Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




atpcliff
07-23-2018, 09:52 AM
I just read about another sexual assault during flight. In a link to another column, the FBI has reported that this situation has been increasing dramatically in the past few years.

EVERY airline needs a plan and training for flight crews so that if this occurs, they know what to do. It seems that no US airline today has taken this into consideration.

LEOs said that everyone that was involved needs to be interviewed before they leave the plane, so that an accurate assessment of what to do can be made.

Fly Safe!


GuardPolice
07-23-2018, 10:30 AM
I saw a sign at the KCM checkpoint at STL today about this very subject. It looks like the feds are stepping up their awareness campaign

sflpilot
07-23-2018, 10:58 AM
For some reason the public seems to view the airports and flights as a place where all kinds of inappropriate behavior is acceptable.


Av8tr1
07-23-2018, 11:10 AM
For some reason the public seems to view the airports and flights as a place where all kinds of inappropriate behavior is acceptable.

Welcome to public transportation. This sort of crap is common on the subway of most major cities. Now with the marginalization of air travel we get the same result.

Put the public together and you get the lowest common denominator.

sailingfun
07-23-2018, 11:17 AM
I just read about another sexual assault during flight. In a link to another column, the FBI has reported that this situation has been increasing dramatically in the past few years.

EVERY airline needs a plan and training for flight crews so that if this occurs, they know what to do. It seems that no US airline today has taken this into consideration.

LEOs said that everyone that was involved needs to be interviewed before they leave the plane, so that an accurate assessment of what to do can be made.

Fly Safe!

Flight crews do not have the authority to arrest or detain passengers. If the police or FBI want everyone detained they need to meet the flight at the gate in a timely manner. Currently they do not.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 11:30 AM
Flight crews do not have the authority to arrest or detain passengers. If the police or FBI want everyone detained they need to meet the flight at the gate in a timely manner. Currently they do not.

They have the same authority as anyone else to make a so called "citizen's arrest". Exact details vary by state, but if you limit yourself to situations in which a serious felony was committed, you should be OK.

In flight the PIC can actually do just about anything necessary for safety of pax and ship.

Of course you might get sued or worse if you're wrong, so don't do it lightly. Occupational hazard I guess.

If you're not sure about an arrest, a good tactic might be to keep the jetway off the plane until you verify that LE has arrived to address the situation.

atpcliff
07-23-2018, 11:58 AM
If an airline has an official policy, then the crew is more protected if they follow it.

If the official policy is reasonable, then that should help protect the airline in the case of a lawsuit.

IDIOTPILOT
07-23-2018, 12:08 PM
There was at least one US airline pre-merger dealing with this on a regular basis so that procedures and tools were available.

rickair7777
07-23-2018, 03:16 PM
If an airline has an official policy, then the crew is more protected if they follow it.

Protected from the company. Not the criminal or civil legal systems, corporate policy doesn't trump that (But I was just following orders from ENRON headquarters...)


If the official policy is reasonable, then that should help protect the airline in the case of a lawsuit.

A lawsuit will be decided on the merits of what actually happened, not on the merits of what the company policy said should have happened. The company will be held responsible for employee behavior regardless of company policy.

SonicFlyer
07-23-2018, 06:11 PM
Welcome to public transportation.

Yep.... and TSA is leading the way... Thousands Sexually Assaulted

TiredSoul
07-23-2018, 07:14 PM
The other day I was surprised to see two unaccompanied minors both being seated next to a male adult instead of being seated together ( 1 + 2 CRJ).
If anything had happened that would have been negligent in my book.

worstpilotever
07-23-2018, 07:29 PM
What is the policy at atlas?

TeamSasquatch
07-23-2018, 07:54 PM
The other day I was surprised to see two unaccompanied minors both being seated next to a male adult instead of being seated together ( 1 + 2 CRJ).
If anything had happened that would have been negligent in my book.

How should the policy read? Maybe, ďOnly men commit crimes, so they can only ride on one side of a CRJ, unless the other side has only men, or the remaining seat is left unoccupied. If women and children commit crimes in the future, this policy will be updated.Ē

IDIOTPILOT
07-23-2018, 07:58 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_seating_sex_discrimination_controversy

Males traveling alone have rights too.

