Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




jetlagging
07-20-2018, 12:12 PM
3800

I have heard it is a festive mood among Southern Air crews tonight in Hong Kong!

$9 an hour raise and $30K (average) signing bonus, (after taxes $20K?)


nitefr8dog
07-20-2018, 12:17 PM
3800

I have heard it is a festive mood among Southern Air crews tonight in Hong Kong!

$9 an hour raise and $30K (average) signing bonus, (after taxes $20K?)
I bet they are really living it up!

jetlagging
07-20-2018, 01:13 PM
I bet they are really living it up!

Every single column that doesn’t just say “effective date” means Southern Air pilots are not getting 100% of what Atlas has.


nitefr8dog
07-20-2018, 02:31 PM
Every single column that doesn’t just say “effective date” means Southern Air pilots are not getting 100% of what Atlas has.
They won't vote it in.....total screw job!

Globe Master
07-20-2018, 06:01 PM
Comments from those who have zero understanding.

Southern pilots will be evaluating the offer over the next few weeks.

Private Zero
07-20-2018, 06:16 PM
3800

I have heard it is a festive mood among Southern Air crews tonight in Hong Kong!

$9 an hour raise and $30K (average) signing bonus, (after taxes $20K?)

You don't know too much about it right?
Try 30$/hr increase on average.

jetlagging
07-21-2018, 01:51 AM
Comments from those who have zero understanding.

Southern pilots will be evaluating the offer over the next few weeks.

If my understanding is zero, it’s more than you! FWIW, I am a Southern Air pilot and you can shove your roadshows up your behind and if you think the teamsters can bribe me on behalf of Dietrich and Flynn for $20 large you are critically and ignorantly mistaken.

This TA is more worthless than the 737 LOA which should have also been sent back. Look at where that one got us. The only ones who benefit from this are Atlas management (2-3 more years till the next contract). Please tell Dietrich and Flynn to go type themselves they can go fly their own freight. Good luck filling classes idiots.

jetlagging
07-21-2018, 01:53 AM
You don't know too much about it right?
Try 30$/hr increase on average.

1st post. I wonder which teamsters or atlas mgmt troll is this? Hmmmmm

iPilot
07-21-2018, 04:15 AM
You don't know too much about it right?
Try 30$/hr increase on average.

Care to show your math? Based on the Atlas CBA under "new aircraft" pay rates are derived as percentage of MGTOW of the 747-400. All you have to do is compare the 747 rate right here on APC. According to the contract the pay would be:

777 - 91.97%

737 - 75.91%

For instance that would put a 2nd year 737 FO at $76/hr (Currently $65/hr)

10 year 777 CA: $185/hr (Currently $152/hr)

So yeah if you're a 10 year captain that's fantastic, I guess. For a new hire you'll make more money at a regional (for quite a while).

iPilot
07-21-2018, 04:19 AM
Oh and to add you'd have to work more now because instead of flying in on your first day and going home on the last day you gateway in on day zero and go home after your last day (don't forget the company can extend you 3 days automatically). That's guaranteed to give you at least 20+ days on the road.

This isn't the great deal Atlas is advertising. The fact that they offered southern 2 deals inside of a month I'd say the smart decision is to decline this offer and tell them you want an entirely new contract, not just Atlas' old contract with even more loopholes baked in.

dynap09
07-21-2018, 04:28 AM
3800
$9 an hour raise and $30K (average) signing bonus, (after taxes $20K?)

If it really only raises rates $9/hr it's not going to pass. Market is too strong right now for pilots.

Birdsmash
07-21-2018, 06:07 AM
This isn't the great deal Atlas is advertising. The fact that they offered southern 2 deals inside of a month I'd say the smart decision is to decline this offer and tell them you want an entirely new contract, not just Atlas' old contract with even more loopholes baked in.

The Southern pilots have been asking for parity since soon after we were bought. The purchase of Southern by AAWW delayed the Southern Section 6 negotiations that were already underway by the Southern pilots (and Atlas’s pilots also unfortunately). There is wording in our bankruptcy CBA that would have led to forced arbitration in November 2016. We would have had a new CBA by now if not for the purchase. It’s not worth speculating how crappy or good it would’ve been...not industry leading I’m sure.

