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Floobs
07-29-2018, 09:12 AM
Tamar Braxton Gets ?Ridiculed By A Pilot For Flying While Black On Delta,? According To Video Posted By Her Sister Towanda | Celebrity Insider (http://celebrityinsider.org/tamar-braxton-gets-ridiculed-by-a-pilot-for-flying-while-black-on-delta-according-to-video-posted-by-her-sister-towanda-174051/)

Why oh why are we still going In the back to talk to disruptive passangers? Stay in the flight deck and to leave. Call someone who is trained to handle it.


EMBFlyer
07-29-2018, 09:19 AM
Tamar Braxton Gets ?Ridiculed By A Pilot For Flying While Black On Delta,? According To Video Posted By Her Sister Towanda | Celebrity Insider (http://celebrityinsider.org/tamar-braxton-gets-ridiculed-by-a-pilot-for-flying-while-black-on-delta-according-to-video-posted-by-her-sister-towanda-174051/)

Why oh why are we still going In the back to talk to disruptive passangers? Stay in the flight deck and to leave. Call someone who is trained to handle it.

Christ, people! Just stay in the damn cockpit (flight deck, whatever the hell you want to call it) and shut the door. You're guaranteed to stay off YouTube, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, etc that way! Let Customer Service handle it. It's not the 1960s anymore!

And...of course, he had his hat.

fadec
07-29-2018, 09:32 AM
Not a race issue. Captain Cartman requires people of all colors to respect his authoriTAY.


Hank Burley
07-29-2018, 09:37 AM
And what preceded that interaction? Was she causing a scene? Did she ask to speak with the captain?? I highly doubt the captain went down the isle looking for the first black woman to harass?

Floobs
07-29-2018, 09:42 AM
And what preceded that interaction? Was she causing a scene? Did she ask to speak with the captain?? I highly doubt the captain went down the isle looking for the first black woman to harass?

There are no shortage of captains out there that shy away from throwing their title around. Especially at Delta.

67Creek
07-29-2018, 09:46 AM
Without the context of the interaction, anyone that's asserting the captain was in the right, or in the wrong, is doing so ignorantly.

Deathwish
07-29-2018, 09:46 AM
Ha, ďMY flight attendants work for me.Ē

EMBFlyer
07-29-2018, 09:52 AM
Without the context of the interaction, anyone that's asserting the captain was in the right, or in the wrong, is doing so ignorantly.

I'm not saying he's right or he's wrong, but we all know how this ends. In this day and age, stay in your seat and shut the cockpit door. Stay the hell off the cameras!

IwasInverted
07-29-2018, 10:00 AM
I agree, donít leave the cockpit, but assuming the passenger was not obeying the fa instructions I have no problem with what he said or how he said it. Definitely nothing racist in that video.

hilltopflyer
07-29-2018, 10:05 AM
I wouldnít go back there just cause of this Iíd juat kick her off the plane. Itís very simple. Tell your ground security person you arenít flying the plane with her on board since she clearly isnít listening to the FAs

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 10:13 AM
There are no shortage of captains out there that shy away from throwing their title around. Especially at Delta.

Are you on drugs? Do you have a clue about what actually happened?

Rama
07-29-2018, 10:20 AM
The captain was wrong for not letting/making the ground staff handle this.
The clock doesn't start until the plane moves or door is closed, so he was working for free.

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 10:26 AM
The captain was wrong for not letting/making the ground staff handle this.
The clock doesn't start until the plane moves or door is closed, so he was working for free.

The Captain is the final authority on if a passengers rides. He is required at Delta to be involved. That is why they are paid 9 or 10 times what a gate agent gets paid. If your flight attendants tell you they have a disruptive passenger who is not following instructions and your answer is I will not get involved your working relationship with the crew is non existent. The gate agent is however going to show up at the cockpit where you are hiding and ask if you want the passenger to remain on board or be removed. What are you going to base your answer on after hiding?

CrispyBacon
07-29-2018, 10:27 AM
"Just another black person making a scene, and acting like they deserve special treatment, then becoming self righteously indignant after being called out for it"

Fixed the title of that article for you

CrispyBacon
07-29-2018, 10:28 AM
The Captain is the final authority on if a passengers rides. He is required at Delta to be involved. That is why they are paid 9 or 10 times what a gate agent gets paid. If your flight attendants tell you they have a disruptive passenger who is not following instructions and your answer is I will not get involved your working relationship with the crew is non existent. The gate agent is however going to show up at the cockpit where you are hiding and ask if you want the passenger to remain on board or be removed. What are you going to base your answer on after hiding?

No he is required to call for a red coat to deal with disruptive passengers. Getting involved is NOT his job at Delta

hilltopflyer
07-29-2018, 10:36 AM
"Just another black person making a scene, and acting like they deserve special treatment, then becoming self righteously indignant after being called out for it"

Fixed the title of that article for you
So true. EVERY thing is about race now a days. I doubt the captain at Delta airlines of all places would make it a point to single someone out just because they were being black. If said individual just behaved like a civilized human being I doubt the captain woulda said anything.

jcountry
07-29-2018, 10:47 AM
Tamar Braxton Gets ?Ridiculed By A Pilot For Flying While Black On Delta,? According To Video Posted By Her Sister Towanda | Celebrity Insider (http://celebrityinsider.org/tamar-braxton-gets-ridiculed-by-a-pilot-for-flying-while-black-on-delta-according-to-video-posted-by-her-sister-towanda-174051/)

Why oh why are we still going In the back to talk to disruptive passangers? Stay in the flight deck and to leave. Call someone who is trained to handle it.

Never have done that. Never will.

Didnít do it before cellphone cams, certainly not about to start now.

jcountry
07-29-2018, 10:51 AM
Without the context of the interaction, anyone that's asserting the captain was in the right, or in the wrong, is doing so ignorantly.

Thatís a very important point .

These clips are always posted without context. There is no way this ever comes out good for the crew.

Our airline tells us to get someone trained to deal with the situation. I would imagine his does too. Bet capt gets to do a little carpet dance.

Captainís authority doesnít mean the authority to be a dumbass.

disco inferno
07-29-2018, 11:01 AM
Just another entitled millennial gibbs me dat looking for a payday and 15 minutes of fame.

Qotsaautopilot
07-29-2018, 11:06 AM
The Captain is the final authority on if a passengers rides. He is required at Delta to be involved. That is why they are paid 9 or 10 times what a gate agent gets paid. If your flight attendants tell you they have a disruptive passenger who is not following instructions and your answer is I will not get involved your working relationship with the crew is non existent. The gate agent is however going to show up at the cockpit where you are hiding and ask if you want the passenger to remain on board or be removed. What are you going to base your answer on after hiding?

True to some extent.

1. Get story from flight attendant
2. Assuming the flight attendant isnít on a power trip and inflaming an otherwise benign situation, call ops for a supervisor to remove a pax on behalf of the pic.
3. Ops confirms seat number or supervisor pokes head in Flight deck to confirm when they arrive.
4. Supervisor removes pax while you continue your preflight duties
5. If pax refuses to leave then supervisor calls LE or pokes in again and asks if youíll call for them.

At no point do you need to engage the pax.

If during step one if you are 99% sure from hearing the FAs story that itís probably the FA that is the problem you can try to diffuse them in the Flight deck. If they donít yield speak to another FA and get a second account. If it corroborates the story from the fist FA then proceed with step 2. If the story from the second FA does not match the first then try to diffuse the first one again. If they do not then offer for them to be replaced. Only go down that road if you are absolutely sure the FA is probably the problem. Otherwise take their word for it and have the pax removed. There is no point where this requires engaging the pax

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 11:13 AM
I agree with Qots.

My job is to fly the plane. I have not gone through the hours and days of touchy-feely training that the airline conflict officers have been through. I leave all that work up to them.

I donít move bags from the cart to the cargo bin.

I donít fix a failed igniter.

I donít fuel the airplane.

I fly the plane. When the airplane is ready to leave, let me know and Iíll do my job.

Floobs
07-29-2018, 11:16 AM
I agree, don’t leave the cockpit, but assuming the passenger was not obeying the fa instructions I have no problem with what he said or how he said it. Definitely nothing racist in that video.

And then you'll end up on YouTube.

It's 2018, in this climate there is no reason for any pilot ever to leave his seat to deal with a passenger on the ground. It's not our job, it's not our responsibility and we certainly aren't trained to. There are however people whom are and they should be the ones that deal with these things.

Air Stang 7
07-29-2018, 11:35 AM
Some pilots like the internet exposure though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI-ONN1yfVA

Any thoughts on how this could bode for one's career? I'm personally not criticizing this guy but it doesn't seem wise.

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 12:10 PM
No he is required to call for a red coat to deal with disruptive passengers. Getting involved is NOT his job at Delta

I gather you donít work at Delta. If you do I would review your procedures. The first line in those procedures states the Captain will make the final decision on the removal of any passenger.
You will also find redcoats only at the larger domestic stations.

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 12:12 PM
And then you'll end up on YouTube.

It's 2018, in this climate there is no reason for any pilot ever to leave his seat to deal with a passenger on the ground. It's not our job, it's not our responsibility and we certainly aren't trained to. There are however people whom are and they should be the ones that deal with these things.

Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 12:15 PM
I agree with Qots.

My job is to fly the plane. I have not gone through the hours and days of touchy-feely training that the airline conflict officers have been through. I leave all that work up to them.

I donít move bags from the cart to the cargo bin.

I donít fix a failed igniter.

I donít fuel the airplane.

I fly the plane. When the airplane is ready to leave, let me know and Iíll do my job.

I gather you donít read the logbook or do preflight inspections either. Thatís maintenances area of responsibility.

Milk Man
07-29-2018, 12:22 PM
I gather you donít work at Delta. If you do I would review your procedures. The first line in those procedures states the Captain will make the final decision on the removal of any passenger.
You will also find redcoats only at the larger domestic stations.


He is correct and you are correct. CA does have final decision, but the CRO should be called BEFORE CA makes final decision.

Mesabah
07-29-2018, 12:22 PM
I thought the captain handled himself well here. The captain is the inflight security coordinator not the CRO, and if she wants to fly, must obey orders delegated from him. He's simply giving her a stern warning if she wants to continue on the flight, which she was allowed to. Total nothing-burger...

Silver02ex
07-29-2018, 12:34 PM
Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

So when there's an issue with a passenger at the gate. It's the Captain's job to go deal with the passenger directly? I don't know about you, but I can still have the rest of my crew involved, along with having a passenger removed, without leaving my seat. This is why there are GSC (at the gate) and supervisors to deal with passengers at the gate. You can still be a Captain and having the final say if a passenger stays on or get off, but confronting the passengers directly is something I wouldn't do.

Qotsaautopilot
07-29-2018, 12:42 PM
Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

The captain has the final authority at every airline. I can make that call without engaging the pax. I make the decision. GSC enforces that decision.

Btw I have zero issue with this captain’s words and I have no idea why it became a race issue. I can tell you he wouldn’t be on the Internet if he hadn’t gone back there.

HuskerAv8tor
07-29-2018, 12:43 PM
The CA was firm and professional. Instead of just kicking her off, he gave her a way to stay on and make the flight. We live in an age where a simple well worded admonishment to behave can’t be handled.

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 12:44 PM
So when there's an issue with a passenger at the gate. It's the Captain's job to go deal with the passenger directly? I don't know about you, but I can still have the rest of my crew involved, along with having a passenger removed, without leaving my seat. This is why there are GSC (at the gate) and supervisors to deal with passengers at the gate. You can still be a Captain and having the final say if a passenger stays on or get off, but confronting the passengers directly is something I wouldn't do.

