Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Republic orders 100 E175s


KCaviator
07-17-2018, 06:44 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/1019213848119824384

Options for 100 more (200 total).


FlyyGuyy
07-17-2018, 07:06 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/AvGeekJames/status/1019213848119824384

Options for 100 more (200 total).

Is this growth? Or replacement of older airframes?

deadstick35
07-17-2018, 07:09 AM
Trainers for the fight school? :)

So, is the MCI base closing next quarter? (Same rumor for the last 12 quarters)


cf105
07-17-2018, 07:56 AM
mix of growth and possibly mix or replacement, maybe. No one outside of management has any idea, nothing has filtered, pilot group didn't even know this was happening.

mto7464
07-17-2018, 08:30 AM
Trainers for the fight school? :)

So, is the MCI base closing next quarter? (Same rumor for the last 12 quarters)

God I hope not.

ChrisPilot1
07-17-2018, 08:39 AM
Replacing E170s that are on average 14-15 years old ? In the airline world those frames still have years of useful life left on them. Why would they need to replace them.

zondaracer
07-17-2018, 09:10 AM
Replacing E170s that are on average 14-15 years old ? In the airline world those frames still have years of useful life left on them. Why would they need to replace them.

Maybe high cycles from doing regional flights.

ChrisPilot1
07-17-2018, 09:20 AM
LGA to IAH, IAH to YUL, MSP-MIA..... those are pretty regional routes....

Meanwhile airwisconsins 20 + year old 200s are flying 30 minute legs to random outstations. These planes have the exact same engines as the 20+ year old 700/900s skywest and every other regional is operating .

Captain Slow
07-17-2018, 09:28 AM
Because they're worth money. Sell them for a fair amount of cash and replace with new hulls, which have all the necessary processing power for future Epic updates unlike all of our 170 fleet. Lots of buyers in other countries for our lightly used stuff that don't are about the updates or other long term support that we might want.

WesternSkies
07-17-2018, 09:41 AM
Guys gunna get printers this time?

Captain Slow
07-17-2018, 09:48 AM
I doubt it. As we make the final push toward a paperless cockpit why would they add more paper?

fortyeight
07-17-2018, 10:09 AM
Guys gunna get printers this time?

Printers are pointless in modern aircraft. We don’t even have paper releases anymore (mostly).

814Pilot
07-17-2018, 10:23 AM
I find it interesting that 100 have options for the E2? Could we be seeing it after all? 🤔

Melit
07-17-2018, 10:35 AM
mix of growth and possibly mix or replacement, maybe. No one outside of management has any idea, nothing has filtered, pilot group didn't even know this was happening.

LOL!!! I didn't know they had to run it by you>>>:rolleyes:

VoiceOfReason
07-17-2018, 11:58 AM
I find it interesting that 100 have options for the E2? Could we be seeing it after all? 🤔

Either way, congrats on the new metal. Can't wait to commute with you guys. Blue skies!

always surfing
07-17-2018, 02:02 PM
Guys gunna get printers this time?

Nope, but we’ll still have the same ********y iPad mounts and no power port for the iPads.

WesternSkies
07-17-2018, 02:46 PM
Who is financing this deal if the 3-bigs own parts of RAH?

DarkSideMoon
07-17-2018, 03:51 PM
Nope, but we’ll still have the same ********y iPad mounts and no power port for the iPads.

Do they not give you guys an external battery?

knewyork
07-17-2018, 03:52 PM
Do they not give you guys an external battery?

Yes they do

EFBprobs
07-17-2018, 08:01 PM
If it doesn't print, does your atis and pdc just stay on a screen somewhere?

fortyeight
07-17-2018, 08:41 PM
If it doesn't print, does your atis and pdc just stay on a screen somewhere?

Yea the MCDU

DarkSideMoon
07-17-2018, 08:46 PM
Yes they do

It seems like an expensive modification to the airplane to get a power port added is kinda redundant then....

knewyork
07-18-2018, 02:39 AM
It seems like an expensive modification to the airplane to get a power port added is kinda redundant then....

Yeah there’s really no reason. And I think leaving your iPad plugged in constantly like some would do is bad for your battery.

nutellacookies
07-18-2018, 03:14 AM
I interviewed the other day. The recruiter stated that they want to posture themselves for 100 NH’s per month. Not sure what they’re at right now, but might this have anything to do with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

knewyork
07-18-2018, 04:27 AM
I interviewed the other day. The recruiter stated that they want to posture themselves for 100 NH’s per month. Not sure what they’re at right now, but might this have anything to do with it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably. We’ve already seen the seniority list grow in the past few months for the first time in over 2 years. We’re up about 80-100 people from where we hovered for a while.

Some of these planes may be replacements but a do think a number of them will be additional frames.

170driver
07-18-2018, 11:16 AM
Probably. We’ve already seen the seniority list grow in the past few months for the first time in over 2 years. We’re up about 80-100 people from where we hovered for a while.



Some of these planes may be replacements but a do think a number of them will be additional frames.



In Bedford’s email he didn’t mention replacements for any of our current fleet. FWIW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

greendotplus10
07-18-2018, 12:22 PM
In Bedford’s email he didn’t mention replacements for any of our current fleet. FWIW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

There's a lot of details that he didn't mention in the announcement. That could be good or bad depending on what details are in question. A lot of good stuff has happened in the 5 months I've been around here, but we shall see what happens.

knewyork
07-18-2018, 02:53 PM
In Bedford’s email he didn’t mention replacements for any of our current fleet. FWIW


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Even our oldest have a few years left on them at least. I just remember some line in that 2018 company plan that mentions something like rejuvenating our fleet.

Happyflyer
07-18-2018, 03:34 PM
Are all the 170s DCI? Maybe the ones that aren't will move over to DCI to replace ASA 700s winding down, and 175s will backfill.
Or Gojets is going TU and some of these will replace their 700s. Or Mesa is losing their United flying in those 700s and replacing them with E175s. Seems common theme here is Delta and United want to convert 700s into Ejets

SoFloFlyer
07-18-2018, 07:59 PM
It’s hard to wrap my mind around the 100 additional frames and an option for another 100 when every mainline carrier is all scoped our. Only thing I can see happening is if we regional carriers replace CRJs for the Ejet

Geardownflaps30
07-19-2018, 01:58 AM
Are all the 170s DCI? Maybe the ones that aren't will move over to DCI to replace ASA 700s winding down, and 175s will backfill.
Or Gojets is going TU and some of these will replace their 700s. Or Mesa is losing their United flying in those 700s and replacing them with E175s. Seems common theme here is Delta and United want to convert 700s into Ejets

Well more than half the 170’s fly in the United ops. Only about 20ish on the Delta side.

Tpinks
07-19-2018, 08:45 PM
Well more than half the 170’s fly in the United ops. Only about 20ish on the Delta side.

Correct. Currently we have 38 United E170's and 22 Delta 170's contracted and our three Company planes (357FC, 809MD and 979RP) are set to become Delta E170's, which will bring the total to 63 Contracted E170's.

amcnd
07-19-2018, 09:08 PM
It’s hard to wrap my mind around the 100 additional frames and an option for another 100 when every mainline carrier is all scoped our. Only thing I can see happening is if we regional carriers replace CRJs for the Ejet

Not when you think of a 3 “mega regional” concept.... give or take there is 14 regionals right now. That will not work with the hiring demand the next 10 years. 3 mega regionals and 4 smaller “nitch” regionals would be able to funnel pilots in, stay 3-4 years then flow to the major partner.. having 14 trying to recruit, train and staff, will fail hard..

SoFloFlyer
07-19-2018, 10:10 PM
Not when you think of a 3 “mega regional” concept.... give or take there is 14 regionals right now. That will not work with the hiring demand the next 10 years. 3 mega regionals and 4 smaller “nitch” regionals would be able to funnel pilots in, stay 3-4 years then flow to the major partner.. having 14 trying to recruit, train and staff, will fail hard..

So basically consolidate the regionals and only have a handful of them?

LoitaHills
07-20-2018, 04:31 AM
Committing to the LOI of 100 airframes commits Embraer to making planes for Republic. That means that new orders que behind. Same for the options, depending on the exercise date. There is more to the announcement than just "oh, we're getting airframes." Committing the manufacturer prioritizes the assembly line to the customer. there are nuances to that...fine print, etc., but BB looks like he's thought it through.



There has been no information regarding additional fleet or replacement airframes. Republic still has many of its original Shuttle America and Mid Atlantic (RW and MA/MD) E170 airframes with double digit serial numbers. Wouldn't be surprised to see them replaced.



School House indicated that they're spooling for 100+ new hires a month after September. Sim time is blocked full. Training just floated another memo for more Training Instructors. They've outgrown the new training center and are looking for options.

4V14T0R
07-20-2018, 06:42 AM
Committing to the LOI of 100 airframes commits Embraer to making planes for Republic. That means that new orders que behind. Same for the options, depending on the exercise date. There is more to the announcement than just "oh, we're getting airframes." Committing the manufacturer prioritizes the assembly line to the customer. there are nuances to that...fine print, etc., but BB looks like he's thought it through.



There has been no information regarding additional fleet or replacement airframes. Republic still has many of its original Shuttle America and Mid Atlantic (RW and MA/MD) E170 airframes with double digit serial numbers. Wouldn't be surprised to see them replaced.



School House indicated that they're spooling for 100+ new hires a month after September. Sim time is blocked full. Training just floated another memo for more Training Instructors. They've outgrown the new training center and are looking for options.


Apparently in the next couple of years they are looking at building a new training center with sims and a hotel CLOSER to the airport.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tpinks
07-20-2018, 10:17 AM
Apparently in the next couple of years they are looking at building a new training center with sims and a hotel CLOSER to the airport.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The training center is already on airport property. when I went through in Early 2017, I believe it was Pat Gannon who said they were hoping to build our own sim center next to the current training building.

4V14T0R
07-21-2018, 12:59 PM
The training center is already on airport property. when I went through in Early 2017, I believe it was Pat Gannon who said they were hoping to build our own sim center next to the current training building.



I know where the training center is... That is why I capitalized it all. I’ve heard another one even closer due to outgrowing the current (slightly used) one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SilentLurker
07-23-2018, 08:33 AM
Does this order help the possibility RPA could buy TSA Holding, keep Compass get into LAX and the west to better compete with SkyPest, replace GoJet CR7, and later 1 for 1 swap the remaining orders, plus options delivery for Tran States Airlines E145s, while replacing your older E175s or if scope flexibility arises execute the E2 amendment in the purchase option.

Could that fit into the realm of possibilities for regional shrinkage? AA, UAL, DL have a significant stake in RPA post bankruptcy anyways, your viability is assured for the next 10yrs (if Trump doesn’t drop a Nuke on Iran for doing what both Iran and Trump do best, talk S*+t)

calmwinds
07-23-2018, 04:04 PM
Does this order help the possibility RPA could buy TSA Holding, keep Compass get into LAX and the west to better compete with SkyPest, replace GoJet CR7, and later 1 for 1 swap the remaining orders, plus options delivery for Tran States Airlines E145s, while replacing your older E175s or if scope flexibility arises execute the E2 amendment in the purchase option.

