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View Full Version : QOL


bscott58d
07-25-2018, 06:25 PM
If I were to take a poll how would the results look in regards to QOL, scheduling, and reserve\ lines? Iíve read a fair bit on here and it seems there are many reasons some recommend avoiding AWA, but some good points as well.
Would an FO with 121 already typed build time to make Cpt fairly quickly and enjoy doing it here?


injun21
07-25-2018, 10:42 PM
If I were to take a poll how would the results look in regards to QOL, scheduling, and reserve\ lines? Iíve read a fair bit on here and it seems there are many reasons some recommend avoiding AWA, but some good points as well.
Would an FO with 121 already typed build time to make Cpt fairly quickly and enjoy doing it here?

If you live in base or can EASILY one-leg commute you will enjoy it here. I came over from a different 121 airline and will be able to upgrade to CA as soon as seniority allows if I choose to earn the extra stripe. I enjoy the people I work with and I enjoy being paid more with duty rig and trip rig protection. I also find it easy to pick up extra ďcriticalĒ flying which is paid at 200%. This means I regularly credit 110-115 hrs per month while only actually flying about 80. I was typed in the CL-65 and found the training very thorough, yet fair. You can PIC this plane after getting off IOE.

lukeh99
07-26-2018, 06:39 AM
I would also add that the CPP is supposed to start 4th quarter of this year which will make already healthy seniority movement even faster. I wouldnít count on it as your only path to a major, but it canít hurt and will reinforce the recent fast upgrades and get the upper end of the list moving.


Grumbletrousers
07-26-2018, 11:45 AM
I would also add that the CPP is supposed to start 4th quarter of this year which will make already healthy seniority movement even faster. I wouldnít count on it as your only path to a major, but it canít hurt and will reinforce the recent fast upgrades and get the upper end of the list moving.

First 10 people all got emails from United and management to update their apps. Only 10 are going this year.

donkeyjockey
07-26-2018, 06:13 PM
First 10 people all got emails from United and management to update their apps. Only 10 are going this year.

Only 10? Only 10. That's 2% of our pilot group. If that number is consistent per 1/4 that's almost 10% of the pilot group per year. HE EVERYBODY, WE'RE ALL GONNA GET LAID!!!

lukeh99
07-26-2018, 07:54 PM
Only 10 are going this year.

What is your source for this?

Grumbletrousers
07-27-2018, 04:41 AM
What is your source for this?

A CPP candidate who received the email. Whether or not the company sends more is anyoneís guess but the top 10 who completed the entire CPP got emails. Which from what Iím hearing is about 25% of the candidates which made it through both stages.

lukeh99
07-27-2018, 07:02 AM
A CPP candidate who received the email. Whether or not the company sends more is anyoneís guess but the top 10 who completed the entire CPP got emails. Which from what Iím hearing is about 25% of the candidates which made it through both stages.
The email actually said only 10 are going this year?

Grumbletrousers
07-27-2018, 09:00 AM
The email actually said only 10 are going this year?

No it didnít say 10 specifically. He spoke with others who were pulled and the consensus was they were the only ones who would be selected this year.

This information is all heresay of course and anything can change, but if the rumors of 10% AWA per United class is true this number is about right. My guess would be 2 pilots a month going forward.

lukeh99
07-27-2018, 11:49 AM
No it didnít say 10 specifically. He spoke with others who were pulled and the consensus was they were the only ones who would be selected this year.

This information is all heresay of course and anything can change, but if the rumors of 10% AWA per United class is true this number is about right. My guess would be 2 pilots a month going forward.
United is hiring 100 per month right now.

Grumbletrousers
07-27-2018, 04:54 PM
United is hiring 100 per month right now.

That may be true, but itís my understanding that their classes are backed up.

bscott58d
08-02-2018, 09:15 PM
Still looking though the rest of the post but how often does junior manning happen here? Any verbiage in your contract about being forced to work normally scheduled days off?

PassportPlump
08-03-2018, 05:58 AM
United is hiring 100 per month right now.

That is incorrect.

lukeh99
08-03-2018, 08:54 AM
That is incorrect.

