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View Full Version : LASA Groups grievance


Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 06:53 AM
A group grievance is being filed against SkyWest Inc alleging a violation of our fragmentation clause.
“11 F. Fragmentation
If the Company transfers (by sale, lease or other transaction) five (5) or more aircraft in any twelve (12) consecutive month period to any air carrier(s) owned and/or controlled by SkyWest, Inc. or by any entity that owns and/or controls SkyWest, Inc. (SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies)) then, regardless of whether the transfer is to one or more SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies), beginning with the fifth transferring aircraft, the Company will require the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the aircraft are transferred to offer employment to Company pilots on the Pilots’ seniority list in accordance with the following provisions:
a. The number of Company pilots who will be offered an opportunity to transfer will be five (5) Captains and five (5) First Officers for each of the transferring aircraft, beginning with the fifth such transferring aircraft, and for each further transferring aircraft...
The Company pilots who transfer to the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) will be placed on the pilot seniority list of the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the aircraft are transferring, pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny- Mohawk LPPs, unless such SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilots are represented by the Association, in which case Association merger policy will apply to the placement on the Company’s pilots on the SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilot seniority list. A pilot’s longevity with the Company will be added to and treated as part of his service with the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) for all pay and benefit purposes and for every purpose under all retirement and welfare plans.”


It will be interesting to see how this plays out with the NMB.


amcnd
07-21-2018, 07:18 AM
Hope you guys win. But as stated on here earlier, NO XJT or (LASA) pilots want to come over to SkyWest.... they would rather go to Envoy/Endeavor/Republic ect...

Be interesting to see how it pans out. Looks like we aren’t taking as many “LASA” jets as planed do to MX shape and time to repair. MX said it was a 45 day plan to transfer each aircraft over. 80+ days is the average after the first 2.. Looks like they stoped after 3 700’s...

gojo
07-21-2018, 07:27 AM
Hope you guys win. But as stated on here earlier, NO XJT or (LASA) pilots want to come over to SkyWest.... they would rather go to Envoy/Endeavor/Republic ect...

Be interesting to see how it pans out. Looks like we aren’t taking as many “LASA” jets as planed do to MX shape and time to repair. MX said it was a 45 day plan to transfer each aircraft over. 80+ days is the average after the first 2.. Looks like they stoped after 3 700’s...

How did SkyWest let that happen?


Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 07:32 AM
Hope you guys win. But as stated on here earlier, NO XJT or (LASA) pilots want to come over to SkyWest.... they would rather go to Envoy/Endeavor/Republic ect...

Be interesting to see how it pans out. Looks like we aren’t taking as many “LASA” jets as planed do to MX shape and time to repair. MX said it was a 45 day plan to transfer each aircraft over. 80+ days is the average after the first 2.. Looks like they stoped after 3 700’s...

I don’t know if they would turn down the seniority they would get with SkyWest. We’re talking about very senior pilots who would have to be integrated into the SkyWest list, not stapled to the bottom.

amcnd
07-21-2018, 07:39 AM
I’m basing it off these forums.. but I doubt the 20+ year senior guys are on APC forums.....

Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 08:06 AM
I’m basing it off these forums.. but I doubt the 20+ year senior guys are on APC forums.....

Heck, I’d be tempted to take it just to spite CC.

WesternSkies
07-21-2018, 09:05 AM
Reads longevity not seniority.

calmwinds
07-21-2018, 09:21 AM
Reads longevity not seniority.

Don’t you take that to mean they will just “fit” them into SkyWest’s seniority based on when they were hired by ExpressJet? That seems to me to be a fair solution, which is probably why it is in the contract. ExpressJet senior pilots will be able to hold DFW or ATL or DTW bases like they used to.

amcnd
07-21-2018, 09:31 AM
Right now presidence is being set as “longevity” is given to ASA/XJT pilots for everything (travel, benefits, 401k,ect) except seniority list...

IDIOTPILOT
07-21-2018, 09:42 AM
Allegheny Mohawk would mean they can’t go to the bottom. Probably would be the most senior pilots going over too.

calmwinds
07-21-2018, 09:56 AM
Right now presidence is being set as “longevity” is given to ASA/XJT pilots for everything (travel, benefits, 401k,ect) except seniority list...