All this LOA does is bring us into parity with our fellow Atlas pilots. The JCBA negotiations are ongoing. The Teamsters would not allow, nor would the majority of Southern pilots vote for anything exceeding the current Atlas CBA. We need to move forward together with our brothers and sisters at Atlas. Sure there are some that would jump at anything better offered. However, these are the same that would pimp out their own moms for an extra $1.

To now say to Atlas management “Hey, now that you are showing some interest we want even more” would be the same as if you were partway through buying a house and the seller said “Hey, now that you are showing some interest we want even more” . Both actions would result in a “Go F yourself”!

Lockheed
07-21-2018, 07:01 AM
The Southern pilots have been asking for parity since soon after we were bought. The purchase of Southern by AAWW delayed the Southern Section 6 negotiations that were already underway by the Southern pilots (and Atlas’s pilots also unfortunately). There is wording in our bankruptcy CBA that would have led to forced arbitration in November 2016. We would have had a new CBA by now if not for the purchase. It’s not worth speculating how crappy or good it would’ve been...not industry leading I’m sure.

All this LOA does is bring us into parity with our fellow Atlas pilots. The JCBA negotiations are ongoing. The Teamsters would not allow, nor would the majority of Southern pilots vote for anything exceeding the current Atlas CBA. We need to move forward together with our brothers and sisters at Atlas. Sure there are some that would jump at anything better offered. However, these are the same that would pimp out their own moms for an extra $1.

To now say to Atlas management “Hey, now that you are showing some interest we want even more” would be the same as if you were partway through buying a house and the seller said “Hey, now that you are showing some interest we want even more” . Both actions would result in a “Go F yourself”!

so your saying you will take the deal and give Purchase some breathing room - or am I misreading your post

Diesel8
07-21-2018, 07:11 AM
Birdsmash/Birdstrikes has always been more skewed to the management side of things.

To each their own.

This is all about discussion.

I don't care, if it passes or doesn't. It will be a sh*t sandwich either way.

Atlas Shrugged
07-21-2018, 07:17 AM
And just like that, any hopes of home basing at Atlas just went down the drain...

:mad:

Diesel8
07-21-2018, 08:25 AM
If your anticipating anything other than sodomy from Atlas management your expectations are too high.

Globe Master
07-21-2018, 07:01 PM
If my understanding is zero, it’s more than you! FWIW, I am a Southern Air pilot and you can shove your roadshows up your behind and if you think the teamsters can bribe me on behalf of Dietrich and Flynn for $20 large you are critically and ignorantly mistaken.

This TA is more worthless than the 737 LOA which should have also been sent back. Look at where that one got us. The only ones who benefit from this are Atlas management (2-3 more years till the next contract). Please tell Dietrich and Flynn to go type themselves they can go fly their own freight. Good luck filling classes idiots.

Did you get your questions answered at the Cordis?

maxjet
07-22-2018, 02:30 AM
Is there any wonder now why Kalitta Pilots left 1224? Another screw job. Why would a legitimate union allow a B scale for their supposedly union brothers. No Atlas profit sharing? I stopped reading after that. It sickens me to see another pilot group thrown under the bus by DW and his minions.

RyeMex
07-22-2018, 05:01 AM
Is there any wonder now why Kalitta Pilots left 1224? Another screw job. Why would a legitimate union allow a B scale for their supposedly union brothers. No Atlas profit sharing? I stopped reading after that. It sickens me to see another pilot group thrown under the bus by DW and his minions.

All due respect, maxjet, but you don't know what you're talking about.
The atlas crewmembers have been fighting since day 1 to bring our brothers and sisters at Southern up to the complete and total current Atlas CBA (as outdated as it is). It is management that has refused to do the right thing and has instead insisted that the folks at Southern be treated as second class employees.

Honestly, this seems to me to be exactly the opposite of why K4 was upset. If I recall correctly, you guys were mad because you didn't get to vote as soon as you wanted to (which, one can understand). Now the folks at Southern have an opportunity to exercise their vote on whether or not they think this LOA is in their best interest, and yet this is also somehow 1224's fault?

It is entirely up to the Southern crew force now whether or not they want to ratify this LOA, and the Atlas crew force supports whatever decision they may make.

Go look for excuses to be mad at DW somewhere else.

atpcliff
07-22-2018, 08:54 AM
Is there any wonder now why Kalitta Pilots left 1224? Another screw job. Why would a legitimate union allow a B scale for their supposedly union brothers. No Atlas profit sharing? I stopped reading after that. It sickens me to see another pilot group thrown under the bus by DW and his minions.

