Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : New Hire Training Pay?


Kilroy
08-01-2018, 04:52 AM
With the new contract what will the new hire training pay be? At frontier itís 39.11 per hour paid at 75 hours( which is also first year pay)a month. Plus no hotel provided and you have to buy your own IPAD. They do however give you $600 Back for the IPAD.


capt707
08-01-2018, 05:11 AM
I didn’t see anything specific to new hire training pay, so I think it would fall under the regular training pay, which if training footprint is more than 15 days, you’ll get 80 hrs guarantee at base rate ($86.40/hr 1st yr pay) until completion of OE. They put new hires in ‘The Lodge’ (aka JB hotel). They hand out the iPads 2nd or 3rd day of training.

Kilroy
08-01-2018, 05:25 AM
I didnít see anything specific to new hire training pay, so I think it would fall under the regular training pay, which if training footprint is more than 15 days, youíll get 80 hrs guarantee at base rate ($86.40/hr 1st yr pay) until completion of OE. They put new hires in ĎThe Lodgeí (aka JB hotel). They hand out the iPads 2nd or 3rd day of training.

Thanks. So itís just a one time pay of 80 hours for the whole training through IOE or 80 hours per month while in training?


CanoeBum
08-01-2018, 05:53 AM
Thanks. So itís just a one time pay of 80 hours for the whole training through IOE or 80 hours per month while in training?

You may want to PM Hyperboy and ask this if you donít have a contact for the pool lifeguard. I wouldnít be surprised if the new hire pay hasnít changed since it wasnít explicitly stated in the CBA. Hopefully it has, let us know what you find.

GuppyPuppy
08-01-2018, 06:28 AM
Thought I read that 1st year pay starts after IOE.

GP

BeatNavy
08-01-2018, 06:36 AM
Thought I read that 1st year pay starts after IOE.

GP

It specifically says in 24.w.2 that a new hireís pay is effective after completion of his LOE. Thatís basically what it is now, and itís $2k a month, plus $26 a day use or lose in lodge bucks, plus hotel (aka blue dorms). So Iím guessing since it isnít codified in the CBA, the company can raise or lower newhire training pay at their whim.

hilltopflyer
08-01-2018, 06:40 AM
It specifically says in 24.w.2 that a new hireís pay is effective after completion of his LOE. Thatís basically what it is now, and itís $2k a month, plus $26 a day use or lose in lodge bucks, plus hotel (aka blue dorms). So Iím guessing since it isnít codified in the CBA, the company can raise or lower newhire training pay at their whim.
Thatís stupid if they want to attract people.

GuppyPuppy
08-01-2018, 06:51 AM
Thatís stupid if they want to attract people.

But they get to stay in the lodge for 6 weeks while being indoctrinated into the cult! Better than F9! And, unlike F9, iPads are free!

Who wouldn't want to come here?

Gup

GuppyPuppy
08-01-2018, 06:53 AM
It specifically says in 24.w.2 that a new hireís pay is effective after completion of his LOE. Thatís basically what it is now, and itís $2k a month, plus $26 a day use or lose in lodge bucks, plus hotel (aka blue dorms). So Iím guessing since it isnít codified in the CBA, the company can raise or lower newhire training pay at their whim.

LOE being the simulator. Ok, not IOE (25 hours in the plane).

Thanks.

Gup

BeatNavy
08-01-2018, 06:56 AM
Thatís stupid if they want to attract people.

Our slow growth and lack of retirements is the more concerning thing for people looking at this place as a career airline. A month and a half of abysmal pay doesnít affect a long term decision. And Deltaís pay is I think $4k a month with no hotel, and I think they may have to pay some or all for their uniform (or parts of it). Our NH pay situation isnít good, but housing, food, uniforms, and everything you need is taken care of, and I donít think itís that far behind everyone elseís when everything is added in. Also, I believe the company can change it at their discretion, so if we have trouble attracting people they can raise it. But even before the AIP we still had plenty of people filling classes. And even post AIP/TA/CBA, we have plenty of people on 1-3 year pay with apps out at legacies/SWA/FDX/UPS. So my belief is that training pay has little effect on attracting/retaining people. But I could be wrong.