That works today for any new hire pilot from another 121 operation. This is written differently, which is why they are filing a grievance.

Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 10:26 AM
Reads longevity not seniority.

Nope.
“The Company pilots who transfer to the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) will be placed on the pilot seniority list of the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the aircraft are transferring, pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny- Mohawk LPPs, unless such SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilots are represented by the Association, in which case Association merger policy will apply to the placement on the Company’s pilots on the SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilot seniority list.”

amcnd
07-21-2018, 10:43 AM
That works today for any new hire pilot from another 121 operation. This is written differently, which is why they are filing a grievance.

But it was inplace for ASA pilots right after they announced the purchase of them years ago. We have lots that jumped over back then. But yes. Insee the point of the grievance... just will be interesting to see the number of aircraft in question...

Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 10:50 AM
But it was inplace for ASA pilots right after they announced the purchase of them years ago. We have lots that jumped over back then. But yes. Insee the point of the grievance... just will be interesting to see the number of aircraft in question...

Unfortunately our previous Union leadership gave this away with the JBA working so it was not in effect for a few years. But JBA is no longer in effect. Not sure when it went away, last year with the ISL (integrated seniority list) with the LXJT side or before that.

WesternSkies
07-21-2018, 11:05 AM
Nope.
“The Company pilots who transfer to the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) will be placed on the pilot seniority list of the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) to which the aircraft are transferring, pursuant to Sections 3 and 13 of the Allegheny- Mohawk LPPs, unless such SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilots are represented by the Association, in which case Association merger policy will apply to the placement on the Company’s pilots on the SkyWest, Inc. entity’s(ies’) pilot seniority list.”

No really. It says longevity and the lpp doesn’t state seniority.
Best of luck.

Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 11:14 AM
No really. It says longevity and the lpp doesn’t state seniority.
Best of luck.

No really. It states “...will be placed on the pilot seniority list....”
The intent is that management can’t try and do one or the other- longevity with no seniority or seniority with no longevity.

rickair7777
07-21-2018, 06:02 PM
No really. It says longevity and the lpp doesn’t state seniority.
Best of luck.

No really. It states “...will be placed on the pilot seniority list....”
The intent is that management can’t try and do one or the other- longevity with no seniority or seniority with no longevity.

Translation:

Seniority:

OO w/ ALPA => ALPA Rules => Arbitration informed by ALPA Policy

OO w/o ALPA => Unpredictable Arbitration



Longevity: Most likely the lesser of previous longevity or ten years. Possibly longevity commensurate with your SLI position.

Blackhawk
07-21-2018, 06:44 PM
Translation:

Seniority:

OO w/ ALPA => ALPA Rules => Arbitration informed by ALPA Policy

OO w/o ALPA => Unpredictable Arbitration



Longevity: Most likely the lesser of previous longevity or ten years. Possibly longevity commensurate with your SLI position.

“A pilot’s longevity with the Company will be added to and treated as part of his service with the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) for all pay and benefit purposes and for every purpose under all retirement and welfare plans.”

rickair7777
07-21-2018, 07:13 PM
“A pilot’s longevity with the Company will be added to and treated as part of his service with the SkyWest, Inc. entity(ies) for all pay and benefit purposes and for every purpose under all retirement and welfare plans.”

Thanks, I was referencing the posted language on seniority.

Nevjets
07-21-2018, 07:14 PM
The longevity language is in reference only to compensation, including 401k, and vacation, etc. In other words, once the negotiation/mediation/arbitration is complete in accordance to A-M LPP 3 & 13, (which basically just says it needs to be “fair and equitable”), where ever the pilots fall within the Skywest pilots’ seniority list (at the top, stapled to the bottom, or more than likely feathered somewhere between the two points), their current longevity will drive what pay rates they get, vacation accrual, 401k matching, etc.

This is long standing standard boiler plate type language.