Could that fit into the realm of possibilities for regional shrinkage? AA, UAL, DL have a significant stake in RPA post bankruptcy anyways, your viability is assured for the next 10yrs (if Trump doesn’t drop a Nuke on Iran for doing what both Iran and Trump do best, talk S*+t)

What would Republic do with the 145’s?

glassnpowder98
07-23-2018, 05:17 PM
What would Republic do with the 145’s?

Republic would still be flying 145’s if they could have staffed them back in 2015-2016.

FlyingKat
07-23-2018, 07:24 PM
Republic would still be flying 145’s if they could have staffed them back in 2015-2016.

These 145XRs would be coming with crews, if they come at all.

KCaviator
10-11-2018, 12:49 PM
Any word on this order/letter of intent? Per Bedford's letter from 7/17, "the LOI outlines key economic and functional structures of the order and requires Republic and Embraer to reach a definitive purchase agreement by the end of the third quarter."

Well, it's the end of the third quarter and no news. I have a feeling this order hinged significantly on the rumored TSH deal. No TSH = no order?

DiamondDriver
10-11-2018, 01:04 PM
Any word on this order/letter of intent? Per Bedford's letter from 7/17, "the LOI outlines key economic and functional structures of the order and requires Republic and Embraer to reach a definitive purchase agreement by the end of the third quarter."

Well, it's the end of the third quarter and no news. I have a feeling this order hinged significantly on the rumored TSH deal. No TSH = no order?

Seriously. It seems as if there are about 3-4 regionals that have growth / shrinkage potential...but all hinge on what the hell is going on with the aircraft under the TSH umbrella.

FlyingKat
10-16-2018, 06:24 PM
Seriously. It seems as if there are about 3-4 regionals that have growth / shrinkage potential...but all hinge on what the hell is going on with the aircraft under the TSH umbrella.

Actually it depends on getting concessions on scope from UAL pilots which they are not willing to give at this point, which is why the TSA deal fell apart. Without those concessions the XRs could not be exchanged for 170s so Bedford walked away.

ChopNDrop
10-28-2018, 08:33 AM
"Earlier this month, Embraer said it removed a 100-plane order from its backlog due to uncertainty about whether pilots would agree to fly its E175-E2 for U.S. regional carriers, because the plane exceeded scope weight limits."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html

Coincidence?

VASBYT
10-28-2018, 08:42 AM
"Earlier this month, Embraer said it removed a 100-plane order from its backlog due to uncertainty about whether pilots would agree to fly its E175-E2 for U.S. regional carriers, because the plane exceeded scope weight limits."

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html

Coincidence?

If you put 2n2 together. I agree. Also, new hire class numbers are back down to the 30ish. So I am thinking it’s not happening.

TurbineTime
10-28-2018, 08:56 AM
"Earlier this month, Embraer said it removed a 100-plane order from its backlog due to uncertainty about whether pilots would agree to fly its E175-E2 for U.S. regional carriers, because the plane exceeded scope weight limits."



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html



Coincidence?



The Republic 100 aircraft order was not for E2’s. I believe the 100 removed were for skywest. Embraer recently said they are finalizing the LOI with Republic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ChopNDrop
10-28-2018, 09:26 AM
The Republic 100 aircraft order was not for E2’s. I believe the 100 removed were for skywest. Embraer recently said they are finalizing the LOI with Republic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yep, you are absolutely correct....

"Embraer also said it had dropped a 100-plane order from Skywest Inc from the backlog due to uncertainty about whether pilots will agree to fly its E175-E2 for U.S. regional carriers."

(different article)
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/embraers-backlog-hits-five-low-143353253.html

amcnd
10-28-2018, 09:27 AM
If you read a actual financial article its more of a new accounting practice.. OO still has the orders. Embraer no longer counts options or LOI’s as a financial gain for accounting. And have taken them of the “back log” of orders.. basically Embraer can’t inflate further earnings with LOI’s or options. Only firm orders.

sailingfun
10-28-2018, 12:00 PM
This may well single the end of the heavier RJ’s.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html

amcnd
10-28-2018, 12:07 PM
This may well single the end of the heavier RJ’s.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html

The E2 doesn’t make good business for a “CPA” regional.. besides the “over weight” issue, The geared engines make for some serious MX issues. (Take a look at Spirt,with there Neo’s) the E2 gear is different and requires mor MX. And all this for fuel savings that a regional doesn’t pay for anyway.... A contract regional doesn’t have the luxury of dealing with the “teething” problems of a new type.. oh and it’s a different type rating supposedly so separate pilot group for the regular E175’s

ChopNDrop
10-28-2018, 01:10 PM
This may well single the end of the heavier RJ’s.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-air-lines-happy-pilot-contract-rules-regional-222531142--sector.html

I hope it does... more mainline jobs. Regardless, I would like to know when/where/how our new toys are going to show up. After the advertising of the LOI (we don't need to beat a dead horse, I know it's only an LOI) things have been relatively quiet about them. It would be nice to know, good or bad, the status.

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 01:11 PM
The E2 doesn’t make good business for a “CPA” regional.. besides the “over weight” issue, The geared engines make for some serious MX issues. (Take a look at Spirt,with there Neo’s) the E2 gear is different and requires mor MX. And all this for fuel savings that a regional doesn’t pay for anyway.... A contract regional doesn’t have the luxury of dealing with the “teething” problems of a new type.. oh and it’s a different type rating supposedly so separate pilot group for the regular E175’s

Not a separate type rating. And scope is the only real issue. Cost savings in fuel would offset added mx costs. First 175-E2 won't even be in production till 2019 and it's a maxi ramp of about 98,000 lbs.

170driver
10-28-2018, 01:13 PM
Not a separate type rating. And scope is the only real issue. Cost savings in fuel would offset added mx costs. First 175-E2 won't even be in production till 2019 and it's a maxi ramp of about 98,000 lbs.



MX is paid for by the contract airline, fuel is paid for by the mainline partner. So no offsetting really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 01:38 PM
MX is paid for by the contract airline, fuel is paid for by the mainline partner. So no offsetting really.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Depends on the contract as far as fuel goes. And if you want to get into nitty-gritty then take into account the more efficient engines having to be serviced less and the trailing link landing gear affecting gear/tire wear and the raked wingtips efficiency. You need to factor all of it in before you make a blanket statement about added costs. For all you know, costs decrease. I deliver the birds from Brazil, so I have a decent understanding of the E2 as I have been on several of them. Granted, the 175 has not yet been produced as I stated earlier. But if the 190/195-E2s are any foreshadowing, then this thing is gonna be great if scope ever grows to meet it.

amcnd
10-28-2018, 03:30 PM
Better double check your “same” type... maybe same. But FAA is considering it different for crews like they did for SWA/AS when the max’s arrived.. (so im told by a training manager)

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 03:44 PM
Better double check your “same” type... maybe same. But FAA is considering it different for crews like they did for SWA/AS when the max’s arrived.. (so im told by a training manager)

AKA a differences CBT? That's all SWA requires to fly the MAX. It's not even different enough to require a "checkout" flight like they do for CRJ fleet with a 2/7/9.

I'm talking type - as in what shows on your cert. It's a B737 type. Not a B737-500/700/MAX8/etc... Same with the E2. Which is why they don't operate with two different fleet pilot groups at SWA, etc - as you suggested in one of your earlier posts for a worry with the E2 being a different "type."

amcnd
10-28-2018, 05:19 PM
AKA a differences CBT? That's all SWA requires to fly the MAX. It's not even different enough to require a "checkout" flight like they do for CRJ fleet with a 2/7/9.

I'm talking type - as in what shows on your cert. It's a B737 type. Not a B737-500/700/MAX8/etc... Same with the E2. Which is why they don't operate with two different fleet pilot groups at SWA, etc - as you suggested in one of your earlier posts for a worry with the E2 being a different "type."

But AS and SWA were required to drop there 737-400’s before the Max’s showed up.. im just telling you what a high up person said about the downfalls of the E2.. and the not likely hood of them showing up to a contract regional..

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 05:35 PM
But AS and SWA were required to drop there 737-400’s before the Max’s showed up.. im just telling you what a high up person said about the downfalls of the E2.. and the not likely hood of them showing up to a contract regional..

I agree it's not likely, but only because of scope. And I'm a SWA pilot. There would be no type issue with the E2. Same type. Same pilot group. Just a few days of differences training. Maybe the cost of the CBT/differences training was all your training dept friend was talking about, because it's not the rating or a separate pilot group.

amcnd
10-28-2018, 05:50 PM
I agree it's not likely, but only because of scope. And I'm a SWA pilot. There would be no type issue with the E2. Same type. Same pilot group. Just a few days of differences training. Maybe the cost of the CBT/differences training was all your training dept friend was talking about, because it's not the rating or a separate pilot group.

Lets revisit this when it gets certified.... (P.S theyalmost went side stick on it. Would that had made it still be able to be the same type under your logic??)

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 05:54 PM
Lets revisit this when it gets certified.... (P.S theyalmost went side stick on it. Would that had made it still be able to be the same type under your logic??)

I actually discussed the E2 development at length with test pilots, engineers, and even the chief pilot who originally chose the ram horn style they have grown to be known for.

Do you even know what's required to keep something under the same type? This conversation is going in circles. I suggest doing some research before coming up with claims in a public forum. Safe flying

amcnd
10-28-2018, 05:55 PM
I actually discussed the E2 development at length with test pilots, engineers, and even the chief pilot who originally chose the ram horn style they have grown to be known for.

Do you even know what's required to keep something under the same type? This conversation is going in circles. I suggest doing some research before coming up with claims in a public forum. Safe flying

Well my airline that operates them we would do separate pilot groups.... just like some CRJ operators do. (We don’t)

JBirdE175
10-28-2018, 05:59 PM
Well my airline that operates them we would do separate pilot groups.... just like some CRJ operators do. (We don’t)

Seems efficient.

ChopNDrop
10-29-2018, 07:01 AM
Anyway... anyone heard any rumors about when an announcement, good or bad, will be made about the new whips?

170driver
10-29-2018, 07:07 AM
Anyway... anyone heard any rumors about when an announcement, good or bad, will be made about the new whips?



Company Christmas Party I’m sure...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Captain Slow
10-29-2018, 07:20 AM
The usual management training center visits for recurrent are indicating that they are still on the way, and that the equipment options for the first 100 have been finalized. Additionally some upgrades on the way for the existing fleet in terms of EFB power sources, epic load 27.2 and whatnot.

170driver
10-29-2018, 07:22 AM
The usual management training center visits for recurrent are indicating that they are still on the way, and that the equipment options for the first 100 have been finalized. Additionally some upgrades on the way for the existing fleet in terms of EFB power sources, epic load 27.2 and whatnot.



Is epic 27.2 what Skywest is using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Captain Slow
10-29-2018, 07:43 AM
Not sure if they’re 27.1 or 27.2, they use some variant of 27.

170driver
10-29-2018, 07:45 AM
Not sure if they’re 27.1 or 27.2, they use some variant of 27.



I had heard it was quite a costly process for us to upgrade some of our older 170s to 27 due to having to replace the processors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

TheWeatherman
10-29-2018, 07:53 AM
I had heard it was quite a costly process for us to upgrade some of our older 170s to 27 due to having to replace the processors.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
True, there are about 30 something that wouldn't be able to update without an expensive upgrade. Those will be the first to be phased out so we can update the whole fleet. None of the aircraft will be updated until the whole fleet can be updated with the same Epic load.