Bluedriver
08-01-2018, 07:08 AM
Our slow growth and lack of retirements is the more concerning thing for people looking at this place as a career airline. A month and a half of abysmal pay doesnít affect a long term decision. And Deltaís pay is I think $4k a month with no hotel, and I think they may have to pay some or all for their uniform (or parts of it). Our NH pay situation isnít good, but housing, food, uniforms, and everything you need is taken care of, and I donít think itís that far behind everyone elseís when everything is added in. Also, I believe the company can change it at their discretion, so if we have trouble attracting people they can raise it. But even before the AIP we still had plenty of people filling classes. And even post AIP/TA/CBA, we have plenty of people on 1-3 year pay with apps out at legacies/SWA/FDX/UPS. So my belief is that training pay has little effect on attracting/retaining people. But I could be wrong.

Oh no! You said we were slow-growing, now we have to have an argument about what "slow" means.

Good thing you don't consider slow growth "career stagnation", APC nukes go off then...

😁

DWC CAP10 USAF
08-01-2018, 07:25 AM
And Deltaís pay is I think $4k a month with no hotel, and I think they may have to pay some or all for their uniform (or parts of it).

Delta training Pay is current $4700-4800íish (IIRC) and goes up to $5K starting Jan 2019.

We get paid hotel for the two weeks of Indoc, but we pay out of pocket during the 4 weeks of IQ. iPads issued free. We buy 100% of our uniforms, both initial purchase and replacement items down the road. No per diem except during our IOE trips. Training Pay ends and first year Pay starts day of your IOE check.

FSUpilot
08-01-2018, 07:35 AM
I didnít see anything specific to new hire training pay, so I think it would fall under the regular training pay, which if training footprint is more than 15 days, youíll get 80 hrs guarantee at base rate ($86.40/hr 1st yr pay) until completion of OE. They put new hires in ĎThe Lodgeí (aka JB hotel). They hand out the iPads 2nd or 3rd day of training.

I asked about this very thing just recently as I have the LOE this Friday. This isn't how that section is interpreted. Its only for transitions and upgrades unfortunately. But, new hires still get 70 hour guarantee after LOE up until completion of OE... then reserve guarantee of 75 hours after that.

10.5 inch iPad Pro's are being handed out now on Friday after orientation. Training is great here. Instructors are very helpful. Honestly, all the people I have met have been great, even the guys coming through for recurrent. I have enjoyed it all immensely, but Im ready to go home.

For those coming in: New hires go into the Lodge for 6 weeks... pay is 28 bucks and change per day. Pay days 8th and 20th of every month. Works out to 700ish a pay after taxes. The first paycheck depends on when you start in the pay period. Health insurance doesn't kick in until a month or so after you're on property. 26 bucks a day in Lodge Dollars for food and stuff. I didn't really spend a dime on anything while here, except for the bar. Shuttle will take you out within a certain range; I did do that several times to get the Blue out of my eyes :D. Positive space to and from training as well. 6 weeks total...

Bluedriver
08-01-2018, 07:40 AM
I asked about this very thing just recently as I have the LOE this Friday. This isn't how that section is interpreted. Its only for transitions and upgrades unfortunately. But, new hires still get 70 hour guarantee after LOE up until completion of OE... then reserve guarantee of 75 hours after that.

10.5 inch iPad Pro's are being handed out now on Friday after orientation. Training is great here. Instructors are very helpful. Honestly, all the people I have met have been great, even the guys coming through for recurrent. I have enjoyed it all immensely, but Im ready to go home.

For those coming in: New hires go into the Lodge for 6 weeks... pay is 28 bucks and change per day. Pay days 8th and 20th of every month. Works out to 700ish a pay after taxes. The first paycheck depends on when you start in the pay period. Health insurance doesn't kick in until a month or so after you're on property. 26 bucks a day in Lodge Dollars for food and stuff. I didn't really spend a dime on anything while here, except for the bar. Shuttle will take you out within a certain range; I did do that several times to get the Blue out of my eyes :D. Positive space to and from training as well. 6 weeks total...

So poverty wages up until completion of your final Sim?

FSUpilot
08-01-2018, 07:50 AM
So poverty wages up until completion of your final Sim?

yep :(......

GuppyPuppy
08-01-2018, 07:51 AM
Is anyone hired from here on out on probation for 1 year? No dues during probation?

Gup

FSUpilot
08-01-2018, 08:08 AM
Is anyone hired from here on out on probation for 1 year? No dues during probation?

Gup

After August 1... everyone goes on probation. Last few classes have squeaked by without it because of no CBA.