If Skywest has been deemed to have violated this contract language, the possibility that the aircraft are no longer on skywest’s ops specs will not preclude pilots bidding over to Skywest since they would have been able to at the time of occurrence if Skywest had not violated the contract language, in order to be made whole retroactively. XJT would simply run a bid for LASA pilots on property who wish to go over to Skywest and exercise their seniority rights over there by a subsequent Skywest bid in accordance to their bidding procedures in their pilot handbook. So if five aircraft have gone over, 5 captains and 5 FOs would go over. If 9 aircraft went over, it would be 25 captains and 25 FOs, etc. So basically all ~600 LASA pilots would have the opportunity to go over to Skywest. The chances that not all spots are filled are, slim and none. Obviously, as soon as they are off the XJT seniority list, they would lose union representation when at Skywest.

Blackhawk
07-22-2018, 04:27 AM
Of course it’s all academic at this point. First the grievance has to be won, then CC has to abide by it without a lawsuit. I could see him dragging it out. Then going to congress and complaining again that he can’t find enough qualified pilots.

Check Complete
07-22-2018, 07:02 PM
I could see this dragging out for decades.

Sorry

amcnd
07-22-2018, 07:22 PM
I could see this dragging out for decades.

Sorry

By the time it’s settled. Pilots will say “who’s ASA?”.... it’s sad. But lots of pilots I fly with dont know XJT,ASA,ACA,MESA, Mesaba, Ect history. They only know the past 2 years...

Blackhawk
07-23-2018, 05:55 AM
By the time it’s settled. Pilots will say “who’s ASA?”.... it’s sad. But lots of pilots I fly with dont know XJT,ASA,ACA,MESA, Mesaba, Ect history. They only know the past 2 years...

I agree. But it's a battle that needs to be fought and won for all airline pilots everywhere or every fragmentation clause isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

amcnd
07-23-2018, 07:34 AM
I agree. But it's a battle that needs to be fought and won for all airline pilots everywhere or every fragmentation clause isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

I just wished the LXJT guys would have stood there ground and not given up the merger clause... all this would be behind us... and I'm sure we would be alpa...

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 08:16 AM
I just wished the LXJT guys would have stood there ground and not given up the merger clause... all this would be behind us... and I'm sure we would be alpa...

They had a gun to their heads, likely to have been COMAIRed otherwise. The regional system worked exactly as it was supposed to.

Nevjets
07-23-2018, 09:02 AM
They had a gun to their heads, likely to have been COMAIRed otherwise. The regional system worked exactly as it was supposed to.


There was no real gun to the head. Skywest would’ve either agreed to a three way merger or back away from the deal again. At that point, continental would’ve paid someone else to buy xjt or just paid the going rate for xjt’s services. There is no way they were going to be able to let 244 ERJs be parked that quickly.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 09:07 AM
There was no real gun to the head. Skywest would’ve either agreed to a three way merger or back away from the deal again. At that point, continental would’ve paid someone else to buy xjt or just paid the going rate for xjt’s services. There is no way they were going to be able to let 244 ERJs be parked that quickly.

It wouldn't have needed to be quick... plenty of lifers plus hiring was weak back then so even a 10-15 year phase-out was a real threat to many folks on the list.

Flogger
07-23-2018, 10:02 AM
I just wished the LXJT guys would have stood there ground and not given up the merger clause... all this would be behind us... and I'm sure we would be alpa...

You sit in that non-union shop and wish the union shop had stood up? Please tell me this is sarcasm, otherwise you are sorely lacking the most basic understanding of your place in this mess.

Nevjets
07-23-2018, 12:35 PM
It wouldn't have needed to be quick... plenty of lifers plus hiring was weak back then so even a 10-15 year phase-out was a real threat to many folks on the list.


Exactly! And here we are, eight years later and 175 less aircraft. So what did the MEC gain by rolling over compared to sticking to the negotiated language? Nothing except that if they would’ve stood their ground, there would still be the possibility that xjt get bought by someone other than Skywest. The MEC made the erroneous strategic decision to let Skywest buy xjt rather than sit tight and see if Skywest or continental blinked first.