I was told this by a person in management at United who would know. It could be bad information. How do you know this info is incorrect and how many are they actually hiring?

joefly
08-03-2018, 09:05 AM
Have offers from Republic and Air Wisconsin...leaning toward Republic but the bonus pay out is tempting for Air Wisconsin...looking for QOL and live PHL

bscott58d
08-03-2018, 09:17 AM
Have offers from Republic and Air Wisconsin...leaning toward Republic but the bonus pay out is tempting for Air Wisconsin...looking for QOL and live PHL

Ah someone commenting on the thread subject! Iím with you, have a Republic CJO for 4 sept but interview with AWA and E9 before then. The bonus is tempting for sure. My up in the air comes down to commuting to PHL or taking CAE and driving. Overall pay breaks down like this including year 1 bonus. I know faster upgrades for AWA will close the gap some but wanted to be conservative on outlook.

joefly
08-03-2018, 09:38 AM
Thanks for that breakdown! I live in outside PHL but if I were to take Air Wisconsin offer I would probably move to SC hoping I would get CAE base. Isnít Air Wisconsin junior manning? Thatís something that isnít attracting me there...Republic seems like a better choice for me QOL wise and being able to live within driving distance of PHL, EWR and LGA

bscott58d
08-03-2018, 10:53 AM
Thanks for that breakdown! I live in outside PHL but if I were to take Air Wisconsin offer I would probably move to SC hoping I would get CAE base. Isnít Air Wisconsin junior manning? Thatís something that isnít attracting me there...Republic seems like a better choice for me QOL wise and being able to live within driving distance of PHL, EWR and LGA

The junior manning is part of what I trying to get an answer to as well.

stroopwaffle
08-03-2018, 10:55 AM
Junior manning is great because you get to fly more and make more money. Especially into your days off!

hockey27
08-03-2018, 11:01 AM
Ah someone commenting on the thread subject! Iím with you, have a Republic CJO for 4 sept but interview with AWA and E9 before then. The bonus is tempting for sure. My up in the air comes down to commuting to PHL or taking CAE and driving. Overall pay breaks down like this including year 1 bonus. I know faster upgrades for AWA will close the gap some but wanted to be conservative on outlook.

Thanks for the breakdown. It really helps seeing the numbers.

StrykerB21
08-03-2018, 11:33 AM
Junior manning is great because you get to fly more and make more money. Especially into your days off!

The sarcasm is strong with this one.

joefly
08-03-2018, 12:40 PM
I donít want to go to work on my days off...I have a family life and surf

stroopwaffle
08-03-2018, 02:07 PM
I donít want to go to work on my days off...I have a family life and surf

Who needs a life when you get to FLY AIRPLANES and make 200 PERCENT.

Honestly though, junior mans are only an issue when we aren't staffed correctly. For many years they were quite rare. Once we are back to normal staffing levels and reserves are sitting around more, junior mans will decrease.




I think they should just start giving every new hire multiple training failures that go on PRIA so they have a hard time leaving.

:cool:

StrykerB21
08-03-2018, 02:14 PM
I think they should just start giving every new hire multiple training failures that go on PRIA so they have a hard time leaving.

:cool:

I thought that was already going on?

prex8390
08-03-2018, 03:01 PM
Who needs a life when you get to FLY AIRPLANES and make 200 PERCENT.

Honestly though, junior mans are only an issue when we aren't staffed correctly. For many years they were quite rare. Once we are back to normal staffing levels and reserves are sitting around more, junior mans will decrease.




I think they should just start giving every new hire multiple training failures that go on PRIA so they have a hard time leaving.

:cool:

I remember back when i was there, when we first got navtech charts and iPads, they would just be missing altitude crossing restrictions on STARS, speeds and other required information, that was the joke. ďViolate em so they canít leave!Ē Those things looked literally like some college kids put them together in their free time at first.

injun21
08-03-2018, 10:41 PM
Still looking though the rest of the post but how often does junior manning happen here? Any verbiage in your contract about being forced to work normally scheduled days off?



I have never been junior manned. Because I received a MKE line while still in systems, I am protected. If you can hold a line, as an FO, at either MKE or CAE. You are somewhat protected from JMs. I start early on day one and am usually done between 7p-1145p on day four so thereís not much they can do to me.

This is my 2nd 121 job. I was guaranteed 11 days off at my last job but usually got 12 as a lineholder. At AWAC I usually have 13-14 days off.

At my last job I usually flew and was paid for 75-80 hours. At AWAC I never, ever, ever credit(paid) less than 96 hours before picking up extra flying. Because of pay protections you make more money here.