BeatNavy
08-01-2018, 08:08 AM
Delta training Pay is current $4700-4800íish (IIRC) and goes up to $5K starting Jan 2019.

We get paid hotel for the two weeks of Indoc, but we pay out of pocket during the 4 weeks of IQ. iPads issued free. We buy 100% of our uniforms, both initial purchase and replacement items down the road. No per diem except during our IOE trips. Training Pay ends and first year Pay starts day of your IOE check.

So letís assume a 6 week training footprint at each.

DL: $7500 pay - $2000 (assume $2k in hotels for 4 weeks), - ~$500 for uniforms, ~ food (letís assume 45 x $26 = $1170, the JB training per diem rate...I know it could be less in actuality, but for apples to apples purposes).

DL take home during 6 weeks of training: $3,830 (minus whatever is deducted).

JB: $2k a month, plus $26/day in food, and hotel included. All uniforms included.

JB take home: $3k (minus whatever is deducted).

Waiting for/during IOE we do a little better.
Waiting for and during IOE I believe DL guys make $167 a day ($5k/30) until IOE complete, then they make guarantee. JB guys make $215 a day (75 x $86/30) waiting for and during IOE. So thatís $48 a day more until completion of IOE. So itís basically a wash in the end.

Not saying our training pay is good by any means, but it certainly isnít at the bottom of our peers.

Donít ask about rates, PS, COLA, retirements, bases, network, and overall operation. Not much comparison.

PSU Flyer
08-01-2018, 07:30 PM
5.J.2 says you can elect to be in a hotel in lieu of the Lodge for training footprints longer than 21 days. That would seem to apply to newhires as well unless it says something different in another section. Thoughts?

SideFlare
08-01-2018, 07:46 PM
5.J.2 says you can elect to be in a hotel in lieu of the Lodge for training footprints longer than 21 days. That would seem to apply to newhires as well unless it says something different in another section. Thoughts?

For all the ill-will towards the lodge, itís a pretty convenient place to be for new hire training, especially if you can have your car. Blue Juice guzzling aside, I didnít mind it. That said, I had a vehicle and could escape when necessary.

hilltopflyer
08-01-2018, 07:49 PM
For all the ill-will towards the lodge, itís a pretty convenient place to be for new hire training, especially if you can have your car. Blue Juice guzzling aside, I didnít mind it. That said, I had a vehicle and could escape when necessary.

The lodge is good for recurrent. For new hire training or longer training stays it is a jail.

BeatNavy
08-02-2018, 01:13 AM
5.J.2 says you can elect to be in a hotel in lieu of the Lodge for training footprints longer than 21 days. That would seem to apply to newhires as well unless it says something different in another section. Thoughts?

The Lodge LOA from 9/28/17 was worded basically the same as our CBA, except it was 4 weeks, not 21 days, and newhires were not able to swap out of the lodge then, either. I think it comes down to definitions. 5.J.2 begins with ďA Pilot...Ē. Now go to page 24, and look at the definition of ďPilot.Ē Now page 21 and look at the definition of ďfirst officer.Ē Now go to 26 and look at the definition of ďStatus.Ē I read it as you have to be qualified on an aircraft type for the company to have your ďStatusĒ be a ďfirst officerĒ and/or ďpilot.Ē Until that point, you arenít considered a first officer, or pilot, for purposes of pay and the Lodge, and therefore 5.J.2 doesnít apply (nor does training pay under 4.A.3 for the same reason). You would be a new hire, not a pilot, by the definition of this CBA.

The way Pay Cutover 24.W.2 (pg 131) is written is basically the same. LOE is the line which delineates a ďStatusĒ change from ďnew hireĒ to ďfirst officer.Ē


Maybe Iím wrong. Itíd be nice if I was. But I think itís the same as it has been since this grievance was settled last year.

Papa Bear
08-02-2018, 04:33 AM
So letís assume a 6 week training footprint at each.

DL: $7500 pay - $2000 (assume $2k in hotels for 4 weeks), - ~$500 for uniforms, ~ food (letís assume 45 x $26 = $1170, the JB training per diem rate...I know it could be less in actuality, but for apples to apples purposes).

DL take home during 6 weeks of training: $3,830 (minus whatever is deducted).

JB: $2k a month, plus $26/day in food, and hotel included. All uniforms included.

JB take home: $3k (minus whatever is deducted).

