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View Full Version : Make 2k month. Now food Stamps.


sheriff5113
07-21-2018, 12:06 AM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. Iím almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless youíre super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said weíre treated like family; said weíre best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, Iím just reserve number! Donít ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!


amcnd
07-21-2018, 06:07 AM
1.) You wouldnít have lasted starting here in the mid 90ís. 2.) normal to bring in a program guide for berivment days. 3.) call in sick as much as you want no threats there. Just be able to show proff if you lieing and at the beach they will know 4.)regionals are a steppingstone. You get to complain how bad it was when you get to the majors.

What you said sounds like every Delta pilots complaints that started in the 90ís....

You must be on the ERJ..

bnkangle
07-21-2018, 06:19 AM
Aww cheer up, fella. Things will get better for ya. Remember, you work for the best and you and your co-workers are among the top professionals in this industry. You really should feel honored and humbled to work for such an esteemed and world class company.

I have a quick, unrelated questioned. The name tags you all wear on your left pocket; do those need to be polished periodically or do they have some kind of lacquer finish to keep them from oxidizing?

Hang in there, tiger.;)


SilentLurker
07-21-2018, 11:21 AM
1.) You wouldnít have lasted starting here in the mid 90ís. 2.) normal to bring in a program guide for berivment days. 3.) call in sick as much as you want no threats there. Just be able to show proff if you lieing and at the beach they will know 4.)regionals are a steppingstone. You get to complain how bad it was when you get to the majors.



What you said sounds like every Delta pilots complaints that started in the 90ís....



You must be on the ERJ..



Hi... I tried to hold my tong but

#1... A tools response.
#4... A tools response.


This is not the 1990s. This is not 2000ís... this is not 2007, this is not 2014...

Reason u moved up in seniority is because of the prospect of increased pay and QOL in the regionals, many would not have entered! Congrats you did, many of us were not that thirsty for such a low wage! Excuses of the past does not justify using the same excuses in the future! Bravo to those who fought that I may have an opportunity today (Comair, XJT, Eagle, Piedmont, Republic, CommutAir, Pinnacleó>Endeavor, Air Wisconsin, Horizon! ).

I could have entered this industry 2005, 2006, 2007, and many times beyond. Pay & QOL sucked! Not worth it! Iím here now achieving my goals and dreams, thanks to an increased industry pay rate that values my contribution.

The OP is correct. Many at SKYWEST are tools and the industry is paying attention.

Many good folks at Skywest too! Obviously, not everyone is rotten! But the rotten spoils it for the batch! The Batch is the industry, and the rotten (non-union) regional thatís growing very fast is SKYWEST.

The whole industry is watching and talking behind yíalls backs! Trust me! I hear it! Itís very true what some have said.

Have a great day.

Check Complete
07-21-2018, 11:31 AM
Don’t believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. I’m almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless you’re super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said we’re treated like family; said we’re best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, I’m just reserve number! Don’t ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!

First of all, SkyWest is your new family and management kinda thinks of you as a sister wife. It is a Utah company after all, your turn is Wednesday night (wink wink).

Pay is the best, no need to look at any of the other regionals. Trust us.

Bend over to help in an emergency? Dude you were hired into a cult. You don't matter, nor does anybody in your family.

SAPA? Totally useless. Why? Paid for by management to do what they say. 2 week off suspensions are happening for back talking CS. A 16 year CA fired a few weeks ago for a slow speed event, filed an ASAP, won his review board, still fired. Heard another on is happening this week.

You would be miles ahead money wise lateraling to one of the good regionals. This place is going to get far worse before it gets better.

FedUpPayMe
07-21-2018, 11:35 AM
@OP

Time for you to move onto another regional that thinks highly of your presence, that regards you right. Envoy and Endeavor are both hiring and they both pay more than SkyWest and offer more solid career paths to the legacies. Even GoJet has the hookup for Spirit and Atlas and they offer $15,000 just to sign up.

SilentLurker
07-21-2018, 11:38 AM
@OP

Time for you to move onto another regional that thinks highly of your presence, that regards you right. Envoy and Endeavor are both hiring and they both pay more than SkyWest and offer more solid career paths to the legacies. Even GoJet has the hookup for Spirit and Atlas and they offer $15,000 just to sign up.



Maybe instead of bailing, he should try to help make a change first! You know, like Michael Jackson ďMan In The Mirror.Ē

So before he bails, he could feel better about his decision and say ďhey I tried. I didnít just bail for selfish reason like many have made at SKYWEST which got us in this mess. I stuck it out & tried to stand up for my fellow pilots to organize. The rotten bastards didnít listen & theyíll get what the market thinks they deserve.Ē

LRSRanger
07-21-2018, 11:57 AM
Why do people still go to SKW? When looking at regionals it didn't take me long to cross them off my list.

amcnd
07-21-2018, 12:31 PM
Why do people still go to SKW? When looking at regionals it didn't take me long to cross them off my list.

Well 70-100 people a month still do...???...???...

LRSRanger
07-21-2018, 01:15 PM
Well 70-100 people a month still do...???...???...

Puzzling isn't it. I'm sure they have their reasons, but from all the research and reading I've done there seems to be a lot of better options. To each their own I suppose.

Utah
07-21-2018, 01:36 PM
I hear we are hiring other airlines training failures now..

LRSRanger
07-21-2018, 02:03 PM
I hear we are hiring other airlines training failures now..

The new Mesa?

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-21-2018, 02:36 PM
The new Mesa?

If so that is irony at its finest. When I was in the schoolhouse the instructors always poked fun at Mesa and other regionals as if SkyWest was on a higher level. I didnít agree with it at all, but that is the culture they start. Kind of conceited if you ask me

SirLurksalot
07-21-2018, 02:39 PM
Well 70-100 people a month still do...???...???...