AAWWH is the parent company. They control everything.
Atlas Air pilots ONLY get Atlas Air profit sharing, NOT AAWWH. If the new Southern agreement was exactly the same as the Atlas Air contract, then Southern pilots would only get Southern Air profit sharing.

AAWWH can do whatever it wants, such as take the whole Atlas Air profit, and use it to buy aircraft, or move that money to Polar, etc. They can do the same with the Southern Air profit.

For Atlas Air (or Southern) pilots to get true Profit Sharing, we would need to get a share of the AAWWH profit. Atlas Air pilots do not have this now, and I'm assuming that Southern Air pilots will not get it, either.

I hope this clears up the reason that Southern Air pilots probably will not get Atlas Air profit sharing...but they may get Southern Air profit sharing...I don't know about that as I haven't read the proposed LOA.

Also, DW and 1224 asked for Southern Air pilots parity with Atlas Air pilots immediately upon finding out that AAWWH bought Southern. I don't believe that they threw any pilot group under the bus.

I hope that ALPA works great for Kalitta Air, and your pilot group gets what they want in the future.

God Bless, and Namaste...

FR8TRSH
07-22-2018, 11:00 AM
I hope the Southern pilots can see through this. Right now the company is desperate, why else make this offer? Hold the line and we can all have a real CBA inside of a year.

jetlagging
07-22-2018, 11:44 AM
I hope the Southern pilots can see through this. Right now the company is desperate, why else make this offer? Hold the line and we can all have a real CBA inside of a year.

3 pages of comments now and still nobody mentioned the gorilla in the room which is this... If Atlas can’t retain or recruit pilots at 100% of their CBA why would any Southern Air pilot vote yes on a TA for a mere 75 or 80% cash value of the current At-Less CBA?

Birdsmash
07-22-2018, 11:55 AM
3 pages of comments now and still nobody mentioned the gorilla in the room which is this... If Atlas can’t retain or recruit pilots at 100% of their CBA why would any Southern Air pilot vote yes on a TA for a mere 75 or 80% cash value of the current At-Less CBA?
How do you figure 75-80% of the Atlas CBA?

atpcliff
07-22-2018, 12:19 PM
3 pages of comments now and still nobody mentioned the gorilla in the room which is this... If Atlas can’t retain or recruit pilots at 100% of their CBA why would any Southern Air pilot vote yes on a TA for a mere 75 or 80% cash value of the current At-Less CBA?

The Southern TA is appox 100% of the Atlas TA. Southern won't be able to retain or recruit pilots with this LOA, just like Atlas isn't able to with their CBA.

WhipWhitaker
07-22-2018, 12:42 PM
The Southern TA is appox 100% of the Atlas TA. Southern won't be able to retain or recruit pilots with this LOA, just like Atlas isn't able to with their CBA.

Bingo.

Filler.

WingOffLight
07-22-2018, 01:30 PM
It will pass...

No one thought ATI would vote yes and they did.

More pilots are taking money now than waiting for later.

Birdsmash
07-22-2018, 01:41 PM
It will pass...

No one thought ATI would vote yes and they did.

More pilots are taking money now than waiting for later.
The Southern pilots are not voting on whether to accept a new CBA. We are voting on whether we want immediate relief from our horrible pay, work rules, etc while Atlas management drags on the negotiations for a new JCBA (Atlas/Southern pilots). The JCBA is the goal for both pilot groups.

We could say no but then how much longer do we suffer until a JCBA goes into effect? 1 year? 2 years?

jetlagging
07-22-2018, 02:02 PM
The Southern pilots are not voting on whether to accept a new CBA. We are voting on whether we want immediate relief from our horrible pay, work rules, etc while Atlas management drags on the negotiations for a new JCBA (Atlas/Southern pilots). The JCBA is the goal for both pilot groups.

We could say no but then how much longer do we suffer until a JCBA goes into effect? 1 year? 2 years?

So, Atlas, who has done nothing but lie and cheat at every chance they can, are going to suddenly honor their word?

Ok if you believe that, good luck. I agree with the other comment. They are desperate and too stupid to realize the horse has already left the barn.

nitefr8dog
07-22-2018, 03:01 PM
It will pass...