By the way, only 9 reps on the MEC made that decision. None of them were lifers. None of them are still at xjt. So that is not really a valid argument.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 03:22 PM
Exactly! And here we are, eight years later and 175 less aircraft. So what did the MEC gain by rolling over compared to sticking to the negotiated language? Nothing except that if they would’ve stood their ground, there would still be the possibility that xjt get bought by someone other than Skywest. The MEC made the erroneous strategic decision to let Skywest buy xjt rather than sit tight and see if Skywest or continental blinked first.

By the way, only 9 reps on the MEC made that decision. None of them were lifers. None of them are still at xjt. So that is not really a valid argument.

Easy to say that now. Not so easy with your job on the line (real or perceived). Like I said, regional system functioning nominally.

Nevjets
07-23-2018, 05:18 PM
Easy to say that now. Not so easy with your job on the line (real or perceived). Like I said, regional system functioning nominally.


The point was to the lifer argument. Like I said, none of those 9 people who made the decision were lifers, well maybe one of them was. So it’s not like they felt if was their job on the line anyway because 244 RJs are not going to be parked/transferred in a year or less. Also, they could’ve easily had the membership vote on the Scope LOA. Which is what I argued they shouldve done if they weren’t willing to kill it at the MEC level to begin with. That at least wouldve been understandable if it wasn’t ratified. But they disenfranchised 2500+ pilots instead. And here is xjt, no better off. Actually, I think, worse off, unless something miraculous happens.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 06:38 PM
The point was to the lifer argument. Like I said, none of those 9 people who made the decision were lifers, well maybe one of them was. So it’s not like they felt if was their job on the line anyway because 244 RJs are not going to be parked/transferred in a year or less. Also, they could’ve easily had the membership vote on the Scope LOA. Which is what I argued they shouldve done if they weren’t willing to kill it at the MEC level to begin with. That at least wouldve been understandable if it wasn’t ratified. But they disenfranchised 2500+ pilots instead. And here is xjt, no better off. Actually, I think, worse off, unless something miraculous happens.

Maybe none of them stayed, for very good reason, but I cannot believe there were no lifers on the MEC in that era.

IDIOTPILOT
07-23-2018, 07:20 PM
Maybe none of them stayed, for very good reason, but I cannot believe there were no lifers on the MEC in that era.

There were many at that time who considered themselves lifers. Things have changed a lot since then.

Nevjets
07-23-2018, 11:20 PM
Maybe none of them stayed, for very good reason, but I cannot believe there were no lifers on the MEC in that era.


I was less than 2 years removed from being a rep on the MEC. I knew those guys. And out of the 9, maybe only the instructor rep was a lifer. He’s over at UAL now.

Blackhawk
08-10-2018, 05:47 AM
The person who filed this grievance has been told by the union that information in regards to the grievance and its status can't be released due to NDA's. :rolleyes:

WHOisHMSHost
08-10-2018, 11:22 AM
That means something is in the works right? Otherwise why would the union say that?

amcnd
08-10-2018, 12:05 PM
By the time its all figured out, they will realize that they owe OO pilots postitons at ASA. They are taking some of our 200’s...

Nevjets
08-10-2018, 03:30 PM
By the time its all figured out, they will realize that they owe OO pilots postitons at ASA. They are taking some of our 200’s...


Good point. Can you post the PPM or other document’s language on this? I’m wondering on the similarity in wording to the ASA contract. But it sounds like Skywest pilots should also file a grievance if this is the plan.

Check Complete
08-10-2018, 04:29 PM
Ya file a grievance!

You’re killing me!

JuniorFO
08-10-2018, 05:33 PM
By the time its all figured out, they will realize that they owe OO pilots postitons at ASA. They are taking some of our 200’s...

They are AS tails by the way, and were originally operated by ASA.

Blackhawk
08-10-2018, 07:15 PM
By the time its all figured out, they will realize that they owe OO pilots postitons at ASA. They are taking some of our 200’s...

You're kidding, right? You do know all the AS and EV tail numbers were once ASA airframes?

Blackhawk
08-10-2018, 07:18 PM
Good point. Can you post the PPM or other document’s language on this? I’m wondering on the similarity in wording to the ASA contract. But it sounds like Skywest pilots should also file a grievance if this is the plan.