I think he asked why, not how many. i understand theres not a good reason why, but you dont just need to have a response to everything

rickair7777
07-21-2018, 02:50 PM
SAPA? Totally useless. Why? Paid for by management to do what they say. 2 week off suspensions are happening for back talking CS. A 16 year CA fired a few weeks ago for a slow speed event, filed an ASAP, won his review board, still fired. Heard another on is happening this week.

Yeah, don't get slow at altitude. The FAA is 100% over that, countless memos have been issued over the years, pretty much zero tolerance and the company does not have a choice or the FAA will seriously limit their operations of the CRJ (they did that once already).

ASAP will NOT help for the typical low-speed event, where the speed bleeds off slowly over time, because the FAA considers not looking at the AS tape for many minutes to be intentional gross negligence.

Check Complete
07-21-2018, 04:13 PM
Yeah, don't get slow at altitude. The FAA is 100% over that, countless memos have been issued over the years, pretty much zero tolerance and the company does not have a choice or the FAA will seriously limit their operations of the CRJ (they did that once already).

ASAP will NOT help for the typical low-speed event, where the speed bleeds off slowly over time, because the FAA considers not looking at the AS tape for many minutes to be intentional gross negligence.

I think it just comes down to that they are not the incredible pilot that you are.

Must be awesome to be, well, awesome!

bradthepilot
07-21-2018, 04:56 PM
I think it just comes down to that they are not the incredible pilot that you are.

Must be awesome to be, well, awesome!

This is a curious response. Is it acceptable at other carriers to have a slow speed event with no repercussions?

Check Complete
07-21-2018, 05:06 PM
This is a curious response. Is it acceptable at other carriers to have a slow speed event with no repercussions?

I think that not having any legal representation, and really, no true representation that management can do what ever they want and then turn to the FAA and tell them that terrible pilot was fired.

In talking to friends at SWA, UA, and DL said that termination would not happen. My UA buddy said that if their management tried something like that they would have a massive legal s storm that would blow their brains out. Being that they have real lawyers at their disposal.

That's what 2% a check gets you.

ninerdriver
07-21-2018, 05:15 PM
This is a curious response. Is it acceptable at other carriers to have a slow speed event with no repercussions?

We get an anecdote about an in-house low speed event at altitude at 9E during ground school. The pilots allegedly received additional training and were re-released to the line.

rickair7777
07-21-2018, 06:16 PM
This is a curious response. Is it acceptable at other carriers to have a slow speed event with no repercussions?

I think that not having any legal representation, and really, no true representation that management can do what ever they want and then turn to the FAA and tell them that terrible pilot was fired.

In talking to friends at SWA, UA, and DL said that termination would not happen. My UA buddy said that if their management tried something like that they would have a massive legal s storm that would blow their brains out. Being that they have real lawyers at their disposal.

That's what 2% a check gets you.

We get an anecdote about an in-house low speed event at altitude at 9E during ground school. The pilots allegedly received additional training and were re-released to the line.

SKW had many high alt low-speed events over the years, most due to flying on the back side with no A/Th, some due to mountain waves and inattention. In the old days, it was CA's padding block, then the company started using CI which instructed the pilots to fly on or near the back side in many cases. After that it got s bad that the FAA put some serious operating limitations on the CRJ, and the CI went away. Eventually the limitations were eased but not removed entirely (still no CI last I heard).

Due the their size, SKW had more incidents than other regionals, and the way they used CI didn't help. The FAA was seriously over it, and formally notified all concerned that they would not allow ASAPs for that any more (they are on the ERC, and are party to the ASAP MOU).

Many folks got away with it for a long time, warnings were issued and they eventually started firing people. I observed two "waves" of such events... education and discipline ended the first wave, and then CI brought it back.

If you really must fly slow in a CRJ, you should stare at the PFD the whole time.

rickair7777
07-21-2018, 06:22 PM
I think it just comes down to that they are not the incredible pilot that you are.

Must be awesome to be, well, awesome!

I'm awesome because I have A/TH :D When I flew the CRJ, I ultimately learned (from other's mistakes, which were well publicized) to fly fast, well on the front side.

I was laying out the history not judging really.

There was one a couple years ago where a 700 literally fell out of the sky through a loaded holding stack... that could have put the company out of business.

But here's judgement for you: After YEARS of problems, training, education, memos, near catastrophy, and threats from the FAA I can understand why they are firing people. They have literally begged, pleaded, warned, and threatened for YEARS.

Skyhawk121
07-21-2018, 09:30 PM
What blows my mind is being on reserve for 14 months. I didnít think they had that long of a wait even on the ERJ side. Did the OP slip into a super senior domicile somehow? Should have gone CRJ if you want to fly, I would have to check to be sure, but I think I was off reserve the second or third month after IOE.

atpcliff
07-22-2018, 09:02 AM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. Iím almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless youíre super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said weíre treated like family; said weíre best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, Iím just reserve number! Donít ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!

You choose to go to a regional with a sub-par contract, and no union. Because of the Pilot Shortage, there are a LOT of other places to fly that are a lot better than SkyWest, for most pilots.
SkyWest will, though, be forced to come up with a much better contract, because SkyWest won't be able to crew all the aircraft they have planned. The Pilot Shortage is only getting worse.

hawk21
07-22-2018, 10:07 AM
Youíre not going to get much sympathy from this forum. Weíve all been there/ still dealing with it.

Excargodog
07-22-2018, 11:53 AM
I was laying out the history not judging really.

There was one a couple years ago where a 700 literally fell out of the sky through a loaded holding stack... that could have put the company out of business.

