct:

https://youtu.be/33NUAy3eomg

Flying with inadequate people is far more dangerous to the continued survival of a regional than just cancelling flights.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-19-2018, 04:58 PM
SkyWest let me go last year because of a few sick calls and one missed commute while on probation. Not saying I didnít deserve some sort of punishment but them telling me bye bye seemed rather stupid. I held many jobs previous to that, never been close to getting fired. I had zero issues getting through training and always made my commute prior to the day of my first offense. Not once did I meet any of my base chiefs for anything prior to being called into the office and told to hand over my badge and surface.

Point is I donít think everyone who gets let go deserves to be let go so donít paint with too broad of brush, but I could be biased.

Air Stang 7
07-19-2018, 06:02 PM
Who needs management to abuse pilots when you have enablers like the k00l-aid drinkers? You guys should be demanding regional industry leading!!

rickair7777
07-19-2018, 06:57 PM
SkyWest let me go last year because of a few sick calls and one missed commute while on probation. Not saying I didnít deserve some sort of punishment but them telling me bye bye seemed rather stupid. I held many jobs previous to that, never been close to getting fired. I had zero issues getting through training and always made my commute prior to the day of my first offense. Not once did I meet any of my base chiefs for anything prior to being called into the office and told to hand over my badge and surface.

Point is I donít think everyone who gets let go deserves to be let go so donít paint with too broad of brush, but I could be biased.

Not sure what a "few" means, but 2-3 is way different than 5-6, especially in a period than one year.

Normally progressive discipline is the rule (ie discussions, verbal warnings, written warnings, etc) but airlines in general are notorious for low tolerance on probation.

Entirely possible they just decided to make some examples and you were at the wrong time and place. In the past, especially recently as QOL tanked, many folks were calling in a LOT, like monthly.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-19-2018, 07:09 PM
Not sure what a "few" means, but 2-3 is way different than 5-6, especially in a period than one year.

Normally progressive discipline is the rule (ie discussions, verbal warnings, written warnings, etc) but airlines in general are notorious for low tolerance on probation.

Entirely possible they just decided to make some examples and you were at the wrong time and place. In the past, especially recently as QOL tanked, many folks were calling in a LOT, like monthly.

Iíll elaborate for you then. 3 sick calls to be exact, 3 calls in 8 months. TG did just want heads to roll, such a stand up character that guy is, an excellent leader and manager as well.... ha

Anyway enough my sob story itís been shared before. Itís just another example of how the biggest best company really doesnít care about the guys/gals in the front of their planes. You can defend the company all you want, but if they thought more of you they would offer you way better deals than the last two and not require new hires to share rooms, excuse me share ďsuitesĒ..

Broncofan
07-20-2018, 04:29 AM
I refused to work for the airlines when starting pay was in the low $20.

Well that was dumb, while you were protesting, we were building time and at majors now.

Air Stang 7
07-20-2018, 05:03 AM
Well that was dumb, while you were protesting, we were building time and at majors now.
Yeah! I can't believe someone would be so foolish as to find something that paid more money and allowed them to build wealth instead of subsidizing their need to fly shiny jets. How foolish of them since we know everybody got to a major that was hired in those days.

rickair7777
07-20-2018, 02:38 PM
I’ll elaborate for you then. 3 sick calls to be exact, 3 calls in 8 months. TG did just want heads to roll, such a stand up character that guy is, an excellent leader and manager as well.... ha

Anyway enough my sob story it’s been shared before. It’s just another example of how the biggest best company really doesn’t care about the guys/gals in the front of their planes. You can defend the company all you want, but if they thought more of you they would offer you way better deals than the last two and not require new hires to share rooms, excuse me share “suites”..

I'm not defending anything, just saying there is a line to not cross in this industry. The line moves sometimes, and being on probation doesn't help.

When I started in the industry, I would have been very scared to call in sick more than maybe twice on probation. Things have changed for the better, but it does sound like you pushed the grey area just a bit, and unfortunately they needed to make an example that month.

But I don't give a crap about new hire hotel arrangements, you can get your own room or get a job somewhere else if you like.

My room mate was cool, otherwise I would have got my own room in a heartbeat. I played the game on probation, and am long gone from SKW. I would never have gotten my current job if I got fired from a regional for reliability.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-20-2018, 03:28 PM
I'm not defending anything, just saying there is a line to not cross in this industry. The line moves sometimes, and being on probation doesn't help.

When I started in the industry, I would have been very scared to call in sick more than maybe twice on probation. Things have changed for the better, but it does sound like you pushed the grey area just a bit, and unfortunately they needed to make an example that month.

But I don't give a crap about new hire hotel arrangements, you can get your own room or get a job somewhere else if you like.

My room mate was cool, otherwise I would have got my own room in a heartbeat. I played the game on probation, and am long gone from SKW. I would never have gotten my current job if I got fired from a regional for reliability.

Whatever you say Rickair, good for you for moving on. Best of luck in your career, Sir

Excargodog
07-20-2018, 03:52 PM
When I started in the industry, I would have been very scared to call in sick more than maybe twice on probation. Things have changed for the better, but it does sound like you pushed the grey area just a bit, and unfortunately they needed to make an example that month.






You know, that's just plain scary. I mean, I know that as a group regional pilots are young and healthy, but damn.., if any of you have kids in preschool or kindergarten, they bring home all sorts of crud. And how hard is it to break an ankle - just jogging on uneven ground even.


I think it is perfectly acceptable for the airlines to do what the military did, have you bring a clearance form (1042 in the USAF) anytime you see the flight doc with his/her opinion of whether you ought to be flying or not, but so damn much of getting sick is absolutely not within the span of control of the person getting sick that a policy like you described seems like simply punishing someone (and throwing away the effort made to train them) for nothing more than statistically bad luck.



You might as well have a hundred pilots flip a coin five times and fire everyone that gets heads all five times. That will give you about three percent sacrificial goats.

rickair7777
07-20-2018, 04:27 PM
You know, that's just plain scary. I mean, I know that as a group regional pilots are young and healthy, but damn.., if any of you have kids in preschool or kindergarten, they bring home all sorts of crud. And how hard is it to break an ankle - just jogging on uneven ground even.


I think it is perfectly acceptable for the airlines to do what the military did, have you bring a clearance form (1042 in the USAF) anytime you see the flight doc with his/her opinion of whether you ought to be flying or not, but so damn much of getting sick is absolutely not within the span of control of the person getting sick that a policy like you described seems like simply punishing someone (and throwing away the effort made to train them) for nothing more than statistically bad luck.



You might as well have a hundred pilots flip a coin five times and fire everyone that gets heads all five times. That will give you about three percent sacrificial goats.

That was a long time ago. It was understood that not everybody would finish probation, and there was some luck involved. The idea was to try to make some of your own luck. Things are a lot kinder and gentler today.

FedUpPayMe
07-20-2018, 04:45 PM
That was a long time ago. It was understood that not everybody would finish probation, and there was some luck involved. The idea was to try to make some of your own luck. Things are a lot kinder and gentler today.

Glad that things have changed for the better.

That is a glaring safety issue when a pilot fears to call out sick or fatigued because the company could fire them while they are on probation. It took a series of noteworthy accidents and incidents like Shuttle America Flight 6448 for the FAA to press the airlines to take pilots seriously who call out sick or fatigued.