Having been involved in several of these incidents in the last 3 years the first question you will be asked once everyone is conferenced in is what was the demeanor of the passenger when you spoke to them Captain?

jDSTJD
07-29-2018, 12:46 PM
"Just another black person making a scene, and acting like they deserve special treatment, then becoming self righteously indignant after being called out for it"

Fixed the title of that article for you

I'm sorry but this is awful. Yes it is true that these recent news stories about black passengers acting rediculous on flights, and the fact that the stories keep happening it seems one after another, does not make "us" (black people/African Americans, whichever you want to pick) look good, this doesn't mean that there are only black people acting loony on flights and having to have flight crews take remedial action. The conflicts involving non-black crazies just don't appear to be as newsworthy because of the sensationalism race related incidents. So it gives the impression that it's just "blacks acting self righteously indignant after being called out for it". I cringe when I see this stuff because it looks bad but the condescending way you posted this is, in my opinion, beneath the intelligence and professional stature that I admire(d) you all for.

Floobs
07-29-2018, 12:54 PM
Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

Fine, but why does that require the captain to leave his seat?

Qotsaautopilot
07-29-2018, 12:55 PM
Having been involved in several of these incidents in the last 3 years the first question you will be asked once everyone is conferenced in is what was the demeanor of the passenger when you spoke to them Captain?

Removed multiple people. People just donít know how to act when leaving Vegas I guess. Never been asked about it by anyone

sailingfun
07-29-2018, 01:10 PM
Fine, but why does that require the captain to leave his seat?

To make a intelligent and educated choice on if the passenger needs to be deplaned.

EMBFlyer
07-29-2018, 01:12 PM
We're all missing one thing. If she'd have had Captain George, callsign Hollywood, this never would have happened. In all her travels, he would be EXACTLY the Captain that she has been looking for.

Silver02ex
07-29-2018, 01:14 PM
Having been involved in several of these incidents in the last 3 years the first question you will be asked once everyone is conferenced in is what was the demeanor of the passenger when you spoke to them Captain?


A late flight on Friday to Vegas from the east coast is always a guarantee to have issues with passengers, so i've seen many. Our job (where I work) is to call the CRO and have them deal with the passengers. If they need my final judgement then i'll give it, after talking to the flight attendants and CRO. There's nothing that states I have to deal with the passengers directly. Why would anyone ask me about the demeanor of the passengers when I wasn't the one that was involved with the passenger directly?:confused:

Slaphappy
07-29-2018, 01:19 PM
I'm sorry but this is awful. Yes it is true that these recent news stories about black passengers acting rediculous on flights, and the fact that the stories keep happening it seems one after another, does not make "us" (black people/African Americans, whichever you want to pick) look good, this doesn't mean that there are only black people acting loony on flights and having to have flight crews take remedial action. The conflicts involving non-black crazies just don't appear to be as newsworthy because of the sensationalism race related incidents. So it gives the impression that it's just "blacks acting self righteously indignant after being called out for it". I cringe when I see this stuff because it looks bad but the condescending way you posted this is, in my opinion, beneath the intelligence and professional stature that I admire(d) you all for.

This was made about race, the title of the article was saying that she was thrown off because she was "flying while black" has nothing to do with that. This is happening more and more these days. People are using their race to turn this around on others.

RJSAviator76
07-29-2018, 01:23 PM
The CA was firm and professional. Instead of just kicking her off, he gave her a way to stay on and make the flight. We live in an age where a simple well worded admonishment to behave canít be handled.

^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS x 100000000000!

I'm OK with what this captain did. He probably didn't wanna bother filling out paperwork, so a simple stroll down the aisle.

How friggin' difficult is it to follow instructions??!

John Carr
07-29-2018, 01:33 PM
I'm sorry but this is awful. Yes it is true that these recent news stories about black passengers acting rediculous on flights, and the fact that the stories keep happening it seems one after another, does not make "us" (black people/African Americans, whichever you want to pick) look good, this doesn't mean that there are only black people acting loony on flights and having to have flight crews take remedial action. The conflicts involving non-black crazies just don't appear to be as newsworthy because of the sensationalism race related incidents. So it gives the impression that it's just "blacks acting self righteously indignant after being called out for it". I cringe when I see this stuff because it looks bad but the condescending way you posted this is, in my opinion, beneath the intelligence and professional stature that I admire(d) you all for.

You can broaden that out. Take a look at the people that go ďliveĒ, post a tweet/FB interaction with a LEO and how it was completely about race and most traumatic/stressful event theyíve ever been through. All the typical people get involved, saying what an injustice it was and how the poor person feared for their life over a simple traffic stop.

And then the local PD releases the badge/dash cam video and itís NOTHING out of the ordinary. This poor person that racially profiled was in fear for their life and throught they were gonna get shot by a white/racist cop turns out to be nothing, NOTHING.

Then before you know it, the social media ďoutrageĒ from the experts gets pulled, etc.

Itís not about driving or flying ďwhile blackĒ, itís about driving/flying while being a dumb a$$ thatís spring loaded to play the race card and NOT accept any responsibility for ones actions.

Itís NOT about race. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

We're all missing one thing. If she'd have had Captain George, callsign Hollywood, this never would have happened. In all her travels, he would be EXACTLY the Captain that she has been looking for.

Captainnnn Georrrrrrrrg-ah.

jDSTJD
07-29-2018, 01:33 PM
This was made about race, the title of the article was saying that she was thrown off because she was "flying while black" has nothing to do with that. This is happening more and more these days. People are using their race to turn this around on others.

Yes I get what you're saying but it was Tamar's sister who put the incident in the context of race and the article took on that spin. My point is that regardless of the spin put on it by a third party, it's up to others who should know better to draw the distinction between media sensationalism and reality...or at least be more objective. Is it you all's reality after flying for multiple years, some even decades, that only black people act indignant and beligerant to the extent that they must be thrown off planes? If not, why buy into this crap? I just found it offensive and disappointing that the person I quoted took that particular attitude.

CrispyBacon
07-29-2018, 01:40 PM
Yes I get what you're saying but it was Tamar's sister who put the incident in the context of race and the article took on that spin. My point is that regardless of the spin put on it by a third party, it's up to others who should know better to draw the distinction between media sensationalism and reality...or at least be more objective. Is it you all's reality after flying for multiple years, some even decades, that only black people act indignant and beligerant to the extent that they must be thrown off planes? If not, why buy into this crap? I just found it offensive and disappointing that the person I quoted took that particular attitude.

Sounds to me like your just a black apologist. This "story" was made racial from the beginning. I didn't do that. And I am sick of blacks making "offensive and disappointing" quotes, news stories and titles and then sitting on a high horse. These women and the news staff are the racists here. plain and simple.

rickair7777
07-29-2018, 01:50 PM
I agree, don’t leave the cockpit, but assuming the passenger was not obeying the fa instructions I have no problem with what he said or how he said it. Definitely nothing racist in that video.

In the old days, yes. Pax gets where she's going and maybe learned a lesson about how to behave in a manner conducive to the smooth functioning of society. Problem solved, BTDT.

rickair7777
07-29-2018, 01:52 PM
I wouldnít go back there just cause of this Iíd juat kick her off the plane. Itís very simple. Tell your ground security person you arenít flying the plane with her on board since she clearly isnít listening to the FAs

Today, this is the right answer. Pax learns a lesson but unfortunately doesn't get where she's going. Maybe next time.

That said, CA dude may have been senior enough to not give a rip (ie able to retire to his satisfaction later this week if necessary)..

IwasInverted
07-29-2018, 02:00 PM
And then you'll end up on YouTube.

It's 2018, in this climate there is no reason for any pilot ever to leave his seat to deal with a passenger on the ground. It's not our job, it's not our responsibility and we certainly aren't trained to. There are however people whom are and they should be the ones that deal with these things.

I know reading is hard but I said not to leave the cockpit, I was referring to the article bring up race and I didnít get that at all from anything in the video.

Slaphappy
07-29-2018, 02:05 PM
Yes I get what you're saying but it was Tamar's sister who put the incident in the context of race and the article took on that spin. My point is that regardless of the spin put on it by a third party, it's up to others who should know better to draw the distinction between media sensationalism and reality...or at least be more objective. Is it you all's reality after flying for multiple years, some even decades, that only black people act indignant and beligerant to the extent that they must be thrown off planes? If not, why buy into this crap? I just found it offensive and disappointing that the person I quoted took that particular attitude.

As of late it seems that black people are portrayed as victims in the media regardless if they are or not more than in a negative light in this situations.

Just look at the random killing of the woman in the bart station in oakland, the guy that killed her was some strung out drug addict and habitual felon who for no other reason decided he wanted to kill and happened to pick her as a target. Yet the media presents it as an attack on black america by a typical trump supporting white man and there is zero indication of that, in fact the evidence we've seen shows us he's just a random criminal.

Flytolive
07-29-2018, 02:08 PM
As of late it seems that black people are portrayed as victims in the media regardless if they are or not more than in a negative light in this situations.Really? Can you give us some other examples?

Glenntilton
07-29-2018, 02:10 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

Did you read the rest of his post?

Flytolive
07-29-2018, 02:13 PM
Did you read the rest of his post?Yes, I did.

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:35 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/26/bart-stabbing-protests-at-ktvu-over-use-of-racist-photo/ (https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/26/bart-stabbing-protests-at-ktvu-over-use-of-racist-photo/)

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:37 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2018/07/anne-hathaway-checks-white-privilege-in-powerful-post-about-nia-wilson (https://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2018/07/anne-hathaway-checks-white-privilege-in-powerful-post-about-nia-wilson)

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:43 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.wishtv.com/national/man-confronts-sean-spicer-at-book-signing-accuses-him-of-using-racist-language-in-past/1331882022 (https://www.wishtv.com/national/man-confronts-sean-spicer-at-book-signing-accuses-him-of-using-racist-language-in-past/1331882022)

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:46 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.insideedition.com/black-men-center-starbucks-arrest-controversy-tell-their-story-there-was-no-reasoning-42606 (https://www.insideedition.com/black-men-center-starbucks-arrest-controversy-tell-their-story-there-was-no-reasoning-42606)

Name User
07-29-2018, 03:48 PM
While we don't know what the pax did there is zero reason in a customer service business to humiliate a customer in front of all those other passengers. Total bad call going back there. If that truly is Delta procedure I would expect it to change sooner or later.

And yes of course this is race baiting, that will never go away unless the NAACP is against it. It just delegitimizes their agenda, IMO. I think it's no joke that racial bias exists (mostly for blacks) but making everything about race when many times it's not is the same as crying wolf. Eventually people roll their eyes and dismiss legitimate concerns.

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:49 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.reddeerexpress.com/news/breaking-actor-victim-of-alleged-racist-attack-at-red-deer-restaurant/ (https://www.reddeerexpress.com/news/breaking-actor-victim-of-alleged-racist-attack-at-red-deer-restaurant/)

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:51 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

http://https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/learning/is-this-ad-racist.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/10/learning/is-this-ad-racist.html)

FMGEC
07-29-2018, 03:51 PM
Really? Can you give us some other examples?

Anything Spike Lee says as well.

jcountry
07-29-2018, 03:55 PM
Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

Making the final decision doesnít involve going to the back and talking to anyone.

You go there if you want, by ass is not going anywhere near any conflicts.

jDSTJD
07-29-2018, 04:42 PM
Sounds to me like your just a black apologist. This "story" was made racial from the beginning. I didn't do that. And I am sick of blacks making "offensive and disappointing" quotes, news stories and titles and then sitting on a high horse. These women and the news staff are the racists here. plain and simple.