Today, I flew .9 hours from AZO-ORD then took a deadhead .8 hours from ORD-MKE but was paid for three hours.

On Sunday and Monday, I flew for 4.6 hours and was paid for 21 because I picked up extra flying that was in critical time. Itís easy to do. You will make ALOT of money here for being a ďregionalĒ airline pilot.

As a Capt. you will get JMed more and make $140 while bent over. Itís just a rite of passage.

injun21
08-03-2018, 10:54 PM
Have offers from Republic and Air Wisconsin...leaning toward Republic but the bonus pay out is tempting for Air Wisconsin...looking for QOL and live PHL



If you can live in base you will be happy. Being able to drive to work makes my wife and kids happy. In base...... in base.

injun21
08-03-2018, 10:59 PM
Ah someone commenting on the thread subject! Iím with you, have a Republic CJO for 4 sept but interview with AWA and E9 before then. The bonus is tempting for sure. My up in the air comes down to commuting to PHL or taking CAE and driving. Overall pay breaks down like this including year 1 bonus. I know faster upgrades for AWA will close the gap some but wanted to be conservative on outlook.


You can use the diagram because there are too many variables that that throw that off

With AWAC pay protections you will make money here. If you can drive to work, itís a great job. I do not drink kool-aid. I am not management. ALL regionals suck. This one just has less suction.

injun21
08-03-2018, 11:00 PM
You can use the diagram because there are too many variables that that throw that off

With AWAC pay protections you will make money here. If you can drive to work, itís a great job. I do not drink kool-aid. I am not management. ALL regionals suck. This one just has less suction.

You canít use.....

joefly
08-04-2018, 05:36 AM
Thanks for the comments...what are chances of new FO getting CAE?

Grumbletrousers
08-04-2018, 05:55 AM
I have never been junior manned. Because I received a MKE line while still in systems, I am protected. If you can hold a line, as an FO, at either MKE or CAE. You are somewhat protected from JMs. I start early on day one and am usually done between 7p-1145p on day four so thereís not much they can do to me.

This is my 2nd 121 job. I was guaranteed 11 days off at my last job but usually got 12 as a lineholder. At AWAC I usually have 13-14 days off.

At my last job I usually flew and was paid for 75-80 hours. At AWAC I never, ever, ever credit(paid) less than 96 hours before picking up extra flying. Because of pay protections you make more money here.

Today, I flew .9 hours from AZO-ORD then took a deadhead .8 hours from ORD-MKE but was paid for three hours.

On Sunday and Monday, I flew for 4.6 hours and was paid for 21 because I picked up extra flying that was in critical time. Itís easy to do. You will make ALOT of money here for being a ďregionalĒ airline pilot.

As a Capt. you will get JMed more and make $140 while bent over. Itís just a rite of passage.

Couple of things here:

You are not protected because you have a line in MKE or CAE. If they are short pilots, you will be rerouted, junior manned, and you will work on your days off. Junior manning is completely dependent on coverage. While itís true that being in a maintenance base may prevent some instances of junior-manning because of the horrendous schedules, to think youíre ďprotectedĒ is naive.

Being Junior-manned when upgrading to Captain is not ďrite of passageĒ. Itís a weakness in the current contact, and a direct result of short staffing due to an inability to recruit new pilots.

StrykerB21
08-04-2018, 06:19 AM
Thanks for the comments...what are chances of new FO getting CAE?

We wont know for a few more weeks but my assumption is that it will be junior and you should have no trouble getting it.

pitchtrim
08-04-2018, 07:11 AM
I had never been junior manned as an fo. When I sat reserve captain they got me a couple times in the year I was on reserve. Then we became short and my phone was blowing up as a line holder. Hasn't rang much the last few weeks, knock on wood.

bscott58d
08-04-2018, 09:11 AM
Being Junior-manned when upgrading to Captain is not “rite of passage”. It’s a weakness in the current contact, and a direct result of short staffing due to an inability to recruit new pilots.

