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View Full Version : DCA vs PHL


WingAttackPlanR
07-30-2018, 04:35 AM
Waiting for a call from AA and currently live south of BWI. Was curious about equipment choice should I get hired and what a good 1-2 year plan would be.

The 190 seems likely out of training and fast seniority progression but 2 hr drive. DCA is about an hour drive but tough seniority-wise.

Would it be best to just try to get to DCA on a big jet or hang out on the 190 for a while then bid into DCA when my seniority is better. Also how long to CA on the 190?

Thanks in advance


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RyanP
07-30-2018, 05:30 AM
If you get on the 190 you won't be able to get off anytime soon because they will withhold you.

DCA 737 has JUN18 people awarded it on the latest bid. Hasn't been offered to a new hire class any time recently that I can remember. So you would have to bid something else like LGA 737 and transfer.

190 CA has JUL17 hire awarded on latest bid.

flydc
07-30-2018, 05:41 AM
I was hired Jan 2017. Iím 21% PHL E190 FO, currently being withheld from an Airbus award. I would be 94% UDC 320 FO and 71% DCA 737 FO.

The most junior E190 captain awarded on the latest bid was hired in July 2017.


WingAttackPlanR
07-30-2018, 05:59 AM
So would there be any advantage to staying in the 190, upgrading to CA and then move to the 737 as an FO when the pay is the same?


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Aviatrx
07-30-2018, 06:36 AM
It depends on how much training you feel like doing. If the commute is better to DCA, I would recommend a 737 bid then transfer in. If you want a better schedule and donít mind going through training in the following year, go 190. Another thing to consider is the 190 is scheduled to retire in 2020

redbaronahp
07-30-2018, 06:47 AM
I was hired Jan 2017. Iím 21% PHL E190 FO, currently being withheld from an Airbus award. I would be 94% UDC 320 FO and 71% DCA 737 FO.

The most junior E190 captain awarded on the latest bid was hired in July 2017.

I start in the Aug 7 class. Will someone please explain the DCA/UDC thing. I think I read something like UDC=KDCA and DCA=KIAD or something weird like that.

It depends on how much training you feel like doing. If the commute is better to DCA, I would recommend a 737 bid then transfer in. If you want a better schedule and donít mind going through training in the following year, go 190. Another thing to consider is the 190 is scheduled to retire in 2020

Why do you say the say the 190 is a better schedule? Do you mean for someone that lives nearby or even for commuters?

RhinoBallAuto
07-30-2018, 07:07 AM
Will someone please explain the DCA/UDC thing.

It's a roadblock from the merger. Simply put,
DCA = 737 at DCA
UDC = 320 at DCA

Aviatrx
07-30-2018, 07:51 AM
I start in the Aug 7 class. Will someone please explain the DCA/UDC thing. I think I read something like UDC=KDCA and DCA=KIAD or something weird like that.



Why do you say the say the 190 is a better schedule? Do you mean for someone that lives nearby or even for commuters?

I mean better schedule with regards to relative seniority.

Sliceback
07-30-2018, 08:20 AM
DCA/UDC 737/320 apparently have different percentages of their flying from different co-terminal airports. So thereís something to consider or investigate before you chose a fleet.

Frip
07-30-2018, 09:17 AM
Drive to work if you can.

That said, probably not getting DCA out of new hire class. If you can, great. If not, there has to be a vacancy in order to transfer in to a different base, and you have to have the seniority to be awarded that vacancy.

DCA has not been "junior", but things change fast when things are moving and there are often some outlier junior preferences awarded.

That makes taking the 73/320 job in another base hoping for a quick move to where you actually want to be a gamble, and one that is entirely dependent on what everyine else does.

OTOH, if you are on the 190 when they get parked, and wait to get displaced, you can displace into a status where there is anyone junior to you with no seat lock.