The aircraft being transferred to XJT were originally ASA airframes (all the AS and EV tail numbers). Inc even decided to rub it in the noses of the ASA pilots by giving an -AS tail number the SkyWest livery.

Melit
08-11-2018, 06:42 AM
Isn’t endeavor enjoying some former ASA airframes?

Blackhawk
08-11-2018, 06:43 AM
Isn’t endeavor enjoying some former ASA airframes?

I think all of those were owned by Delta.

Burt Reynolds
08-12-2018, 06:21 PM
I thought this was about the Life After SkyWest Airlines Facebook group.

calmwinds
08-12-2018, 06:23 PM
Good point. Can you post the PPM or other document’s language on this? I’m wondering on the similarity in wording to the ASA contract. But it sounds like Skywest pilots should also file a grievance if this is the plan.

Funny, these are the same 200’s that SKW took from ASA a couple of years ago....

Nevjets
08-12-2018, 07:08 PM
Ya file a grievance!



You’re killing me!



The aircraft being transferred to XJT were originally ASA airframes (all the AS and EV tail numbers). Inc even decided to rub it in the noses of the ASA pilots by giving an -AS tail number the SkyWest livery.



Funny, these are the same 200’s that SKW took from ASA a couple of years ago....


It was a post written with sarcasm. I challenged amcd to post Skywest pilots’ “contract” language concerning their “rights” of going to ASA with “their” 200s, presumably because they have the same language as ASA does in their contract. I’m not surprised he has decided not to respond and actually provide proof for his assertion.

Anyway, like I said in another post, it doesn’t matter how long this takes to resolve. IF an arbitrator decides there was a breach in this part of ASA’s contract, there is no reason why pilots cannot be allowed to be made whole by being able to bid over to Skywest after the fact.

amcnd
08-13-2018, 03:19 AM
It was a joke, we have no such provision. No OO pilot would want to “flow” over to ASA. The ASA ORD CRJ base would be super senior, why would a 3 year ERJ Captain or 1 year CRJ Captain in ORD want to do that!!! and risk there loss of the Delta application review!!!

Nevjets
08-13-2018, 08:11 AM
It was a joke, we have no such provision. No OO pilot would want to “flow” over to ASA. The ASA ORD CRJ base would be super senior, why would a 3 year ERJ Captain or 1 year CRJ Captain in ORD want to do that!!! and risk there loss of the Delta application review!!!


More jokes...I guess it’s easy to make fun of the situation from Skywest pilots’ shoes.

word302
08-13-2018, 08:27 AM
More jokes...I guess it’s easy to make fun of the situation from Skywest pilots’ shoes.

This dude is in the minority. Most of us have a soul.

amcnd
08-13-2018, 08:28 AM
More jokes...I guess it’s easy to make fun of the situation from Skywest pilots’ shoes.

Yes. Because they joke about us also.... Jokes on us Those ASA 20 year guys are at SWA/UA ect... while we are still stuck here!!!

Nevjets
08-13-2018, 09:28 AM
This dude is in the minority. Most of us have a soul.


Sorry, I shouldn’t have disparaged all Skywest pilots.

amcnd
08-13-2018, 10:38 AM
Difference is i have lived through the ASA pay 10k for your job days, DFW E120 base, SLC CRJ base, with the cool B gate crew lounge, ect... Most people have no idea those days even existed...

RemoveB4Flight
08-13-2018, 05:45 PM
You're kidding, right? You do know all the AS and EV tail numbers were once ASA airframes?

Not all that are going to Expressjet are EV and AS tails.

Blackhawk
08-13-2018, 06:35 PM
Not all that are going to Expressjet are EV and AS tails.

Yeah, I’m sure we are getting the best ones. 🙄

Nevjets
08-15-2018, 04:12 PM
Yes. Because they joke about us also.... Jokes on us Those ASA 20 year guys are at SWA/UA ect... while we are still stuck here!!!

Difference is i have lived through the ASA pay 10k for your job days, DFW E120 base, SLC CRJ base, with the cool B gate crew lounge, ect... Most people have no idea those days even existed...


