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View Full Version : CommutAir or PSA?


BestOfficeEver
07-17-2018, 11:44 AM
Long time lurker, trying to decide between CommutAir and PSA. (Also posted this on the PSA threasd.)

As I see it:

Pros for C5:

Better initial bonus structure
CPP, understand not a flow
Smaller company, possibly more flexibility
One plane platform (E145) vs 200/700/900

Pros for PSA:

Flow, albeit 7 years+
More convenient domiciles (for me in the Midwest)
Better stability as a WO
Relatively quick upgrade, understand at 1000 hrs

I appreciate any insight, corrections or additional information.


jacburn
07-17-2018, 01:11 PM
Long time lurker, trying to decide between CommutAir and PSA. (Also posted this on the PSA threasd.)

As I see it:

Pros for C5:

Better initial bonus structure
CPP, understand not a flow
Smaller company, possibly more flexibility
One plane platform (E145) vs 200/700/900

Pros for PSA:

Flow, albeit 7 years+
More convenient domiciles (for me in the Midwest)
Better stability as a WO
Relatively quick upgrade, understand at 1000 hrs

I appreciate any insight, corrections or additional information.

Cpp is an interview opportunity. Currently moving our pilots from C5 to UA almost as soon as the 1000 hour PIC time is acquired. To acquire the 1000 PIC hours could be done in under 3 years.

Great group of Pilots with the small company feel. Kind of like a dysfunctional family at times that we all look out for each other most of the time. (this is not a negative statement against the company, because I love being know as a person and not a number).

Upgrade time is going to be running back to the "as soon as you have the hours" or given to those in indoc class if they have the hours in the next few months if I am reading the tea leaves correctly.

There is almost a non existent Reserve right now. Only a month or two at the max once you are done with IOE. Any FO's want to chime in and verify this?

CommutAir is 40% owned by UA. UA can only currently own less than 50% of any other airline due to their FA contract.

We are adding about a plane every 3 weeks.

BestOfficeEver
07-17-2018, 05:52 PM
Cpp is an interview opportunity. Currently moving our pilots from C5 to UA almost as soon as the 1000 hour PIC time is acquired. To acquire the 1000 PIC hours could be done in under 3 years.

Great group of Pilots with the small company feel. Kind of like a dysfunctional family at times that we all look out for each other most of the time. (this is not a negative statement against the company, because I love being know as a person and not a number).

Upgrade time is going to be running back to the "as soon as you have the hours" or given to those in indoc class if they have the hours in the next few months if I am reading the tea leaves correctly.

There is almost a non existent Reserve right now. Only a month or two at the max once you are done with IOE. Any FO's want to chime in and verify this?

CommutAir is 40% owned by UA. UA can only currently own less than 50% of any other airline due to their FA contract.

We are adding about a plane every 3 weeks.

Thank you for the additional insights! There is a great advantage to being recognized as a person and not a commodity.

Do you have any additional insight to the CPP? The language I've found states something to having a training record acceptable to UA. As someone that's had a few checkride mishaps in the past, it worries me that the past might be a disqualifier, even with a successful 121 record (and of course getting past the Hogan).


marshal
07-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Thank you for the additional insights! There is a great advantage to being recognized as a person and not a commodity.

Do you have any additional insight to the CPP? The language I've found states something to having a training record acceptable to UA. As someone that's had a few checkride mishaps in the past, it worries me that the past might be a disqualifier, even with a successful 121 record (and of course getting past the Hogan).

If you have success at CommutAir, I would not think past checkride failures would not be an issue, most people have some failures in their history. Upgrade time should drop to under a year pretty soon. In my class there were some who only did one month of reserve before getting a line in EWR. The CPP is not a true flow, but at half the time worth the risk in my opinion.

They do let you take the Hogan before Indoc so you know where you stand before you show up.

BestOfficeEver
07-18-2018, 07:12 AM
If you have success at CommutAir, I would not think past checkride failures would not be an issue, most people have some failures in their history. Upgrade time should drop to under a year pretty soon. In my class there were some who only did one month of reserve before getting a line in EWR. The CPP is not a true flow, but at half the time worth the risk in my opinion.

They do let you take the Hogan before Indoc so you know where you stand before you show up.

Thank you. When will the EFB's hit the lines, as I keep hearing different estimated times?

marshal
07-18-2018, 07:26 AM
Thank you. When will the EFB's hit the lines, as I keep hearing different estimated times?

The LOA has been signed. I have heard anywhere from 3-6 months. I have also heard Jeppsson has said they will stop paper charts by Dec. If that is true, there is a real deadline.

flying4401
07-18-2018, 01:29 PM
I've been looking at C5 as well. I would follow the growth and have heard good things about the UA CPP from a few colleagues who are there.

Noleone
07-18-2018, 02:53 PM
Whatís a realistic timeframe for a new hire FO to expect with the CPP from Commutair to United (assuming starting with zero 121 time)?

JediCheese
07-18-2018, 05:00 PM
What’s a realistic timeframe for a new hire FO to expect with the CPP from Commutair to United (assuming starting with zero 121 time)?
3-4 years if United is hiring and they work hard to build time.

Jecain7
07-18-2018, 06:13 PM
how are things overall at C5? many complaints? or just the avg regional?

jacburn
07-19-2018, 06:05 AM
how are things overall at C5? many complaints? or just the avg regional?
It is almost like every other regional. It all depends what you want/need out of it. For me, it fits very well except the commute.

There is a lot of movement off the top, and our upgrade time is dropping very quickly again. We are adding a plane about every 3 weeks so we also have growth. New hire class size has been growing as well.

joefly
07-30-2018, 07:17 AM
How many days off a month guaranteed?

PosRateGearUp
07-30-2018, 07:29 AM
How many days off a month guaranteed?