What?? How did anything I said make me a black apologist? I donít even know what that means. If you actually read what I said you will see that most of what I said was in agreement that the behavior of a lot of the people in these stories is redicilous and I do not support the claims of racism. Or thatís what I thought I wa saying. I donít remember at this point. But in any event, all Iím trying to say is that regardless of the stories that are repeatedly on the news highlighting these racism claims when black people have these encounters people with sense should be able to decipher between that garbage and the reality of what happens everyday on flights across the country which is that the vast majority of the time blacks people arenít acting any more belligerent than anyone else but it is these incidents that make the news because of the racism component which is intended to have the clear effect it is having on people like you. I just think you should not let yourself get as ****ed as you are about it. I also donít think your post changing the title of the thread was necessary since the article clearly showed that it was some other person making the claim, Tamars Sister, not even her or the articles author! But whatever. The last thing I want or need is to have an argument online with an anonymous person whom I will never meet. I just hope that your animous toward blacks based on you being so ďsick of usĒ doesnít carry out into your treatment of us in public when youíre flying and interacting with the public.

BMEP100
07-29-2018, 05:59 PM
The Captain is the final authority on if a passengers rides. He is required at Delta to be involved. That is why they are paid 9 or 10 times what a gate agent gets paid. If your flight attendants tell you they have a disruptive passenger who is not following instructions and your answer is I will not get involved your working relationship with the crew is non existent. The gate agent is however going to show up at the cockpit where you are hiding and ask if you want the passenger to remain on board or be removed. What are you going to base your answer on after hiding?

says the, Future you toob star.

1900luxuryliner
07-29-2018, 07:00 PM
Each airline may have different procedures. At Delta it is the Captains job and he is required to make the final decision on the carriage of any passenger.

Itís also the Captainís job to ensure proper loading and weight and balance of the aircraft. Do you go down with the rampers and help throw bags? Thereís such a thing as delegation of duties, believe it, or not.

1900luxuryliner
07-29-2018, 07:21 PM
If you had an interview question of: ďIf an unruly passenger was creating problems, and not listening to flight attendants, how would you handle it?Ē Do you really believe the correct answer is, ďI would go back and take matters into my own hands, up to, and including a citizenís arrest and physical restraint.Ē Come on, think!

BobbyLeeSwagger
07-29-2018, 09:33 PM
I think the Captain made a big mistake by not fist pumping with her at the end. If at the end he'd been like "aight, put it there 👊" it would have been all good. :cool:

Ray Red
07-29-2018, 09:35 PM
If there is a pax issue that needs to be addressed in the cabin ask yourself what the best outcome would be if you leave the cockpit and what the worst outcome would be. How about the same questions if you stay in the cockpit and expand your team and coordinate with people that are trained in this type of stuff.

Knowing that if you go back it WILL be on YouTube should make the decision very easy.

Rama
07-29-2018, 09:40 PM
While the captain is ultimately responsible for everything, it certainly does not mean micromanaging. The mechanics, loaders, gate agents, dispatchers, etc. do their job as trained.
The flight crew in the post 9/11 world should not leave the cockpit.
Social media is just another avenue to paint the crew or anyone else in a bad light.

Myfingershurt
07-29-2018, 10:12 PM
That guy is one of the most chill captains Iíve flown with. Mustíve been something pretty rough going on for him to leave his seat.

Fr8Thrust
07-29-2018, 11:54 PM
Anyone else get a chuckle that he brought his hat with him?

jcountry
07-29-2018, 11:55 PM
Anyone else get a chuckle that he brought his hat with him?

Yep.

Itís the Hat of Power!

(Probably wears it to K Mart on his off days.)

Heard a good story relative to the hat:

Former NWA pilot walking down the hall. No hat....
CP sees him and makes a beeline across the hall

ďHey, capt-whereís your hat?Ē

ďIn my bag...Ē

ďWhy arenít you wearing it?Ē

ďItís too small for my head.Ē

ďWhy donít you get a new one?Ē

ďBecause it would be too big for my bag.Ē

Turns around and walks off ;)

sflpilot
07-30-2018, 03:47 AM
I would love to see her reaction if after her misbehavior the CA who comes back to deal with her is one of the many professional black CAís at DL. She probably wouldnít be able to get out of her seat to leave the flight. Skin color doesnít determine how you conduct yourself. At a minimum there would have been no video.

CBreezy
07-30-2018, 03:55 AM
This article is such a non-event that it rightfully showed up on a non-news click bait site.

KSwift76
07-30-2018, 04:05 AM
What?? How did anything I said make me a black apologist? I donít even know what that means. If you actually read what I said you will see that most of what I said was in agreement that the behavior of a lot of the people in these stories is redicilous and I do not support the claims of racism. Or thatís what I thought I wa saying. I donít remember at this point. But in any event, all Iím trying to say is that regardless of the stories that are repeatedly on the news highlighting these racism claims when black people have these encounters people with sense should be able to decipher between that garbage and the reality of what happens everyday on flights across the country which is that the vast majority of the time blacks people arenít acting any more belligerent than anyone else but it is these incidents that make the news because of the racism component which is intended to have the clear effect it is having on people like you. I just think you should not let yourself get as ****ed as you are about it. I also donít think your post changing the title of the thread was necessary since the article clearly showed that it was some other person making the claim, Tamars Sister, not even her or the articles author! But whatever. The last thing I want or need is to have an argument online with an anonymous person whom I will never meet. I just hope that your animous toward blacks based on you being so ďsick of usĒ doesnít carry out into your treatment of us in public when youíre flying and interacting with the public.

Save your energy. I went about 7 pages on here awhile back just trying to explain that despite the fact we just had a Black President and "technically" we all have equal opportunities, that oftentimes Black folks are still struggling to make fair equal headway in this country due to systemic biases that have been in place for years. You will never convince someone who does not want to be convinced regardless of you insisting and knowing for an absolute personal fact that we have these types of issues in this country.

Based in this video, he was extremely condescending and I may talk to a child like that, but certainly not an adult. To be fair, he probably would have spoken like that to anyone, Black or White. It was condescending and if she was triggered to believe that race was involved the dynamic of White man in power vs. Black female and the historical context of that should be considered. Had someone spoken to my wife or daughter like that we would have a problem (granted we don't know what transpired and my family knows how to act in public).

And a little more context, I'm Black and a Captain for a major airline...save your time and energy...Fox news is STRONG in the cockpit of most airliners!

crewdawg
07-30-2018, 04:36 AM
Am I the only one who has no idea who this lady is? Either way, the person who posted this video is clearly race baiting.

I've been the FO on flights with pax issues and I've never see it so bad that a Captain had to go to the back and deal with it directly. If he was back there, I'm inclined to believe that she was not listening to the FAs. I have however been in the back as a pax, before I was an airline pilot, where someone was causing a scene with the FAs. Then when the Captain came back was all compliant and saying she did nothing wrong, etc... To be honest, we were all hoping he'd toss her off. Phone cameras weren't a big thing yet.

That said, CA dude may have been senior enough to not give a rip (ie able to retire to his satisfaction later this week if necessary)..

Then again, there is nothing in this video that is even remotely close to a fireable offense.

I think the Captain made a big mistake by not fist pumping with her at the end. If at the end he'd been like "aight, put it there 👊" it would have been all good. :cool:

:D I love this! But what if she had left him hanging...then it's just awkward and then he'd be accused of being even further "uncool."

If there is a pax issue that needs to be addressed in the cabin ask yourself what the best outcome would be if you leave the cockpit and what the worst outcome would be. How about the same questions if you stay in the cockpit and expand your team and coordinate with people that are trained in this type of stuff.

Knowing that if you go back it WILL be on YouTube should make the decision very easy.

This is like doing flybys, especially big primetime events, in the AF. AT BEST, you did your job correctly, hit the TOT and noone says a thing. At worst you lose your wings. The "in between" is missing the TOT because ATC calls out a random bug smasher, or the band plays at half speed, the singer sings 2x faster than stated, both started late, etc.... Zero sum game! Just be the ground guy, take pictures with the cheerleaders, stand on the sidelines and take all the glory.


Based in this video, he was extremely condescending and I may talk to a child like that, but certainly not an adult. To be fair, he probably would have spoken like that to anyone, Black or White. It was condescending and if she was triggered to believe that race was involved the dynamic of White man in power vs. Black female and the historical context of that should be considered. Had someone spoken to my wife or daughter like that we would have a problem (granted we don't know what transpired and my family knows how to act in public).

Your last sentence says it all....your family knows how to act in public, thus wouldn't be in this situation. For a Captain to come back and talk to her leads me to believe that she does not. If someone is acting like a child then speak to them like one, if they're acting like an adult he likely wouldn't be back there.

Brillo
07-30-2018, 04:50 AM
This article is such a non-event that it rightfully showed up on a non-news click bait site.

Exactly. We should stop calling this a news story. This isnít CNN or the WSJ reporting this. The article is from the celebrityinsider, and consists of the writer quoting her friendís Twitter post and then three or four of the reaction comments to it.

Letís just let it die. Absolutely not worth the aggravation.

John Carr
07-30-2018, 04:55 AM
Am I the only one who has no idea who this lady is?

No clue. But as long as the race issue is brought up, it doesnít matter who she or her sister is.

:D I love this! But what if she had left him hanging...then it's just awkward and then he'd be accused of being even further "uncool."

https://youtu.be/N9qYF9DZPdw

KSwift76
07-30-2018, 05:23 AM
Am I the only one who has no idea who this lady is? Either way, the person who posted this video is clearly race baiting.

I've been the FO on flights with pax issues and I've never see it so bad that a Captain had to go to the back and deal with it directly. If he was back there, I'm inclined to believe that she was not listening to the FAs. I have however been in the back as a pax, before I was an airline pilot, where someone was causing a scene with the FAs. Then when the Captain came back was all compliant and saying she did nothing wrong, etc... To be honest, we were all hoping he'd toss her off. Phone cameras weren't a big thing yet.



Then again, there is nothing in this video that is even remotely close to a fireable offense.



:D I love this! But what if she had left him hanging...then it's just awkward and then he'd be accused of being even further "uncool."



This is like doing flybys, especially big primetime events, in the AF. AT BEST, you did your job correctly, hit the TOT and noone says a thing. At worst you lose your wings. The "in between" is missing the TOT because ATC calls out a random bug smasher, or the band plays at half speed, the singer sings 2x faster than stated, both started late, etc.... Zero sum game! Just be the ground guy, take pictures with the cheerleaders, stand on the sidelines and take all the glory.



Your last sentence says it all....your family knows how to act in public, thus wouldn't be in this situation. For a Captain to come back and talk to her leads me to believe that she does not. If someone is acting like a child then speak to them like one, if they're acting like an adult he likely wouldn't be back there.

If it is that bad that he felt the need to go back and speak to anyone in that tone... and the aircraft is still at the gate, the agent,CSO,GSC redcoat...or whatever your airline calls it should handle it. Yeah Yeah Yeah...I get it, you're the the Captain and all but... I'm the in flight security coordinator. We have ground security coordinators for issues at the gate.

And while I don't know their finances(they appeared to be in coach), there's a good chance the make considerably more than all of us if they are on reality TV. Her sister's music was great. Not to keen on her though and would not recognize her if she rang my door bell. I think she is pretty popular though with young to youngish Black folks. I'm Black but a little out of that age range or care. I've heard of her though and she is famousish😀.

crewdawg
07-30-2018, 06:22 AM
If it is that bad that he felt the need to go back and speak to anyone in that tone... and the aircraft is still at the gate, the agent,CSO,GSC redcoat...or whatever your airline calls it should handle it. Yeah Yeah Yeah...I get it, you're the the Captain and all but... I'm the in flight security coordinator. We have ground security coordinators for issues at the gate.

I actually agree with this and that's probably how I would have handled it...I don't be paid to be a internet sensation. But honestly, there is nothing wrong with what he did. Like I said before, even the way he talked to her was fine if she was acting like a child. Someone else posted on here, and I agree that we've come to the day where many have no respect for any authority and can't even take the least bit of a stern scolding without it being considered an "attack."