Captain Slow
10-29-2018, 08:07 AM
It’s about $200k a pop for ~44 airplanes that need processor updates.

In the grand scheme of airplane money, that’s not a ton, so I imagine they’ll weigh where all of those airplanes sit in terms of life expectancy and heavy phase maintenance before they decide to replace them or update them.

amcnd
10-29-2018, 08:19 AM
Is epic 27.2 what Skywest is using?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Yes.... 27.2....

KCaviator
10-29-2018, 01:11 PM
Yes.... 27.2....

Wasn’t SkyWest having issues with the FMS in 27.1? Have those bugs been worked out with 27.2?

Captain Slow
10-29-2018, 01:36 PM
It’s Honeywell, so any bugs worked out are offset by new and improved bugs that are harder to kill.

JBirdE175
10-29-2018, 05:14 PM
Wasn’t SkyWest having issues with the FMS in 27.1? Have those bugs been worked out with 27.2?

SkyWest has started to receive 27.2 but the fleet is by no means fully converted. They operated 27.1 for the last several years and were indeed the guinea pig. Many problems we won't get into. I sat in with Honeywell, KLM, SkyWest, Embraer, and more recently Horizon. Any anomalies were addressed and sought to be solved. Most were fixed with the new version of the 27 load. But some issues are deeply embedded in Honeywell logic that cannot be fixed to this day (aka the IRONMAN arrival).

Goose Lives
10-30-2018, 07:18 AM
Want to clarify: It's a letter of intent for 100 with and additional 100. Order for the first 100 should be firmed up by the end of the year and deliveries starting Q2 2019.

On that note 40 of the 100 will be used to replace the older a/c and the 60 with be new hulls.

KCaviator
10-30-2018, 07:26 AM
Want to clarify: It's a letter of intent for 100 with and additional 100. Order for the first 100 should be firmed up by the end of the year and deliveries starting Q2 2019.

On that note 40 of the 100 will be used to replace the older a/c and the 60 with be new hulls.

Source.......?

170driver
10-30-2018, 07:27 AM
Want to clarify: It's a letter of intent for 100 with and additional 100. Order for the first 100 should be firmed up by the end of the year and deliveries starting Q2 2019.

On that note 40 of the 100 will be used to replace the older a/c and the 60 with be new hulls.



Is this reliable information?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

chrisreedrules
10-30-2018, 07:35 AM
60 new hulls to be flown for who exactly? Scope limitations at the big 3 definitely come into play...

Tpinks
10-30-2018, 07:42 AM
Is this reliable information?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Im pretty sure...

Tpinks
10-30-2018, 07:50 AM
60 new hulls to be flown for who exactly? Scope limitations at the big 3 definitely come into play...

American is reducing CRJ7 seating count to 65 (from 67 I believe) which makes them a small regional allowing additional 76 seaters. Plus American scope is based off of ratios between mainline and eagle, not hard airframe limits like Delta/UA.

United is currently replacing CRJ7's outright with 175SC's. They have announced 25/45 will be replaced, but all 45 have contracts ending next year, so they may be replacing ALL of them and just haven't said so yet.

Gojets have their DL CRJ9 contract ending next year I believe, which those planes are some of the oldest around I believe.

Mesa's CRJ9 contract is also due for rebid next year as well. Mesa also has a large portion of their Ejet fleet coming up for rebid next year.

And Alaska has no scope so we could be adding a new partner.

There is a possibility for a lot of aircraft movement over the next year or two, which could stem aircraft retirements and new frames to replace older ones.

TheWeatherman
10-30-2018, 07:59 AM
60 new hulls to be flown for who exactly? Scope limitations at the big 3 definitely come into play...
The word is once we have the capacity we will get the lines. Not sure if they will come from new American or Delta lines who do have some room on their scope, or we will get them from other Regionals who have poorer performance issues.

Nh114
10-31-2018, 07:08 AM
Gojets have their DL CRJ9 contract ending next year I believe, which those planes are some of the oldest around I believe.

Gojets 900s are just 10 years old and the 700s avg 12..

Longhornmaniac8
10-31-2018, 01:28 PM
At Indoc today, Matt Koscal said they anticipate the vast majority of the 100 airframes to be growth, not replacement. He said they would begin delivery in the second half of 2020, for what it's worth.

He said they're planning to reduce the seat count on the 70-seat 170s to 65 and fly them for AA as small RJs, affording YX an opportunity to grow without needing any scope relief.

TheWeatherman
10-31-2018, 01:31 PM
At Indoc today, Matt Koscal said they anticipate the vast majority of the 100 airframes to be growth, not replacement. He said they would begin delivery in the second half of 2020, for what it's worth.

He said they're planning to reduce the seat count on the 70-seat 170s to 65 and fly them for AA as small RJs, affording YX an opportunity to grow without needing any scope relief.
Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing.

amcnd
10-31-2018, 02:45 PM
At Indoc today, Matt Koscal said they anticipate the vast majority of the 100 airframes to be growth, not replacement. He said they would begin delivery in the second half of 2020, for what it's worth.

He said they're planning to reduce the seat count on the 70-seat 170s to 65 and fly them for AA as small RJs, affording YX an opportunity to grow without needing any scope relief.

How many 170’s is RP flying for AA?? I thought none??

Captain Slow
10-31-2018, 03:06 PM
None. But since we own almost all our airplanes we can shift them around as needed to make changes. Convert the HQ birds to 70 seats and paint them in United colors.... boom. Status quo but with more room for growth.

chrisreedrules
10-31-2018, 04:05 PM
At Indoc today, Matt Koscal said they anticipate the vast majority of the 100 airframes to be growth, not replacement. He said they would begin delivery in the second half of 2020, for what it's worth.

He said they're planning to reduce the seat count on the 70-seat 170s to 65 and fly them for AA as small RJs, affording YX an opportunity to grow without needing any scope relief.

Perhaps. But AA has stated in no uncertain terms that they have a very distinct cost advantage at the WOs due to the fact that they keep all of the profits and their cost structure is lower than the contract-regionals. Taking a 175 down to 65 seats makes that margin all the wider.

I don’t doubt that Republic could gain some AA flying but I think any growth will likely be at Envoy and PSA for the WO feed. Piedmont in my opinion is the wild card.

chrisreedrules
10-31-2018, 04:06 PM
How many 170’s is RP flying for AA?? I thought none??

Quite a few I think? I know they’re in DCA, PHL, MIA, and CLT in AA colors.

Nvm disregard I just saw the 170...

Captain Slow
10-31-2018, 05:07 PM
Perhaps. But AA has stated in no uncertain terms that they have a very distinct cost advantage at the WOs due to the fact that they keep all of the profits and their cost structure is lower than the contract-regionals. Taking a 175 down to 65 seats makes that margin all the wider.

I don’t doubt that Republic could gain some AA flying but I think any growth will likely be at Envoy and PSA for the WO feed. Piedmont in my opinion is the wild card.

Hence this whole CRJ rumor. There are some pretty solid leads that we have developed CR7/9 maintenance and training programs.

I could see AA using these to leverage against their WO’s as part of the allmighty whipsaw.

Not saying that is the case, but there is most certainly a game of chess being played.

chrisreedrules
10-31-2018, 08:13 PM
Hence this whole CRJ rumor. There are some pretty solid leads that we have developed CR7/9 maintenance and training programs.

I could see AA using these to leverage against their WO’s as part of the allmighty whipsaw.

Not saying that is the case, but there is most certainly a game of chess being played.

How would Republic taking on CRJs change anything I said?

Viking6
11-01-2018, 06:40 AM
Rumor confirmed! CRP and IAH base. I suspect this will be a long term CPA!

Longhornmaniac8
11-01-2018, 08:44 AM
Perhaps. But AA has stated in no uncertain terms that they have a very distinct cost advantage at the WOs due to the fact that they keep all of the profits and their cost structure is lower than the contract-regionals. Taking a 175 down to 65 seats makes that margin all the wider.

I don’t doubt that Republic could gain some AA flying but I think any growth will likely be at Envoy and PSA for the WO feed. Piedmont in my opinion is the wild card.His position on that was that as the 50-seaters approach their end of life, it's a way for AA to increase scope without increasing scope.

They're not going to take 11 seats out of an Envoy (or Republic) 175, but taking 5 seats out of an old 70-seater 170 that needs to be refreshed anyway (and is already paid for) to gain additional "large" RJ flying isn't such a bad deal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Longhornmaniac8
11-01-2018, 08:55 AM
Rumor confirmed! CRP and IAH base. I suspect this will be a long term CPA!Say what?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

chrisreedrules
11-01-2018, 10:19 AM
His position on that was that as the 50-seaters approach their end of life, it's a way for AA to increase scope without increasing scope.

They're not going to take 11 seats out of an Envoy (or Republic) 175, but taking 5 seats out of an old 70-seater 170 that needs to be refreshed anyway (and is already paid for) to gain additional "large" RJ flying isn't such a bad deal.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Ahh I see what you’re saying now. Yea that would make a lot more sense than reducing a 76-sweat aircraft to 65 seats.

3400
11-05-2018, 07:12 AM
Not to mention, SkyWest just added a ton of CRJ-700 flying at AA that counts for “small RJ’s”. AA is taking every 70 seat RJ they can get their hands on and taking 5 seats out and painting it. I expect the 170s there soon.

cf105
11-05-2018, 08:48 AM
Perhaps. But AA has stated in no uncertain terms that they have a very distinct cost advantage at the WOs due to the fact that they keep all of the profits and their cost structure is lower than the contract-regionals. Taking a 175 down to 65 seats makes that margin all the wider.

I don’t doubt that Republic could gain some AA flying but I think any growth will likely be at Envoy and PSA for the WO feed. Piedmont in my opinion is the wild card.

First of all, Envoy/PSA/Piedmont profits don't go into AA'a profit. They are independent companies that belong to the same financial group.

If there was a very distinct advantage resulting in more profit making making results for AAG, they would not still be using 6 non-wholly-owned in 2018, and they are. They wouldn't be shifting flying back and forth between some of their WOs and non-WOs, and they still do.

Contracting airlines has a huge benefit: keep your profit making structure while not having to deal with all the hassle/problems that comes with operational cost, payroll and HR.

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 09:47 AM
First of all, Envoy/PSA/Piedmont profits don't go into AA'a profit. They are independent companies that belong to the same financial group.





Last time I checked, money made by a wholly owned company is 100 percent made by the patent company. PSA, ENY, and PDT are independent companies owned by AAG. That’s correct, but the profits that AAG reports a are those of mainline, PDT, PSA, and ENY included as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

4V14T0R
11-05-2018, 09:52 AM
Last time I checked, money made by a wholly owned company is 100 percent made by the patent company. PSA, ENY, and PDT are independent companies owned by AAG. That’s correct, but the profits that AAG reports a are those of mainline, PDT, PSA, and ENY included as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I think the only reason they remain separate is because of the inevitable whipsaw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 09:55 AM
Last time I checked, money made by a wholly owned company is 100 percent made by the patent company. PSA, ENY, and PDT are independent companies owned by AAG. That’s correct, but the profits that AAG reports a are those of mainline, PDT, PSA, and ENY included as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not disagreeing with that, but the post about the 3 wholly profits not contributing to AAG profits is incorrect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chrisreedrules
11-05-2018, 10:07 AM
First of all, Envoy/PSA/Piedmont profits don't go into AA'a profit. They are independent companies that belong to the same financial group.