TiredSoul
07-23-2018, 08:35 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_seating_sex_discrimination_controversy

Males traveling alone have rights too.

Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

hilltopflyer
07-23-2018, 08:49 PM
Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

Wow.... should they only be white females? Or are black, Asian, Mexican females allowed to sit next to minors?

WHACKMASTER
07-24-2018, 05:27 AM
Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

Whatever happens they should definitely NOT be seated next to white males as white males in particular are the reason for everything bad and evil in todayís society.

badflaps
07-24-2018, 06:01 AM
Whatever happens they should definitely NOT be seated next to white males as white males in particular are the reason for everything bad and evil in todayís society.

This is very upsetting as I have a years supply of Gummy Bears that will go to waste.:eek:

rickair7777
07-24-2018, 06:09 AM
Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

Slippery slope.

Statistically more property crime is committed by people who are not older white males. Should they have to sit a separate section with a rent-a-cop for supervision? Just to make sure stuff in the overhead bins doesn't "walk off"?

Flyonwall
07-24-2018, 06:12 AM
Yep.... and TSA is leading the way... Thousands Sexually Assaulted

Your profile picture goes down as the best I have seen yet.

GogglesPisano
07-24-2018, 06:43 AM
Yep.... and TSA is leading the way... Thousands Sexually Assaulted

"It's not gay if it's TSA."

Fleet Warp
07-24-2018, 07:07 AM
https://i.redd.it/q8moexeqn9y01.jpg

Ray Red
07-24-2018, 07:22 AM
Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

Only biological females, on ones that identify as female? How about a transgender pilot traveling alone? Ok or not ok to place a UM next to?

itsmytime
07-24-2018, 07:35 AM
Slippery slope.

Statistically more property crime is committed by people who are not older white males. Should they have to sit a separate section with a rent-a-cop for supervision? Just to make sure stuff in the overhead bins doesn't "walk off"?

The poster never stated the race of the males. Just simply stated males. Lots of sensitive people implying otherwise.

GogglesPisano
07-24-2018, 07:51 AM
The poster never stated the race of the males. Just simply stated males. Lots of sensitive people implying otherwise.

But if we seat certain people next to UM's based on their gender, wouldn't that be gender discrimination?

Rahlifer
07-24-2018, 09:32 AM
Wow.... should they only be white females? Or are black, Asian, Mexican females allowed to sit next to minors?

No one brought up race, but statistically, the vast majority of child molesters happen to be middle-aged men. It sucks, but it's a harsh reality of life that certain steps do need to be implemented in order to protect the vulnerable. Not all men are predatory douchebags, but enough are that women and children can never let their guard down. I'm a middle aged white guy myself and see no problem whatsoever with such policies. I've got children and you can bet your butt that a single dude loitering by the playground while I'm there with my kids catches my attention right away.

TeamSasquatch
07-24-2018, 09:33 AM
Are you thick?
99.99999% of sexual assault is committed by ( drum roll)......men...
Unaccompanied minors should not be seated next to a male traveling alone.
There are plenty of female pax they can be seated next to and in the case of more than one minor seat them together in a row where and FA can keep an eye on them.

No, I just ate paint chips as a child.... you know, the kind of paint from back before the government started protecting people from things like lead paint and men.

Since you are such a math wiz, if 99.99999% of sexual assaults are committed by men, what percent of the total male population commits sexual assaults?

ItnStln
07-24-2018, 09:47 AM
https://i.redd.it/q8moexeqn9y01.jpg



Where would one purchase that shirt?

captjns
07-24-2018, 09:52 AM
Where would one purchase that shirt?

From the TSA Gift shop or on line... of course;)

Excargodog
07-24-2018, 11:11 AM
Yep.... and TSA is leading the way... Thousands Sexually Assaulted

There is that. I suppose it's like a gateway thing - if TSA bozos can grab things at will, why shouldn't anybody be able to do it?