No one thought ATI would vote yes and they did.

More pilots are taking money now than waiting for later.
Who didn't think ATI would vote yes is a better question?

maxjet
07-22-2018, 04:16 PM
[QUOTE=RyeMex;2640265]All due respect, maxjet, but you don't know what you're talking about.
The atlas crewmembers have been fighting since day 1 to bring our brothers and sisters at Southern up to the complete and total current Atlas CBA (as outdated as it is). It is management that has refused to do the right thing and has instead insisted that the folks at Southern be treated as second class employees.

Honestly, this seems to me to be exactly the opposite of why K4 was upset. If I recall correctly, you guys were mad because you didn't get to vote as soon as you wanted to (which, one can understand). Now the folks at Southern have an opportunity to exercise their vote on whether or not they think this LOA is in their best interest, and yet this is also somehow 1224's fault?

It is entirely up to the Southern crew force now whether or not they want to ratify this LOA, and the Atlas crew force supports whatever decision they may make.

Go look for excuses to be mad at DW somewhere else.[/QUOTE

After rereading the agreement I see that you have valid points, and that I am wrong. I had errored in my interpretation that this was a done deal and not going to be voted on. I have friends at Atlas and Southern and wish you all the best.

RyeMex
07-22-2018, 04:41 PM
After rereading the agreement I see that you have valid points, and that I am wrong. I had errored in my interpretation that this was a done deal and not going to be voted on. I have friends at Atlas and Southern and wish you all the best.

Your support is much appreciated. I sincerely hope that everything is going well for y'all at K4. Alpa or IBT, it'll always be pilots vs. management.

red1330
07-22-2018, 06:19 PM
VOTE NO. The language in the LOA concerning the $7 million ratification incentive payment does not specify in precise terms how that money will be distributed. Until it does and you're happy with it, VOTE NO.

DC8DRIVER
07-22-2018, 06:43 PM
VOTE NO. The language in the LOA concerning the $7 million ratification incentive payment does not specify in precise terms how that money will be distributed. Until it does and you're happy with it, VOTE NO.

It might be best to not speak of things about which you appear to know nothing.

The basic terms are written in the document. The exact terms are to be decided by the union.

red1330
07-22-2018, 07:00 PM
It might be best to not speak of things about which you appear to know nothing.

The basic terms are written in the document. The exact terms are to be decided by the union.

And when will those exact terms be decided by the union? After the pilots vote in favor of the LOA? Or before? And why would anyone vote yes before having those exact terms?

742Dash
07-23-2018, 03:46 AM
And when will those exact terms be decided by the union? After the pilots vote in favor of the LOA? Or before? And why would anyone vote yes before having those exact terms?

Every signing bonus that I have received has had its terms determined by the union. A few lines of text in the agreement, a number and the details are left to the union.

I have no view on how the Southern pilots should vote -- it is their business, not mine. But this little bit of the puzzle is SOP in the industry.

red1330
07-23-2018, 04:44 AM
Every signing bonus that I have received has had its terms determined by the union. A few lines of text in the agreement, a number and the details are left to the union.

I have no view on how the Southern pilots should vote -- it is their business, not mine. But this little bit of the puzzle is SOP in the industry.

Regardless, until they explain exactly how that's going to be divided among the pilots it should be a NO vote.

Diesel8
07-23-2018, 09:17 AM
And when will those exact terms be decided by the union? After the pilots vote in favor of the LOA? Or before? And why would anyone vote yes before having those exact terms?

Terms determined by union could be assessment of the payout for dues or other revenue generation.

So, after taxes which would be at the worst rate (retro vs signing bonus) and assessments paid to the union, the benefit would be meager at best, certainly not worth the suffering.

If you Atlas guys think that management treats you like dirt, you should see what it is like on the Southern side. Far worse.

sandstorm
07-23-2018, 10:47 AM
From what I have heard, what is baffling is the way that this LOA came about. First of all, it sounds as if the Southern Exco / Negotiating Comm did not really confer with the Atlas Exco / Negotiating Comm. JC waited until BK was on a plane heading to Hawaii and called up the Southern Negotiating Chair and offered this deal over dinner. Long story short, Atlas (the company) was desperate to get this deal done and the Southern Negotiating Chair was ready to jump all over it. In fact, Southern Exco was ready to sit down and meet with the company without having any lawyers present. Also, from what I understand, the way the original proposal was written by the company, if it was signed it would have been considered a joint cba between the Atlas and Southern pilots and then the three remaining sections (scope, catering, one other?) would have gone to an arbitrator. We were very close to having this pos contract for who knows how long. If no one believes this, I suggest asking who you think you need to ask.