If there was a very distinct advantage resulting in more profit making making results for AAG, they would not still be using 6 non-wholly-owned in 2018, and they are. They wouldn't be shifting flying back and forth between some of their WOs and non-WOs, and they still do.

Contracting airlines has a huge benefit: keep your profit making structure while not having to deal with all the hassle/problems that comes with operational cost, payroll and HR.

There is so much incorrect with this post I don’t know where to begin.

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 10:08 AM
There is so much incorrect with this post I don’t know where to begin.



I started for ya


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cf105
11-05-2018, 11:50 AM
There is so much incorrect with this post I don’t know where to begin.

Start from the beginning then.

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 11:55 AM
Start from the beginning then.



I already took care of your 1st paragraph but where did you get 6 wholly owns from? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name User
11-05-2018, 12:13 PM
I already took care of your 1st paragraph but where did you get 6 wholly owns from? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Read it again?

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 12:15 PM
Read it again?


Yup my bad I read wrong. He did say non-wholly owned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Swakid8
11-05-2018, 12:16 PM
Yup my bad I read wrong. He did say non-wholly owned. That’s what Long airport sits and delays do for ya sometimes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

chrisreedrules
11-05-2018, 02:04 PM
Start from the beginning then.

Fine then...

chrisreedrules
11-05-2018, 02:18 PM
First of all, Envoy/PSA/Piedmont profits don't go into AA'a profit. They are independent companies that belong to the same financial group.
They most certainly do. It is part of what makes having a WO regional so alluring.

If there was a very distinct advantage resulting in more profit making making results for AAG, they would not still be using 6 non-wholly-owned in 2018, and they are. They wouldn't be shifting flying back and forth between some of their WOs and non-WOs, and they still do.
They can’t instantaeously wind down non-WO regional carriers. The way the market is now we are seeing unprecedented moves made by many of the LCCs and ACMI carriers to secure pilot feed. Look at Kalitta and the ExpressJet pilots for reference. The second it is announced that they are transferring/shifting flying the regional losing said flying will implode rapidly. It is a pilot’s market and there are plenty of jobs out there. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t. AA has been following through on just about everything they’ve stated they want to do in the past 5 years. They have stated that they want 3 WO carriers and 2 contract carriers. Why would that magically change just because the full timeline for this reduction in contract carriers hasn’t been completed yet? In regards to the shifting in flying, most of what you’re seeing is CRJ700s to PSA so they can operate an all-CRJ fleet and Envoy can operate an all-ERJ fleet. And Piedmont is getting 145s to replace the D8s and pickup the 50-seat flying all along the smaller but lucrative east coast markets.
Contracting airlines has a huge benefit: keep your profit making structure while not having to deal with all the hassle/problems that comes with operational cost, payroll and HR.
This isn’t a wrong point, but it isn’t entirely accurate. The downside to using contract carriers comes from 2 big things: 1) You have far less control over your product and the woes that may or may not affect the contract regional and 2) you must now split any profits with the contract carrier as opposed to keeping all the profits for yourself. Here is the upside to having a couple of larger contract regionals: You don’t have to pay for and maintain the certification and training standards for specific flight ops. And by that I mean Aspen flying and over-water Caribbean flying. Why spend the money to have your WOs trained and certified when you can pay a marginal fee to have your contract carrier who already happens to maintain those training and certification standards to do it?


Answers bolded above...

cf105
11-05-2018, 07:14 PM
Last time I checked, money made by a wholly owned company is 100 percent made by the patent company. PSA, ENY, and PDT are independent companies owned by AAG. That’s correct, but the profits that AAG reports a are those of mainline, PDT, PSA, and ENY included as well.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was talking about AA the airline, not AAG the financial group. The 4 airlines of the Group do not have the same CFO and CEO as far as I am concern, not the same payroll and not the same expenses account.

cf105
11-05-2018, 07:15 PM
I already took care of your 1st paragraph but where did you get 6 wholly owns from? Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never wrote "6 WO". Read again.

cf105
11-05-2018, 07:17 PM
but the post about the 3 wholly profits not contributing to AAG profits is incorrect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never wrote AAG. I was talking about AA itself, not AAG the financial group. One of them is still contracting 6 non-WOs, while at there same time using the group's 3 WOs.

cf105
11-05-2018, 07:48 PM
They are independent companies that belong to the same financial group. They most certainly do. It is part of what makes having a WO regional so alluring.

As you are saying and what I meant, independent companies that belong to the same financial group. Comair... Nothing is ever certain, nothing is protected, financial organizations buy and sell, close and start assets as they please/need. It is alluring to have financial assets, as much as profiting for selling or closing them do. Unpredictable.

They can’t instantaeously wind down non-WO regional carriers. The way the market is now we are seeing unprecedented moves made by many of the LCCs and ACMI carriers to secure pilot feed. Look at Kalitta and the ExpressJet pilots for reference. The second it is announced that they are transferring/shifting flying the regional losing said flying will implode rapidly. It is a pilot’s market and there are plenty of jobs out there. Just because it hasn’t happened yet doesn’t mean it won’t. AA has been following through on just about everything they’ve stated they want to do in the past 5 years. They have stated that they want 3 WO carriers and 2 contract carriers. Why would that magically change just because the full timeline for this reduction in contract carriers hasn’t been completed yet? In regards to the shifting in flying, most of what you’re seeing is CRJ700s to PSA so they can operate an all-CRJ fleet and Envoy can operate an all-ERJ fleet. And Piedmont is getting 145s to replace the D8s and pickup the 50-seat flying all along the smaller but lucrative east coast markets.

Very interesting that they are planning to keep 2 non WO carriers... Leverage? Is it that the 2 they will keep have a better completion rate than their 3 WOs right now? Anyway, all of the above is assumption as when will it happen, if it happens and we don't even know if 2 of the 3 WOs will be absorbed by 1 or if one will be dismantled with assets and pilots send to one of the other. At this points, it's just financial assets with all the guarantees that it means.



This isn’t a wrong point, but it isn’t entirely accurate. The downside to using contract carriers comes from 2 big things: 1) You have far less control over your product and the woes that may or may not affect the contract regional and
Maybe on inflight training and quality control but definitely not on operational, flights cancellations, flight delays. 2 or 3 of the non-WO regionals working for AA have a much better completion rate and on time arrival. And Legacy airlines thrive on that

2) you must now split any profits with the contract carrier as opposed to keeping all the profits for yourself.

I may be wrong but from the financial structures, the business models and the way they work, I see that AA the airline makes the same profits, if not more, using the regional contract airlines, because they control/decide the buying price of service: you wanna work for the big guy, offer him the price he's asking. AA demands and gets the price they want for a route. They are not splitting any profit with the contracted airlines. 1 company offers a service, another company purchase that service, no one is sharing anything. Most probably exactly the same price they get from using the 3 AAG WOs (remember, not the same bank account, Envoy has to invoice services to AA). Difference between there contract airlines, for example is that RAH doesn't invoice per seat on routes but per plane on routes.

Here is the upside to having a couple of larger contract regionals: You don’t have to pay for and maintain the certification and training standards for specific flight ops. And by that I mean Aspen flying and over-water Caribbean flying. Why spend the money to have your WOs trained and certified when you can pay a marginal fee to have your contract carrier who already happens to maintain those training and certification standards to do it?

Again, a company contract other companies to deliver a service, said company needs, at the price said company needs.
Believe me, the cost of training for Caribbean/Central America ops, as EOW ops is peanuts.... like the cost of having 1 or 2 guys write an International Operation Guide and have it on the iPad. :rolleyes:

It's supply and demand. They need all these 6 contract airlines for right now, will let one go if another one can provide the same flying to replace the departing one. But they will always keep some cheapos in order to keep everyone's price under control. They will Neve rallow themselves to be controlled by AAG's WO or by airlines like Skywest or RAH who would love to increase cost of service to help their payroll and profits.



Answers bolded above...[/QUOTE]

Fun times

chrisreedrules
11-06-2018, 02:24 AM
AAG has not minced words in any of their quarterly townhalls or state of the airline addresses or filings that they make more money from their WOs than non-WOs. That is fact. I’m not sure where exactly you’re getting your info from...

MD-11Loader
11-11-2018, 12:51 AM
AAG has not minced words in any of their quarterly townhalls or state of the airline addresses or filings that they make more money from their WOs than non-WOs. That is fact. I’m not sure where exactly you’re getting your info from...

Not sure if the PSA employees can see this, but it was on our jetnet earlier this Years. Isom says at the end “each time we can take an aircraft into one of our wholly owned’s, it can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars per year of revenue.”

https://w.wg1.kontiki.com/widgets/aa/player/e1b78dda-48f5-490e-919b-7e1206f08dd8?params=MD10cnVlOzE9MTM7MTI9ZmFsc2U=&valetKey=vk_c982cgyybid9c2bml0f3euec6mgjk2o0

chrisreedrules
11-11-2018, 04:19 AM
Not sure if the PSA employees can see this, but it was on our jetnet earlier this Years. Isom says at the end “each time we can take an aircraft into one of our wholly owned’s, it can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars per year of revenue.”

https://w.wg1.kontiki.com/widgets/aa/player/e1b78dda-48f5-490e-919b-7e1206f08dd8?params=MD10cnVlOzE9MTM7MTI9ZmFsc2U=&valetKey=vk_c982cgyybid9c2bml0f3euec6mgjk2o0

Yea I’ve seen that. Buddy of mine is a management pilot over at AAG. He said the original plan as they understood it was that AAG wanted 3 WOs flying different types and 2 or maybe 3 contract carriers. That has been their plan since I have been at a WO. Just this year apparently AAG has said that they want to bring more flying in-house and eventually have a 100% WO feed. I personally think that may be a bit of a pipe dream unless they decide to make pay a priority but that apparently is what they have been told.

OffAtTango
11-11-2018, 04:40 PM
Mesa - 64 CRJ-900's
Republic - 84 E170's
Skywest - 60 CRJ-700's
Compass - 20 E170's

228 American Eagle aircraft are operated by non-wholly owned airlines. I believe only Compass's are owned by AAG so they could transfer those to Envoy if they really wanted to. That still leaves over 200 non-WO, non owned by AAG, 76 seat regional jets. You have to be delusional to think that AA would give up that much lift. Plus, once fuel prices rise again, the first planes to be parked will be the 50 seaters which only the wholly owns fly.

Varsity
11-11-2018, 07:07 PM
Mesa - 64 CRJ-900's
Republic - 84 E170's
Skywest - 60 CRJ-700's
Compass - 20 E170's

228 American Eagle aircraft are operated by non-wholly owned airlines. I believe only Compass's are owned by AAG so they could transfer those to Envoy if they really wanted to. That still leaves over 200 non-WO, non owned by AAG, 76 seat regional jets. You have to be delusional to think that AA would give up that much lift. Plus, once fuel prices rise again, the first planes to be parked will be the 50 seaters which only the wholly owns fly.

AA also owns some of the Skywest CRJ's. They are the only aircraft Skywest operates that they do not own.

Mesa's CRJ-900's are the oldest ever built. It's not unfathomable to see them replaced by new orders at PSA or 175's at Envoy.

Nh114
11-12-2018, 04:13 AM
AA also owns some of the Skywest CRJ's. They are the only aircraft Skywest operates that they do not own.