Battlinbear21
07-30-2018, 03:31 PM
We are practically neighbors. Iím a hour 45 from the parking lot in Philly. Wasnít going to commute to lax for 2 months to get Domestic DCA 73. Latest bid Iím 300 #s short of holding UDC 320. So Iíve changed my bid to also have the 73 to make sure Iím paid G2 while I wait out my 9-12 month lock next year. Moving up 34 numbers in aug on 190. Currently biding 80% and Iíve been on the line for 1 month. So happy w my decision, even tho the drive is $$. I get 14 mpg, and tolls are $14 one way. They cut the frequency of bee wii Philly flights in the am. However, there is a 1040 and 3 returns late afternoon if you donít want to drive. (Obviously once you get a line) 2 months right now. They just released a ton of ppl. Iíve been told the 73 flying is 60% dc 30 Bwi 10 Dulles fwiw. Sitting short call from my couch has been great. Especially when they didnít called me for 23 days in a row.

redbaronahp
07-30-2018, 04:02 PM
We are practically neighbors. Iím a hour 45 from the parking lot in Philly. Wasnít going to commute to lax for 2 months to get Domestic DCA 73. Latest bid Iím 300 #s short of holding UDC 320. So Iíve changed my bid to also have the 73 to make sure Iím paid G2 while I wait out my 9-12 month lock next year. Moving up 34 numbers in aug on 190. Currently biding 80% and Iíve been on the line for 1 month. So happy w my decision, even tho the drive is $$. I get 14 mpg, and tolls are $14 one way. They cut the frequency of bee wii Philly flights in the am. However, there is a 1040 and 3 returns late afternoon if you donít want to drive. (Obviously once you get a line) 2 months right now. They just released a ton of ppl. Iíve been told the 73 flying is 60% dc 30 Bwi 10 Dulles fwiw. Sitting short call from my couch has been great. Especially when they didnít called me for 23 days in a row.

Wow, not called 23 days on reserve on the 190? Wow.

aa73
07-30-2018, 06:33 PM
I’m DCA 737 on SC reserve and only worked 7 days in July. (3 trips, 33hrs for the month)... life is great!

Dolphinflyer
07-30-2018, 07:37 PM
Ignore aa73, he just deleted his phone contact numbers because he knows he works for a huge corporation that will take 9 months of paperwork for then to figure out he's hanging with the Dali Lama in the Tibetan Highlands. :D (There's a Seinfeld episode like that)

On a serious note, it's a real tough call. Those of us old men in robes with the last of our teef left have been watching the giant frozen snowball of seat movement for 20 years have finally seen the thawing of seat movement and everything seems to be cracking and giving way.

Really a tough call with any advice at this point, I'd take any with a grain of salt.

Battlinbear21
07-31-2018, 03:09 AM
Wow, not called 23 days on reserve on the 190? Wow.

It was after completing OE so I was at the bottom of the list. July schedule synced w June and I know I got very lucky. But, if for some reason Iím not awarded a line in sept. Consolidation will be difficult at this point.

aa73
07-31-2018, 03:26 AM
Ignore aa73, he just deleted his phone contact numbers because he knows he works for a huge corporation that will take 9 months of paperwork for then to figure out he's hanging with the Dali Lama in the Tibetan Highlands. :D (There's a Seinfeld episode like that)

damn, the secret is out!

:D

Boogerface
07-31-2018, 05:00 AM
One of my friends who was hired in January took 737-LGA, and is already in DCA on the 737 holding a line, and it able to do almost all of his trips out of BWI. That's probably your best bet.

Aviatrx
07-31-2018, 05:28 AM
I would go 737 unless it looks like the class drop is taking you out West or you enjoy collecting type ratings. The 737 has been the quickest to DCA ~3-4 months from Indoc. Airbus ~1year.

Dash8Pilot
07-31-2018, 08:23 AM
Iím at DL, not AA, but thought Iíd throw my two cents in on this high quality problem.