Every Atlas pilot feels that the Southern pilots deserve our full contract, but the company has been helped out of a huge jam when this loa gets voted in.

jetlagging
07-23-2018, 12:43 PM
From what I have heard, what is baffling is the way that this LOA came about. First of all, it sounds as if the Southern Exco / Negotiating Comm did not really confer with the Atlas Exco / Negotiating Comm. JC waited until BK was on a plane heading to Hawaii and called up the Southern Negotiating Chair and offered this deal over dinner. Long story short, Atlas (the company) was desperate to get this deal done and the Southern Negotiating Chair was ready to jump all over it. In fact, Southern Exco was ready to sit down and meet with the company without having any lawyers present. Also, from what I understand, the way the original proposal was written by the company, if it was signed it would have been considered a joint cba between the Atlas and Southern pilots and then the three remaining sections (scope, catering, one other?) would have gone to an arbitrator. We were very close to having this pos contract for who knows how long. If no one believes this, I suggest asking who you think you need to ask.

Every Atlas pilot feels that the Southern pilots deserve our full contract, but the company has been helped out of a huge jam when this loa gets voted in.

I have heard the same things. :mad:

WhipWhitaker
07-23-2018, 12:56 PM
Wasn't all that ^ addressed (debunked) by the people specifically involved on the pseudo union Facebook page?

Birdsmash
07-23-2018, 08:17 PM
The Southern NC tries to work hand-in-hand with the Atlas NC. In the end it doesn’t really matter how the LOA got to the end result because we are a separate airline as long as it doesn’t damage the other group.

Does BK support the Southern pilots voting YES on the LOA? DW (1224 President and Atlas Captain) along with the 1224 lawyer wholeheartedly supported/recommended us voting yes during the webinar yesterday.

DC8DRIVER
07-23-2018, 09:13 PM
Does BK support the Southern pilots voting YES on the LOA?
.

Doesn't really matter what BK thinks of the deal. It is Southern pilots who decide this one.

Stratocruzr
07-23-2018, 09:30 PM
they deserve 100% parity. Anything less should be a vote NO.

jetlagging
07-25-2018, 02:42 PM
Southern pilots been crapped on for so long. I wish this airline the best but just don’t believe any of the hype from the teamster roadshows. I really don’t see any good for anyone in this except for Dietrich, Flynn and Bezos.

$20K take home “bonus” is a slap in the face. The average Atlas 747 captain can make $20K in OT in 2 months. (And they still quit) Meanwhile no relief for 737 pilots, they may as well consider themselves seatlocked for another 3-5 years.

And just when we all thought Atlas would poach from the 737 pilots to staff the 777s but it may be about to go the other way. Wait, what?

Yes, no secret DHL has seen the handwriting on the wall for past year now with “Amazon Prime Air” and their 14 new 777s to go somewhere other than Atlas. Probably Aerologic.

I have seen enough. They can Pass or Reject this TA and it doesn’t matter to me anymore. I’m not going to be the last one here. They have my resignation. These people are liars.

Gonna miss Southern Air but this whole thing is a goat rope.

HeliHooker
08-09-2018, 02:20 PM
Any new info on Southern Air? I have been invited to an interview for the 737. Currently a new regional FO. Wondering if this would be a good opportunity to persue.

atpcliff
08-09-2018, 03:39 PM
Any new info on Southern Air? I have been invited to an interview for the 737. Currently a new regional FO. Wondering if this would be a good opportunity to persue.

737 pay is the lowest in the Atlas/Southern system. If you can get the 777 it is a lot more pay, and you don't have to worry about commuting, starting Day One.

RyeMex
08-09-2018, 03:52 PM
Any new info on Southern Air? I have been invited to an interview for the 737. Currently a new regional FO. Wondering if this would be a good opportunity to persue.

Just curious: why exactly do you think that it would be worth pursuing?

HeliHooker
08-09-2018, 03:54 PM
737 pay is the lowest in the Atlas/Southern system. If you can get the 777 it is a lot more pay, and you don't have to worry about commuting, starting Day One.