Honestly, I think anyone who has to address a pax in a situation such as this (Capt, CRO, anyone), should throw on a body cam like cops. That way when idiots like this throw up a "sensational attack" video, the company can counter with the rest of the story.


And while I don't know their finances(they appeared to be in coach), there's a good chance the make considerably more than all of us if they are on reality TV. Her sister's music was great. Not to keen on her though and would not recognize her if she rang my door bell. I think she is pretty popular though with young to youngish Black folks. I'm Black but a little out of that age range or care. I've heard of her though and she is famousish😀.

LOL ya, I googled her. The headlines I found make me even more suspect of her. ...fired from a talk show for effectively being a PITA.

ShyGuy
07-30-2018, 07:33 AM
Now there is a news article about an airline where a gay couple was separated in order to seat a straight couple together :rolleyes:

tomgoodman
07-30-2018, 07:41 AM
Heard a good story relative to the hat:

Former NWA pilot walking down the hall. No hat....
CP sees him and makes a beeline across the hall

ďHey, capt-whereís your hat?Ē

ďIn my bag...Ē

ďWhy arenít you wearing it?Ē

ďItís too small for my head.Ē

ďWhy donít you get a new one?Ē

ďBecause it would be too big for my bag.Ē

Turns around and walks off ;)

That story was being told long before the NWA merger, but you omitted the last line:

ďDonít worry about the hat for two weeks. You wonít need it.Ē :D

SpeedyVagabond
07-30-2018, 08:27 AM
"Just another black person making a scene, and acting like they deserve special treatment, then becoming self righteously indignant after being called out for it"k

Fixed the title of that article for you

Iím inclined to believe this is what happened as well. Iíve seen this play out a few times while non-reving or deadheading in the back. I think itís silly that either pilot canít go into the cabin to defuse a situation but nonetheless the world we live in is cell phone recorded. Despite having done the right thing and talking to passengers in the past, now Iíll just keep the door closed until the agent/supervisor/law enforcement officer shows up and they can deal with it. Iíve had no training from any of my aviation employers on how to deal with a-holes so Iíll let the experts remove them from my cabin.

jcountry
07-30-2018, 08:32 AM
Exactly. We should stop calling this a news story. This isnít CNN or the WSJ reporting this. The article is from the celebrityinsider, and consists of the writer quoting her friendís Twitter post and then three or four of the reaction comments to it.

Letís just let it die. Absolutely not worth the aggravation.

Good point.

And I wouldnít be surprised if some writers were paid by her (or her publicist) to put this stuff out there.

dawgdriver
07-30-2018, 10:49 AM
Who cares?!?

9 full pages of drama...couldn't get past the first few.

Slow news day I suppose. Moving on...

at6d
07-30-2018, 05:42 PM
Didnít
Even
Leave
The
Airport

rickair7777
07-30-2018, 06:19 PM
Save your energy. I went about 7 pages on here awhile back just trying to explain that despite the fact we just had a Black President and "technically" we all have equal opportunities, that oftentimes Black folks are still struggling to make fair equal headway in this country due to systemic biases that have been in place for years. You will never convince someone who does not want to be convinced regardless of you insisting and knowing for an absolute personal fact that we have these types of issues in this country.

Based in this video, he was extremely condescending and I may talk to a child like that, but certainly not an adult. To be fair, he probably would have spoken like that to anyone, Black or White. It was condescending and if she was triggered to believe that race was involved the dynamic of White man in power vs. Black female and the historical context of that should be considered. Had someone spoken to my wife or daughter like that we would have a problem (granted we don't know what transpired and my family knows how to act in public).

And a little more context, I'm Black and a Captain for a major airline...save your time and energy...Fox news is STRONG in the cockpit of most airliners!

Thanks for the constructive feedback. While many of us are pretty tired of some issues getting hyper-inflated and politicized (with an overt statement or implication that it's somehow my fault or I owe someone), most normal folks do understand there are issues and are willing to hear about it and discuss it. I personally don't want anyone to feel out of place in our society just because of their heritage or race.

vessbot
07-30-2018, 08:28 PM
"Black apologist"

WTF

WHACKMASTER
07-30-2018, 09:12 PM
Sounds to me like your just a black apologist. This "story" was made racial from the beginning. I didn't do that. And I am sick of blacks making "offensive and disappointing" quotes, news stories and titles and then sitting on a high horse. These women and the news staff are the racists here. plain and simple.

Bingfuc7inggo!!!!!

at6d
07-31-2018, 12:14 AM
Thanks for the constructive feedback. While many of us are pretty tired of some issues getting hyper-inflated and politicized (with an overt statement or implication that it's somehow my fault or I owe someone), most normal folks do understand there are issues and are willing to hear about it and discuss it. I personally don't want anyone to feel out of place in our society just because of their heritage or race.

And thatís a good point. I think the majority of us in the middle of the political spectrum (I.e. not the left or right fringe) would gladly leave the fringes aside and have a constructive conversation. Debate and meeting at a common ground is imperative to a successful democratic republic. Unfortunately, constructive conversation has been trampled over by absolutists of the left and right. We also only have a very short context of the total event in this case...obviously there are three or more sides to this story.

hilltopflyer
07-31-2018, 06:37 PM
And thatís a good point. I think the majority of us in the middle of the political spectrum (I.e. not the left or right fringe) would gladly leave the fringes aside and have a constructive conversation. Debate and meeting at a common ground is imperative to a successful democratic republic. Unfortunately, constructive conversation has been trampled over by absolutists of the left and right. We also only have a very short context of the total event in this case...obviously there are three or more sides to this story.

Makes me wish we had more than two big political parties. Iím right leaning but the extremes of each party (last presidential election) are screwing this country

NeverHome
08-01-2018, 05:59 AM
Hmmmmm watched the video. Honestly, despite what is in the ďmanualsĒ I agree that it is best to stay in the flight deck. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

I suspect the CA will come out A-Okay, if to the media he comes out as 110% homosexual male. Yup, grindr certified, 2 toe painted, red white and blue (yellow, green, pink, etc), gay.

In the minority wars, it will move him from target to untouchable. Not saying this is right, but in todayís irrational environment of politics, its a sure fire way to escape the boiling waters :D

rickair7777
08-01-2018, 06:27 AM
Hmmmmm watched the video. Honestly, despite what is in the ďmanualsĒ I agree that it is best to stay in the flight deck. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

I suspect the CA will come out A-Okay, if to the media he comes out as 110% homosexual male. Yup, grindr certified, 2 toe painted, red white and blue (yellow, green, pink, etc), gay.


And there would be no possible way to refute his assertion either! Married, three kids, two grandkids, deacon in the church? None of that matters as long he feels just a little gay, or at least questioning...

full of luv
08-01-2018, 07:15 AM
And there would be no possible way to refute his assertion either! Married, three kids, two grandkids, deacon in the church? None of that matters as long he feels just a little gay, or at least questioning...

There was a story a week ago about a law in Canada that says a trans-gendered must be treated as the gender they claim regardless of plumbing.
Well a twenty-something male told his car insurance company he was identifying as female to save almost $1400 every 6 months on his/her car insurance.
Insurance company balked and now we have a full fledged gender court case.

rickair7777
08-01-2018, 07:30 AM
There was a story a week ago about a law in Canada that says a trans-gendered must be treated as the gender they claim regardless of plumbing.
Well a twenty-something male told his car insurance company he was identifying as female to save almost $1400 every 6 months on his/her car insurance.
Insurance company balked and now we have a full fledged gender court case.


That's the slippery slope with LGBTQ affirmative action... anyone can claim status and it's really hard to disprove!

Qotsaautopilot
08-01-2018, 09:12 AM
Well I know what we will be telling insurance when my son turns 16. Even if he dresses like a boy and likes girls what can they say if you tell them he identifies as a girl

crewdawg
08-01-2018, 10:37 AM
There was a story a week ago about a law in Canada that says a trans-gendered must be treated as the gender they claim regardless of plumbing.
Well a twenty-something male told his car insurance company he was identifying as female to save almost $1400 every 6 months on his/her car insurance.
Insurance company balked and now we have a full fledged gender court case.

First off, saving $2800/year...what kind of car are they insuring?!?! Secondly, it's a sad day if it's not thrown out...

Baradium
08-01-2018, 12:24 PM
It's the daily mail, but more information.

Tamar Braxton was 'ridiculed for flying while black' by Delta | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6012253/Tamar-Braxton-claims-ridiculed-flying-black-Delta.html)

jcountry
08-01-2018, 01:02 PM
There was a story a week ago about a law in Canada that says a trans-gendered must be treated as the gender they claim regardless of plumbing.
Well a twenty-something male told his car insurance company he was identifying as female to save almost $1400 every 6 months on his/her car insurance.
Insurance company balked and now we have a full fledged gender court case.


Hahaha!

That might work!

Love it!

jcountry
08-01-2018, 01:15 PM
First off, saving $2800/year...what kind of car are they insuring?!?! Secondly, it's a sad day if it's not thrown out...

Why?

Are trying to say that the obvious double standard is legit?

No one should be charged different rates for gender anyhow.

Auto insurance companies are total crooks-and most of the crap they pull is stuff mafia folk got sent to prison for. Screw those bastards!!

RhinoPherret
08-01-2018, 01:54 PM
Why?

Are trying to say that the obvious double standard is legit?

No one should be charged different rates for gender anyhow.

Auto insurance companies are total crooks-and most of the crap they pull is stuff mafia folk got sent to prison for. Screw those bastards!!

Easy there Archie! Just sit back in your recliner and change the channel.

jcountry
08-01-2018, 05:09 PM
Easy there Archie! Just sit back in your recliner and change the channel.

Snipe if you want, but fair is fair.

And from a legal point of view, this is a better mousetrap.

Iíd love to see some insurance companies try and argue this one.

They are gonna get their asses handed to them. This idea is the perfect way to stick it to the man!

Iíd totally do this if I were younger and the rates were so much different. Makes up to about age 25 play something lime 3x as much as females in that age group.

I never had a wreck back then, but ended up paying through the nose-because of my plumbing.

RhinoPherret
08-02-2018, 02:36 AM
Snipe if you want, but fair is fair.

And from a legal point of view, this is a better mousetrap.

Iíd love to see some insurance companies try and argue this one.

They are gonna get their asses handed to them. This idea is the perfect way to stick it to the man!

Iíd totally do this if I were younger and the rates were so much different. Makes up to about age 25 play something lime 3x as much as females in that age group.

I never had a wreck back then, but ended up paying through the nose-because of my plumbing.


I see. So, if you detest the unscrupulous standards of the insurance industry, apply some of those same detested standards for your own personal gain also as you see fit. Its fair for you to use them, just not others you do not like. Fair is fair, right? :confused:

crewdawg
08-02-2018, 04:20 AM
Why?

Are trying to say that the obvious double standard is legit?

No one should be charged different rates for gender anyhow.

Auto insurance companies are total crooks-and most of the crap they pull is stuff mafia folk got sent to prison for. Screw those bastards!!

My post was more about how they're using the, "well, I now identify as a girl," angle.

FWIW, I agree that insurance companies can be a pain sometimes. However, the few times I've used it, it was well worth my premiums. That said, I'm guessing their rates are based on historical data. If a certain group/demographic as a whole have a greater rate of accidents/claims, then I can see why they require higher premiums.


They are gonna get their asses handed to them. This idea is the perfect way to stick it to the man!

Iíd totally do this if I were younger and the rates were so much different. Makes up to about age 25 play something lime 3x as much as females in that age group.

But lets play out your scenario. Say the insurance companies do lose...do you think the everyones premiums will drop or will they be raised to compensate?

jcountry
08-02-2018, 06:23 AM
I see. So, if you detest the unscrupulous standards of the insurance industry, apply some of those same detested standards for your own personal gain also as you see fit. Its fair for you to use them, just not others you do not like. Fair is fair, right? :confused:

Not at all.