But here's judgement for you: After YEARS of problems, training, education, memos, near catastrophy, and threats from the FAA I can understand why they are firing people. They have literally begged, pleaded, warned, and threatened for YEARS.


https://seekingalpha.com/article/3736256-faa-removes-speed-altitude-restrictions-skywest-airlines

sheriff5113
07-22-2018, 03:49 PM
Youíre not going to get much sympathy from this forum. Weíve all been there/ still dealing with it.

Yeah...did not get much sympathy from the pilot group when I buried my brother...(did not want anyone to figure out who I am...but Iíll make an exception for you Disk!) donít need your sympathy bro.... have fun ďdealing with it.Ē

Check Complete
07-22-2018, 04:04 PM
Sorry for your loss sheriff.

As to your situation, I don't think there would be much to lose by jumping over to one of the good regionals.

This place is dropping slowly and I think it's going to get worse before it gets better.

SonicFlyer
07-22-2018, 06:41 PM
You should be grossing $2700/mo... if you are losing $700/mo to taxes then something is seriously wrong.

flydiamond
07-22-2018, 07:49 PM
You should be grossing $2700/mo... if you are losing $700/mo to taxes then something is seriously wrong.

FICA 7%, federal 14%, state 4% plus insurance etc. would be typical. Iím surprised heís actually getting $2000 back. $700 is normal taxes.

Mustang62
07-22-2018, 08:11 PM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap....

It's not hype, it's real this time. Thats said, I guess any amount of shortage won't stop folks from doing a little research before signing up. Other than the number of bases and the perception of great training, why do people actually choose Skywest over the other guys that are paying more with a higher QOL?

DelTacoBowl
07-22-2018, 08:46 PM
Well I am no big defender of SkyWest per say, I am very unhappy with the anti-union rhetoric etc. But, SkyWest has worked out well for my situation and has provided me my springboard to my dream job.

Last month I lost a close friend and wanted to attend his funeral. Technically, this did not fall under the "grievance" rules because it was not an immediate family member. I spoke to my chief pilot honestly and openly about my situation and provided some evidence that I was not full of it. He immediately worked with crew support to get me emergency leave (unpaid but still) and sent me a nice email of condolence, which was kind and thoughtful. So possibly this was just an example of poor leadership on the local level. Because in my experience, I have found MY base leadership to be pilot people that go to bat for their pilot group.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 08:22 AM
Well I am no big defender of SkyWest per say, I am very unhappy with the anti-union rhetoric etc. But, SkyWest has worked out well for my situation and has provided me my springboard to my dream job.

Last month I lost a close friend and wanted to attend his funeral. Technically, this did not fall under the "grievance" rules because it was not an immediate family member. I spoke to my chief pilot honestly and openly about my situation and provided some evidence that I was not full of it. He immediately worked with crew support to get me emergency leave (unpaid but still) and sent me a nice email of condolence, which was kind and thoughtful. So possibly this was just an example of poor leadership on the local level. Because in my experience, I have found MY base leadership to be pilot people that go to bat for their pilot group.

This. SKW is not inhumane.

Mesa is inhumane. They will fire you for attending a close relative's funeral. I've seen it happen.

wrxpilot
07-23-2018, 08:26 AM
This. SKW is not inhumane.

Mesa is inhumane. They will fire you for attending a close relative's funeral. I've seen it happen.

I agree. I recently left SKW, and was there for over seven years. There were/are some things that need to be changed, but taking care of their people during a personal crisis is not one of them. They will take care of you, Iíve experienced it and witnessed it numerous times. Thereís a lot of things from the OPís post that donít make sense.

ajaf1656
07-23-2018, 08:49 AM
I love my job at SkyWest. I'm paid fairly (of course I'll always want more), I get what I bid for, I live where I want to live and the only time I've been asked for verification of a callout was when I broke my foot on vacation and couldn't go on my next assigned pairing. I've been working here around 2 years now and I am convinced that I have it better now than I will when I make my next move. My quality of life is sky-high even if I'm not making a lot of money.

It sounds like some people just make poor choices. You could choose a different airline, you could move, you could pull-out instead of having kids or you could have selected a career that meet all of the needs you brought with you to SkyWest. Some people talk about their decisions as if they are things that happened to them. If you were surprised by any of the things you complain about, you didn't spend enough time learning about what you were getting into.

Excargodog
07-23-2018, 09:19 AM
Some of us have more to pull out than others. It takes longer.
:p

hawk21
07-23-2018, 12:19 PM
Yeah...did not get much sympathy from the pilot group when I buried my brother...(did not want anyone to figure out who I am...but Iíll make an exception for you Disk!) donít need your sympathy bro.... have fun ďdealing with it.Ē

That is absolutely not what I was referring to. What happened with your family member is catastrophic. However, you shouldíve known what you were getting into with this industry. Itís brutal the first few years while building seniority/ experience to move on to green pastures. Sounds like you need to consider changing careers if you canít hang.

WaterRooster
07-23-2018, 03:32 PM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. Iím almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless youíre super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said weíre treated like family; said weíre best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, Iím just reserve number! Donít ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!

Deuces Bro.....

RJDio
07-24-2018, 09:30 AM
This. SKW is not inhumane.

Mesa is inhumane. They will fire you for attending a close relative's funeral. I've seen it happen.

SKW is not inhumane to some. If youíre on reserve and need time off for your own wedding a year in advance: sorry no reserve coverage. Sick spouse at home (and I donít mean with a cold): we canít do anything for you.

As a LAMA I can tell you life as a reserve at SKW was as bad as life (line holder)at Mesa if not worse. Line holder at SKW was better but you were/are still a number.

amcnd
07-24-2018, 09:55 AM
SKW is not inhumane to some. If youíre on reserve and need time off for your own wedding a year in advance: sorry no reserve coverage. Sick spouse at home (and I donít mean with a cold): we canít do anything for you.

