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View Full Version : DHL 777 Order


KyberCrystal
07-16-2018, 09:55 AM
DHL announced this morning they ordered a bunch of 777s from Boeing. As far as I know, DHL is a network of airlines, some they own, some they contract with. So my question is what certificate are these 777s going to end up on.

Would anyone like to speculate?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/16/boeing-kicks-farnborough-airshow-36bn-dhl-777-deal/


RandomPerson
07-16-2018, 10:45 AM
Probably AeroLogic since DHL is German owned and Aerologic is their German 777 operator.

It could be Southern too since they're probably the cheapest 777 operator with the lowest paid 777 pilots on planet earth. Maybe that's why Southern Pilots' compensation was recently "brought up" to the Atlas contract. They're still probably the lowest paid 777 pilots on planet earth though, no different than Atlas for the 76/74. It just depends on whether DHL values reliability or cost more.

They could have one of their Asian carriers like Air Hong Kong operate them too I guess, but that involve them having to start a 777 program.

It feels like I'm on the regional forum arguing over who's gonna get the next big NINE HONDO order.

Formerbuspilot
07-16-2018, 11:55 AM
It just depends on whether DHL values reliability or cost more.
.

$$ Cost $$


RyeMex
07-16-2018, 04:02 PM
Maybe that's why Southern Pilots' compensation was recently "brought up" to the Atlas contract.

This is a rumor that needs to be squashed. I was told from a new hire in todayís new class at Atlas that management had offered him a 777 class date and told him that Southern now had the Atlas contract.

This is a complete and utter boldfaced lie. There has not even been an AIP reached. Southern is still on the Southern contract. There is no guarantee that the parity that the company claims to have offered is even real parity. It is still being scrutinized by the lawyers. Even if this offer does turn out to be what management says it is (which is doubtful from what Iíve heard of it so far), it still has to go through 4 votes before it would become a real deal.

RandomPerson
07-16-2018, 04:38 PM
This is a rumor that needs to be squashed. I was told from a new hire in todayís new class at Atlas that management had offered him a 777 class date and told him that Southern now had the Atlas contract.

This is a complete and utter boldfaced lie. There has not even been an AIP reached. Southern is still on the Southern contract. There is no guarantee that the parity that the company claims to have offered is even real parity. It is still being scrutinized by the lawyers. Even if this offer does turn out to be what management says it is (which is doubtful from what Iíve heard of it so far), it still has to go through 4 votes before it would become a real deal.


"We can report that we believe we have reached an agreement in principal with the company on an LOA that would bring our counterparts at Southern to parity with Atlas Air pilots".

Tumbl3weed
07-16-2018, 05:04 PM
It just depends on whether DHL values reliability or cost more.[/QUOTE]

I think we all know the answer to that
DHL - Day and a Half Late

RyeMex
07-16-2018, 05:25 PM
"We can report that we believe we have reached an agreement in principal with the company on an LOA that would bring our counterparts at Southern to parity with Atlas Air pilots".

"We believe that we have" and "We have" are two different statements.
Also, I have been told that with every week that goes by, our lawyers are finding more "easter eggs" in the company's proposal that makes it look less and less like a true offer of parity.

ROBsINtheHOOD
07-17-2018, 04:25 AM
With this purchase , DHL is amending it`s business plan away from wet leased , expensive 747F type operations to a more owned and in house operation. Operators like Kalitta , Polar and Southern have just seen their negotiating leverage reduce drastically.

Diesel8
07-17-2018, 04:40 AM
"We can report that we believe we have reached an agreement in principal with the company on an LOA that would bring our counterparts at Southern to parity with Atlas Air pilots".

Not Even Close.

1. The LOA has not even been released to the crews for their review.

2. The dog & pony sales show has not even started.

3. There is probably more negative aspects to the parity agreement then there would be positive - smoke and mirrors

4. It has to be voted on

5. Most SAI crewmembers with half a brain know that this parity offer is a veiled screw job, and is probably not even anywhere near "parity"

6. After years of not giving parity to SAI pilots, what is the sudden impetus to do so now unless it is of some large benefit to Atlas management, and no we are not talking about satiated pilots.