Of course, that's a better argument for getting the TSA to clean up its act and stop groping your 15 year old daughter than it is to let someone else grope her too.

TiredSoul
07-24-2018, 05:16 PM
I didnít bring up race but since you started:
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Race_of_Perpetrators%20122016.png

As far as age:

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Half_of_Perpetrators_are_30_or_Older%20122016.png

So statistically itís the angry old white guy.....again....which makes him likely to be a Trump voter too.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

Fleet Warp
07-24-2018, 05:30 PM
You're a retard and a racist.

TiredSoul
07-24-2018, 05:47 PM
You're a retard and a racist.

Who you talking to Willis?

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/38721310/man-found-with-large-child-porn-collection-sentenced-to-10-years-in-prison

GogglesPisano
07-24-2018, 05:51 PM
I didnít bring up race but since you started:
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Race_of_Perpetrators%20122016.png

As far as age:

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Half_of_Perpetrators_are_30_or_Older%20122016.png

So statistically itís the angry old white guy.....again....which makes him likely to be a Trump voter too.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

Since 61% of the population is white, that actually makes an individual white male less likely to be a perpetrator.

4V14T0R
07-24-2018, 06:54 PM
Since 61% of the population is white, that actually makes an individual white male less likely to be a perpetrator.



Actually 76.7% but proves more to your point.

Since, black is the only other explicit group in the pit chart. Blacks make up 13.4% of the population. But I get it, itís only cool to demonize whites.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/US/PST045217


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

4V14T0R
07-24-2018, 06:59 PM
Deleted...

TeamSasquatch
07-24-2018, 07:33 PM
My small brain is confused by all the flashy circles..... Are men no longer allowed on one side or the other of airplanes? I learned in school that blacks at one time sat in the back of the bus. Didnít make sense at first since I had a really short bus, but once I passed the 9th grade on the 3rd try, I got to ride in the big bus.


The real irony for me is you calling a previous poster a racist, like thatís any different than being sexist...

TiredSoul
07-24-2018, 09:15 PM
Since youíre all so wild about stats:

Certain percentage of the population is criminal
Certain percentage of the population is certifiably insane
Certain percentage has temporary mental issues
Certain percentage of the population are registered sex offenders
Certain percentage of the population are sex offenders that havenít been caught yet
Certain percentage ad nauseum...

And all of the above travel for business, vacation or family visits.
So there, enjoy your happy thoughts next time youíre stuck in a pressurized aluminum tube with 300+ strangers.

Galaxy5
07-24-2018, 09:25 PM
Since youíre all so wild about stats:

Certain percentage of the population is criminal
Certain percentage of the population is certifiably insane
Certain percentage has temporary mental issues
Certain percentage of the population are registered sex offenders
Certain percentage of the population are sex offenders that havenít been caught yet
Certain percentage ad nauseum...

And all of the above travel for business, vacation or family visits.
So there, enjoy your happy thoughts next time youíre stuck in a pressurized aluminum tube with 300+ strangers.

Christ...Iíve always wondered what it was like being afraid of everything. Sounds exhausting. Do you have children? Can you see them right now? Someone might be offering them candy while theyíre trying to stick a knife in a wall outlet. Better go check.

atpcliff
07-24-2018, 11:23 PM
I think a policy such as this would be appropriate:

If a customer reports a sexual assault, the Purser should coordinate to get the customer reseated in a safe space. They should write down what happened.

The Captain should be notified and a course of action decided upon. I think the customer should be talked to about their state of mind: If the customer is very upset and/or needs to get a medical evaluation, then the flight should be diverted to the nearest suitable airport. If the customer wants to continue to the destination then the Captain should do that.

Upon arrival, they should either park on a ramp space, or not connect the jetway to the aircraft, until LEO are there. LEO should be let onto the aircraft, to conduct their investigation, and let LEO handle it from there.

I'm sure there are some more issues, including the laws that affect the situation: International airspace? Certain laws in various contries' airspace, the nationality of the customer.

There are a lot of factors that could lead to the customer feeling that they were treated well by the airline, or could lead to a massive lawsuit and very bad press for the airline.