As a LAMA I can tell you life as a reserve at SKW was as bad as life (line holder)at Mesa if not worse. Line holder at SKW was better but you were/are still a number.

Have you heard of FMLA for a sick wife... thats easy to get time off for..

RJDio
07-24-2018, 10:10 AM
Have you heard of FMLA for a sick wife... thats easy to get time off for..

Yes. Thank you captain obvious. Iím talking about being in the middle of the trip half way across the continent.

wrxpilot
07-24-2018, 10:17 AM
Yes. Thank you captain obvious. Iím talking about being in the middle of the trip half way across the continent.

Then you must be a poor communicator, as they would have pulled you from the trip and helped you get home ASAP if your spouse had a medical emergency.

amcnd
07-24-2018, 10:39 AM
Yes. Thank you captain obvious. Iím talking about being in the middle of the trip half way across the continent.

And they will get you home.. call the MOD... Its happened before. I have done it.. they even held the plane for me!!!

Melit
07-24-2018, 10:45 AM
SKW is not inhumane to some. If youíre on reserve and need time off for your own wedding a year in advance: sorry no reserve coverage. Sick spouse at home (and I donít mean with a cold): we canít do anything for you.

As a LAMA I can tell you life as a reserve at SKW was as bad as life (line holder)at Mesa if not worse. Line holder at SKW was better but you were/are still a number.
I call BS.. How could you have a sick spouse at home when they wouldn't let you get married in the first place?

wrxpilot
07-24-2018, 10:48 AM
And they will get you home.. call the MOD... Its happened before. I have done it.. they even held the plane for me!!!

Yep. Iíve even seen them do it for the FAs.

We all know that SKW has some real issues, but making crap up that didnít happen is NOT helping that cause. I donít know why some of you guys (not you amcnd) are doing that. Itís just... Weird.

rickair7777
07-24-2018, 11:11 AM
Yes. Thank you captain obvious. Iím talking about being in the middle of the trip half way across the continent.

Assuming that really happened in the first place. Remotely possible a minimum wage CS person would say no but that's why they have Sups and MODs.

But regardless... Not Fit to Fly. Walk off and head home.

RJDio
07-24-2018, 12:34 PM
Then you must be a poor communicator, as they would have pulled you from the trip and helped you get home ASAP if your spouse had a medical emergency.

Iíve been accused of many things. A poor communicator is not one of them.

RJDio
07-24-2018, 01:14 PM
Boy the Kool aid is strong today. This was in 2010. If you anyone who was on reserve during this time, they will let you know how they treated reserves.
Anyhow, a supervisor did get involved. Her tuned changed when I told her Iíd be going home either operating that flight back to the us to connect home on a ps or jumpseating (not in the actual) offline. Funny how accommodating they can be when the table get turned on them.

WaterRooster
07-24-2018, 06:56 PM
As a LAMA....

Wait.... your a LLAMA!!! Thatís crazy!

damo1089
07-24-2018, 07:40 PM
I'd love to know what base / equipment is subjecting you to 14 months of reserve. If you commute, can't you commute somewhere else where you can hold a line?

flyfast2u
07-24-2018, 08:12 PM
I call total BS on sheriff.... there is absolutely no way you are 14 months deep into SW & on reserve with no end in sight.

My class finished about a year ago in the ERJ, all of us are in bases all over the place and none of us have been on Reserve for quite some time.

Even with me having the best health insurance SW has to offer, paying extra for life insurance, and monthly child support, we are no where close to food stamps....

I rarely post on these forms, but reading these blatant lies is ridiculous

RJDio
07-24-2018, 09:27 PM
Wait.... your a LLAMA!!! Thatís crazy!

LAMA (life after Mesa airlines).
It used to be a thing.
:D

Check Complete
07-25-2018, 06:25 AM
And they will get you home.. call the MOD... Its happened before. I have done it.. they even held the plane for me!!!

I wouldn't go so far as to say this is the standard response, it depends on who is the MOD.

There was one in LAX and the one DEN that wouldn't give you the time day much less help out in a jam.

trip
07-25-2018, 06:47 AM
I wouldn't go so far as to say this is the standard response, it depends on who is the MOD.

There was one in LAX and the one DEN that wouldn't give you the time day much less help out in a jam.

Yep, I flew with someone who had to call in on the night of his wedding.
Your a number in a seat. YMMV.

Gone Flying
07-25-2018, 06:52 AM
[QUOTE=flyfast2u;2641950]I call total BS on sheriff.... there is absolutely no way you are 14 months deep into SW & on reserve with no end in sight.

above is a quote

reserve in SLC is well over 14 months on CRJ side. They have not been letting senior CRJ fo s transition to the 175 and have been using very junior people to fill that base. SLC, SFO, PHX and LAX CRJ are all close to 1 year if not more of reserve.

Skyhawk121
07-25-2018, 07:29 AM
Being on the CRJ side I don't keep close track of everything on the ERJ side, but I was talking to an ERJ FO the other day and he said he was off reserve after about 3 months, so I agree, there is no way someone is on reserve still after 14 months, unless the person is purposely bidding reserve, in which case you would think that would be a good thing since they would be getting what they bid for.

E6BAV8R
07-25-2018, 01:32 PM
There are a multitude of things that don't add up in the OP.

As a first year FO, I make more than $2k/month if I just get by hitting min guarantee. I also called in Sick my first month on the line while sitting Reserve. No further inquiries about it from CS or any word from my Chief. I also called in Fatigued my 2nd month. No word from my Chief and the FRC agreed and I got paid for the legs I didn't fly - also on Reserve. I haven't called in for any Emergency with my Chief, but from everyone I have talked to says that when it comes to family issues, etc, that SkyW is good about pulling you off a trip to handle whatever the issue is.