Reserve: 11
Line Holder: 12

JediCheese
07-30-2018, 05:10 PM
Line holder is 12 until crew scheduling starts extending you. They don't owe you days back per the contract :eek:

Macchi30
08-20-2018, 02:22 PM
How are the E145s? are CommutAirís older or more modern models?

JediCheese
08-20-2018, 03:15 PM
Don't know if any of our 145's would be considered modern but they are all the XR versions. Rumor is we'll be getting LRs eventually and have a differences training program approved, but thus far we have an XR only fleet.

standardrate
10-06-2018, 05:23 AM
From my understanding Commutair is an actual flow, no guaranteed interview crap. One interview with commutair, pass the hogan, get your time and wait in line. The interview with united has no technical.
Am I wrong?
Also, why does the hogan have a 40-50% failure rate first time? isn't it just a personality type test?

hslightnin
10-06-2018, 05:37 AM
From my understanding Commutair is an actual flow, no guaranteed interview crap. One interview with commutair, pass the hogan, get your time and wait in line. The interview with united has no technical.
Am I wrong?
Also, why does the hogan have a 40-50% failure rate first time? isn't it just a personality type test?

It is just a guaranteed interview. Otherwise why would you need to take the hogan and interview?

Freebreakfast11
10-06-2018, 06:31 PM
From my understanding Commutair is an actual flow, no guaranteed interview crap. One interview with commutair, pass the hogan, get your time and wait in line. The interview with united has no technical.
Am I wrong?
Also, why does the hogan have a 40-50% failure rate first time? isn't it just a personality type test?
It absolutely isn't a flow. It definitely is just a guaranteed interview. Interview with commutair, then go through training, pass IOE then you can take the hogan. Pass that then interview with United. Don't pass, stuck at commutair.

PosRateGearUp
10-07-2018, 03:48 AM
It absolutely isn't a flow. It definitely is just a guaranteed interview. Interview with commutair, then go through training, pass IOE then you can take the hogan. Pass that then interview with United. Don't pass, stuck at commutair.

Itís absolutely not a guaranteed interview. It definitely is just a guaranteed attempt to get an interview via the hogan test.

Freebreakfast11
10-07-2018, 04:04 AM
Itís absolutely not a guaranteed interview. It definitely is just a guaranteed attempt to get an interview via the hogan test.

Yep, that's a better way to describe it. Thanks

standardrate
10-07-2018, 04:28 AM
Itís absolutely not a guaranteed interview. It definitely is just a guaranteed attempt to get an interview via the hogan test.

wow, recruiters and higher ups in company seem to say differently.
Thanks for clarifying . You guys work there?

marshal
10-07-2018, 07:21 AM
wow, recruiters and higher ups in company seem to say differently.
Thanks for clarifying . You guys work there?

In fairness, if you ask UAL they would say the Hogan is part of the interview. It is in all in context and semantics.

If you do the CPP you automatically get to start the hiring process at UAL which the first step of is the Hogan. (For what it is worth, the rumor is pass rates have gone up quite a bit)

jacburn
10-07-2018, 04:02 PM
In fairness, if you ask UAL they would say the Hogan is part of the interview. It is in all in context and semantics.

If you do the CPP you automatically get to start the hiring process at UAL which the first step of is the Hogan. (For what it is worth, the rumor is pass rates have gone up quite a bit)
My understanding is the hogan also has points that go into the overall hiring decision as well.

turboprop87
10-07-2018, 06:07 PM
The CPP is certainly not a flow. However, there are many highly qualified pilots that would love the chance to take the Hogan and possibly interview with UAL.

It doesn't take much effort to get hired at C5. Therefore, it takes little effort to enter the UAL hiring process. That sounds like a good deal.

Sent from my ZTE A2017U using Tapatalk

Tankerds
10-07-2018, 10:23 PM
You say you live in the midwest, why is Envoy not on your list of potential regionals? From what I've heard, ORD is decently junior, and no matter where you are in the midwest, ORD is likely to have the largest frequency of commuting flights available. ORD is a great airport to fly out of, anyone who tells you differently hasn't flown in and out of there enough, or hasn't gone to other majors airports enough as that place has some of the best controllers around. I was never based there, but I always envied how organized they are as well as the sheer amount of aircraft they were able to bring in and out of the airport.My suggestion would be to take a look at Envoy... Their 22K (could be more now) on the first day of ground school is pretty killer too, helps keep you afloat and paying the bills while you want to shoot yourself for three months in ground school/sims.

Now as far as your question of PSA/CommutAir. It really isn't even close, the only reason it kind of seems that way is there are quite a few CommutAir pilots or loyalists that have commented on this thread. Im objective, I haven't worked for either, nor have any "taken" any of my prior airlines airplanes away.

I'm not going to make this lengthy, but CommutAir doesn't really stack up again PSA, they are different tiers. You would compare PSA to: Piedmont, Envoy, Skywest, Republic and Endeavor (Higher tier regional). You'd compare CommutAir to: Mesa, Gojet, Compass, TSA, Air Whisky and Expressjet (lower tier regionals).

For the record I worked for a "lower tier" regional, because I made my pick of regional based on factors I shouldn't have. It helps having a family member in the industry that also knows the current state of regional airlines.

So for the reason PSA trumps Commutair... Quality of Life, Base choice, Pay, Career Longevity (flow to American with guaranteed job, you can lose this "guarantee" by messing up while you're with your regional, but if you do your job correctly and don't get anything added to your file, you will have a guaranteed job with American as long as the economy doesn't tank again. If it does, you'll have your job with PSA back as you flow backwards. Job security!).

Good Luck, and do yourself a favor and look into Envoy and some of the other "High Tier" regionals I named that have commutable bases for you. CommutAir is not a good choice.



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