If something is offered in class that lets you drive to work, take it. The music can stop at any time in this industry and being stuck with a two hour drive is way better than being stuck commuting by air to LGA or LAX.

If things keep moving and it turns out you could have gotten into DCA quickly, then your excellent seniority and schedule control can make you feel better about the extra two hours a week in your car.

TwinTandem
08-11-2018, 08:47 AM
Very curious: So does that mean regionals will take over that? Will the 737 come into there? I canít imagine AA no longer servicing there, but would they close the domiciles there?

BSOuthisplace
08-11-2018, 10:03 AM
DCA 737 is pretty junior right now. There were many new hires still in training awarded it on the last bid. DCA73 has more BWI trips than airbusUDC as well. You may not spend anytime doing an air commute if you bid the 737. I would try to get LGA 73 in Indoc and update your 3* ( bid) to DCA right away. Once youíre done OE you can also submit a mutual base exchange request through APA as well.

Slowmover
08-11-2018, 04:15 PM
DCA 737 is pretty junior right now. There were many new hires still in training awarded it on the last bid. DCA73 has more BWI trips than airbusUDC as well. You may not spend anytime doing an air commute if you bid the 737. I would try to get LGA 73 in Indoc and update your 3* ( bid) to DCA right away. Once youíre done OE you can also submit a mutual base exchange request through APA as well.

Data point: I started in April, am currently holding LGA/FO/737/D status, and transfer to DCA on 1 Oct. Once the dust settles, I'll be about #12 from the bottom there. Amazing.

Rawhide16
08-11-2018, 04:17 PM
E190 Retire in 2020
Very curious: So does that mean regionals will take over that? Will the 737 come into there? I canít imagine AA no longer servicing there, but would they close the domiciles there?

What exactly are you asking? If PHL is going away with the E190? If so, no. PHL is still a 320/330 base.

Cheddar
08-11-2018, 06:17 PM
Data point: I started in April, am currently holding LGA/FO/737/D status, and transfer to DCA on 1 Oct. Once the dust settles, I'll be about #12 from the bottom there. Amazing.



Hold on! The movement is just starting - as many have said before - bid what you want, you may be pleasantly surprised!


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TwinTandem
08-11-2018, 07:57 PM
What exactly are you asking? If PHL is going away with the E190? If so, no. PHL is still a 320/330 base.

Thanks didnít know that. Appreciate the insight.

Reverend
09-24-2018, 03:23 PM
Iíve been told the 73 flying is 60% dc 30 Bwi 10 Dulles fwiw.

How is the flying typically split up for the 320 between DCA/IAD/BWI?

QuagmireGiggity
09-25-2018, 07:06 AM
I would go for the bus anywhere and put in for east coast base immediately.. you'll be able to get at least LGA within one bid. It usually goes to new hires though. 737 sucks balls.
If you get a line you can try to drop trips and pick up in DC... but you have to have decent trips to get rid of them. (usually)
Probably a couple few months of short call then long call is commutable.
It really depends on your life situation.
Some things to consider:
Sitting short call ya pretty much have to be in a crash pad or close enough to drive in.
I've been stuck with 10 days in a row short call around Christmas.. what a pain in the #%%. Couldn't get home with one day off. If you have a family and have to commute somewhere to sit short call that's a huge problem.
PHL 190 guys get seniority fast and make more money year one. If you try probably a lot more. Also a better chance of having a summer vacation the next year and holidays /weekends off . Can't remember how that works for new hires but you have to accumulate some vacation time first so may depend on the month you get hired how much vacation time you have before bidding in the fall.
Going 190 though most likely means you're going to have to bid off of it and go back for another long term training event. That's quite an interruption in life.

EMBFlyer
09-25-2018, 02:16 PM
I would go for the bus anywhere and put in for east coast base immediately.. you'll be able to get at least LGA within one bid. It usually goes to new hires though. 737 sucks balls.