I don't follow the ERJ side too close, but if you are already commuting and sitting Reserve after 14 months, why not commute to a different base that can give you a line? If you're on the ERJ and not based in SLC or DEN, it's hard to see how you are still sitting Reserve after 14 months without bidding for it.

Newlife
07-25-2018, 03:57 PM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. Iím almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless youíre super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said weíre treated like family; said weíre best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, Iím just reserve number! Donít ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!

Thanks for the warning Sheriff. Sorry for your loss sir. Best of luck.

Flymeaway
07-26-2018, 09:20 AM
We definitely don't get paid well, at least the first few years. Food stamps...depends on where you live and how many dependents you have I guess, but certainly it's not much money for a college educated professional. (Queue the "you're making double what we made in 200X!" crowd.) The pay is still too low really to support a family on until you make captain. If you're single and no kids, again depending on base, it's up to the point you should be able to make it work without having to live in your Mom's basement/in a tent on the beach, etc, which is better than it was four or five years ago.



I do disagree that it's hard to get time off for an emergency though, within reason. I've had several sick calls and called in emergency once in year 1. No doctor's notes, no calls from the CP, no questions. Didn't even ask what the emergency was. I don't abuse the system and call in emergency twice a month because my buddy wants to go fishing, but when I've needed it, it's been available.

saxman66
07-26-2018, 01:59 PM
Being on the CRJ side I don't keep close track of everything on the ERJ side, but I was talking to an ERJ FO the other day and he said he was off reserve after about 3 months, so I agree, there is no way someone is on reserve still after 14 months, unless the person is purposely bidding reserve, in which case you would think that would be a good thing since they would be getting what they bid for.

Umm, where is he based? The stagnant bases on the West Coast, SEA, PDX, and maybe LAX, I have no doubt they are easily on reserve well over a year for either seat.

SonicFlyer
07-26-2018, 05:42 PM
The pay is still too low really to support a family on until you make captain. If you're single and no kids, again depending on base, it's up to the point you should be able to make it work without having to live in your Mom's basement/in a tent on the beach, etc, which is better than it was four or five years ago.
It's an entry level job, why would anyone expect it to pay enough to raise a family on or live in an expensive metropolis. :confused:

saxman66
07-26-2018, 05:48 PM
It's an entry level job, why would anyone expect it to pay enough to raise a family on or live in an expensive metropolis. :confused:

Operating a multi-million dollar machine that requires years of training and with a few mistakes could cost lives is an entry level job?!:mad: That mindset is what keeps our wages low.

flyfast2u
07-26-2018, 06:27 PM
Umm, where is he based? The stagnant bases on the West Coast, SEA, PDX, and maybe LAX, I have no doubt they are easily on reserve well over a year for either seat.

SEA & PDX are ERJ only
I know people who are at PDX who have been with SW for a year or less & none of them are on reserve.

SEA folks for about a year or a bit more....none on reserve unless they bid for it....

These are FO's.

rickair7777
07-26-2018, 06:41 PM
Operating a multi-million dollar machine that requires years of training and with a few mistakes could cost lives is an entry level job?!:mad: That mindset is what keeps our wages low.

It's not the mindset, it's the fact that people keep showing up.

SonicFlyer
07-27-2018, 05:39 PM
Operating a multi-million dollar machine that requires years of training and with a few mistakes could cost lives is an entry level job?!:mad: That mindset is what keeps our wages low.It doesn't take years of training :rolleyes:

And yes for the industry, it is an entry level job.

It's like a doctor doing residency.

Excargodog
07-27-2018, 08:01 PM
It doesn't take years of training :rolleyes:

And yes for the industry, it is an entry level job.

It's like a doctor doing residency.

Average residency salaries increased from $51,000 in the first year after medical school to over $60,000 after the fifth year. According to a recent commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine, when adjusted for inflation, resident compensation has not changed in 40 years.Aug 5, 2014
Residents Salary and Debt Report 2014 - Medscape

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/public/residents-salary-and-debt-report

Flymeaway
07-28-2018, 01:31 PM
Meh...CFI, banner towing and pipeline patrol are the entry level. But yeah, weíll always be paid the minimum that enough people will show up for. Thatís going up though. Lots of pilots that would come back to the industry if it started paying well.

SonicFlyer
07-28-2018, 05:12 PM
Average residency salaries increased from $51,000 in the first year after medical school to over $60,000 after the fifth year. According to a recent commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine, when adjusted for inflation, resident compensation has not changed in 40 years.Aug 5, 2014
Residents Salary and Debt Report 2014 - Medscape

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/public/residents-salary-and-debt-report

Which is about what FOs make at regionals now.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-28-2018, 09:29 PM
Which is about what FOs make at regionals now.

60k?? Maybe after a bonus at some of these places but I guarantee you at OO or some other regionals FOís arenít touching 60k. Even 51k is a stretch which is the ďoldĒ rates. Unless theyíre whoring themselves out for premium losing more days away from home.

Not complaining, just drawing the line between obvious and not... letís not kid ourselves, pay isnít 20k a year anymore but itís certainly not 60k unless youíre an Endeavor FO crediting a sh*t ton more than min guarantee. Again the bonuses really donít count as they are heavily taxed and most arenít up front i.e. require a year or sometimes three to see the full extent of them

Example: 45an hour at lets say 90 a month... That equals 48k a year pre tax before per diem. Even EDV.. 59 an hr times 90a month is 63k, what you claim all FOís are making... Tell me what other regional is paying FOís 59 an hour

UnderCenter
07-28-2018, 10:47 PM
Again the bonuses really donít count as they are heavily taxed

Bonuses are taxed the same as normal income. The IRS does not view bonuses any differently than income. They are initially withheld at a higher rate but it is corrected when you file your taxes and get your return at the end of the year once your total income is known.

