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SonicFlyer
07-18-2018, 07:51 AM
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2018/07/18/search-for-possible-fourth-victim-in-everglades-plane-crash/


Condor73
07-18-2018, 06:07 PM
Really sad to hear 4 lives were lost. :( , reminds me the accident in Arizona years ago. Such a tragedy

F4E Mx
07-20-2018, 04:36 AM
Apparently it was another day at the office for the flight school involved.


METO Guido
07-20-2018, 11:13 AM
It will happen again. The answer is TCAS.

Condor73
07-21-2018, 08:14 PM
Apparently it was another day at the office for the flight school involved.

I believe this time they are shutting them down

Condor73
07-21-2018, 08:14 PM
It will happen again. The answer is TCAS.

100 % agree

Skyjumper
07-23-2018, 08:25 PM
I believe this time they are shutting them down


They announced the closing of the school after the memorial that was held today.

TiredSoul
07-23-2018, 08:32 PM
Question is if heíll take the money and run or reimburse the 200-ish students.

https://www.local10.com/news/florida/miami-dade/flight-school-involved-in-everglades-crashes-shuts-down

kevbo
07-24-2018, 10:14 AM
Question is if heíll take the money and run or reimburse the 200-ish students.

https://www.local10.com/news/florida/miami-dade/flight-school-involved-in-everglades-crashes-shuts-down

LOL, that guy is going to Disney land!

rickair7777
07-24-2018, 11:20 AM
Question is if he’ll take the money and run or reimburse the 200-ish students.

https://www.local10.com/news/florida/miami-dade/flight-school-involved-in-everglades-crashes-shuts-down

I think FL flight school SOP is to immediately deposit any and all tuition in an offshore account, and then worry about operating expenses, payroll, etc later on.

But dollars to donuts these folks will re-incorporate under another name after the dust, lawsuits, and bankruptcies are settled.

Excargodog
07-24-2018, 12:40 PM
It will happen again. The answer is TCAS.

TCAS will HELP. It won't stop these things from happening.

METO Guido
07-24-2018, 01:46 PM
TCAS will HELP. It won't stop these things from happening.
TCAS has spared countless lives in positive control airspace. Imagine the benefit proximate traffic awareness software will deliver over practice & non-radar areas. Unless a trainer will be operated exclusively outside of ADS-B designated airspace, they'll need to comply with 91.225 by Jan 2020 regardless. No clue as to how either of the accident aircraft were equipped. Overwhelming grief for family and friends, lost jobs and plans for completing certificate or rating rides put on hold. Everyone loses in something like this. Needs attention beyond painful memories and a closed flight school.

rickair7777
07-24-2018, 02:31 PM
TCAS has spared countless lives in positive control airspace. Imagine the benefit proximate traffic awareness software will deliver over practice & non-radar areas. Unless a trainer will be operated exclusively outside of ADS-B designated airspace, they'll need to comply with 91.225 by Jan 2020 regardless. No clue as to how either of the accident aircraft were equipped. Overwhelming grief for family and friends, lost jobs and plans for completing certificate or rating rides put on hold. Everyone loses in something like this. Needs attention beyond painful memories and a closed flight school.

They need ADS-B Out only. It's likely that many in GA will not have the full benefit of ADS-B In available due to the high cost. There are portable work-arounds for ADS-B In (assuming you have ADS-B Out installed).

dera
07-24-2018, 08:32 PM
I think FL flight school SOP is to immediately deposit any and all tuition in an offshore account, and then worry about operating expenses, payroll, etc later on.

But dollars to donuts these folks will re-incorporate under another name after the dust, lawsuits, and bankruptcies are settled.

That's 100% what will happen.
"ask how I know".

100LL
07-27-2018, 06:04 AM
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Mother-of-Everglades-Plane-Crash-Victim-Files-Wrongful-Death-Lawsuit-Against-Flight-School-489299991.html

Look another money hungry lawsuit who didnít see that coming......before the NTSB properly concluded their investigation.

rickair7777
07-27-2018, 06:25 AM
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Mother-of-Everglades-Plane-Crash-Victim-Files-Wrongful-Death-Lawsuit-Against-Flight-School-489299991.html

Look another money hungry lawsuit who didnít see that coming......before the NTSB properly concluded their investigation.