Auto insurers have been getting away with murder for decades. The idea of charging males more than females is crazy. Itís theft.

The most dangerous thing on the roads today is a teen girl with a cell phone. That kind of person shouldnít be getting a huge discount.

Plus, there are some people who self-identify as a member of the opposite sex because they genuinely believe they are. The diagnostic manual psychiatrists use had deleted that from the list of problems and disorders.

So what leg do these insurance thieves have left to stand on?

I think auto insurers are being exposed for the crooks they are-and I love that!!

**** those thieves, and kudos to anyone who beats them at their own game!!

rickair7777
08-02-2018, 07:24 AM
The most dangerous thing on the roads today is a teen girl with a cell phone. That kind of person shouldn’t be getting a huge discount.


Probably true, although the frenzied soccer mom who's doing mascara, texting and drinking a quintuple frapacino while steering with her knee is probably a close second.

In my day it was the teenage boys. But now they don't even really care about the DL, to say nothing of hot-rodding a car.... had to cut mine off from rides to school and activities to get him to finish the thing, over year after he was eligible. I was standing at the DMV door at 0800 on my 16th birthday.

John Carr
08-02-2018, 07:25 AM
That said, I'm guessing their rates are based on historical data. If a certain group/demographic as a whole have a greater rate of accidents/claims, then I can see why they require higher premiums.

I read something about that years ago. True, becuase of historical/trend data, males have higher accident, claim, tickets, what have you.

What the data/statistic FAILS to take into account is, when people are together in a vehicle, who usually drives? The male....

Sure, we can all point to our own past and the stupid stuff we did behind the wheel. But I think we ALSO have enough awareness to grasp that stupidly behind the wheel knows NO GENDER.

Doesn’t matter how they indentify :eek:

jcountry
08-02-2018, 07:41 AM
Probably true, although the frenzied soccer mom who's doing mascara, texting and drinking a quintuple frapacino while steering with her knee is probably a close second.

In my day it was the teenage boys. But now they don't even really care about the DL, to say nothing of hot-rodding a car.... had to cut mine off from rides to school and activities to get him to finish the thing, over year after he was eligible. I was standing at the DMV door at 0800 on my 16th birthday.

Thatís my point.

Things have changed, and the insurance companies are still getting away with punishing people who arenít responsible.

The way it should work is this:

Everyone should start with a flat rate. If a person remains safe, that rate should remain the same. If they get a bunch of tickets or get into a bunch of wrecks, jack up that individualís rates! Make them so high that they have to take an Uber. Get their stupid ass off the road.

I know of a few teen guys who did dumbass stuff blazing down the road real fast in a mustang daddy was dumb enough to give them, or in a 65k jacked diesel truck.

I also know of teen girls who keep texting after their 12th wreck.

Idiots are idiots. Gender shouldnít matter. Thereís no shortage of damned fools on the road, and itís not right for safe drivers to subsidize their stupid asses. Make it expensive for the idiots. So expensive that after the first couple of screw ups, they canít afford to drive.

I was a very careful driver. Still am. Never had a wreck or ticket as a teen, but I was still paying insane rates to cover the idiots who kept screwing up-and of course, the shareholders of these crooked insurance companies.

Auto insurance isnít about coverage individual risks. Itís about maximizing profits-for the ins companies and the scumbag lawyers who game our tort system

badflaps
08-02-2018, 08:13 AM
Probably true, although the frenzied soccer mom who's doing mascara, texting and drinking a quintuple frapacino while steering with her knee is probably a close second.

In my day it was the teenage boys. But now they don't even really care about the DL, to say nothing of hot-rodding a car.... had to cut mine off from rides to school and activities to get him to finish the thing, over year after he was eligible. I was standing at the DMV door at 0800 on my 16th birthday.

13-15, up and down the driveway, up and down the driveway.

tomgoodman
08-02-2018, 08:58 AM
One reason for high rates is that many drivers just donít buy insurance at all. Few assets, a junk car....so go ahead and sue!
Arrests do happen, but judges donít want to jail scofflaws and leave a family with no income. :rolleyes:

https://www.naic.org/cipr_topics/topic_uninsured_motorists.htm

Stoked27
08-02-2018, 09:18 AM
The way it should work is this:

Everyone should start with a flat rate. If a person remains safe, that rate should remain the same. If they get a bunch of tickets or get into a bunch of wrecks, jack up that individualís rates! Make them so high that they have to take an Uber. Get their stupid ass off the road.


Should definitely work that way if it could, but I imagine many of them wouldn't use the uber if their insurance rates got too high. It would just raise the number of uninsured motorists (causing the good drivers' premiums to increase). There comes a point of diminishing return on the premiums to charge people, but there's also probably some benefit in getting the irresponsible people caught driving uninsured so they can have their driving privileges suspended, revoked... amping up their penalties until they get jailed, their car impounded, etc to truly get them off the road.

flensr
08-02-2018, 12:37 PM
It's funny watching people arguing about insurance and making broad claims like "theft" etc, when they have ZERO knowledge or education about statistics, the insurance business, how actuarial tables work, and the legal precedents that permit the idea of open market insurance to exist in the first place.

The whole concept behind insurance is based on completely "pure" mathematical calculations about risk and probability of a claim. The criteria used to determine those risk factors have been used for decades because they are the most fair way to spread risk among insured groups of people without unfairly punishing people who are not in the higher risk categories.

If you don't like that, then come up with a better way and try to convince someone (anyone) to willingly buy into it. But that won't happen, because insurance doesn't work that way. Insurance rates for any particular person is based on a cold mathematical calculation of how likely an aggregate group of "people like you" are likely to have a claim, plain and simple. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

If you don't like that, then pile up some cash and self-insure or get enough people to join you to purchase your own group policy, (which will still be charged premiums based on the characteristics of the people in your group). If you can't self insure, then of course you buy insurance because that's what insurance is for (duh). If you are forced to buy insurance because the govt says you do, then that's what elections are for.

Whining about insurance "theft" and claiming that it's unfair for any particular group to get charged higher premiums than another group is simply showing ignorance about how insurance actually works. I know that making fools of ourselves is kind of a sport in here, but this is pretty blatant even for pilots who know everything :)

jcountry
08-02-2018, 02:22 PM
But lets play out your scenario. Say the insurance companies do lose...do you think the everyones premiums will drop or will they be raised to compensate?

Depends on whether it's a publicly held company.

My insurance company is a co-op. So they don't have shareholders. Most are much more interested in maximizing shareholder returns than anything else.

jcountry
08-02-2018, 02:26 PM
It's funny watching people arguing about insurance and making broad claims like "theft" etc, when they have ZERO knowledge or education about statistics, the insurance business, how actuarial tables work, and the legal precedents that permit the idea of open market insurance to exist in the first place.

The whole concept behind insurance is based on completely "pure" mathematical calculations about risk and probability of a claim. The criteria used to determine those risk factors have been used for decades because they are the most fair way to spread risk among insured groups of people without unfairly punishing people who are not in the higher risk categories.

If you don't like that, then come up with a better way and try to convince someone (anyone) to willingly buy into it. But that won't happen, because insurance doesn't work that way. Insurance rates for any particular person is based on a cold mathematical calculation of how likely an aggregate group of "people like you" are likely to have a claim, plain and simple. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

If you don't like that, then pile up some cash and self-insure or get enough people to join you to purchase your own group policy, (which will still be charged premiums based on the characteristics of the people in your group). If you can't self insure, then of course you buy insurance because that's what insurance is for (duh). If you are forced to buy insurance because the govt says you do, then that's what elections are for.

Whining about insurance "theft" and claiming that it's unfair for any particular group to get charged higher premiums than another group is simply showing ignorance about how insurance actually works. I know that making fools of ourselves is kind of a sport in here, but this is pretty blatant even for pilots who know everything :)

I know exactly how insurance really works.

It works by the companies looking at the damage after a major hurricane and seeing only slabs left where their insureds' homes were.

And then those companies denying payouts because they said homes were washed away, rather than blown.

They are crooked bastards. I hope you never have to file a major claim, but if you do, I sure hope you are treated better than practically everyone I know who has had to.

hilltopflyer
08-02-2018, 03:11 PM
I know exactly how insurance really works.

It works by the companies looking at the damage after a major hurricane and seeing only slabs left where their insureds' homes were.

And then those companies denying payouts because they said homes were washed away, rather than blown.

They are crooked bastards. I hope you never have to file a major claim, but if you do, I sure hope you are treated better than practically everyone I know who has had to.

So true. We had a beach house (rental) and the home insurance was saying it was water and the flood insurance was saying it was wind dmg. Took forever to get it resolved.

jcountry
08-02-2018, 03:28 PM
So true. We had a beach house (rental) and the home insurance was saying it was water and the flood insurance was saying it was wind dmg. Took forever to get it resolved.

The fact that they would pull something like that after a major disaster just Chaps my ass!

Ins companies are in the business of screwing policy holders. Less payout equals more profit-and shareholder hunger for dividends and returns is endless.

I hope I never have to file a major claim.

OOfff
08-02-2018, 03:34 PM
The most dangerous thing on the roads today is a teen girl with a cell phone. That kind of person shouldnít be getting a huge discount.



Why would the insurance companies undercharge such a dangerous person, and on what statistics are you basing this claim?

OOfff
08-02-2018, 03:35 PM
Probably true, although the frenzied soccer mom who's doing mascara, texting and drinking a quintuple frapacino while steering with her knee is probably a close second.

.

Link to the statistics on which you are making this claim?

SpeedyVagabond
08-02-2018, 04:46 PM
Link to the statistics on which you are making this claim?

Where have you been? Just write something and hit enter and you're a factually backed up expert.

at6d
08-02-2018, 08:15 PM
There was a story a week ago about a law in Canada that says a trans-gendered must be treated as the gender they claim regardless of plumbing.
Well a twenty-something male told his car insurance company he was identifying as female to save almost $1400 every 6 months on his/her car insurance.
Insurance company balked and now we have a full fledged gender court case.

Iím guessing this is Bill C-16?

I enjoy watching Jordan Petersonís take on it.

full of luv
08-02-2018, 11:24 PM
First off, saving $2800/year...what kind of car are they insuring?!?! Secondly, it's a sad day if it's not thrown out...


Canadian Dollars.....:cool:

full of luv
08-02-2018, 11:27 PM
Well I know what we will be telling insurance when my son turns 16. Even if he dresses like a boy and likes girls what can they say if you tell them he identifies as a girl


Just have him do it the way Cartman did so he could use the much nicer girls bathroom, add a bow to his hair:


https://youtu.be/urwnrnHexmM

GuppyPuppy
08-03-2018, 04:53 AM
I thought the captain handled himself well here. The captain is the inflight security coordinator not the CRO, and if she wants to fly, must obey orders delegated from him. He's simply giving her a stern warning if she wants to continue on the flight, which she was allowed to. Total nothing-burger...

Agreed.

There is a difference between a captain and a pilot.

Gup

ipdanno
08-03-2018, 06:23 AM
It's funny watching people arguing about insurance and making broad claims like "theft" etc, when they have ZERO knowledge or education about statistics, the insurance business, how actuarial tables work, and the legal precedents that permit the idea of open market insurance to exist in the first place.

The whole concept behind insurance is based on completely "pure" mathematical calculations about risk and probability of a claim. The criteria used to determine those risk factors have been used for decades because they are the most fair way to spread risk among insured groups of people without unfairly punishing people who are not in the higher risk categories.

If you don't like that, then come up with a better way and try to convince someone (anyone) to willingly buy into it. But that won't happen, because insurance doesn't work that way. Insurance rates for any particular person is based on a cold mathematical calculation of how likely an aggregate group of "people like you" are likely to have a claim, plain and simple. It really isn't any more complicated than that.