OR, if you find the 737 gives you better quality of life, bid the 737. I can't believe that people don't realize that it doesn't matter what airplane you're flying, it's all about QOL. Give up better seniority or not commuting for a *******ing table?! Give me a break.

Al Czervik
09-25-2018, 02:27 PM
OR, if you find the 737 gives you better quality of life, bid the 737. I can't believe that people don't realize that it doesn't matter what airplane you're flying, it's all about QOL. Give up better seniority or not commuting for a *******ing table?! Give me a break.

You spend 2-8 hours a day sitting in that seat, in that cockpit, using those systems. It does matter. 737 is not quality.

aa73
09-25-2018, 02:41 PM
You spend 2-8 hours a day sitting in that seat, in that cockpit, using those systems. It does matter. 737 is not quality.

Just curious Al, have you flown the 737NG or are you just making stuff up as you go along? You sound like a millennial. Ohh, that seat! Those systems! That cockpit! It’ll kill ya, watch out... No tray table? No FBW? What has this world come to?? No, can’t have that... I need an airplane that does everything for me. LOL...

I’ve been on the 737 for years... Flown tons of transcons and such, with plenty of 5hr legs. No problemo. I have absolutely zero issues with its excellent quality, and my QOL is top notch to boot. One of the best airplanes I’ve ever flown, a true pilot’s airplane and one dang fine Boeing.

Bid for QOL and being based at home, not the airplane. And despite what the naysayers here tell you... if you do get it, the 737 is a fine machine (most of them haven’t even flown it.)

Name User
09-25-2018, 03:15 PM
The S80 too has a tray table, is FBW, and has VNAV...and half the relative seniority...suck it Airbus!! :D

Pilot X
09-25-2018, 04:45 PM
OR, if you find the 737 gives you better quality of life, bid the 737. I can't believe that people don't realize that it doesn't matter what airplane you're flying, it's all about QOL. Give up better seniority or not commuting for a *******ing table?! Give me a break.

So for QOL are you still right seat 190 then? :D

Da Magic
09-25-2018, 06:57 PM
I would go for the bus anywhere and put in for east coast base immediately.. you'll be able to get at least LGA within one bid. It usually goes to new hires though. 737 sucks balls.
If you get a line you can try to drop trips and pick up in DC... but you have to have decent trips to get rid of them. (usually)
Probably a couple few months of short call then long call is commutable.
It really depends on your life situation.
Some things to consider:
Sitting short call ya pretty much have to be in a crash pad or close enough to drive in.
I've been stuck with 10 days in a row short call around Christmas.. what a pain in the #%%. Couldn't get home with one day off. If you have a family and have to commute somewhere to sit short call that's a huge problem.
PHL 190 guys get seniority fast and make more money year one. If you try probably a lot more. Also a better chance of having a summer vacation the next year and holidays /weekends off . Can't remember how that works for new hires but you have to accumulate some vacation time first so may depend on the month you get hired how much vacation time you have before bidding in the fall.
Going 190 though most likely means you're going to have to bid off of it and go back for another long term training event. That's quite an interruption in life.

Or get LGA/737 and bid 40% after a year. That equals summer vacation with the added bonus of not having to go thru another training cycle.

QuagmireGiggity
09-26-2018, 05:59 AM
If there was a huge difference between QOL on the 73 it may be worth it but nothing stays constant here. I'm within 3% 73 or 320 LAX and within 7% LGA. For the OP ... It's rare I flew with someone that actually liked that turd of an airplane. I truly hate it. 320 is a breath of fresh air. If you like it fine. That's your choice.

Or.. I could get angry and say..Hey you'll like what I like dammit! lol

QuagmireGiggity
09-26-2018, 06:35 AM
Or get LGA/737 and bid 40% after a year. That equals summer vacation with the added bonus of not having to go thru another training cycle.
Been here a few years and I'm barely more than 40% LGA D 737, 50% LGA I 737.