7. Atlas management has NEVER done anything that would benefit their employees unless it was indulging in delighting masochists.

Atlas keeps bantering about the date 2 September. Why is that? Is it something that is required by some large company stakeholder? What gives?

No Land 3
07-17-2018, 05:27 AM
With this purchase , DHL is amending it`s business plan away from wet leased , expensive 747F type operations to a more owned and in house operation. Operators like Kalitta , Polar and Southern have just seen their negotiating leverage reduce drastically.
I'm pretty sure we could take all of our DHL airplanes and use them with other customers immediately at K4. How a brand new 777 with an expensive lease is cheaper to operate than a 747 that's already been paid off beats me...

maxjet
07-17-2018, 06:12 AM
I guess I am reading the article incorrectly? I read that these are replacement aircraft? Replacing older, higher emission aircraft? Seems like no news to me.

No Land 3
07-17-2018, 06:14 AM
I guess I am reading the article incorrectly? I read that these are replacement aircraft? Replacing older, higher emission aircraft? Seems like no news to me.

Probably replacing some of their A300's

DC8DRIVER
07-17-2018, 06:17 AM
With this purchase , DHL is amending it`s business plan away from wet leased , expensive 747F type operations to a more owned and in house operation. Operators like Kalitta , Polar and Southern have just seen their negotiating leverage reduce drastically.

Who would be DHL's "in-house" 777 operator in the U. S. that would be taking business away from Kalitta , Polar and Southern?

Lockheed
07-17-2018, 06:39 AM
I guess I am reading the article incorrectly? I read that these are replacement aircraft? Replacing older, higher emission aircraft? Seems like no news to me.

to me seems like replacement for 747-400's

Industry Strnd
07-17-2018, 07:52 AM
One thing is for sure. They won't be going to ATI, they only have scope that EXPIRES for narrow bodies that are not even built yet. Lol #dumbest contract ever #ALPAtools

HercDriver130
07-17-2018, 03:16 PM
One thing is for sure. They won't be going to ATI, they only have scope that EXPIRES for narrow bodies that are not even built yet. Lol #dumbest contract ever #ALPAtools

and you can bet it being DHL... they will spread it around...they never put all their eggs in one basket....

gumpscheck
07-17-2018, 03:33 PM
and you can bet it being DHL... they will spread it around...they never put all their eggs in one basket....

I agree 100%.

ROBsINtheHOOD
07-18-2018, 02:17 AM
I'm pretty sure we could take all of our DHL airplanes and use them with other customers immediately at K4. How a brand new 777 with an expensive lease is cheaper to operate than a 747 that's already been paid off beats me...

That`s the point - they are purchasing ( NOT leasing ) these 777`s - and I don`t think DHL cares whether or not Kalitta has paid off these 747`s or not , the monthly lease payments for a fully wet leased ACMI 747F must be ridiculous. DHL has been addicted to wet leases for a very long time , it`s finally realised that expensive wet leases are not in it`s best economic interest. Perhaps expect a few " damp leases " , at the most. Thus continues the demise of the veritable 4 holer.

nitefr8dog
07-18-2018, 02:45 AM
That`s the point - they are purchasing ( NOT leasing ) these 777`s - and I don`t think DHL cares whether or not Kalitta has paid off these 747`s or not , the monthly lease payments for a fully wet leased ACMI 747F must be ridiculous. DHL has been addicted to wet leases for a very long time , it`s finally realised that expensive wet leases are not in it`s best economic interest. Perhaps expect a few " damp leases " , at the most. Thus continues the demise of the veritable 4 holer.
DHL is not new to buying aircraft....they bought and own quite a few new 767s a few yrs back plus 4 ABX 767s.....

BoomerSooner
07-18-2018, 06:18 AM
And all of the ACMI children living within the DHL orphanage ran down to the square with their gruel pales to see the shiny new 777's.

Atrasaty
07-18-2018, 06:55 AM
And all of the ACMI children living within the DHL orphanage ran down to the square with their gruel pales to see the shiny new 777's.