Waiting for/during IOE we do a little better.
Waiting for and during IOE I believe DL guys make $167 a day ($5k/30) until IOE complete, then they make guarantee. JB guys make $215 a day (75 x $86/30) waiting for and during IOE. So thatís $48 a day more until completion of IOE. So itís basically a wash in the end.

Not saying our training pay is good by any means, but it certainly isnít at the bottom of our peers.

Donít ask about rates, PS, COLA, retirements, bases, network, and overall operation. Not much comparison.

Who cares ...Delta could pay me nothing...at all...during training. I will just make up for it when I upgrade. My buddy has been there three years. Already a MD80 captain and bought a new Maserati last month.
Iím still driving my pick up...

And you guys are talking uniform allowances ...JetBlue hires the right people.

pilotpayne
08-02-2018, 06:01 AM
Who cares ...Delta could pay me nothing...at all...during training. I will just make up for it when I upgrade. My buddy has been there three years. Already a MD80 captain and bought a new Maserati last month.
Iím still driving my pick up...

And you guys are talking uniform allowances ...JetBlue hires the right people.

JetBlue ďhires the right peopleĒ says the guy who just said he didnít need to get paid in training. Lol
Good luck over at Delta.

BeatNavy
08-02-2018, 09:46 AM
Who cares ...Delta could pay me nothing...at all...during training. I will just make up for it when I upgrade. My buddy has been there three years. Already a MD80 captain and bought a new Maserati last month.
Iím still driving my pick up...

And you guys are talking uniform allowances ...JetBlue hires the right people.

Did you read my last line? I chimed in because if people are going to advertise the bad/lacking things about this place (and the CBA), they need to be accurately advertising where we lack. Newhire pay isnít one of the areas that we are behind. Many other items we are, as Iíve stated. Good attempt to twist what I said and make it seem like I care about uniform allowances, though.

kevbo
08-02-2018, 10:13 AM
Thatís stupid if they want to attract people.

They know you would do it for free!

GearAlarm
08-02-2018, 10:57 AM
I've been to several initial training. They all feel like prison. That said, I much prefer the Lodge to a standard hotel. It is very comfortable. The food is good, gets old towards the end. But we did go out several times. It was great getting to know your fellow inmates before and after your sentence. Not to mention the convince of walking to class.



Need to get away. Take the shuttle or an Uber.

PSU Flyer
08-02-2018, 03:42 PM
The lodge is convenient. Thatís about all it has going for it. Itís great for recurrent, but not 6 weeks. Iíll give up that convenience for pretty much any of the following:

-Alcohol in my room
-Many different food options
-No cackling FA trainees
-No company cameras in the hotel
-Family allowed in my room
-Family/friends can spend the night
-Stove in my room
-Ability to save money by eating cheap
-Free food/drinks for happy hour
-Not surrounded by JB propaganda

Obviously personal preference, but having the choice to be in the Lodge or a hotel is ideal.

hilltopflyer
08-02-2018, 03:56 PM
The lodge is convenient. Thatís about all it has going for it. Itís great for recurrent, but not 6 weeks. Iíll give up that convenience for pretty much any of the following:

-Alcohol in my room
-Many different food options
-No cackling FA trainees
-No company cameras in the hotel
-Family allowed in my room
-Family/friends can spend the night
-Stove in my room
-Ability to save money by eating cheap
-Free food/drinks for happy hour
-Not surrounded by JB propaganda

Obviously personal preference, but having the choice to be in the Lodge or a hotel is ideal.

Pretty much exactly how I feel. When I go to my next training. I plan on my wife to come down and stay for awhile.

MasterOfPuppets
08-03-2018, 07:24 PM
Who cares ...Delta could pay me nothing...at all...during training. I will just make up for it when I upgrade. My buddy has been there three years. Already a MD80 captain and bought a new Maserati last month.
Iím still driving my pick up...

And you guys are talking uniform allowances ...JetBlue hires the right people.

Hope he paid cash because he may have just lost that CA seat.....:rolleyes:

capt707
08-04-2018, 05:25 AM
The Lodge is fine for recurrent, but not initial, and no, the food is not good at the Lodge. I saw one of the ďchefsĒ burn a grilled cheese sandwhich not once, but twice!

AYLflyer
08-04-2018, 08:41 AM
I really didn't mind the lodge one bit during initial. I didn't spend a dime on food unless we all went out for drinks at night off property.