If you don't like that, then pile up some cash and self-insure or get enough people to join you to purchase your own group policy, (which will still be charged premiums based on the characteristics of the people in your group). If you can't self insure, then of course you buy insurance because that's what insurance is for (duh). If you are forced to buy insurance because the govt says you do, then that's what elections are for.

Whining about insurance "theft" and claiming that it's unfair for any particular group to get charged higher premiums than another group is simply showing ignorance about how insurance actually works. I know that making fools of ourselves is kind of a sport in here, but this is pretty blatant even for pilots who know everything :)

Flensr is spot on educating the uneducated here. Did a better job than I would have, so I say "Thank you."

Jcountry, you have neglected to include facts within your emotional statements. As such, those statements can't hold water. Or wind... ;)

Crazy Canuck
08-04-2018, 02:52 PM
I'm sorry but this is awful. Yes it is true that these recent news stories about black passengers acting rediculous on flights, and the fact that the stories keep happening it seems one after another, does not make "us" (black people/African Americans, whichever you want to pick) look good, this doesn't mean that there are only black people acting loony on flights and having to have flight crews take remedial action. The conflicts involving non-black crazies just don't appear to be as newsworthy because of the sensationalism race related incidents. So it gives the impression that it's just "blacks acting self righteously indignant after being called out for it". I cringe when I see this stuff because it looks bad but the condescending way you posted this is, in my opinion, beneath the intelligence and professional stature that I admire(d) you all for.

That post rubbed me the wrong way too. I am as conservative as anyone, but the post in question paints all with a broad brush and was very demeaning. Sure there are some bad apples but I've seen very few people of any race behave with a manner of entitlement based on skin color...

jcountry
08-04-2018, 03:17 PM
Flensr is spot on educating the uneducated here. Did a better job than I would have, so I say "Thank you."

Jcountry, you have neglected to include facts within your emotional statements. As such, those statements can't hold water. Or wind... ;)

So gender fluid people are fraud?!?

How intolerant of you!

Xenophobic bastard!!

ShyGuy
08-04-2018, 09:59 PM
These liberal parents are now seeing the results of their votes.


Students and parents demand a rule change after trans teen wins the girl's state championship (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5836021/amp/Students-parents-demand-rule-change-trans-teen-wins-girls-state-championship.html)

rickair7777
08-05-2018, 05:52 PM
These liberal parents are now seeing the results of their votes.


Students and parents demand a rule change after trans teen wins the girl's state championship (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5836021/amp/Students-parents-demand-rule-change-trans-teen-wins-girls-state-championship.html)

They should abolish all gender specific teams and competitions and let everyone compete equally regardless of actual or perceived gender. I don't understand how anyone can tolerate the implied gender discrimination of segregated sports in this day and age.

flensr
08-05-2018, 07:36 PM
They should abolish all gender specific teams and competitions and let everyone compete equally regardless of actual or perceived gender. I don't understand how anyone can tolerate the implied gender discrimination of segregated sports in this day and age.

You get beat up a lot as a kid and want to compete against smaller women so you can win sometimes, right? :)

Kidding kidding, plus I can't really tell if you were serious or not. If not, well played :)

FlyyGuyy
08-06-2018, 06:25 AM
You get beat up a lot as a kid and want to compete against smaller women so you can win sometimes, right? :)

Kidding kidding, plus I can't really tell if you were serious or not. If not, well played :)

i actually think i would probably go watch high school sports for entertainment if they just let anyone compete regardless of gender. imagine football or hockey games. People would get destroyed, would a pretty sweet ticket. Actually, boxing might be the new most entertaining sport. I mean we all watch sports to watch someone win and someone lose, right? It'd be really clear who the winners and losers are now...

rickair7777
08-06-2018, 07:18 AM
You get beat up a lot as a kid and want to compete against smaller women so you can win sometimes, right? :)

Kidding kidding, plus I can't really tell if you were serious or not. If not, well played :)

Not serious, just pointing out the hypocrisy. A previous administration opened all military jobs to all genders. OK, fine with that actually, anyone who can qualify is welcome I think we've all come that far. But then the folks in DC naturally started inquiring as to how soon and how many would be on the Navy's seal teams. Some quick research was done, and estimates were very, very low based on known statistical athletic performance.... and that assumed that ALL the top female athletes in the US joined the navy and then applied for the training (keeping in mind that there are national/world/olympic class male athletes, plus a few ex-NFL in that organization). So not liking that answer, the folks in DC next asked the NSWC to look at and consider eliminating long-established physical standards which would be problematic for women... I kid you not. At least they didn't order to them to change the standards (yet). :eek:

If everybody is so physically equal, why do we need title IX ?

PC Disclaimer: I don't think women are in any way less capable in most endeavors, including aviation. As an experienced instructor, women on average multi-task better.

ItnStln
08-06-2018, 05:46 PM
I know exactly how insurance really works.

It works by the companies looking at the damage after a major hurricane and seeing only slabs left where their insureds' homes were.

And then those companies denying payouts because they said homes were washed away, rather than blown.

They are crooked bastards. I hope you never have to file a major claim, but if you do, I sure hope you are treated better than practically everyone I know who has had to.

How would being washed away be any different than being blown away?

jcountry
08-07-2018, 04:22 AM
How would being washed away be any different than being blown away?

Because many policies cover wind damage and not rising water.

Those guys are 100% crooks. They are just very politically powerful crooks.

hilltopflyer
08-07-2018, 06:02 AM
How would being washed away be any different than being blown away?

Two different policies.

rickair7777
08-07-2018, 06:41 AM
Two different policies.

Yes flood insurance is under-written separately, at least for every house I've ever owned. Some sort of government program.

rickair7777
08-07-2018, 06:44 AM
Because many policies cover wind damage and not rising water.

Those guys are 100% crooks. They are just very politically powerful crooks.

If you have assets, consult with a professional financial planner. In addition to long-term investment/retirement, they help with things like insurance. With competent advise you can get the right policies for your needs, with no loopholes.

A pilot with a lot of assets picking out his own insurance is about the same as a pilot picking stocks for retirement investment... probably amateur hour.

ipdanno
08-07-2018, 09:14 AM
So gender fluid people are fraud?!?

How intolerant of you!

Xenophobic bastard!!

I didn't see a sarcasm smilie, so I guess you're trying to be serious.

Sooo, jcountry, you aimed low and missed wide. Gender-fluid identifying persons are mentioned nowhere in my post, nor in the quoted post of flensr.

Where is your rage; the actuarial tables, insurance corporations, or societal gender politics?

As to your last attempt at insult, my parents were married. 😉

jcountry
08-07-2018, 09:27 AM
If you have assets, consult with a professional financial planner. In addition to long-term investment/retirement, they help with things like insurance. With competent advise you can get the right policies for your needs, with no loopholes.

A pilot with a lot of assets picking out his own insurance is about the same as a pilot picking stocks for retirement investment... probably amateur hour.

You are missing the point entirely.

The insurance company couldnít prove whether the house was blown or washed away. They just chose to fight it out in court-with several thousand policyholders.

tomgoodman
08-07-2018, 10:19 AM
Yes flood insurance is under-written separately, at least for every house I've ever owned. Some sort of government program.

Correct, as we MSY residents are well aware. FEMA subsidizes the program, or else nobody could afford the premiums. :(

Why Doesn?t Homeowners Insurance Cover Floods? (http://sweatingthebigstuff.com/why-doesnt-homeowners-insurance-cover-floods/)

GogglesPisano
08-07-2018, 10:57 AM
Government-subsidized flood insurance is another market-distorting debacle that needs to eventually go away.

And yes, I feel the same way about mortgage interest.

ItnStln
08-07-2018, 11:10 AM
Because many policies cover wind damage and not rising water.

Those guys are 100% crooks. They are just very politically powerful crooks.

That makes sense, thanks!

YAKflyer
08-07-2018, 12:07 PM
I started reading this thread and then jumped to the last couple of pages. All I can say is WOW talk about thread creep.....:eek:

Happyflyer
08-10-2018, 03:32 PM
Save your energy. I went about 7 pages on here awhile back just trying to explain that despite the fact we just had a Black President and "technically" we all have equal opportunities, that oftentimes Black folks are still struggling to make fair equal headway in this country due to systemic biases that have been in place for years. You will never convince someone who does not want to be convinced regardless of you insisting and knowing for an absolute personal fact that we have these types of issues in this country.

Based in this video, he was extremely condescending and I may talk to a child like that, but certainly not an adult. To be fair, he probably would have spoken like that to anyone, Black or White. It was condescending and if she was triggered to believe that race was involved the dynamic of White man in power vs. Black female and the historical context of that should be considered. Had someone spoken to my wife or daughter like that we would have a problem (granted we don't know what transpired and my family knows how to act in public).

And a little more context, I'm Black and a Captain for a major airline...save your time and energy...Fox news is STRONG in the cockpit of most airliners!

I hope you realize he was talking to her condescendingly because he was avoiding the obvious next step of kicking her off the flight.

You stated you'd have a problem with a CA talking to your wife like that, would you have had a problem with him if he didn't go back there at all and just kicked her off from the flight deck.

No one here is acknowledging the stress of him careing that she be allowed to continue. Everyone here is just saying stay up front and eject her at the first sign of trouble.

Cruz Clearance
08-14-2018, 08:46 PM
Captain has angry white man syndrome written all over his face, which lacks any understanding expression and tone completely missing the slightest hint of customer service courtesy.

He is speaking to her as if she is a child, a prisoner in a jail, or a troop under his command.

I think there is an intersectionality of racism, sexism and patriarchy here he wouldn't talk to a grown man that way of any race. And yes the passengers are getting more entitled these days with smartphones and ******* fake service animals. I have a good dozen years Captain time (Commuter and Majors)I wouldn't engage with them anymore unless they are already beating somebody up in the cabin.

jcountry
08-14-2018, 08:51 PM
Government-subsidized flood insurance is another market-distorting debacle that needs to eventually go away.

And yes, I feel the same way about mortgage interest.

You only feel that way because you are right.

People need to at least call it by the appropriate name-fascism.

Myfingershurt
08-16-2018, 12:31 AM
Captain has angry white man syndrome written all over his face, which lacks any understanding expression and tone completely missing the slightest hint of customer service courtesy.

He is speaking to her as if she is a child, a prisoner in a jail, or a troop under his command.

I think there is an intersectionality of racism, sexism and patriarchy here he wouldn't talk to a grown man that way of any race. And yes the passengers are getting more entitled these days with smartphones and ******* fake service animals. I have a good dozen years Captain time (Commuter and Majors)I wouldn't engage with them anymore unless they are already beating somebody up in the cabin.

Iíve totally spoken that way to and older white male who was disrespecting a young flight attendant. Didnít think twice about it. And he sat down and didnít say another word the rest of the flight and didnít go running to Facebook because he knew he was wrong. Race has nothing to do with the captains response. It may have something to do with the passengers response.

John Carr
08-16-2018, 01:33 AM
“Angry white man syndrome”, that’s awesome. Nothing racial/gender biased about that.

Can we we come up with a clever title/moniker like “acting like an entitled non socially adjusted while being not white nor male syndrome” for people as well?

Thaaaat beeee greaaaaaaat.......

WHACKMASTER
08-16-2018, 10:26 AM
ďAngry white man syndromeĒ, thatís awesome. Nothing racial/gender biased about that.

Can we we come up with a clever title/moniker like ďacting like an entitled non socially adjusted while being not white nor male syndromeĒ for people as well?

Thaaaat beeee greaaaaaaat.......

Hey! Now youíre being a racist. Donít you know that racism only works in one direction?!

John Carr
08-16-2018, 10:29 AM
Hey! Now youíre being a racist. Donít you know that racism only works in one direction?!

AND sexist!!!