I would suggest that until you’ve lived through having your airline slowly disolved into oblivion while the non-union side grew in proportion, you stop making these jokes at the expense of ASA pilots’ livelihood. Until then, there is a huge difference in your experience and theirs. Most people may not have any idea those days you describe existed (which is irrelevant anyway), but I would bet that the majority of the current ASA pilots have lived through that and now are living through something that you don’t know what is like, facing your airline going away while your QOL diminishes (base closures, commuting, downgrading, pay cut, reserve) while it dwindles away.

amcnd
08-15-2018, 04:31 PM
I’ve e been Union. Ive been through that^... and it’s not just nonunion airline that have been doing it.. just wait tell the next mess unfolds.. alpa vs teamsters

Chicago Express, Midway, ATA, ACA, ect. Yes. Most won’t know that history... but it wasn’t that long ago...

Blackhawk
08-15-2018, 06:36 PM
I’ve e been Union. Ive been through that^... and it’s not just nonunion airline that have been doing it.. just wait tell the next mess unfolds.. alpa vs teamsters

Chicago Express, Midway, ATA, ACA, ect. Yes. Most won’t know that history... but it wasn’t that long ago...

Wait... you mean regionals fail and pilots lose their jobs?

ninerdriver
08-16-2018, 04:48 AM
I’ve e been Union. Ive been through that^... and it’s not just nonunion airline that have been doing it.. just wait tell the next mess unfolds.. alpa vs teamsters

Chicago Express, Midway, ATA, ACA, ect. Yes. Most won’t know that history... but it wasn’t that long ago...

Okay, I'll bite.

Please explain how any of those airlines, which gave it an honest try and failed, compares to how SKYW is actively trying to fail legacy ASA in order to benefit OO. That's how it looks from outside.

gojo
08-16-2018, 04:53 AM
Okay, I'll bite.

Please explain how any of those airlines, which gave it an honest try and failed, compares to how SKYW is actively trying to fail legacy ASA in order to benefit OO. That's how it looks from outside.

Ugh, waste of keyboard strokes. You’re just going to get another koolaid tainted reply

amcnd
08-16-2018, 05:18 AM
Okay, I'll bite.

Please explain how any of those airlines, which gave it an honest try and failed, compares to how SKYW is actively trying to fail legacy ASA in order to benefit OO. That's how it looks from outside.

First of all the question is not Valid. Contrary to conspiracy Inc is/was not trying to fail XJT. Hate to say it. Multiple causes caused that. MX contract, pilots unwilling to merge lists years ago, fight over PBS, UA/CO merger, inc unable to get costs to Skw levels, ect.... list goes on and on... but yes ACA got pushed put of UA feed. They didn’t have the option of going to another major at the time, they lost the D328 jet DL contract witch by the way took away comair/ASA flying... Or how about TSa taking eagle E145’s. Ect. Don’t have time to give you a history lesson...

gojo
08-16-2018, 06:04 AM
First of all the question is not Valid. Contrary to conspiracy Inc is/was not trying to fail XJT. Hate to say it. Multiple causes caused that. MX contract, pilots unwilling to merge lists years ago, fight over PBS, UA/CO merger, inc unable to get costs to Skw levels, ect.... list goes on and on... but yes ACA got pushed put of UA feed. They didn’t have the option of going to another major at the time, they lost the D328 jet DL contract witch by the way took away comair/ASA flying... Or how about TSa taking eagle E145’s. Ect. Don’t have time to give you a history lesson...

And there it is. Ffs

amcnd
08-16-2018, 06:12 AM
Your welcome, from your, asa,xjt,skw,aca, management/union leader internet airline running troll...

Nevjets
08-16-2018, 02:28 PM
I’ve e been Union. Ive been through that^... and it’s not just nonunion airline that have been doing it.. just wait tell the next mess unfolds.. alpa vs teamsters



Chicago Express, Midway, ATA, ACA, ect. Yes. Most won’t know that history... but it wasn’t that long ago...


You’ve been through that? Ok explain how you’ve been through what these 20 year ASA pilots have been going through to give you the excuse to make jokes at their expense.

amcnd
08-16-2018, 04:17 PM
You’ve been through that? Ok explain how you’ve been through what these 20 year ASA pilots have been going through to give you the excuse to make jokes at their expense.