Mesa's CRJ-900's are the oldest ever built. It's not unfathomable to see them replaced by new orders at PSA or 175's at Envoy.

I don’t believe SkyWest flys any AA owned. And Mesas oldest 900 is 15 years, that’s not all that old.

jriveraaw
11-12-2018, 05:07 AM
AA also owns some of the Skywest CRJ's. They are the only aircraft Skywest operates that they do not own.

Mesa's CRJ-900's are the oldest ever built. It's not unfathomable to see them replaced by new orders at PSA or 175's at Envoy.

Mesa’s 900s I’m pretty sure are also owned by AAG. I know they’re leased, as the only plane they own is a little 200 painted white and kept as a last resort standby. I have no idea if this is simply upgrades or what, but they’re getting a nice amount of “NextGen” CRJ 900s that is somewhat appealing.

zondaracer
11-12-2018, 05:31 AM
I don’t believe SkyWest flys any AA owned. And Mesas oldest 900 is 15 years, that’s not all that old.

SkyWest owns the 700s. They have some 900s that are Delta owned.

greendotplus10
11-12-2018, 05:44 AM
Mesa’s 900s I’m pretty sure are also owned by AAG. I know they’re leased, as the only plane they own is a little 200 painted white and kept as a last resort standby. I have no idea if this is simply upgrades or what, but they’re getting a nice amount of “NextGen” CRJ 900s that is somewhat appealing.

Not sure if "Registered Owner" on faa.gov and/or FlightAware has any validity for true ownership. I've looked up a few Eagle birds flying in DFW. Some were "Mesa Airlines, Inc." but others "Wells Fargo Trust", with similar airframe age ('04). Mesa E-jets all seem to be United "owned".

zondaracer
11-12-2018, 05:52 AM
Not sure if "Registered Owner" on faa.gov and/or FlightAware has any validity for true ownership. I've looked up a few Eagle birds flying in DFW. Some were "Mesa Airlines, Inc." but others "Wells Fargo Trust", with similar airframe age ('04). Mesa E-jets all seem to be United "owned".

About a fifth of the Mesa E175s are Mesa owned. The rest are United owned.

jriveraaw
11-12-2018, 08:33 AM
Not sure if "Registered Owner" on faa.gov and/or FlightAware has any validity for true ownership. I've looked up a few Eagle birds flying in DFW. Some were "Mesa Airlines, Inc." but others "Wells Fargo Trust", with similar airframe age ('04). Mesa E-jets all seem to be United "owned".

I have no clue how it works. Being that they're leased, it may show them as ownership, or maybe they're currently in the process of buying them since they've become public recently.

chrisreedrules
11-12-2018, 08:44 AM
AAG owns some of the Mesa 900s or is the main creditor for them etc... If they wanted to move them from Mesa they could.

I do not believe AAG owns any SkyWest 700s.

AAG is parking all of the CRJ200s at PSA and replacing them with CRJ900NGs beginning 2019 and likely culminating 2021/2022.

The 175s at Compass will likely come back in-house to Envoy at some point. I know this has been said for a long while now but there is no reason AAG wouldn’t want these at Envoy. I think more of this will play out once TSH is either broken up and sold or purchased by someone outright. I believe that if Republic had been successful in purchasing Compass the 175s would have likely stayed at RAH. Now I think it’s more likely than ever that Envoy will get those 175s back.

Piedmont and the 145s is still a bit of a question mark. They were originally told that they would be getting 175s but the story I heard was that the FAA wouldn’t certify them to go to a 175 from the Dash8, so the compromise was to fly 145s? But there will always be a market on the east coast for a 50-seat or smaller light jet to serve many of the prolific smaller markets that simply don’t support a larger aircraft.

The way I see it is Envoy will eventually fly primarily the 175. PSA will fly the 700/900. And Piedmont will fly 145s until they decide to do something else with them. Republic will fly 175s and SkyWest will fly CRJs for AAG. All others I think are uncertain.

I also wouldn’t count out the possibility of AAG purchasing another regional at some point and making them a WO. As their retirements really hit the accelerator they may be looking at ways to not only secure more reliable regional feed but also a cost-effective pipeline to fill their mainline aircraft...

amcnd
11-12-2018, 09:20 AM
I don’t believe SkyWest flys any AA owned. And Mesas oldest 900 is 15 years, that’s not all that old.

Correct. AA doesn’t own any of SkyWests aircraft.. its simple. Keep a few regionals that don’t cost you long term debt if a ressesion hits... Compass Jets i see longtime going back to AA just because of that ownership issues..

jriveraaw
11-12-2018, 09:34 AM
I also wouldn’t count out the possibility of AAG purchasing another regional at some point and making them a WO. As their retirements really hit the accelerator they may be looking at ways to not only secure more reliable regional feed but also a cost-effective pipeline to fill their mainline aircraft...

This isn't far from what i expect, especially after Mesa went public. JO claimed the purpose was to get more investments to purchase all aircraft, but it wouldn't be the worst idea for AAG to get involved. It would allow them to expand westward for a potential pilot pipeline.

BeechPilot33
11-12-2018, 10:17 AM
AAG owns some of the Mesa 900s or is the main creditor for them etc... If they wanted to move them from Mesa they could.

I do not believe AAG owns any SkyWest 700s.

AAG is parking all of the CRJ200s at PSA and replacing them with CRJ900NGs beginning 2019 and likely culminating 2021/2022.

The 175s at Compass will likely come back in-house to Envoy at some point. I know this has been said for a long while now but there is no reason AAG wouldn’t want these at Envoy. I think more of this will play out once TSH is either broken up and sold or purchased by someone outright. I believe that if Republic had been successful in purchasing Compass the 175s would have likely stayed at RAH. Now I think it’s more likely than ever that Envoy will get those 175s back.

Piedmont and the 145s is still a bit of a question mark. They were originally told that they would be getting 175s but the story I heard was that the FAA wouldn’t certify them to go to a 175 from the Dash8, so the compromise was to fly 145s? But there will always be a market on the east coast for a 50-seat or smaller light jet to serve many of the prolific smaller markets that simply don’t support a larger aircraft.

The way I see it is Envoy will eventually fly primarily the 175. PSA will fly the 700/900. And Piedmont will fly 145s until they decide to do something else with them. Republic will fly 175s and SkyWest will fly CRJs for AAG. All others I think are uncertain.

I also wouldn’t count out the possibility of AAG purchasing another regional at some point and making them a WO. As their retirements really hit the accelerator they may be looking at ways to not only secure more reliable regional feed but also a cost-effective pipeline to fill their mainline aircraft...



What is the plan for pulling out seats at PSA and other regionals to increase large RJ scope. How many do they have left to do?

I see that as the only way to increase large RJ scope. I don't see the big three giving up scope in next years section 6. AA specifically is tied to narrowbody airframes which is set to actually decrease slightly next year before going up slightly in 2020 or 21. No big changes and with oil going up it will be interesting to see what happens. it might be shifting large RJ's from one regional to the next depending if they can staff.

DiamondDriver
11-12-2018, 11:13 AM
I don’t believe SkyWest flys any AA owned. And Mesas oldest 900 is 15 years, that’s not all that old.

Aren’t those 20 new DL 900s owned by Delta?

amcnd
11-12-2018, 11:25 AM
Aren’t those 20 new DL 900s owned by Delta?

Yes. I suspect they were they were slated to go to Endeavor.. but they have bigger fish to fry..

chrisreedrules
11-12-2018, 12:08 PM
What is the plan for pulling out seats at PSA and other regionals to increase large RJ scope. How many do they have left to do?

I see that as the only way to increase large RJ scope. I don't see the big three giving up scope in next years section 6. AA specifically is tied to narrowbody airframes which is set to actually decrease slightly next year before going up slightly in 2020 or 21. No big changes and with oil going up it will be interesting to see what happens. it might be shifting large RJ's from one regional to the next depending if they can staff.

AAG has been actively pulling seats out of 700s since last year.

fortyeight
11-13-2018, 03:26 AM
FWIW Bedford came in to our upgrade class and told us straight up we’re not buying TSA but the contracts expiring west 2019/2020 (Compass) is what they have their eye on and what they ordered 100+ 170’s for.

BigZ
11-13-2018, 04:58 AM
AAG has been actively pulling seats out of 700s since last year.

How many seats did yours originally have? Envoy's were 63 and 65 for NG, by now almost all if not all older a/c have been converted to 65.

chrisreedrules
11-13-2018, 05:06 AM
How many seats did yours originally have? Envoy's were 63 and 65 for NG, by now almost all if not all older a/c have been converted to 65.

Originally ours were 67 seats...

chrisreedrules
11-13-2018, 05:08 AM
FWIW Bedford came in to our upgrade class and told us straight up we’re not buying TSA but the contracts expiring west 2019/2020 (Compass) is what they have their eye on and what they ordered 100+ 170’s for.

Correct. I think the plan initially was to purchase Compass. That didn’t work out for one reason or the other so plan B is to take that flying once the contracts come up beginning in 2019 and expand west. Makes sense...

sailingfun
11-13-2018, 05:18 AM
Correct. I think the plan initially was to purchase Compass. That didn’t work out for one reason or the other so plan B is to take that flying once the contracts come up beginning in 2019 and expand west. Makes sense...

Keep in mind that most orders placed like this have a out clause canceling the order of the expected flying contracts are not received.

knewyork
11-13-2018, 08:08 AM
All we know is something needs to happen. I don’t think Republic wants to be this heavy on pilots. We have over 300 more than we did this time last year and we’re flying the same amount of airplanes. Any other regional in the position besides endeavor maybe? Lots of pilots and nowhere to put them really.

Viking6
11-13-2018, 09:59 AM
FWIW Bedford came in to our upgrade class and told us straight up we’re not buying TSA but the contracts expiring west 2019/2020 (Compass) is what they have their eye on and what they ordered 100+ 170’s for.

I wouldn’t believe anything BB says, because he has said many, many things that didn’t happen. He is very good at manipulation. Something will happen soon though, because we will be over staffed this spring without some type of growth.

fortyeight
11-13-2018, 12:28 PM
I wouldn’t believe anything BB says, because he has said many, many things that didn’t happen. He is very good at manipulation. Something will happen soon though, because we will be over staffed this spring without some type of growth.

And we’re slowing FO hiring down to 20-30/month as opposed to the 60ish/month we’re hiring now. We’re over staffed like crazy for the first time in a long time. Republic is about to get extremely selective in their FO hiring. Not just anyone off the street anymore.

Captain Slow
11-13-2018, 01:15 PM
They’ve been fairly selective for the last year or so. I know quite a few that got turned away, and we already have a policy against taking other companies’ washouts.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tpinks
11-13-2018, 02:36 PM
And we’re slowing FO hiring down to 20-30/month as opposed to the 60ish/month we’re hiring now. We’re over staffed like crazy for the first time in a long time. Republic is about to get extremely selective in their FO hiring. Not just anyone off the street anymore.

That probably has more to do with the backlog of new FO's they have created rather than no/slowed growth plans.

Republic is properly staffed right now, we are only "overstaffed" compared to the anemic republic staffing levels they previously had to live off of.

terminalgoods
11-13-2018, 02:41 PM
Interviewed for FO November 7. Offered position with nearest class date of May 14, 2019

That probably has more to do with the backlog of new FO's they have created rather than no/slowed growth plans.