Slaphappy
08-16-2018, 07:27 PM
She sounds like she's fully embraced the oppression delusion and victim complex.

busdriver12
08-17-2018, 08:27 AM
Wait a minute, here. By the tone of many of the posts in this thread, I assumed that what the captain did was over the line and obnoxious. It wasn't. I viewed the video after reading the comments, as my computer wasn't working quite right.

I don't think he was self righteous at all. This is an incomplete video. You have no idea of what the passenger was doing beforehand to even get this started. It looked like the captain came out and quickly did his best to deal with the situation and get out of there. Mistake, probably, in this day and age of taping only the things that are favorable to oneself, but if you can't see what he was responding to, you don't know the context.

If necessary, I can see myself talking to anyone like that....man, woman, child, any race. But it would have to be pretty extreme. Glad I fly freight and nobody tapes anything, because if they do, they're off the jumpseat!

jcountry
08-17-2018, 09:32 AM
This is so simple.

Just donít get involved.

Going back and trying to talk sense to crazy will not result in any good outcome, ever.

Just stay out of it-and do only your job.

trip
08-17-2018, 05:49 PM
Captain has angry white man syndrome written all over his face,

WOW! Who do you think you are to judge someone by their skin color and sex? Crawl back under your your rock.

Happyflyer
08-17-2018, 08:02 PM
Captain has angry white man syndrome written all over his face, which lacks any understanding expression and tone completely missing the slightest hint of customer service courtesy.

He is speaking to her as if she is a child, a prisoner in a jail, or a troop under his command.

I think there is an intersectionality of racism, sexism and patriarchy here he wouldn't talk to a grown man that way of any race. And yes the passengers are getting more entitled these days with smartphones and ******* fake service animals. I have a good dozen years Captain time (Commuter and Majors)I wouldn't engage with them anymore unless they are already beating somebody up in the cabin.

Have you been around many AA women?
I've witnessed plenty treat each other with the MOST disrespect.
I only wish that's how I've seen many talk to their children. Let's have "the" conversion, many AA women scold their children much worse in public before snatching them around by one arm.
I've heard, "I'am bout to act my color" more times than anyone should have too.
Have you ever been to a dollar store in the south? Do you just type this garabage from your gated community?

FlyyGuyy
08-18-2018, 07:22 PM
Captain has angry white man syndrome written all over his face, which lacks any understanding expression and tone completely missing the slightest hint of customer service courtesy.

He is speaking to her as if she is a child, a prisoner in a jail, or a troop under his command.

I think there is an intersectionality of racism, sexism and patriarchy here he wouldn't talk to a grown man that way of any race. And yes the passengers are getting more entitled these days with smartphones and ******* fake service animals. I have a good dozen years Captain time (Commuter and Majors)I wouldn't engage with them anymore unless they are already beating somebody up in the cabin.

Found the racist...

jDSTJD
08-18-2018, 08:19 PM
Have you been around many AA women?
I've witnessed plenty treat each other with the MOST disrespect.
I only wish that's how I've seen many talk to their children. Let's have "the" conversion, many AA women scold their children much worse in public before snatching them around by one arm.
I've heard, "I'am bout to act my color" more times than anyone should have too.
Have you ever been to a dollar store in the south? Do you just type this garabage from your gated community?

Please don't do that. I am an African American woman and while there are some who act the way you've described, there are plenty who are totally not like that. How does your post and it's characterization of black women have anything to do with his post or this thread? Did you just have a spur of the moment urge to throw your stereotypical comment out there because you think that someone gave you the opportunity? I can't believe that out of all of the varieties of afr. Amer. Women out there that you would choose that characterization to make your point (whatever it is)? I happen to disagree with his post but it's hard to be critical of his when you follow it up with this b.s.

busdriver12
08-19-2018, 06:05 AM
Please don't do that. I am an African American woman and while there are some who act the way you've described, there are plenty who are totally not like that. How does your post and it's characterization of black women have anything to do with his post or this thread? Did you just have a spur of the moment urge to throw your stereotypical comment out there because you think that someone gave you the opportunity? I can't believe that out of all of the varieties of afr. Amer. Women out there that you would choose that characterization to make your point (whatever it is)? I happen to disagree with his post but it's hard to be critical of his when you follow it up with this b.s.

Yes. +1

It is sadly ironic that someone who is irritated about a post stereotyping people refutes it by a post stereotyping other people.:confused:

hilltopflyer
08-19-2018, 07:36 AM
Please don't do that. I am an African American woman and while there are some who act the way you've described, there are plenty who are totally not like that. How does your post and it's characterization of black women have anything to do with his post or this thread? Did you just have a spur of the moment urge to throw your stereotypical comment out there because you think that someone gave you the opportunity? I can't believe that out of all of the varieties of afr. Amer. Women out there that you would choose that characterization to make your point (whatever it is)? I happen to disagree with his post but it's hard to be critical of his when you follow it up with this b.s.

Iím guessing cause the post he quoted talking about the over inflated ego centric amgry white captain was talking to an angry black lady. And they did make a movie about that, so the issue should be with Tyler perry. But I agree with your point. I think race should just not be even said it makes no difference in a situation

Deathwish
08-19-2018, 07:56 AM
I thought he was talking about the women at American Airlines. Ha

jDSTJD
08-19-2018, 09:05 AM
I’m guessing cause the post he quoted talking about the over inflated ego centric amgry white captain was talking to an angry black lady. And they did make a movie about that, so the issue should be with Tyler perry. But I agree with your point. I think race should just not be even said it makes no difference in a situation

Are you saying that my issue should be with Tyler Perry? (Not being sarcastic, just want to make sure I understand your statement). If so, don't get me started on my opinion on Tyler Perry. Had I been able to tell him how rediculous I thought his making that movie would be before he made it, or how rediculous the movie was once he made it, I would have, not that he would have cared less about my opinion. I take the same issue with that stupid movie and I take with the post. It grossly mischaracterizes (what I believe to be) most black women. And then others of us have to go out there and fight to break down the stereotypes that people like him create. And on top of that, the movie had nothing to do with black women in particular. Any woman would have been angry/hurt/humiliated, etc. by what her husband did to her. Anyway, whole lot of digression going on in here. Getting back to the original article and the comments here about whether Tamar was angry or beligerant or otherwise deserved to be treated like that by the captain, unless I missed it, there isn't any footage that shows what she said or did before he started chastising her. The only thing we heard her say on the video was try to interject to explain herself which was very calm and it sounded like she was kind of in shock. The only other thing you heard was her friend sitting next to her saying that she thought they should get off the plane. So I don't see anger to justify the characterization of an angry black lady and I don't see the captain being overtly or subtly racial in his statements. I would have been embarrassed and ticked off had I been the one he was talking to but that would be true if anyone had spoken to me like that. Point is that I don't think anyone here can say definitively that Tamar deserved that treatment or that the Captain had racial motivations behind the way he talked to her. No one knows. Athe original post, I thought, was focused on whether the captain should have come out of the cockpit to deal with the situation at all. There have been great, insightful opinions offered throughout the thread on that, but the ones that brought race into it we're unfounded and unnecessary. The fact the the article talked about Tamar's sister's accusations about it being a racial issue was irrelevant to the original poster's thread.

Happyflyer
08-20-2018, 02:24 PM
Please don't do that. I am an African American woman and while there are some who act the way you've described, there are plenty who are totally not like that. How does your post and it's characterization of black women have anything to do with his post or this thread? Did you just have a spur of the moment urge to throw your stereotypical comment out there because you think that someone gave you the opportunity? I can't believe that out of all of the varieties of afr. Amer. Women out there that you would choose that characterization to make your point (whatever it is)? I happen to disagree with his post but it's hard to be critical of his when you follow it up with this b.s.

Well I'am glad to explain myself, I never stated most act that way. I did state what I have personally observed living in the South.
If you truly believe it is untrue than you haven't spent much time in the South around AA women regardless if you happen to be one.
The post I responded to was immediately accusing the CA of being an "angry White man", as if this condition has been seen before and is detectable by himself, or the "victim" in the video.
No one knows why he chose the words he used or the tone he presented.
So, to state is was because he was any "angry white man", is just an opinion.
I countered his opinion with the fact that AA women do speak disrespectfully to each other on a regular enough basis to debunk his opinion of "angry white man syndrome" because clearly that syndrome doesn't apply to them.
The narrative that a white man speaking disrespectfully to a non-white is only due to their inherent racism is false, and it is false because non-whites can and do speak to non-whites disrespectfully.

The poster may have some ground to stand on if this CA were at Macdonald's treating an employee like this way about his mishandled order that had too many pickles on it.

But no, a CA driving a 100k lb tube 160mph down a runway with 40k lb of flammable jet fuel in the wings, and some costumer decides they do not need to follow the rules, I'am sorry frustration is plausible other than white man racism.
It was completely absurd to suggest it's because he's rasist, without knowing what the rest of his day was like.
This job is mostly easy, but we've all had difficult days regarding, Mel's, weather, release, ATC. He is an airline Captain and should not have been bothered with her behavior, he also could have have said everything he said with a smile on his face.
Jumping to race is a terribale reflection of this country, of the accusers and the racist.

galleycafe
08-20-2018, 02:35 PM
I just realized AA women meant African American women.

I thought you guys were saying American Airlines women.

I was so confused.

More Plane Coffee!

Happyflyer
08-20-2018, 03:59 PM
jDSTJD,

I do apologize for my earlier post and characterization. I responded incorrectly to a post I took offense too.
I do believe a senecio could exist where the CA was in the wrong and the lady was in the right, and that still does not make his motivations race related. I do think, white men, can be wrong and speak out of turn, and still not be a racist.
The original post I believe was about CA behavior until the other poster made it about white man behavior.

jDSTJD
08-20-2018, 05:05 PM
jDSTJD,

I do apologize for my earlier post and characterization. I responded incorrectly to a post I took offense too.
I do believe a senecio could exist where the CA was in the wrong and the lady was in the right, and that still does not make his motivations race related. I do think, white men, can be wrong and speak out of turn, and still not be a racist.
The original post I believe was about CA behavior until the other poster made it about white man behavior.

Thank you for your apology. I really appreciate that. I also respect your point of view.

galleycafe
08-20-2018, 05:14 PM
I thought he was talking about the women at American Airlines. Ha

Aaaaand I'm even more late to the party.

Plane Coffee

symbian simian
08-20-2018, 06:00 PM
I just realized AA women meant African American women.

I thought you guys were saying American Airlines women.

I was so confused.

More Plane Coffee!


I thought he was talking about the women at American Airlines. Ha

Apparently you guys are not racist enough.

John Carr
08-20-2018, 06:50 PM
Apparently you guys are not racist enough.

And sexist enough!!!!!

jcountry
08-20-2018, 07:04 PM
I just realized AA women meant African American women.

I thought you guys were saying American Airlines women.

I was so confused.

More Plane Coffee!

You were not unreasonably confused.

This is the dumbest thread in the history of the internet. Itís making us all retarded.

Guppydriver95
08-22-2018, 07:50 AM
[QUOTE=jcountry;2656987]This is so simple.

Just donít get involved.

Going back and trying to talk sense to crazy will not result in any good outcome, ever.

Just stay out of it-and do only your job.


Problem with your theory is, the Captain is in charge of EVERYTHING that happens on the jet. So, if in his expert opinion, his intervention was needed, then thatís his call to make. ďStay in your laneĒ type comments may work for some work groups, but not when itís your show(the Captainís). Perhaps youíre not in our industry, and do not understand the legal responsibility the Captain has, so your ignorance is understandable.

jcountry
08-22-2018, 01:22 PM
[QUOTE=jcountry;2656987]This is so simple.

Just donít get involved.

Going back and trying to talk sense to crazy will not result in any good outcome, ever.

Just stay out of it-and do only your job.