Well
Having career expectations, then having to be downgraded back to FO, and make a lateral move to another regional.... sound enough like what they are going through for you??? And now looks like they are getting a “carrot” to pass a TA to get 175’s. Ive been through that also....

Nevjets
08-16-2018, 06:34 PM
Well

Having career expectations, then having to be downgraded back to FO, and make a lateral move to another regional.... sound enough like what they are going through for you??? And now looks like they are getting a “carrot” to pass a TA to get 175’s. Ive been through that also....



No, not even close. We are talking about these 20 year captains that were the butt of your “jokes” who have been strung along for a decade while seeing their airline shrink (downgrade, pay cut, base clusters, new commutes, aircraft change, contract change) while the non union side grew proportionately. The new carrot is new information that you didn’t even know about when making these jokes. So that is irrelevant to my point. But it’s never a good thing management dangles a carrot like that when the airline is in that perilous of a situation, one that so far you haven’t indicated you’ve been through.

Face it, your posts were insensitive. Just own it.

amcnd
08-17-2018, 02:42 AM
Nevejts. I alsways respect what you say. You have been around these boards or FI for almost as long as me. But im not going to give you a detailed history of my 3 regionals and 22+ years in the industry.... I’ve been through lots of hardship and issuse. Union and nonunion.... mostly union....

amcnd
08-17-2018, 08:09 AM
No, not even close. We are talking about these 20 year captains that were the butt of your “jokes” who have been strung along for a decade while seeing their airline shrink (downgrade, pay cut, base clusters, new commutes, aircraft change, contract change) while the non union side grew proportionately. The new carrot is new information that you didn’t even know about when making these jokes. So that is irrelevant to my point. But it’s never a good thing management dangles a carrot like that when the airline is in that perilous of a situation, one that so far you haven’t indicated you’ve been through.

Face it, your posts were insensitive. Just own it.

What will be insensitive will be XJT voting in a new Contract to get 25 E175’s that will put another UA Express carrier with 25 CRJ700’s at a loss... The regional game of musical chairs continue....

Blackhawk
08-17-2018, 09:01 AM
What will be insensitive will be XJT voting in a new Contract to get 25 E175’s that will put another UA Express carrier with 25 CRJ700’s at a loss... The regional game of musical chairs continue....

Those 25 CRJ-700's are probably coming from GoJet. As someone with a brother who flew for TSA, you'll find my sympathy in the dictionary near syphilis.

Nevjets
08-17-2018, 11:20 AM
Nevejts. I alsways respect what you say. You have been around these boards or FI for almost as long as me. But im not going to give you a detailed history of my 3 regionals and 22+ years in the industry.... I’ve been through lots of hardship and issuse. Union and nonunion.... mostly union....


I’m just saying that until you face the decision of a lateral move (after being downgraded, losing all your bases and aircraft, commuting, pay cut, loss of QOL) or leaving the industry AT THIS POINT in where your are in your career (senior 22 year captain), then maybe you should empathize a little in the comments made, especially coming from someone who works for the regional management which helped the demise of a once good regional. That’s all I’m saying.

What will be insensitive will be XJT voting in a new Contract to get 25 E175’s that will put another UA Express carrier with 25 CRJ700’s at a loss... The regional game of musical chairs continue....


This is another red herring (like your carrot comment earlier). It’s irrelevant to our current discussion.

amcnd
08-17-2018, 12:35 PM
Everything in the end worked out.. but ya. A ruff 22 years... for the senior guys. “Never to late to leave”!!!! Enjoy something new..

Feel free just to keep quoting me Nevjets..... and it looks like your not the same one as the old Nevjets???...

Nevjets
08-17-2018, 04:47 PM
Everything in the end worked out.. but ya. A ruff 22 years... for the senior guys. “Never to late to leave”!!!! Enjoy something new..



Feel free just to keep quoting me Nevjets..... and it looks like your not the same one as the old Nevjets???...



This just sounds like more insensitivity to me.



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