Republic is properly staffed right now, we are only "overstaffed" compared to the anemic republic staffing levels they previously had to live off of.

MrFriendly7
11-13-2018, 03:15 PM
Interviewed for FO November 7. Offered position with nearest class date of May 14, 2019

:eek: Man thats pretty wild 7 months!

dera
11-13-2018, 05:41 PM
They just had a cancellation in the December 11th class... ;)

Shosty5
11-13-2018, 06:01 PM
Interviewed for FO November 7. Offered position with nearest class date of May 14, 2019

I interviewed on November 2, and was informed that my interview was successful. I was not given a class date due to my recruiter being on vacation — she is still on vacation, so it seems I’m being pushed down the line of first available class dates, which is now mid May. Any suggestions?

Viking6
11-13-2018, 07:05 PM
That probably has more to do with the backlog of new FO's they have created rather than no/slowed growth plans.

Republic is properly staffed right now, we are only "overstaffed" compared to the anemic republic staffing levels they previously had to live off of.

That’s a good point! May be we will able to drop a trip.

fortyeight
11-14-2018, 02:28 PM
That’s a good point! May be we will able to drop a trip.

LOL! Good one.

Tigflt17
11-15-2018, 06:50 AM
As of this morning, interviewees are getting class dates for June 2019. All classes full, reduced class sizes due to sim time issues and needing sims for upgrades, “something” in the works with all of the hiring.

KCaviator
11-15-2018, 09:54 AM
According to rumors from another thread, apparently we (Republic) are getting at least 10 of the 25 birds that United ordered.

These were supposedly going to ExpressJet, but I think that “promise” was just a way to get them to sign their new TA. It never made sense to create a 175 program at an airline that has no experience flying them just for 25 frames.

If it is true, and we are getting at least 10, this would fit in very nicely with where our staffing level is today.

170driver
11-15-2018, 09:54 AM
According to rumors from another thread, apparently we (Republic) are getting at least 10 of the 25 birds that United ordered.



These were supposedly going to ExpressJet, but I think that “promise” was just a way to get them to sign their new TA. It never made sense to create a 175 program at an airline that has no experience flying them just for 25 frames.



We’re staffed to take all 25 at the current. Hate to see a carrot being taken away, pretty shady.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

4V14T0R
11-15-2018, 10:08 AM
According to rumors from another thread, apparently we (Republic) are getting at least 10 of the 25 birds that United ordered.



These were supposedly going to ExpressJet, but I think that “promise” was just a way to get them to sign their new TA. It never made sense to create a 175 program at an airline that has no experience flying them just for 25 frames.



If it is true, and we are getting at least 10, this would fit in very nicely with where our staffing level is today.



Prior to the 2015 contract we had 2300-2400 pilots and about 240 aircraft. We currently have that many pilots, including those in training, and only about 190 aircraft.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pilot2804
11-15-2018, 10:32 AM
No wonder why they’re stacking EWR so much with FOs????

Captain Slow
11-15-2018, 11:39 AM
I believe that contract was contingent upon them actually receiving those airframes. If they don’t, they go back into negotiations.

Could be wrong though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arliss
11-15-2018, 12:04 PM
XJet pilot here. Yes, that’s how it works. Our new contract says if 20 or more E175SCs don’t get formally announced by the end of this January, we return to section 6. I’m becoming more and more skeptical by the day. I basically am working with a one foot out the door mentality but want to exhaust my options with majors before lateraling.

4V14T0R
11-15-2018, 12:09 PM
XJet pilot here. Yes, that’s how it works. Our new contract says if 20 or more E175SCs don’t get formally announced by the end of this January, we return to section 6. I’m becoming more and more skeptical by the day. I basically am working with a one foot out the door mentality but want to exhaust my options with majors before lateraling.



Wasn’t there also something in there about a change of ownership or if Skywest is still the owner you guys go back to Section 6?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arliss
11-15-2018, 04:33 PM
Wasn’t there also something in there about a change of ownership or if Skywest is still the owner you guys go back to Section 6

Yes that’s also in there. It was redacted as its part of a NDA but supposedly is still in the official contract.

fortyeight
11-15-2018, 04:59 PM
According to rumors from another thread, apparently we (Republic) are getting at least 10 of the 25 birds that United ordered.

These were supposedly going to ExpressJet, but I think that “promise” was just a way to get them to sign their new TA. It never made sense to create a 175 program at an airline that has no experience flying them just for 25 frames.

If it is true, and we are getting at least 10, this would fit in very nicely with where our staffing level is today.

Awesome, now Columbus and Indy can take even more ORD flying while we watch the most commutable hub in the world whither away to nothing.

PontiusPilot
12-21-2018, 12:25 AM
According to rumors from another thread, apparently we (Republic) are getting at least 10 of the 25 birds that United ordered.

These were supposedly going to ExpressJet, but I think that “promise” was just a way to get them to sign their new TA. It never made sense to create a 175 program at an airline that has no experience flying them just for 25 frames.

If it is true, and we are getting at least 10, this would fit in very nicely with where our staffing level is today.

Nailed it.:rolleyes:

4V14T0R
12-21-2018, 12:34 AM
Nailed it.:rolleyes:



I’m sure everything you’ve said you’ve “nailed it”. [emoji849]

You guys get some good news (which is awesome) and idiots come out of the woodwork to gloat...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KCaviator
06-17-2019, 08:58 AM
United just ordered another 20 175s with options for 19 more. There is a 99.9% chance we are not going to operate these. Our “order” for 100 continues to be a marketing gimmick, as these frames have absolutely nowhere to go.

chrisreedrules
06-17-2019, 09:02 AM
United just ordered another 20 175s with options for 19 more. There is a 99.9% chance we are not going to operate these. Our “order” for 100 continues to be a marketing gimmick, as these frames have absolutely nowhere to go.
Fleet replacement?

Viking6
06-17-2019, 09:53 AM
Fleet replacement?

Most will be fleet replacement, but strong rumors of 25 or so as growth. No way you could get 100 E-jets for growth only, with SCOPE relief. Probably a good thing.

chrisreedrules
06-17-2019, 09:56 AM
Most will be fleet replacement, but strong rumors of 25 or so as growth. No way you could get 100 E-jets for growth only, with SCOPE relief. Probably a good thing.

What about all the rumors of the 170s being reconfigured for 65 seats and flown for AA out of DCA, LGA, and PHL? What ever came of that?

fortyeight
06-17-2019, 10:50 AM
United just ordered another 20 175s with options for 19 more. There is a 99.9% chance we are not going to operate these. Our “order” for 100 continues to be a marketing gimmick, as these frames have absolutely nowhere to go.

I’ll be shocked if these airplanes actually show up.

stabapch
06-17-2019, 11:43 AM
Most will be fleet replacement, but strong rumors of 25 or so as growth. No way you could get 100 E-jets for growth only, with SCOPE relief. Probably a good thing.

Training department has said 30 or so will definitely be for fleet replacement. The majority will be growth. Those airframes were set to be delivered second-half 2020 and that has never changed, which should correlate to something set to happen at that time. No official announcement yet but it’s 95 percent certain DL is saying bye bye to Compass and GoJet once their CPA expires in 2020. Maybe something is going on there? I also wouldn’t be surprised if its for something way out in left field

deftone
06-17-2019, 09:14 PM
What about all the rumors of the 170s being reconfigured for 65 seats and flown for AA out of DCA, LGA, and PHL? What ever came of that?

Met Joe Allman a few weeks ago and he claims this is basically a done deal....but he also claimed that they were in negotiations to buy out a 135 Cert, so who knows what the truth is.

Rahlifer
06-18-2019, 01:51 AM
Met Joe Allman a few weeks ago and he claims this is basically a done deal....but he also claimed that they were in negotiations to buy out a 135 Cert, so who knows what the truth is.

Maybe we’re planning on starting up a south Florida fly by night charter outfit. 😃😃

Viking6
06-18-2019, 03:14 AM
Maybe we’re planning on starting up a south Florida fly by night charter outfit. 😃😃

So it’s confirmed we’re growing the MIA base! Sounds like we will be getting a flow after all.

ninerdriver
06-18-2019, 05:20 AM
So it’s confirmed we’re growing the MIA base! Sounds like we will be getting a flow after all.

Sweet! To Vieques Air Link or Air Sunshine?

KCaviator
06-18-2019, 11:20 AM
What the **** would we do with a 135 certificate? Never heard that one before.

fortyeight
06-18-2019, 11:30 AM
What the **** would we do with a 135 certificate? Never heard that one before.

Bid for EAS routes under a scheduled part 135 certificate lol

KCaviator
06-18-2019, 11:39 AM
Bid for EAS routes under a scheduled part 135 certificate lol

Couldn’t we do that under the current 121?

Maybe it’s so LIFT could operate the future SkyCouriers for FedEx Feeder. 🥴

Random Task
06-18-2019, 12:14 PM
Brilliant. Remove 60 seats from the airplanes a la Great Lakes and fly around Part 135. Gib me dat gubmint cheese.

KCaviator
06-18-2019, 12:26 PM
Brilliant. Remove 60 seats from the airplanes a la Great Lakes and fly around Part 135. Gib me dat gubmint cheese.

Current training department rumor is 175s with 9 lie-flat business-style seats for the lucrative HRO-MEM and OLF-BIL routes.

814Pilot
06-18-2019, 01:24 PM
In ground school today our director of flight ops came in to talk. He said that the company has decided to spend the money to be able to upgrade the 40 older aircraft to the epic 27 load. So they aren’t replacing them, they are indeed using the 100 airframes for growth. That combined with the fact that they are planning to double the new hire classes to 70 per class says big things are happening.

170driver
06-18-2019, 01:26 PM
In ground school today our director of flight ops came in to talk. He said that the company has decided to spend the money to be able to upgrade the 40 older aircraft to the epic 27 load. So they aren’t replacing them, they are indeed using the 100 airframes for growth. That combined with the fact that they are planning to double the new hire classes to 70 per class says big things are happening.



We can’t even get the pilots we have hired through the pipeline. This is a pipe dream ala Bedford.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

814Pilot
06-18-2019, 01:31 PM
We can’t even get the pilots we have hired through the pipeline. This is a pipe dream ala Bedford.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Told us that the backlog is basically cleared up. Starting next month they won’t be sending people home for a month anymore. They also just bought a new simulator that is currently getting certified and are getting the EFPTs certified to be able to check some boxes that we normally would have to do in the sim. Also have more EFPTs coming as well. I think they’ll be just fine to do 70 per class

As Briefed
06-18-2019, 01:31 PM
In ground school today our director of flight ops came in to talk. He said that the company has decided to spend the money to be able to upgrade the 40 older aircraft to the epic 27 load. So they aren’t replacing them, they are indeed using the 100 airframes for growth. That combined with the fact that they are planning to double the new hire classes to 70 per class says big things are happening.

You better hope lol

stabapch
06-18-2019, 02:06 PM
Told us that the backlog is basically cleared up. Starting next month they won’t be sending people home for a month anymore. They also just bought a new simulator that is currently getting certified and are getting the EFPTs certified to be able to check some boxes that we normally would have to do in the sim. Also have more EFPTs coming as well. I think they’ll be just fine to do 70 per class

So you listened to the podcast too? Thanks for the non-info.