Yeah they say due to my experience level that the 737 would be more appropriate. Any word on an LOA being signed increasing pay rates for Southern pilots? Would the 737 be a lateral move in your opinion?

akfrtdwg 57
08-09-2018, 03:59 PM
Yeah they say due to my experience level that the 737 would be more appropriate. Any word on an LOA being signed increasing pay rates for Southern pilots? Would the 737 be a lateral move in your opinion?

Pretty sure with work rules and bonuses being an FO is still more lucrative than going to be an FO at Southern on the 73. Think of it this way. You just got hired at a Regional. Made it thru their training pay and you want to go back into training? Up to 4 months at $1600 + per diem. Is the 73 type rating really worth that for you?

HeliHooker
08-09-2018, 04:06 PM
Pretty sure with work rules and bonuses being an FO is still more lucrative than going to be an FO at Southern on the 73. Think of it this way. You just got hired at a Regional. Made it thru their training pay and you want to go back into training? Up to 4 months at $1600 + per diem. Is the 73 type rating really worth that for you?

Definitely makes sense...thanks for the insight!

jungle driver
08-09-2018, 04:29 PM
So it looks like according to the APC page the LOA went though and you guys are on the same contract rules as Atlas guys. With pay and work rules the same, if you had the choice would it be better to go on the 777 at southern or 747 at Atlas?

RyeMex
08-09-2018, 04:43 PM
So it looks like according to the APC page the LOA went though and you guys are on the same contract rules as Atlas guys. With pay and work rules the same, if you had the choice would it be better to go on the 777 at southern or 747 at Atlas?

The LOA was ratified today by Southern pilot group. To be clear, it is not a carbon copy of the (outdated) Atlas CBA. Close enough in most areas, though.

Importantly, however, my understanding is that while the LOA goes into effect on Sept. 1st, most of the QOL issues will not be implemented for another 9 months. So, if you were to accept a job at Southern now, you would still be bound by their horrendous work rules until the middle of 2019.

thesandbox
08-09-2018, 05:46 PM
On the 73 even now you will not get a pay bump until year 4. The 73 pays only 74% of 747 pay rates so for the first 3 years you will be making 1st year pay.

jetlagging
08-10-2018, 09:26 AM
On the 73 even now you will not get a pay bump until year 4. The 73 pays only 74% of 747 pay rates so for the first 3 years you will be making 1st year pay.

Southern Air keeps losing Captains even with the “at-less not exactly parity” TA. Guys not even waiting for the “signing bonus” as there is just way better money on the table at just about any other airline.

Seems like the kook aid is strong at Southern Air as it passed with 94% but this is almost definitely a clear case of Stockholm syndrome and corporate gas lighting of an abused employee group.

This will make an excellent dissertation for someone working on their psychology PhD.

If you really want to fly cargo, Kalitta is the best place to go right now. They are growing and paying the most except for UPS and Fedex. The Kalitta pilots are happy. That says it all.

Birdsmash
08-10-2018, 10:01 AM
95% of the pilots realize that this is only temporary relief while a JCBA is negotiated or forced upon both groups by an arbitrator. The LOA does not replace the current amendable Southern CBA. It only modifies it.

No. I don’t think this will stop the attrition or lack of applicants. Atlas/Southern can’t currently compete with companies that offer better CBA’s.

maxjet
08-14-2018, 05:36 AM
95% of the pilots realize that this is only temporary relief while a JCBA is negotiated or forced upon both groups by an arbitrator. The LOA does not replace the current amendable Southern CBA. It only modifies it.

No. I don’t think this will stop the attrition or lack of applicants. Atlas/Southern can’t currently compete with companies that offer better CBA’s.

I read over and over that AAWW cannot staff it’s fleets. Yet, I don’t see any financial repercussions happening there. Stock is still recommended a buy, and although down recently, is still up for the year. I would think that if this hiring was a true problem, that 1224 would be putting out info to the analysts effecting the stock price.

Maybe things are not as bad there as some pilots would have you believe? Maybe the company is masterful in pulling the wool over everybody’s eyes? Maybe they do not have an effective union?
Sooner this is addressed the sooner there will be action I think.

FR8Dog7
08-14-2018, 08:10 AM
Maybe they do not have an effective union?