That's funny..."Please Sir...can I have some more?"

My guess is that thes jets will go under CMI contracts to whomevr or all go to Aerologic, the German JV DHL have with Lufthansa, or a combination there of. I don't see a one for one replacement of the 747 coming. I'm also going to guess that 5Why want to bid for a portion hence the attempt to stabilize the ship at Southern and the rush to make a press release to the market about a deal the lawyers ain't read yet.

CA Deplorable
07-18-2018, 04:52 PM
DHL is not new to buying aircraft....they bought and own quite a few new 767s a few yrs back plus 4 ABX 767s.....

Plus the 737-400s

RandomPerson
07-19-2018, 07:44 PM
LOL at the people on this thread jumping on for saying there was an LOA for southern. It'll pass. Southern is starved out. They'll take anything. Atlas is not much better off.

atpcliff
07-21-2018, 10:55 PM
$$ Cost $$

Bad reliability equals more cost...

atpcliff
07-21-2018, 11:00 PM
to me seems like replacement for 747-400's

You could replace SOME 747s with 777s, but there are many situations where a 747 is better than, or the only option, compared to the 777. I taled to an airfreight mgr from HKG. He said the best option for a long haul operator who wanted large aircraft would be a mix of 777 and 747-8s.

atpcliff
07-21-2018, 11:01 PM
With this purchase , DHL is amending it`s business plan away from wet leased , expensive 747F type operations to a more owned and in house operation. Operators like Kalitta , Polar and Southern have just seen their negotiating leverage reduce drastically.

DHL owns 49% of Polar, so half of Polar profits go to DHL.

Lockheed
07-22-2018, 04:49 AM
You could replace SOME 747s with 777s, but there are many situations where a 747 is better than, or the only option, compared to the 777. I taled to an airfreight mgr from HKG. He said the best option for a long haul operator who wanted large aircraft would be a mix of 777 and 747-8s.

if you read the quotes from dhl they talk about using the 777's to replace older less fuel efficient less carbon producing aircraft


to me they are describing 400's-thats just the way I read it

iPilot
07-22-2018, 05:52 AM
if you read the quotes from dhl they talk about using the 777's to replace older less fuel efficient less carbon producing aircraft


to me they are describing 400's-thats just the way I read it

Only in certain situations. There's plenty of room for both aircraft in the cargo world. The 777 carries measurably less cargo than even the 400 let alone the -8. However on routes where you can't quite fill a -400 its for sure a lot more efficient. It would be difficult to have any twin engine freighter compete against a four engine one simply because of the engine-out performance penalty. If you want to haul a LOT of goods a 747 is the only way to go. That's not to say there isn't situations where a smaller gauge aircraft wouldn't be better.

maxjet
07-22-2018, 08:03 AM
DHL owns 49% of Polar, so half of Polar profits go to DHL.
Cliff, he doesnít seem to know very much about the freight business, probably why nobody responded to his remarks.

DC8DRIVER
07-22-2018, 06:45 PM
Cliff, he doesnít seem to know very much about the freight business, probably why nobody responded to his remarks.

Wrong. Cliff is correct.

Atrasaty
07-22-2018, 07:24 PM
Wrong. Cliff is correct.

Wrong...you are wrong. Re-read the post by Max. He is not contradicting Cliff.

maxjet
07-23-2018, 03:27 AM
Wrong. Cliff is correct.
That is my point. Cliff is right and the previous poster is unaware of that dynamic. You are just always looking to pick a fight

BoomerSooner
07-23-2018, 03:10 PM
http://i68.tinypic.com/swekx1.jpg[/IMG]

DC8DRIVER
07-23-2018, 04:04 PM
That is my point. Cliff is right and the previous poster is unaware of that dynamic. You are just always looking to pick a fight

Not trying to pick a fight at all.

My mistake was misreading your post.

When you said,
"Cliff, he doesnít seem to know very much about the freight business, probably why nobody responded to his remarks",
I misread it to say
"Cliff; he doesnít seem to know very much about the freight business, probably why nobody responded to his remarks".

Seems that we're all in agreement about both Cliff and my misread ...

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