The training backlog is nowhere close to being cleared up. The current class waiting on OE is more than a month after completing sims. The class after them is just starting to complete sims. OE seems to be the next bottleneck

814Pilot
06-18-2019, 02:25 PM
So you listened to the podcast too? Thanks for the non-info.

The training backlog is nowhere close to being cleared up. The current class waiting on OE is more than a month after completing sims. The class after them is just starting to complete sims. OE seems to be the next bottleneck

I didn’t even listen to the podcasts... this is straight from the director of flight ops / director of training’s mouth. The classes in July aren’t going to have the delays that they have been experiencing

stabapch
06-18-2019, 02:31 PM
I didn’t even listen to the podcasts... this is straight from the director of flight ops / director of training’s mouth. The classes in July aren’t going to have the delays that they have been experiencing

Unless the company gets more CKA, I only see the delays getting worse. Sims may not be the problem anymore, but OE is backing up a lot.

Random Task
06-18-2019, 02:50 PM
The 5/29 class did 3 days of indoc and returns in early July.

The Director of Flight Ops came to my ground recurrent last month essentially saying "I dont know why they thought we could hire 100/mo when our training center has capacity for 50/mo."

So i dont know what changed in the last month but it doesn't seem like much.

MacrossJet
06-18-2019, 03:06 PM
United just ordered another 20 175s with options for 19 more. There is a 99.9% chance we are not going to operate these. Our “order” for 100 continues to be a marketing gimmick, as these frames have absolutely nowhere to go.

XJT bound?

SoFloFlyer
06-18-2019, 03:20 PM
So you listened to the podcast too? Thanks for the non-info.

The training backlog is nowhere close to being cleared up. The current class waiting on OE is more than a month after completing sims. The class after them is just starting to complete sims. OE seems to be the next bottleneck

Why doesn’t Republic get more LCA? Wouldn’t that solve OE issues?

amcnd
06-18-2019, 03:30 PM
Why doesn’t Republic get more LCA? Wouldn’t that solve OE issues?

The FAA is usually the choke point on that. And there is training involved.. class, sim, right seat ioe. Then checkride with the Feds... takes time and take another LCA to do the training...

Viking6
06-18-2019, 03:49 PM
Unless the company gets more CKA, I only see the delays getting worse. Sims may not be the problem anymore, but OE is backing up a lot.

They’re hiring more CKA and APDs. CKAs are flying insane hours this year. The plan is for less than 2 weeks wait, but obviously we run a very lean training department. The instructors are also working crazy hours. The long delay from last fall is definitely not planned in the near future.

Viking6
06-18-2019, 03:54 PM
The FAA is usually the choke point on that. And there is training involved.. class, sim, right seat ioe. Then checkride with the Feds... takes time and take another LCA to do the training...

Currently training more CKAs and APDs (soon). I think they say 1-2 months for LCA training, but a lot depends on the inspectors. Also it’s a lot of work. You can make a bunch of money, but work your butt off. That’s not for everyone.

KCaviator
06-18-2019, 04:27 PM
There’s no way in ****ing hell the 100 aircraft are purely for growth lol. I don’t care what anyone from management is trying to promote in a new hire class. Seriously, just think about it for a minute. Scope is completely maxed out and United’s order for an additional 20 (options for 39) pretty much takes care of the CRJ7 replacements. Maybe some additional aircraft for Delta and possibly American(?), but this isn’t going to equate to 100 frames. That leaves Alaska and Hawaiian left that need regional lift. I guess Alaska is plausible, but highly unlikely, since they don’t have a scope clause. Hawaiian doesn’t need more than Empire so that’s not happening. I’m not trying to be negative, but from a logical standpoint I don’t see any possibility where these 100 planes can be strictly for growth.

stabapch
06-18-2019, 04:36 PM
They’re hiring more CKA and APDs. CKAs are flying insane hours this year. The plan is for less than 2 weeks wait, but obviously we run a very lean training department. The instructors are also working crazy hours. The long delay from last fall is definitely not planned in the near future.

I would also guess by the time you meet the company mins to become a CKA, you’re competitive enough to move on?

fortyeight
06-18-2019, 05:27 PM
There’s no way in ****ing hell the 100 aircraft are purely for growth lol. I don’t care what anyone from management is trying to promote in a new hire class. Seriously, just think about it for a minute. Scope is completely maxed out and United’s order for an additional 20 (options for 39) pretty much takes care of the CRJ7 replacements. Maybe some additional aircraft for Delta and possibly American(?), but this isn’t going to equate to 100 frames. That leaves Alaska and Hawaiian left that need regional lift. I guess Alaska is plausible, but highly unlikely, since they don’t have a scope clause. Hawaiian doesn’t need more than Empire so that’s not happening. I’m not trying to be negative, but from a logical standpoint I don’t see any possibility where these 100 planes can be strictly for growth.

Management knows exactly what they need to say to keep those new hire classes full. That’s why we keep hearing these mythical “PHX and LAX” are coming rumors. It’s 100% kool-aid. We haven’t heard an ounce of credible evidence that these airplane are showing up, and what has it been? A year? Bedford just keeps spewing the “we have some news but we’re not quite ready to announce it” bullsh*t.

chrisreedrules
06-18-2019, 06:02 PM
I still believe the plan (at least at AA) is to reduce the number of regionals operating under the Eagle brand. The 3 WOs plus RAH and SKW seem to be the leading contenders for long-term stability on the AA side of things. So westward growth is still possible...

stabapch
06-18-2019, 06:14 PM
Management knows exactly what they need to say to keep those new hire classes full. That’s why we keep hearing these mythical “PHX and LAX” are coming rumors. It’s 100% kool-aid. We haven’t heard an ounce of credible evidence that these airplane are showing up, and what has it been? A year? Bedford just keeps spewing the “we have some news but we’re not quite ready to announce it” bullsh*t.

Second half of 2020.....second half of 2020. Read the press releases it’s always been this way and was never changed.. If we have nothing by then, then we can assume it’s bull****

4V14T0R
06-18-2019, 06:20 PM
Second half of 2020.....second half of 2020. Read the press releases it’s always been this way and was never changed.. If we have nothing by then, then we can assume it’s bull****



What happened to the 14-20 or whatever the number was that we were supposed to get in 2018 and this year? This number was given sometime in early/mid 2018. There has always been BS spewed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

KCaviator
06-18-2019, 07:02 PM
What happened to the 14-20 or whatever the number was that we were supposed to get in 2018 and this year? This number was given sometime in early/mid 2018. There has always been BS spewed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Don’t worry, I gotchu:

Bedford Letter on 02-10-2018:

“What about growth in 2018? We are focused on growing our fleet between 14 and 20 aircraft per year over the next couple of years, and we are aligning our staffing plans to be ready to take advantage of such growth opportunities. In 2018, we already have added one aircraft to our American CPA. Separately, we are in discussions to add two more Ejets in September under a long-term CPA amendment with a codeshare partner. Lastly, we are in active discussions with a codeshare partner to add an additional 12 to 15 aircraft, which would begin to arrive on property during the back half 2018.”

There’s at least 2 things in this paragraph alone that didn’t pan out. And that, newbies, is why there’s always skepticism at YX.

4V14T0R
06-18-2019, 07:08 PM
Don’t worry, I gotchu:



Bedford Letter on 02-10-2018:



“What about growth in 2018? We are focused on growing our fleet between 14 and 20 aircraft per year over the next couple of years, and we are aligning our staffing plans to be ready to take advantage of such growth opportunities. In 2018, we already have added one aircraft to our American CPA. Separately, we are in discussions to add two more Ejets in September under a long-term CPA amendment with a codeshare partner. Lastly, we are in active discussions with a codeshare partner to add an additional 12 to 15 aircraft, which would begin to arrive on property during the back half 2018.”



There’s at least 2 things in this paragraph alone that didn’t pan out. And that, newbies, is why there’s always skepticism at YX.



Glad my numbers/dates were accurate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tpinks
06-18-2019, 09:33 PM
There’s no way in ****ing hell the 100 aircraft are purely for growth lol. I don’t care what anyone from management is trying to promote in a new hire class. Seriously, just think about it for a minute. Scope is completely maxed out and United’s order for an additional 20 (options for 39) pretty much takes care of the CRJ7 replacements. Maybe some additional aircraft for Delta and possibly American(?), but this isn’t going to equate to 100 frames. That leaves Alaska and Hawaiian left that need regional lift. I guess Alaska is plausible, but highly unlikely, since they don’t have a scope clause. Hawaiian doesn’t need more than Empire so that’s not happening. I’m not trying to be negative, but from a logical standpoint I don’t see any possibility where these 100 planes can be strictly for growth.Scope is not completely maxed out. AA's scope is a ratio, not hard numbers like DL/UA. They are nearly maxed out on large regionals but they still have plenty of capacity for 65 seaters. IF the AA rumor pans out and all 65'ish E170's are moved to AA, that only leaves 30-35 E175's remaining.

If UA buys a new small narrow body, they will immediately be able to place another 80 some 76 seaters into service.

I think your taking growth and applying it to the industry rather than our company. As in our company can grow at the expense of another carrier with these planes. Not that I really want that to happen, but it is a possible outcome, one that I wouldn't put it past our management to do.

chrisreedrules
06-19-2019, 06:42 AM
I think it’s a good bet that United and perhaps even AA will eventually order small narrow-body aircraft. UA first most likely. Isom said at an AA townhall that AA looked at new Group 1 aircraft and were intrigued by the C-Series but that AA’s preference is for more A319s and A320s. Problem is finding 319s to buy...

OffAtTango
06-19-2019, 10:22 AM
American has just announced an order for 50 new Airbus A321XLR's. This will allow room for more 65+ seat jets.

170driver
06-19-2019, 10:30 AM
American has just announced an order for 50 new Airbus A321XLR's. This will allow room for more 65+ seat jets.



30 of them were conversions from 320NEOs, only 20 new orders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Viking6
06-19-2019, 11:21 AM
I would also guess by the time you meet the company mins to become a CKA, you’re competitive enough to move on?

I think this isn’t an issue right now, but it could be in the future. Probably about 8 years minimum to become a CKA. Instructors around 4-5 years.

KCaviator
06-19-2019, 02:13 PM
American has just announced an order for 50 new Airbus A321XLR's. This will allow room for more 65+ seat jets.

Which would likely head to Envoy if 175s.

fortyeight
06-19-2019, 04:22 PM
Which would likely head to Envoy if 175s.

I’m willing to bet they’ll go to whoever can staff them. But yea, if AA is buying them I’m sure they’ll go to Envoy. Unless BB knew there would be room in scope with the purchase of these XLRs and that’s where some of our “growth” is coming from.

Just testing out my new tinfoil hat.

Tpinks
06-19-2019, 04:46 PM
I think this isn’t an issue right now, but it could be in the future. Probably about 8 years minimum to become a CKA. Instructors around 4-5 years.

There’s actually 3 classes of CKA in the pipeline right now.

I know of one CKA who has only been at the company for maybe 5-6 years at the most. And he’s been a CKA for at least the last 6 months.

KCaviator
06-20-2019, 07:38 AM
I’m willing to bet they’ll go to whoever can staff them.But yea, if AA is buying them I’m sure they’ll go to Envoy. Unless BB knew there would be room in scope with the purchase of these XLRs and that’s where some of our “growth” is coming from.