It is also probably a good idea for the airlines to get together with LEO and figure out a standard protocol for these events that have been increasing quite a bit in the last few years, according to the FBI.

Fly safe!

PS-I fly passengers sometimes, and I had never thought of this situation happening when I was operating a PAX flight. I would like to hear your feedback and ideas: If this happened on a flight I was crewing, I would hope to do what I can to make the situation the least negative practically, for all of our customers.

TiredSoul
07-24-2018, 11:52 PM
Christ...Iíve always wondered what it was like being afraid of everything. Sounds exhausting. Do you have children? Can you see them right now? Someone might be offering them candy while theyíre trying to stick a knife in a wall outlet. Better go check.

Itís not the 1930ís anymore brother.
Deregulation and cheap fares have made air travel possible for the scum of the earth also.

https://travelholic.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/featured-image-1-are-these-the-worlds-worst-airline-passengers.png

tomgoodman
07-25-2018, 05:40 AM
Itís not the 1930ís anymore brother.
Deregulation and cheap fares have made air travel possible for the scum of the earth also.


Discrimination against the poor as well? Youíre on a roll. :rolleyes:

akulahunter
07-25-2018, 05:49 AM
I didnít bring up race but since you started:
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Race_of_Perpetrators%20122016.png

As far as age:

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Half_of_Perpetrators_are_30_or_Older%20122016.png

So statistically itís the angry old white guy.....again....which makes him likely to be a Trump voter too.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

Ok, you are obviously just trolling but I'll bite anyway...

The site you referenced didn't say anything about gender. However, it did say that 93% of assaults were by people they knew and that the majority were by people who have a criminal past... so, don't sit children with their friends and families?

Also, anyone who has taught (or sat through) a class on sexual assault KNOWS that 99.99999% of assaults aren't perpetrated by males (majority yes, but to view it as that high of a percentage will open you to a world of hurt one day).

GogglesPisano
07-25-2018, 05:57 AM
It’s not the 1930’s anymore brother.
Deregulation and cheap fares have made air travel possible for the scum of the earth also.

https://travelholic.co/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/featured-image-1-are-these-the-worlds-worst-airline-passengers.png

You can say that again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5982513/Female-passenger-disgusts-aircrew-urinates-floor-Whizzair-flight.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5982513/Female-passenger-disgusts-aircrew-urinates-floor-Whizzair-flight.html

Slaphappy
07-25-2018, 10:16 AM
I didnít bring up race but since you started:
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Race_of_Perpetrators%20122016.png

As far as age:

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Half_of_Perpetrators_are_30_or_Older%20122016.png

So statistically itís the angry old white guy.....again....which makes him likely to be a Trump voter too.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence

consider whites are 75% of the population that's lower than average for people.

hilltopflyer
07-25-2018, 10:36 AM
consider whites are 75% of the population that's lower than average for people.

Itís funny how he used it for a point but it back fired cause he (maybe she) canít comprhend what they are reading

TiredSoul
07-26-2018, 10:24 PM
Discrimination against the poor as well? Youíre on a roll. :rolleyes:

Equal dislike of all :D

Hey letís not forget the dude you share a cockpit with:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/114953-hey-were-getting-sued-again.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sexual-assault-flight-attendants_us_5a0ddaf6e4b0b37054f55c15

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/18/canada.colonel.killings/index.html

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/05/10/high-ranking-f-22-pilot-charged-rape-sleeping-woman.html

And we got testicle dude, how can we forget him:
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/19/denver-arrest-testicle-removal/

Slaphappy
07-27-2018, 01:19 PM
Discrimination against the poor as well? Youíre on a roll. :rolleyes:

Nothing wrong with that.

RhinoPherret
07-29-2018, 04:50 AM
Discrimination against the poor as well? Youíre on a roll. :rolleyes:

Discrimination against rude arrogant disrespectful slobs, be they poor or rich, I am all for that!