What’s your take on why AWA has a hard time recruiting? What’s the monthly attrition rate look like?
Where I’m currently at the contract is so ambiguously written a union rep I talked to said they’d like to punch whoever wrote our contract in the face no kidding

Grumbletrousers
08-04-2018, 01:46 PM
Whatís your take on why AWA has a hard time recruiting? Whatís the monthly attrition rate look like?
Where Iím currently at the contract is so ambiguously written a union rep I talked to said theyíd like to punch whoever wrote our contract in the face no kidding

A few reasons:

1) We only fly the 200. This is not a big deal for most people, but there is a large group of young pilots that only care about flying the 175. Shiny jet syndrome is real, and for whatever reason some people even make out ďengine under wingĒ time as being more important then normal jet time.

2) Our bases. Flying only in the Midwest and on the East coast, we already lose anyone who wants a west coast base. Furthermore IAD is SUPER senior. ORD is pretty senior already and will only get more senior with displacements. That leaves MKE which is a two leg commute for anyone that doesnít live in the Chicagoland area (or a one leg commute and a bus ride), and CAE which will be a mostly commuter base with only 2 flights a day from ORD or IAD.

3) Pay/ Career progressment incentives. We could have classes filled in an instant if we went to E9 rates. We could pad our seniority list quickly if we had a flow-through to United. Unfortunately we donít have either of those options. We canít get E9 rates because we donít have the financial backing of a wholly-owned, and we canít have a flow because United doesnít have any wholly-owns.

Itís frustrating because AWA is an awesome place to work. (Almost) Every domicile manager is great. Chief-Pilot is fantastic. Health Insurace is great, 401K is good, and if youíre looking to build time, upgrade quickly and build that PIC time, AWA is great. Iíve been treated really well here as have most people that arenít trouble makers. Problem is people see other airlines and just see more then what AWA can offer. Endevor has great pay, Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy have flow, Republic has good pay and the 175s and Skywest has bases all over the country. AWA, and most of the other regionals just canít offer as much.

joefly
08-04-2018, 03:41 PM
Any chance EWR would ever be a base? AWA doesnít sound bad to me and I like how itís a smaller company but junior manning and commute for me wouldnít be good for family unless we moved to base which I donít want to really do but really appreciate all the info from everyone

bscott58d
08-04-2018, 06:14 PM
A few reasons:

1) We only fly the 200. This is not a big deal for most people, but there is a large group of young pilots that only care about flying the 175. Shiny jet syndrome is real, and for whatever reason some people even make out “engine under wing” time as being more important then normal jet time.

2) Our bases. Flying only in the Midwest and on the East coast, we already lose anyone who wants a west coast base. Furthermore IAD is SUPER senior. ORD is pretty senior already and will only get more senior with displacements. That leaves MKE which is a two leg commute for anyone that doesn’t live in the Chicagoland area (or a one leg commute and a bus ride), and CAE which will be a mostly commuter base with only 2 flights a day from ORD or IAD.

3) Pay/ Career progressment incentives. We could have classes filled in an instant if we went to E9 rates. We could pad our seniority list quickly if we had a flow-through to United. Unfortunately we don’t have either of those options. We can’t get E9 rates because we don’t have the financial backing of a wholly-owned, and we can’t have a flow because United doesn’t have any wholly-owns.

It’s frustrating because AWA is an awesome place to work. (Almost) Every domicile manager is great. Chief-Pilot is fantastic. Health Insurace is great, 401K is good, and if you’re looking to build time, upgrade quickly and build that PIC time, AWA is great. I’ve been treated really well here as have most people that aren’t trouble makers. Problem is people see other airlines and just see more then what AWA can offer. Endevor has great pay, Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy have flow, Republic has good pay and the 175s and Skywest has bases all over the country. AWA, and most of the other regionals just can’t offer as much.

Well I will say this; your response makes me root for the underdog. Not going to finalize where I decide to move until I’ve finished my interview with endeavor and AWA but a lot to consider for sure.

injun21
08-04-2018, 08:40 PM
A few reasons:

1) We only fly the 200. This is not a big deal for most people, but there is a large group of young pilots that only care about flying the 175. Shiny jet syndrome is real, and for whatever reason some people even make out ďengine under wingĒ time as being more important then normal jet time.

2) Our bases. Flying only in the Midwest and on the East coast, we already lose anyone who wants a west coast base. Furthermore IAD is SUPER senior. ORD is pretty senior already and will only get more senior with displacements. That leaves MKE which is a two leg commute for anyone that doesnít live in the Chicagoland area (or a one leg commute and a bus ride), and CAE which will be a mostly commuter base with only 2 flights a day from ORD or IAD.