Just testing out my new tinfoil hat.

Just like the new United 175s went to an airline that could staff them, right? XJT was cancelling multiple flights per day, and still is, while we have a surplus of pilots. 😏

They’re gonna go to whoever is the CHEAPEST. Which is not us.

Swakid8
06-20-2019, 07:51 AM
Just like the new United 175s went to an airline that could staff them, right? XJT was cancelling multiple flights per day, and still is, while we have a surplus of pilots. 😏

They’re gonna go to whoever is the CHEAPEST. Which is not us.

Your hate for ExpressJet is strong..... lol

KCaviator
06-20-2019, 08:08 AM
Your hate for ExpressJet is strong..... lol

Unreliable, bottom-feeder airline. What more can I say? 😁

fortyeight
06-20-2019, 09:13 AM
They’re gonna go to whoever is the CHEAPEST. Which is not us.

But but but our perfffooorrmaannceeee

The only thing the codeshare partners truly care about is money.

stabapch
06-20-2019, 09:30 AM
Unreliable, bottom-feeder airline. What more can I say? 😁

That sums it up. I’m still convinced UA will realize that was a mistake, due to the amount of cancelled flights and unhappy customers after this summer. XJT doesn’t have the aircraft for the flying they got OR the staffing to even operate their current fleet, let alone new aircraft. Cost savings for UA? Highly doubt it ends up that way

stabapch
06-20-2019, 09:34 AM
But but but our perfffooorrmaannceeee

The only thing the codeshare partners truly care about is money.

For the most part yes of course, that is the whole point of taking advantage of B-scale ops. However Delta still seems to like performance. Getting rid of compass and gojet proves this. Happy customers means more revenue and their profits reflect this. Unfortunately this is the exact reason why will never be taken out of the NE area

Rahlifer
06-20-2019, 05:17 PM
Unreliable, bottom-feeder airline. What more can I say? 😁

ExpressJet used to be THE premiere regional with the best contract and pay. Today’s darling will eventually be tomorrow’s Mesa. It’s a never ending cycle.

Meow1215
06-21-2019, 10:22 AM
ExpressJet used to be THE premiere regional with the best contract and pay. Today’s darling will eventually be tomorrow’s Mesa. It’s a never ending cycle.

Yeah... most people have a hard time understanding that lesson.

KCaviator
06-21-2019, 11:31 AM
Yeah... most people have a hard time understanding that lesson.

Just as people have a hard time understanding ExpressJet is no longer THE premier airline. They are now the bottom of the barrel.

Meow1215
06-22-2019, 01:00 PM
Just as people have a hard time understanding ExpressJet is no longer THE premier airline. They are now the bottom of the barrel.

I think most of those people work for XJT. But hey, anyone who thinks any regional is “THE premier airline” is an idiot to start with. It’s still a regional.

Rahlifer
06-24-2019, 07:15 AM
I think most of those people work for XJT. But hey, anyone who thinks any regional is “THE premier airline” is an idiot to start with. It’s still a regional.

Well no duh. Just pointing out the silliness of the chest thumping posts about whose regional is better. It’s a nonstop merry go round. Republic is getting ready to enter a minimum 5 year contract negotiation period and will quickly drop from the current top spot.

fortyeight
06-24-2019, 07:31 AM
Well no duh. Just pointing out the silliness of the chest thumping posts about whose regional is better. It’s a nonstop merry go round. Republic is getting ready to enter a minimum 5 year contract negotiation period and will quickly drop from the current top spot.

Republic isn’t at the top spot to begin with....

Rahlifer
06-24-2019, 08:51 AM
Republic isn’t at the top spot to begin with....

Top 5. Top 10. It’s hard to gauge accurately from reading all the pompous windbags that rank such things. I personally don’t really give a ****. 😃😃

KCaviator
06-24-2019, 09:04 AM
Well no duh. Just pointing out the silliness of the chest thumping posts about whose regional is better. It’s a nonstop merry go round. Republic is getting ready to enter a minimum 5 year contract negotiation period and will quickly drop from the current top spot.

I’m not trying to tout the company, but I can’t see us quickly dropping even if negotiations take 5 years. I think ALL regional CBAs have peaked for the foreseeable future.

Meow1215
06-24-2019, 05:57 PM
I’m not trying to tout the company, but I can’t see us quickly dropping even if negotiations take 5 years. I think ALL regional CBAs have peaked for the foreseeable future.

How about that pilot shortage?

chrisreedrules
06-24-2019, 09:18 PM
I’m not trying to tout the company, but I can’t see us quickly dropping even if negotiations take 5 years. I think ALL regional CBAs have peaked for the foreseeable future.

Maybe... I think the hiring by mainline hasn’t even really begun in earnest yet. And the current market trends don’t necessarily account for the LCCs to grow or say someone like Moxy coming along and needing to hire a bunch of pilots etc.

I think what we’ll really start to see is that each legacy carrier will begin to “tighten” the career path to their respective airline much like AA already has. If you want to work for AA you go to a WO. If you want to work for Delta you go to Endeavor. If you want to work for UA you go to CommutAir or ExpressJet and whoever else shakes out. Hiring outside of these programs for civilians will start slowing and eventually become a trickle compared to what it currently is. It’s one of the only real ways for the legacies to secure their relatively cheap regional feed long term.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Southwest announce some sort of preferential interview program as the retirements and hiring at the legacies kick into full swing over the next couple years.

As far as pay I don’t think we’ve quite reached the top just yet. But I think a lot of the improvements regionals will benefit from are going to be contractual and QOL improvements. At least at the “good” regionals anyway. Pay attracts people. QOL keeps them there.

Rahlifer
06-25-2019, 08:03 AM
Maybe... I think the hiring by mainline hasn’t even really begun in earnest yet. And the current market trends don’t necessarily account for the LCCs to grow or say someone like Moxy coming along and needing to hire a bunch of pilots etc.

I think what we’ll really start to see is that each legacy carrier will begin to “tighten” the career path to their respective airline much like AA already has. If you want to work for AA you go to a WO. If you want to work for Delta you go to Endeavor. If you want to work for UA you go to CommutAir or ExpressJet and whoever else shakes out. Hiring outside of these programs for civilians will start slowing and eventually become a trickle compared to what it currently is. It’s one of the only real ways for the legacies to secure their relatively cheap regional feed long term.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Southwest announce some sort of preferential interview program as the retirements and hiring at the legacies kick into full swing over the next couple years.

As far as pay I don’t think we’ve quite reached the top just yet. But I think a lot of the improvements regionals will benefit from are going to be contractual and QOL improvements. At least at the “good” regionals anyway. Pay attracts people. QOL keeps them there.

I think the last line is the conundrum for the management types. The regional model is still predicated on being the cheapest at all cost. Turnover is essential to keeping the costs low. Pay and bonuses will get the fresh meat in the door, but if the QOL is too good, you become top heavy with the expensive labor at the top of the pay scale. So from a management standpoint, you want to damage the QOL just enough to encourage the expensive widgets to leave or you’ll have to take steps to remove them which leads to a whole new can of worms.

chrisreedrules
06-25-2019, 10:00 AM
I think the last line is the conundrum for the management types. The regional model is still predicated on being the cheapest at all cost. Turnover is essential to keeping the costs low. Pay and bonuses will get the fresh meat in the door, but if the QOL is too good, you become top heavy with the expensive labor at the top of the pay scale. So from a management standpoint, you want to damage the QOL just enough to encourage the expensive widgets to leave or you’ll have to take steps to remove them which leads to a whole new can of worms.

Which is where flow programs and interview programs come in. And for now at least, the flavor of the week doesn’t seem to be who can do it the cheapest, but the most reliably.

fortyeight
06-25-2019, 04:00 PM
Which is where flow programs and interview programs come in. And for now at least, the flavor of the week doesn’t seem to be who can do it the cheapest, but the most reliably.

If that were the case Skywest wouldn’t be anywhere near LGA. It’s still who can do it the cheapest. Look at BB’s Memorial Day update for further proof.

KCaviator
06-25-2019, 04:22 PM
If that were the case Skywest wouldn’t be anywhere near LGA. It’s still who can do it the cheapest. Look at BB’s Memorial Day update for further proof.

Pretty sure this guy works for PSA, so he wouldn’t understand your reference. But yes, BB said the codeshare partners are saying we’re too expensive.

You’re definitely right, and chrisreedrules is definitely wrong, about reliability though. SkyWest wouldn’t be in LGA, ExpressJet wouldn’t of gotten new aircraft, and we’d be getting all of the new flying. All the majors (except maybe Delta) care about is who can do it the cheapest.

TJBrass
06-25-2019, 05:19 PM
Don't know if it's still the case, but there was a time when the Commuter's "On-time" numbers did not count toward the mainline DOT reported numbers. If that's still the case, why would they even care?

Its all about cheap.

chrisreedrules
06-25-2019, 06:05 PM
Pretty sure this guy works for PSA, so he wouldn’t understand your reference. But yes, BB said the codeshare partners are saying we’re too expensive.

You’re definitely right, and chrisreedrules is definitely wrong, about reliability though. SkyWest wouldn’t be in LGA, ExpressJet wouldn’t of gotten new aircraft, and we’d be getting all of the new flying. All the majors (except maybe Delta) care about is who can do it the cheapest.

Then why did AA put Mesa “on notice” for poor performance? Heard they offered to do the flying for cheaper and AA said no, they don’t care about that right now. They want the performance to improve above all.

KCaviator
06-25-2019, 06:42 PM
Then why did AA put Mesa “on notice” for poor performance? Heard they offered to do the flying for cheaper and AA said no, they don’t care about that right now. They want the performance to improve above all.

Let’s see AA put their money where their mouth is then.

dera
06-25-2019, 09:43 PM
Let’s see AA put their money where their mouth is then.

JO and DP are drinking buddies, Mesa has to mess up real bad for that relationship to end.

fortyeight
06-26-2019, 08:45 AM
JO and DP are drinking buddies, Mesa has to mess up real bad for that relationship to end.

Again, it’s all about money. If it was about performance and reliability Mesa wouldn’t be providing regional services. Skywest wouldn’t be in LGA. Expressjet wouldn’t have gotten 25 175’s. And GoJet wouldn’t be retrofitting and flying the 550 or whatever United is calling it.

It is and always be 100% about money with our codeshare partners. Nothing else. That’s why regionals exist in the first place. If they truly cared about performance they could just bring it in-house to have full control of their product.

As Briefed
06-26-2019, 08:54 AM
Again, it’s all about money. If it was about performance and reliability Mesa wouldn’t be providing regional services. Skywest wouldn’t be in LGA. Expressjet wouldn’t have gotten 25 175’s. And GoJet wouldn’t be retrofitting and flying the 550 or whatever United is calling it.

It is and always be 100% about money with our codeshare partners. Nothing else. That’s why regionals exist in the first place. If they truly cared about performance they could just bring it in-house to have full control of their product.

Why do you think ExpressJet is cheap?

Think of reasons why a relatively expensive airline with poor performance would get a contract.

It might not be all about money.

Swakid8
06-26-2019, 10:41 AM
Why do you think ExpressJet is cheap?

Think of reasons why a relatively expensive airline with poor performance would get a contract.

It might not be all about money.

I agree, ExpressJet has always been far from cheap. There is more to it than money.