BMEP100
07-29-2018, 04:58 AM
I didnít bring up race but since you started:
https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Race_of_Perpetrators%20122016.png

As far as age:

https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Half_of_Perpetrators_are_30_or_Older%20122016.png

So statistically itís the angry old white guy.....again....which makes him likely to be a Trump voter too.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violence


Interesting statistic. It looks like, for the purpose of this report that Hispanic/Latino are considered part of the "white" racial group.

tomgoodman
07-29-2018, 07:31 AM
Discrimination against rude arrogant disrespectful slobs, be they poor or rich, I am all for that!

Fair enough, but labels like ďscum of the earthĒ must be earned by behavior, not because one couldnít afford airfares before the advent of cheap tickets. Rich passengersí conduct is as bad, if not worse, than that of the poor.

Fleet Warp
07-29-2018, 08:43 AM
Interesting statistic. It looks like, for the purpose of this report that Hispanic/Latino are considered part of the "white" racial group.

Good catch!

hilltopflyer
07-29-2018, 10:41 AM
Good catch!

And every race besides black.... great article Choice by the poster. Wonder why he chose this article.

SonicFlyer
07-29-2018, 05:37 PM
Rich passengersí conduct is as bad, if not worse, than that of the poor.

Oh what could you possibly be referring to?


:D

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=steeplechase+fight

bozobigtop
07-30-2018, 09:46 PM
Pedophiles and people who commit sexual assaults are scumbags. If I had my way this person would have two choices. Either meet the male relatives of their victim or victims. If it was my family youíre not walking away but likely carried away. The second choice is to turn yourself in to law enforcement. Jail or prison this type of person is considered to be prey and your days are probably numbered!

fadec
08-01-2018, 06:08 AM
Interesting statistic. It looks like, for the purpose of this report that Hispanic/Latino are considered part of the "white" racial group.

Who is and is not considered part of a racial group is a total mess. Societies approval and disapproval for self-identification is also a mess. We have government and employment forms with race on them, but no government agency to determine my race. It's a free-for-all wrapped in legalese.

If a white man calls himself black, and this offends black people, then their outrage is justified. But if a Hispanic calls himself white, it is racism to take offense. Yet still, if a Hispanic applies for work and there is a "Hispanic" box to check, he should check it. Sicilians and Jews must check "white" or "n/a" because there is no box for their race, and though their outrage at this is non-existent (disclaimer: I suspect), it would be justified.

What a CF.

CrispyBacon
08-01-2018, 06:52 AM
https://i.redd.it/2z5cmk0obhd11.jpg

Airlines ban straws next :eek:

ItnStln
08-02-2018, 05:20 AM
Interesting statistic. It looks like, for the purpose of this report that Hispanic/Latino are considered part of the "white" racial group.

From my understanding Hispanic/Latino is an ethnic group and not a race, like Judaism or Islam.

ItnStln
08-02-2018, 05:37 AM
Who is and is not considered part of a racial group is a total mess. Societies approval and disapproval for self-identification is also a mess. We have government and employment forms with race on them, but no government agency to determine my race. It's a free-for-all wrapped in legalese.

If a white man calls himself black, and this offends black people, then their outrage is justified. But if a Hispanic calls himself white, it is racism to take offense. Yet still, if a Hispanic applies for work and there is a "Hispanic" box to check, he should check it. Sicilians and Jews must check "white" or "n/a" because there is no box for their race, and though their outrage at this is non-existent (disclaimer: I suspect), it would be justified.

What a CF.

Indeed, it is a CF. Well said!

SpeedyVagabond
08-02-2018, 04:55 PM
Equal dislike of all :D

Hey let’s not forget the dude you share a cockpit with:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/114953-hey-were-getting-sued-again.html

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sexual-assault-flight-attendants_us_5a0ddaf6e4b0b37054f55c15

Pilot who flew Queen found guilty of murder, sexual assault - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/18/canada.colonel.killings/index.html)

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/05/10/high-ranking-f-22-pilot-charged-rape-sleeping-woman.html

And we got testicle dude, how can we forget him:
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/05/19/denver-arrest-testicle-removal/

Wow! I read these links. It's enough to make any soul tired. Especially testicle dude. Wth?



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1