Problem with your theory is, the Captain is in charge of EVERYTHING that happens on the jet. So, if in his expert opinion, his intervention was needed, then thatís his call to make. ďStay in your laneĒ type comments may work for some work groups, but not when itís your show(the Captainís). Perhaps youíre not in our industry, and do not understand the legal responsibility the Captain has, so your ignorance is understandable.

You are confusing operational control with emergency authority.

When the pax cause a big problem in flight, that can become an emergency. Clearly, the capt can and should deal with that.

At the gate, not only does the capt have no business back there, he/she technically doesnít have operational control. Most airlines let it slide, but when the plane is at the gate and the door is open, the capt is not in charge.

The company/gate/dispatch still have authority at that point.

Stay out of it. Captainís authority has nothing to do with these gate situations-any more than it has to do with some fight in a terminal restroom.

Donít come crying to me when you are the next social media incident everyone is laughing at on late night shows.

Stay the **** out of the back. There be dragons

rickair7777
08-22-2018, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2659797]

You are confusing operational control with emergency authority.

When the pax cause a big problem in flight, that can become an emergency. Clearly, the capt can and should deal with that.

At the gate, not only does the capt have no business back there, he/she technically doesnít have operational control. Most airlines let it slide, but when the plane is at the gate and the door is open, the capt is not in charge.

The company/gate/dispatch still have authority at that point.

Stay out of it. Captainís authority has nothing to do with these gate situations-any more than it has to do with some fight in a terminal restroom.

Donít come crying to me when you are the next social media incident everyone is laughing at on late night shows.

Stay the **** out of the back. There be dragons

This is correct. If the door is open, the CA's auth-or-itay is technically limited to programing the box and loading fuel. That's a technicality which is often disregarded, but if things get real ugly they will hold you to the letter of the law.

Guppydriver95
08-22-2018, 04:44 PM
[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2659797]

You are confusing operational control with emergency authority.

When the pax cause a big problem in flight, that can become an emergency. Clearly, the capt can and should deal with that.

At the gate, not only does the capt have no business back there, he/she technically doesnít have operational control. Most airlines let it slide, but when the plane is at the gate and the door is open, the capt is not in charge.

The company/gate/dispatch still have authority at that point.

Stay out of it. Captainís authority has nothing to do with these gate situations-any more than it has to do with some fight in a terminal restroom.

Donít come crying to me when you are the next social media incident everyone is laughing at on late night shows.

Stay the **** out of the back. There be dragons


Demonstrably false. The FOM is clear. From the time the Captain signs the release, until he releases the crew after block in, itís his/her show. This was codified years ago, shortly after the merger. Youíre free to disagree, but you would be wrong.

jcountry
08-23-2018, 07:46 AM
[QUOTE=jcountry;2660095]


Demonstrably false. The FOM is clear. From the time the Captain signs the release, until he releases the crew after block in, itís his/her show. This was codified years ago, shortly after the merger. Youíre free to disagree, but you would be wrong.

Go ahead and break up that fight in the terminal restroom. (Which is exactly the same as getting involved in a gateway altercation.)

Skycop a situation outside of the cockpit and come back here to tell us how it turned out.

Canít wait to see how long you got suspended.

This is not hard stuff. Going back and getting involved in anything is not our job, and constitutes just about the most brain-dead thing any pilot can ever do.

tomgoodman
08-23-2018, 08:30 AM
I remember when Delta appointed the CA of a flight to the additional post of ďOn-time CoordinatorĒ. We asked if that title included authority to give orders to gate agents & ground personnel, and they said: ďWell....not really.Ē :rolleyes:

Guppydriver95
08-23-2018, 08:40 AM
[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660269]

Go ahead and break up that fight in the terminal restroom. (Which is exactly the same as getting involved in a gateway altercation.)

Skycop a situation outside of the cockpit and come back here to tell us how it turned out.

Canít wait to see how long you got suspended.

This is not hard stuff. Going back and getting involved in anything is not our job, and constitutes just about the most brain-dead thing any pilot can ever do.


Reading comprehension obviously not your strong suit. Read the FOM. Itís black and white. And your ridiculous terminal analogy has nothing to do with anything. Weíre talking about something happening ON THE JET. Your lack of understanding really makes no difference in what the Feds and company have both agreed to IN WRITING, but hey, youíre free to believe whatever you choose.

Guppydriver95
08-23-2018, 09:51 AM
I remember when Delta appointed the CA of a flight to the additional post of ďOn-time CoordinatorĒ. We asked if that title included authority to give orders to gate agents & ground personnel, and they said: ďWell....not really.Ē :rolleyes:

Not sure what language Delta has, but at U, the Captain is the on site leader from the moment he/she arrives at the gate. Have had numerous occasions where this theory is tested. For example: itís the last flight of the day. We have a handful of pax who will be stuck overnight if we leave without them. Overzealous gate agent says ďmy boss in zone says to button it up, we need the on timeĒ. I call zone, tell her boss weíll wait for them. Case closed. There are may other examples, but you donít have to give them orders per se, you simply donít release the parking brake until things are done. There are no second guesses from the Chief Pilot, and no paperwork required. Just doing what we get paid for. Not really sure why some on this thread donít understand this simple concept. Perhaps pre-merger CAL did things differently, but those days are looooong gone.

jcountry
08-23-2018, 10:09 AM
[QUOTE=jcountry;2660634]


Reading comprehension obviously not your strong suit. Read the FOM. It’s black and white. And your ridiculous terminal analogy has nothing to do with anything. We’re talking about something happening ON THE JET. Your lack of understanding really makes no difference in what the Feds and company have both agreed to IN WRITING, but hey, you’re free to believe whatever you choose.

Once again, I encourage you to involve yourself back there (or up in the terminal, or wherever.).

Go right ahead. Have a ball!

Take that FOM back there and explain to folks how in command you are. I’m certain they will take it the right way.

Just don’t claim you weren’t warned when you wind up on Tosh looking like a fool.

Being right does not trump being smart. Under no circumstance is it ever smart to get involved with any pax issues. Make your decisions from the cockpit, and rely on people who are trained to deal in person with idiots who are obviously trying to set us up.

Guppydriver95
08-23-2018, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660681]

Once again, I encourage you to involve yourself back there (or up in the terminal, or wherever.).

Go right ahead. Have a ball!

Take that FOM back there and explain to folks how in command you are. Iím certain they will take it the right way.

Just donít claim you werenít warned when you wind up on Tosh looking like a fool.

Being right does not trump being smart. Under no circumstance is it ever smart to get involved with any pax issues. Make your decisions from the cockpit, and rely on people who are trained to deal in person with idiots who are obviously trying to set us up.

Sir/madam

Youíve definitely jumped the shark. I NEVER said it was something I would want to do. I simply was correcting the uninformed notion that the Captain ďhas no businessĒ getting involved. I agree that he/she should TRY to direct appropriate ground personel to diffuse the situation while at the gate. We have NO idea what happened prior to the video being taken. Thatís the problem. You get a snap shot in time, with incomplete facts, and then spout off about why the Captain was wrong when you obviously have NO IDEA how the chain of command works. But hey, keep in tilting at that windmill, sport.

jcountry
08-23-2018, 04:47 PM
[QUOTE=jcountry;2660759]

Sir/madam

Youíve definitely jumped the shark. I NEVER said it was something I would want to do. I simply was correcting the uninformed notion that the Captain ďhas no businessĒ getting involved. I agree that he/she should TRY to direct appropriate ground personel to diffuse the situation while at the gate. We have NO idea what happened prior to the video being taken. Thatís the problem. You get a snap shot in time, with incomplete facts, and then spout off about why the Captain was wrong when you obviously have NO IDEA how the chain of command works. But hey, keep in tilting at that windmill, sport.

You know what canít ever be taken out of context?

A capt who is not back there, not messing around with any pax, and not getting his picture taken making any gestures.

Problems avoided never need to be solved.

See how that works?

Guppydriver95
08-23-2018, 05:24 PM
[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660778]

You know what canít ever be taken out of context?

A capt who is not back there, not messing around with any pax, and not getting his picture taken making any gestures.

Problems avoided never need to be solved.

See how that works?

Glad youíre not in any position to make decisions. Nuff said.

rickair7777
08-27-2018, 01:46 PM
We have NO idea what happened prior to the video being taken. That’s the problem. You get a snap shot in time, with incomplete facts,


That's the problem. It's why there's almost no way to win by going back there because the video will be edited for "newsworthiness" regardless of what actually transpired.

Guppydriver95
08-31-2018, 09:41 AM
That's the problem. It's why there's almost no way to win by going back there because the video will be edited for "newsworthiness" regardless of what actually transpired.

I donít disagree with you re: the ideal way to handle these situations. I was simply correcting the uneducated notion that the Captain has no say prior to the door being closed. I get that the general public posts here, but there are many in the industry that post here as well who actually believe this.

rickair7777
08-31-2018, 09:44 AM
I donít disagree with you re: the ideal way to handle these situations. I was simply correcting the uneducated notion that the Captain has no say prior to the door being closed. I get that the general public posts here, but there are many in the industry that post here as well who actually believe this.

Oh I agree, the CA absolutely has a say whether someone stays on the plane or not. But he probably doesn't have a duty or responsibility to roll up his sleeves, head back, and wade in. And phones and social media make it bad idea in almost all cases.

Guppydriver95
08-31-2018, 10:46 AM
Oh I agree, the CA absolutely has a say whether someone stays on the plane or not. But he probably doesn't have a duty or responsibility to roll up his sleeves, head back, and wade in. And phones and social media make it bad idea in almost all cases.

Not trying to pick nits, but the Captain has THE say, not A say as to who stays on the plane. As for ďhe probably doesnít have a duty...Ē thatís where our views diverge. The FOM is black and white. Take care.

jcountry
08-31-2018, 11:00 AM
Not trying to pick nits, but the Captain has THE say, not A say as to who stays on the plane. As for ďhe probably doesnít have a duty...Ē thatís where our views diverge. The FOM is black and white. Take care.

This is one of those cases where you may win the battle and lose the war.

Just donít go back there. Itís stupid as all hell.

I have questions about the decision making capability of any pilot who will go back and get involved personally. Itís so incredibly stupid

Fleet Warp
08-31-2018, 11:08 AM
Jeebus. Not this again....

Don't you guys have anything better to do?

rickair7777
08-31-2018, 11:09 AM
Not trying to pick nits, but the Captain has THE say, not A say as to who stays on the plane. As for ďhe probably doesnít have a duty...Ē thatís where our views diverge. The FOM is black and white. Take care.

Yes, he has THE say, no grey area there.

I suppose FOM's might differ.

Baradium
08-31-2018, 11:11 AM
This is one of those cases where you may win the battle and lose the war.

Just donít go back there. Itís stupid as all hell.

I have questions about the decision making capability of any pilot who will go back and get involved personally. Itís so incredibly stupid

Even when your company manual requires it?

jcountry
08-31-2018, 12:24 PM
Even when your company manual requires it?

YGTBSM.....

No manual I have ever seen requires any pilot to go and insert themselves in stupid situations.

You make the decisions, and guess what-the gate agent, or FAs, who whom the hell ever is actually trained to deal with irate idiots will go and deal with them.

If you step back there to do it yourself, you are the idiot-and you will soon be plastered all over social media advertising that fact. Plus, you will get a whole bunch of bad publicity for the airline.... Gee, thanks.

God. Some people are just always searching for something stupid to go ahead and jump into.

Guppydriver95
08-31-2018, 02:47 PM
Jeebus. Not this again....

Don't you guys have anything better to do?


Yet here you are......

Inkoreausa
09-03-2018, 01:51 PM
Yeah....poor girl...itís so stressful to follow INSTRUCTIONS.....SNOW FLAKE CRY BABY. Just follow instructions.....itís not too hard. 35000 feet up in a tube going 600 mph.....FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. Save the theatrics for the stage or entertainment venue.



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