Well, in this case at least one of the planes was at fault, and both were from the same school. If her son was a student pilot or under the hood, collision avoidance was really all on the instructor. So might not be unreasonable.

SkylaneRG
07-27-2018, 09:03 AM
They need ADS-B Out only. It's likely that many in GA will not have the full benefit of ADS-B In available due to the high cost. There are portable work-arounds for ADS-B In (assuming you have ADS-B Out installed).


Yep. And many people in the GA community are doing everything they can to avoid being ADSB compliant, even those that will be in the Mode C (or whatever they're calling it now) veil. They don't see the safety benefit. Without a doubt my favorite tool in my airplane is ADSB for traffic and weather, even though it is incomplete data. I also recently read a thread on another forum that a gentleman wanted to disable his transponder so no one could track him once he was ADSB compliant. Pilots are cheap, especially recreational pilots, and their perception of safety and the requirements to be safe are much different than ours are as professionals.

Excargodog
07-30-2018, 02:42 PM
Yep. And many people in the GA community are doing everything they can to avoid being ADSB compliant, even those that will be in the Mode C (or whatever they're calling it now) veil. They don't see the safety benefit. Without a doubt my favorite tool in my airplane is ADSB for traffic and weather, even though it is incomplete data. I also recently read a thread on another forum that a gentleman wanted to disable his transponder so no one could track him once he was ADSB compliant. Pilots are cheap, especially recreational pilots, and their perception of safety and the requirements to be safe are much different than ours are as professionals.


Actually, there are some fairly cheap ways to comply with this requirement (see Uavionix sky beacon and Garmin 82). To an extent, the FAA has fumbled the ball on this though. They have intentionally delayed STC certification of the cheap fixes to give the people who came out with the first far more expensive products (at FAA urging) to actually get return on their pioneering investments. But they allowed the home built/EAA crowd to use the cheaper non-certified versions because they knew that nobody was going to put the hugely expensive one on his home built RV-8.

Except that created a logical disconnect. If the non certified unit really ISN'T that good, and the certified units are sharing the same sky with them in a system DEPENDING on them being that good.....

And if the units ARE good enough, why do we have to pay four times the price for a certified one that works no better.....?
I think in the end much of the GA community will end up with something like a sky beacon or tail beacon for ADS-B out and something like a Garmin GDL-39 feeding an I pad running Foreflight or Garmin pilot for ADS-B in. And that will reliably do the job for $3K or so.

The sad fact is that STC'd GA avionics are really BEHIND the non-STCd stuff the experimental crowd gets to use, and have been for a decade and a half.

sailingfun
08-07-2018, 03:23 AM
Actually, there are some fairly cheap ways to comply with this requirement (see Uavionix sky beacon and Garmin 82). To an extent, the FAA has fumbled the ball on this though. They have intentionally delayed STC certification of the cheap fixes to give the people who came out with the first far more expensive products (at FAA urging) to actually get return on their pioneering investments. But they allowed the home built/EAA crowd to use the cheaper non-certified versions because they knew that nobody was going to put the hugely expensive one on his home built RV-8.

Except that created a logical disconnect. If the non certified unit really ISN'T that good, and the certified units are sharing the same sky with them in a system DEPENDING on them being that good.....

And if the units ARE good enough, why do we have to pay four times the price for a certified one that works no better.....?
I think in the end much of the GA community will end up with something like a sky beacon or tail beacon for ADS-B out and something like a Garmin GDL-39 feeding an I pad running Foreflight or Garmin pilot for ADS-B in. And that will reliably do the job for $3K or so.

The sad fact is that STC'd GA avionics are really BEHIND the non-STCd stuff the experimental crowd gets to use, and have been for a decade and a half.

I would check the price on that homebuilt RV8. They are worth a lot more than most 172ís. 120,000 is not unusual. Even a experimental requires a certified source to produce a position for the ADSB out to send. The position source is the expensive part of the outlay. Most RVís run a 430W or GTN650 to fill that function however cheaper options are available.



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