Al Czervik
09-26-2018, 08:18 AM
Just curious Al, have you flown the 737NG or are you just making stuff up as you go along? You sound like a millennial. Ohh, that seat! Those systems! That cockpit! Itíll kill ya, watch out... No tray table? No FBW? What has this world come to?? No, canít have that... I need an airplane that does everything for me. LOL...

Iíve been on the 737 for years... Flown tons of transcons and such, with plenty of 5hr legs. No problemo. I have absolutely zero issues with its excellent quality, and my QOL is top notch to boot. One of the best airplanes Iíve ever flown, a true pilotís airplane and one dang fine Boeing.

Bid for QOL and being based at home, not the airplane. And despite what the naysayers here tell you... if you do get it, the 737 is a fine machine (most of them havenít even flown it.)

Over a thousand hours on the 737. It sucks.

QuagmireGiggity
09-26-2018, 08:25 AM
OR, if you find the 737 gives you better quality of life, bid the 737. I can't believe that people don't realize that it doesn't matter what airplane you're flying, it's all about QOL. Give up better seniority or not commuting for a *******ing table?! Give me a break.
What QOL am I giving up?

aa73
09-26-2018, 10:39 AM
Over a thousand hours on the 737. It sucks.

Fair enough.

I have no doubt Iíll love the Bus if and when I go to it.

Guess I find the best in every airplane I fly.

DOGIII
09-26-2018, 11:15 AM
Over a thousand hours on the 737. It sucks.



It lets some people drive to work, so cannot categorically suck.

Al Czervik
09-26-2018, 11:26 AM
It lets some people drive to work, so cannot categorically suck.

Agreed. Driving to work is a whole new world.

EMBFlyer
09-26-2018, 02:55 PM
You spend 2-8 hours a day sitting in that seat, in that cockpit, using those systems. It does matter. 737 is not quality.

I routinely spend 8 hours days in it. Done quite a few transcons. Is it the Bus? No. Is it a little tight? Yeah. However, the -800 is a great flying jet. I love the way it handles. I've had pretty good luck on the landings (save from when I have to do a Flaps 40 in gusty winds). It's a very simple airplane, systems-wise. I enjoy it. Plus, being in nearly the top-third on it isn't a bad thing, either.

EMBFlyer
09-26-2018, 02:56 PM
So for QOL are you still right seat 190 then? :D

Never flew the 190...EVER. Last Embraer product I flew was the 145.

aa73
09-26-2018, 05:02 PM
I routinely spend 8 hours days in it. Done quite a few transcons. Is it the Bus? No. Is it a little tight? Yeah. However, the -800 is a great flying jet. I love the way it handles. I've had pretty good luck on the landings (save from when I have to do a Flaps 40 in gusty winds). It's a very simple airplane, systems-wise. I enjoy it. Plus, being in nearly the top-third on it isn't a bad thing, either.

Well said, and agree completely.

And sitting reserve being based at home doesnít hurt either!

EMBFlyer
09-26-2018, 06:20 PM
Well said, and agree completely.

And sitting reserve being based at home doesnít hurt either!

I'm hoping for that soon, but on another Boeing with Rolls Royce Trent engines.

Al Czervik
09-26-2018, 07:27 PM
I'm hoping for that soon, but on another Boeing with Rolls Royce Trent engines.

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA... Werenít you just saying bid the plane youíre senior in for QOL? ďBut the 777 will be better QOL.Ē ;)

EMBFlyer
09-27-2018, 07:00 AM
WHOA, WHOA, WHOA... Werenít you just saying bid the plane youíre senior in for QOL? ďBut the 777 will be better QOL.Ē ;)

Sitting at home on short call reserve, never flying and having to drive 20 minutes for bounces every three months. Yeah, I'm cool with that QOL.

Al Czervik
09-27-2018, 10:54 AM
Sitting at home on short call reserve, never flying and having to drive 20 minutes for bounces every three months. Yeah, I'm cool with that QOL.