Itís amazing to me that this false info has continued to be stated over and over again in the pilot community.

Fixnem2Flyinem
07-28-2018, 11:28 PM
Bonuses are taxed the same as normal income. The IRS does not view bonuses any differently than income. They are initially withheld at a higher rate but it is corrected when you file your taxes and get your return at the end of the year once your total income is known.

Itís amazing to me that this false info has continued to be stated over and over again in the pilot community.


Thatís weird because my 10k bonus was withheld at 48% so 5200 after taxes. When I filed taxes this year I made 48k with the bonus and didnít get much of that bonus back. I fact my refund was around 600 dollars. I claimed correctly on my W4 as I have since I started working, with the max withheld. I do reside in Oregon which is a heavily taxed state though. But nonetheless thatís a weak argument to state that FO pay is around 60k anymore, which was the intent of my rebuttal

WesternSkies
07-29-2018, 03:37 AM
It really depends on years of longevity.
60k isnít hard but not too cake for guys who have been around.
Does everything have to be about new hires.

trip
07-29-2018, 06:45 AM
Thatís weird because my 10k bonus was withheld at 48% so 5200 after taxes. When I filed taxes this year I made 48k with the bonus and didnít get much of that bonus back. I fact my refund was around 600 dollars. I claimed correctly on my W4 as I have since I started working, with the max withheld. I do reside in Oregon which is a heavily taxed state though. But nonetheless thatís a weak argument to state that FO pay is around 60k anymore, which was the intent of my rebuttal

We would have to know your federal taxes paid and AGI to figure out your effective tax rate, certainly itís nowhere close to 48%.

amcnd
07-29-2018, 07:00 AM
All of what your talking about will be a distant memory when your at a major. Dont bicker of $$$ go where you can have family support (not financial) friends, and a good time. Enjoy the few years your there... or all you will be is bitter and miserable.... Trust me. Lots of those guys at the Regionals..

Simpsons
07-30-2018, 01:33 PM
I started at OO in 2016 and my first full year was 2017. My final paycheck in 2017 showed my Gross was just over $60,000. That of course includes all bonuses and 401k match and everything

Excargodog
07-30-2018, 04:43 PM
Thatís weird because my 10k bonus was withheld at 48% so 5200 after taxes. ....... I do reside in Oregon which is a heavily taxed state though.

Basically, there went 10% right off the top for state income tax. That's a thousand just for the bonus and then 10% of the rest BEFORE social security is witheld - another 6.2% - and 1.45 % for Medicare. Then you get down to what the IRS wants. Then the IRS wanted $5,226.25 plus 25% of the excess over $37,950, and you OVER WITHELD by $600 (which was a free 8 month loan to the IRS by the way).

But the bonus is witheld at your top marginal rates which should have been 25%+10%+6.2%+1.45% = right around 43%. So yeah, considering you got $600 back, your bonus could have easily been witheld at 48%.

Now you can't do much about the federal stuff, but moving north to Washington woukd save you the 10% in state taxes.

LRSRanger
07-30-2018, 05:35 PM
Now you can't do much about the federal stuff, but moving north to Washington woukd save you the 10% in state taxes.

Then you pay sales tax, which can approach 10%. Of course nothing stops you from driving across the boarder to do all your shopping...

Excargodog
08-01-2018, 11:10 AM
Then you pay sales tax, which can approach 10%. Of course nothing stops you from driving across the boarder to do all your shopping...

Yeah, but even 10% - and it's generally 8 plus change, of your TAXABLE PURCHASES is a whole lot less than 10% of everything you make. And along the Oregon border local sales tax is reduced even more to allow local businesses to compete. Otherwise everyone just crosses the bridge and buys in Oregon.

But regardless,this tax isn't WITHELD like an income tax which is sort of a free loan to the state, and would NOT be taken from the bonus immediately.

FlyPurdue
08-01-2018, 11:27 AM
Average residency salaries increased from $51,000 in the first year after medical school to over $60,000 after the fifth year. According to a recent commentary in the New England Journal of Medicine, when adjusted for inflation, resident compensation has not changed in 40 years.Aug 5, 2014
Residents Salary and Debt Report 2014 - Medscape

http://www.medscape.com/features/slideshow/public/residents-salary-and-debt-report

Keep in mind that only the most difficult specialities require a 5 year residency, and once that is complete - you are looking at a 3-500k job easily. Show me where that happens in the airline world that 5 years later you are guaranteed that. Additionally, a shorter residency for a specialty such as internal medicine still has a guaranteed job at the end worth well north of 100k annually. (I donít think doctors are over paid)

Finally, residents are clearly under the supervision of attending physician and have less responsibility despite being certified ĎMDs.í Whereas us pilots are flying in the same cities (and in some cases same airplanes) as our mainline brethren, making the distinction of regional pilots = medical residents even more of a fallacy.

Source: My wife is an ENT resident.

Excargodog
08-01-2018, 11:37 AM
Keep in mind that only the most difficult specialities require a 5 year residency, and once that is complete - you are looking at a 3-500k job easily. Show me where that happens in the airline world that 5 years later you are guaranteed that. Additionally, a shorter residency for a specialty such as internal medicine still has a guaranteed job at the end worth well north of 100k annually. (I donít think doctors are over paid)

Finally, residents are clearly under the supervision of attending physician and have less responsibility despite being certified ĎMDs.í Whereas us pilots are flying in the same cities (and in some cases same airplanes) as our mainline brethren, making the distinction of regional pilots = medical residents even more of a fallacy.