You think?

zerozero
08-14-2018, 09:34 AM
I read over and over that AAWW cannot staff it’s fleets. Yet, I don’t see any financial repercussions happening there. Stock is still recommended a buy, and although down recently, is still up for the year. I would think that if this hiring was a true problem, that 1224 would be putting out info to the analysts effecting the stock price.

Maybe things are not as bad there as some pilots would have you believe? Maybe the company is masterful in pulling the wool over everybody’s eyes? Maybe they do not have an effective union?
Sooner this is addressed the sooner there will be action I think.

Well, you can simply look at the FACTS, or openly speculate with your not-so-discrete agenda.

The fact is, Atlas has been outsourcing flights to Kalitta, Omni and Miami Air.

Atlas is in FACT an OUTSOURCE provider. If the outsourcers are outsourcing, well, there's your answer!

plift
08-14-2018, 12:10 PM
Maybe they do not have an effective union?


Yeah, maybe they should switch so they can get an awesome contract like ATI, lol.

Lockheed
08-14-2018, 06:50 PM
Yeah, maybe they should switch so they can get an awesome contract like ATI, lol.

ya thats funny....we all know teamsters is where its at...

plift
08-14-2018, 07:31 PM
ya thats funny....we all know teamsters is where its at...

No, any union is only as strong as the pilot group, doesn't matter who the national is. Teamsters is not "where its at" and neither is ALPA. The funny thing is pilots thinking changing unions is going to magically change anything.

Lockheed
08-15-2018, 04:30 AM
No, any union is only as strong as the pilot group, doesn't matter who the national is. Teamsters is not "where its at" and neither is ALPA. The funny thing is pilots thinking changing unions is going to magically change anything.

I certainly agree with you on the first point - and its the most important because its true

just a little tired of the alpa bashing - sometimes it does make difference though - it has for us at k4 - night and day - that different - welcomed and treated like rock stars from day one - from the alpa president to every legacy MEC chairman on down - I can tell you that is very different

Birdsmash
08-15-2018, 04:37 AM
Whoop! Whoop! Thread drift! Thread drift!

The LOA was voted in and begins implementation Sept 1. Time to move on.

Lockheed
08-15-2018, 04:44 AM
Whoop! Whoop! Thread drift! Thread drift!

thanks -
that was pretty darn clever and funny to boot!!

ATACCIATI
08-15-2018, 06:36 PM
Yeah, maybe they should switch so they can get an awesome contract like ATI, lol.

Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.

gumpscheck
08-15-2018, 09:07 PM
Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.

What??? You should quit smoking that stuff. If I was you, I would be worried on the next drug test.

atpcliff
08-15-2018, 10:38 PM
Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.

Looking quickly at APC.com:
Kalitta's contract is better.
Omni's contract is better.
Western Global's contract may be better.
From what I read, ABX turned down the payrates that ATI has now.

Spirit, Allegiant, JetBlue, Alaska and Hawaiian have better contracts.
Many of the regionals have soft pay and work rules that are better than ATI's.

And of course, DAL/AA/UAL/UPS/FedEx/SWA have better contracts than ATI.

Twin Wasp
08-17-2018, 07:43 AM
Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.


Going from 1 dollar to 2 dollars is a hundred percent raise. You can do wonders with statistics.
.

Birdsmash
08-17-2018, 08:18 AM
There are plenty of other threads with ABX vs ATI. There is no need to keep this one going with a dispute that doesn’t involve Southern or Atlas.

nitefr8dog
08-17-2018, 08:21 AM
There are plenty of other threads with ABX vs ATI. There is no need to keep this one going with a dispute that doesn’t involve Southern or Atlas.
Except it's pretty humorous

GIANT PILOT
08-17-2018, 05:07 PM
Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.

Where can one see this contract for comparison?

5Ypilot
08-24-2018, 08:32 AM
Say what you want about out contract but the fact is no one has topped it yet. According to Alpa it was the largest raise in thier history. This is a great airline.

I think I just threw up a little bit.

CA Deplorable
08-24-2018, 11:22 AM
Hmmm so much could be said about that statement but I have a dont feed the troll policy.

midnightshuttle
08-25-2018, 04:56 AM
Thats an HR rep, give her a break. She is just doing as told. JV spanks the monkey to this site and added damage control to someones job description. Someone spilled the beans about it while back at Bw’s.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1