Short call goes pretty senior!

Da Magic
09-27-2018, 07:58 PM
Been here a few years and I'm barely more than 40% LGA D 737, 50% LGA I 737.

4/17 hire. Left LGA D in June. Aapilots showed 47% in 4 part bid status. Sorry for rounding down.

Brillo
09-28-2018, 04:15 AM
4/17 hire. Left LGA D in June. Aapilots showed 47% in 4 part bid status. Sorry for rounding down.

I imagine you work through the bottom 50% or so at LGA fairly quickly as those are all the people trying to leave. Once you approach the top 40-50% or so, movement slows down some as those are the people who live near NYC or are staying for the long term for other reasons.

BSOuthisplace
09-28-2018, 05:31 AM
SC is senior in DC on the 73. The most junior get LC or Hybrid lines right now.

aa73
09-28-2018, 03:42 PM
SC is senior in DC on the 73. The most junior get LC or Hybrid lines right now.

Not on the CA side. I couldn’t even hold LC for Sept (4th from the bottom.) Straight SC solving in Layer None

It’s funny because in Boston guys my seniority can’t even touch reserve, they get lines by default.

WingAttackPlanR
10-04-2018, 07:31 AM
Regarding life on the 190, anyone able to post a typical trip. Assuming 3-4 day with lots of NE shuttle stuff?


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Rawhide16
10-04-2018, 03:12 PM
Regarding life on the 190, anyone able to post a typical trip. Assuming 3-4 day with lots of NE shuttle stuff?


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It depends on your seniority. Iíve been here since Nov and a typical trip for me is a 1-2-2-3 or 3-2-2-1 in legs per day. I get most weekends off and all of my trips are commutable to/from DTW on mainline flights meaning I can book the jumpseat 8 days out. I usually do four 4-days per month at about 21 hours each. I avoid the NE shuttle flying like the plague so most of my days consist of a IAH, MCI, JAX, or ATL overnight or turn with an occasional PVD, PWM, BTV overnight. Most overnights are 15-18 hours.

TankerDriver
10-04-2018, 03:51 PM
It depends on your seniority. Iíve been here since Nov and a typical trip for me is a 1-2-2-3 or 3-2-2-1 in legs per day. I get most weekends off and all of my trips are commutable to/from DTW on mainline flights meaning I can book the jumpseat 8 days out. I usually do four 4-days per month at about 21 hours each. I avoid the NE shuttle flying like the plague so most of my days consist of a IAH, MCI, JAX, or ATL overnight or turn with an occasional PVD, PWM, BTV overnight. Most overnights are 15-18 hours.

What about life for the in-base guys? Any out & back day turns if you do the shuttles?

Rawhide16
10-04-2018, 04:03 PM
What about life for the in-base guys? Any out & back day turns if you do the shuttles?

There used to be but the last month or so theyíve disappeared likely due to ACD implementation. The few that we have are mostly shuttle flying. IIRC, almost 90% of our flying for Oct are 4-day trips.

WingAttackPlanR
10-10-2018, 03:02 AM
There used to be but the last month or so theyíve disappeared likely due to ACD implementation. The few that we have are mostly shuttle flying. IIRC, almost 90% of our flying for Oct are 4-day trips.



How is life for LC and SC on the 190? If I could sit either at home (90 min away) that would be a sweet deal. Rawhide16 - thx for the info so far


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Rawhide16
10-10-2018, 03:07 AM
How is life for LC and SC on the 190? If I could sit either at home (90 min away) that would be a sweet deal. Rawhide16 - thx for the info so far


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SC doesnít have a minimum report time. The only requirement is a reasonable time via ground transportation. However, the unwritten rule is 3 hours so youíd be perfectly fine living 90 mins away. LC is a 12 hour minimum callout though you typically get more than that. Living 90 mins from base is huge and will make for a great QOL.