I don't have to deal with the general public at all, who are shouting, dragging kids or just obnoxious to be around. The public areas are clean and well maintained. Pool isn't full of kids, the kitchen area isn't full of mouth breathers walking barefoot and smelling of who know's what. The rooms themselves are comfortable and well taken care off.

Walking to training is excellent. No more dealing with shuttle schedulues. Been through a few initials and it's always a pain in the ass having to coordinate how many people can fit in what shuttle, and if it's full you have to get up even earlier to get an earlier shuttle to the training center. That doesn't even exist at the lodge which is nice.

Also, every initial I've gone through where I've stayed at a hotel, a new hire (Either pilot or FA, always happens) has gotten caught doing something and reported to the company. The hotel management watches their own cameras and will report back to the airline any bad behavior by the pilots/FAs while staying there. Just because you might be at a Hilton, doesn't mean that JB, or any employer for that matter, isn't watching.

PSU Flyer
08-04-2018, 10:24 AM
Just to be clear, when people say things like ďI didnít spend a dime on food at the Lodge,Ē itís a little misleading. Prior to the Lodge, you paid for your own food, but you got an extra $500 to use for it. And the hotels were long stay hotels so you had a fridge, stove, microwave, and dishes. If you want to eat ramen every day and save $480 per month, you could. Otherwise, eat a few sandwiches one day and steak at Longhorn the next day and it is covered by your $500. By the way, the hotels have free breakfast most, if not all days. And the Lodge takes cash so you couldíve used your money there too (during the transition to the Lodge) so you didnít need to pack a lunch.

But, everyone has their own opinion so Iím happy to see the CBA give you the option. At least for non-newhires. Keep in mind, if youíre not a newhire, the money you spend at the Lodge will be cash out of your pocket (per diem) and not ďfreeĒ Lodge credit. Iíd rather spend my money elsewhere. As for the newhires, I hope the choice applies to them, but I doubt it does. Iím pretty sure your $780 in Lodge Bucks each month costs the company less than $500. Especially since itís use or lose.

captsurf
08-04-2018, 12:47 PM
Just to be clear, when people say things like ďI didnít spend a dime on food at the Lodge,Ē itís a little misleading. Prior to the Lodge, you paid for your own food, but you got an extra $500 to use for it. And the hotels were long stay hotels so you had a fridge, stove, microwave, and dishes. If you want to eat ramen every day and save $480 per month, you could. Otherwise, eat a few sandwiches one day and steak at Longhorn the next day and it is covered by your $500. By the way, the hotels have free breakfast most, if not all days. And the Lodge takes cash so you couldíve used your money there too (during the transition to the Lodge) so you didnít need to pack a lunch.

But, everyone has their own opinion so Iím happy to see the CBA give you the option. At least for non-newhires. Keep in mind, if youíre not a newhire, the money you spend at the Lodge will be cash out of your pocket (per diem) and not ďfreeĒ Lodge credit. Iíd rather spend my money elsewhere. As for the newhires, I hope the choice applies to them, but I doubt it does. Iím pretty sure your $780 in Lodge Bucks each month costs the company less than $500. Especially since itís use or lose.

This. Itís kind of a scam.

Not to mention, most training schedules have a 10-20 day break after Indoc depending on how many are in your class. If youíre one of the ones sent home, you donít get that meal money while youíre gone...

You only wind up benefiting from the new system if you eat all 3 meals at the lodge every day of training. I believe if you have the breakfast, lunch special, then dinner special, it will always add up to your daily allowance.

Oh, and get used to the chefs calling you ďPappi.Ē

TorukMacto
08-05-2018, 09:16 AM
Are there any chargers for electric vehicles at the Lodge?

symbian simian
08-05-2018, 10:51 AM
Are there any chargers for electric vehicles at the Lodge?

Make sure you ask that at your interview, right after you mention you love blue potatoes.......

TorukMacto
08-05-2018, 02:04 PM
Iím in the pool and plan to drive my Tesla to training if JB is the next to call. It would just be a lot easier if there were a charger on site.

Southerner
08-05-2018, 04:33 PM
Iím in the pool and plan to drive my Tesla to training if JB is the next to call. It would just be a lot easier if there were a charger on site.

There is a charger on the North side of the sim bay. Normally someone is plugged in during the day, but I'm sure you could use it.

TorukMacto
08-06-2018, 12:23 AM
That is great to hear, thanks.



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1