Source: My wife is an ENT resident.

Hey, I don't have a dog in this fight, just quantifying someone else's argument.

FlyPurdue
08-01-2018, 12:10 PM
Hey, I don't have a dog in this fight, just quantifying someone else's argument.

Im sorry my comment came across like that, I know you don't.

I often hear that we as RJ pilots should be happy with subpar wages because we are either 'minor league' ball players, or are 'completing our residency' and wanted to point out the logical fallacy to the benefit of the forum. I did not read anything into your comment other than facts, and I simply wanted to expand on them.

Thanks, and I apologize for calling you out.

rickair7777
08-01-2018, 12:59 PM
Keep in mind that only the most difficult specialities require a 5 year residency, and once that is complete - you are looking at a 3-500k job easily. Show me where that happens in the airline world that 5 years later you are guaranteed that. Additionally, a shorter residency for a specialty such as internal medicine still has a guaranteed job at the end worth well north of 100k annually. (I don’t think doctors are over paid)

Finally, residents are clearly under the supervision of attending physician and have less responsibility despite being certified ‘MDs.’ Whereas us pilots are flying in the same cities (and in some cases same airplanes) as our mainline brethren, making the distinction of regional pilots = medical residents even more of a fallacy.

Source: My wife is an ENT resident.

Supply and demand.

Entry level pilots are a dime a dozen, and anyone who's not a complete drooling idiot can qualify to be employed at a regional. Also pilots are willing to pay dues for a shot at the bigs (which do have standards higher than "drooling idiot" for the most part).

Medicine requires rather more extensive schooling, which is academically challenging. Increasing the academic challenge rapidly (exponentially really) reduces the size of the suitable candidate pool. Also the medical establishment does a pretty darn good job of restricting the supply at the medical school level... no such mechanism exists in aviation, we have the labor pool equivalent of printing as much money as you need.

So naturally docs get paid more, and sooner, than most pilots (although some pilots get up there eventually).

Comparing compensation based on what's "fair" is waste of breath. The people in charge of setting compensation for your career field are not an impartial jury, they're managers whose job is to pay labor as little as possible. As long as pilots keep showing up, they're paying enough or too much.

FlyPurdue
08-02-2018, 03:56 AM
Supply and demand.

Entry level pilots are a dime a dozen, and anyone who's not a complete drooling idiot can qualify to be employed at a regional. Also pilots are willing to pay dues for a shot at the bigs (which do have standards higher than "drooling idiot" for the most part).

Medicine requires rather more extensive schooling, which is academically challenging. Increasing the academic challenge rapidly (exponentially really) reduces the size of the suitable candidate pool. Also the medical establishment does a pretty darn good job of restricting the supply at the medical school level... no such mechanism exists in aviation, we have the labor pool equivalent of printing as much money as you need.

So naturally docs get paid more, and sooner, than most pilots (although some pilots get up there eventually).

Comparing compensation based on what's "fair" is waste of breath. The people in charge of setting compensation for your career field are not an impartial jury, they're managers whose job is to pay labor as little as possible. As long as pilots keep showing up, they're paying enough or too much.

Absolutely agree with your points - my statement was to contrast two completely different career tracks, and I appreciated how you expandand on why it is not a fair comparison from a scarcity standpoint.

jumppilot71
08-05-2018, 03:36 PM
Donít believe the hype about this pilot shortage crap. I make 2k a month after taxes. Been on Reseve for 14 months with no end in sight. I commute, never see my family. Last night I changed out of uniform so I could sleep on an airport bench because the crew lounge was full. Iím almost outta here! Any new hires out there... stay the hell outta Skywest!!! Place is garbage unless youíre super senior and live in Salt Lake! I believed what they were selling in a hotel recruiting event. Said weíre treated like family; said weíre best paid, said if we had an emergency company bends over backwards to help. Truth, Iím just reserve number! Donít ever call in sick, you could lose your job! Lost a family member. I had to answer to Crew scheduling and 2 chiefs on why I missed 5 days of Reserve. I was asked to send in death certificate. Called SAPA...no one returned my call! What a joke!


Not trying to rub anything in but...I was on reserve for two days and my Chief has been nothing short of amazing in the several or more years that I've been here. :)

TheWeatherman
08-08-2018, 07:49 AM
I love my job at SkyWest. I'm paid fairly (of course I'll always want more), I get what I bid for, I live where I want to live and the only time I've been asked for verification of a callout was when I broke my foot on vacation and couldn't go on my next assigned pairing. I've been working here around 2 years now and I am convinced that I have it better now than I will when I make my next move. My quality of life is sky-high even if I'm not making a lot of money.

It sounds like some people just make poor choices. You could choose a different airline, you could move, you could pull-out instead of having kids or you could have selected a career that meet all of the needs you brought with you to SkyWest. Some people talk about their decisions as if they are things that happened to them. If you were surprised by any of the things you complain about, you didn't spend enough time learning about what you were getting into.
Never say you are paid fairly as a Regional pilot when they are making record profits.

E6BAV8R
08-09-2018, 07:28 AM
Never say you are paid fairly as a Regional pilot when they are making record profits.

What about when they start losing money (circa '90s and 2000s)? Can we say pay is acceptable then? What about when pilots are getting furloughed - should we keep asking for more? When is it enough? Are you implying the company should share record profits, but when the company loses money we take a pay hit like they do?

Everyone thinks they are underpaid, regardless of the industry. Just ask them. Hell, even people that flip hamburgers at McDonald's think they deserve more than double their current pay.

TheWeatherman
08-09-2018, 08:34 AM
What about when they start losing money (circa '90s and 2000s)? Can we say pay is acceptable then? What about when pilots are getting furloughed - should we keep asking for more? When is it enough? Are you implying the company should share record profits, but when the company loses money we take a pay hit like they do?