3) Pay/ Career progressment incentives. We could have classes filled in an instant if we went to E9 rates. We could pad our seniority list quickly if we had a flow-through to United. Unfortunately we donít have either of those options. We canít get E9 rates because we donít have the financial backing of a wholly-owned, and we canít have a flow because United doesnít have any wholly-owns.

Itís frustrating because AWA is an awesome place to work. (Almost) Every domicile manager is great. Chief-Pilot is fantastic. Health Insurace is great, 401K is good, and if youíre looking to build time, upgrade quickly and build that PIC time, AWA is great. Iíve been treated really well here as have most people that arenít trouble makers. Problem is people see other airlines and just see more then what AWA can offer. Endevor has great pay, Piedmont, PSA, and Envoy have flow, Republic has good pay and the 175s and Skywest has bases all over the country. AWA, and most of the other regionals just canít offer as much.


Well written. You make more money at AWAC than E9 and get more guaranteed days off. The pay ďrateĒ is deceiving.

injun21
08-04-2018, 09:02 PM
Couple of things here:

You are not protected because you have a line in MKE or CAE. If they are short pilots, you will be rerouted, junior manned, and you will work on your days off. Junior manning is completely dependent on coverage. While itís true that being in a maintenance base may prevent some instances of junior-manning because of the horrendous schedules, to think youíre ďprotectedĒ is naive.

Being Junior-manned when upgrading to Captain is not ďrite of passageĒ. Itís a weakness in the current contact, and a direct result of short staffing due to an inability to recruit new pilots.

Gotcha, I said protected. I meant being in a maintenance base may prevent.... That in and of itself may or may not be the actual thing preventing crew scheduling from junior-manning me. The schedules at my last airline are comperable to what we have here. Maybe they are horrendous to some and great to others. I guess itís just point of view. The junior manning going on at regional airlines is partially because of all the contracts and a general shortage of pilots. I went on a bunch of interviews and never left without a conditional job offer, nor did I meet any other candidates whom were told they werenít being hired.

Our posts sound different because I have never missed my sonís basketball games or my daughterís swim meets. I have never been junior manned and you have. This would make anyone angry. Itís a normal reaction. If you want to call me names and refer to me as being naive, do so. If thatís what will make you feel better do it. I admit if I had been JMed as much as you, if I missed important things in life as you have, my posts might sound like yours. But I donít sound like you now.

Grumbletrousers
08-05-2018, 05:10 AM
Gotcha, I said protected. I meant being in a maintenance base may prevent.... That in and of itself may or may not be the actual thing preventing crew scheduling from junior-manning me. The schedules at my last airline are comperable to what we have here. Maybe they are horrendous to some and great to others. I guess itís just point of view. The junior manning going on at regional airlines is partially because of all the contracts and a general shortage of pilots. I went on a bunch of interviews and never left without a conditional job offer, nor did I meet any other candidates whom were told they werenít being hired.

Our posts sound different because I have never missed my sonís basketball games or my daughterís swim meets. I have never been junior manned and you have. This would make anyone angry. Itís a normal reaction. If you want to call me names and refer to me as being naive, do so. If thatís what will make you feel better do it. I admit if I had been JMed as much as you, if I missed important things in life as you have, my posts might sound like yours. But I donít sound like you now.

Ease up...Iím not attacking you, Iím trying to point out that no one is safe from junior mans as stipulated by the contract. I misinterpreted about what you meant when you said you were protected from junior-mans. It just frustrates me when people work the line without knowing the contract, because that brings along the opportunity for the company to use you in a manner that union members fought hard to protect. Iím not saying you know less than me or vice-versa, there are still things that Iím learning about the contract, mostly ways the company can bend the grey-areas to conform to their needs. The company could theoretically junior man a pilot down to 4 days off in a month. Thatís wrong. We have to do something about it.

We have to know the current contact and make sure we thoroughly read through any TA or LOA and try to understand the benefits and consequences to ratifying it. But most importantly we all need to stick together and look for improvements for all pilots and not just individuals.

Weíre operating under a contact ratified in 2003 and written years before that. Times have changed and we need a contract that more accurately reflects the times we fly in. Itís my understanding that the company is unable to give us pay raises. Fine. But we can at least try and improve our QOL through a new TA.



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