Everyone thinks they are underpaid, regardless of the industry. Just ask them. Hell, even people that flip hamburgers at McDonald's think they deserve more than double their current pay.




You mean like they have done countless times in the past? Just ask the pilots of Frontier how well that worked out for them.

Check Complete
08-09-2018, 09:18 AM
What about when they start losing money (circa '90s and 2000s)? Can we say pay is acceptable then? What about when pilots are getting furloughed - should we keep asking for more? When is it enough? Are you implying the company should share record profits, but when the company loses money we take a pay hit like they do?

Everyone thinks they are underpaid, regardless of the industry. Just ask them. Hell, even people that flip hamburgers at McDonald's think they deserve more than double their current pay.

I really, honestly don't care! I want more, a lot more. Did you ever see any of our management take a cut?

No!

We are making crazy record profits and our rates suck!

We are low on reserves, nobody can get a day off. Does management care? Nope, it helps their profits. When staffing gets real tight management asks the CP's to fly. Does management help out? Nope, nobody in upper management is even close to current and it helps their bottom line.

I'm done helping and I want a lot more, we deserve industry top!

Melit
08-09-2018, 10:55 AM
I really, honestly don't care! I want more, a lot more. Did you ever see any of our management take a cut?

No!

We are making crazy record profits and our rates suck!

We are low on reserves, nobody can get a day off. Does management care? Nope, it helps their profits. When staffing gets real tight management asks the CP's to fly. Does management help out? Nope, nobody in upper management is even close to current and it helps their bottom line.

I'm done helping and I want a lot more, we deserve industry top!

You are 100% wrong! After 9/11 management did take pay cuts and freezes so no one had to get furloughed. Check your facts. Stop posting until you do, it makes you look foolish..

Check Complete
08-09-2018, 11:09 AM
You are 100% wrong! After 9/11 management did take pay cuts and freezes so no one had to get furloughed. Check your facts. Stop posting until you do, it makes you look foolish..

Ya, I was here then.

They all talked about how they took pay cuts and that just wanted to help the company through the tough times. Then the next quarter profits were reported and all of management snapped back to original levels and some higher. They all got their bonuses too. Management looks out for management.

Boo freaking Hoo!

I want more!

Melit
08-09-2018, 11:40 AM
Ya, I was here then.

They all talked about how they took pay cuts and that just wanted to help the company through the tough times. Then the next quarter profits were reported and all of management snapped back to original levels and some higher. They all got their bonuses too. Management looks out for management.

Boo freaking Hoo!

I want more!
You said they NEVER took pay cuts now you say they did? You sound foolish. I warned you...

Melit
08-09-2018, 11:42 AM
Ya, I was here then.

They all talked about how they took pay cuts and that just wanted to help the company through the tough times. Then the next quarter profits were reported and all of management snapped back to original levels and some higher. They all got their bonuses too. Management looks out for management.

Boo freaking Hoo!

I want more!
Just wondering who took a raise the next quarter?

Check Complete
08-09-2018, 12:02 PM
You said they NEVER took pay cuts now you say they did? You sound foolish. I warned you...

Okay, to make it simple enough for you, nobody in management lost a dime through the whole thing.

I have a bunch of friends that were at director levels, some still here, some have moved on that told me exactly what I described.

And yes, some afterwards got increases, mostly stock awards.

You must have gotten into management after the fact and are still swilling the koolaid.

Take a breath Francis!

Melit
08-09-2018, 12:23 PM
Okay, to make it simple enough for you, nobody in management lost a dime through the whole thing.

I have a bunch of friends that were at director levels, some still here, some have moved on that told me exactly what I described.

And yes, some afterwards got increases, mostly stock awards.

You must have gotten into management after the fact and are still swilling the koolaid.

Take a breath Francis!

Be careful back peddling on old bikes, that's the brakes and you might go over the bars!

Melit
08-09-2018, 12:33 PM
Okay, to make it simple enough for you, nobody in management lost a dime through the whole thing.

I have a bunch of friends that were at director levels, some still here, some have moved on that told me exactly what I described.

And yes, some afterwards got increases, mostly stock awards.

You must have gotten into management after the fact and are still swilling the koolaid.

Take a breath Francis!
So you are a 17+ year guy? No wonder why you are ****ed, you are unable to move on and got stuck at a regional.

TheWeatherman
08-09-2018, 12:51 PM
You said they NEVER took pay cuts now you say they did? You sound foolish. I warned you...
Sounded like to me Management made out better while giving the illusion they took a pay cut. Kind of like how they gave you an illusion of a pay raise with the last TA proposal.

word302
08-09-2018, 02:48 PM
So you are a 17+ year guy? No wonder why you are ****ed, you are unable to move on and got stuck at a regional.

You love spouting 1-liners but never respond when proven wrong. Go troll somewhere else.

amcnd
08-09-2018, 04:14 PM
So you are a 17+ year guy? No wonder why you are ****ed, you are unable to move on and got stuck at a regional.

Tons of 17+ year guys moving on.... more then you think are bailing or plan on bailing

Paid2fly
08-09-2018, 11:30 PM
What about when they start losing money (circa '90s and 2000s)? Can we say pay is acceptable then? What about when pilots are getting furloughed - should we keep asking for more? When is it enough? Are you implying the company should share record profits, but when the company loses money we take a pay hit like they do?

Everyone thinks they are underpaid, regardless of the industry. Just ask them. Hell, even people that flip hamburgers at McDonald's think they deserve more than double their current pay.





SkyWest wasn't "losing money circa 90's and 2000's", nor are they now!:rolleyes::rolleyes:



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